Nuestros Ranchos Site

I agree, John.  That's a beautiful name.  I might be biased, though, for my great grandfather's name was Aurelio.

Have you noticed that Aurelio is one of the few names that contains all of the vowels?  (a,e,i,o,u).  Another such name is Eulalio.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "John Gonzalez" 1gnzlz@v...> wrote:
>
> I have a sister named Aurelia! and also had an Aunt Aurelia. I believe it it is a Latin word that means "Golden" Aureliano should be proud to have a "Golden" name.
>
> John Gonzalez
> Wildomar, CA.
> 1gnzlz@v...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lareina2@i...
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:58 AM
> Subject: RE: Odd names WAS Re: [ranchos] Re: Godina Family
>
>
> How about my dad's name? Aureliano. Almost no one knows how to pronounce it, much less spell it. He was named after my grandpa.
>
> Rosalinda
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: glo Sandoval-Fuentes
> Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:06 AM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups

Joseph,

Right,  most of us have the tarugo gene I think.  The trick is not to let it get the best part of us all the time.  ;-)   Or what's worst let others "vernos la cara de pendejos."

Thanks a lot for the invitation to visit you in NC.  I really wish I could enjoy a good pachanga in  your company and other members of the group with a few fine cervezas,  menudo, pozole and the whole enchilada but that won't be possible this time.    Anyway, if you keep your invitation open and the damned border wall is not built too soon I'll keep dreaming of that day.  LOL

Just kidding.  And like another Spanish saying goes:  "Soñar no cuesta nada". 

Un abrazo muy fuerte

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>
> yeah I know, but still the diiiiistant possibility exists. small as it
> maybe. And do I really believe that I'm a Levite, pues no, what do you
> think I'm a tarugo? but still the tarugo in me wonders about stuff like
> this and I just know that there are a lot

yeah I know, but still the diiiiistant possibility exists. small as it
maybe. And do I really believe that I'm a Levite, pues no, what do you
think I'm a tarugo? but still the tarugo in me wonders about stuff like
this and I just know that there

Erlinda, my great-grandfather's first wife was Ma. Eleuteria Tov/bar from Jerez. Her brothers and sisters were born in both Tepetongo and Tla--don't remember how to spell this town. Her parents were Mauricio Tovar and Ma. Petra Escobedo. My great-grandfather had about 4 kids with her before she died and he married my great-grandmother, who was the age of his eldest daughter or a little older.



And yes, Davila is the same as de Avila. I read something about it this past week but don't ask me where, 'cos I dunno. The surname Correa is Portuguese, I believe. Marge:)

On Dec 21, 2005, at 6:18 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

I found in the records from Tamazula Jalisco back in the late 1600's

the scribe spelled Juan as Joan on many records.. that's a Portuguese

spelling. In Jerez I noticed my Tovar ancestor is spelled Thobar,

Thovar, Tobar and Tovar... all the same family. I would think that's a

Spanish pronunciation and spelling. Since our ancestors never saw the

records

There's no difference between the S and Z or X. Remember Xerex or
Xeres, Jerez and so on. People didn't know how to spell then and today
they still don't. We all make miztakex sumtimz. Marge:)

Linda,

This has to do with the popular belief that the advent of migratory
swallows mark the end of winter but that it is not enough to see just
a single astray swallow to think that the summer has arrived.

The translation is: "one swallow maketh not a summer"

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
 wrote:
>
> What does this mean? Una golondrina no hace verano." I've never heard 
> it before...
> Linda
>

What does this mean? Una golondrina no hace verano." I've never heard 
it before...
Linda

Joseph,

A 3 step mutation near match with someone from a different
geographical region and with a different surname is quite a loooong
distance.  As we say in Spanish:  "Una golondrina no hace verano."

This is most likely a case of haplotype convergence and not indicative
of a real genetic affinity.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
>
> no, I meant Ashkenazi. . .my spelling is not so good. I am not sure but 
> some of my y-DNA indications are Ashkenazi, the priests of the tribe of 
> Levi, a Levite. I don't know how much evidence there is for this but
its 
> interesting to wonder about:
> 
> Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data 	
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
> 	Cimet, Adina, 1951-
> Ashkenazi Jews in Mexico : ideologies in the structuring of a
> community / Adina Cimet.
> p. cm. -- (SUNY series in anthropology and Judaic studies)
> Includes bibliographical references and index.
> ISBN 0-7914-3179-7 (hardcover : acid-free). -- ISBN 0

Alberto,

There is a definitive Sephardic element among the early settlers of
Mexico in colonial times, but not as widespread as some would like you
to believe.  

Some Hispanic persons are carefully researching evidences or hints of
a possible Sephardic ancestry but many more are too eagerly and
hastily donning an ethnic label without sufficient
genealogical/historical or genetic proof to back their claims.

It is something similar to the ever popular reason for pursuing
genealogical research in many people: finding one's royal lineage
ancestors.  The allure of belonging to a special group is a potent
motivator and what's more special than being "chosen by God"?  The
question is are we in a search after factual truths or a fanciful and
embellished version of a glorious past?

Saludos Cordiales,
Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alberto Duarte  wrote:
>
> Regarding our Jewish cousins....
> Joseph, you mean Sephardic Jews.  I've seen a number
> of Sephardic

I found in the records from Tamazula Jalisco back in the late 1600's 
the scribe spelled Juan as Joan on many records.. that's a Portuguese 
spelling. In Jerez I noticed my Tovar ancestor is spelled Thobar, 
Thovar, Tobar and Tovar... all the same family. I would think that's a 
Spanish pronunciation and spelling. Since our ancestors never saw the 
records and sometimes were not even the person giving the information 
it's amazing that so many are traceable and correct! In Jerez I find 
the surname Correa, in Tamazula it's Coria, I'm wondering if it's the 
same family name? Is Davila the same as De Avila? The ancestors must 
get a chuckle from our searches and questions.
Linda in Everett

Joseph,

Alberto is correct about the Portuguese version of some surnames
ending in "s" versus the Castillian version ending in "z".

Of course finding a Gonzales among your ancestors does not necessarily
mean that you had a Portuguese origin relative but rather that the
priest doing the recording was using a particular grammar convention.

The idea of "z" ending surnames as being of Jewish origin is being
propagated by a group called "Los Mesiánicos", but is totally
baseless.  It is a theory that you should write down on your list of
lunatic fringe theories.

By the way, could you explain what you mean about you belonging to the
priestly tribe of Levi?  I remember you mentioned being R1b...

Feliz Navidad!!!

Victor Hugo Villarreal Villagrana
Reynosa, México.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
>
> 
> This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask but kind of 
> forget every time I get to the key board. I guess its time (been time) 
> for me to

Regarding our Jewish cousins....
Joseph, you mean Sephardic Jews.  I've seen a number
of Sephardic genealogy websites, most of them
sponsored by people like us that have found their
Jewish roots.  I found a number of early Spanish and
Portuguese Sephardic Jews in early Mexico that had the
last name Duarte, but I've yet to make a connection
with anyone of them.  But I would not be surprised to
find out that some of my ancestors were Sephardic
Jews. 

Also, I've known Spanish Jews here in the United
States and I have found them to be a very intelligent,
friendly and handsome group of people.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California 


--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> 
> This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to
> ask but kind of 
> forget every time I get to the key board. I guess
> its time (been time) 
> for me to start writing myself notes so i'll
> remember later [here's a 
> confession---I've been writing myself notes but half
> the time I forget 
> to look at

Interesting question...  
I use to believe the difference in spelling the names
like Gonzalez/Gonzales, Lopez/Lopes,
Martinez/Martines/ etc., was that the letter "z" was
used by the Spanish and the letter "s" was used by the
Portuguese. 

But later I found out this was not true because many
of the old Spanish/Mexican church records I found used
both the letter "z" or the letter "s", depending on
the priest doing the writing.  I believe many of our
ancestors didn't know how to read-or-write so it was
up to the priest to spell and write their names.  For
instance, my great---grandmother's last name was
spelled "Tovar" and sometimes was spelled "Tobar". 
Which one is correct? To me they're both correct.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> 
> This reminds me of a question I've been meaning to
> ask but kind of 
> forget every time I get to the key board. I guess
> its time (been time) 
> for me to start writing myself notes so i'll
>

Saludos to everyone:

I haven't written messages for a while, but, anyways, here's my 
contribution to this discussion.

My paternal grandfather's name is a very special case in my family. 
He was baptized Jose Adolfo Apodaca Ramirez (Adolfo Apodaca, a 
secas). Twenty-some years later, when he got married, he was 
described as Ranulfo Apodaca (and he signed his name like that, 
too). For the rest of his life, he was known to everyone as Arnulfo 
Apodaca. This is the name that appears on his death certificate. His 
real name (Adolfo) was never used by the family, and was eventually 
replaced by "Arnulfo". In fact, an uncle, one of my brothers, and 
some distant cousin I don't even know, all were given my grandpa's 
fake name.

Don't you think that Adolfo sounded much better than Arnulfo? Still, 
it seems that my grandfather preferred the "ugly" name.

My family tree is packed with names that are a little bit odd by 
today's standards. An example is my maternal grandmother. Her name 
is

Hey, there is nothing wrong with our old Spanish
names.  My great-----grandaunt's name was Maria
Guadalupe Leogarda De La Cruz Pena Morales, 1797,
Valle De Allende, Chihuahua,Mexico. 

They were long but beautiful.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Alicia Carrillo  wrote:

> Marge and Emilie,
>    
>   Alicia must be a very new name because in all my
> research I have not once found this name either in
> my ancestors or any other records. I guess we are
> modern women hence the new variant of a name. I
> guess that's also why I am not saintly, no
> precedents in my namesake.
>    
>   Alicia, a saint in waiting or in the
> making............hope is everlasting, (sigh, sigh).
> 
> Margarita Vallazza  wrote:
>   That's what I thought, too, Em! BTW, my middle
> name is Alicia...my 
> folks said it was after a family friend but I don't
> remember ever 
> meeting her. My first name is after my Scots
> mother's sister but in 
> Spanish. I've

My mother in law, who was from Ecuador, had a middle name that was
Torribia (how terrible for her:))That was her mother's middle name.
She had a sister named Zoraida and another sister named Rosenda (not
too bad but still). Marge:)

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That's what I thought, too, Em! BTW, my middle name is Alicia...my
folks said it was after a family friend but I don't remember ever
meeting her. My first name is after my Scots mother's sister but in
Spanish. I've since discovered that my aunt was named after her
grandmother, who was named after her own grandmother. Had I known that
I would have
named one of my own daughters a variant of it. Marge, who
is Shinju in Japanese.:)

On Dec 21, 2005, at 5:19 AM, Emilie Garcia wrote:

> Well, Alicia, I have a sister, my only sibling, who is named Alicia
> Emma.  I will have