Juan v. Juan Jose v. Jose Francisco
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Altos de Jalisco
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Don't feel left out. My wife is from Los Altos and never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me. Alberto Duarte Santa Maria, California --- latina1955@... wrote: > Hi, > > My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz, > Madrigal, Duarte. I have > started doing some research, but have not taken the > serious time yet. There are > many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not > related (but I think people > just forget). The Ortiz name, as you might be aware > is not as common in > Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the > Rocha name is connected to > families from Los Altos area. The Duarte's were > supposedly one of the first to > settle his small town - however when I went to the > local church to get historical > data, it does not mention one single Duarte! > > Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my > posting had not gone > through.... > > Esperanza - Chicago area > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo!
Tamales de Zarzamora
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face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> I have been eating tamales dulces with strawberries all my life (also raisins are sometimes added, sometimes canella). I know that the western part of Michoacan has many strawberry fields (my husband's family has worked in them). Esperanza (Chicago area)
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Altos de Jalisco
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face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> Hi, My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz, Madrigal, Duarte. I have started doing some research, but have not taken the serious time yet. There are many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not related (but I think people just forget). The Ortiz name, as you might be aware is not as common in Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the Rocha name is connected to families from Los Altos area. The Duarte's were supposedly one of the first to settle his small town - however when I went to the local church to get historical data, it does not mention one single Duarte! Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my posting had not gone through.... Esperanza - Chicago area
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Rancho
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I don't think so. My husband and his mother were from Ecuador, SA and they never use that term.
Marge
On Jul 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
Does anyone know if "Rancho" is a term used in the same context as we use it in Mexico in other Spanish speaking countries?. . .I'm mostly interested in if Central and South Americans call their small communities Ranchos?
thanks,
joseph
Rougemont, NC
makas@...
John Gonzalez wrote:
Gracias Alicia:
Rancho is only one of many words in Spanish that have been "borrowed" or adopted by the English language. Here are a few more: Barbeque=Barbacoa, Lariat= La reata, Lasso= Lazo, Buckaroo= Vaquero, Mustang= Mosteño. these are just a few that come to mind...Iam sure there are a lot more.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
1gnzlz@...
----- Original Message -----
Rancho
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Does anyone know if "Rancho" is a term used in the same context as we
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Rancho
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Gracias Alicia:
Rancho is only one of many words in Spanish that
have been "borrowed" or adopted by the English language. Here are a few more: Barbeque=Barbacoa, Lariat= La reata, Lasso= Lazo, Buckaroo= Vaquero, Mustang= Mosteño. these are just a few that come to mind...Iam sure there are a lot more. John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
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Pachuco
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Janet,
I am a little late too on this discussion about "Pachucos". I had heard that they were called "pachucos" because in an area of Mexico called Pachuca, the natives there wore their pants tightly pegged at the bottom to prevent scorpions from climbing up their legs into their clothes (eek!). I also heard that the "zoot suits" developed from the costume worn by Clark Gable in "Gone with the Wind" in 1939. The costume had a long fitted jacket with wide lapels, the pants were slightly narrow at the bottom but full in the hip (for riding?), and men of the Civil War era in the South often wore gold watches attached by long chains which hung from a vest to a pants pocket, and they topped this outfit off with a wide brimmed "planter's hat". A Negro band-leader named Cab Calloway in the 1930's started to have suits made in imitation of the costume worn by Clark Gable, and his music (swing music) and "jitterbug" style and slang expressions became popular with young Mexican
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Tamales de Zarzamora
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Steven, how interesting! My mother, who was a native of New Mexico, used to make "tamales de dulce" but she would only use sugar and raisins, no pineapples. She learned to make tamales from her family's Mexican cooks. Also, she had told me that she had seen dessert tamales that she thought were tinted with food coloring since they were pastel pink or green. Her family really didn't know how to cook Mexican food---for special occasions (weddings, etc.) they would hire cooks or caterers from across the border (probably Juarez). Her cooking was more like food found in the American South, bisquits, stews, beans served whole, not mashed, home-made bread (influenced by the Anglos who moved there after the Civil War). When we moved to California, she was exposed to different Mexican food and learned to make meatball soup and a pork stew made with pork shoulder instead of "tripa", since I refused to eat "menudo" because of the "tripa". She would also make enchiladas flat like stacks of
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Racial Classifications
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Steven,
Thank you so much for the explanation of terms (Hidalgo class), titles (Don and Dona) and circumstances (expuesto en la casa de") I've seen described in records or on this site.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
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Altos de Jalisco
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-----Original Message-----
From: latina1955@...
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:28:57 EDT
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco
Is Altos de Jalisco an area?
Yes. It is a historically unique region. Read Jim Tuck's "The Holy War in Los Altos" about the Cristero Rebellion. Very good book.
Is it in the northeastern part of the state?
Yes.
I am beginning to see a connection between people from the western part of Michoacan (Tangancicuaro), as weel as areas in Zacatecas.
Many people from southern Los Altos, and the Ocotlan and La Barca region north of Lake Chapala, have connections with the Tangancicuaro area, which also includes Zamora, Chilchota, Sahuayo, Ixtlan, and Jacona.
By the way, my husband is from the municipality area of Tangancicuaro
What surnames does he have from there? A genealogist cousin of mine, Tony Campos, has been doing research there for more than 30 years?
- what surprised me about this beautiful area is how "green"
Tamales de Zarzamora
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Over ten years ago when I accompanied my uncle (my dad's first cousin Arturo Hernandez Lozano) to Michoacan, we made a short pit stop in Zacapu, Mich. While at a roadside tamalera, we noticed two women speaking in a strange language we later discovered was Purhechepa (or as they said Tarasco). But we bought several smaller than normal tamales. When I opened them I was shocked because they were pink. I gave my uncle a weird look and asked him, "!Que es esto!" He just told me, "Nomas pruebalo." Well being very open minded about food and eating, one of my favorite activities, I was pleasantly surprised at how delicious they truly were. They were sweet and tasted like strawberries. Different than my mom's world famous "tamales de dulce" which she makes with sugar, pineapple, and raisins. Oh, delicious memories of Christmas.
Mi Tio Arturo told me they were called "tamales de Zarzamora" which are a wild variety of raspberries or blackberries. I'm guessing they were more like
Racial Classifications
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-----Original Message-----
From: Emilia
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:48:28 -0000
Subject: [ranchos] Racial Classifications
I just found an answer as to why, when my husband and I have roots in Mexico going back to the early 1700's, he and I look so different. In message #277 Steven Francisco Hernandez Lopez says "most people will eiher have a lot of Inidan, Mestizo, or Mulato line, or very little to one at all---all the surnames and families that I have so far posted----were of the Spanish Hidalgo class". I recall some of these names being in my husband's family, and his aunt in Mexico City told me that his family on both sides, had never mixed with Indians. To furter quote Steven: "Intermarriage was very uncommon---to do so would be to kill all chances of opportunity for your children and descendants for all time".
Plus there was, overall, a social stigma attached to racially mixed relationships and their offspring.
My husband
DNA discussion
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Dear Ranchos,
I guess I am very late to the party and the discussion on DNA. I hardly check this email's mailbox anymore. But in checking my messages this one caught my eye, because Maria Elena Sanchez de Cortez is my proven cousin. Both of our genealogy comes from Los Altos de Jalisco. Her paternal surname is Sanchez, which back in the olden days was denoted as Sanchez de Porras, a name which is quite extensive in northern Los Altos, but in particular in Cuquio, Ixtlahuacan del Rio, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalostotitlan, and other nearby towns. Suffice it to say that I also have the surname Sanchez de Porras, which is the surname that Maria's family now bears.
She mentions that her brother's chromosome haplogroup is R1b. Well since it's also one of mine, I decided to research it some more and this is what I found. Enjoy.
Regards,
Steven F. Hernandez Lopez Hernandez Contreras.....y Sanchez de Porras, etc, etc......
Pachuco
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A sad note in our history..... I was just a youngster at that time, living near 1st street and Boyle Heights, near downtown Los Angeles and remember the pachucos, most of them were 1st and 2nd generation Mexican-Americans. We were literately 2nd class citizens and were treated worst than most other ethic groups; when even while our fathers, uncles, cousins, friends, were dying in the battle fields of Europe and Asia defending the same people that hated us! It was only my Christan faith that saved me. I knew that God would eventually punish those that mistreated us. Alberto. --- janet iglesiaswrote: --------------------------------- I know I'm a little bit late to jump into this conversation but there is a great example of what Esperanza is stating in the movie "American Me" with Edward James Olmos. Great movie on how gangs influence Los Angeles. ~Janet Iglesias, San Diego CA >From: latina1955@... >Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com >To: ranchos
Rancho
Forums
Thanks John for this great explanation and put in such beautiful language.
Alicia Avelar de Carrillo
San Jose, CA
lrapido 1gnzlz@...> wrote:
lrapido 1gnzlz@...> wrote:
Rancho:
Un rancho es un asentamiento o lugar donde se establece una persona o
una comunidad.
Rancho: es un lugar fuera de una poblacion donde se albergan varias
personas.
Rancho: Granja donde se crian caballos, vacas y otros animales
domesticos.
Hay ranchos dedicados a la Agricultura y otros a la Ganaderia.
I hope this helps.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
S.W. Riverside County
Pachuco
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I know I'm a little bit late to jump into this conversation but there is a great example of what Esperanza is stating in the movie "American Me" with Edward James Olmos. Great movie on how gangs influence Los Angeles.
~Janet Iglesias, San Diego CA
>From: latina1955@...
>Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
>To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ranchos] Pachuco
>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:32:50 EDT
>
>I recently saw a documentary on Pachuco's. It indicated that it first
>appeared around the 2nd world war in California, simply as a style statement worn
>by many Mexican-Americans. Apparently, there was a confrontation between a
>group of pachuco's and naval men - all started because the naval men were
>interested in their women. This incident started a retaliation from the naval
>men, who would come into the neighborhoods and beat the pachuco's up. This, in
>turn, gave the pachuco's a bad reputation, as the press just focused on their
>behavior, and of course they were the ones that were arrested.
[Fwd: World War I Registration cards]
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for those of you having trouble with the origins of some of your
Just got this World War I link,
free for a few days. Just printed off my great uncles registration card. Kitty
WW I registration cards: http:/ |
Pachuco
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I recently saw a documentary on Pachuco's. It indicated that it first
appeared around the 2nd world war in California, simply as a style statement worn by many Mexican-Americans. Apparently, there was a confrontation between a group of pachuco's and naval men - all started because the naval men were interested in their women. This incident started a retaliation from the naval men, who would come into the neighborhoods and beat the pachuco's up. This, in turn, gave the pachuco's a bad reputation, as the press just focused on their behavior, and of course they were the ones that were arrested. The confrontations continued until the President of the US ordered that the men were not to come off the ships. The tally of those hurt were much more enormous towards the pachucos - something like 100 to 3. It is my understanding that after this, there was a movement for the "gangs" to identify with the pachuco's - hence their later reputation. Esperanza
Chicago area
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La Catrina
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Joseph, My answer to you comes from my own observations and experiences. I've never seen any scholarly research work on "pachuquismo". I don't want to sound as though I somehow know everything about the subject. My answere to your questions is "yes". Gangs existed before the pachuco style of dress became popular. I saw the gangsters adopt the pachuco style of dress. I also saw many young people, non-criminal, non-gangster, imitate the style of dress. The non-gangster pachuco was accepting of any and all who wanted to "join" the "movement". I saw anglos, african-americans and others accepted as gangsters. The depiction of this in Luis Valdez' movie, "Zoot Suit", matches my recollections. As a pre-teen and teen-ager I thought it was cool to peg my baggy pants. There is a way to fold and roll up the pant leg so that it looks custom-made (from a distance). Some people in the forties and fifties accepted the pachuco style just as many young people today seem to think that the
Catolicos
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If anyone is into "Podcasting" more so from the listening standpoint
here is something of interest for those interested in an insiders view
of things at the vatican:
http://www.catholicinsider.com/ joseph ps: down load one or two shows to your computer and have a listen.
La Catrina
Forums
David P. Delgado wrote:
Emilie, As I remember, Posada created a caricature of the overdressed upper class types in 19th Century Mexico. El Catrin = "dandy" and la Catrina is the feminine form of the word. La Catrina was a person but a generic stereotype. Posada did not intend the caricature to be a complimentary one.The only other people I heard use the word "catrin" were the pachucos in the late 1940's and the early '50's. They used it to describe someone who was dressed up and looked "sharp". I grew up in Southern Cal and saw many pachucos including family members.
man did the pachucos dress sharp!!! My uncle was one and I can remember
his cool threads. I was young and never understood but did the pachucos
hang together as gangs? Or were they all individuals? Did the "pachuco
movement" ever cross the border? Are there gangs in Mexico now. . .as in
the types of gangs we see in US now?
curious minds need to know, joseph
David in Albany, CA -----Original Message--
La Catrina
Forums
Emilie, As I remember, Posada created a caricature of the overdressed upper class types in 19th Century Mexico. El Catrin = "dandy" and la Catrina is the feminine form of the word. La Catrina was a person but a generic stereotype. Posada did not intend the caricature to be a complimentary one.The only other people I heard use the word "catrin" were the pachucos in the late 1940's and the early '50's. They used it to describe someone who was dressed up and looked "sharp". I grew up in Southern Cal and saw many pachucos including family members. David in Albany, CA -----Original Message----- From: "Steve G. Apodaca"Sent: Jul 5, 2005 4:12 PM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ranchos] La Catrina Here is a link to the picture of La Catrina
http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG">http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG
There are several of Posada's drawings in the following page. Just
Dia de Los Muertos
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Thanks to all who have contributed their rememberances and musings regarding El Dia De Los Muertos.
I didn't know anything about this tradition in Mexico until about 15 years ago. I was asked about it in church. I have been a teacher/catechist/volunteer in our Catholic parish for many years while teaching adults and children. The Director of Religious Education asked me about Mexico's celebration of this religious feast day. I then asked my mom who said it's not something she really knew anything about. We are from southern Zacatecas and they did not have such a tradition. Just as they do in most Catholic parishes they did celebrate All Saints Day on November 2nd, end of conversation.
There was a time when I thought I could possibly begin this practice in my family because it sounded like a good way to honor those who have gone before us but I decided against it. I just didn't think I could do it justice as it's not been part of my family's history and tradition and I didn't know
La Catrina
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Here is a link to the picture of La Catrina http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG There are several of Posada's drawings in the following page. Just scroll down to "Calaveras" http://muertos.palomar.edu/posdad.htm Steve. OC,CA --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"wrote: > Ok, now, who is La Catrina? Even my husband, who was more into the culture until the age of 12 in El Paso, doesn't know either. > > Emilie Garcia > Port Orchard, WA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Natalie > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 4:38 AM > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ranchos] Dia de los Muertos > > I don't remember "celebrating" this holiday as a youngster (in the > 40's & 50's), either. And it is only in the last 10-15 yrs that I > have been exposed to this custom. > In the past two years the Smithsonian has had public programs for > DDLM, (one day affairs) with music (strolling mariachi), dance, > displays, and crafts. > The