Nuestros Ranchos Site

Angie:

We are most definitely related.  Joseph Cayetano Grano's daughter 
Rita Margarita married Pedro Gonzalez.  I am their eighth generation 
descendant via my father's paternal line.  I will definitely take a 
look at your file.  I have Covarrubias and Jara interwoven throughout 
my genealogy so I am sure there is a connection there as well.

Do you know how I would go about getting copies of the books you 
mention?  We can continue this discussion outside the group if you 
like... arturo.ramos2@...

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073"  wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Welcome to the group.  I noticed that you descend from Eusebia 
> Grano.  She was sister to my 5th Great-Grandmother Maria Josepha 
> Grano Covarrubias.  Take a look at my files in the file section.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%
> 3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/
> 
> There is a book that contains the genealogy of the Grano family.  
It 
> is called the "El Sacerdoncio

Thanks for the info.  I guess I'm one of the babies of the group at 36??  I've also been lucky enough to have a civil service job with a great union who has cemented great benefits for the next five years.  I feel spoiled when I hear the stories about people's health care issues.  It's a total shame that all people don't have good insurance and benefits!!

I did want to say, though, that for the record I always enjoy reading everyone's post.  I've been so educated by each and everyone of your messages.  I feel like I lack the family experiences, though, since myself as well as my parents were born here.  I envy the members who have gotten to travel to their ancestral homelands.  I want to do the same but I don't have a lot of free time.  And I was never taught spanish and would like to take a class.  Is there any online programs, software (I feel like such a dork!) that teach spanish?  I understand the basics from high school spanish classes, but I want to learn more.  How does one go

Dear Members:
I would like to share the following with our members
since I believe most of us are about the same age
range, like me, a youthful med 60s, and are probably
purchasing expensive prescription drugs. 

My wife just got back from the doctor and was given a
free prescription pill for her illness that would
normally cost me $50.00 each.  She will eventually
need to take the same pill, once a month, that will
cost me $200.00 for 4 pills.  Yes, $200.00 for 4
pills.

Anyway, this morning I found a number of pharmacies in
Canada that sell the same pills

Dear Members:
I would like to share the following with our members
since I believe most of us are about the same age
range, like me, a youthful med 60s, and are probably
purchasing expensive prescription drugs.  

My wife just got back from the doctor and was given a
free prescription pill for her illness that would
normally cost me $50.00 each.  She will eventually
need to take the same pill, once a month, that will
cost me $200.00 for 4 pills.  Yes, $200.00 for 4
pills.

Anyway, this morning I found a number of pharmacies in
Canada that sell the same pills, same weight, and I
believe from the same company that makes the pills. 
The same pill in Canada will now cost me $9.58 each,
or a total cost for 4 pills at $53.31, and that
includes shipping cost.  

You can log on www.pharmacychecker.com to see
comparative costs of drugs from the various pharmacies
throughout Canada.

Good luck.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, Caifornia

--- Margarita Vallazza  wrote:

> She's

Hello!

Welcome to the group.  I noticed that you descend from Eusebia 
Grano.  She was sister to my 5th Great-Grandmother Maria Josepha 
Grano Covarrubias.  Take a look at my files in the file section.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%
3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/

There is a book that contains the genealogy of the Grano family.  It 
is called the "El Sacerdoncio Ministerial, Singular Don a la 
Parroquia de Totatiche, Jalisco" by Esteban Valdes Salazar.  It is a 
small book less than 200 pages.  It starts with Joseph Cayetano Grano 
and his wife Efigenia de la Rosa Covarrubias.  Then it goes on to 
each of his seven daughters including their descendants.  Eusebia 
Grano was one of his daughters.  There is about 50 pages on her 
descendants.  There are a couple of other people in this group who 
are related to the Grano family.

There is a another book on the Jara family of Totatiche.  Descendants 
of Joseph Fernandez De Jara and Catarina Covarrubias, who

I just ran across this individual record in the LDS VRI-Mexico database... the 
fact that the wife has the same last name as the husband is not particularly 
interesting.... what is more interesting is that the wife's parents both have in 
effect the same name.

I remember reading somewhere that when indigenous people married into or 
were hired into a family they were "assigned" the name of the family they were 
associated with for lack of a better alternative.  Does anyone know anything 
more concrete on this that can shed any light?

Individual Record	FamilySearch? Vital Records Index
Mexico
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
	
Natividad GONSALEZ	      Age At Marriage: 18 
 	Sex: 	 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):	 	 
Birth: 1842>	Place: Urives
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:	 	 
 	Father: Crecencio GONSALEZ
 	Mother: Crecencia GONSALEZ
---

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/makas_nc/lst?.dir=/Genealogies/Arturo+Ramos+(arturo.ramos2@...)&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/

hmmm, this sure is a long URL. . .if it doesn't work maybe its because
part of the URL wrapped to the next line. In this case you'll need to
copy and paste the tail end of the URL onto the part that didn't wrap
and try again.

or you can go here and just follow the path to Arturo Ramos' work:

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/makas_nc/lst?.dir=/Genealogies&.src=bc&.view=l&BCID=makas_nc

joseph

ps: this link and all new members' genealogies are found in the Links
area under "AAAAA-Genealogies"

Yes, I believe all the Tovars in Jerez were related,
just like the Duartes.  We'll have to meet in Jerez
and go to the old cemeteries so that we can research
our old family names.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza  wrote:

> She's probably related to my great-grandfather's
> first wife, Eleuteria 
> Tovar.:)  Marge:)
> On Jul 9, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> > You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
> >  Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her
> name
> >  written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria
> >  Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria
> >  Vasquez Tobar.
> >
> >  Alberto.
> >  Santa Maria, California
> >
> 



		
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items.  
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An Observation and Sad Note:
I believe it was not unusual for a son not to have the
same last names of his mother and father.  He
sometimes would take a different last name altogether
(probably because he was baptized with a different
name). 

I found a Spanish soldier from Jerez de la Frontera,
in 1575, that may have been a relative, that took the
last name of Andres Duarte and his mother was a
Rodriguez and has father was a Gonzalez!  This soldier
came to Zacatecas in 1576.  After searching for him
for more than 10 years, I found a record where he had
drowned in the Philippines sea in 1603 during a storm
on his way back to new Spain (Mexico).

Alberto Duarte

Santa Maria, California
--- Erlinda Castanon-Long 
wrote:

> I was once told that many of the early scribes in
> Mexico were Portuquese and that they spelled things
> differently too. If many of the people did not read
> or write and didn't see what was being put into the
> record any chance for correction wasn

Thank you.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- zendean  wrote:

> Alberto;  Thank you for your various replies to my
> postings over the months 
> past. This is a site filled with good people. You
> are one.
> 
> I live in Whittier,  California
> 
> Again, thank you,
> 
> Jose Luis Macias
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alberto Duarte" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco
> 
> 
> > Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos
> and
> > never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met
> me.
> >
> > Alberto Duarte
> > Santa Maria, California
> >
> > --- latina1955@... wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
> >> Madrigal, Duarte.  I have
> >> started doing some research, but have not taken
> the
> >> serious time yet.   There are
> >> many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
> >> related (but I think  people
>

Alberto; Thank you for your various replies to my postings over the months
past. This is a site filled with good people. You are one.

I live in Whittier,  California

Again, thank you,

Jose Luis Macias

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alberto Duarte"

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco

Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos and
never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- latina1955@... wrote:

Hi,

My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
Madrigal, Duarte.  I have
started doing some research, but have not taken the
serious time yet.   There are
many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
related (but I think  people
just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be aware
is not as  common in
Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
Rocha name is  connected to
families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's

I have just joined the Rancho group.  I am currently a resident of 
Washington, DC, originally from San Gabriel, California.  I am in the 
process of compiling a family history.  Central to this task is a 
genealogical database.  I have already compiled a genealogy going 
back as far as the mid 1700s in Totatiche, Jalisco for some of my 
lineages.

Thus far I have used oral histories and Church of Latter Day Saints 
resources (based on church records in Totatiche) but I have now begun 
collecting written histories of the region and plan to do some field 
research in Guadalajara, Totatiche and Colotlan later this year.

I am particularly interested in history of the names RAMOS, ARANZAZU, 
REZA, GONZALEZ, GARCIA, QUINTANILLA, PINEDO, LEMUS

The following is the full list of surnames in my GEDCOM database thus 
far:

RAMOS, PINEDO, GARCIA, GUTIERREZ, REZA, RIOS, GONZALEZ, ARANZAZU, 
LEMUS, GRANO, QUINTANILLA, MADERA, MIRAMONTES, RODRIGUEZ, TORRES, 
FLORES, ENRIQUEZ, CAMPOS, LEMUS, ROJAS

The article on the yarn paintings was especially wonderful, thank you 
for sharing it.  I found in Jerez these Indios are invisible people.  
The men still dress in the white trousers and the women and children 
in colorful long skirts and head scarves, they were selling beautiful 
bead work in the Plaza in Jerez.  I was told not to make eye contact 
with them!  The locals truly looked through them so what they were 
selling was to the tourists since the local's didn't see them! I was 
told they live outside of town and are very poor.  Some things are 
slow to change.

Linda

Joseph,

In all the previous posting, I think you get the idea of what went on in the past regarding 
Spanish first names and surnames. I have reviewed thousands of documents from the 
18th, 19th and 20th century in Mexico.  It appears quite clear that there was a relatively 
lax attitude toward names and even surnames in Spanish communities. In my Felguerez 
line, one of the mates (depending on what document you were reading) went by Dolores 
Garcia or Maria Encarnacion Garcia or Carnacion Garcia. Same person. The hard part is 
when a family decides to change the last name altogether, e.g. Don Juan de Oñate is 
classic example. 

I could complicate the issue more by speculating on the literacy rate at any point in time/
location and how sober the padre was when he was writing but I won't go there.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alberto Duarte  wrote:
> You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
> Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
>

She's probably related to my great-grandfather's first wife, Eleuteria Tovar.:) Marge:)

On Jul 9, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Alberto Duarte wrote:

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother

Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name

written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria

Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria

Vasquez Tobar.



Alberto.

Santa Maria, California

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria
Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria
Vasquez Tobar.

Alberto.
Santa Maria, California

--- Emilie Garcia  wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores

Joseph,

I have never come across a man with only the name Jose at baptism.  I asked my wife, Gloria, and she says that she has seen a number of men given only the name Jose at baptism.  Gloria researches mainly Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Puerto Rico.  She has done hundreds of extractions in her own research.  

My own experience, in Senecú, taught me to be flexible in naming people.  In the case of my ggggrandfather he showed up as: Carpio, Juan, Trinidad, Policarpio and combinations of all.  Finally I figured out that he was named Juan Trinidad Policarpio.  I was able to do this by extraction from the microfilms.  I find it incredible that anyone could do it using the IGI online.  I guess you have noticed that the names used in recording marriages is usually different from the baptism records.  Someday I'll read the notes on the Council of Trent to see if the RCChurch mandated that children in the western hemisphere be named José or María.  

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that

I agree

Been there...done that on many occassion.  

Heard years ago priests, in late 1700's,  scripted
"Jose and/or Maria" to distinguish gender.
What say you?

Jose Munoz
Yuba City, Ca.





--- Emilie Garcia  wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also
> noticed in the

Joseph,

 

After many years of searching the IGI and microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I run into the same things you have.  It seems that the priests would also often abbreviate these three common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David, Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also noticed in the films that all children baptised or born on or near a