Nuestros Ranchos Site

Good morning Esperanza ,

No , unfortunately no one has deciphered the meaning of any of the paintings or the petroglyphs . Jose Garza Carrillo told me that the best indian heads are in La Laguna in Coahuila . He and his son in law have written a book on the paintings and petroglyphs along with students and a professor from a university in the states .

Welester

> > > Hi Welester,> > Has anyone been able to decipher the meaning of these? They are similar to > the ones that I have seen in Coahuila (near Villa Union) on a ranch that is > owned by distant cousins.> > Esperanza> > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Sorry it took so long Welester, but I have finally uploaded the pictures
I was suppose to upload back in early May.

these pictures are fabulous and everyone should see what our ancestors
were up to many many hundreds of years ago:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16075

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Hello,

I've recently joined this group as I have begun researching the ancestors of Juan Vargas (b 1890 in Malpaso, Zacatecas; d 1962 in El Paso, Texas) and his wife Maximina Bautista (b 1898; d 1936 in El Paso, Texas)

I don't have anything yet on Juan's family having only just learned where he was born through a US-Mexico border crossing manifest, but I've made some major headway on Maximina's family from her death certificate.

Just today I received a copy of Maximina's baptism record. It is transcribed into English as follows:
In the parish del Sagrario in Zacatecas June 12, 1898 I baptized Maximiana Bautista, who was born on May 29 in Las Minas del Bote. Legitimate daughter of Gerardo Bautista and Bacilia Palos. Paternal grandparents Tiburcio Bautista and Regina Muro. Maternal grandparents Hilario Palos and Paula Casas. Godparents Antonio Espinoza and Tomasa Ramos. Signed Daniel Guerra.
My geography question comes from the fact I know very little about Mexico. This baptism record refers to the "Parish del Sagrario" and what I assume to be a town called "Las Minas del Bote". Is a parish in Mexico similar to a county here in the states? I know Louisiana has parishes instead of counties. Or are parishes in Mexico strictly religious regions, not part of the governmental structure.

Also, I've seen references to Municipalities, so that a place is located as a Town, Municipality, State, Country. I believe Malpaso is in Villanueva. Is La Minas del Bote also in Villanueva?

I know these are probably pretty basic (er, stupid) questions... but I have to start somewhere!

My folder on the Nuestros Ranchos website is at this address under the name Vargas, Juan: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16085

Thank you,
K.

Is there a way one can associate ranchos of yesteryear with ranchos of
today, in lieu of name changes to many towns/ranchos/and pueblos as a result of
the revolutionary war?

In particular, I am wondering if I can visit what used to be called Rancho
de Rana, Rancho de Aguajes, Rancho de Eno.

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello, I have come to the attention that this is something i need to ask for questioning. As my family knows that in our entire pedigree is really intermarriage my parents, grandparents, grt grandparents, etc... I was wondering why would people marry inside family? I was always confused. I do find it very fascinating though when doing genealogy especially when doing genealogy. because its really fun playing around with the intermarriage. I think of it as a giant puzzle and trying to put it together. Although I did find it confusing at first but then learned alot. I was just wondering why was this a custom or practice? My family still does this. I did also hear someone said if you practice Incestry then the child will become deformed or something like that. But we all have came out perfectly fine. My grandfather said something in the early colonial Mexico they Espanoles would marry inside the family to keep something he called quote "La puresa de sangre" although i do not know what that really means at this moment. He said that they didnt like to mix with Indians or Mulatos. Which is prob a little racist. I hope I can get a response. Thanks for all your help in the past. Thanks to this group I have already made connections with over half tof the group so far. Through the Lopez de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Trevino, de la Garza, Mendoza, and all the other lines etc.
-Daniel Mendez del Camino

Have a listen to new material by our very own Oral Historian: Frank
Moreno Sifuentes:

> *Los Cuentos de Kiko*
>
> I'm so happy to introduce Frank Moreno Sifuentes to the Nuestra
> Familia Unida podcast community. In this series of Oral History
> Cuentos expect to hear about one family, but the experiences are those
> of an immigrant nation.
>
> * Frank Moreno Sifuentes, 74. Born in Austin, Texas when its
> population was only 38,000 (now around l,000,000!) In l950 joined the
> U.S. Navy during the Korean War. After getting out fell in love with
> Sarah Diaz; and married in Compton, CA. We had three daughters and
> three sons; and now have 11 grandchildren and two great grandchildren.
>
> Both of us had careers in human services. After retiring on
> Social Security we became resident managers for low-income Seniors in
> l997 and now live at the Patrician Apts. and administer a 87 unit
> complex. Graduated from UCLA 1962 in History & Spanish. Got a
> Certificate in Youth Counseling at Arizona State University. Was
> deeply involved in the Chicano Social Movement 1965 to the present.
>
> Have been writing essays, stories, letters, resolutions, press
> releases since l964. The last 10 years worked as Public Relations &
> Resource Development for Health Education and Children's Services. *
>
>
> ===> "Calcutta 1973" by Frank Moreno Sifuentes
>
>
> ===> "Daddy Blue" by Frank Moreno Sifuentes
>
>
> ===> "Letter to my Jefito" by Frank Moreno Sifuentes
>
>
>
> ===> "Tortilla Lore" by Frank Moreno Sifuentes
>

----------------------------------

> This month we have a great audio presentations by Jack Cowan on the
> "Texas Connection to the American Revolution":
>
>> *American Revolution*
>>
>>
>> *"Texas Connection To The American Revolution"*
>>
>> ===>Click To Hear "*Texas Connection To The American Revolution*
>> "
>> Part 1
>>
>> ===>Click To Hear "*Texas Connection To The American Revolution*
>> "
>> Part 2
>>
>> Few people know that Texas (as Provence of New Spain) played a most
>> important part in winning the American Revolution. It could be argued
>> that without Texas' help, we would be driving on the wrong side of
>> the road in America today. This talk opens a whole new perspective
>> into the War for American Independence and related issues lost from
>> the school history books.
>>
>> Jack Cowan is a retired Army Lieutenant Colonel and lectures on
>> forgotten early American history subjects such as The First
>> Presidents and The Texas Connection to the American Revolution. He is
>> a member and past president of the Sons of the American Revolution
>> (San Antonio Chapter) and founder of the Texas Connection to the
>> American Revolution Association and has done
>> extensive studies in American History.

Hola Tomas,
Nosotros hemos comunicado antes. Tenemos parentesco por los
Gomez (nuestros antecedentes, Manuel Gomez y Catalina
Hurtado-de-Mendoza). Yo me imagino que el Censo Americano podria
asistir en esto. Quizas alguien mas pueda ayudar en como se hace esto.
Yo aun no lo he hecho esto. He visto otras personas en la biblioteca
familiar hacer esto por la red.
Vivo en California y tambien mi padre me cuenta que un tio de el
se vino a los Estados Unidos y tuvo muchos de familia durante los anos
1940. Le tendre que preguntar a mi padre el nombre de la ciudad y
estado otra vez. Nunca se supo mas de ellos. Yo tambien me gustaria
encontrar los decendientes de esta familia. Muchas veces solo buscamos
a los muertos cuando hay muchos parientes que viven.... :)

Hello Tomas,
We've communicated before. We're related via our Gomez line
(our ancestors, Manuel Gomez y Catalina Hurtado-de-Mendoza). I imagine
that the American Census could help in this matter. Maybe someone else
could help in how this is done. I have yet to research this. I've seen
other in tha Family History Library search the Internet.
I live in California & my father tells me that one of his uncles
immigrated to the U.S. and he had a rather large family during the
1940s. I will have to ask my father the name of the city and state. No
one ever heard from them again. I would love to find their descendants.
Often we're only looking for dead relatives and ignore the living... :)

Irma

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:01:04 -0500
From: " Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez "
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda para Investigar Personas en USA
To: Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com, general@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:
<50f333d50706210801r2fc88d1fh4b87b11eb32388b7@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hola a Todos en el grupo:

Disculpen la molestia, quisiera saber si alguien puede orientarme
para ver la forma de investigar sobre familiares que se fueron a vivir a
Estados Unidos desde las primeras decadas de 1900 y ya no se supo mas de
ellos en mi familia, existira alguna pagina en internet para poder
investigar eso, o alguna agencia gubernamental de Estados Unidos de
Norteamerica donde pueda solicitar esta informacion, ya que quisiera
saber de esa familia, que fin tubieron y tambien sobre si existiran
descendientes, tambien quisiera saber eso mismo pero en el caso de
familiares que se fueron a vivir a otros lugares de Mexico y que tampoco
se supo mas de ellos.

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

------------------------------

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez (Vigotal) pide ayuda para investigar sobre familiares que se fueron a Estados Unidos hace unos cien anos y solamente presenta los nombres de 3 personas.

Esta clase de peticion no me parece que entra dentro de los propositos de temas genealogicos de este foro y el no provee informacion acerca de estas personas que pueda ser de ayuda a un investigador (tal como fechas y lugares de sus nacimientos, lugar de procedimiento en Mexico, nombre de los padres, etc.) y bajo esas condiciones tales busquedas globales a traves de una nacion jigante como USA son dificeles/imposibles.

Pero, en caso que sea de ayuda a Vigotal o algun otro miembro de este foro, sujiero una busqueda en la base de datos de defunciones publicada por la Administracion del Seguro Social (Social Security Administration) en la manera siguiente:

http://familytreelegends.com > Records>> (Records Index) Birth, Marriage, Death, & Other >>> Next 20>>>> Social Security Death Index>>>>> Escribir el Apellido (Surname) >>>>>> Escribir el Nombre Propio (First Name) >>>>>> Pulsar el Buscador (Submit).

Apareceran lists de personas difuntas que pudieran incluir la persona que se esta buscando, y el investigador puede confirmarlo (y obtener datos adicionales) pidiendo una copia de la Tarjeta de Registro original. Para esto pulse y brotara una carta de peticion ya preparada que puede mandar a las Oficinas del Seguro Social.

Deseando que esto le sea de servicio a algun miembro, y con mis disculpas si me he salido del proposito del foro.

Efrain
San Diego, California

Hola a Todos en el grupo:

Disculpen la molestia, quisiera saber si alguien puede
orientarme para ver la forma de investigar sobre familiares
que se fueron a vivir a Estados Unidos desde las primeras
decadas de 1900 y ya no se supo mas de ellos en mi
familia, existira alguna pagina en internet para poder
investigar eso, o alguna agencia gubernamental de Estados
Unidos de Norteamerica donde pueda solicitar esta
informacion, ya que quisiera saber de esa familia, que
fin tubieron y tambien sobre si existiran descendientes,
tambien quisiera saber eso mismo pero en el caso de
familiares que se fueron a vivir a otros lugares de Mexico
y que tampoco se supo mas de ellos.

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

I'm asking for your comments to be sent to Lynn Turner.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Removed Application/Nuestros Ranchos
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:58:11 -0600
From: Lynn Turner
To: Joseph Puentes
References: <467AF2AF.5060601@nc.rr.com>

Hi Joseph,

I work in the Family History Dept. (Family History Library Support). I
am preparing a lecture on Mexican Family History Online for the upcoming
BYU Family History and Genealogy conference. I met a few of the
individuals from Nuestros Ranchos last year at the annual Hispanic
Family History conference held at the Family History Library in Salt
Lake City.

I don't research specifically any family names or in specific places in
Jalisco, Zacatecas, or Aguascalientes...but I wanted to get to know your
site a little better and possibly talk about it during my class at the
conference.

If you have any specific sites on the topic of Mexican family history I
would love to know about them (I already have about 20 sites or so).

thanks,

Lynn Turner, AG (accredited in Spain research)
BTW: You can check out my blog at: http://hispanicgenealogy.blogspot.com

>>> Joseph Puentes 6/21/2007 3:50 PM >>>

The Nuestros Ranchos group is only for Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or
Aguascalientes. I removed your application to the group because your
answer to which area of research didn't match any of these estados en
Mexico. If you are researching other areas please read the below form
letter. If you are researching this area (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or
Aguascalientes) you'll need to go back to the nuestrosranchos.org site
and "re-apply" for membership. If you do this please fill out the form
in detail as to your area of research interest within our area of
research: List the specific Ranchos if known.

--------------

We are limited in our area of research to the states of Jalisco,
Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes. Please visit the MexicanFHR group
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mexicanfhr/) which covers all of Mexico.
Jonathan Walker who heads up that group is an excellent source of help.

thanks,

Joseph Puentes

ps: if later you find that you do have roots in our area of research
please come back to nuestrosranchos.org and apply for a new account.
thanks.

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin
American History)

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I hope I have done this correctly.This is to Leticia Reynoso ,Where do your Reynoso Lines originate from ? Are your Reynoso ancestors Francisco married to Josepha Renteria (jalisco)or Diego Reynoso married to Margarita Renteria and wed in zacatecas.
Thank for your time
Ronnie Reynoso

I am making the switch from a PC to a Mac... not as extreme as it may seem since the new Macs run Windows and Windows applications natively in addition to Mac operating system and software. But I would like to find some good genealogy software that I can use on the Macintosh side of the system.

I remember a few months ago there was some discussion on this and I posted a link to a site that deals with Macintosh genealogy software but I was hoping I could get some "real life" feedback from people who have actually used the software.

http://www.freewebs.com/nosotroslostejanos/abouttheconference.htm

Celebrating Tejano Heritage

The National Tejano Genealogy Conference will be held on September 13 to September 16, 2007 in Austin, Texas. The CONFERENCE HEADQUARTERS will be at the beautiful EMBASSY SUITES which are located at 5901 N. IH 35 in AUSTIN, Texas 78723.

The 2007 Texas State Hispanic Genealogy Conference

Hotel: Embassy Suites North

* 2-room suites for fixed $129

* Complimentary breakfast & Happy Hour daily

* Free unlimited parking & Free shuttle bus

* Exhibits Room reserved Thursday through Saturday

Thursday Welcome Recption:

* 6 – 9 PM Registration & Exhibits

* 7 – 9 PM Welcome Reception, Embassy Suites Hotel

Friday & Saturday Speakers & Tours:

* Workshops in Hotel Conference Rooms all day Friday & Saturday

* John Wheat on Spanish Archives, Bexar Archives, UT

* Adan Benavides on Documents and Paleography, Benson Library, UT

* Galen Greiser on Spanish Land Grants, General Land Office

* Diana Houston on Genealogy Index, Zavala State Library & Archives

* The Bob Bullock State History Museum

Friday Library Recption:

* 6 – 9 PM Buffet, U.T. Benson Latin American Collection

* 8 PM Texas-Tejano Heritage Performance

Saturday Awards Banquet:

* 7 – 9 PM Grande Lobby, Bob Bullock State History Museum

* Tejano Book Prize

* Tejano Heritage Essay Scholarship

* Music and Buffet

Hi,

I have traced the ancestry of some of the Rivas of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon to Rivas or de la Riva of Durango and the Quinones of Durango. Antonio Manual and Julian Rivas of Galeana, NL were born in Durango to Pedro Rivas and Maria Quinones who were married in 1723 at San Francisco de Asis, San Juan Del Rio, Durango. The records there only go to the late 1670's. Records for Nazas go to 1690s.
Cuencame records go to late 1650's. DOes anyone know if earlier records exist or were earlier records
destroyed? I don't know anything of the history of San Juan Del Rio, DUrango.

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from MBLOPEZ : --------------

>
> I recently learned that my mother's family came from Degollado, not La Barca as
> previously thought. Many members here have been helpful and supportive in the
> past so I wanted to post this update and hope for some possible links. The names
> I am now "researching" are: Bravo, Tinoco, Rizo, Ponce, Santana. These surnames
> are all on my mother's side and in the Degollado area mid to late 1800's.
> Many Thanks,
> Michael Lopez Bravo

Hello Arturo

I will call you. I emailed you and it was returned. A lot has happened
thus no calls, email....

Will call - left a message for you one day.

Mickey

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi there ,
I would like to have the file .

Thank you ,
Welester

> > For those of you who would like it. I can send a file that supposibly> traces the European Royality back to Adam. It is about 2.6 meg in size.
_________________________________________________________________
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That's a good story. I remember my dad (a white German) howling, too, when
the mariachis would sing and play at our church fiestas. He may have had a
beer or two, but he would let out that characteristic howl, can't put it
into words, but I remember that more than the way it is supposed to sound!

I never realized until hearing the Las Mananitas song and in remembering the
mariachis, how much of the Mexican culture was in my upbringing and in my
hometown in So. Cal., mostly connected to my church. I know that the
Catholic church in Mexico was a focal point for villages, as churches used
to be in this country. I loved the activities and people in my church, the
fiestas, the families that kept having baby after baby, the long history
with so many of them from having gone to the same church for years and
years. All the pancake breakfasts, spagetti dinners, potlucks, doing
yardwork around the priest's home, cleaning the altar with my mother every
Saturday morning, praying to the statue of the Blessed Mother after
confession. I would look at the snake she had under her foot and want to
touch it! Those were good times. I'm very glad and very proud of that
heritage, that background. My church was a community rich in Mexican
culture, even though the region was an Italian stronghold (I've heard a lot
of polka music, too!).

Corrine

Hola Bill y Jorge:

Gusto en saludarlos, espero estén bien y les deseo lo mejor.

Yo también les doy gracias a los 2 por sus informaciones ya que
como también yo estudio mi genealogía en los altos de Jalisco, todos
estos datos son muy interesantes y de gran ayuda para mi.

Si yo he oido del ilustre genealogista Don Jaime Holcombe, que
paso gran parte de su vida estudiando e investigando genealogía, eso
me lo han comentado los hermanos genealogistas de la estaca unión
de aquí mi ciudad de Guadalajara, me dicen que como afirma Bill,
a pesar de tener muchísimos conocimientos y documentos
genealógicos nunca publico nada, y al morir sus su tesoro
archivistico quedo a la deriva, que de recién muerto su viuda
ofreció los archivos en venta a los miembros de la Iglesia de Jesucristo
de los Santos de los últimos Días, pero que los ofreció muy caros
y ellos no quisieron comprárselos, y según me dicen, al parecer el
Sr. Holcombe, todabia en vida, había autorizado a IJSUL a microfilmar
sus archivos, y me dicen que se pueden pedir los microfilmes de sus
archivos para investigar en ellos, solo hay que saberlos buscar para
localizar los números de los microfilmes.
Y a fin de cuentas no he sabido que fin tuvieron los archivos
originales del Sr. Holcombe, ojala y no hayan terminado tirados
en el basurero o quemados, y puedan rescatarse, por eso es tan
importante dar a la luz la investigación que tanto trabajo cuesta
reunir, y que no quede truncada y en el olvido toda esa información
que es muchas de las veces gran parte de la vida de un investigador
como lo fue del Sr. Holcombe, y gracias a dios existe este gran
medio de Internet de alcance mundial para y los grupos de disoluciones
genealógicas para dar a conocer lo investigado o realizar un libro en
formato PDF y venderlo electronicamente por internet.

Por cierto Jorge Luis, hace unos días me contacto primero por
correo electrónico y luego hablamos telefónicamente la Sra. Beatrice
Gutiérrez, comentandome primero que hablo con el Sr. Mariano
Gonzalez Leal preguntando por su libro enciclopédico de apellidos
de los Altos de Jalisco, y al parecer la trato muy mal y se subió de
tono esa conferencia telefónica, y me comenta la Sra. Beatrice que
quedo muy desilusionada de Don Mariano.
En segundo lugar, me comento que ella es la verdadera autora
del libro que últimamente llaman de "Genealogía de Pegueros, Jalisco"
pero que ella por su propio esfuerzo investigo y publico y agoto en su
totalidad el pequeño tiraje de la edición, este libro me comenta, ella
lo publico en honor a su en aquel entonces precien fallecido padre,
y me dice que en verdad se titulo "Descencencia de Isidro Gutiérrez
Robledo (El Mozo) en Pegueros, Jalisco", que este personaje fue
el que fue a vivir y dio forma al hoy poblado de Pegueros, Jalisco y
casi todos los Gutierrez de Mendoza de este pueblo son sus
descendientes, también me comento sobre el famoso "Birrias", que
ya una de sus hermanas hablo con el, y que en verdad es
impresionante la lucidez de conocimiento que tiene sobre la
genealogia de Pegueros, en especial de los Gutiérrez de Mendoza
que en verdad es una enciclopedia viviente sobre el tema, me dice
que se apellida Gutierrez también y que al parecer se le puede
encontrar en el cementerio de Pegueros ya que hace trabajos de
albañileria alli en el Cementerio que tiene entre 35 y 40 años de
edad.
Jorge: Cuéntame como estuvo el certamen de Señorita Pegueros.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

I wanted to thank everyone for helping me with those translations. I
realize more and more how important it is to go beyond literal
translations. Learning the history not only brings into the equation the
setting and purpose to the words being used the way they were, but also
enriches our understanding of our ancestors' lives.

Corrine Ardoin

I am aware that the Northern California (NorCal) group had a meeting in March, but don't remember seeing a follow-up report - did I miss it? where would I find it?
Are there any other regional meetings being planned this year ... just in case I might be in your area at the same time as a planned meeting - I'd like to join in, if possible. Just trying to plan ahead ; - )

Gracias,
Natalie in VA

My name is Paula Wakefield and I am searching for maternal ancestors---any help will be appreciated. Thank You
Octaviano Castorena and Refugio Macias are my GGgrandparents. ( Maternal --moms' dads line) I have no info on them other than the following children.
MARIA MARCOS CASTORENA MACIAS-b.4/25/1853--C.-4/26/1853--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
FERNANDO CASTORENA MACIAS-b.-5/30/1854-C.-5/31/1854--Sagarario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco,Mexico
TEOFILA CASTORENA MACIAS-C.-1/10/1856--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
MARIA VICENTA DE LOS DOLORES CASTORENA MACIAS-C.-7/20/1857-Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico
JOSE HIGINIO CASTORENA MACIAS-C.-1/11/1859-Nuestra Senora de La Soledad, Irapuato, Guanajuato,Mexico
ANASTACIA CASTORENA MACIAS-C.-4/26/1862-El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas,Zacatecas
REFUGIO CASTORENA MACIAS--( this was my Ggrandmother ) C.-6/28/1864--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
I don't know why this family moved so much--as I said I can't find anything on the parents-Octaviano Castorena and Refugio Macias.
Refugio Castorena married HILARIO HERNANDEZ- son of Ramon Hernandez and Maria Zenobia Guerra. This family was from Guanajuato, Mexico. The only child I can find whose parents were Hilario Hernandez and Refugio Castorena was
MARIA HERNANDEZ-B.-5/25/1892--c.6/5/1892--Sagrario, Aguacalientes,Aguacalientes,Mexico

I know there were at least 5 older sibs--these included my grandfather

I was able to get a copy of Marias' Baptismal record-It names both sets of grandparents, that is how I was able to go back another generation but I am blocked--I even went through 5000 Castorena surnames and no luck with Octaviano. For that matter I can not find his wife Refugio Macias nor my other set of GGrandparents-Ramon Hernandez and Zenobia Guerra.
Any help to trace my ancestors is truly appreciated. I'd have a séance but--if it did work they probably wouldn't show up there either.
Thank You
Paula

Sorry it took so long Welester, but I have finally uploaded the pictures
I was suppose to upload back in early May.

these pictures are fabulous and everyone should see what our ancestors
were up to many many hundreds of years ago:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16075

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Hi Joseph ,

Glad you liked them and I'm sure the members will like them as well . I will try and get fotos of the petroglyphs , they show a lot of creativity .

Welester
> > Sorry it took so long Welester, but I have finally uploaded the pictures > I was suppose to upload back in early May.> > these pictures are fabulous and everyone should see what our ancestors > were up to many many hundreds of years ago:> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16075&gt; > joseph>
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Victoriano,

I can think of various translations of the verb "velar."
1.- [common] To stay awake, not to sleep; even as when "working the 'third
shift.' "
2.- [religion] To keep vigil. As in Rosaries and accompanying the body
throughout the night in funerals.
3.- [variant] To keep watch (hacer guardia).
4.- [figurative] To veil, to obscure, to hide.

In the instant case, I am convinced that it is a variation of number 4, and
relates to that integral portion of the catholic marriage ceremony where
the face of the bride is "unveiled" by the priest, and in modern ceremonies
commonly performed jointly by the best man and the maid of honor. In this
same context, we can note that "veiling ceremonies" sometimes were
conducted, at sites separate from where the marriage ceremony was
conducted, in such cases as when the bride and groom were 'vecinos' of
different parishes.

Hope this is not too confusing.

Efrain

> [Original Message]
> From: victorianonavarro
> To:
> Date: 6/12/2007 8:16:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Latin in Marriage Record
>
>
> A non literal translation could be:
> "After doing all I was supposed to do according to the Catholic rites, I
marry and watch over before the Church (or in the front part of the
building, as conrique says) these persons..."
> Or:
> "after the formalities and examination of the christian doctrine I marry
and I watch over before the Church, this guy and his bride...."
> Regards,
> VN

I had some difficulty translating a couple of phrases found in parish
marriage records. I discovered they are Latin phrases that seem to be
terms used in parish documents that have specific meaning. I found some of
them in a law dictionary. One of these phrases is "in fasie eclesia." In
fasie, in the law dictionary, means "in the presence of," so the term, I
concluded, since "eclesia" refers to the church, would translate as "in the
presence of the church."

The next phrase is "inter missarum solemnia." The word "inter" means
"among" and "solemnia," looks like "solemn," so this term would translate as
"among solemn....." Well, that's all I figured out so far. This is in an
1896 record. But, as I recall, even in the 1960's when I attended my
Catholic church in Southern California, the mass was still in Latin, so I
guess it shouldn't come as any surprise to find Latin terms as recent as the
late 1800's.

One of the sentences I am having particular difficulty with, I was hoping
someone could help me with. The document starts out with the usual
introduction of where it is and who is writing the document. Then it goes
into what was done there, saying, "previas las diligencias de estilo y
examen de la doctrina cristiana caso y velo in fasie eclesia, a ....."
Then, it gives the grooms and brides names, their information, etc. So far,
I have translated it as "foresaw the formalities and examination of the
christian doctrine marry and watch over in the presence of the church,
to...." But, this doesn't make any sense. Anyone have any ideas?

Corrine Ardoin