Nuestros Ranchos Site

The line I am researching is documented through Ana Francisca Gabadí (marriage of her daughter Lorensa in 1623 and birth of her son Bernabé in 1618) or Gabay (from her burial record in 1652).

I have gone back and read the threads on the topic of Martín Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma (beginning about 2006), and I understand that there is the widespread supposition that Ana Francisca is a daughter of Martín and Petronila. My question is this: has there been anything definitive since then (the 2006 and later threads) to establish proof of this connection?

I should point out that, while it would be fascinating to establish a connection to Moctezuma II, that is an historical curiosity; my purpose is to follow the genealogical leads wherever they go. I am currently reading Chipman's "Moctezuma's Children", which I purchased online from the UT Press—on-demand printing, quick service, and not expensive.

Prospero Año Nuevo / Happy New Year to all,
Lawrence Bouett

Rose,

Thanks for the information. Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza, alias Bernardo Salado, was indeed a legitimate son of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I have lots of documentation to prove that. Attached you will find excerpts of his final will and testament, which reads as follows:
Testamento de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza

Sello Tercero, Un Real, Años de Mil Seiscientos y Noventa, y Noventa y Uno.

En Nombre de Dios Todo Poderoso y de su Vendita Madre la Siempre Virgen Maria concebida en Gracia y Gloria desde el primer instante de su ser. Amen.
Notorio y manifiesto sea a los que este pressente testamento vieren, como yo, Bernardo Ruys de Esparssa, hijo legitimo de Lope Ruys de Esparssa y de Francisca Gabai su Lexitima Muxer, vezinos que fueron de esta Villa de Aguas calientes de donde soy natural y actualmente vezino estando en mi entera salud cabal, juissio, memoria y entendimiento....etc. etc.

On a different paragraph, he continues
Y ten declaro que fui casado y velado segun horden de Ntra. Sta. Madre Yglesia Chatolica Romana, con Chatalina Lossano, Hija Lexitima de Juan Lozano y de Ysabel de Friaz su Lexitima Muxer, vecinos que fueron del pueblo de Theocaltiche, y que con la susodicha dote...etc. etc.
What I cannot understand is why the alias "Salado" that was given to Bernardo and to several generations of his descendants. They were all Ruiz de Esparza as shown in most documents, but every now and then the alias "Salado" pops up in some document.

I will check each and every one of the individuals you have in your list, but it is going to take me some time. They are all my relatives and I belive I have them all are in my database. Unfortunately, I am tied up with lots of work, but will try to make some time next weekend.

Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: hardyr
To: Bill Figueroa
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Esparza/Salado

Bill

I had the information posted at Nuestros Ranchos on the Salado/Esparza mystery...but I messed up my file....I've asked for Joseph's help...I haven't a clue to what I did...but this is the information I have....and believe me there are enough Bernardo Salados to go around

:-)
Rose Hardy

does anyone have any information on Cocolan last name anything will help thanks

My name is Olga Torres Placencia and I live in El Paso, Texas. I have recently taken to look up my descendants in honor of my mother life. My mother was Maria Placencia Torres. She was born in Santa Maria de los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico in 1934. Her parents were Filomeno Placencia Galvez 1896 - 1983 and Soledad Romero Placencia. Her grandparents were on her father's side were Roman Placencia 1865 and Benigna Galvez. Roman Placencia's parents were Jose Domingo Placencia 1816 and Monica Romero. Domingo's parents were Jose Rafael Placencia 1795 and Ynozencia Sanchis. Rafael's parents were Juan Ynasio Placencia 1764 and Maria Balentina Robles. Juan Ynasio Placencia's parents were Felis Fernando Placencia 1732 and Gertrudis Guerrero. Felis Fernando Placencia's parents were Ysidro Placencia and Gertrudis Rodriguez.

On my father's side Ruben Torres Ramos. He was born in the Barrio de San Miguel in Santa Maria de los Angeles, Jalsico, Mexico. His parents were Jose Torres 1882 and Julia Ramos. Jose's parents were Benito Torres and Mariana Pichardo. He was an illegimate child. Mariana Pichardo Garcia was born 1865 and died in San Antonio, Bexas county on July 26, 1873. I would love to know more about her. Benito Torres's 1864 parents were Jose Esteven Torres 1840 and Petra Yglesiaz. Jose Esteven Torres's father were Bernabe Torres 1822 and Maria Antonia Lopez. Bernabe Torres's parents were Francisco Torres and Lugarda Sarmiento.

Any further information would really be helpful.

Old photographs year 1864 (during the time Mexican/French War)

Scroll to bottom and you will see a number of old photographs of Zacatecas and Aguascalientes:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8432925f.r=aguascalientes.langEN

Hello, my name is Rayna Babette Allen. My great-grandmother, Pascuala Aceves, was born in Sayula, Jalisco in 1854 and moved to California when she was about 16 years old. After decades of searching by her descendants, I finally found the names of her parents in December 2014. Pascuala's parents were Manuel Asebes and Maria Juana Lopez, both of Sayula. Because I was able to find Baptismal records, other names also opened up.

The parents of Manuel Asebes were Bernardo Asebes and Maria Urzula Villalbazo.
The parents of Maria Juana Lopez were Mario Lopes and Antonia Cuevas.

The parents of Bernardo Asebes were Pedro Asebes and Maria Gertrudis Paz.
The parents of Maria Urzula Villalbazo were Francisco Xabier Villalbazo and Maria Francisca Dias.

Pascuala also had siblings: Agustina Aceves (married Fernando Teodoro Marcus Bengsohn), Maria Clara Aceves, Atilano Aceves, Maria Romula Aceves (married Emil Tiburce Murat), Jose Eucebio Acebes, and, Bernardo Aceves (aka Fernando). Pascuala married William Francis Adams.

At this point I am stuck, however, I am very grateful for what I've found after years of searching.

I have taken the ancestry.com DNA test and uploaded my results to gedmatch.com. Because of the ancestry.com DNA test I have found great-grandchildren of Pascuala's sisters Agustina and Maria Romula. It is so exciting for all of us and we are in contact almost daily. These 3rd cousins and others in our family have also taken DNA tests.

Thank you for letting me be a part of this group!

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/raynababette

http://gallica.bnf.fr/Search?ArianeWireIndex=index&f_typedoc=images&q=m…

Check this out:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b2300041h.r=mexico.langFR
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b5902225s/f1.zoom
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b2300041h/f1.zoom.r=mexico

i’ve made an ordenes and capellenias categories. i’m gonna focus on those for a bit since they are a tad bit easier since most of the time each document has more pages than the average marriage dispensation.

if you’d like to volunteer, shoot me an email at detective1920@yahoo.com or ponyboycurtis@live.com and either send an index you did on your own that hasn’t been done on my index site or the original one + telling me what name you’d like on the credits OR ask me to send you one of my incomplete indexes. I have like close to 20 ordenes and marriage dispensations indexing sitting in my indexes in progress folder on google docs.

i might change the theme soon as well.

Hi Katy,
I don't descend from this family, but, from everything I've read, Maria Cid is always described as either a sister or a half-sister. And, I think a Will dated in the 1500s is a much more reliable source than a record of orders dated nearly two hundred years later.
Chris

Copy this reference no.

MP-MEXICO,360

To: http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

Here is a picture of what it looks like. But if you enlarge it you can see the names of all the pueblos:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2rwtj6g.jpg

http://www.europeana.eu/portal/search.html?qf=DATA_PROVIDER%3a%22Cat%C3…

Or in the search area, type what you want to search for:

http://www.europeana.eu/portal/

https://cronicascartograficas.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/mexcity1524-2…

I also found this link that has old books of Mexico:

http://www.artandbooksonline.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=2_83&osCsid=el…

are miguel caldera and maria cid siblings or is miguel caldera her uncle. miguel's will refers to maria cid as his sister, but tomas villegas's ordenes refers to miguel as being maria cid's uncle.

here's the link to the page on tomas villegas's ordenes that states miguel is maria cid' uncle.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18379-41013-45?cc=1874591&wc…

http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/post/121254094293/ordenes-1756-1…

i've decided to index this today and was able to this within 4-5 hours (with breaks in between). i'm probably gonna do more indexing of these as well.

also i;m working on part 2 of the matrimonios 1811 records since the first part is like only jocotepec records.

Interesting reading about the Limon last name my mom is from yahualica Jalisco do you know where does the Limon come from I have heard they have shepardic lineage. I would love to know more about this. Cualquier información será muy agradecida

Sent from my iPhone

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

i question the accuracy of page 153 since miguel's will said that he only had one daughter named isabel. so it's unlikely the jose cid is miguel's son. also how did holcombe verify that the pedro cid who married maria carrillo is a son of hernan gonzales and maria cid

I notice that Familysearch updated the church records for Jalisco on 3 June, 2015. Does anyone know how to locate the records that actually were added? The message indicates that new records are indicated by an *; however I have been unable to locate any. Thank you, Deedra Corona

Does anyone have any information on Martin Enríquez (whose mother was Magdalena de Saldaña) and Isabel de Ulloa? They lived and had children in Colotlán, in Las Vocas, and at least two of their children married there.

Hello "My Genes",
Having descended from the Hurtado de Mendozas and the Perez, Franco families from Los Altos, I would be very interested in this documentation. These are my father's lines, and although we have always been very Catholic, I have noticed a few small things that might be Sephardic in general.
I have also read the chapter from "Retonos..." where Mariano dispels Jewish and French lines. In my research, I have never ran across French names, Altenos are a very closed society--remember: is mejor conocido que por conocer--proper Altenas would never run off and marry a French soldier, plus the French were never known to be in our area. I vaguely recall Mariano's references to these people being a very Catholic society (remember la Cristiada), and he did give examples of why this society could not be Jewish. Possibly we were Jewish, but it was too long ago to really matter in everyday life.
At any rate, I would be interested in this documentation you have run across. I do recall that the Perez came from Huelva, Espana, and the former prime minister of Israel, Shimon Perez. That's about it.
Thanks,
Irma Gomez gtz
N. Calif.

1. Re: mixture of clans (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:47:51 +0000
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Message-ID:
<942282224-1266972290-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-160926564…>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Most of The first families from jalisco were related through the hernandez de hijar and the hurtado de mendoza and there is clear documentation showing at least 4 moor lines and other jewish (marano) lines this is not an opinion, there is clear evidence of this. The mountains where the mendoza family came from was originally a jewish area. Many of The families that the mendoza married into in Castilla also originated from this jewish area. I also believe that the perez that married into the francos to form the perez franco de paredes family were from the jewish perestrello family of portugal this family was originally the Pallestrelli family of Genoa. This last bit of info is the only info here that has not been clearly documented yet and some people disagree with my opinion of where the perez came from.
I repeat, the connection to the hernandez de hijar and mendoza lines to jewish and moorish ancestors have been documented
*************

I'm asking help in finding this film
source: sagrada mitra 167980 film - record # 301
page 64 Familysearch online program

It is the marriage information record for Joseph Roman with Josepha Cid Caldera, she is 1st cousin 7x removed of my Father.

I've gone through the Sagrada records we have and can't find that film number, it is connected to another one?

Any and all help appreciated
Linda Castanon-Long
Olympia, Wa.

I was looking at some old postings on nuestro ranchos and saw that Irma Gomez Lucero and John Gonzalez both descend from people from Los Portales Jalisco. Los Portales is so small that almost everyone that descends from its inhabitants are relatively closely related. Miguel Gutierrez is another nuestro rancho member with Los Portales ancestors. Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez is related all of us that have Los Portales ancestors.

I was hoping to find out what other nuestro ranchos members have los Portales ancestors.

My Portales ancestors were Romo, Gutierrez, Gonzalez, Perez, Franco, Jimenez, Martin del Campo

R A Ricci

This link has a 1769 map of the area of Huejuquilla and missiones:

http://books.openedition.org/cemca/3088?lang=es

http://oi58.tinypic.com/205y1zb.jpg

Here is just part of the text inside that link, but there is much more:

"Nos el Doctor don Diego Rodrígues Rivas de Velasco por la Divina gracia, y de la Santa Sede Apostolica Obispo de Guadalaxara, nuevo Reyno de la Galicia y de Leon provincias del Nayarith, California Coahuila y Texas de el Concejo de Su Magestad, etcétera.

2Por el thenor del presente damos nuestra especial comision y facultad, la que de derecho se requiere y es necesaria a el Bachiller don Joseph Antonio Bugarin, Cura proprio y vicario Juez eclesiástico del pueblo de San Diego de Huejuquilla la Alta, para que en su virtud, y luego que reciba este despacho, dexando en dicho curato congrua administracion de los Santos Sacramentos, pase personalmente a la provincia de el Nayarith, y visite todas y cada una de las misiones establecidas, y fundadas en ellas, examinando y averiguando con la justificacion correspondiente quantas son en numero las dichas misiones, como se intitulan, quanto es el numero de los yndios baptisados, casados, quanto el de los solteros baptizados, en que tiempo fueron baptisados, y si son nacidos en las misiones, ó trahidos, ó venidos á ellas?."

Does anyone have any information on Martin Enríquez (whose mother was Magdalena de Saldaña) and Isabel de Ulloa? They lived and had children in Colotlán, in Las Vocas, and at least two of their children married there.

Does anyone have any information on Martin Enríquez (whose mother was Magdalena de Saldaña) and Isabel de Ulloa? They lived and had children in Colotlán, in Las Vocas, and at least two of their children married there.

Queria compartir estos documentos para ver si este persona, Juan de Portugal, es el mismo que Capitian Juan de Portugal, fundador de Lagos:

http://cpagncmxvi.historicas.unam.mx/ficha.jsp?idFicha=1-PAM-97-77.1
Juan de Portugal, vecino de la villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos que esta en el nuevo reino de Galicia, otorga poder especial al licenciado Melchor de Ávalos y a Álvaro López [...], residentes en Mexico, ausentes, para que en su nombre [...] para que otorguen carta de pago, finiquito y lasto. Para que puedan vender y trocar un cambio de esclavos negros, uno varon que se [...] pequeno de cuerpo y rehecho y la otra mujer que se [...] Catalina bien dispuesta, tiene unas taja[...]cos en el rostro ladinos y que son de propiedad para que las puedan vender por esclavos y que estan en poder de Melchor de Ávalos y haga carta de venta de ellos. Juan de Portugal otorgo la presente carta ante en muy magnifico señor Diego Fernández Cachán [sic.], alcalde ordinario por Su Majestad. No firmo por no saber. El escribano da fe que conoce al otorgante y al testigo que firma por el. Testigos: Andres Marin (firmo), Gregorio Barbosa y Pedro de Belmar, estantes. Juan de Sorita, escribano de cabildo de la villa, nombrado y del juzgado, confirmando de la Real Audiencia, de este reino presente, fue a todo lo que dicho es con uno con los dichos testigos, y lo hizo escribir, corregir y enmendo segun ante el paso y por ende hizo aqui su firma y rubrica acostumbrada que es a tal, en testimonio de verdad. Juan de Sorita, escribano de cabildo.”

y luego

http://cpagncmxvi.historicas.unam.mx/ficha.jsp?idFicha=1-PAM-97-77
Álvaro López, estante, en nombre de Juan de Portugal, su hermano, vecino de la villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, en el reino de Galicia, y por virtud del poder que de el tiene, y que paso ante Juan de Sorita, escribano de cabildo de la dicha villa cuyo tenor es el que sigue [Ver anexo 1] Por ende Álvaro López, en nombre de Juan de Portugal –por virtud del poder sus incorporado- [ven]de a Francisco de Villalobos, vecino, presente, un esclavo negro llamado Cristobal, pequeno de cuerpo y rehecho, ladino [...] en Zafra, de 20 anos de edad, habido de buena guerra y no de paz, libre de hipoteca y enajenamiento, no es borracho, ladron, ni [...], no tiene gota carala, ninguna tacha ni enfermedad p[ublica ni privada], por sano de sus mienbros, con cargo que es hu[idor], por precio de 150 pesos de oro [...] que le ha dado y pagado realmente. No firmo. Testigos: Fadrique de Leon, Bartolome de Merino y Francisco de Cebreros, vecinos.