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Por PicazoCervantes |

My mother is an immigrant from Mexico who became a U.S. citizen; my father’s family all came from the New Mexico area and became citizens when the U.S. bought (or stole) the territories. So basically, all my ancestors were of Mexican descent.

I joined this research forum because of my interest in the area of Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. My oral history indicated that my grandmother, Maria Cervantes, was born in Jalisco to parents, Modesto Cervantes & Petra Aguilera. Their respective parents were Quirino Cervantes and Maria Agatona Soto (or Agaton Escoto); and Geronimo Aguilera and Augustina Luevano. Maria reportedly had one brother, Desiderio and two half-siblings, Enrique and Maximiana. Ancestry.com shows that my grandfather, Filomeno Picazo, immigrated to the U.S. from Jalisco in 1915, and his brothers, Refugio and Nicolas immigrated in 1912 and 1917 respectively. From my mother’s baptismal record extracted from Jalisco in 1971, my great grandparents were Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Ferrel.

The LDS site has given me access to marriage records for Perfecto Picazo and a Quirina Gonzalez on 31 May 1876 in Encarnacion de Diaz. That marriage record indicates that Perfecto’s parents were Nicolas Picazo and Blaza de Anda, who were married in 1843 in Encarnacion de Diaz. Quirina Gonzalez’ parents were listed as Estanislao Gonzalez and Maria de la Merced Guzman. There is no further mention of Ferrel, so I don’t know where that names fits in. There is a marriage record for Geronimo Aguilera (b 1833 in Encarnacion de Diaz) and Augustina Luevano on 12 May 1858 in Aguascalientes. Petra was born in 1862 in El Senor Del Encino, Aguascalientes. There is one record for Quirino Cerbantes Peres (b 1834 Encarnacion de Diaz) that lists Gerardo Cerbantes and Rafaela Peres as his parents, but I do not know if those are the right ones. Names seem to change as I pursue records further back.

So far, my best results have come from the LDS Family Search site. I belong to Ancestry.com but their records are mostly European. Ancestry.com has been helpful in getting Census records of my father’s family up to the middle of the 1800s but the previous history must be in Catholic records, if they exist. I’ve also gotten DNA testing with the Family Tree DNA site, but even that has given limited information. If any of you have research that intersects with my surnames, I’ll be glad to exchange information.

Hello Mary and welcome to the group! My paternal grandfather is from the same area that you are researching (ranchos of Santa Maria, La Mololoa, Troje de Urquiola...) and I believe we have a few common ancestors.

Based on what I've found our most recent common ancestor line is as follows:

1. Marcos Perez and Maria Antonia Magdaleno aka Ursua, aka Dondiego married 20 April 1755 in Lagos de Moreno
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-24562-16?cc=1874591&wc…

2. Jose Alvino Perez and Maria Vicenta de Torres (parents Jose Guadalupe de Torres and Maria Narcisa de Aguilar) married 22 March 1801 in Encarnacion de Diaz
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-58110-13?cc=1874591&wc…

3. Maria Dorotea Rafaela Perez (born 26 January 1802 in Santa Maria) and Gerardo Cervantes (parents Jose Cervantes and Antonia Ramirez) married 10 November 1819 in Encarnacion de Diaz.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18524-5601-35?cc=1874591&wc=…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-55243-13?cc=1874591&wc…

4. Quirino Cervantes (baptized 15 January 1834, I did not find the baptism record it may have been recorded out of order) and Maria Agatona Escoto (parents Jose Urbano Escoto and Maria Salome Valdez aka Valadez) married 1 June 1855 in Encarnacion de Diaz
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGHZ-94D

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-30193-53?cc=1874591&wc…

5. Did not find information on Modesto Gonzalez but did find his siblings
a. Luis Cervantes (born 24 August 1867 in Santa Maria)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-4204-6?cc=1874591&wc=M…

b. Victoriana Cervantes (born 23 March 1870 in Santa Maria) and Bernardo Gonzalez (parents Jose Maria Gonzalez and Juliana Chavez). Family Search index has Victoriana incorrectly identified as a male. Victoriana's godparents Jose Maria de Leon and Paula Ornelas are my 2nd great grandparents.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-14200-18?cc=1874591&wc…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18559-6183-37?cc=1874591&wc=…

c. Nemesia Cervantes (born 30 October 1872 in Santa Maria)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-16164-63?cc=1874591&wc…

I post my research on the internet using WikiTree where you can find this information (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Cervantes-Family-Tree-133) and also what I have found for Filomeno Picasso's ancestry (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Picasso-Family-Tree-12). Let me know if you this information does not line up with what you have.

Best
Austin Perez

Susan Carmona

Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.

my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .

My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.

my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez

Susan Carmona

Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.

my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .

My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.

my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez

Mary:

Here are some siblings for your great-grandfather Perfecto Picazo:

Higinio Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 25 SEP 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1876 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 NOV 1870 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Victoriana Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 28 MAY 1873 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Martina Picazo - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 JAN 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico

As far as Quirino CERBANTES, there is another Quirino who is a possible candidate for your ancestor, given that he was married to Agatona SOTO in 1855. I would suggest you get Film No. 1155498 through a Family History Center and read the record which should list Quirino's and Agatona's parents, even though this information was not extracted into IGI.

QUIRINO CERBANTES ORTIS
Christening: 08 JAN 1821
La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
Father: YGNACIO CERBANTES
Mother: EDUVIGE ORTIS

So your experience is that the Family Centers have a lot more info? I may go by tomorrow.

Gracias!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: arturoramos

Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:05:59
To:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Picazos in Encarnacion de Diaz

Mary:

Here are some siblings for your great-grandfather Perfecto Picazo:

Higinio Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 25 SEP 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1876 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 NOV 1870 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Victoriana Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 28 MAY 1873 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Martina Picazo - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 JAN 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico

As far as Quirino CERBANTES, there is another Quirino who is a possible candidate for your ancestor, given that he was married to Agatona SOTO in 1855. I would suggest you get Film No. 1155498 through a Family History Center and read the record which should list Quirino's and Agatona's parents, even though this information was not extracted into IGI.

QUIRINO CERBANTES ORTIS
Christening: 08 JAN 1821
La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
Father: YGNACIO CERBANTES
Mother: EDUVIGE ORTIS

Sandra:

The family history centers themselves do not necessarily have more information, but they do allow you to order films from the Family History Library in Utah (and the even more massive collection at the LDS Genealogy Vault). The films are the actual microfilmed versions of the parish records from which the IGI and VRI were extracted by volunteers.

Inevitably, the extractions have less information than the actual records and often times the extractions are outright wrong, in that the volunteers misread the record or transposed names, etc.

So the moral of the story is... you should order films and look at the actual records. Beyond the information you will gather and verify, there is a genuine excitement that comes from seeing such old records with your ancestors names written in the script and language of the time.

They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective work!

Mary Reams
Tempe, Arizona

my GGG Grandfather was a twin and his twin had the same first name. Both
were Tadeo Diaz' it happened maybe not frequently but happened enough times.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

PicazoCervantes wrote:
> They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective work!
>
> Mary Reams
> Tempe, Arizona

I also had records from Jerez Zacatecas showing the same name, Juan Jose De la Cueva, with two different wives. I had begun to think he had a second family then I found a record where the second Juan Jose and his wife were godparents to the first Juan Jose and his wifes child, ruined what my imagination had decided had happened. I never found birth or baptism records for them for that time period so I don't know if they were twins or not. I have found at least 3 sets of twins with the same first name and I assumed that one was not expected to live. Guess I'd better stop assuming!
Linda in Everett

Joseph Puentes wrote:
my GGG Grandfather was a twin and his twin had the same first name. Both
were Tadeo Diaz' it happened maybe not frequently but happened enough times.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

PicazoCervantes wrote:
> They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective work!
>
> Mary Reams
> Tempe, Arizona

One of my ancestors, Josef Zaldivar, was married twice and had at least
two sons by his first wife who were named Jose or Josef and then
different middle names and my ancestor, his first son by his second
marriage, was named Juan Josef Zezario Zaldivar. I wonder who the
Zezario is whom he is named after--definitely NOT his padrino, who is
his uncle Pablo and his wife Ma. de la Encarnacion. Marge:)

On Dec 12, 2007, at 11:25 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

> I also had records from Jerez Zacatecas showing the same name, Juan
> Jose De la Cueva, with two different wives. I had begun to think he
> had a second family then I found a record where the second Juan Jose
> and his wife were godparents to the first Juan Jose and his wifes
> child, ruined what my imagination had decided had happened. I never
> found birth or baptism records for them for that time period so I
> don't know if they were twins or not. I have found at least 3 sets of
> twins with the same first name and I assumed that one was not expected
> to live. Guess I'd better stop assuming!
> Linda in Everett
>
> Joseph Puentes wrote:
> my GGG Grandfather was a twin and his twin had the same first name.
> Both
> were Tadeo Diaz' it happened maybe not frequently but happened enough
> times.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
>
>
>
> PicazoCervantes wrote:
>> They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or
>> had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have
>> to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective
>> work!
>>
>> Mary Reams
>> Tempe, Arizona

Mary:

Welcome to the group. I hope we can be of help here though it seems that you are pretty far along in your search and certainly have the right intuition in that in Mexico the Catholic church sacramental records are the key.

As far as your grandmother's name of Quirina Ferrel or Gonzalez, I would say that Ferrel was a second given name. I have seen the name Ferrer often appears as a second given name and the name Quirina is so unique that it must be the same Quirina. Probably names Quirina Ferrel Gonzalez Macias in current day standard Mexican naming convention, i.e First Given Name, Second Given Name, Paternal Surname, Maternal Surname.

It is important to note that there was a high level of illiteracy until the mid 1900s in Mexico and as such most people did not know how to spell their own last names. Furthermore, the Spanish language, particularly its spelling was not as standardized as it is today and thus even priests and certainly deacons, etc writing down records would write names as they heard them, often spelling them in very different ways. People when asked their names I would imagine often omitted the surname as they were not accustomed to using it and if they had two given names, the priests would take the second given name to be the surname or simply omit the surname as many lacked one altogether (especially indigenous people).

Some tips, when you get back far enough, marriage dispensations may come in handy. Also, the films section of the website will help you search the LDS databases using batch numbers which can be very useful as you can search with as little or as much information as you have on hand, i.e. with a mother's given name only, father's surname only or simply browse through all of the entries on an entire film.

We have many of the same first names in our lines, but so far nothing matches up. Although I have not pursued the Cervantes line or the Gonzalez lines extensively, I can be a some help. Try searching on Serbantes and Servantes as these are other variations that will yield very different results. My lines of Cervantes are in the areas of Tepatitlan and Jalostotitlan. If you find any Ledesma or Deledesma in your lines, let me know.

Welcome to the group. Everyone here has been very helpful to me with their gracious suggestions and new ideas. This helps so much, especially when I am stuck on something! Just a little while back I was trying to translate a marriage document and was having trouble with the meanings of a few words, when lo and behold there is a posting about Latin words used alongside the Spanish in some baptisms and matrimonies. I am sure you will enjoy all the information that is on this site and all the history and cultural lessons we have on our posts.

Welcome again and hope you enjoy!

Maureen

Maureen:

Thank you so much for your comment. I will look for different spellings of Cervantes. I've noted that spellings do change, depending on who does the recording. My own father changed his surname Bustos to Bustoz so it made it difficult to find his ancestors with that spelling. The problem solving and detective work is fun!

Mary Reams
Tempe, Arizona

Mary:

Just to give you an idea how they can write a name incorrectly, they wrote my great grandfather's name like this: Marts. when it is Martinez. So I suggest to even look for abreviations.

Sofia

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