Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi Sofía! I can help a bit on this subject. I've been told that priest had only started to list grandparents on baptisms ca. 1812. But not full affect until 1827 or so. It doesnt mean they were the first in México. The huge migration to México was in the 1500's. When Hernán Cortés conquered México. After 1821 the independence very few left ffrom Spain, since México was economically unstable.

TO view passenger list or atleast the info you can go to
http://pares.mcu.es

You can also order the microfilm for passanger lists. Usually its the same info as in the record on PARES. It's a wealth on info. I recently found out my mother's side of the family had a COat of Arms. Not those phonny ones you can buy on the interent, but an actually one given to us by King Charles V.And is there somewhere where I can search passenger lists of ships that arrived in Mexico? How to make the connection to Mexico and the country that they were originally from, Spain? There is a speculation that says all SPaniards are related because at least one line on every SPanish tree descends from D. Alfonso I, King of Asturias.
About the surnames. Martínez, Ramónez, Ramírez, Ruíz and Gómez, Muñóz are all patronímicos. Derived from the son of....like Martínez means the son of Martín. They usually changed every generation. but for some reason in ca. 1450 They ceased on creating new ones. So if José Fernández de Portugal. lets say. His ancestor who ignited his line of FErnandezes would have been Fernando de Portugal born ca. 1450. THey USUALLY go back to royalty based on my experience. one of my lines goes back to Fernando II "El Católico.

Note * not all -ez surnames are patronímicos.

Losano, Acosta, Aguílar, Peratra, Medina, Macías, Aráiza, Pacheco are all places, like cities.
Usually it was DE Losano or DE Medina.

Esparza came from Ruíz de Esparza, which is a huge family! Especially many rancho members including my self are related. Esparza is also a city in Pamplona, Spain, the Village of Esparza.

Davila was from De Avila. I guess it would have been d'Avila. Also a city in Castilla.

Zúñiga is also a city in Galicia, SPain.

Váldez is a city.

Not sure about Angel?
Maybe its connects to the church. Like Santa ANa.

De ANDA, is the another huge one. It is a apellido Alteña in Jalisco. It came origianlly in 1545 from Castilla. The original surname was Anda de Altamirano.

-Hope this helps!
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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I thought it was my computer giving me problems, thought maybe it wore out and I needed a new one. That very well may be, but it is good to know that it is an internet problem and not me. I do feel better about that. I have been very frustrated trying to get things to work and not having anything work out, especially when I tried to work on indexing and found I could not switch back and forth as needed. Thanks for the message.

Irene R. Sweet

----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2008 9:35:15 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Website Problems

I've noticed (because several of you have noticed) that the website is
experiencing some problems. Hang in there and hopefully things will sort
themselves out. Tomorrow is Sunday so go out and experience the mild
weather if you are on the East Coast and otherwise enjoy your day. Think
of our ancestors from so many generations past and how they might have
passed a day if they were having technical difficulties. I don't think
that my Great Grandmother Antonia Santa Maria (dob: 1862 in El Salitral,
Tepetongo, Zacatecas) could read but if she did needle work and somehow
her lantern wick or other part malfunctioned and she couldn't use it
maybe she would spend more time with one of her children possibly
telling stories by the woodstove fire. She might have told the story
about how an angel once helped her cross a raging river shortly after my
Grandmother (Virginia Diaz: dob: 1886, Las Animas, Santa Maria de Los
Angeles, Jalisco) was born after my GG grandmother Andrea Torres (dob:
1833, El Yngles, Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico) was very
very hard on her making her life miserable enough to run away back to
the place of her parents: Lucio Santa Maria and Cecilia Espinoza (dob:
~1825 marriage: 1844 Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico).

Or maybe my Grandmother Virginia Diaz would tell my father of the time
her husband my Grandfather, Julio Puente (dob: 1886, Las Animas, Santa
Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco) was frozen motionless one night as he
walked home from a neighbors house in the night after he was sure a
mountain lion was roaming very close to him. Or the story of how my
Great Grandfather Jose Julio de Jesus Puentes (dob: 1852, Las Animas,
Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco) died right in front of my
Grandfather holding an iron bar digging a small path for the water to
run away from the house they were in during a severe
rain/thunder/lightening storm by being struck by lightening.

Just some thoughts.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

So that I don't go sideways in my reading/response to your message, what database, internet site or source are you using to access the 1930 census?

Efrain Conrique
San Diego, California

At last! Someone who is looking for VIDAURRI!

Welcome, Gilbert, to Nuestros Ranchos.

My name is Veronica Vidaure Rahorn and I live in Gilbert, AZ. I believe that
you and I are related through this man:
Miguel VIDAURRI
Born 1806 in Rio Chico, Teocaltiche, Jalisco

Some time between 1806 and 1826, he moved to Paso de Sotos, JAL (now known
as Villa Hidalgo) and married a ggggreat aunt of mine. She died in 1836. A
few months later, he married my gggreat grandmother, but I think they had
already been having hanky panky because my gggreat grandfather Luis was born
before Miguel's first wife died. Lots of skeletons in this closet!

Anyway, I am waiting for my husband to get back on swing shift so I can
start spending more time at the local Mormon family history center. I plan
to work backwards from Miguel so I'll share my findings with you. I'd love
to figure out how Miguel and Chavelita are related. Do you have any
genealogy lines for her?

Some other questions: Did Chavelita come to Douglas with Celso? Where is Los
Osos, California?

Looking forward to sharing info with you!
Veronica Vidaure Rahorn
vrahorn@wydebeam.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilbert Keas"
To:
Sent: 23 January, 2008 15:05
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16503

> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16503
> RESEARCHING: Rodriquez-Vidaurri-Aguilera-Yniquez
>
>
>
>
> Greetings to members of Nuestros Ranchos:
>
> My name is Gilbert Keas [rhymes with Keys] and I live in Los Osos,
> California. My research at this early stage is focused on Teocaltiche,
> Jal.
> and Zacatecas, Zac.
>
> Here is a brief informal Descendancy Narative of my great-grandfather,
> Celso
> Rodriquez [through my grandfather, Candelario Rodriquez], from my mother's
> side of the family:
>
>
>
> Descendancy Narrative of Celso Rodriquez & Isabel Vidaurri
>
> I. Celso Rodriquez was born circa 1847. He married Ysabel "Chavelita"
> Vidaurri on 25 April, 1874 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. The children
> of
> Celso and Ysabel, may have consisted of seven boys and one girl. Their
> daughter may have died in childhood. After 1908, Celso may have
> immigrated
> to Douglas, Arizona, as did most of his sons, including Candelario and his
> immediate family.
>
> A. Ciriaco Rodriquez was born between 1875-1879 in Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco,
> Mexico.
>
> B. Camilo Rodriquez was born between 1875-1879 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco,
> Mexico.
>
> C. Apolinar Rodriquez was born between 1875-1879 in Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> D. Casimiro Rodriquez was born between 1875-1879 in Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> E. Candelario Rodriquez was born on 2 Feb 1879 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco,
> Mexico. He married Maria Refugia Aguilera [Daughter of Timoteo Aguilera
> and
> Refugia Yniguez] circa. 1897 in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Candelario
> died on 14 Nov 1941 in El Paso, Texas, at age 62. Candelario & Maria had
> ten
> children... the first three were born in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, the next
> four
> were born in Douglas, Arizona, the last three were born in El Paso, Texas.
>
>
>
> AGUILERA-YNIGUEZ NOTES:
>
> 1. Timoteo Aguilera & Refugia Yniguez were married on July 8, 1874 in
> Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> 2. Maria Refugia Aguilera was born on July 13, 1882, Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco,
> Mexico and died on May 10th, 1957, El Paso, Texas.
>
> 3. Two of Maria's brothers were Margarito and Francisco "Poncho"
> Aguilera.
>
> 4. Maria worked in the men's clothing store owned by her brother,
> Francisco
> Aguilera, either in Teocaltiche or Zacatecas.
>
>
>
> I hope to travel to Teocaltiche this June or July to walk the sod of my
> grandparents & great-grandparents and see what I can find in the way of
> family history [I'll be traveling with a friend who is fluent in
> Spanish...
> regrettably, I am not].
>
> I would like to find the locations of Teocaltiche's cemeteries while this
> trip is still in the planning stage.
>
> I look forward to any advise offered by fellow researchers and members of
> Nuestros Ranchos.
>
> Muchos Gracias,
>
> Gilbert
>

Welcome to the Nuestros Ranchos family, How exciting to hear so many members are going to Mexico!

I thought I'd share what I found in my trip to Mexico about cemeteries. Most are locked and you will need someone to let you in. Another thing I found was many old grave markers were wood so they no longer exist and there were not always records of where each person was buried. I also discovered not many people go to graveyards unless they have to! My host's found it strange I wanted to just walk and read headstones in them. Another older custom I discovered it they buried up to 5 people in one grave, they would move the bones to the foot of the grave and bury the next person. I found a family grave of a child of 7 years of age and saw something sticking out of the dirt, I pulled and a leg bone came up in my hands.. Obviously it was not the child buried in 1967.. I said a prayer and reburied the bone. My host's could only shake their heads.

The truly strange thing was seeing the surnames of the people I had been researching back to the 1600's. I almost felt them thanking me for remembering them.. it was an experience I had never had before but will never forget.

Linda in Everett

Gilbert Keas wrote:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16503
RESEARCHING: Rodriquez-Vidaurri-Aguilera-Yniquez

Greetings to members of Nuestros Ranchos:

My name is Gilbert Keas [rhymes with Keys] and I live in Los Osos,
California. My research at this early stage is focused on Teocaltiche, Jal.
and Zacatecas, Zac.

I hope to travel to Teocaltiche this June or July to walk the sod of my
grandparents & great-grandparents and see what I can find in the way of
family history [I’ll be traveling with a friend who is fluent in Spanish...
regrettably, I am not].

I would like to find the locations of Teocaltiche’s cemeteries while this
trip is still in the planning stage.

I look forward to any advise offered by fellow researchers and members of
Nuestros Ranchos.

Muchos Gracias,

Gilbert

Hi Linda!, its your primo Daniel. By the looks of this. Felipe Miranda is the declarante. Tomas Alvares is a 3rd cousin to Maria Mejia. Rafael Reveles is a third cousin nephew to Pedro. And Catarino is third cousin to Pedro Miranda. I do think Pedro and Maria Mejia were somewhat related since they both have two relatives of Reveles on both sides. SO that should state they some common anceestor. Ill look in the IGI and see what I can find! -Daniel Mendez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Evie, your Arch family is in Sayula, Cristobal Gaitan married in Tamazula 22 Sept 1882, #0226030 marriage record and I found a marriage record for Narciso Yglesias and Maria Trinidad Hernandez in Zapotiltic, 15 May 1878, #0225930 marriage record. Have you ordered these films from your family history center? If you did and they didn't give you the parents then I would suggest you order baptism film from the 2 or 3 following years after the marriages in Tamazula and Zapotiltic. They had children and with any luck you can find one of them there.. be patient and you will find them. Did you mean you couldn't find ancestors for them or decendents? I'm assuming you come from these lines?

Linda in Everett

EVIE1994 wrote:

I am been researching family ancestors, my g-g-g-g-grandfather's name is Angel Arch from Sayula married Mercedes Gutierres in 1848, but I have not been able to find any decendents...
The Arch family lived in "Hacienda De la Canada Taxunaxtla, Jalisco

Also, Cristoval Gaitan married Panfila Hernandez in 9/1882 Tamazula Jalisco...unable locate any other decendents.

Narciso Yglesias married Maria Trinidad in 1872, Tamazula, unable to locate any other desdendents

I was hoping if any of you had come accross any information.

According to family members, ancestors lived in Zapotiltic, Tamazula, Ciudad Guzman, Sayula and Villa de Tonila.

---------------------------------
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Evie, I am working records from Zapotlan El Grande/Ciudad Gusman, Tamazula de Gordiano and Zapotiltic but don't have any of the names you are looking for. I will watch for them in the future. I'm afraid the majority of my records are from an earlier date than you have listed. There are others in the group working these same towns in Jalisco. Jonathon Walker, Daniel Mendez and Mary Gervassi also have family records from there. You might want to check in the files section to see if any of the surnames you need are there.
Wish I could have been of some help to you..
good luck in your search,
Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

EVIE1994 wrote:

I am been researching family ancestors, my g-g-g-g-grandfather's name is Angel Arch from Sayula married Mercedes Gutierres in 1848, but I have not been able to find any decendents...
The Arch family lived in "Hacienda De la Canada Taxunaxtla, Jalisco

Also, Cristoval Gaitan married Panfila Hernandez in 9/1882 Tamazula Jalisco...unable locate any other decendents.

Narciso Yglesias married Maria Trinidad in 1872, Tamazula, unable to locate any other desdendents

I was hoping if any of you had come accross any information.

According to family members, ancestors lived in Zapotiltic, Tamazula, Ciudad Guzman, Sayula and Villa de Tonila.

You should be in contact with me and Linda Castañón! We 3rd cousins and most of our lines are in Tamazula and southern Jalisco! -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Hello group,
I learned something new this weekend at a Somos Primos meeting John Schmal hint, doing parent search in the IGI
MexicoFather: Angel Arch, Mother: Mercedes Exact Spelling: Off

Got:
Eloisa Ciriaca Arch Gutierres
Justo Federico de los Angeles
Ricardo Valentin
Enrique Placido
Angel Severiano de la Cruz

The other name the dates too new to be in IGI
Maria Guangorena
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: EVIEGAYTAN@YAHOO.COM> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:42:34 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames: Arch, Marin & Gaitan & Gonzales, Yglesias & Hernandez> >
_________________________________________________________________
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Dear Pam, Alicia & Ray,
Thanks for the information on the Jauregui family - I had no idea that the family line might have started in Nochistlan. I have had the pleasure to visit with family in Teocaltiche and Jalostitlan over the past 21 years however I only started to crave information on the family history last year. Hopefully I will be making another trip in August 2008 and will seek out the leads you have given me.
I look forward to hearing more interesting facts and leads that you three or any other history seeker may lead me to.

Judy Jauregui-Rodriguez

Corrine,

It would be great if you could transcribe your Rivera, etc. information into a Word file or Excel file and upload it to Rootsweb.com, to share with the world, then you could send a link to that file to Arturo at Nuestros Ranchos and he could add the file for use by our group.

I transcribed an old Mesilla, New Mexico census for 1843 for Rootsweb for those who had ancestors originating there. I also transcribed the 1860 census for El Paso County, TX for Rootsweb.

Joseph also has a group site called "Ciudad Chihuahua" on Yahoo where he originally had the Nuestros Ranchos site. The Ciudad Chihuahua site is really for Paso del Norte which is now Juarez, El Paso Valley, and Southern New Mexico.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Corrine Ardoin
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rivera and Martin Del Campo Surnames

Hi,

Someone recently joined who is researching surnames I am also researching.
Their message was in Spanish, so I hope they get the gist of this message.

I wanted to reply to them that I am also researching the Rivera and Martin
del Campo surnames in Jalisco. I have lots of records from births,
baptisms, marriages, etc. from Guadalajara, primarily for the 1800's. My
file title on this site, Nuestros Ranchos, does not mention the surname
Rivera, but if you look under my name, Corrine Ardoin, you will find a
family tree that contains these ancestors. My mother's great-grandmother
was Rita Robles Rivera, born about 1851 in Guadalajara. Rita's parent's
were Emigdio Robles and Manuela Rivera. They were married February 5,
1843. Manuela's parents were Alejo Rivera and Dolores Mora. They resided in
Guadalajara and attended the Sanctuario de Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe
Church. Manuela lived to be over 100 and died in the early 1900's. Rita
died in 1935.

This has brought up something else. I have so much "might be related" data
accumulated. Is there some way to make this available to other members? I
get a microfilm, record every entry that has the surname I am researching,
then it just sits in a folder. I would like to be able to share the data
with others, so perhaps they might find info there they could use. Such as
the surname Rivera. I have a lot of records with that surname, because it
is of my ancestors. But all of these records contain many, many other
surnames. How can I make this available to other members? I asked the
family history center where I live about getting all of this on the IGI, but
they said it is done only by church members who have submitted their family
trees. How do the rest of us make our research available where it does not
coincide with our own family trees, but may be useful to others?

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Pam,

I went to a wedding in Nochistlan in August of 2007. My first cousin who is also my God-daughter married into the Jauregui family of Nochistlan. I happened to meet and talk to a few of the Jauregui's and this family still has deep roots in this very old town, specifically in La Estancia of Nochistlan. Next time I go to Nochistlan it is my intention to visit La Estancia and gleen a bit more information. I don't know if it's fact or just lore but two of the Jauregui relations said that all the Jauregui's descend from one Jauregui. They say he was well to do back in his time and that as a result of his wealth and his prowess he had many children with many women in all of the surrounding regions and ranchos. Unfortunately I did not document any of this but they did invite me to come and visit again. I too have ancestors who were Jauregui.

My GG-grandmother was Maria Juana de Dios Jauregui married to Prudencio Olmos Esparza. They married on 14 January 1857 in Nochistlan Zacatecas.
She was the daughter of Hilario de Jauregui Robalcava and Maria Concepcion Olazaba from el Rancho de San Roque.
Hilario was the son of Vicente de Jauregui and Feliciana Robalcava also of el Rancho de San Roque which is in the municipio de Nochistlan.

I tried to tell them it was probably a different branch of Jaureguis because they came from a different rancho, but they proceeded to tell me that they had heard stories of their ancestor whom they claimed was the progenitor of most of the Jaureguis of that region. Again I repeat I don't have any documents that would substantiate this statment only oral stories.

Have you met with any relations from Nochistlan? or do you have many Jauregui family members in this area?

By the way, Nochistlan is only about 30 minutes from Teocaltiche Jalisco.

Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: Pam
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:52:51 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jauregui from Nochistlán , Zacatecas

I too am researching the Jauregui family and am early in my search.

Here is what I know:
Domingo JAUREGUI was born ca 1902 in Nochistlán,
Zacatecas. The family story is that he came from
Basque Spain. Domingo married Maria LOMELI
daughter of Leocadia and an unknown father
LOMELI. Maria LOMELI was born ca 1907 in
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. I do not have death
dates or places for Domingo or Maria. The couple
had 5 known children:

1. Maria de la Luz JAUREGUI born 30 Jun 1929 in
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. She married Jose
ITO ca Feb 1947 in Juarez, Chihuahua. Jose ITO's
parents were Minoru or Kaname ITO born ca 1886 in
Japan and his wife Enriqueta ACOSTA daughter of
Ambrosio ACOSTA and Josefa HERNANDEZ. Enriqueta
ACOSTA was born ca 1898 in Juarez, Chihuahua.
Ambrosio ACOSTA was born 1 Jan 1857 in Camargo,
Chihuahua.

2. Domingo JAUREGUI born ca 24 May 1931 in
Villa Obregon, Jalisco died in El Paso, Texas in
1996.

3. Ruben JAUREGUI born ca 1933 in Guadalajara, Jalisco.

4. Miguel JAUREGUI born ca 1935 in Guadalajara, Jalisco.

5. Raul JAUREGUI born ca 1937 in Guadalajara, Jalisco.

I would appreciate any help on this family.

Pamela in Berkeley, California

Hello Josie,

I haven't found any persons with the surname "Liendo". As to "de la Rosa"
I've found a the following, though it's difficult to know whether in these
cases "de la Rosa" es a surname or part of the christian name:

AGUILAR Pablo DE, indio, vecino de la feligresía de Jerez. Pretende contraer
matrimonio eclesiástico en Jerez con Inés de la Rosa, india, vecina de la
feligresía de Jerez. Testigos: 1.- Gregorio Pacheco, español, de 20 años de
edad, mercader y vecino de la villa de Jerez. A la pretensa conoce desde
pequeña en la casa del capitán Pedro Álvarez de Rón, en la que se ha criado
y conoce a él en dicha casa ha 5 años en la que asiste trabajando como
maestro de obraje. Firmó. Información matrimonial. Jerez, Zac. 8 de julio de
1700. Fojas:
AGUILAR PABLO DE, originario de Teocaltiche, el Grande. Viudo de Inés de la
Rosa. Casado y velado por el Bachiller don José de Osorio Melgarejo en la
iglesia parroquia de Jerez el 8 de mayo de 1720 con Inés Carlos, coyota,
originario del pueblo de Colotlán, hija legítima de Juan Carlos y de María
de La Cruz. Testigos: Antonio de Castañeda y Juan de Medrano. Foja: 115-115
vuelta

María de la Rosa, india, soltera, la cual hace mucho tiempo estaba tullida
en una cama. Murió en el rancho de La Calera, jurisdicción de Jerez, el 27
de julio de 1685. Se enterró de limosna en el hospital de la villa de Jerez.

Best regards,
Héctor

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Josie T.
Trevino
Enviado el: Miércoles, 23 de Enero de 2008 08:13 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] For Hector Felix Aizcorbe

Hello Hector,

I noticed in your response to Linda that you have a lot of info on
Jerez. Would you please check your data to see if you have anyone
with the surnames "LIENDO" and/or "DE LA ROSA".......these are my
direct ancestors and the time frame would be around the late 1600s or
early 1700s in Zacatecas.......I am not certain exactly where in
Zacatecas they were from but I believe it could be near the city of
Zacatecas or the area near there.

Any info you may have will certainly be appreciated.......I have been
looking for them for a very long time! :-)

Josie Trevino-Trevino

On Jan 23, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Héctor Felix Aizcorbe wrote:

Hi Linda,

I'm glad to have helped you clarifying your records. I've a lot of info on
Jerez. Count on it any time you might need something.

Regards,
hector

Hi, Eduardo:

I have some records from researching in microfilms that include people with the Alatorre surname. I will compile them and email those to you. I don't know how much of it will coincide with your research, but it might provide some useful information.

I also have the marriage record for Isabel and Isaac from parish records. I will try to email that to you, also.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

isabel cabral de 17 años, hija de benigno cabral y de pioquinta gonzalez se casa con isaac alatorre gonzalez el 16 de junio de 1890: juez civil.-don jose ibarra y leon
el 18 de junio de 1890 se casaron por la iglesia, por el sr. cura don ignacio diaz, con el permiso del sr. cura gorgonio alatorre, tio de isaac, padrinos arcadio alatorre y clotilde alatorre.
Por lo tanto Isabel nace en 1873 muere en 1954 aprox

isabel, madre de maria teresa, madre de ofelia, ofelia mi madre...eduardo alberto cardenas gomez.
arqui1@megared.net.mx

Alice good luck in your trip to the land of your ancestors. Go with an open mind and first and foremost enjoy walking the land they did.

I went to Mexico for the first time in 2003 hoping to find records at the church's and civil halls. I went to Jerez Zacatecas, Zapotlan El Grande/Ciudad Gusman, Zapotiltic and Tamazula Jalisco searching for my family records and we also went to El Limon Jalisco searching for records for another family member. We flew into Guadalajara and traveled by bus to all our destinations, wonderful bus system that is very safe and comfortable.

I did not know if I had any family still there since my father was the last of my family to go in 1936 except for my grandmother who went every 3 years until 1950 or so. To my surprise I did have family from my grandmothers side and they all knew I was coming from word of mouth from the relatives of one of my traveling companions. I did not know about the local customs or what was considered good manners in Mexico. I found what I wanted to go do and see was not what they had in mind for me. The records I searched for were not available even though I had seen them at the family history center in Everett Wa. Most places did not have copy machines and I was not allowed to touch the books. They were overworked and understaffed. What records I did find were not copies of the originals but form letters with dates and names written by the clerk. My hosts did not want to go to the cemetery, did not understand my genealogy quest and did their best to make me feel like I was
truly welcomed "back home." I found phone service very poor and in El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas there was only 2 or 3 phones in the entire rancho of abt 200 homes. Service was iffy so they shared and made appointments for phone use. Computer service was not good either. In Guadalajara even the phone service was not what we expect stateside. I was also surprised how few places accepted credit cards unless you were in large cities. We went to Manzanillo Colima, a tourist destination and found most shops only take cash. If you take a cab be sure to settle on the price before getting into the cab.

Would I do it again? ABSOLUTELY!! I meet wonderful people with stories of my family that I would never have known otherwise. I walked the same ground that some of my ancestors had walked since the 1600's, family left during the revolution in 1916. I learned to be proud and humbled by what I saw and heard. I spent 30 days in Mexico with the 10 days in Guadalajara staying with relatives of my traveling companions. I experienced on my trip dinner with people in absolutely poverty who were so proud to share their table with me and the hospitality of millionaires. I'm a better person for making the trip to reclaim my heritage and one day would love to be able to take that trip again with a better understanding of what to expect and what is expected of me.

Have a wonderful time,
Linda in Everett

AliceBB wrote:
Dear Leticia, Thank you so much for responding. Yours is a good idea to make a list of any possible leads from the phone books, while I'm there. If I find alot of Onates there, I'll obtain a copy of the book itself! Unfortunately, I have no living older relatives (that I know of) from which to get any guidance. So I really do appreicate your help. Being new to genealogy, I fully expected to get several responses from the experienced members of our group. For the past year I've read every email posted and I recall emails from others that have taken a similar trip and I hoped they could share tips for success. Again, my call for help goes out, and my thanks for your idea and well wishes. Alice BB

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All I can share is this: I was not raised by either side of my family
members.

So, when it came to the point of meeting both sides, I was amazed that I
looked like one side of the family, but had definite personality traits of the
other side.

Data helps...in my case, I can get a hint in small details that were
documented.

For example, my great grandmother was the only person in her town that
proudly (I am assuming) refuted Catholism. It is documented in the census. What
is this attributed to? Well, I have contacted family members, and each one
give their perspective.

What is reality? I will never know. But it does occur to me that the recent
"discovery" of Judaism in our family may have something to do with her
outward thwarting of what was considered the "norm". And then again, maybe the
family members oral historical recollection is "real". Who knows? The truth
may lie between having found a Torah imbedded within adobe walls, and the
legacy of our indigenous heritage, and our conquered heritage inherited by Spain.
After all, we are a people that were conquered and conquerors. Perspective
details truth....which continues to reveal itself to us.

All I can share with you is this: when I met this side of the family, I felt
a sense of "homecoming". I was one in union with them, even though we had
not grown up together. Such a feeling from my mother's side of the family was
never felt. Perhaps because I look so much like them, but my spirit turned
out to be like my father's side.

Nevertheless, it has been my experience that both sides welcome me with open
arms.....it is as if they are able to "see" something I can't. The Jewish
people have a name for it.....as a matter of fact, all do......it ranges from
"familia" to unknown words that have been lost to our culture.....

On the "flip" side, I have also experienced the wariness of those that have
been marginalized....they are understandably reluctant of "outsiders"....as we
are considered as such when not having been part of their "immediate"
reality.

How do we compensate for all of this? I don't know, except that we must
continue inm our quest for documentation....

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

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Hi Veronica,
What is your fathers name. I came across a Juvenal Viramontes that is the Ancestry Border Crossings. He was born in Jal. Zac, but it also states that his father's name is also Juvenal and that is mothers name is Carmen Mendez.

Yvonne

I don't think you should go into the Huanusco films yet... Because eventhough Los Soyates was like 5 mins from as Im told from Jalpa, it really borders it. Most Soyates people did go to Tabasco. -Dániel

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Did Juevenal Viramontes die in California? I have some info on this Juvenal not sure if it's him though?The records for Jalpa aren't SkimpY! THERE ALL IN TABASCO! As I know Jalpa wasn't always Jalpa, it used to be part of Huanusco and Tabasco. But later the GOv't made Jalpa its own municipio. There wasnt a church at the TIME! SO they had to build one. pre-that and even still records are in Tabasco or Huanusco.

Juvenal VIRAMONTES?

Birth Date:
27 Jul 1906

Death Date:
6 Apr 1989

Social Security Number:
550-96-0538

State or Territory Where Number Was Issued:
California
*You should start in the Jalpa films though, this can be used as a substitute if you ca't find any info
from the Jalpa films.Films for Catedral de Santa María de Mecatabasco, Tabasco, Zacatecas, México
Bautismos 1747-1776 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094622 ]Bautismos 1776-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094623 ]Bautismos 1793-1809 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094624 ]Bautismos 1809-1826 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094625 ]Bautismos 1826-1838 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094626 ]Bautismos 1838-1861 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094627 ]Bautismos 1861-1869 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094628 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1869-1873 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094629 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1873-1880 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094630 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1880-1889 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094631 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1889-1894 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094632 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1894-1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094633 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1900-1903 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094634 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1903-1907 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094635 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1907-1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094636 ]Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1912-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094637 ]Bautismos de hijos naturales 1859-1885 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094638 ]Bautismos de hijos naturales 1885-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094873 ]Confirmaciones 1868-1896,1901-1911,1916-1924 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094874 ]Matrimonios 1774-1782,1787-1835 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094875 ]Matrimonios 1835-1857,1862-1875 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094876 ]Matrimonios 1875-1894,1896-1901 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094877 ]Matrimonios 1901-1909 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094878 ]Matrimonios 1909-1920 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094879 ]Información matrimonial 1842-1848 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094880 ]Información matrimonial 1848-1854 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094881 ]Información matrimonial 1854-1856,1858-1863 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094882 ]Información matrimonial 1861-1868 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094883 ]Información matrimonial 1868-1872 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094884 ]Información matrimonial 1872-1874 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094885 ]Información matrimonial 1875-1877 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094886 ]Información matrimonial 1878-1882 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094887 ]Información matrimonial 1882-1886 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094888 ]Información matrimonial 1887-1890 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094889 ]Información matrimonial 1890-1897 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094890 ]Información matrimonial 1897-1898 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094891 ]Información matrimonial 1899 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094892 ]Información matrimonial 1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095010 ]Información matrimonial 1901 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095011 ]Información matrimonial 1902-1903 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095012 ]Información matrimonial 1903-1904 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095013 ]Información matrimonial 1904 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095014 ]Información matrimonial 1905 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095015 ]Información matrimonial 1906-1907 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095016 ]Información matrimonial 1908-1909 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095017 ]Información matrimonial 1910 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095135 ]Información matrimonial 1911-1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095136 ]Información matrimonial 1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095137 ]Información matrimonial 1913 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095138 ]Información matrimonial 1914-1916 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095139 ]Información matrimonial 1916-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095140 ]Información matrimonial 1918-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095141 ]Información matrimonial 1920-1921 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095142 ]Defunciones 1774-1788 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095143 ]Defunciones 1814-1833 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095144 ]Defunciones 1833-1853,1861-1868 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095145 ]Defunciones 1869-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095146 ]

Films for The Refugio Parish Capilla in Tabasco, (Same city different Church)
Información matrimonial 1864-1893 - FHL INTL Film [ 1506883 Items 3-6 ]Información matrimonial 1893-1917 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1506884 ]Información matrimonial 1917-1924, 1927 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1506935 Items 1-3 ]

-Dániel Méndez del Camino
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Veronica:

Welcome to the group. I am sure you will find plenty of people here willing to help.

As far as Jalpa records, you are correct in that they are skimpy. There appears to have been loss of most of the records probably in a war or a fire. If you do a search on the site, there are members who have been able to research genealogy and microhistory nevertheless.

I think given the approximate dates of the ancestors for whom you have details, you should be able to find some records. Jalpa does not appear to be indexed (given the late years and paucity of the records). So that means you will basically have to look through the films.

Your great-grandparents appear to have been born around 1880 and probably married around 1900 so their baptisms might not be in the church records, but your grandparents likely are. Many baptism records post-1820 or so and nearly all civil registry records include grandparents' names so your grandparents' baptisms/birth registry will list your great-grandparents and great-great grandparents' names.

Also your great grandparents' marriage records are likely in the informacion matrimonial films from Jalpa and those will likewise list your great-great-grandparents' names. In fact, because the informacion matrimonial goes back to 1864, you should be able to find even your great-great-grandparents' marriages from which you can get their parents' names. Then there is a 36 year gap which you may or may not be able to overcome but you can cross that bridge when you get to it... seems like you have plenty to work with for now.

From http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

JALPA CHURCH RECORDS
Bautismos 1909-1919 VAULT INTL Film 1158671
Confirmaciones 1880-1900 FHL INTL Film 1158672 Item 1
Información matrimonial 1864-1875 FHL INTL Film 1511832 Items 3-4
Información matrimonial 1874-1897 VAULT INTL Film 1511824
Información matrimonial 1898-1904 VAULT INTL Film 1511825
Información matrimonial 1905-1923 VAULT INTL Film 1511833
Información matrimonial 1923-1924 FHL INTL Film 1506870 Item 1
Información matrimonial 1944 FHL INTL Film 1158673 Item 3
Matrimonios 1827-1838, 1913-1918 FHL INTL Film 1158672 Items 2-4
Matrimonios 1917-1920 FHL INTL Film 1158673 Items 1-2
Defunciones 1814-1917 FHL INTL Film 1158673 Items 4-5

JALPA CIVIL REGISTRY
Nacimientos 1896-1898 VAULT INTL Film 773877
Nacimientos 1899-1902 VAULT INTL Film 773878
Nacimientos 1903-1905 VAULT INTL Film 773879
Nacimientos 1906-1909 VAULT INTL Film 773880

I have a number of Viramontes cousins within my family. They all seem to have come from Jalpa or Aguascalientes. As you may know yourself or if you visit Jalpa there is an abundance of Viramontes living there. My email is tehuima2@yahoo.com

Veronica Lopez wrote:
Hi,
my name is Veronica Lopez. My parents and most of my grandparents come from
JALPA, ZACATECAS. I understand from reading previous posts that the records
for that town are very skimpy.

My maternal grandfather's name was Juvenal VIRAMONTES. He had at least 3
siblings (Benjamin, Ramiro, Enriqueta) but from what I understand, they were
raised by an aunt and uncle. According to my mother's birth certificate, my
grandfather's father's name was Benjamin Viramontes and his mother's name
was Antonia RENTERIA.

My paternal grandmother's name was Concepcion MAGALLANES and she was the
daughter of Concepcion Magallanes (father) and Simona BECERRA. Simona's
father (my gg grandfather) was Lino BECERRA.

My paternal grandfather's name was Prudenciano LOPEZ, son of Anastacio Lopez
and Clara GONZALEZ.

Most of what I know is from my father's memory and most of what he remembers
(surprisingly well) are names of many cousins and aunts and uncles.

I'm not sure where to start, so I'd appreciate any help.

Veronica

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16506