Dr.mt

Parents of Diego de Lomelín (ca. 1668, husband of Gerónima de Liebana y Velasco)

Published by Lawrence Bouett –
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Genealogy Research

The line I am researching is heavily documented down to Diego de Lomelín and his wife, Gerónima de Liebana y Velasco, by many baptisms of their (at least) eight children between 1692 and 1715, and b

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola, Ronnie y Armando,

My thanks to both of you for responding to my post. I have seen Sanchiz Ruiz' pages on GeneaNet, but the Vasquez information is new to me. Documentation is critical here, of course, but I shall incorporate the information as a guide to future research.

Thanks again.

Saludos,
Lawrence Bouett

Comentario

Hola Lawrence , In "Jose luis Vazquez's book -Genealogia de Nochistlan- Chapter 28 page 96 there is a Diego Lomelin y Munoz Cabeza de Hermosillo. It states that Diego is the son of Joseph Lomeli y Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Micaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo. It does not say whom he married, I don't know if he is the one you are seeking.
Ronnie Reynoso

What Church Records?

Published by PappyRod –
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Genealogy Research

Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas?

Comentarios

Comentario

For Maria de la Torre you need to look in the Colotlan records. The
following page has two children being born in Maria de la Torre in the 1781
time period:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19361-27596-43?cc=1874591&wc…
3883

joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of rvr_jr@msn.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:23 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What Church Records?
>
> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of
Gertrudis Herrera
> born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas? I've looked through Momax
(that is where I
> found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success. There
seems to be quite a
> few options.
> TIA,
> Roy

Comentario

I have seen a Rancho de la Torre while going through the Tepetongo and Jerez church records.
I don't remember which one for sure.

Barbara
On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 AM, rvr_jr@msn.com wrote:

> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas? I've looked through Momax (that is where I found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success. There seems to be quite a few options.
> TIA,
> Roy

Comentario

I've seen rancho de Padre  Torre and rancho de la Torre in both Jerez and Tepetongo records so I would search in both if I were you.
Linda in Boulder City

________________________________
From: Barbara Andrews
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What Church Records?

I have seen a Rancho de la Torre while going through the Tepetongo and Jerez church records.
I don't remember which one for sure.

Barbara
On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 AM, rvr_jr@msn.com wrote:

> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas?  I've looked through Momax (that is where I found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success.  There seems to be quite a few options.
> TIA,
> Roy

Nuestros Ranchos Indexing Group

Published by MickeyGarcia –
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Genealogy Research

Joseph
I have done indexing directly. I would rather do
Jalisco/Zac/Aguas.....with you. How can I join?
Mickey

In a message dated 1/7/2013 2:41:28 P.M.

Comentarios

roots in late 1500s Morelia?

Published by Denise Hernand… –
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Genealogy Research

Roots in Michoacan, Morelia, 1500s

Hi

Found this amazing family tree in the Morelia records:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18784-15792-41?cc=1883388&wc…

From:

Comentarios

Comentario

I should have mentioned:

Starts with Don Jose Manuel de Santa Anna as the root (most recent individual) of the tree.

And - I know Michoacan is off topic, but I am following a lead on Petronila de Moctezuma, who possibly lived for a while in the area as a child.

Regards,
Denise

Comentario

Hi Victoriano

You are most welcome! I do realize that people moved around a lot, so perhaps someone in this forum has connections to the Morelia area...Michoacan borders on Jalisco, and Morelia lies between Guadalajara and Mexico City.

Regards
Denise

Comentario

Denise

In looking through the Spanish archives (PARES) for Moctzuma's descendants (and the elusive Petronila), I have found some trees like this. Occasionaly they would be in color, they were really quite amazing.

On the Petronila quest ...

The Codex Chimalpahin has an interesting statement concerning, apparently, five other children of Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma (he was the son of Diego Arias de Sotelo) without naming them. The Codex clearly states that there were 10 children (the first five are the names normally seen), and that the other's names are unknown; they were living in "Michhuacan" 2ith their father; "Michhuacan" I assume is Michoacan. See volume 2, pp. 107-111, "Lineage of the Valderrama de Moteuccumas". Have you seen this?

I never found Petronila in the pedigree charts that I found in PARES.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hello George

I had in fact seen a reference to this codex in one of your previous comments in this forum, and I have tried to get it through the Danish Library system, however, they will not send it. So it will have to wait until I can travel to Copenhagen (I live in Denmark). I have really enjoyed reading your contributions, and I appreciate your serious approach to research.

I have (for fun mostly) looked up some information in Pares bases on directions provided in this forum. Difficult, but I managed!

The search for info in Michoacan(Morelia, the large town near Tarimbaro) stems from my idea that if Diego Sotelos children were living on his (wifes) encomienda,which he stated during his trial for the Martin Cortes conspiracy, they might have been confirmed in a church there. The Spanish is hard for me to read, but I am hoping I would recognize the name Sotelo or Moctezuma if I saw it....

In any case, there ought to be some Sotelo de Moctezumas there somewhere, even if not Petronila. Two historical sources place the family there. If you want to take a look at the church records I am going through, let me know so we can coordinate it. There are supposedly a mix of docs including confirmations (which I havent yet found), starting in the 1550's of Morelia. 675 images in all...

Regards
Denise

Comentario

Denise

Denmark! The internet truly makes this a small world! I discern from your profile that Copenhagen is a pretty substantial journey for you.

There is a book on Michoacan families that has a moderate amount of information about the Sotelo family "scattered" throughout it. It is called: ANDARIEGOS Y POBLADORES. NUEVA ESPAÑA Y NUEVA GALICIA (SIGLO XVI).

You can download the entire book as a pdf. Just do a google search for "Andariegos y Pobladores." This should come up as the first item on the list. It is 666 pages and the book is fully searchable.

Although the focus is Michoacan, it does have information on families relevent to Los Altos.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George,

Thanks for the tip! I will get to it after work, the book is one I was not aware of. And you are right, I live as far in Copenhagen as you can get and still be in Denmark.

I just came back from the US with a couple of other books on early colonial Mexico (Nahuas and Spaniards; The Encomenderos of New Spain; P. de Fuentes' The Conquistadors). Right now, this is where my interest lies. Reading about this era has answered questions I had about the movements of people on my family tree. I am not descended from the Sotelo de Moctezuma family (so far as I know) but the mystery attached to Petronila caught my imagination.

Regards
Denise

Help reading a marriage Doc.=]

Published by abram101 –
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Genealogy Research

Iv'e been having such a hard time reading a marriage document of my ancestor Gertrudis Baez i can't quite read where she is from the letters are to bunched up to each other.Please if anyone can help

Comentarios

Comentario

Juan Gutiérrez de Hermosillo was the son of Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo and Catarina Cortes Delgadillo.

Another member of NR, Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez, is also looking for the parents of that same Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. See http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20067

The name Catarina (also spelled Catalina) Cortés Delgadillo is common. It seems there were at four women with the same full name from close to the same time period. One was the daughter of Diego Delgadillo and Petronila de Isla. The other was the daughter of Luis Delgadillo and Josefa de Isla. Another was the wife of Mateo de Rubalcava. The fourth was the wife of Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo.

Armando

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2013-01-06 10:23 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I think it says: "orig(a) de la Ciudad de Zacat(s)", with the letters in parenthesis appearing on superscript. Without abbreviations it should be "originaria de la Ciudad de Zacatecas", so I think she was from there.

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Victoriano,

Thank you so much for your assistance.I just have one more question so i have these ancestors from cuquio,jalisco and they got married in the year 1682, and the earliest they have on Familysearch is 1711?Any suggestions.

Comentario

Hi Abram,
The records might be in the books of a nearby parish if they didn't have a full time priest in the town and some priest form a nearby town had to go to perform marriages. You can keep checking on Familysearch every 6 months or so to see if they have already indexed some records with your ancestors. Besides that, you may look for them in the Guadalajaradispensas website, if they were related or if some of their descendants were related and got married, they may have some information about them.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

clarification please

Published by alicebb –
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Good Evening Grupo,
Hope all had a good holiday season.  A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
The link is to the "report" 

Comentarios

Comentario

Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:

...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...

Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.

Comentario

Gracias Luis, casi lo atine!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:57 AM, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:

> Luis Valdés
> algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
>
> ...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
>
> Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.

Comentario

Barbara and Luis,
Thank you very much.  Your help allowed me to get a better understanding of what was being said.
Alice

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:

From: valdesla@prodigy.net.mx
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:57 PM

Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:

...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...

Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.

Comentario

Hello Alice,

I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.

...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...

Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.

On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Good Evening Grupo,
> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
> Thank you so much for all your help.
> Alice Blake

Comentario

Hello Barbara,
Thanks so much for your response.  Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means.  Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning?  At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher?  Very confusing.  I appreciate your effort.  Alice
 

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:

From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM

Hello Alice,

I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given.  I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.

...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...

Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.

On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Good Evening Grupo,
> Hope all had a good holiday season.  A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741.  I'd like  help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195.  Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather.  I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned. 
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
> Thank you so much for all your help.
> Alice Blake

Comentario

Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole. He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.

Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today. However, I believe that to be the gist of what is meant.

Good Luck
On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Hello Barbara,
> Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning? At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher? Very confusing. I appreciate your effort. Alice
>
>
> --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
>
>
> From: Barbara Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
>
>
> Hello Alice,
>
> I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
>
> ...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
>
> Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Good Evening Grupo,
>> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
>> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
>> Thank you so much for all your help.
>> Alice Blake

Comentario

Thank you so much, Barbara.  It's good to know I'm on the right track.   Alice

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:

From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 6:29 AM

Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole.  He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.

Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today.  However, I believe that to be the gist of what is meant.

Good Luck
On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Hello Barbara,
> Thanks so much for your response.  Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means.  Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning?  At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher?  Very confusing.  I appreciate your effort.  Alice
> 
>
> --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
>
>
> From: Barbara Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
>
>
> Hello Alice,
>
> I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given.  I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
>
> ...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
>
> Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Good Evening Grupo,
>> Hope all had a good holiday season.  A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
>> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741.  I'd like  help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195.  Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather.  I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned. 
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
>> Thank you so much for all your help.
>> Alice Blake

Two recent 'brick walls': José Navarro and Juana Flores, and Perfecto Gonzalez

Published by Lawrence Bouett –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have had extraordinary success in conducting research on a friend's (primarily) Jalisco genealogy, much of it back to the late 16th- and early 17th-Centuries; but there remain several brick walls th

Comentarios

Comentario

Since you have been stumped for more than a year and a half, this is where autosomal tests could come in handy. They provide a list of matches to autosomal DNA. Everyone in the list is a relative, the downside is that they don't always have a completed tree and they don't always respond. However, sometimes they just don't know how to complete their tree and since you know how to do that then you might find the connection between them. Sometimes it might be along a line you already have completed, but if it isn't then it is probably one the missing ancestors' line. I can provide you personal examples if you would like to see them.

The three companies are -

Family Finder with FamilyTreeDNA (highest response rate)

Ancestry.com DNA test (Genetic Ethnicity can be way off. Medium response rate)

23andme.com (Lowest response rate. No information on the match is available unless they respond. It has the best ethnicity breakdown)

Information in parenthesis is per the info found in the following two links -

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-12/135…

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/12/comparing-admixture-test-…

Regards,
Armando

Comentario

Armando,

Thank you for the suggestion; I hadn't really thought so much about DNA testing. The line I am researching is that of a friend in Los Angeles, both of whose parents are from Guadalajara—hence, my Jalisco interest. My own line includes only 3/16 'Californio'—from México, Costa Rica, Spain, and Venezuela, but it is that line with which I identify most closely in my own genealogy. (My Costa Rican 2X-great-grandparents founded a community in Los Angeles that is still thriving and active.)

I will suggest the DNA route to my friend to gauge her interest; that may be a way to overcome one or more of the current brick walls.

Saludos,
Lawrence

Comentario

for jose navarro & juana flores, this what i could find on familysearch
https://familysearch.org/search/records/results#count=20&query=%2Bfathe…

by the way the cities of ponictlan, and ocotlan are nearby zapotlan el rey
http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/pres.htm
you find those three cities in the region 4 map.

not sure how to help you on the perfecto gonzales lineage

Comentario

Thank you for the tip; the births in that FamilySearch search, however, are 35–40 years too early, since Macedonia Navarro's age at her marriage in 1884 was given as 20 years, which makes her birth year about 1864.

Lawrence Bouett

Arturo Gonzales Web Page

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Members,

http://www.arturogonzalez.com/OurFamilies/persons.html

Does anyone know the owner of this website? I am interested because he has a few of my ancestors in his information.

Comentarios

Cuachala

Published by MariaCortez –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Juan,

The dish you describe sounds exactly like a recipe my Dad and Aunt taught
me how to make. Only they called it "Mole de Rancho".

Comentarios

Published by juancarrillo (no verificado) – Dom, 2012-12-30 00:00 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I just sent a posting and forgot to put a subject heading. It should read
"Cuachala". Sorry. Can it be added?
Juan Manuel Carrillo

A Technical Question of the Personal Ancestral File (PAF) use.

Published by Jorge Elias –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am trying to print reports (in files) of the data base i have starting with my 6th grand father.

Comentarios

Comentario

Jorge

There could be a couple of issues.

One might be the word processor you are using, or perhaps the version.

If you are using the current PC version of Word, after saving the file, press the ¶ button to show the spaces, paragraph marks, and so on. You should then see the control codes for building the index if you are using Word.

Then use the Word command to insert the index. You may have to work with the formatting to make it look nice.

A better way to go would be to use PAF Companion. This does a better job of formatting the reports. You will have to buy this; the PAF and PAF Companion software used to cost about $10 on CD, but I think you can also down load it for the same price.

PAF Companion launches either from within PAF, or can be run separately.

PAF Companion also prints nice charts. I have made charts as large as 3 ft x 3 ft, saved them as pdf files and then had them printed on a large format printer at Kinko and the UPS Store.

PAF and PAF Companion are not as sophisticated as the newer software (and there is not a MAC version that works like the PC version), but for $10 it is hard to beat.

On the MAC, this software runs OK on Virtual PC, but is only a little slower.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Chicken With Oranges

Published by Alicat_2025 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am interested in that recipe. My ancestors are from San Juan de los Lagos, and I don't have any recipes from that area. Please share. It does sound Spanish, with the almonds and all.

Comentarios

Comentario

Here is a recipe I found online:

http://www.canalcocina.es/receta/pollo-la-naranja-con-almendras

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:44:04 -0800
> From: alice_wissing@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chicken With Oranges
>
> I am interested in that recipe. My ancestors are from San Juan de los Lagos, and I don't have any recipes from that area. Please share. It does sound Spanish, with the almonds and all.

Comentario

Could you e-mail me the recipe too? Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rmcneal103@msn.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 06:14:41 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chicken with oranges
>
> Alice I emailed you the recipe please let me know if you get it.

Comentario

Hello Emilie,

I am looking for descendants and ancestors of Ricardo Puente - I think
it's Ricardo Obispo de la Puente born about 1783 presumeably in
Zacatecas although one record says Piedras Moradas. He was married to
Simona de la Cruz (Alemán?) who seems to have used several surnames.
Children are some or all of the following: Diego Antonio, Narciso,
Gregoria, Deonicia, Gregorio, Francisco, and Juan Bautista, all born
in various parts of Zacatecas and San Luis Potosí including San
Sebastián Venado SLP, Matancillas Zac, San Miguel Mezquitic SLP, San
Matías Sierra de Pinos Zac, San Gerónimo Moctezuma SLP.

My particular ancestor is Diego Antonio de la Puente. His children
were born in Chorillo Sombrerete Zac, Tecomates Río Verde SLP,
Matancillas, and probably Ojuelos Jalisco. The whole family seems to
be scattered around a lot and I suspect they worked in the mines.

If anyone recognizes any of these names I'd like to hear from you.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Comentario

Well this looks like the same couple since the location is right but the
date of 1770 makes born in 1783 seem not correct especially since several of
the children you named were born between 1775-1791:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20446-45872-60?cc=1860864…
1680507

Film 0707980v4pp5,6 image 13

Please keep me in the loop on this research as I'd like to see if this
family of Puente might be related to my Puente's line which also had a
connection to Sombrerete during the same time period:

Ancestors of Jose Cipriano Puente Sanchez

Generation 1

1. Jose Cipriano Puente Sanchez1, 2, son of Justo Puente Placencia and
Maria Josefa Gregoria Sanchez Temino was born about 17883. He married Maria
Eduarda Torres Marquez, daughter of Pedro Torres and Maria_Gertrudis
Marquez. She was born about 1789. She died on 03 Oct 1825 in Santa Maria de
Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico4. He married Maria de m Luz Ensiso Romero on 18
May 1826 in Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico5, daughter of Pedro
Ensiso and Maria Coronada Romero.

Generation 2

2. Justo Puente Placencia1, 6, son of Antonio Puente and Anna Placencia was
born about 1749 in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico7. He married Maria Josefa
Gregoria Sanchez Temino on 18 Dec 1793 in Sombrerete, Zacatecas, Mexico.

3. Maria Josefa Gregoria Sanchez Temino1, daughter of Antonio Sanchez
and Maria_Guadalupe Temino was born about 1754 in Fresnillo, Zacatecas,
Mexico8.

Maria Josefa Gregoria Sanchez Temino and Justo Puente Placencia had the
following children:

1. i. Jose Cipriano Puente Sanchez was born about 17883. He married
Maria Eduarda Torres Marquez, daughter of Pedro Torres and Maria_Gertrudis
Marquez. She was born about 1789. She died on 03 Oct 1825 in Santa Maria de
Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico4. He married Maria de m Luz Ensiso Romero on 18
May 1826 in Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico5, daughter of Pedro
Ensiso and Maria Coronada Romero.

ii. Juan Ygnacio Puente Sanchez was born on 24 Jun 1794 in Sombrerete,
Zacatecas.

iii. Jose Agapito de la Trinidad Puente Sanchez was born on 09 Mar 1798
in Sombrerete, Zacatecas.

iv. Mariano Bentura Puente Sanchez9 was born on 18 Nov 1799 in
Sombrerete, Zacatecas. He married Maria Guadalupe Ramirez Torres, daughter
of Ygnacio Ramirez Resa and Maria Mathiana Torres Marquez.

v. Maria Gertrudis Puente Sanchez10 was born about 180711. She married
Jose Antonio Ochoa Marquez, son of Jose Juan Ochoa and Maria Josefa Marquez.

Generation 3

4. Antonio Puente was born between 1700-1735 in possibly Zacatecas,
Zacatecas, Mexico. He married Anna Placencia.

5. Anna Placencia was born between 1710-1735 in possibly Zacatecas,
Zacatecas, Mexico.

Anna Placencia and Antonio Puente had the following child:

2. i. Justo Puente Placencia was born about 1749 in Zacatecas,
Zacatecas, Mexico7. He married Maria Josefa Gregoria Sanchez Temino on 18
Dec 1793 in Sombrerete, Zacatecas, Mexico, daughter of Antonio Sanchez and
Maria_Guadalupe Temino. She was born about 1754 in Fresnillo, Zacatecas,
Mexico8. He married Maria_Francisca Castaneda.

6. Antonio Sanchez was born in possibly Fresnillo, Zacatecas, Mexico.
He married

Maria_Guadalupe Temino.

7. Maria_Guadalupe Temino was born in possibly Fresnillo, Zacatecas,
Mexico.

Maria_Guadalupe Temino and Antonio Sanchez had the following child:

3. i. Maria Josefa Gregoria Sanchez Temino was born about 1754 in
Fresnillo, Zacatecas, Mexico8. She married Justo Puente Placencia on 18 Dec
1793 in Sombrerete, Zacatecas, Mexico, son of Antonio Puente and Anna
Placencia. He was born about 1749 in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico7.

Sources

Sources (con't)

1 LDS Film; Bautismos; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
1158273v4(1Feb1819). Baptism record for Josse Cecilio Puente-parents: Josse
Sipriano Puente y Maria Lugarda de la Torre. Abuelos Paternos: Justo Puente
y Josefa Sanchez. Abuelos Maternos: Pedro de la Torre y Maria Gertrudis
Marquez.
2 LDS Film; Bautismos; Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico,
0443686p102/601(24July1870). Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico; Baptism record for
Jose Trinidad Puente-parents: Juan Jose Puente y Micaela Romero. Paternal
grandparents: Cipriano Puente y Maria Luz Enciso. Maternal grandparents:
Felix Romero y Barbara Almeida.

3 LDS Film; Matrimonios; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
1158281v2p127. Marriage record for Jose Maria Torres and Maria Guadalupe
Diaz. Cipriano Puente is one of the testators and is listed as being 49
years old.

4 LDS Film; Difuntos; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
1158292(3Oct1825). Death record for Maria Eduarda de la Torre, 36 years old
daughter of Pedro Torres y Maria Gertrudis Marquez.

5 LDS Film; Matrimonios; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
1158281(18May1826). Marriage record for Cipriano Puente (viudo de Eduarda
Torres) and Maria de la Luz Enciso (Pedro Ensiso y Corona Romero).

6 LDS Film, 0443677v17(7Jul1802). Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico; Baptism
record for Maria Ramona Puente-parents: Mariano Puente y Maria Guadalupe
Ramirez. Grandparents: Justo Puente y Maria Josefa Sanchez.

7 LDS Film; Padrone; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
0168809. Padron (Census) of 1817 for the Colotlan Jurisdiction of Santa
Maria de Los Angeles. Justo's age listed as 68 - Josefa's as 63.

8 LDS Film; Padrone, Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
0168809. Padron (Census) of 1817 for the Colotlan Jurisdiction of Santa
Maria de Los Angeles. Justo's age listed as 68 - Josefa's as 63.

9 LDS Film, 0443677v17(7Jul1802). Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico; Baptism
record for Maria Ramona Puente-parents: Mariano Puente/Maria Guadalupe
Ramirez.

10 LDS Film; Bautismos; Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico,
1158274v5(1Oct1826). Baptism record for Maria Damiana Ochoa-parents: Jose
Antonio Ochoa y Maria Gertrudis Puente. Paternal Grandparents: Jose Juan de
Ochoa y Maria Josefa Marquez. Maternal Grandparents: Justo Puente y Maria
Josefa Sanchez.

11 film 168809 1817 Census of Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco,
Mexico. film 168809 1817 Census of Santa Maria de Los Angeles, Jalisco,
Mexico states that Maria Gertrudis Puente was 10 years of age.

============

On another topic do you happen to know anyone who currently wears the
surname Puente or Puentes who is related to your line of Puente? If so let's
do a YDNA check with my results.

Take care and Merry Christmas,

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Armstrong
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:39 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ricardo Puente
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> I am looking for descendants and ancestors of Ricardo Puente - I think
it's Ricardo
> Obispo de la Puente born about 1783 presumeably in Zacatecas
although one record
> says Piedras Moradas. He was married to Simona de la Cruz (Alemán?) who
seems to
> have used several surnames.
> Children are some or all of the following: Diego Antonio, Narciso,
Gregoria, Deonicia,
> Gregorio, Francisco, and Juan Bautista, all born in various parts of
Zacatecas and San
> Luis Potosí including San Sebastián Venado SLP, Matancillas Zac, San
Miguel
> Mezquitic SLP, San Matías Sierra de Pinos Zac, San Gerónimo Moctezuma SLP.
>
> My particular ancestor is Diego Antonio de la Puente. His children
were born in
> Chorillo Sombrerete Zac, Tecomates Río Verde SLP, Matancillas, and
probably
> Ojuelos Jalisco. The whole family seems to be scattered around a lot and I
suspect they
> worked in the mines.
>
> If anyone recognizes any of these names I'd like to hear from you.
> --
> Best regards,
> Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
>

Historical Foods

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Joseph

Comentarios

Comentario

My grandmother use to make a dish called pollo con naranjas, it was great with chicken, oranges, onion, almonds and the spices were cinamon, cloves, salt pepper and saffron. my mother told that this dish was something that her grandmother also made.

Comentario

From the ingredients, this appears to be a spanish dish, meaning from Spain. Where did your mother grow up and where was her grandmother from?

Alicia,
Northern California

________________________________
From: "rmcneal103@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:33 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical Foods

My grandmother use to make a dish called pollo con naranjas, it was great with chicken, oranges, onion, almonds and the spices were cinamon, cloves, salt pepper and saffron. my mother told that this dish was something the her grandmother also made.

Comentario

Alicia,

I thought the same thing, that this dish is Spanish, probably the southern part of Spain where Arabs are numerous and they cook a lot with oranges (Valencias?) and almonds. I have read that in some parts of Mexico, people brought Moorish-inspired foods to the New World.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 22:13:05 -0800
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical Foods
>
> From the ingredients, this appears to be a spanish dish, meaning from Spain. Where did your mother grow up and where was her grandmother from?
>
> Alicia,
> Northern California
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "rmcneal103@msn.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:33 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical Foods
>
> My grandmother use to make a dish called pollo con naranjas, it was great with chicken, oranges, onion, almonds and the spices were cinamon, cloves, salt pepper and saffron. my mother told that this dish was something the her grandmother also made.

Comentario

My mother and father met and married in San Francisco, CA. They were both
young people arriving with a parent: my mother with her widowed mother when
she was eight in 1920 and my father with my grandfather in 1925 when my
father was sixteen. After having two daughters my father returned in 1940
with the family to his hometown of Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco. I was
born there along with my younger sister. It was there that my mother
learned to make Cuachala. I miss my mother's making of this special dish
(we do have her handwritten recipe somewhere). Cuachala has as its main
ingredients (as I remember), gallina, boiled and shredded (she said never a
pollo, always a hen), masa, chili flakes and the rest I do not remember. It
is served in bowls as a thick broth (like atole). She claimed it was a dish
inigenous to Tamazula and the region. I don't know if that part is a fact.
Any other cuachala aficionados?
Juan Carrillo

Comentario

Juan,

I never heard of this dish (chicken stew, southern Jalisco style). It sounds good. I looked for a recipe and I found this one:

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/3857-jalisco-style-chicken-stew-cuac…

I will be making this soon.

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:25:13 -0800
> From: rcafartista@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical foods
>
> My mother and father met and married in San Francisco, CA. They were both
> young people arriving with a parent: my mother with her widowed mother when
> she was eight in 1920 and my father with my grandfather in 1925 when my
> father was sixteen. After having two daughters my father returned in 1940
> with the family to his hometown of Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco. I was
> born there along with my younger sister. It was there that my mother
> learned to make Cuachala. I miss my mother's making of this special dish
> (we do have her handwritten recipe somewhere). Cuachala has as its main
> ingredients (as I remember), gallina, boiled and shredded (she said never a
> pollo, always a hen), masa, chili flakes and the rest I do not remember. It
> is served in bowls as a thick broth (like atole). She claimed it was a dish
> inigenous to Tamazula and the region. I don't know if that part is a fact.
> Any other cuachala aficionados?
> Juan Carrillo

Comentario

Juan I just noticed you said you grew up in Tamazula.. Did you know any of the Mendez Family, they had a casa de cambio there. I visited them in 2003 but they were very afraid of us since we were strangers.. When I got back home I found out he had been kidnapped for ransom a while before.. his name was Ramon Mendez married to Edeina Torres, they my gr-grandmothers family. What a small world again!
Linda Castanon-Long

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical foods

Juan,

I never heard of this dish (chicken stew, southern Jalisco style).  It sounds good.  I looked for a recipe and I found this one:

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/3857-jalisco-style-chicken-stew-cuac…

I will be making this soon.

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:25:13 -0800
> From: rcafartista@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Historical foods
>
> My mother and father met and married in San Francisco, CA. They were both
> young people arriving with a parent: my mother with her widowed mother when
> she was eight in 1920 and my father with my grandfather in 1925 when my
> father was sixteen. After having two daughters my father returned in 1940
> with the family to his hometown of Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco. I was
> born there along with my younger sister. It was there that my mother
> learned to make Cuachala. I miss my mother's making of this special dish
> (we do have her handwritten recipe somewhere). Cuachala has as its main
> ingredients (as I remember), gallina, boiled and shredded (she said never a
> pollo, always a hen), masa, chili flakes and the rest I do not remember. It
> is served in bowls as a thick broth (like atole). She claimed it was a dish
> inigenous to Tamazula and the region. I don't know if that part is a fact.
> Any other cuachala aficionados?
> Juan Carrillo

Merry Chirstmas & Happy New Year

Published by Pat Silva Corbera –
Foros
Genealogy Research

To all my new found cousins and friends that share the love of learning about their ancestors,

Tino and I wish you "all," a Very Merry Christmas and A Happy and Healthy New Year...

I will be

Comentarios

Comentario

Pat,

Thank you pat and thanks to all the members who have helped with my family ancestry appreciate it alot.Merry Christmas=]

Comentario

and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU!  and a Safe HAPPY NEW YEAR!
It does seem like we are all "primos"  and closely related....
Thank you Pat.  Enjoy!

Ann M. Gutierrez

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Sent: Sat, December 22, 2012 12:43:39 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Merry Chirstmas & Happy New Year

To all my new found cousins and friends that share the love of learning about
their ancestors,

Tino and I wish you "all,"  a Very Merry Christmas and A Happy and Healthy New
Year...

I will be back online after the holidays...

May the Good Lord Bless you and your families!

Hugs and Love,

Pat and Tino Corbera

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