Nuestros Ranchos Site

Natalie,

We share more in common than I originally thought. You and I have discussed our shared interest in Valparaiso and El Astillero. Now you bring up La Noria de San Panteleon and the other side of my family, Salas. Please look at the pictures on our nuestros ranchos website, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14252, regarding La Noria. The common denominator, as near as I can figure, is mining and silver.

In March 2005 I traveled from Zacatecas, Zacatecas to visit La Noria de San Panteleon, located approximately 15 km NW of Sombrerete. The Iglesia of La Noria de San Panteleon is pictured in the above link. The name La Noria itself refers to the water well which is also pictured in the link above.

As has been mentioned in previous responses to your question, Don and Doña refer to people with money, power, or Spain (españoles). I have seen La Noria and I can assure you that if anybody from La Noria were referred to as Don or Doña they were very likely to have had money or were true españoles, or reasonable equivalents of such.

My great grandfather , Agustin Salas, had a sexual relationship with Manuela Castro, I repeat Castro, resulting in the "natural" birth of my grandfather, Bernardo Salas. I would be happy to share the picture I have of a Castro cemetery head rest from La Noria, if you desire. I have very little information on my Salas family from La Noria other than to say that Salas is not an unfamiliar surname in the greater La Noria de San Panteleon area. For what it is worth, Agustin and his father, Pedro, were not referred to as Don even though my grandfather was described as fair and blue-eyed. Who knows how these Don things really worked. My oral family history of Agustin Salas and his family is that they were "from Spain," whatever that means. I am beginning to think it means nothing.

Please contact me via my personal email, ed@serros.net, regarding the Castor picture. It may or may not be your Castro family but it may interest you.

Ed

Natalie, your question is one of the reasons I like to work on both civil birth and marriage records and church baptism and church marriage records, sometimes they are years apart for the same person. I know my gr-grandmother was baptized a year before her birth is recorded in the civil record which makes her appear a year younger. I don't think they could have baptized her before she was born and yes, it is the same person. Also the civil and church marriages are sometimes years apart. I noticed when I did the 1930 census for Jerez Zacatecas one of the questions they asked was if they were married both in the church and by the court, not everyone was married in the church much to my surprise. A civil marriage was required by law.

When I was in El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas in 2003 I went to a family wedding in the church in El Durazno, after the wedding everyone went to the brides home for the reception but the bridal party went to Jerez to get married in a civil ceremony required by law. They arrived at the reception 2 hours later. I was told they were leaving for the states the following day and that's why the civil marriage on the same day.

True to old customs the groom had to prove he could support his bride before her parents allowed the wedding.. He was age 36, working construction in the states and the bride was 18 and living with her parents. The grooms family paid for the wedding, reception and Mariachi's at the church, music at the reception and the band at the plaza for the wedding dance.

Linda in Everett

nc_coleman wrote

QUESTION: On this film, in the first part, though identified as baptismal records, seem to be CIVIL birth records/ civil presentation - the wording is different, just not like the baptismal records. In these records I found a record of a child I believe is a collateral ancestor. However, when I looked for a baptismal record for the corresponding child/date - I didn't find one (I will have to check again to make sure I didn't overlook it). HAS ANYONE else run into this situation?

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Natalie:

You can find some history on Sombrerete by going to:

http://www.zacatecas.gob.mx/Municipios/SombreHist.html

The link is in the Links section of the site under Municipios de Zacatecas. This was a very important stopover on the Camino Real de Adentro from Mexico City to New Mexico and an important silver mining center.

A Noria is literally a water wheel for a mill. When they say "nacio en la Noria", I am pretty certrain they mean that he was born in the Rancho known as "la Noria" (de San Pantaleon). The priests often abbreviate names of Ranchos like that, e.g. "La Mesa de los Gonzalez" becomes "La Mesa" and "La Labor de San Buenaventura" becomes "La Labor" or "La Laborcita" etc. There is likewise probably a rancho named "El Mineral de ???"

hola ELISE

Maybe we are connected in some blood line. Go to my tree in the section in this site. Right now I am in Lagos De Moreno and will be till may of this year.
I have those surnames in my mother´s line. I am in a rancho so not much time available for computer tasks. In may we could be in mail contact. In the rootsweb site is my tree also maybe you could check under the surname of cossyleon which is my father´s line surname. So long prima!

elise29 escribió:

My great-grandfather is from Arandas, Jalisco.

His maternal grandmother Ana Maria Zabala Alfaro, born ~1780. Her siblings were all born in Arandas or Ayo el Chico. Her parents were Jose Rafael Zabala Rivas and Maria Victoria Francisca Alfaro Sanchez, married in 1770 in Ayo el Chico. Rafael's parents were Martin Zabala and Maria Gertrudis Rivas. His siblings also appear to have been born in Ayo el Chico.

Please contact me if you have any information on these surnames.

Thanks,

Elise

i meant jornalero... sorry for the mispelling. As for
the origins, I know Federico Lorca uses the word a lot
in his play, La Casa de Bernarda Alba, so it must be
of old Spanish origin. But I'm glad you found out
what you needed to=)

Lavaniya

--- longsjourney wrote:

>
>
> I've found a new (for me) job or job discription
> which my translator does not give an explanation
> for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
> of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this
> word in earlier job discriptions. Is anyone familiar
> with this word or it's translation from Spanish to
> English?
>
> thanks, Linda in Everett

Gañan? I'm pretty sure it's the equivalent of
joranlero, or day laborer. Hope that helps.

Lavaniya

--- longsjourney wrote:

>
>
> I've found a new (for me) job or job discription
> which my translator does not give an explanation
> for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
> of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this
> word in earlier job discriptions. Is anyone familiar
> with this word or it's translation from Spanish to
> English?
>
> thanks, Linda in Everett

Ganan (gañán) in Spanish means "mozo de labranza", according to the
Diccionotary of the Spanish Royal Academy. In English I guess it would be
farm labourer.
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: longsjourney
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] translation
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>I've found a new (for me) job or job discription which my translator does
>not give an explanation for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
>of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this word in earlier job
>discriptions. Is anyone familiar with this word or it's translation from
>Spanish to English?
>
>thanks, Linda in Everett

Hello Natalie:
A few weeks ago, I would have joined your "pitty party".
For years, I had researched a Castaneda line, back to about 1665, I had about 400 names, and had followed the names of the grandmothers, and their lines.

Well over a year ago, I sent a copy of my records to Angie, from this group, who caught a discrepancy. Well, between procrastination, and not wanting to start again at ground zero, much time elapsed. After ordering new film, I realized I had been "Barking Up The Wrong Tree".

Perhaps, with my new Castaneda line, I will find a connection with
Joseph.

I know what you mean with so many having the same name. Found this situation when I was attempting to make a connection with Esperanza (from Chicago land) with our Herrera and Luna lines.
Esperanza is such an extraordinary lady, I will take her as a cousin connection or not.

I am full of stories, but will save them for another time. So for now..do not give up...keep on researching. Just put it out into the group hopefully, someone will have an answer.
Helyn

nc_coleman wrote:

NOTE: I know the word Research is in the subject, but this not so much a research comment as a comment on genealogy in general.
I have had the time and opportunity to view/review some films at the local FHC the past few weeks, and as I extracted information and tried to analyze it, realizing that a lot of it may or may not be for my family members, I also realized that I needed to look at old pieces of information from years ago.
So I was looking (again) at information extracted from the 1920 US Census, the first census on which any of my family (the ones from Zacatecas) would have appeared. I am having 2nd thoughts about family groups that I thought were related, as my recollections of family members is mostly confined to my nuclear family - I knew and recalled very few of my father's 1st cousins (primos-hermanos), and therefore can't trace those families forward in order to find someone to ask family questions. Add to that the fact that so many people have the same name - trying to sort them out is a nightmare. Alas, my father (the family elder) died the year before the 1920 census was released, and though he imparted a great deal of information in the form of names, I am frequently unsure if I have the right individual/family.

Well - enough of my pity party - I hope your research is going more smoothly.
BTW, these are the films I am currently reviewing and from which I am extracting information regarding the following family surnames.
SURNAMES: CASTRO, DUENAS, GARCIA (Direct Line; trying to stay focused on these for the time being).
FILMS: # 1164727 - Valparaiso: Reg. Parroquiales - Bautismos, 1868-1870
# 1164741 - Valparaiso: Reg. Parroquiales - Inform. Matrimonial, 1878-1892
# 0604817 - Sombrerete: Reg. Parroquiales - Bautismos, 1863-1869
# 0654983 - Sombrerete: Reg. Parroquiales - Matrimonios, 1793 1854

Have a great weekend - don't forget to change those clocks!!

Natalie in VA

Joseph,

That link took me to the Islamic Republic News Agency site, to an article about a brazier found in Iran, I guess. I don't see anything about Mexico in that site.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] 29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Source: IRNA (15 March 2007)
http://tinyurl.com/3385lg

29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Mexican archaeologists found more than 100 bodies in 29 different
pre-Hispanic tombs dating back about 2,000 years in Nayarit. Raúl
Barrera, who leads the archaeological project for the National
Institute of Anthropology and History, or INAH, said most of the
remains belonged to women between the ages of 35 and 40.
Archaeologists have not yet been able to determine which civilization
the remains are from, although they know the find dates back to the
period 200 BCE to 600 CE.
The tombs - located in vertical chambers - were in a type of
burial ground found in Nayarit, Colima, Michoacán, Zacatecas and
parts of Jalisco, but they have not been found in Mesoamerica. The
tombs have, however, been found in Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela,
Barrera said, noting that there may have been cultural and trade
links between the regions. Artifacts from these countries have been
discovered on the coast of Nayarit, he said. This type of tomb may
have signified some type of a "return to the womb of Mother Earth,"
the archaeologist said.
The content of the tombs varied depending on the social status
of the individual, since "they held the belief that in making the
crossing to the next life the dead person needed certain items for
the journey," Barrera said. Archaeologists found figurines of
warriors, ball players, pregnant women and animals in the tombs, as
well as vessels and various types of jewelry. Barrera said the sites
contained only burial grounds and no dwellings, which may have been
located on mountains or other locations at higher altitudes. Of the
29 tombs, 28 were found at the La Playa site and the other was at Las
Lagunillas. Only 12 were still intact, the others having been looted
at some point. The actual digging and recovery work lasted four years.

Emilie:

It looks like the RRB FOIA site merely mentions that release of individual records is restricted. That does not necessarily mean that records of deceased individuals are off limits, merely that release of individual records may be denied, e.g. in case the person is still alive or someone were to request non-historical value records.

The privacy act referenced on that page specifically requires all Federal Agencies to determine which records might be of historical value and preserve them or have the National Archives preserve them.

I will look into the Ancestry RRB records next time I am at my family history center.

Hey Joseph,

I know Arnoldo through email correspondence. He and I share the same Carreon and Miramontes families. We're probably like 4 or 5 cousins or something...

Anyway, you just have a typo in his email address.

I will email you in private with the actual address.

Talk to you later,
Angie Godina

I'm not familiar with Rootsmagic but I'm thinking that the
recommendation to get PAF was in case you weren't using any genealogy
software. Probably if rootsmagic does reports and allows you to organize
your data it might be good enough. But maybe others in the group that
are familiar with this program can comment.

for those IGI or VRI buttons go to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/films/Jalisco/1024

and look under the heading "Indicies" and you'll see the buttons Arturo
referred to.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Rosa Ana wrote:
> Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your valuable
> suggestions. I felt that I was in a dead end trying to locate my
> mother's family since the information that I have is very limited. I
> am using rootsmagic software, do you still recommend me to use the PAF
> software. I foud how to search for films, but I have not found the
> IGI or VRI buttons. Thank you very much for your help, Rosa
>
>> From: arturoramos
>> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Welcome Rosa
>> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>
>> Rosa:
>>
>> Welcome to the group. As a new genealogist, I would suggest you
>> begin by getting some software. PAF is put out by LDS for free and
>> is very good software. It is imperative to keep very good records,
>> including sources, from the onset.
>>
>> Next, I would suggest going to the "Films" section and finding the
>> relevant municipalities to see if they are indexed in the LDS
>> databases. If they are you will see "IGI" or "VRI" buttons next to
>> the film number and description. Clicking on the button will give
>> you the full contents of the film which you can then delimit by
>> surname, first name, etc. Arandas, for example, is fully indexed so
>> if you have the names of your great-grandparents you should be able
>> to find their marriage and/or baptism certificates.
>>
>> Next, you should find your nearest family history center and order
>> the relevant films where you know or suspect your ancestors
>> information is listed. Indices are often wrong so it is worth
>> verifying and even when they are correct, the actual record has much
>> more information than what is extracted for the index.
>>
>> You should also browse or search through the user profiles and see if
>> others are researching your towns or surnames. Many of us have found
>> relatives through this group.
>>
>> It is also useful to download the Nuestros Ranchos user guide which
>> you will find in the "Files" "Reference Materials" section of the site.
>>
>> Good luck.

Sorry I've been out of touch her lately and as I get busier probably
will be more out of touch. what is happening on the 17th? Are you all
going to have a another get together in Sacramento or someplace else? If
so please take pictures and notes and send us a a summation of the
meeting afterwards.

have fun. . .wish I was closer but hope to meet you all one day.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

dlmitch wrote:
>
> My name is Irma Romo Mitchell. My husband and I have just recently become Nuestros Members. My husband is the geneology guru. I just happen to be his Hispanic / Mexican American wife - maiden named Romo from the Romo De Vivar from Spain then Mexico.
>
> Dave is "Un Gotita" Spanish form around the year 700, however his love for the culture, food, tequilas, and beer amazes me. Just kidding - his love for family history is genuine and we Thank you for welcoming us into your email family. See you on March 17, 2007.
>
> Signed,
>
> Mrs "Un Gotita"

You are correct. Jalpa's records are skimpy because of civil unrest, etc. I
did not know about Nochistlan. Also the state capital of Zacatecas should
have records from the municipalities, however, the capital was also affected by
fires, etc....oh boy so much unrest. Hopefully, it will have some missing
links. I will also check the films you mentioned. I am going to Jalpa next for
a wedding so I will see how much info I can get. Thanks for the tips.



**************************************
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The "link" below is to an article i posted on the subject. I ran into this while during research to understand why, how my grandfather moved to Iowa.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15836

---------------------------------
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Rosa:

Welcome to the group. As a new genealogist, I would suggest you begin by getting some software. PAF is put out by LDS for free and is very good software. It is imperative to keep very good records, including sources, from the onset.

Next, I would suggest going to the "Films" section and finding the relevant municipalities to see if they are indexed in the LDS databases. If they are you will see "IGI" or "VRI" buttons next to the film number and description. Clicking on the button will give you the full contents of the film which you can then delimit by surname, first name, etc. Arandas, for example, is fully indexed so if you have the names of your great-grandparents you should be able to find their marriage and/or baptism certificates.

Next, you should find your nearest family history center and order the relevant films where you know or suspect your ancestors information is listed. Indices are often wrong so it is worth verifying and even when they are correct, the actual record has much more information than what is extracted for the index.

You should also browse or search through the user profiles and see if others are researching your towns or surnames. Many of us have found relatives through this group.

It is also useful to download the Nuestros Ranchos user guide which you will find in the "Files" "Reference Materials" section of the site.

Good luck.