Dr.mt

Sombrerete and other questions RE: readingdocuments

Published by thudplt2 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Natalie,

I am not researching the Sombrete area however in response to your questions perhaps I can help a little.

The title of the film you are reviewing tells me it is of baptismal records of the church of San Pantaleon. It is possible the film contains entries from other smaller out lying churches under San Pantaleon. I have found similar instances where the same person is recorded in two locations within the same parish. I can only surmise the smaller church records were systematically transcribed into the main parish records. This would centralize information making the periodic inspection of records conducted by the church simpler, meaning the Bishop did not have to visit every little church on his visitation trips.

Comments

Published by Edward Serros – Fri, 2007-03-23 20:36 | Permalink

Comment

Natalie,

We share more in common than I originally thought. You and I have discussed our shared interest in Valparaiso and El Astillero. Now you bring up La Noria de San Panteleon and the other side of my family, Salas. Please look at the pictures on our nuestros ranchos website, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14252, regarding La Noria. The common denominator, as near as I can figure, is mining and silver.

In March 2005 I traveled from Zacatecas, Zacatecas to visit La Noria de San Panteleon, located approximately 15 km NW of Sombrerete. The Iglesia of La Noria de San Panteleon is pictured in the above link. The name La Noria itself refers to the water well which is also pictured in the link above.

As has been mentioned in previous responses to your question, Don and Doña refer to people with money, power, or Spain (españoles). I have seen La Noria and I can assure you that if anybody from La Noria were referred to as Don or Doña they were very likely to have had money or were true españoles, or reasonable equivalents of such.

My great grandfather , Agustin Salas, had a sexual relationship with Manuela Castro, I repeat Castro, resulting in the "natural" birth of my grandfather, Bernardo Salas. I would be happy to share the picture I have of a Castro cemetery head rest from La Noria, if you desire. I have very little information on my Salas family from La Noria other than to say that Salas is not an unfamiliar surname in the greater La Noria de San Panteleon area. For what it is worth, Agustin and his father, Pedro, were not referred to as Don even though my grandfather was described as fair and blue-eyed. Who knows how these Don things really worked. My oral family history of Agustin Salas and his family is that they were "from Spain," whatever that means. I am beginning to think it means nothing.

Please contact me via my personal email, ed@serros.net, regarding the Castor picture. It may or may not be your Castro family but it may interest you.

Ed

Sombrerete and other questions RE: reading documents

Published by nc_coleman –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have been viewing LDS Film # 0604817 - "Registros Parroquiales - San Juan Bautisita, Sombrerete; Bautismos, 1863-1869". I am searching for children whose father is surnamed CASTRO or DUENAS (~ over N); also 'natural' children born to mothers with either surname. I do this in hopes of finding a connection to link what I know to the unknown.

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Fri, 2007-03-23 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

Natalie, your question is one of the reasons I like to work on both civil birth and marriage records and church baptism and church marriage records, sometimes they are years apart for the same person. I know my gr-grandmother was baptized a year before her birth is recorded in the civil record which makes her appear a year younger. I don't think they could have baptized her before she was born and yes, it is the same person. Also the civil and church marriages are sometimes years apart. I noticed when I did the 1930 census for Jerez Zacatecas one of the questions they asked was if they were married both in the church and by the court, not everyone was married in the church much to my surprise. A civil marriage was required by law.

When I was in El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas in 2003 I went to a family wedding in the church in El Durazno, after the wedding everyone went to the brides home for the reception but the bridal party went to Jerez to get married in a civil ceremony required by law. They arrived at the reception 2 hours later. I was told they were leaving for the states the following day and that's why the civil marriage on the same day.

True to old customs the groom had to prove he could support his bride before her parents allowed the wedding.. He was age 36, working construction in the states and the bride was 18 and living with her parents. The grooms family paid for the wedding, reception and Mariachi's at the church, music at the reception and the band at the plaza for the wedding dance.

Linda in Everett

nc_coleman wrote

QUESTION: On this film, in the first part, though identified as baptismal records, seem to be CIVIL birth records/ civil presentation - the wording is different, just not like the baptismal records. In these records I found a record of a child I believe is a collateral ancestor. However, when I looked for a baptismal record for the corresponding child/date - I didn't find one (I will have to check again to make sure I didn't overlook it). HAS ANYONE else run into this situation?

---------------------------------
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Comment

Natalie your message seemed pretty logical.

Usually when Don or Doña were used it meant they were people of respect, had money or elders in the community or all of the above.
If you were a peasant and did not have money, even though you were elder they would not use the term "Don" or "Doña".

I hope this helps.
Alicia

Comment

I also heard they used Don and Dona to distinguish the Spanish from the "natives".
But it is true that is certainly still in use today as a gesture of respect, regardless of class.
I remember my dad being called Don Ubence in the 40's, even though he was visibly not
"pure" Spanish.

Juanita

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
QUESTION: When/why are the titles of Don and Dona (~ over n) used?

Natalie your message seemed pretty logical.

Usually when Don or Doña were used it meant they were people of respect, had money or elders in the community or all of the above.
If you were a peasant and did not have money, even though you were elder they would not use the term "Don" or "Doña".

I hope this helps.
Alicia

Published by arturoramos – Fri, 2007-03-23 11:07 | Permalink

Comment

Natalie:

You can find some history on Sombrerete by going to:

http://www.zacatecas.gob.mx/Municipios/SombreHist.html

The link is in the Links section of the site under Municipios de Zacatecas. This was a very important stopover on the Camino Real de Adentro from Mexico City to New Mexico and an important silver mining center.

A Noria is literally a water wheel for a mill. When they say "nacio en la Noria", I am pretty certrain they mean that he was born in the Rancho known as "la Noria" (de San Pantaleon). The priests often abbreviate names of Ranchos like that, e.g. "La Mesa de los Gonzalez" becomes "La Mesa" and "La Labor de San Buenaventura" becomes "La Labor" or "La Laborcita" etc. There is likewise probably a rancho named "El Mineral de ???"

Latino Friends

Published by gnzlzspd –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I am sure this list can be made longer...

REGULAR FRIENDS vs. LATINO FRIENDS!!!

REGULAR FRIENDS: Never askfor food.
LATINOFRIENDS: Are the reason you have food.

REGULAR FRIENDS: Will say"hello."

Mariana Ruiz de Anda

Published by Jose Humberto Suarez –

Hola:

Entre mis ancestros tengo a Mariana Ruiz de Anda casada el 2 de julio de 1656 en Santa María de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno con Nicolás de Pedroza. Para ninguno he dado con los padres aunque estoy tratando de ver si hay alguna conección con un matrimonio entre Juan de Anda Altamirano y Juana Ruiz de Nava, en el que tienen una hija circa 1629 y se llama Mariana de Anda Altamirano.

Comments

Published by Jose Humberto Suarez – Tue, 2006-08-01 09:24 | Permalink

Comment

I haven´t found if there is relation for Mariana Ruiz de Anda with Juan de Anda Altamirano and Juana Ruiz de Nava. On the other side I´m trying to find out where Nicolas de Pedroza comes from. Anyone has info on this?

Best Regards
Jose Humberto Suarez

Todavia no he encontrado si hay relacion de Mariana Ruiz de Anda con el matrimonio formado por Juan de Anda Altamirano y Juana Ruiz de Nava. Por otro lado estoy tratando de buscar el lugar de origen de Nicolas de Pedroza. Alguien tiene informacion en eso?

Saludos
Jose Humberto Suarez

Comment

Hola José Humberto,

Vi tu posting y también tengo varios ancestros con los apellidos que tu estás investigando. De la familia De Anda tengo la investigación de toda mi línea hasta el capitán Pedro de Anda, sin embargo no tengo información de sus otros hijos, sólo de las líneas de las que provengo. Revisaré los datos que tengo y si encuentro algo con gusto te lo haré saber. Mis ancestros son del área de Teocaltiche, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalostotitlán, San Miguel el Alto, Lagos de Moreno y San Juan de los Lagos.

Saludos,

Alfonso González

Comment

Hola Jose Humberto, me fascino ver tu árbol, somos parientes relativamente cercanos. Soy bisnieto de Juan Ysidro Moreno Gómez, vía su hija Higinia Moreno Orozco, su nieta Margarita Fernandez Moreno y yo Francisco Herrera Fernández. Así que somos creo que primos 4os.
Referente a los padres de Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado:
-Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado hijo del Capitán Francisco Alvarez Tostado (n.1655) casado en 1672 en Jalostotitlán con Ana Ramirez de Mendoza.
-Francisco a su vez es hijo de Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado (1615-8/4/1683) y María Francisca de Nava y Cuevas.
-Lorenzo es hijo de Juan Álvarez (1591-13/8/1672) y Beatriz Tostado (n. circa 1595) casados circa 1614 en teocaltiche, jal.
-Juan es hijo de Lorenzo Alvarez y Agustina de Viera
-Beatriz tostado es hija de Lorenzo Ruiz Tostado y Elena Martinez

Espero que te sean de utilidad estos datos.

Yo sig tratando de rastrear las ascendencia de los abuelos de Juan de Dios Moreno y Maldonado. Sólo he desarrollado la línea de la madre de maría manuela maldonado y moreno hasta sus bisabuelos. Crees tener información sobre estas líneas?
un abrazo
paco herrera

Comment

Primo:

Hola, perdón por tardar tanto en responder. Acerca de lo que comentas de las líneas Moreno y Maldonado no he tenido mucha suerte. De los Moreno de ortega tengo algo pero no logro contectarlos con los que estan a principios del siglo XVII. De los maldonado estoy todavía un poco mas lejos. He querido solicitar un film pero la verdad no he tenido nada de tiempo, mi trabajo absorbe todo mi tiempo. Pero ya saldrá algo.

Saludos y que estes bien.
tu primo José Humberto Suárez V.

Zabala or Zavala, Arandas and Ayo el Chico, Jalisco 1700s

Published by elise29 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

My great-grandfather is from Arandas, Jalisco.

His maternal grandmother Ana Maria Zabala Alfaro, born ~1780. Her siblings were all born in Arandas or Ayo el Chico. Her parents were Jose Rafael Zabala Rivas and Maria Victoria Francisca Alfaro Sanchez, married in 1770 in Ayo el Chico. Rafael's parents were Martin Zabala and Maria Gertrudis Rivas. His siblings also appear to have been born in Ayo el Chico.

Comments

Published by Marionicia – Thu, 2007-03-22 10:45 | Permalink

Comment

hola ELISE

Maybe we are connected in some blood line. Go to my tree in the section in this site. Right now I am in Lagos De Moreno and will be till may of this year.
I have those surnames in my mother´s line. I am in a rancho so not much time available for computer tasks. In may we could be in mail contact. In the rootsweb site is my tree also maybe you could check under the surname of cossyleon which is my father´s line surname. So long prima!

elise29 escribió:

My great-grandfather is from Arandas, Jalisco.

His maternal grandmother Ana Maria Zabala Alfaro, born ~1780. Her siblings were all born in Arandas or Ayo el Chico. Her parents were Jose Rafael Zabala Rivas and Maria Victoria Francisca Alfaro Sanchez, married in 1770 in Ayo el Chico. Rafael's parents were Martin Zabala and Maria Gertrudis Rivas. His siblings also appear to have been born in Ayo el Chico.

Please contact me if you have any information on these surnames.

Thanks,

Elise

translation

Published by longsjourney –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I've found a new (for me) job or job discription which my translator does not give an explanation for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this word in earlier job discriptions. Is anyone familiar with this word or it's translation from Spanish to English?

Comments

Published by chula801 – Wed, 2007-03-21 14:30 | Permalink

Comment

i meant jornalero... sorry for the mispelling. As for
the origins, I know Federico Lorca uses the word a lot
in his play, La Casa de Bernarda Alba, so it must be
of old Spanish origin. But I'm glad you found out
what you needed to=)

Lavaniya

--- longsjourney wrote:

>
>
> I've found a new (for me) job or job discription
> which my translator does not give an explanation
> for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
> of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this
> word in earlier job discriptions. Is anyone familiar
> with this word or it's translation from Spanish to
> English?
>
> thanks, Linda in Everett

Published by chula801 – Wed, 2007-03-21 08:45 | Permalink

Comment

Gañan? I'm pretty sure it's the equivalent of
joranlero, or day laborer. Hope that helps.

Lavaniya

--- longsjourney wrote:

>
>
> I've found a new (for me) job or job discription
> which my translator does not give an explanation
> for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
> of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this
> word in earlier job discriptions. Is anyone familiar
> with this word or it's translation from Spanish to
> English?
>
> thanks, Linda in Everett

Published by hfaizcorbe – Wed, 2007-03-21 08:00 | Permalink

Comment

Ganan (gañán) in Spanish means "mozo de labranza", according to the
Diccionotary of the Spanish Royal Academy. In English I guess it would be
farm labourer.
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: longsjourney
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] translation
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>I've found a new (for me) job or job discription which my translator does
>not give an explanation for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
>of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this word in earlier job
>discriptions. Is anyone familiar with this word or it's translation from
>Spanish to English?
>
>thanks, Linda in Everett

Published by longsjourney – Wed, 2007-03-21 08:30 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Hector, the mystery is now solved. Wonder why they went from labrador to ganan?
LInda in Everett

Hector Felix Aizcorbe wrote:
Ganan (gañán) in Spanish means "mozo de labranza", according to the
Diccionotary of the Spanish Royal Academy. In English I guess it would be
farm labourer.
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: longsjourney
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] translation
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>I've found a new (for me) job or job discription which my translator does
>not give an explanation for. The word is "ganan" and it is the occupation
>of many from Jerez during 1886, I have not seen this word in earlier job
>discriptions. Is anyone familiar with this word or it's translation from
>Spanish to English?
>
>thanks, Linda in Everett

Re-evaluating the research

Published by nc_coleman –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

NOTE: I know the word Research is in the subject, but this not so much a research comment as a comment on genealogy in general.
I have had the time and opportunity to view/review some films at the local FHC the past few weeks, and as I extracted information and tried to analyze it, realizing that a lot of it may or may not be for my family members, I also realized that I needed to look at old pieces of information from years ago.

Comments

Published by mistyriver123 – Tue, 2007-03-20 11:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Natalie:
A few weeks ago, I would have joined your "pitty party".
For years, I had researched a Castaneda line, back to about 1665, I had about 400 names, and had followed the names of the grandmothers, and their lines.

Well over a year ago, I sent a copy of my records to Angie, from this group, who caught a discrepancy. Well, between procrastination, and not wanting to start again at ground zero, much time elapsed. After ordering new film, I realized I had been "Barking Up The Wrong Tree".

Perhaps, with my new Castaneda line, I will find a connection with
Joseph.

I know what you mean with so many having the same name. Found this situation when I was attempting to make a connection with Esperanza (from Chicago land) with our Herrera and Luna lines.
Esperanza is such an extraordinary lady, I will take her as a cousin connection or not.

I am full of stories, but will save them for another time. So for now..do not give up...keep on researching. Just put it out into the group hopefully, someone will have an answer.
Helyn

nc_coleman wrote:

NOTE: I know the word Research is in the subject, but this not so much a research comment as a comment on genealogy in general.
I have had the time and opportunity to view/review some films at the local FHC the past few weeks, and as I extracted information and tried to analyze it, realizing that a lot of it may or may not be for my family members, I also realized that I needed to look at old pieces of information from years ago.
So I was looking (again) at information extracted from the 1920 US Census, the first census on which any of my family (the ones from Zacatecas) would have appeared. I am having 2nd thoughts about family groups that I thought were related, as my recollections of family members is mostly confined to my nuclear family - I knew and recalled very few of my father's 1st cousins (primos-hermanos), and therefore can't trace those families forward in order to find someone to ask family questions. Add to that the fact that so many people have the same name - trying to sort them out is a nightmare. Alas, my father (the family elder) died the year before the 1920 census was released, and though he imparted a great deal of information in the form of names, I am frequently unsure if I have the right individual/family.

Well - enough of my pity party - I hope your research is going more smoothly.
BTW, these are the films I am currently reviewing and from which I am extracting information regarding the following family surnames.
SURNAMES: CASTRO, DUENAS, GARCIA (Direct Line; trying to stay focused on these for the time being).
FILMS: # 1164727 - Valparaiso: Reg. Parroquiales - Bautismos, 1868-1870
# 1164741 - Valparaiso: Reg. Parroquiales - Inform. Matrimonial, 1878-1892
# 0604817 - Sombrerete: Reg. Parroquiales - Bautismos, 1863-1869
# 0654983 - Sombrerete: Reg. Parroquiales - Matrimonios, 1793 1854

Have a great weekend - don't forget to change those clocks!!

Natalie in VA

Comment

Helyn, like you and others I've followed the wrong line on occasion too but have decided it wasn't a waste, I have the info that may help someone else in a group like this! It's disapointing to work on a line for a long time and then discover they don't belong within our family group but I never delete any record from my files in the hopes that I can help someone who's just starting or doesn't have the time or ability yet to do the many records out there. I also really like it when someone else is willing to share their info to further a line I do have. There are many people who don't live within driving time of a history center so the help of others can be crucial. Reading records can be financially a hardship or impossible timewise.. so many records and so little time.

Linda in Everett

Santos Luna wrote:
Hello Natalie:
A few weeks ago, I would have joined your "pitty party".
For years, I had researched a Castaneda line, back to about 1665, I had about 400 names, and had followed the names of the grandmothers, and their lines.

Well over a year ago, I sent a copy of my records to Angie, from this group, who caught a discrepancy. Well, between procrastination, and not wanting to start again at ground zero, much time elapsed. After ordering new film, I realized I had been "Barking Up The Wrong Tree".

Perhaps, with my new Castaneda line, I will find a connection with
Joseph.

I know what you mean with so many having the same name. Found this situation when I was attempting to make a connection with Esperanza (from Chicago land) with our Herrera and Luna lines.
Esperanza is such an extraordinary lady, I will take her as a cousin connection or not.

I am full of stories, but will save them for another time. So for now..do not give up...keep on researching. Just put it out into the group hopefully, someone will have an answer.
Helyn

---------------------------------
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Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Comment

As far as I am concerned, we have a mutual admiration society going on
Helyn!! We may not have made a definitive connection, but it is difficult to
believe that with our surnames of Herrera/Luna from Tlaltenango, we are not
related! We even look alike!!

I have recently been given some old pictures that I believe are from the
Herrera Yniguez Luna line. When I get a minute, I will scan them. One of them
is of my grandfather, one from my grandmother's brother, and one is from what
I believe is my grandmother's brother and my grandmother's father who has
"ojos de color". It would explain the blue and green eyes that two of my
brothers inherited.....albeit that my Herrera and Luna lines were first cousins.

I blush at what Helyn says about me...in reality, she has been the one who
has been the torch of enlightenment and who has shared in the true spirit of
"familia". It is I who am humbled by her generosity of spirit and whom I
embrace as "familia"....we just have to prove our strong suspicion. Our
ancestors continue to prod us forward.

Esperanza
Chicagoland area.

************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/ node/15821

Published by Mercedes Chavez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Thanks Juanita and Felix for the information on Chavez and Arechiga. I live
in So. Ca. You came here for eye surgery. Is it lasix and are you going to
get it with Dr. Maloney? Good luck with your eye surgery Juanita.

Comments

Published by juanita galvan… (not verified) – Sat, 2007-03-17 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi, Meche,

How close are you to Santa Barbara? Yes, I came here to get the cataract surgery because my son-in-law is an Opth. and he checks my eyes when I come and said I should have gotten it 5 years ago!!!!!!no wonder I am so blind.,... It will be done by Dr. Michael Paveloff,
here in SB next Wednesday. I ammmrreally looking forward to it.

Let me know if you are close by,.

Juanita

MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Juanita and Felix for the information on Chavez and Arechiga. I live
in So. Ca. You came here for eye surgery. Is it lasix and are you going to
get it with Dr. Maloney? Good luck with your eye surgery Juanita.

************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Hi ALL,

_I am not picking on this one message_ as there seems to have been many
examples lately of these breaks in protocol.

1) Make absolutely sure to move the message off the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list when it no longer relates specifically
with research for the specific areas of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or
Aguascalientes: PLEASE! ! !

2) Make absolutely sure you change or add to the "SUBJECT LINE" like you
see I've added to the "SUBJECT LINE" of this message. OR Change the
"SUBJECT LINE" all together to properly reflect the content of the
message: PLEASE ! ! !

How can we say this so ALL will get these important points:

Move it if it no longer applies to the specific list you're posting to and

Change it if it no longer reflects the original content of the message
thread

joseph

ps: here is a message I sent out to all members since we moved to the
new nuestrosranchos.org site. It might be good to review and ASK if you
are not understanding:

general@nuestrosranchos.org
use the General List for messages that are general in nature and somewhat related
to our purpose in the group. Discussion out side our target area of research is
appropriate for this list.

announce@nuestrosranchos.org
the Announce List is _strictly_ for Announcements.

research@nuestrosranchos.org
the Research List is _Strictly_ for research related messages _strictly_ about our
target area of research: _Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes_. Thus this
is the main list for the group. PLEASE _DO NOT_ DISCUSS RESEARCH
RELATED TO OUR TARGET AREA ON THE OTHER TWO LISTS.

==================

general@nuestrosranchos.org
Use "General List" (Lista General) para mensajes de interés general
y asociados al propósito del grupo.Discusiones de temas fuera de
nuestra area de enfoque son apropiadas para ésta lista.

announce@nuestrosranchos.org
La lista "Announce List" es exclusivamente para anuncios.

research@nuestrosranchos.org
La lista "Research List" es exclusivamente para mensajes unicamente
relacionados a nuestra area enfocada para investigación:
Jalisco, Zacatecas y Aguascalientes. Por lo tanto, esta es la lista pricipal
del grupo. POR FAVOR NO USE LAS OTRAS DOS LISTAS PARA LLEVAR
A CABO DISCUSIONES DE INVESTIGACIÓN DEL AREA ENFOCADA.

juanita delgado wrote:
> Hi, Meche,
>
> How close are you to Santa Barbara? Yes, I came here to get the cataract surgery because my son-in-law is an Opth. and he checks my eyes when I come and said I should have gotten it 5 years ago!!!!!!no wonder I am so blind.,... It will be done by Dr. Michael Paveloff,
> here in SB next Wednesday. I ammmrreally looking forward to it.
>
> Let me know if you are close by,.
>
> Juanita
>
> MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks Juanita and Felix for the information on Chavez and Arechiga. I live
> in So. Ca. You came here for eye surgery. Is it lasix and are you going to
> get it with Dr. Maloney? Good luck with your eye surgery Juanita.
>
>
>
> ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Joseph,

will be extra careful next time.

Juanita

Joseph Puentes wrote:
Hi ALL,

_I am not picking on this one message_ as there seems to have been many
examples lately of these breaks in protocol.

1) Make absolutely sure to move the message off the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list when it no longer relates specifically
with research for the specific areas of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or
Aguascalientes: PLEASE! ! !

2) Make absolutely sure you change or add to the "SUBJECT LINE" like you
see I've added to the "SUBJECT LINE" of this message. OR Change the
"SUBJECT LINE" all together to properly reflect the content of the
message: PLEASE ! ! !

How can we say this so ALL will get these important points:

Move it if it no longer applies to the specific list you're posting to and

Change it if it no longer reflects the original content of the message
thread

joseph

ps: here is a message I sent out to all members since we moved to the
new nuestrosranchos.org site. It might be good to review and ASK if you
are not understanding:

general@nuestrosranchos.org
use the General List for messages that are general in nature and somewhat related
to our purpose in the group. Discussion out side our target area of research is
appropriate for this list.

announce@nuestrosranchos.org
the Announce List is _strictly_ for Announcements.

research@nuestrosranchos.org
the Research List is _Strictly_ for research related messages _strictly_ about our
target area of research: _Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes_. Thus this
is the main list for the group. PLEASE _DO NOT_ DISCUSS RESEARCH
RELATED TO OUR TARGET AREA ON THE OTHER TWO LISTS.

==================

general@nuestrosranchos.org
Use "General List" (Lista General) para mensajes de interés general
y asociados al propósito del grupo.Discusiones de temas fuera de
nuestra area de enfoque son apropiadas para ésta lista.

announce@nuestrosranchos.org
La lista "Announce List" es exclusivamente para anuncios.

research@nuestrosranchos.org
La lista "Research List" es exclusivamente para mensajes unicamente
relacionados a nuestra area enfocada para investigación:
Jalisco, Zacatecas y Aguascalientes. Por lo tanto, esta es la lista pricipal
del grupo. POR FAVOR NO USE LAS OTRAS DOS LISTAS PARA LLEVAR
A CABO DISCUSIONES DE INVESTIGACIÓN DEL AREA ENFOCADA.

juanita delgado wrote:
> Hi, Meche,
>
> How close are you to Santa Barbara? Yes, I came here to get the cataract surgery because my son-in-law is an Opth. and he checks my eyes when I come and said I should have gotten it 5 years ago!!!!!!no wonder I am so blind.,... It will be done by Dr. Michael Paveloff,
> here in SB next Wednesday. I ammmrreally looking forward to it.
>
> Let me know if you are close by,.
>
> Juanita
>
> MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks Juanita and Felix for the information on Chavez and Arechiga. I live
> in So. Ca. You came here for eye surgery. Is it lasix and are you going to
> get it with Dr. Maloney? Good luck with your eye surgery Juanita.
>
>
>
> ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Source: IRNA (15 March 2007)
http://tinyurl.com/3385lg

29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Mexican archaeologists found more than 100 bodies in 29 different
pre-Hispanic tombs dating back about 2,000 years in Nayarit. Raúl

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2007-03-18 11:45 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,

That link took me to the Islamic Republic News Agency site, to an article about a brazier found in Iran, I guess. I don't see anything about Mexico in that site.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] 29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Source: IRNA (15 March 2007)
http://tinyurl.com/3385lg

29 ancient tombs found in Mexico

Mexican archaeologists found more than 100 bodies in 29 different
pre-Hispanic tombs dating back about 2,000 years in Nayarit. Raúl
Barrera, who leads the archaeological project for the National
Institute of Anthropology and History, or INAH, said most of the
remains belonged to women between the ages of 35 and 40.
Archaeologists have not yet been able to determine which civilization
the remains are from, although they know the find dates back to the
period 200 BCE to 600 CE.
The tombs - located in vertical chambers - were in a type of
burial ground found in Nayarit, Colima, Michoacán, Zacatecas and
parts of Jalisco, but they have not been found in Mesoamerica. The
tombs have, however, been found in Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela,
Barrera said, noting that there may have been cultural and trade
links between the regions. Artifacts from these countries have been
discovered on the coast of Nayarit, he said. This type of tomb may
have signified some type of a "return to the womb of Mother Earth,"
the archaeologist said.
The content of the tombs varied depending on the social status
of the individual, since "they held the belief that in making the
crossing to the next life the dead person needed certain items for
the journey," Barrera said. Archaeologists found figurines of
warriors, ball players, pregnant women and animals in the tombs, as
well as vessels and various types of jewelry. Barrera said the sites
contained only burial grounds and no dwellings, which may have been
located on mountains or other locations at higher altitudes. Of the
29 tombs, 28 were found at the La Playa site and the other was at Las
Lagunillas. Only 12 were still intact, the others having been looted
at some point. The actual digging and recovery work lasted four years.

Comment

Here's a link from Archaeology News that might work:

http://www.archaeologynews.org/link.asp?ID=178076

----- Original Message -----
From: Emilie Garcia
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 29 ancient tombs found in Mexico
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org

> Joseph,
>
> That link took me to the Islamic Republic News Agency site, to an
> article about a brazier found in Iran, I guess. I don't see
> anything about Mexico in that site.
>
> Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To:
> general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:24 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] 29 ancient tombs found in Mexico
>
>
>
> Source: IRNA (15 March 2007)
> http://tinyurl.com/3385lg
>
> 29 ancient tombs found in Mexico
>
> Mexican archaeologists found more than 100 bodies in 29 different
> pre-Hispanic tombs dating back about 2,000 years in Nayarit. Raúl
> Barrera, who leads the archaeological project for the National
> Institute of Anthropology and History, or INAH, said most of the
> remains belonged to women between the ages of 35 and 40.
> Archaeologists have not yet been able to determine which
> civilization
> the remains are from, although they know the find dates back to
> the
> period 200 BCE to 600 CE.
> The tombs - located in vertical chambers - were in a type of
> burial ground found in Nayarit, Colima, Michoacán, Zacatecas and
> parts of Jalisco, but they have not been found in Mesoamerica.
> The
> tombs have, however, been found in Colombia, Ecuador and
> Venezuela,
> Barrera said, noting that there may have been cultural and trade
> links between the regions. Artifacts from these countries have
> been
> discovered on the coast of Nayarit, he said. This type of tomb
> may
> have signified some type of a "return to the womb of Mother
> Earth,"
> the archaeologist said.
> The content of the tombs varied depending on the social
> status
> of the individual, since "they held the belief that in making the
> crossing to the next life the dead person needed certain items
> for
> the journey," Barrera said. Archaeologists found figurines of
> warriors, ball players, pregnant women and animals in the tombs,
> as
> well as vessels and various types of jewelry. Barrera said the
> sites
> contained only burial grounds and no dwellings, which may have
> been
> located on mountains or other locations at higher altitudes. Of
> the
> 29 tombs, 28 were found at the La Playa site and the other was at
> Las
> Lagunillas. Only 12 were still intact, the others having been
> looted
> at some point. The actual digging and recovery work lasted four
> years.
>
>

Looking for a Book (arturoramos)

Published by campezina –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Arturo,

I have one.

get in touch with me through this email address:

CampeZina at juno.com

Use the symbol for an email address. I just get 100s of junk mail and
would like to prevent getting more.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/ node/15821

Published by Mercedes Chavez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you have
on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of Zacatecas. I

Comments

Published by juanita galvan… (not verified) – Thu, 2007-03-15 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

Meche,

Here goes: I am doing research on my husband's name: DELGADO,. i have traced them to
San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas to about the mid-1600's.

A Francisco Delgado, son of Diego Delgado and Ysabel de Pilar Sorano, married PETRA
MARTIN CHAVEZ, circa 1670-80, supposedly in the above place.
Their children were Bartolome Delgado Chavez, Salvador Delgado Chavez, Juan Delgado Chavez and Joseph Francisco Delgado Chavez. I do not have any information on the ancestry of Petra Chavez.

By 1738, the Delgados were in the states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon.

In 1867, a Maria Dolores Delgado Pena marries a CORNELIO ARECHIGA PEREZ, in NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO.
I have the names of their children, but at home in Texas. I am in So. Ca. getting eye surgery and expect to be back home around April 20. I will be glad to give you some names to see if they ring a bell. Who knows. These Arechiga just might be related to el general.and governador. wow!

Juanita Dekgadi

MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you have
on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of Zacatecas. I
believe he was my greatgreat grandfather's cousin.

**************************************
AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Hi,

I have Petra Martin de Chavez as a daughter of Juan Martin de Chavez and
Isabel Perez, and Isabel Perez as a foster daughter of Captain Gabriel Ortiz
and another Isabel Perez. I do not recall where I got this information from,
but I have registered it as reliable.

Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: juanita delgado
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:58:44 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Meche,
>
> Here goes: I am doing research on my husband's name: DELGADO,. i have
>traced them to
> San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas to about the mid-1600's.
>
> A Francisco Delgado, son of Diego Delgado and Ysabel de Pilar Sorano,
>married PETRA
> MARTIN CHAVEZ, circa 1670-80, supposedly in the above place.
> Their children were Bartolome Delgado Chavez, Salvador Delgado Chavez,
>Juan Delgado Chavez and Joseph Francisco Delgado Chavez. I do not have any
>information on the ancestry of Petra Chavez.
>
> By 1738, the Delgados were in the states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon.
>
> In 1867, a Maria Dolores Delgado Pena marries a CORNELIO ARECHIGA
>PEREZ, in NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO.
> I have the names of their children, but at home in Texas. I am in So.
>Ca. getting eye surgery and expect to be back home around April 20. I will
>be glad to give you some names to see if they ring a bell. Who knows. These
>Arechiga just might be related to el general.and governador. wow!
>
> Juanita Dekgadi
>
>
>
>
>MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you
>have
>on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
>Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of Zacatecas.
>I
>believe he was my greatgreat grandfather's cousin.
>
>
>
>**************************************
>AOL now offers free
>email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
>http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Felix,

Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!!!!!for the info on PETRA MARTIN CHAVEZ!

I NOW HAVE ANOTHER GENERATION TO ADD TO MY LIST. WOW!
PLEASE SEND ME ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE ON THEM.

JUANITA G. DELGADO

Hector Felix Aizcorbe wrote:
Hi,

I have Petra Martin de Chavez as a daughter of Juan Martin de Chavez and
Isabel Perez, and Isabel Perez as a foster daughter of Captain Gabriel Ortiz
and another Isabel Perez. I do not recall where I got this information from,
but I have registered it as reliable.

Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: juanita delgado
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:58:44 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Meche,
>
> Here goes: I am doing research on my husband's name: DELGADO,. i have
>traced them to
> San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas to about the mid-1600's.
>
> A Francisco Delgado, son of Diego Delgado and Ysabel de Pilar Sorano,
>married PETRA
> MARTIN CHAVEZ, circa 1670-80, supposedly in the above place.
> Their children were Bartolome Delgado Chavez, Salvador Delgado Chavez,
>Juan Delgado Chavez and Joseph Francisco Delgado Chavez. I do not have any
>information on the ancestry of Petra Chavez.
>
> By 1738, the Delgados were in the states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon.
>
> In 1867, a Maria Dolores Delgado Pena marries a CORNELIO ARECHIGA
>PEREZ, in NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO.
> I have the names of their children, but at home in Texas. I am in So.
>Ca. getting eye surgery and expect to be back home around April 20. I will
>be glad to give you some names to see if they ring a bell. Who knows. These
>Arechiga just might be related to el general.and governador. wow!
>
> Juanita Dekgadi
>
>
>
>
>MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you
>have
>on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
>Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of Zacatecas.
>I
>believe he was my greatgreat grandfather's cousin.
>
>
>
>**************************************
>AOL now offers free
>email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
>http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Hi Juanita,

I've been trying to find the source to the information I gave you before and
I just can't among the many different papers and books I have, but the way I
recorded it tells me that it is reliable information, as I told you. One
more piece of information is that Isabel Perez, foster daughter of Capt.
Gabriel Ortiz and Isabel Perez, was the actual natural daughter of Antonio
Flores de Contreras and a "coyota" woman (possibly a mestiza). ¿Do you have
access to Luz Montejano's book on marriage information in the Bishopric of
Nueva Galicia? There are several entries related to the Martin de Chavez,
among others that Francisco Delgado, once a widower of Petra Martin de
Chavez, married Dona Juana Delgado y Valenzuela in 1700.

Could you inform me the source to his parents Diego delgado and Isabel
Soriano?

Thanks,
Hector

>From: juanita delgado
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Felix,
>
> Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!!!!!for the info on PETRA MARTIN CHAVEZ!
>
> I NOW HAVE ANOTHER GENERATION TO ADD TO MY LIST. WOW!
> PLEASE SEND ME ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE ON THEM.
>
>
> JUANITA G. DELGADO
>
>Hector Felix Aizcorbe wrote:
> Hi,
>
>I have Petra Martin de Chavez as a daughter of Juan Martin de Chavez and
>Isabel Perez, and Isabel Perez as a foster daughter of Captain Gabriel
>Ortiz
>and another Isabel Perez. I do not recall where I got this information
>from,
>but I have registered it as reliable.
>
>Hector Felix Aizcorbe
>
>
> >From: juanita delgado
> >Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:58:44 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Meche,
> >
> > Here goes: I am doing research on my husband's name: DELGADO,. i have
> >traced them to
> > San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas to about the mid-1600's.
> >
> > A Francisco Delgado, son of Diego Delgado and Ysabel de Pilar Sorano,
> >married PETRA
> > MARTIN CHAVEZ, circa 1670-80, supposedly in the above place.
> > Their children were Bartolome Delgado Chavez, Salvador Delgado Chavez,
> >Juan Delgado Chavez and Joseph Francisco Delgado Chavez. I do not have
>any
> >information on the ancestry of Petra Chavez.
> >
> > By 1738, the Delgados were in the states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon.
> >
> > In 1867, a Maria Dolores Delgado Pena marries a CORNELIO ARECHIGA
> >PEREZ, in NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO.
> > I have the names of their children, but at home in Texas. I am in So.
> >Ca. getting eye surgery and expect to be back home around April 20. I
>will
> >be glad to give you some names to see if they ring a bell. Who knows.
>These
> >Arechiga just might be related to el general.and governador. wow!
> >
> > Juanita Dekgadi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> > Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you
> >have
> >on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
> >Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of
>Zacatecas.
> >I
> >believe he was my greatgreat grandfather's cousin.
> >
> >
> >
> >**************************************
> >AOL now offers free
> >email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> >http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Hi, Hector,

Join the club of people who have papeles here and papeles there. I have tried, to no avail, to keep really, really everything in order, but what working on four family trees at one time, I sort of gave up, But that is soooooooooimportant, sources.

Anyway, I believe I got the information from Arturo, He sure is helpful. I am trying to follow his advice and put my trees in correct genealogy order, but it is easier said than done,He said it was on IGI, and in another book , like dispensations, for Francisco Delgado.

Things can get pretty complicated, though. For example, I found Diego Delgado with different
wives' names. I got from ARturo, that he was married to Petra Martin Chaves and I had also gotten that same name from another source. He is listed with Catharing Martin Chaves, Catharing Rodriguez and Catharing Martin Rodriguez. No dates, so that makes it difficult.
It might be the same person, or a sister?????

I found 5 sons for Francisco Delgado and Petra. Perhaps this Diego is a brother to Francisco, that is Diego, Jr.?

The children I found for Diego and Catharina are Juana Rosa Delgado Chaves, Juana Rosa
Delgado aand Juana Delgado Rodriguez (you know how some took their mother's name and others their father;s name.

Juana Delgado Rodriguez was christened May 1708, and Juana Rosa Delgado Chaves was christened Sept. 1702.

As for the "coyota", that has different meanings in different places. Here on the border it refers to the youngest of the siblings. It also refers to the people crossing people from Mexico into the US through the Rio.

I got the above information from familysearch.

I am in Ca. now, but back home in Harlingen, Texas, there is an LDS center, with lotssss of information , especially from Northeastern Mexico down to Texas.

Before I left for Ca. I was there and was ready to get into the Zacatecas film available there, but the person I went with had to leave. I am looking forward to going back and check out that film.

By the way, I searched from Diego Delgado,Juan Martin de Chavez,, Isabel Perez, the Capt.Ortiz, his wife, and found nothing. Can't give up!!!!!!! It;s getting too interesting.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!! Juanita G. Delgado

Hector Felix Aizcorbe wrote:
Hi Juanita,

I've been trying to find the source to the information I gave you before and
I just can't among the many different papers and books I have, but the way I
recorded it tells me that it is reliable information, as I told you. One
more piece of information is that Isabel Perez, foster daughter of Capt.
Gabriel Ortiz and Isabel Perez, was the actual natural daughter of Antonio
Flores de Contreras and a "coyota" woman (possibly a mestiza). ¿Do you have
access to Luz Montejano's book on marriage information in the Bishopric of
Nueva Galicia? There are several entries related to the Martin de Chavez,
among others that Francisco Delgado, once a widower of Petra Martin de
Chavez, married Dona Juana Delgado y Valenzuela in 1700.

Could you inform me the source to his parents Diego delgado and Isabel
Soriano?

Thanks,
Hector

>From: juanita delgado
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Felix,
>
> Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!!!!!for the info on PETRA MARTIN CHAVEZ!
>
> I NOW HAVE ANOTHER GENERATION TO ADD TO MY LIST. WOW!
> PLEASE SEND ME ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE ON THEM.
>
>
> JUANITA G. DELGADO
>
>Hector Felix Aizcorbe wrote:
> Hi,
>
>I have Petra Martin de Chavez as a daughter of Juan Martin de Chavez and
>Isabel Perez, and Isabel Perez as a foster daughter of Captain Gabriel
>Ortiz
>and another Isabel Perez. I do not recall where I got this information
>from,
>but I have registered it as reliable.
>
>Hector Felix Aizcorbe
>
>
> >From: juanita delgado
> >Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15821
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:58:44 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Meche,
> >
> > Here goes: I am doing research on my husband's name: DELGADO,. i have
> >traced them to
> > San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas to about the mid-1600's.
> >
> > A Francisco Delgado, son of Diego Delgado and Ysabel de Pilar Sorano,
> >married PETRA
> > MARTIN CHAVEZ, circa 1670-80, supposedly in the above place.
> > Their children were Bartolome Delgado Chavez, Salvador Delgado Chavez,
> >Juan Delgado Chavez and Joseph Francisco Delgado Chavez. I do not have
>any
> >information on the ancestry of Petra Chavez.
> >
> > By 1738, the Delgados were in the states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon.
> >
> > In 1867, a Maria Dolores Delgado Pena marries a CORNELIO ARECHIGA
> >PEREZ, in NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO.
> > I have the names of their children, but at home in Texas. I am in So.
> >Ca. getting eye surgery and expect to be back home around April 20. I
>will
> >be glad to give you some names to see if they ring a bell. Who knows.
>These
> >Arechiga just might be related to el general.and governador. wow!
> >
> > Juanita Dekgadi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:
> > Juanita, yes I would definitely would gladly accept any information you
> >have
> >on Chavez and Arechiga. I know I am distantly related to el general Jesus
> >Arechiga who was president of Jalpa and governor of the state of
>Zacatecas.
> >I
> >believe he was my greatgreat grandfather's cousin.
> >
> >
> >
> >**************************************
> >AOL now offers free
> >email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> >http://www.aol.com.

Railroad Retirement Board

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

http://www.rrb.gov/blaw/foia/foia.asp

Arturo,

I found this online. It is confusing to me. They say that information is available under the Freedom of Information Act, but information is not given regarding individuals. Does that mean that if I asked them for information regarding my father's employment there, that they couldn't give it to me? My father did not get the RR retirement since he only worked there a short time. He worked for Westinghouse in California under regular Social Security before he passed away. I see that Ancestry.com has some RRB records, but I haven't checked them out yet. I guess only those that got RR retirement would be listed there.

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Thu, 2007-03-15 07:44 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie:

It looks like the RRB FOIA site merely mentions that release of individual records is restricted. That does not necessarily mean that records of deceased individuals are off limits, merely that release of individual records may be denied, e.g. in case the person is still alive or someone were to request non-historical value records.

The privacy act referenced on that page specifically requires all Federal Agencies to determine which records might be of historical value and preserve them or have the National Archives preserve them.

I will look into the Ancestry RRB records next time I am at my family history center.

Comment

Arturo,

thanks for clearing that up.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:44 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board

Emilie:

It looks like the RRB FOIA site merely mentions that release of individual records is restricted. That does not necessarily mean that records of deceased individuals are off limits, merely that release of individual records may be denied, e.g. in case the person is still alive or someone were to request non-historical value records.

The privacy act referenced on that page specifically requires all Federal Agencies to determine which records might be of historical value and preserve them or have the National Archives preserve them.

I will look into the Ancestry RRB records next time I am at my family history center.

Comment

Emilie, Arturo and All,

In July 1995 I contacted the RRB explaining that I was involved in a
genealogical project and requested all vital records that they had on file
covering my father-in-law's rail service employement. After providing his
Social Security Number, and a copy of his death certificate, I was notified
that as soon as their record search was completed I would be notified . By
the end of Aug 1995 I received notification that records had been located,
and that photocopies were enclosed.

Enclosed were various forms relating to occupation and compensation, as
well as the application for annuity under the RRB Act that had been
prepared by my father-in-law. This application provided vital genealogical
information as to his date of birth; place of birth; parent names; his
spouse's maiden name; spouse's date of birth and the date of their marriage.

.
Pat Silva Corbea

This is the address I used...

United States of America
Railroad Retirment Board
844 N. Rush St.
Chicago IL 60611-2002
Attn: Office of Public Affairs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emilie Garcia"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board

> Arturo,
>
> thanks for clearing that up.
>
> Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: arturoramos
> To:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:44 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board
>
>
>
> Emilie:
>
> It looks like the RRB FOIA site merely mentions that release of
> individual records is restricted. That does not necessarily mean that
> records of deceased individuals are off limits, merely that release of
> individual records may be denied, e.g. in case the person is still alive
> or someone were to request non-historical value records.
>
> The privacy act referenced on that page specifically requires all Federal
> Agencies to determine which records might be of historical value and
> preserve them or have the National Archives preserve them.
>
> I will look into the Ancestry RRB records next time I am at my family
> history center.

Comment

Pat,

Do you know if they have any info prior to 1937? My father settled down in Colorado to raise sugar beets, etc. by that year when he married my mother. I was born in 1939. He must have worked on the railroad in the 1920s and early 1930s. ( He was born in 1903, and came to Colorado when he was 10 years old). I wonder if the RRB existed then or did it come into existence around 1936 when Social Security did. I have no idea when he worked for the railroad. Were you able to give them the dates that your father-in-law worked, and was it after 1937? I guess there is no telephone number I can call?

Thanks,

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: papagaia2
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board

Emilie, Arturo and All,

In July 1995 I contacted the RRB explaining that I was involved in a
genealogical project and requested all vital records that they had on file
covering my father-in-law's rail service employement. After providing his
Social Security Number, and a copy of his death certificate, I was notified
that as soon as their record search was completed I would be notified . By
the end of Aug 1995 I received notification that records had been located,
and that photocopies were enclosed.

Enclosed were various forms relating to occupation and compensation, as
well as the application for annuity under the RRB Act that had been
prepared by my father-in-law. This application provided vital genealogical
information as to his date of birth; place of birth; parent names; his
spouse's maiden name; spouse's date of birth and the date of their marriage.

.
Pat Silva Corbea

This is the address I used...

United States of America
Railroad Retirment Board
844 N. Rush St.
Chicago IL 60611-2002
Attn: Office of Public Affairs

Comment

Pat,

Thank you so much for that very useful information. Having all of that employment information must be extremely valuable.

Emilie, et al...

The RRB came into existence in 1934. The National Archives actually has a lot of their early records and may be an easier way to obtain some of that information than the RRB. From my experience, Federal government agencies will not consider FOIA requests via phone, and given that proof of death would be required for this type of request, I imagine that a letter is the only way to go...

http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/184.html

But just in case, their number is Chicago is:

Telephone: (312) 751-7139

http://www.rrb.gov/

Comment

Arturo,
You're very welcome. Nice to know that maybe I have helped someone with
their search.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "arturoramos"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:57 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board History and Records

>
> Pat,
>
> Thank you so much for that very useful information. Having all of that
> employment information must be extremely valuable.
>
> Emilie, et al...
>
> The RRB came into existence in 1934. The National Archives actually has a
> lot of their early records and may be an easier way to obtain some of that
> information than the RRB. From my experience, Federal government agencies
> will not consider FOIA requests via phone, and given that proof of death
> would be required for this type of request, I imagine that a letter is the
> only way to go...
>
> http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/184.html
>
> But just in case, their number is Chicago is:
>
> Telephone: (312) 751-7139
>
> http://www.rrb.gov/

Comment

Emilie,

Included in the photo copy package that I received from the RRB was a copy
of a form titled "Employee's Statement of Compensated Service Rendered
Prior to Jan 1, 1937, to Employers Under The Railroad Retirement Act of
1937, it stated "Under the RR Act of 1937 service prior to Jan 1, 1937, can
be credited toward an annuity only for individuals who on August 29, 1935,
were in the active compensated service of or in an employment relation to an
employer under that Act. Only such individuals should fill out this form."
My father-in-law completed this form, with time worked for Southern Pacific
Co. from Oct 1929 and indicated that he was still employed as of the date he
completed this form on May 1939.
His earnings from Oct 1929 - Dec. 1936 were verified by the RRB and listed
by month on the "Record of Employee's Prior Service," form.

He had also completed a form for time worked for "The Atchison Topeka &
Santa Fe RY Co. (Coast Lines), supplying dates of 1922 - 1925, this
employment was also verified and the compensation amounts for the years
1922 - 1925 were included.
Under "additional information," supplied by the RRB it stated that " pay
rolls for period Jan. 1918 to Dec 1920 incl., account payrolls not
available. Denver, Colorado is a part of the Pueblo-Denver Joint Lines, and
track laborers at Denver are carried on pay rolls on file with the Colorado
and Southern Ry. Co. at Denver from Jan. 1901 to date. They also indicated
they were unable to verify months of Sept, 1923, February, March and July to
December 1925, incl. "

Service verified from original payrolls on file for Colorado and Southern
Railway Co. covering the dates of 1913 - 1920 reflected 9 months worked in
1913, nothing in 1914 and 2 months in 1915, under additional comments.....
"unable to verify service from 1919 to 1920 as Joint Line Payrolls
subsequent to Dec. 1918 are not in our possession, signed by the General
Auditor.

On my father-in-law's "Application for Employee Annuity Under the RR Act,"
he listed his employment with employers outside the railroad industry, and
indicated that he expected to receive Social Security benefits.

Below is an excerpt from my correspondance with the Office of Public Affairs
for the RRB dated May 31, 1996, when I tried to obtain information on my
mother-in-law's father's rail service records. I was unable to obtain info
because I didn't have his social security number, nor his complete date of
birth and death...As pointed out in the RRB letter, " in dealing with
surnames such as Perez, and/or cases where even this minimal information is
unavailable, it is not possible to determine whether we have any records of
a person without knowing his social security number. " "The RRB, like the
Social Security Administration, was not established until the mid-1930s, and
it began maintaining its own records of all covered rail service in 1937.
The Board's service records are limited to individuals who worked in the
rail industry after 1936."

I had no knowledge at the time, nor did my husband, of the actual dates that
his father was employed by the rail service, we did know that he qualified
and received benefits under the RRB Act.

I never spoke to anyone on the phone. I only wrote letters, and received
timely replies.. please remember that all this took place in July 1995, and
receiving the file photo copies in Aug 1995... But in May 1996 I was unable
to obtain info for another ancestor.

My father-in-law was born in 1894 and died in 1970.

I personally feel that the information obtained from these records was well
worth all that I needed to do in order to obtain them... I would suggest
that you contact the RRB, with the info that you do have... and let them
tell you if they have or do not have records for your father. Requirements
and fees in place now, may have not been during my time of contact with
them.

Have you checked out the Colorado census records for the 1920s and 1930s,
occupation and industry questions/answers on these census may help to
establish your dad's occupation at the time.

I hope that I have answered your questions, if not, please let me know...
the bottom line to this rather lengthy e-mail by me, rest on what my
father-in-law did in supplying the necessary information at the time, that
resulted years later in adding to his legacy to his family.

Good Luck...
Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emilie Garcia"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board

> Pat,
>
> Do you know if they have any info prior to 1937? My father settled down
> in Colorado to raise sugar beets, etc. by that year when he married my
> mother. I was born in 1939. He must have worked on the railroad in the
> 1920s and early 1930s. ( He was born in 1903, and came to Colorado when he
> was 10 years old). I wonder if the RRB existed then or did it come into
> existence around 1936 when Social Security did. I have no idea when he
> worked for the railroad. Were you able to give them the dates that your
> father-in-law worked, and was it after 1937? I guess there is no
> telephone number I can call?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: papagaia2
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board
>
>
> Emilie, Arturo and All,
>
> In July 1995 I contacted the RRB explaining that I was involved in a
> genealogical project and requested all vital records that they had on
> file
> covering my father-in-law's rail service employement. After providing
> his
> Social Security Number, and a copy of his death certificate, I was
> notified
> that as soon as their record search was completed I would be notified .
> By
> the end of Aug 1995 I received notification that records had been
> located,
> and that photocopies were enclosed.
>
> Enclosed were various forms relating to occupation and compensation, as
> well as the application for annuity under the RRB Act that had been
> prepared by my father-in-law. This application provided vital
> genealogical
> information as to his date of birth; place of birth; parent names; his
> spouse's maiden name; spouse's date of birth and the date of their
> marriage.
>
> .
> Pat Silva Corbea
>
> This is the address I used...
>
> United States of America
> Railroad Retirment Board
> 844 N. Rush St.
> Chicago IL 60611-2002
> Attn: Office of Public Affairs

Comment

Pat,

Thanks so much for the information. The 1920 and 1930 censuses list my father's occupation as "laborer" or "general farm", so I don't know when he worked for the railroad. I think they had all that info on your father-in-law because he received benefits from the RRB. Since my father did not receive RRB benefits, they may not have a record of when he worked for the railroad, but I will send in my request anyway since I would like to have any information they might have, like you say, that would add to his legacy and flesh out his life before I was born. I haven't had any luck in finding anything on him and his mother or sister, not even in Jerez since their birth and baptism records are lost there. I was able to trace his paternal side clear back to the early 1700s, but I can't find a thing on my father or his mother or his only sibling, his sister.

Thanks again,

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: papagaia2
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad Retirement Board

Emilie,

Included in the photo copy package that I received from the RRB was a copy
of a form titled "Employee's Statement of Compensated Service Rendered
Prior to Jan 1, 1937, to Employers Under The Railroad Retirement Act of
1937, it stated "Under the RR Act of 1937 service prior to Jan 1, 1937, can
be credited toward an annuity only for individuals who on August 29, 1935,
were in the active compensated service of or in an employment relation to an
employer under that Act. Only such individuals should fill out this form."
My father-in-law completed this form, with time worked for Southern Pacific
Co. from Oct 1929 and indicated that he was still employed as of the date he
completed this form on May 1939.
His earnings from Oct 1929 - Dec. 1936 were verified by the RRB and listed
by month on the "Record of Employee's Prior Service," form.

He had also completed a form for time worked for "The Atchison Topeka &
Santa Fe RY Co. (Coast Lines), supplying dates of 1922 - 1925, this
employment was also verified and the compensation amounts for the years
1922 - 1925 were included.
Under "additional information," supplied by the RRB it stated that " pay
rolls for period Jan. 1918 to Dec 1920 incl., account payrolls not
available. Denver, Colorado is a part of the Pueblo-Denver Joint Lines, and
track laborers at Denver are carried on pay rolls on file with the Colorado
and Southern Ry. Co. at Denver from Jan. 1901 to date. They also indicated
they were unable to verify months of Sept, 1923, February, March and July to
December 1925, incl. "

Service verified from original payrolls on file for Colorado and Southern
Railway Co. covering the dates of 1913 - 1920 reflected 9 months worked in
1913, nothing in 1914 and 2 months in 1915, under additional comments.....
"unable to verify service from 1919 to 1920 as Joint Line Payrolls
subsequent to Dec. 1918 are not in our possession, signed by the General
Auditor.

On my father-in-law's "Application for Employee Annuity Under the RR Act,"
he listed his employment with employers outside the railroad industry, and
indicated that he expected to receive Social Security benefits.

Below is an excerpt from my correspondance with the Office of Public Affairs
for the RRB dated May 31, 1996, when I tried to obtain information on my
mother-in-law's father's rail service records. I was unable to obtain info
because I didn't have his social security number, nor his complete date of
birth and death...As pointed out in the RRB letter, " in dealing with
surnames such as Perez, and/or cases where even this minimal information is
unavailable, it is not possible to determine whether we have any records of
a person without knowing his social security number. " "The RRB, like the
Social Security Administration, was not established until the mid-1930s, and
it began maintaining its own records of all covered rail service in 1937.
The Board's service records are limited to individuals who worked in the
rail industry after 1936."

I had no knowledge at the time, nor did my husband, of the actual dates that
his father was employed by the rail service, we did know that he qualified
and received benefits under the RRB Act.

I never spoke to anyone on the phone. I only wrote letters, and received
timely replies.. please remember that all this took place in July 1995, and
receiving the file photo copies in Aug 1995... But in May 1996 I was unable
to obtain info for another ancestor.

My father-in-law was born in 1894 and died in 1970.

I personally feel that the information obtained from these records was well
worth all that I needed to do in order to obtain them... I would suggest
that you contact the RRB, with the info that you do have... and let them
tell you if they have or do not have records for your father. Requirements
and fees in place now, may have not been during my time of contact with
them.

Have you checked out the Colorado census records for the 1920s and 1930s,
occupation and industry questions/answers on these census may help to
establish your dad's occupation at the time.

I hope that I have answered your questions, if not, please let me know...
the bottom line to this rather lengthy e-mail by me, rest on what my
father-in-law did in supplying the necessary information at the time, that
resulted years later in adding to his legacy to his family.

Good Luck...
Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emilie Garcia" >

Arnoldo Garcia: Sacramento

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hey all you Sacramento Bees:

I'm wondering who knows Arnoldo Garcia from Sacramento? He recently
applied for membership with this email address: garciaa@scc.losrios.edu
It seems to be bouncing. If you know him can you contact him and tell

Comments

Published by aajay1073 – Fri, 2007-03-16 12:06 | Permalink

Comment

Hey Joseph,

I know Arnoldo through email correspondence. He and I share the same Carreon and Miramontes families. We're probably like 4 or 5 cousins or something...

Anyway, you just have a typo in his email address.

I will email you in private with the actual address.

Talk to you later,
Angie Godina

Lope Ruiz de Esparza

Published by mendezdetorres –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Does anyone have any of his genealogy of his ancestors? I just know his dad was also Lope. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

Welcome Rosa

Published by Dr. Rosa Espin… –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your valuable suggestions.
I felt that I was in a dead end trying to locate my mother's family since
the information that I have is very limited. I am using rootsmagic

Comments

Published by makas_nc – Thu, 2007-03-15 05:30 | Permalink

Comment

I'm not familiar with Rootsmagic but I'm thinking that the
recommendation to get PAF was in case you weren't using any genealogy
software. Probably if rootsmagic does reports and allows you to organize
your data it might be good enough. But maybe others in the group that
are familiar with this program can comment.

for those IGI or VRI buttons go to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/films/Jalisco/1024

and look under the heading "Indicies" and you'll see the buttons Arturo
referred to.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Rosa Ana wrote:
> Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your valuable
> suggestions. I felt that I was in a dead end trying to locate my
> mother's family since the information that I have is very limited. I
> am using rootsmagic software, do you still recommend me to use the PAF
> software. I foud how to search for films, but I have not found the
> IGI or VRI buttons. Thank you very much for your help, Rosa
>
>> From: arturoramos
>> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Welcome Rosa
>> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>
>> Rosa:
>>
>> Welcome to the group. As a new genealogist, I would suggest you
>> begin by getting some software. PAF is put out by LDS for free and
>> is very good software. It is imperative to keep very good records,
>> including sources, from the onset.
>>
>> Next, I would suggest going to the "Films" section and finding the
>> relevant municipalities to see if they are indexed in the LDS
>> databases. If they are you will see "IGI" or "VRI" buttons next to
>> the film number and description. Clicking on the button will give
>> you the full contents of the film which you can then delimit by
>> surname, first name, etc. Arandas, for example, is fully indexed so
>> if you have the names of your great-grandparents you should be able
>> to find their marriage and/or baptism certificates.
>>
>> Next, you should find your nearest family history center and order
>> the relevant films where you know or suspect your ancestors
>> information is listed. Indices are often wrong so it is worth
>> verifying and even when they are correct, the actual record has much
>> more information than what is extracted for the index.
>>
>> You should also browse or search through the user profiles and see if
>> others are researching your towns or surnames. Many of us have found
>> relatives through this group.
>>
>> It is also useful to download the Nuestros Ranchos user guide which
>> you will find in the "Files" "Reference Materials" section of the site.
>>
>> Good luck.

Comment

I just bought "Rootsmagic" to try. I have used PAF while all my data has been gathered in "Family Tree". Rootsmagic is powerful because of its intergration with "familysearch.org". The advantage to Family Tree is its ease of use.

Joseph Puentes wrote:
I'm not familiar with Rootsmagic but I'm thinking that the
recommendation to get PAF was in case you weren't using any genealogy
software. Probably if rootsmagic does reports and allows you to organize
your data it might be good enough. But maybe others in the group that
are familiar with this program can comment.

for those IGI or VRI buttons go to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/films/Jalisco/1024

and look under the heading "Indicies" and you'll see the buttons Arturo
referred to.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Rosa Ana wrote:
> Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your valuable
> suggestions. I felt that I was in a dead end trying to locate my
> mother's family since the information that I have is very limited. I
> am using rootsmagic software, do you still recommend me to use the PAF
> software. I foud how to search for films, but I have not found the
> IGI or VRI buttons. Thank you very much for your help, Rosa
>
>> From: arturoramos
>> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Welcome Rosa
>> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>
>> Rosa:
>>
>> Welcome to the group. As a new genealogist, I would suggest you
>> begin by getting some software. PAF is put out by LDS for free and
>> is very good software. It is imperative to keep very good records,
>> including sources, from the onset.
>>
>> Next, I would suggest going to the "Films" section and finding the
>> relevant municipalities to see if they are indexed in the LDS
>> databases. If they are you will see "IGI" or "VRI" buttons next to
>> the film number and description. Clicking on the button will give
>> you the full contents of the film which you can then delimit by
>> surname, first name, etc. Arandas, for example, is fully indexed so
>> if you have the names of your great-grandparents you should be able
>> to find their marriage and/or baptism certificates.
>>
>> Next, you should find your nearest family history center and order
>> the relevant films where you know or suspect your ancestors
>> information is listed. Indices are often wrong so it is worth
>> verifying and even when they are correct, the actual record has much
>> more information than what is extracted for the index.
>>
>> You should also browse or search through the user profiles and see if
>> others are researching your towns or surnames. Many of us have found
>> relatives through this group.
>>
>> It is also useful to download the Nuestros Ranchos user guide which
>> you will find in the "Files" "Reference Materials" section of the site.
>>
>> Good luck.

We are the Mitchells I am Irma Romo Mitchell Dave's wife

Published by dlmitch –
Forums
Genealogy Research

My name is Irma Romo Mitchell. My husband and I have just recently become Nuestros Members. My husband is the geneology guru. I just happen to be his Hispanic / Mexican American wife - maiden named Romo from the Romo De Vivar from Spain then Mexico.

Comments

Published by makas_nc – Thu, 2007-03-15 05:30 | Permalink

Comment

Sorry I've been out of touch her lately and as I get busier probably
will be more out of touch. what is happening on the 17th? Are you all
going to have a another get together in Sacramento or someplace else? If
so please take pictures and notes and send us a a summation of the
meeting afterwards.

have fun. . .wish I was closer but hope to meet you all one day.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

dlmitch wrote:
>
> My name is Irma Romo Mitchell. My husband and I have just recently become Nuestros Members. My husband is the geneology guru. I just happen to be his Hispanic / Mexican American wife - maiden named Romo from the Romo De Vivar from Spain then Mexico.
>
> Dave is "Un Gotita" Spanish form around the year 700, however his love for the culture, food, tequilas, and beer amazes me. Just kidding - his love for family history is genuine and we Thank you for welcoming us into your email family. See you on March 17, 2007.
>
> Signed,
>
> Mrs "Un Gotita"

Before Flying to Zacatecas

Published by oldcar53 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Unfortunately for Mercedes and for anyone else doing research in Jalpa, Jalpa's records are very skimpy, probably lost during wars, fires and civil unrest but some of the other municipalities that are nearby (might) have some records for Jalpa. In my research primarily for Nochistlan but also in Jalpa I have found some of Jalpa's records in with Nochistlan, not many......................and Arturo is correct, the best place to do your research is through the family history centers, going to the town you might get some oral history but you won't get much in terms of birth, baptism or marriage records unless you have exact names with the exact birth, baptism or marriage dates.

Comments

Published by Mercedes Chavez – Mon, 2007-03-12 18:30 | Permalink

Comment

You are correct. Jalpa's records are skimpy because of civil unrest, etc. I
did not know about Nochistlan. Also the state capital of Zacatecas should
have records from the municipalities, however, the capital was also affected by
fires, etc....oh boy so much unrest. Hopefully, it will have some missing
links. I will also check the films you mentioned. I am going to Jalpa next for
a wedding so I will see how much info I can get. Thanks for the tips.



**************************************
AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.

Comment

Good Evening Arturo, When I go to the nuestrosranchos.org homepage, I don't see the login area to the right where I usually enter my username and password. Has the login process changed? Thanks so much, Alice

--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:

From: arturoramos
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Before Flying to Zacatecas
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT)

Mercedes:

I am sure that a trip to Jalpa would be a great learning experience but as many members will tell you, going to the locality is not necessarily the best way to do genealogical research.

For one, the best genealogical records in Mexico are church records and many priests are very reticent about letting people look at them especially for broad research. Many civil records have been lost or are very disorganized in the towns as well and often the state capitals are the only places where you can find records.

That being said, the Family History Library has films for Jalpa that should probably be where you should begin your search. Just go to http://www.familysearch.org and look up the nearest family history center to you where you can go and order and view the films.

Jalpa, Zacatecas:

Información matrimonial 1864-1875 FHL INTL Film 1511832 Items 3-4
Información matrimonial 1874-1897 VAULT INTL Film 1511824
Información matrimonial 1898-1904 VAULT INTL Film 1511825

Nacimientos 1884-1890 FHL INTL Film 773875
Nacimientos 1891-1895 VAULT INTL Film 773876
Nacimientos 1896-1898 VAULT INTL Film 773877

Comment

Hi,
My family is also from Jalpa, Zac., and took a trip just about 3 years ago, with my Sister to do more family research. We had contacted our cousins (2nd) to inform them or our arrival and our intentions, to get their family information to add to our on-going collection of our families history.
Even though we had more information (thanks to LDS- entries of documents) than the church, they did allow us to see the actual books that were micro-fished, and in the process found another entry of a distant relative. It was exciting, but the priest there was not so happy and had asked where did we get our copies that we showed him and which we dated later than what books they had. We were also informed that their records were destroyed by a fire.
We also had gone to the vitals building and they were gracious enough to give us a print copy of our grandparents marriage, then we were ecstatic. We also had the opportunity to go to the old cemetery to take photos of our ancestors plots. Thanks to our family that lives there, we were able to see the sites and got familiar with the town. I'd say that it was well worth the trip and it was a wonderful experience. We are planning to do it again some day, I hope sooner than later.
Go! You won' regret it.
Yvonne

Comment

Yvonne, Thanks for the encouraging words! I'm considering going down to Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, and Jalisco since my search through FHC hasn't been successful. However, I won't have the advantage of knowing any relatives there, so I'm not exactly sure how to start the research process. Which brings me to the questions of how much time would be needed to research, and which is the best way to get there. I'm a single, middled aged woman living in central Texas, and I think that it would be easier to fly into Guadalajara to research, rent a car, and drive to Aguascalientes and Zacatecas and return by way of Guadalajara. I'm not at all sure and welcome input from all. Thanks, Alice

--- ybinsouthsac@yahoo.com wrote:

From: y b
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Before Flying to Zacatecas
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:41:21 -0700 (PDT)

Hi,
My family is also from Jalpa, Zac., and took a trip just about 3 years ago, with my Sister to do more family research. We had contacted our cousins (2nd) to inform them or our arrival and our intentions, to get their family information to add to our on-going collection of our families history.
Even though we had more information (thanks to LDS- entries of documents) than the church, they did allow us to see the actual books that were micro-fished, and in the process found another entry of a distant relative. It was exciting, but the priest there was not so happy and had asked where did we get our copies that we showed him and which we dated later than what books they had. We were also informed that their records were destroyed by a fire.
We also had gone to the vitals building and they were gracious enough to give us a print copy of our grandparents marriage, then we were ecstatic. We also had the opportunity to go to the old cemetery to take photos of our ancestors plots. Thanks to our family that lives there, we were able to see the sites and got familiar with the town. I'd say that it was well worth the trip and it was a wonderful experience. We are planning to do it again some day, I hope sooner than later.
Go! You won' regret it.
Yvonne

Comment

Alice, Yvonne is correct. It seems the LDS website has a lot of documents on
microfiche. I am in the processs of trying to get in contact with them.
Unfortunately, in Zacatecas and I am pretty sure in many other towns in Mexico,
because of civil unrest, etc. the documents are skimpy. Like another member
mentioned, it is best to start with the LDS documents and then go from there. I
am from Jalpa, Zacatecas and I am going there this coming week for a wedding
but will try to obtain documents of the data that I already have and try to
get more information on the town history. GOOD LUCK!!!!



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Comment

Yvonne, yes Jalpa is a pretty little town (not so little anymore), however, I
thought it was prettier before, yes I am being biased . Did you get to see
the museum which I have been told has a statue of the indian Tenamaztle. If you
know where it is please let me know. Besides, la plaza, el santaurio and el
templo del señor de Jalpa (which also I think the old inside architecture
should have been renovated and not eliminatedl) what other sites did you see?



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Spanish names

Published by Maureen Bejar –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I just wanted to share an interesting website I have found on Spanish names:

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/

http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/1554.txt

Comments

Comment

Enrique, your story is close to our family history too. My grandfather and his wife left the rest of their group and went to Idaho to work for the railroad in 1918. They lived in a boxcar and thier 1 year old son died and was buried there. They also had 1 daughter there before rejoining the rest of the family in California. They did not talk abt the experience's there with any affection.
thank you for sharing the article.
Linda in Everett

enrique legaspi wrote:
The "link" below is to an article i posted on the subject. I ran into this while during research to understand why, how my grandfather moved to Iowa.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15836

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Comment

Enrique,

That was an interesting article. My father too worked on the railroads in those years in Colorado and into Wyoming and Kansas. It would be interesting to see an update to this article that was written in 1988, especially since some communities are so up in arms about immigration that Anglos view mostly as illegal and negative. It reflects on us, well, those of us who were born here but look definitely "Mexican". I mean, when they don't know us, we are viewed suspiciously and resentfully.

It was interesting to see that back then even some American-born Mexicans were deported when the government wanted only Americans (meaning Anglos) to take the jobs that were available after the War. When Pete Wilson, the former Governor of California when I was still living there, wanted to deport even second-generation American born Mexicans, my sister and I dug up our father's naturalization papers in case the "Migra" stopped us and tried to deport us, ha, ha. I think migration from Mexico has reached such a point that it will be impossible to stop or even subdue a little. Several communities are being destabilized by the "rounding up" and deportation or holding in detention camps of some groups of illegals, many with small children.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: enrique legaspi
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Scholarly Article on Mexican Migration to Iowain the early 1900's

The "link" below is to an article i posted on the subject. I ran into this while during research to understand why, how my grandfather moved to Iowa.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15836

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Comment

I am certainly watchful of the reaction of so many people to immigrants who are here legally or or not. I am fortunate one. I was able to come across the border with papers. Each time there is a vote or some referendum on immigration I wonder how many of those who vote against immigrants vote with their hypocrisy. In my view, as long as we benefit, as a ciountry and encourage immigration to promote our countries econommic needs - in the fields or factoryies; typically, I always say...let's think of human dignity and hard work, which my father, and grandfather had and did!

Emilie Garcia wrote: Enrique,

That was an interesting article. My father too worked on the railroads in those years in Colorado and into Wyoming and Kansas. It would be interesting to see an update to this article that was written in 1988, especially since some communities are so up in arms about immigration that Anglos view mostly as illegal and negative. It reflects on us, well, those of us who were born here but look definitely "Mexican". I mean, when they don't know us, we are viewed suspiciously and resentfully.

It was interesting to see that back then even some American-born Mexicans were deported when the government wanted only Americans (meaning Anglos) to take the jobs that were available after the War. When Pete Wilson, the former Governor of California when I was still living there, wanted to deport even second-generation American born Mexicans, my sister and I dug up our father's naturalization papers in case the "Migra" stopped us and tried to deport us, ha, ha. I think migration from Mexico has reached such a point that it will be impossible to stop or even subdue a little. Several communities are being destabilized by the "rounding up" and deportation or holding in detention camps of some groups of illegals, many with small children.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: enrique legaspi
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Scholarly Article on Mexican Migration to Iowain the early 1900's

The "link" below is to an article i posted on the subject. I ran into this while during research to understand why, how my grandfather moved to Iowa.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15836

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Comment

Emilie Garcia,
Read that your father worked for the Railroad in Wyoming. My father worked for the Union Pacific RR in Cheyenne,Wy.
He started in1941-1950. Transferred to Gearing ,Ne. for 9years. He finished his 30 years service in North Platte,Ne.He worked in the round house.
I`m real curious be cause Rail roaders are a tight group and know each other.
Where did your father work in Wy ? And what years? Manuel
enrique legaspi wrote:
I am certainly watchful of the reaction of so many people to immigrants who are here legally or or not. I am fortunate one. I was able to come across the border with papers. Each time there is a vote or some referendum on immigration I wonder how many of those who vote against immigrants vote with their hypocrisy. In my view, as long as we benefit, as a ciountry and encourage immigration to promote our countries econommic needs - in the fields or factoryies; typically, I always say...let's think of human dignity and hard work, which my father, and grandfather had and did!

Emilie Garcia wrote: Enrique,

That was an interesting article. My father too worked on the railroads in those years in Colorado and into Wyoming and Kansas. It would be interesting to see an update to this article that was written in 1988, especially since some communities are so up in arms about immigration that Anglos view mostly as illegal and negative. It reflects on us, well, those of us who were born here but look definitely "Mexican". I mean, when they don't know us, we are viewed suspiciously and resentfully.

It was interesting to see that back then even some American-born Mexicans were deported when the government wanted only Americans (meaning Anglos) to take the jobs that were available after the War. When Pete Wilson, the former Governor of California when I was still living there, wanted to deport even second-generation American born Mexicans, my sister and I dug up our father's naturalization papers in case the "Migra" stopped us and tried to deport us, ha, ha. I think migration from Mexico has reached such a point that it will be impossible to stop or even subdue a little. Several communities are being destabilized by the "rounding up" and deportation or holding in detention camps of some groups of illegals, many with small children.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: enrique legaspi
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Scholarly Article on Mexican Migration to Iowain the early 1900's

The "link" below is to an article i posted on the subject. I ran into this while during research to understand why, how my grandfather moved to Iowa.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15836

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Comment

Manuel,

My father was old enough to be my grandfather, and he rarely spoke to me about his life prior to his marriage to my mother. He was almost 40 when they married, and he was born in 1903 in Jerez and came to Colorado when he was 10 years old. I don't know when he worked on the RR; it had to be in the 20s or 30s (I was born in Colorado in 1939). I only know about the work on the RR because he once mentioned that the work he had done in the roundhouses was the hardest work he had ever done, harder than growing beets or wheat which he did after he married my mother. I also only know that he was in Wyoming because he once mentioned that the best chili beans he had ever had was at a diner that he used to frequent someplace in Wyoming. I guess those bowls of chili with crackers was the closest thing they had to Mexican food in those parts. I sure wish I had asked him what RR and where in Wyoming.

Maybe you can find some records for the Union Pacific that might list your father or mine? Also, why was the work in the roundhouses so hard? Was it that it was year-round, even in the dead of winter when it got so cold up there? What do they do in roundhouses? I guess they lube and wash and service the locomotives? Where were the roundhouses in Wyoming located?

Thanks,

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: manuel castillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Scholarly Article on Mexican Migration toIowain the early 1900's

Emilie Garcia,
Read that your father worked for the Railroad in Wyoming. My father worked for the Union Pacific RR in Cheyenne,Wy.
He started in1941-1950. Transferred to Gearing ,Ne. for 9years. He finished his 30 years service in North Platte,Ne.He worked in the round house.
I`m real curious be cause Rail roaders are a tight group and know each other.
Where did your father work in Wy ? And what years? Manuel
enrique legaspi > wrote:
I am certainly watchful of the reaction of so many people to immigrants who are here legally or or not. I am fortunate one. I was able to come across the border with papers. Each time there is a vote or some referendum on immigration I wonder how many of those who vote against immigrants vote with their hypocrisy. In my view, as long as we benefit, as a ciountry and encourage immigration to promote our countries econommic needs - in the fields or factoryies; typically, I always say...let's think of human dignity and hard work, which my father, and grandfather had and did!

Emilie Garcia wrote: Enrique,

That was an interesting article. My father too worked on the railroads in those years in Colorado and into Wyoming and Kansas. It would be interesting to see an update to this article that was written in 1988, especially since some communities are so up in arms about immigration that Anglos view mostly as illegal and negative. It reflects on us, well, those of us who were born here but look definitely "Mexican". I mean, when they don't know us, we are viewed suspiciously and resentfully.

It was interesting to see that back then even some American-born Mexicans were deported when the government wanted only Americans (meaning Anglos) to take the jobs that were available after the War. When Pete Wilson, the former Governor of California when I was still living there, wanted to deport even second-generation American born Mexicans, my sister and I dug up our father's naturalization papers in case the "Migra" stopped us and tried to deport us, ha, ha. I think migration from Mexico has reached such a point that it will be impossible to stop or even subdue a little. Several communities are being destabilized by the "rounding up" and deportation or holding in detention camps of some groups of illegals, many with small children.

Comment

Emilie, et al:

Your inquiries have me thinking here... The freight railroads are one of our principal clients here and when I first started working for my firm we were finalizing the privatization of the railroad retirement system. I worked on that quite a bit and am pretty familiar with it all.

Basically railroad workers are exempt from social security taxes because the railroad retirement system predates social security (much like teacher pension plans in many states). The Railroad Retirement Board manages calculations of benefits and disbursement of funds even though the money is now manages by a non-governmental trust.

Given that the RRB is a government agency, I imagine they are required to release information through a Freedom of Information Act request similar to the way one can obain social security records from the Social Security Administration for deceased individuals. That may be worth a try because I know that the RRB would have to have pretty detailed employment records for its beneficiaries in order to do their benefit calculations.

Comment

Thanks, Arturo,

I will give the RRB a try.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Railroad records

Emilie, et al:

Your inquiries have me thinking here... The freight railroads are one of our principal clients here and when I first started working for my firm we were finalizing the privatization of the railroad retirement system. I worked on that quite a bit and am pretty familiar with it all.

Basically railroad workers are exempt from social security taxes because the railroad retirement system predates social security (much like teacher pension plans in many states). The Railroad Retirement Board manages calculations of benefits and disbursement of funds even though the money is now manages by a non-governmental trust.

Given that the RRB is a government agency, I imagine they are required to release information through a Freedom of Information Act request similar to the way one can obain social security records from the Social Security Administration for deceased individuals. That may be worth a try because I know that the RRB would have to have pretty detailed employment records for its beneficiaries in order to do their benefit calculations.

New to the listserv

Published by Dr. Rosa Espin… –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Dear Group Members:

I am new to this listserv and new to the genealogical investigation.
Consequently, I know that I will need your guidance. I have been very
impressed with the discussions. I am interested in the following areas: Los

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Tue, 2007-03-13 06:56 | Permalink

Comment

Rosa:

Welcome to the group. As a new genealogist, I would suggest you begin by getting some software. PAF is put out by LDS for free and is very good software. It is imperative to keep very good records, including sources, from the onset.

Next, I would suggest going to the "Films" section and finding the relevant municipalities to see if they are indexed in the LDS databases. If they are you will see "IGI" or "VRI" buttons next to the film number and description. Clicking on the button will give you the full contents of the film which you can then delimit by surname, first name, etc. Arandas, for example, is fully indexed so if you have the names of your great-grandparents you should be able to find their marriage and/or baptism certificates.

Next, you should find your nearest family history center and order the relevant films where you know or suspect your ancestors information is listed. Indices are often wrong so it is worth verifying and even when they are correct, the actual record has much more information than what is extracted for the index.

You should also browse or search through the user profiles and see if others are researching your towns or surnames. Many of us have found relatives through this group.

It is also useful to download the Nuestros Ranchos user guide which you will find in the "Files" "Reference Materials" section of the site.

Good luck.

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