mtDNA and other DNA

Wow, Victor, I printed out your wonderful explanation below.  I think
I am beginning to grasp something.  I remember learning something about
chromosomes from school so very long ago.  Also, the man next door talked
about some monster criminals, murderers, who were shown to be "YY".  I
thought I recalled that men were "XY" and women were "XX".  YY's would be
genetic monsters, no?  They should be locked up or killed. They are not
really human if they exist.  I wonder if my neighbor was joking.  I
know that often I don't get the jokes.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:50
PM
Subject: [ranchos] mtDNA and other
DNA

Josie,

At the risk of oversimplifying this whole
thing, I'm posting a few
essential concepts about DNA. Please excuse me if
I sound patronizing.

We all have heard that DNA is the blueprint of
life.  And it is!  Or
to be more

Capirotada- Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Joseph,
 
If you can read recipes in a book and follow them, you could make
"capirotada" yourself.  When I went to New Orleans and to League City TX,
they served something called "bread pudding" that was just like my mother's
capirotada.  My mother was from New Mexico, where the Anglos' southern
style cooking was an influence along with everything else.  My mother used
to tear up pieces of bread and toast them then made a simple syrup and layered
the toasted bread with grated cheddar cheese and raisins and then pour the hot
syrup over it and let it sit awhile.  If you look up a recipe for
Southern-style bread pudding, you could make yourself some capirotada. 
There are so many versions of it.  I really liked the one in the South with
bourbon sauce in it--yum!  Don't any of the restaurants in your area serve
bread puddings?
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November

mtDNA and other DNA

Josie,

At the risk of oversimplifying this whole thing, I'm posting a few
essential concepts about DNA. Please excuse me if I sound patronizing.

We all have heard that DNA is the blueprint of life.  And it is!  Or
to be more exact, each organism's DNA is its own blueprint of life. 
Just think how it is possible to clone an animal (make an exact
genetic replica) from the DNA found in the nucleus of a single cell. 
And notice that in theory a clone could be made from practically every
cell in the body, as most cells have a copy of all their DNA, their
full genome.

Although each cell with a nucleus has their full genome it only has a
small section of it activated, the specific section that contains the
instructions that each cell must carry out.  Imagine a huge theater
performance with many, many actors, where every actor has a copy of
the whole script but some actors only have to read a few lines or a
few pages at most.  So it is with cells; each one has differentiated
to play a

DNA and the Today show.

Jose Ramon,
 
Cuando leo tus correos siento que escribes con tanta pasion y mucha sabiduria. Es un honor para el grupo que seas uno de los integrantes. Agregas algo muy rico a la mezcla de Ranchos. Yo tambien busco con anhelo mis raices mestizas, castas o indigenas y creo que mantengo una mente abierta para poder ver lo que se presente por enfrente.
 
Jose Ramon,
 
When I read your postings I feel that you write with much passion and knowledge. It's an honor for this group to have you as a member. You add much to the knowledgeable mix of Ranchos ( I am not very knowledgeable yet! ). I too search with zeal for my mestizo, caste or indigenous roots and I believe and hope that I should always keep my mind open so that when the facts present themselves, whatever they may be I will be open and present to the reality.
 
Thanks for your contributions,
 
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

José Román González López wrote:
Hi Emilie:
Thanks for your msg.
 
I had has a great reading of

Arturo's comments about Gary Felix Mexico DNA project

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos"  wrote:
>
> Gary is only focused on yDNA... paternal lines and his group is very 
> much focused on the "conquistadores" and Spanish lineages.
> 
> The mtDNA data for Mexico shows that most of the maternal genetic 
> material in modern Mexico is indigenous and given the demographic 
> collapse that occured shortly after contact with the Spanish, and the 
> subsequent movement of indigenous labor around the country, the mtDNA 
> information would draw a very different picture than the data Gary is 
> gathering.
> 
> We might be able to trace the ethnic groups of our indigenous 
> ancestors or at the very least learn about the migration patterns and 
> settlement waves that resulted in the indigenous population of Mexico.

Arturo, 

I asked Gary Felix to comment on your email. I think we all understand that the Americas, 
particularly Mexico and South America, are the mixing of three major cultures/races: 
European

DNA and the Today show.

Hi Emilie:
Thanks for your msg.
 
I had has a great reading of vital records (parish and civil) for my Genealogy, and to an others, that work is my principal source of information; the DNA projects are relatively new for my knowledge, this is very impacting for me (a little time more, and I could be "s - t - o - n - e - d", por poco me quedo "de una pieza", como decimos en español), and I considered it a important advance to the Family History.
 
Talking about the integration of a new culture (Latin-Americans), as the beginning of a new "raza" or "mezcla de razas" (White, Indigenous, Negroe, Asiatic, etc.) in America, I know that this is called "mestizaje"; but if the interaction between different etnias or cultures, in other places (not in America) as the DNA Project is showing, I think that Victor (saludos Víctor), is regarding to a new concept which is need describe it with another word, only
for the "mezcla" before of the "mestizaje" in the New Spain (and other places of

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

I have uploaded an article into the files section of Ranchos2 that 
explores the relationship between genetics and Latin American 
(particularly Mexican) history.  It has some intersting data on mtDNA 
distributions among different ethinc groups in what is now the U.S. 
and Mexico.

Genetics and Latin American History.pdf

Surprisingly, the fact that we are all haplogroup A points to our 
maternal ancestors coming to the region after Spanish contact 
(probably from further south) since the groups indigenous to the area 
we are studying tend to have relatively high levels of haplogroup B 
populations.

The following is a link to a very well researched Spanish language 
article on the indigenous populations of the Colotlan/Bolanos area at 
the time of Spanish contact:

http://www.ejournal.unam.mx/historia_novo/ehn09/EHN00907.pdf



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino"  
wrote:
>
> Hi!  
>  
> Someone once explained to me that the mtDNA results were, in some

Believe--- Re: [ranchos 2]

For your information and if you want to post some questions about DNA: 

This is the link to the Ybase Forum moderated by Gary Felix.
http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511

(You have to register and get a username to participate)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
>
> well it wouldn't be me to talk on DNA stuff, well not much anyway.
> 
> why not ask Gary Felix and then forward the group any answers you might 
> receive. or go to that discussion group moderated by Gary that Ed 
> mentioned.
> 
> I just don't know enough to comment.
> 
> joseph
> 
> beelieve wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone in our group,
> >  I am always so very interested in everything I read from our group.
> > I am new at this whole thing but am s l o w l y learning. Much thanks 
> > to Joseph,Arturo and Deena for all your intro help. My DNA results( 
> > via National Geographic special/family tree) on the maternal side are;
> > HER Haplography BE
> > HER differences from

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show - Capirotada

Sorry, Emilie.  That was supposed to be a humorous remark about our
diverse genetic make up in Mexico in reference to all the different
haplogroups of Ed's grandparents.

I was just trying to find an equivalent expression to "heinz 57" in
the US, when someone has a mix of several ancestries.  

Capirotada is a typical sweet Mexican dessert made up of a lot of
ingredients, as Joseph remembers.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
>
> Victor,
> 
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is not
in my Spanish dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza". 
What say you, Jose Roman?  What do they call it in Mexico?
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: v.h.villarrealmailto:raices_regias@y...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.commailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:00 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show
>

Capirotada

Joseph and Emilie,
 
You are invited over for capirotada but you must wait until Lent. Capirotada is a lenten food as it was usually made with day old bread and tortillas and any leftover fruits, nuts and cheeses. It was meant to be penitential, who would have thunk that it would be a much coveted Mexican gourment dessert.
 
My husband is famous for his lenten capirotada, not as in Emeril TV famous but as in San Jose local family famous.
 
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

Joseph Puentes wrote:



Emilie Garcia wrote:

> Victor,
>
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"? However, that word is not
> in my Spanish dictionary. I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza".
> What say you, Jose Roman? What do they call it in Mexico?

Victor is in Mexico as much as Jose Roman. Donde vives Victor?

Victor can you put a little capirotada in a jar and send it to me?:

Joseph Puentes
PO Box 12123
Durham, NC 27709

I haven't had capirotada in over 20 years and i absolutely love it. My
mom didn't make it every

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

Hi! 
 
Someone once explained to me that the mtDNA results were,
in some cases, the result of Spaniards marrying the "local girls" ........is
this what you are referring to, Arturo?    I do not understand
these numbers.....I am just trying to make heads or tails out of it......and to
justify the $$$$ I spent to get these numbers!  :-)  
Seriously, I don't mind spending the money if it will give
me some clues as to my ancestors, the migration pattern they followed,
etc.  I have only researched about three or four generations on my Dad's
maternal line and three or four on my Mom's maternal and paternal lines so I
have a long way to go.  I have been focusing on my Dad's paternal Trevino
lineage and go "way back" to about the 1400s in Spain. 
 
I really enjoy reading the messages everyone is sending
regarding Y-DNA and mtDNA because I am slowing learning a little here and
there.  What I really like is finding out that I have matches to a few in
this group, Linda, Victor

Believe--- Re: [ranchos 2]

well it wouldn't be me to talk on DNA stuff, well not much anyway.



why not ask Gary Felix and then forward the group any answers you might
receive. or go to that discussion group moderated by Gary that Ed
mentioned.



I just don't know enough to comment.



joseph



beelieve wrote:

Hello everyone in our group,
 I am always so very interested in
everything I read from our group.
I am new at this whole thing but am s
l o w l y
learning. Much thanks to Joseph,Arturo and Deena for
all your intro help. My DNA results( via National Geographic
special/family tree) on the maternal side are;
HER Haplography BE
HER differences from CRS
16172C
16183C
16189C
16217C
16391A
16519C
 I have not as of yet been contacted
from anyone with a similar match, but I am hopeful there is someone out
there. Also if ANYONE can help me make heads or tails of what of  these
numbers mean, I sure would like your help.I know my ancestors were from
Zacatecas, Mexico. When I first

Why Brothers DNA???---Romero DNA





Linda R Romero wrote:

First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and  
suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.   
Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow.  I am late  
in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to  
Arizona.  All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor  
visits are taking longer than anticipated.  However, the latest DNA  
postings have stopped me in my tracks.

My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to  
track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.

so you did your Dad's mtDNA but not his YDNA???

if you did your dad's YDNA (not sure) then why would you do your
brother's YDNA? it would be the same as your dad, that is unless he
just wants to have it done for his own interest.



joseph


16428[A]
16256[T]
16270[T]
16399[G]
249[G]
263[G]	
73[G]
16362[C]

My brother has agreed to have his DNA tested for my research.  I have

Maternal Lineage in Tepetongo/Huejucar-Re: [ranchos]





Emilie Garcia wrote:

Hello, Elvira?
 
(I can't tell who is writing what in the messages below). 
However, one comment peaked my interest:  "maternal
lines in (or back to) Zacatecas, especially  Tepetongo to test for
mtDNA.  I don't think anyone has started a Zacatecas  mtDNA project
yet...::Grin::"  
I must confess that all
this talk about DNA and Haplogroups and "numbers" is way over my head. 
However, I am very interested in your particular results, since you
state that you are looking for more people with maternal lineage in the
area of Tepetongo, Zacatecas.

I've yet to ask my cousin to do a Mt-DNA test to
find the exact results of my Dad's mom's side of the family that goes
directly to the Salitral Ranchos of the Tepetongo Cabezera, but I do
have my Mt-DNA tests in the folder that take me back to Huejucar which
is not far. But those results show that an African Eve (L1-a) entered
into my lineage at some point.



joseph

Capirotada- Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show





Emilie Garcia wrote:

Victor,
 
I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is
not in my Spanish dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza". 
What say you, Jose Roman?  What do they call it in Mexico?

Victor is in Mexico as much as Jose Roman. Donde vives Victor?



Victor can you put a little capirotada in a jar and send it to me?:



Joseph Puentes

PO Box 12123

Durham, NC 27709



I haven't had capirotada in over 20 years and i absolutely love it. My
mom didn't make it every year but probably on average of every other
year. I used to over indulge. But she did make on the order of 30 dozen
tamales every year with us kids sitting around the table spreading the
masa (thankfully only when she could capture us). My sisters used to be
made to do the whole procedure when they were younger.



joseph



ps: do they have Jalisco Capirotada, Zacatecas Capirotada and
Aguascalientes Capirotada? Boy I'd love to try all three versions even
if they

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Emily,

I think they call it "Mexican"; I am joking and not joking. Seriously, there are no pure 
Spaniards down there anymore unless they emigrated in the last generation. I am told that 
there are some pure Native American Indians though.

Ed
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"  wrote:
>
> Victor,
> 
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is not in my Spanish 
dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza".  What say you, Jose Roman?  What do 
they call it in Mexico?
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: v.h.villarrealmailto:raices_regias@y...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.commailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:00 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show
> 
> 
>   --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.commailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com>, "Edward 
Serros" mailto:ed@s>...> wrote:
>   > 
>   > For starters I have 4

Romero DNA

Linda,

What mtDNA haplogroup did they assign you? Who provided the specimen?

Your brother has your father's Y-DNA and he has your mtDNA and your mother's mtDNA, 
assuming you have the same parents. The latter assumption sometimes is a huge 
assumption and leads to very interesting discussions.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Linda R Romero  wrote:
>
> First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and  
> suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.   
> Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow.  I am late  
> in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to  
> Arizona.  All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor  
> visits are taking longer than anticipated.  However, the latest DNA  
> postings have stopped me in my tracks.
> 
> My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to  
> track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.
> 
> 16428[A]
> 16256[T

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

Gary is only focused on yDNA... paternal lines and his group is very 
much focused on the "conquistadores" and Spanish lineages.

The mtDNA data for Mexico shows that most of the maternal genetic 
material in modern Mexico is indigenous and given the demographic 
collapse that occured shortly after contact with the Spanish, and the 
subsequent movement of indigenous labor around the country, the mtDNA 
information would draw a very different picture than the data Gary is 
gathering.

We might be able to trace the ethnic groups of our indigenous 
ancestors or at the very least learn about the migration patterns and 
settlement waves that resulted in the indigenous population of Mexico.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"  
wrote:
>
> Arturo,
> 
> I thought Gary Felix' was the Mexico DNA group.
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Arturo Ramosmailto:arturo.ramos2@v...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.comma

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Victor,
 
I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is not
in my Spanish dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza". 
What say you, Jose Roman?  What do they call it in Mexico?
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:00
AM
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Trevino match, DNA
and the Today show

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward
Serros" ed@s...>
wrote:
>
> For starters I have 4 grandparents (Serros, Felguerez,
Salas,
Suarez) and the following is
> the DNA data that I have
gathered. They all have a "story", which in
some cases made me
>
check a great grandparent line. The results sometimes help when we
get to
the genealogy
> road blocks that we all arrive at.
>
>
Felguerez great grandfather (Y-DNA haplogroup K), Pinedo (mtDNA
haplogroup
A), Cerros
> (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b1c*) Salas (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b),

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

Arturo,
 
I thought Gary Felix' was the Mexico DNA group.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:52
AM
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Haplogroup A
ancestor---we are a match

Margarita:

Is your father still living?  If he
did the test, you would be able
to trace both his maternal (mtDNA) and
paternal (yDNA) lineages.  If
your cousin Humberto did it, he would
not have your father's yDNA but
would have his mtDNA, whereas if your
cousin Bobby did it, he would
have your father's yDNA but not your
father's mtDNA.  However, his
father (your uncle) would have the same
yDNA and mtDNA as your
father.  I guess you could have to have both
of them do the test...
Humberto can do the mtDNA and Bobby can do the
yDNA.

If you join Gary Felix's project you can get a 12-marker yDNA for
$99
and a low-resolution mtDNA for $129.  You get a discount on the

Archived Message

Hello, Elvira?
 
(I can't tell who is writing what in the messages below).  However,
one comment peaked my interest:  "maternal lines in (or
back to) Zacatecas, especially  Tepetongo to test for mtDNA.  I don't
think anyone has started a Zacatecas  mtDNA project
yet...::Grin::"  
I must confess that all this
talk about DNA and Haplogroups and "numbers" is way over my head.  However,
I am very interested in your particular results, since you state that you are
looking for more people with maternal lineage in the area of Tepetongo,
Zacatecas.  My mother was from the Juarez-New Mexico area, descended from
settlers who had been there since the 1500's, so I guess my DNA would only
follow her maternal lines.  However, my father's people for two hundred
years that I have studied so far (back to the early 1700s) in the Tepetongo area
(Salitrillo, to be exact) never lived anywhere else until my father and his
father immigrated to the States in 1916. 
 
 Unfortunately, my father

Romero DNA

First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and
suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.
Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow. I am late
in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to
Arizona. All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor
visits are taking longer than anticipated. However, the latest DNA
postings have stopped me in my tracks.


My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to
track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.


16428[A]
16256[T]
16270[T]
16399[G]
249[G]
263[G]	
73[G]
16362[C]

My brother has agreed to have his DNA tested for my research. I have
made neither heads nor tails of my mtDNA information before now. I
guess I will need a class to learn more.


Your kindness in answering my questions and our similar mtDNA results
have made me feel like a real member of this group. I plan on more
active participation

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros"  wrote:
> 
> For starters I have 4 grandparents (Serros, Felguerez, Salas,
Suarez) and the following is 
> the DNA data that I have gathered. They all have a "story", which in
some cases made me 
> check a great grandparent line. The results sometimes help when we
get to the genealogy 
> road blocks that we all arrive at.
> 
> Felguerez great grandfather (Y-DNA haplogroup K), Pinedo (mtDNA
haplogroup A), Cerros 
> (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b1c*) Salas (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b), Suarez
(Y-DNA haplogroup 
> Q), Sosa (mtDNA haplogroup C).
> 
> Ed
> 

Ed,

The Americans talk about the "melting pot";  the Canadians speak about
a "mosaic".  The Italians tutti frutti.

What could we call the Mexican mix?  Capirotada?  Sopa de Letras?

Victor






Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Josie,

I would be happy to share with you my DNA and discuss your results, here or by private 
email. We have a small Hispanic discussion group that deals with DNA results, as well as 
history. If I can not figure out something, they probably can or at least they can say what is 
known. Gary Felix, Mexico DNA project, is the moderator of this informal group. We all 
have varied DNA backgrounds but our families were all from Mexico. For starters you 
should review the information Gary has on his home page, showing results of the 
Mexicans/Mexican-Americans who have submitted DNA samples, http://
members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm.

BTW, Spencer Wells was on the Today show this am and did a great job describing the 
story that was told by the mtDNA  of the news people Katie, Matt, and Al. Spencer Wells is 
in charge of the largest DNA project ever attempted. He has written a number of important 
books on DNA, making it simpler to understand our complex relationships.

For

[ranchos 2]

Hello everyone in our group,
 I am always so very interested in everything
I read from our group.
I am new at this whole thing but am s l o w
l y
learning. Much thanks to Joseph,Arturo and Deena for all your intro
help. My DNA results( via National Geographic special/family tree) on the
maternal side are;
HER Haplography BE
HER differences from CRS
16172C
16183C
16189C
16217C
16391A
16519C
 I have not as of yet been contacted from
anyone with a similar match, but I am hopeful there is someone out there. Also
if ANYONE can help me make heads or tails of what of  these numbers mean, I
sure would like your help.I know my ancestors were from Zacatecas, Mexico. When
I first started with Rancho's, I had the name of my ggg grandmother Ancelma
Rodriguez (dop 1860?) but have since (thank you Deena) found the names
only
 of a couple more generations.They are,Agustina Ramirez and her
mother Maria de Jesus Hernandez.
Thank you all for your input!
Hope