Nuestros Ranchos Site

English:

Twice I have tried to trace back my last name past 1862, but every time I arrive at a dead end. While I have been able to trace my parents’ other last names further back (Ruiz Velasco, Aguirre, Aguirre), Ramos still remains a mystery for me, and thus I turn to you.

The man in question is Inocencio Ramos. Inhabitant of Sayula, Jalisco. I have struggled to find his birth certificate in order to discover who his parents were.

What I know:

His wedding certificate dated August 24, 1885 with Eligia Alvarez (Padilla). It says he is the legitimate son of Maria Merced Ramos and an unknown father. It says he is 22, putting his birth year in 1862-63. It says Eligia (23) is older than him.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL3G-B?i=685&cc=1874591&ca…

Eligia’s baptismal certificate has her being born in December 1862. Inocencio must have been born afterwards.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G28W-K?i=36&cc=1874591&cat…

Here is where it gets tricky. As follows are the birth certificates of Inocencio and Eligia’s children. They are important mainly because I want to know who Inocencio’s father was.

Margarita Ramos (1887). Paternal grandparents: Maria Ramos & unknown.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL9J-95?mode=g&i=221&cc=18…

Margarita Ramos (1889). Paternal grandparents: Francisco Ramos & Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL9J-TV?mode=g&i=431&cc=18…

Ruperto Ramos (1892). Paternal grandparents: Jose Ramos & Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR9S-7J?mode=g&i=142&cc=18…

Maria Bartola (1894). Paternal grandparents: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR99-RQ?mode=g&i=323&cc=18…

Francisco (1896). Paternal grandparents: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orosco
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRJK-F?i=175&cc=1874591&ca…

Maria Paz (1900). Paternal grandparents: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orozoco
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRJC-8?mode=g&i=549&cc=187…

As you can guess I am confused as to who the grandfather could be. Why was Maria’s last name Ramos before the spouse was known? Could it be that Francisco and Jose Maria are brothers? Are one of them the father? I would appreciate any help in this regard. Maybe a search for Inocencio with a different last name to a mother Maria Merced of a different last name around 1863
.
Thank you!

---------------------------------------

Espanol

Dos vezes e tratado de buscar mis antepasados mas alla de 1862, pero cada vez no puedo. Aunque mis otros apellidos an sido mas facil (Ruiz Velasco, Aguirre y Aguirre), me atoro siempre con Ramos, y por eso les pido ayuda.

El hombre que me confunde es Inocencio Ramos, originario y vecino de Sayula, Jalisco. E tratado (sin logro) buscar su registro de bautismo o nacimiento civil.

Lo que se:

Su registro de matrimonio en el 24 de Agosto, 1885 con Eligia Alvarez (Padilla). Dice que es hijo legitimo de Maria Merced Ramos y de padre desconocido. Dice q tiene 22 anos de edad. Eso pondria su nacimiento en 1862-63. Dice que Eligia (23) es mayor que el.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL3G-B?i=685&cc=1874591&ca…

EL registro de bautismo de Eligia la tiene nacida el Diciembre 1862. Ynocencio seria nacido despues.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G28W-K?i=36&cc=1874591&cat…

Aqui es donde se pone complicado. Siguen los registros bautismales de sus hijos. Son importantes por su referncia a los abuelos paternos.

Margarita Ramos (1887). Abuelos paternos: Maria Ramos & unknown.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL9J-95?mode=g&i=221&cc=18…

Margarita Ramos (1889). Abuelos paternos: Francisco Ramos & Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GL9J-TV?mode=g&i=431&cc=18…

Ruperto Ramos (1892). Abuelos paternos: Jose Ramos & Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR9S-7J?mode=g&i=142&cc=18…

Maria Bartola (1894). Abuelos paternos: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orosco.
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR99-RQ?mode=g&i=323&cc=18…

Francisco (1896). Abuelos paternos: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orosco
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRJK-F?i=175&cc=1874591&ca…

Maria Paz (1900). Abuelos paternos: Jose Maria Ramos & Maria Merced Orozoco
Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRJC-8?mode=g&i=549&cc=187…

Como pueden observar estoy confundido a quien podria ser el abuelo. Porque la madre se conocia como Ramos en su registro de bodas pero sin saber el padre? Podrian ser Francisoc y Jose Maria hermanos? O uno de ellos el padre? Aprecio cual quier ayuda en esto. Tal vez, una busca por Inocencio bajo otro apellido con una madre Maria Merced de otro apellido naciod en 1863 seria bueno.

Perdonen la ortografia. Muchas gracias!

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Does anyone have any information on Miguel Gomez and Maria Martel from
Aguascalientes, born probly around 1680. The only thing i know is there
names from their daugters informacion matrimonial that that gives there
names. There daughter Gertrudis Gomez also used the name Maria Martel like
her mom:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DYM7-NTY

Danny C. Alonso

Estimados amigos de nuestros Ranchos:

Después de muchos años de investigación, he podido formar mi Árbol Genealógico, bien documentado hasta Mateo Navarro, casado con Gerónima Briseño Gaytán que a finales del siglo XVI vivían en Zamora o Tlazazalca, Obispado de Michoacán, Nueva España.

De los padres y abuelos de Mateo Navarro, tango información que aún no se ha podido documentar, según la cual sus padres fueron: Pedro Navarro nacido en Pátzcuaro y Catalina de la Cerda.
Sus abuelos: Mateo o Matheo Navarro, soldado español, casado con una hija del último emperador de Michoacán Tangaxoan II. La novia recibió el nombre cristiano de Catalina de la Cerda, por haber sido el padrino el Capitán Juan de la Cerda. Me imagino que la bautizaron antes de casarla.

Las preguntas que tengo, con la esperanza de que alguien de nuestro grupo me ayude a contestar son:

1 - Hubo dos Catalinas de la Cerda ? Una Purépecha (Tarasca), esposa del soldado Matheo Navarro y otra española, esposa de Pedro Navarro ?

2.- Alguien más sabe de la boda del soldado conquistador Mateo o Matheo Navarro con la hija del Cazonci o Calzontzin, que llevó el nombre cristiano de Catalina de la Cerda ?
Esto último según entendí sucedió entre 1522 y 1525. Lo leí hace como diez años y no tuve el cuidado de anotar la fuente, ahora no recuerdo si fué en un libro o en el internet. Entonces no puse atención,
pues núnca me imaginé que fuera mi antepasado.
Hace tres años compré un libro del cronista de Tepatitlán Don Francisco Gallegos Franco, titulado "Apellidario" y en él se menciona la dicha boda. Ahora sí me incumbe ya que mi Árbol Genealógico ha
llegado hasta el siglo XVI y existe la posibilidad de que mi Mateo Navarro sea descendiente de ése matrimonio.

Agradecería mucho si alguien me contestara con más información al respecto. Ojalá que se lleve a cabo en agosto de éste año el Coloquio de la UAA en Aguascalientes y que allá podamos vernos otra vez.

Saludos afectuosos para todos desde el Edo. de Nueva York.

En México - Bertha E. Medina Navarro de Boehm
En USA - Bertha Boehm

www.boehm-chronik.com

Need some advice, I had my DNA through AncestryDNA, since then I have accumulated a serious list of Extremely HIGH, Very HIGH and HIGH, and GOOD and Moderate. My problem whenever I contact the DNA MEMBER(S), I get a negative response or none at all, even when our trees reveal common ancestors. My tree is PUBLIC, which is easily accessible. I have notice several have their tree listed as private, or listed NO TREE in their DNA MATCH results, but, not all are PRIVATE, so I am able to access their tree and review it. Question? Is there another DNA testing entity that facilitate easier confirmation
of relation so that I or other can connect the dots, before our expiration date? I am
75 and I would love to get my tree to a respectable level. In particular my father's
lineage. What I have discovered is that we are practically related with the majority of
the founders and Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes surname. My father is another matter.
Thank you in advance. Arturo de Leon Garcia

If anyone sees jolude on your DNA matches, that's me! Would you be willing to contact me so we can help each other grow our family trees?

Thank you! 3/10/17

Hello,

My name is Vanessa Lopez and this is my first post. My paternal grandmother's line was relatively easy to trace through Zacatecas and Jalisco. I worked diligently to build her family tree in preparation for an upcoming family reunion in May. Every once in a while, I like to just google an ancestor. I did just that for Juan Chrisostomo Hurtado (1722-) and to my surprise, I discovered this amazing tree, https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Hurtado%20de%20Mendoza-Family-Tree-11, which extended back to Spain (a first for me in all of my 7 years of research.) I would like help in any of the following ways...

Do we share common ancestors based on this (unconfirmed) wiki tree? How do you feel about wiki trees in general? I am considering opting for a pro-genealogist to confirm this wiki tree information because 1300s Spanish genealogy is way beyond my capabilities.

Are you related to me (based on the attached tree segment)? I have my DNA on Ancestry and GedMatch ready for comparison.

What kinds of records are common in Spanish genealogy? I can read Spanish, but I'm only familiar with Mexican records and history.

Thanks for reading!

-Vanessa

Primos,

It occured to me that some of the NR members might be listed as DNA matches on my Ancestry DNA account. This would help locate specific lineages, and may be mutually beneficial. Please, check and see if sa2fay, Elida Gonzalez, is one of your matches, and let me know. Ancestry states I have about 448 matches for 4th cousins or closer.

La punsada que soy:)
Elida

In case you missed it, MEXICO has won its first GOLD medal of the 2012 Olympics in Mens Soccer/Football.They defeated Brazil.
Bien hecho! (Today, August 11, 2012.)

This question is from another genealogy site and I'm hoping someone can help this gentleman. The records are from Guanajuato, Mx -sorry. This is a copy & paste of his question.*****Hi everyone. I’m hoping some of you might be able to give me some insight into the listing of race on death records in Guanajuato in 1913 and 1914. I have recently found death certificates for two relatives - a great uncle and a great-great aunt, both of which listed race. They are both listed as Indigena con negra (Indigenous with Black). My initial understanding was that, at least in church records, after 1827 race was no longer indicated unless provided by the family. This is a civil registration and looking through the other records in the database, they all seem to list a race. All are listed as ______ con _______. I can’t find any pattern to how they are listed, such as x race is always listed first, y race is always listed before z, etc. I’ve also noticed in some records a race may be listed twice, such as negra con negra. It would seem to me that it is indicating parental lines, but I can’t find any online source explaining this. I would greatly appreciate any insight anyone might have on how this was recorded or should be interpreted.

Does anyone know of any websites to look up documents online that is stored at the Real Audencia of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico?

The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from Josefina to Chepa, though.

Darlene
Yorba Linda, CA

> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of M Vallazza
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>
> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>>
>>
>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>>
>>
>> Emilie
>>
>> Port Orchard, WA
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…
>
> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
> en.wiktionary.org
> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>
>
>
>>
>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>
> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
> en.wiktionary.org
> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>
>
>
>> en.wiktionary.org
>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>
>>
>>
>>

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone tell me what the parents names are on this marriage for Juan Almirante and Dolores Valenzuela:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6X2S-991

Danny C. Alonso

My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing their African ancestry in Mexico.
Katrina Link

Hola!

Quisiera pedir su ayuda en cuanto a los ancestros de Andrés Díaz de León, que era originario de Asientos y que falleció en 1777 en Aguascalientes, estuvo casado con Antonia Francisca Báez Perales, tuvieron 6 hijos: Juana María de la Santísima Trinidad Díaz de León Báez (1752-1784), María Josepha de la Santísima Trinidad Díaz de León Báez (N. 1755), María Lorenza Díaz de León Báez (1757-1783), Eusebia Gertrudis Díaz de León Báez (N. 1760), Ignacia Marcelina Díaz de León Báez (1762-1777), Luis Díaz de León Báez (M. 1786). Los hijos eran originarios del Soyatal de Maroyazgo y vivieron en Ciénega del Rincón, el Soyatal y en Aguascalientes. Me gustaría pedir de su ayuda para encontrar más información de la Familia Díaz de León. Encontré un Andrés Díaz de León Durón, también originario de Asientos, pero el falleció antes de 1775 y estuvo casado con María Estefania Carrillo Díaz de León y se casaron en Sierra de Pinos y tuvieron descendencia en las misma fechas en la Hacienda de Letras y de Encinillas. Si alguien tiene el árbol genealógico de la Familia Díaz de León y no lo pudiera compartir, se lo agradecería mucho, Gracias.

I have found the location of the 3rd panteon (Cementary) of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico.

On page 63 of Defunciones 1771-1785, 1787-1833 of Huejuquilla El Alto in familysearch.org.

This one defunto record gives the location as the Priest says:

"En el Cementario de esta iglesia detras del osario" year is 1779:

http://oi67.tinypic.com/1sochc.jpg

Looks like there was an old cementary behing the San Diego Parroquia Church.

This is a picture of the San Diego Parroquia Church. The one marked with blue arros is the San Diego Parroquia Church. So the old cementary would have been behind the church.

The green arrow marks the San Diego Capilla Church. Since there are two San Diego Churchs. One is the Capilla, which is small and the other the Parroquia, the larger church:

http://oi67.tinypic.com/awc6kh.jpg

So now there are three known pantones at Huejuquilla.

The current one which seems to have started around 1870's when the defunto records began to be recorded by civil records as well as the Catholic Church Records.

Then there was another one that was older that was on the edge of the town (east side) along the road and they say a school was built there. It is also behind where the hotel "Moras" is. That panteon was torn down in the 1970's.

And the third panteon is the one that seems to be during the 1700's behind the San Diego Church as the record indicates.

​Hola primos y primas,

I have this person in my lines (various times), and I’ve been racking my brains on him for the last couple of years. I think I’ve finally accumulated enough information to formulate a theory (albeit a very loose theory), which I’d like to air-out here, for review and discussion.

These are the 3 documents I will be referencing and dissecting:

I. IM: Juan Antonio Gaitan and Maria Manuela Muñoz, 15 Jun 1748, San Matias, Pinos
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BPDG-3?mode=g&i=572&wc=3PS…
II. Dispensa: Nicolas de Castañeda and Maria Gomez, 9 Jun 1712, San Matias, Pinos
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW39-LV?mode=g&i=489&wc=3J…
III. Dispensa: Nicolas Alonso and Petra Delgadillo, 02 Apr 1723, Teocaltiche, Jal.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6YLN-2?mode=g&i=5&wc=3J44-…

I. IM: JUAN ANTONIO GAITAN & MARIA MANUELA MUÑOZ 15 Jun 1748, San Matias, Pinos

These are my g5's, Juan Antonio Gaitan-Delgado and Maria Manuela Muñoz-Gomez. Upon first reading this IM, I was blown away, because I learned that the pretensos were 4th-cousins, and the ecclesiastical authority (bless their eternal souls!) thought it was important enough to mention​.​ They even give a tree, going back an unbelievable 4 generations:

Gonzalo Gomez de Ruelas-1-Juan Gomez de Ruelas
Maria Gomez de Ruelas-2-Blas Gomez de Ruelas
Miguel Gaitan-3-Nicolas Gomez de Sotomayor
Francisco Xavier Gaytan-4-Maria Dolores Gomez
Juan Antonio Gaitan-5-Maria Manuela Muñoz

Testigo #1 is grandfather of the bride, Nicolas Gomez de Sotomayor, age 66 (ca. 1682, Zacatecas, Zac), owner if Santa Rita, and Testigo # 2 is father of the groom, Francisco Xavier Gaitan (b. 1691, Irapuato, Gto), silver miner. I'm not convinced their genealogy is accurate, due to the number of years and generations involved, and the ages of the testigos (their info is likely 2nd-hand).

GONZALO GOMEZ

I’ve been unable to find anything on Gonzalo Gomez de Ruelas, but I have located his daughter, Maria de las Ruelas aka Maria Blanca. She married Joseph Gaitan-Castañeda, of SLP, some time between Oct 1649 and 01 Sep 1653, when they first appear together as padrinos, in Villa de Reyes, SLP. They would baptize 5 children in Sagrario SLP, between 1654-1665, and then move to Charcas, SLP, around 1670. They both died and were buried in Sagrario SLP. I still haven’t located their marriage records, so I don’t know where she’s from. They are the parents of Miguel Gaitan cc Antonia Arias de Bedoya, who arrived in Sierra de Pinos 1706-1708.

JUAN GOMEZ NIETO

I managed to track ​Juan Gomez de Ruelas back to Santa Fe, Gto; he was married to Teresa Guerrero aka Maria Teresa Martin/ez, and they baptized a number of children in different parts of Guanajuato, from 1654-1670. He died by 1683. On the baptism record for their first child, Juan Gomez is listed as "Juan Gomez Nieto." They might also be Juan Nieto and Maria Paredes aka Maria Mendoza, who baptized 2 sons in Nstra Sra de Gto, but I still haven't seen "Paredes" nor "Mendoza" anywhere else, so they're tentative. There was also a Juan Gomez Nieto and Teresa Pacheco whose daughter, Maria Gomez, married Juan Lopes de Cardenas 4 Aug 1669 in Sta Catalina Martir, DF. Also tentative (their timeline does allow all 3 dates).

GOMEZ DE RUELAS Y SOTOMAYOR

Juan Gomez and Teresa Guerrero are the progenitors of the "Gomez de Ruelas" and "Gomez de Sotomayor" surnames in Sierra de Pinos. Descendants also used "Gomez de Ruelas y Sotomayor," and various combinations of the 3 component surnames. Of their 7 confirmed children, most would migrate to Pinos, the first arriving in 1689; one branch settled on Guadalupe de los Pozos, another on Santa Rita, and another on Bocas, near Ojuelos. One daughter, Matiana Gomez de Ruelas (b. 12 Mar 1670, Nstra Sra de Gto), was married to Nicolas de Carrion. Note: "Gomez de Sotomayor" is also a dynastic surname originating in Spain, and appearing in other parts of Nueva Galicia. I don't know if there is a link.

II. DISPENSA: NICOLAS ALONSO & PETRA DELGADILLO 02 Apr 1723, Teocaltiche, Jal.

This one caught me eye, because the names “Gonzalo Gomez” and “Maria Blanca Gomez” appear, which can't be a coincidence - there must be a link between these 2 FGs. This dispensa has been referenced in other NR threads, and Don Jaime Holcombe cites it in his “Varias Cartas” (p 76).

A tree is given (I’ll include spouses' names):

Gonzalo Gomez-1-Maria de Islas y Moctezuma
(Augustina de Ruelas) (Andres Martinez de Sotomayor)
Antonio Gomez Garcia-2-Margarita de Sotomayor
(Francisca Flores de la Torres) (Joseph de Leon)
Maria Blanca Gomez-3-Rosa Manuela de Leon
(Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos) (Pedro Delgadillo)
Nicolas Alonso-4-Petra Delgadillo

Most read this as, Gonzalo Gomez and Maria de Islas are siblings, hence, Gonzalo Gomez is a son of Benito de la Isla-Lavezaris, who would be the tronco. I don’t agree with this interpretation.

We’ve all read enough of these old declarations, to know that the word “hermano” was regularly used for “cuñado.” Also, a spouse's name was used, if the relevant ancestor's name is forgotten. So one must always look into the possibility that the relationship is through the spouses, rather than through those named. In this case, it is already verified that Augustina de las Ruelas and Andres Martinez de Sotomayor are siblings, legitimate children of Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de Ruelas, who are the tronco of this tree, not Benito de la Isla. There is no mention of the pretensos descending "de dos lineas iguales," so the parentesco is likely only through the Martinez de Sotomayor. Added to that is fact that nowhere amongst the known descendants of Benito de la Isla, does the name "Gomez" appear, and nowhere amongst the known descendants of Gonzalo Gomez, does the name "Isla" appear (as far as I know). It's possible, but it's just not probable. That is my opinion. Gonzalo Gomez is not the brother of Maria de Islas nor the son of Benito de la Isla.

This opens the possibility that this Gonzalo Gomez is our man, and that he and his wife, Augustina de las Ruelas, are the progenitors of the [Gomez] + [Ruelas y Sotomayor] surname. From her timeline, Maria Blanca de Ruelas, cc Joseph Gaitan, could very well have been their daughter (their first child was baptized in 1654). But that doesn't explain why his brother, Juan Gomez, also uses the Ruelas y Sotomayor surname - unless, the genealogy given in the 1748 IM was incorrect: a generation lost, a mistaken relationship, a wrong name, surnames added (remember, it was written 100 years after the fact, by witnesses who had no contact with the earlier generations). Juan Gomez's first son was baptized in 1654, so he was a contemporary of Maria Blanca, and could be her brother. What if he was? Here's a revised tree:

(Tronco: Gonzalo Gomez cc Augustina de Ruelas)
Maria Blanca de Ruelas-1-Juan Gomez de Ruelas
Miguel Gaitan-2-Blas Gomez de Ruelas
Francisco Xavier Gaytan-3-Nicolas Gomez de Sotomayor
Juan Antonio Gaitan-4-Maria Dolores Gomez
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -5-Maria Manuela Muñoz

This works better, as far as the timeline. The pretensos would be at 4/5 and might've required a dispensa. Let's work with this model.

III. DISPENSA: NICOLAS DE CASTAÑEDA & MARIA GOMEZ 9 Jun 1712, San Matias, Pinos

Nicolas de Castañeda was son of Antonio Castañeda and Tomasa Carrion; Maria Gomez was daughter of Mathias Gomez de Sotomayor and Ysabel Ruiz de Villaseñor, and granddaughter of Juan Gomez Nieto.

They shared consanguinity in 2 lines, but we're only interested in the Nieto/Sotomayor link here.

The dispensa says they were at 4o grado, because the bride is great-granddaughter of Blas Nieto, who was brother of Jacinta de Sotomayor, who was great-grandmother of the groom. The genealogy isn’t explained, but it would look like this:

Jacinta de Sotomayor-1-Blas Nieto
(Pedro de Castañeda) ( Unknown)
Nicolas de Castañeda-2-Juan Gomez Nieto
(Ana de Vargas) (Maria Teresa Martinez Guerrero)
Antonio de Castañeda-3-Matias Gomez de Sotomayor
(Tomasa de Carrion) (Ysabel Ruiz de Villaseñor)
Nicolas de Castañeda-4-Maria Gomez Ruiz

This one has stumped many. The Castañeda line is well-documented, but no one has managed to establish the genealogy of Jacinta de Sotomayor. And Blas Nieto just drops off the map. We do see "Nieto" appear as one of Juan Gomez's surnames, who also had a son named, "Blas." So Blas Nieto is his ancestor. I just don't know if he's in the right place.

Again, ​we might be looking at this genealogy wrong, and this might be another case of "hermano=cuñado”: Jacinta de Sotomayor and Blas Nieto can easily be in-laws​, rather than siblings, and the relationship is through his wife, who a sister of Jacinta de Sotomayor.

But, we've already decided that Juan Gomez Nieto was the son of Gonzalo Gomez and Augustina de Ruelas: is Blas Nieto aka Gonzalo Gomez? Not necessarily, he might be in the wrong place, as I mentioned, he might be Gonzalo's father (I've really grown a distrust for testigos, haven't I! bear with me). Let's redo the genealogy in this dispensa, using the Gonzalo Gomez model, and using his spouse's name:

Jacinta de Sotomayor-1-Agustina de las Ruelas
Nicolas de Castañeda-2-Juan Gomez Nieto
Antonio de Castañeda-3-Matias Gomez de Sotomayor
Nicolas de Castañeda-4-Maria Gomez Ruiz

This would establish Jacinta de Sotomayor as a daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas.

This is conjecture. Take it. Throw it into your processors and please share what comes out.

Gracias y Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Here is the link to a very interesting article on the Negro in Mexico:http://www.upi.com/Analysis-Mexicos-missing-blacks-Part-3/6062102091027…

here is some info on my cousins Godoy family. Please contact me and I'll
put you in touch with him if you see a connections:

Francisco Xavier Godoy who married Maria Anttonia Casas daughter of
Manuel Casas and Ygnes Guerra in Sept 14, 1741 in Tlaltenango Sanchez
Roman Zacatecas. I also show him married to Juana Maria Miramontes who
parents are Antonio Miramontes and Maria Tereza Munos on Feb 14, 1734
Francisco Godoy parents are Francisco Godoy and Maria Rosa Llamas. Same
person or brothers? I hope to find out in the next few months. I have 5
children for Francisco and Anttonia Casas, Jose Antonio, Francisco
Tehodoro, Gertrudis Polonia , Maria Francisca and Jossept Dionicio.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

I'm interested in getting more information about the Gutierrez/
Monroy/Cortes connection, too....My family is Gutierrez & Almaraz and I
understand that the Almaraz family may be associated with the Cortes &
Monroy lineage....Does anyone have further information on that? The
Gutierrez family was from Arandas, Mexico and the Almaraz family was from
Mier....Are they connected to the Monroy/Cortes families? Many thanks for
your help.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 5:12 PM,
wrote:

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> DAILY DIGEST
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Pedro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo (baratero69@hotmail.com)
> 2. Juana de Torres y Paz Cortez de Monroy (sarod77@hotmail.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 13:27:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: baratero69@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo
> Message-ID:
> pid=0&cid=32123&uid=17461&tid=2&f09ea44d47953b696727bfa2604d47
> 4f@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hola Josie, Hace tiempo investigué a este personaje:
> https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Guti%C3%A9rrez%20de%
> 20Hermosillo-Descendants-32.
> Tuvo al menos otros dos hijos: Pedro y Cristóbal. Cristóbal también era
> conocido como Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo. Me llama la atención que en
> la Dispensa #3 todos los declarantes mencionan que Melchor y Pedro eran
> hermanos "legitimos". Espero esta información te sea de utilidad, aunque a
> mi también me deja mas dudas que respuestas. Un cordial saludo.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 14:47:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: sarod77@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juana de Torres y Paz Cortez de Monroy
> Message-ID:
> pid=32121&cid=32125&uid=14959&tid=2&1b504992f7ef18371718d2bc8987c0
> 6d@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Marcelina stated above that Don Martín Cortés "El Viejo" del reino de León
> se casó con una mujer de apellido MONROY en Extremadura y fueron padres de
> los siguientes hijos: 1. Hernando 2. Juan 3. Juan 4. Alonso 5. Martín
> Cortés de Monroy (padre de Hernán Cortés). 6. Leonor 7. María (The
> following is from the web page of Daniel Cortes Gonzales
> http://www.motecuhzoma.de/familia-Cortes.html)as stated above by
> Marcelina La
> hija ilegítima se llamó Inés Gómez de Paz. Desempeñó un importante
> papel en la vida del Conquistador Hernán Cortés. Según testimonio del
> propio Hernán Cortés en 1546, su tía Inés Gómez de Paz era hija natural
> de su abuelo, “habida con otra mujer” fuera del matrimonio legítimo. A
> los hijos de Inés: Rodrigo (Mayordomo), Pedro (Abogado en Espana) y Ana; el
> Conquistador les dio siempre el tratamiento de primos. This is how I
> understood the information
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>

while researching my Garcia lineage, I can across
this statement: los nombres de los Padres, Abuelos Paternos y Maternos se hallan
en el Libro Reservado. I happen to have the information, Regarding the daughter, Maria Anacleta Teresa Garcia Macias, born July 3, 1861, familysearch , bautismos 1861-1862, IMAGE#158, Aguascalientes, Asuncion de Maria, Parents were, Nicolas
Garcia Reyes and Pantaleona Macias, Macias; paternal grandparents were, Jose Camilo
Garcia Bocanegra and Brigida Reyes Losando; maternal; Jose Macias and YsavelMacias
(batch#) C60483-2 and GS Film number: 299485. what is the meaning of Libro Reservado? Gracias, Arturo de Leon

Se dice que Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo fue hijo natural de Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II y una hermana de su esposa legitima, Ana Gonzales Florida II. Sera cierto? Esto es lo que he encontrado hasta ahora usando en su mayor parte FamilySearch. Honestamente, tengo mas preguntas que respuestas.

Pedro tuvo varios hijos naturales o adoptados… (Pero tubo esposa???). Estos son los hijos de Pedro:

--Maria Gutierrez de Hermosillo caso con Francisco Gonzales de Robalcaba (hijo de Mateo de Robalcaba y Catharina de Sandoval) en 1684 en Nochistlan (su informacion matrimonial dice que fue originaria de Jonacatlan, vecina de Tacotlan e hija de la iglesia)

--Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo caso con Catharina Delgadillo (hija de Luis Delgadillo “El Mozo” y Maria Josefa de Yslas)

--Jose Gutierrez de Hermosillo caso con Mariana Delgadillo (hija de Luis Delgadillo “El Mozo” y Maria Josefa de Yslas)

--Antonio Gutierrez de Hermosillo caso con Leonor Ortiz de Robalcava (Nochistlan) en primeras nupcias y con Francisca Gonzales en Tepatitlan en segundas)

DISPENSAS

#1 Esta dispensa prueba que Maria y Miguel son hermanos e hijos de Pedro Gutierrez.
Dispensa del Matrimonio de Pablo Jose de Robalcaba y Maria Leonor de Placencia (Yahualica, 4/22/1784)
Pedro Gutierrez (Tronco)
Maria Gutierre – hermana de – Miguel Gutierrez
[+Francisco de Robalcaba] [+Catharina Delgadillo]
Nicolas de Robalcaba -primos hermanos- Gertrudis Gutierrez
[+Petrona de Luna] [+Alejo de Placencia]
Francisco de Robalcaba -primos segundos- Joachin de Placencia
[+Maria Francisca Sanchez] [+Manuela Alvares de la Cruz]
Pablo Jose (pretenso) – Maria Leonor (pretensa)

Testigo: Alexo de Placencia de 82 años dice ”que save, y le consta [que los pretenso] son parientes en cuarto grado de consanguinidad, por haver sido hermanos Maria Gutierrez y Miguel Gutierrez – de Maria Gutierrez vino Nicolas de Robalcaba y de Miguel Gutierrez vino Gertrudis Gutierrez…” etc…
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-653F-4P?mode=g&i=667&wc=3J…

#2 Esta dispensa dice que Maria y Jose son hermanos pero que es dudoso el parentesco.
Dispensa del matrimonio de Rafael Gutierrez y Maria Ygnacia Robalcaba (Cuquio, Dic 12, 1775)
Pedro Gutierrez (tronco)
Josef Gutierrez – hermanos- Maria Gutierrez
[+Mariana Delgadillo] [+Francisco de Robalcaba
Salvador Gutierrez - primos hermanos- Nicolas Robalcaba
[+Catharina de Vargas] [+Petrona de Luna]
Rafael Angel Gutierrez – primos segundos- Francisco Robalcaba
[+Michaela Mercado] [+M Francisca Guillen (Sanchez)]
Rafael (pretenso) – Maria Ygnacia (pretensa)

Esta dispensa pone en duda que Josef y Maria fueran hijos de Pedro Gutierrez. Testigo Don Josef Metrio Gutierrez de Aposol (Jalisco) de 55 años de edad dice “tienen parentesco de consanguinidad dudoso; por que a Josef Gutierrez lo hacen hermano de Maria Gutierrez; cuando esta estubo tenida por huerfana de la casa y cuando fallecio Rafael Angel Gutierrez la dejo un pedazo de tierra; y siendo esto asi, del dicho Josef vino Salvador Gutierrez…” etc…

Testigos: Don Josef Manuel Gonzales de Hermosillo de 55 años de edad y Don Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo de 53 años dicen “hallarse dichos pretensos ligados con parentesco de consanguinidad en cuarto grado igual: por que Pedro Gutierrez vecino que fue de este partido [Cuquio] crio en su casa a Josef Gutierrez y a Maria Gutierrez a los cuales todo el publico de esta jurisdiccion tubo y ha tenido por hijos del referido Pedro Gutierrez, no obstante el haberlos este declarado por huerfanos en su deposicion testamentaria y que los dichos Josef y Maria Gutierrez se tubieron por hijos del citado Pedro Gutierrez y en la misma conformidad sus decendientes.” [firmas de ambos] Existira todavia este testamento? Esto quiere decir que fueron adoptados?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW3K-Y?mode=g&i=439&wc=3J4…

#3 Esta dispensa prueba que Antonio fue hijo de Pedro Gutierrez y que Pedro fue hermano de Melchor lo cual quiere decir que su padre fue Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II.
Matrimonio de Antonio Gutierrez de 60 años con Francisca Gonzales Flores de 33 años (Tepatitlan, Julio 5, 1723).
Tronco (no info)
Pedro Gutierrez (hermano) Melchor Gonzales
[+????????] [+Beatriz Gonzales de Robalcaba]
Antonio (pretenso)-primos hermanos –Melchor Gonzales
- Diego Gonzales
- Francisca Flores (apellido de la madre) pretensa

Antonio dice “Melchor Gonzales y Pedro Gutierrez eran hermanos, de Melchor provino Melchor Gonzales y de este Diego Gonzales padre natural de Francisca Flores, pretensa y Pedro Gutierres fue mi padre de que se deduce que el segundo Melchor Gonzales es mi primo hermano y siendo este el segundo grado con cuarto...”

Testigo Joachin de Cervantes de 54 años dice “Antonio Gutierrez es hijo natural de Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo... hermano legitimo que fue de Melchor Gonzales de Hermosillo…”

Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II, padre de Pedro, tuvo un hijo llamado Melchor que se caso con Beatriz Gonzales de Robalcaba.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6Y5G-7?mode=g&i=368&wc=3J4…

#4 Esta dispensa tambien prueba nuevamente que Jose es hijo de Pedro y ademas indica que Pedro fue hijo natural de Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo, aunque no lo asegura.
Matrimonio de Jose Gutierrez y Josepha Lozano (Tepatitlan, 10 May 1751)
Pedro Gutierrez – hermano natural- Maria de Hermosillo
[+???????] [+Francisco Casillas y Cabrera]
Joseph Gutierrez – primos hermanos- Juana Casillas
[+Mariana Delgadillo]
Salvador Gutierrez – primos segundos – Phelipe Lozano
[+Catharina de Bargas] [+Feliciana de Acebes]
Joseph Gutierrez (pretenso) – primos terceros- Josepha Lozano (pretensa)

Los testigos estan de acuerdo en que “se a oido decir aunque no se sabe ser cierto tienen parentesco [los pretensos] en cuarto grado puro de consanguinidad por Pedro Gutierrez dicen fue hermano de Maria de Hermosillo.” Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo tuvo una hija llamada Maria de Hermosillo que se caso con Francisco Casillas y Cabrera que seria dicha Maria madre de Juana Casillas.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-668W-V?mode=g&i=127&cc=187…

En su obra “Los Gutierrez del Rancho El Molino,” Sergio Gutierrez menciona que Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II esposo de Ana Gonzales Florida II tuvo por lo menos dos hijos fuera del Matrimonio, uno de ellos Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo que segun se caso con Luisa de Hijar (p 35). En el Padron de Jalostotitlan de 1679, aparece un Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo casado con Leonor de Hijar con dos hijos Pedro y Juan. Yo dudo que sea el mismo ya que Pedro fue originario de Xonacatlan (donde vivia su padre) y despues vivio en Tacotlan/Cuquio segun documentos y su desendencia vivio en la feligresia de Cuquio/Yahualica . Ademas si Pedro vivia en Jalos, con quien se encontraban Maria, Jose, Antonio y Miguel en 1679 ya que todavia no se casaban? Maria se casaria cinco años despues y Antonio 7.

En conclusion Pedro si fue hijo natural de Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II y tubo en su casa a los hijos mencionados, aunque esta en duda si fueron sus hijos de sangre. Quien fue su madre o su esposa, si es que la tubo... no lo se, pero seguire en la busqueda. Alguien tendra mas que añadir?

Hello fellow members,

I missed the boat on PAF format being discontinued. All my information is in that format. Anyone have any suggestions on safely converting to GEDCOM? I hesitate because I don't want to lose my info. We are talking about 5 years of going through un-indexed records. Any suggestion would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Andelmo

In this Matrimonio de Ypina (Ypinas have a history with several Coronados names unknown) he reveals to son of Don Antonio de Campa y Cos that he had an affair with a relative of his that he did not find out until later it was his relative and had to reveal this to him. The Son of Campa y Cos states that his father had a natural child named Juana whose mother was a Mulata de Fresnillo. Juana de la Campa had a child named Gertrudis who was with Ypino and is therefore cousin to his pretensa.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-66SN-5W

I believe this is the family

Juana de la Campa
Deceased • K8TL-KH8 (Familysearch.org)
Married to Marcelo Flores Coronado
​

Does anyone know if this book is available for purchase and download online? I am looking for my Roman ancestors and am hoping this book could help.

Thank you!

I have not been successful in locating any information about the Patrons outside of what I have found in their records. They have been around the Nueva Galacia area since the 1640's and it appears they were in Guanajuato and possibly Mexico City. They were not mentioned in Diccionario Biografico de Antiguos Pobladores de San Luis Potosi by Rafael Morales Bocardo or any other record I know how to locate. Although, I did see on Wikitree Danny Alonso having some connection with the Padons. I have included those connections for him.

Where would I look for their possible Testaments?

It seems Sebastian Padron has a brother named Bartholome Padron (abt 1633) married to Maria del Castillo with some of their children born Guanajuato, Santa Maria del Rio and Villa de Reyes, San Luis Potosi both of those mentioned possibly.

1. Sebastian Padron (abt. 1635) m. Francisca Gonzales (they could’ve married in Guanajuato – san diego de la Union, San Felipe, or Acambaro, or in Santa Maria del Rio, San Luis Potosi, or Villa de Reyes, San Luis Potosi, or even Pinos, Zacatecas. They have, it seems, history in all of those locations but mostly in Santa Maria del Rio. They Married into the Del Castillo, Gonsales, and Torres (Thorres del Rancho de Joseph Thorres)

2. Marcos Padron (abt. 1665) 1st m: Agustina Gutierres 4 December 1687
2nd m: Michaela Martines Espindola 28 Jun 1706

3. Lucas Antonio Padron m: Phelipa Joepha de Torres 10 February 1709

4. Ma. Anta. Gertrudis Padron Baptized 2 Feb 1733 1st m: Roque Francisco Hernandes 5 Jan 1749
2nd m: Joseph Antonio Gonzales 15 Jan 1766

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GGZ-L2C

5.Maria Anastacia (Atanacia) Gonzales m: Antonio Alexandro Colunga (1759–)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGG9-DQ4

Antonio Alexandro Colunga is brother to Miguel Colunga who is married to Bacilia Gonsales Sister to Maria Anastacia Gonsales