Dr.mt

Aeral View of Capilla San Diego and Parroquia San Diego at Huejuquilla El Alto

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

This picture was taken by someone who used a cuadcopter such as a Phantom Cuadcopter with camera to take pictures of Huejuquilla.

Comentarios

Comentario

This is what the "Capilla De San Diego" looks like marked in the green arrow of the picture above:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2yyryvt.jpg

It goes as far back as 1649!!!!!!

As it says in the Escudo De Armas of Huejuquilla:

http://www.inafed.gob.mx/work/enciclopedia/EMM14jalisco/municipios/1404…

"En el cuadro superior izquierdo, la representación de la Capilla de San Diego de Alcalá, cuya fecha 1649, marca el inicio formal de la evangelización franciscana en la región."

http://oi59.tinypic.com/mbsp4z.jpg

Snacks and Music while looking through archives

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Do any of you eat snacks or listen to music while looking through archives?

Comentarios

Comentario

Many times I'm eating fruit while looking at records. I love blackberries and pomegranate. I like to listen the TV, specially a show that I already know

Greetings from Seattle

Panteon Antiguo at San Antonio De Padua near Huejuquilla El Alto

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am chatting with another person from Huejuquilla El Alto. She is a distant cousin of mine and she lives there. She is educated and also likes geneology.

Comentarios

Comentario

I did a search on googles map satellite view, looking at San Antonio De Padua for the panteon and found this:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/qmxoc2.jpg

On googles Map the coordinates are: 22.564976, -103.847410

https://www.google.com/maps/place/San+Antonio+de+Padua,+Zac.,+Mexico/@2…

I am going to have to make a list of places to check where there are panteons to look for my ancestors

Now she tells me that the old panteon is:

"Está frente a la placita o presidencia"

"el arbol esta afuera de la iglesia y a la izquierda de la iglesia esta el panteon"

So I guess that I would look for the Church and then look towards the left. So those graves must be as old as the Hacienda itself. Since in the old days, the graves were put next to the church before they began going to the cemetaries away from the church

Surname Guapalia?

Published by scompton –
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Genealogy Research

I just received a copy of my great grandfather Teodoro de Alba's death
certificate which lists his mother's name as "Synthia Guapalia". The
informant was his oldest son.

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Mié, 2015-03-18 22:44 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

One of my ancestors died in Texas and in his death certificate the "maiden name of mother" appears as Slogoudo or something like that, when in reality it was Elizondo. I guess they were not familiar with the surname and just wrote down whatever they thought they heard.

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Hi Steven,

I think Guapalia is a first name no a last name. It could be Cinthia "Gudelia or Guapalia (her middle name)". Very likely the document that you have doesn't include the last name

good luck

susana

Location of Old Panteones

Published by MADERA_32 –
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Genealogy Research

I am trying to find location of old panteons of Monte Escobedo, Mezquitic or Minillas.

During the 1600's - 1720's my ancesters were in Minillas, baptized in Mezquitic.

Comentarios

Comentario

Here is another:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/fvlobn.jpg

http://www.asezac.gob.mx/pages/infoase/informes2010/monte_escobedo_2010…

So old panteons are patrimonio cultural for the architecture and use of Cantera stone:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/5o8ewj.jpg

http://labestad.reduaz.mx/web/turismo/patrimonew/pdfdo4mun2.php?mun=031

On this website it talks about how the traditional ways the people were buried and by social classes. But then they had to change that routine since too many difuntos were buried within the Church and was causing a smell so they created a "camposanto"

http://www.testimonio13.com.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl…

Comentario

I was reading almost all the documents and Capellanias of Monte Escobedo and these are my conclusions:

From 1657 to about 1705 the people was buried in the Hacienda de San Andres del Astillero or Hacienda de Huejuquilla.

ab 1705 to ab 1880 was buried in the old church of Monte Escobedo but the priest carried all the bodies to the New cementery because there were a lot of people.

Comentario

Use google maps to enter these coordinates of panteons of Mezquitic and Monte Escobedo to get a satellite view.

This is coordinates of panteon of Mezquitic:

22.390870, -103.721928

The coordinates of panteon of Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico:

22.304558, -103.556573

And these are the coordinates of the old panteon of Monte Escobedo which is located on a highway just outside of "Laguna Grande" of Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico:

22.445740, -103.490197

The Castas System (Pintura de Castas)

Published by Xayme –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

A friend made me aware of this painting/system and thought I'd post it for future references in race terminology found in any documents of those times. This is what Wikipedia says:

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Xayme,

There is an excelente book (magazine) with beautiful examples of the paintings (pinturas de castas). Also includes a detail list of all the names that were used. For example "de calpamulato y coyota produce Barcina". The paintings are an excellent example of colonial art. Just in Mexico alone were 53 different categories.
The book is:

Artes de Mexico # 8. La pintura de castas / Castas Painting (Spanish Edition)

http://www.amazon.com/Mexico-pintura-Painting-Spanish-Edition/dp/968683…

Regards

Susana

Comentario

Alguno de ustedes compañeros que están en linea ahora mismo me refiero a los Compañeros
makas_nc
Gilberto
arturoramos que ! aparecen como presentes fueran tan Gratos de proporcionarme una copia o como pudo bajar el documento de Sagrada mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia : Expedientes de la serie de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII ya que se me mi copia a borrado gracias que tengan un excelente Domingo .

Comentario

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…

o

http://tinyurl.com/qfqreaw

joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of nacho_cuv@hotmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 12:37 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hola! a todos en especial . makas_nc
> ,Gilberto ,arturoramos
>
> Alguno de ustedes compañeros que están en linea ahora mismo me refiero
> a los Compañeros makas_nc Gilberto arturoramos que parecen como
> presentes fueran tan Gratos de proporcionarme una copia o como pudo
> bajar el documento de Sagrada mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de
> la Nueva Galicia :
> Expedientes de la serie de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII ya
> que se me mi copia a borrado gracias que tengan un excelente Domingo .
>

what is this record about?

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18737-10503-29?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Kathy,

I read some pages of the document. I found the following:

Felipe Neri Bollina (brother of Fernando Bonilla image 608/615) were both uncle's of Carlos Bonilla image 609/615.

By the way, neither uncle approved Carlos's choice of women. (and in reality how he was behaving) but at the end they got him out of jail. Very good document!

good luck

susana

Comentario

Katy,

I read the whole document. I think Carlos ended in jail because of the charges brought by Maria Gertrudis Parada. Carlos asked her in marriage (and after 3 years) he was now "visiting" her first cousin. Also I "think" he received also part of her dowry. She was "very" upset. At the end Don Felipe had to bail him out.

The document doesn't say who are Carlos's parents

good luck

Comentario

Hi Kathy,

I read some pages of the document. I found the following:

Felipe Neri Bollina (brother of Fernando Bonilla image 608/615) were both uncle's of Carlos Bonilla image 609/615.

By the way, neither uncle approved Carlos's choice of women. (and in reality how he was behaving) but at the end they got him out of jail. Very good document!

good luck

susana

Defunto of D. Joseph Menendez Ultra Marino, Capitan Protector, Asturiano en Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico 1735

Published by MADERA_32 –
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Genealogy Research

Here is an interesting one of a person who passed away in Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico. Joseph Menendez with these titles: "Ultra Marino, Capitan Protector, Asturiano.

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2015-03-15 09:05 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Ultramarino means that it comes from across the sea, it is equivalent to "from overseas" (over seas) in English and d'outre-mer in French. It just means he was born in Spain, not that he was a sailor.
Victoriano Navarro

Pedro de Chavez Banuelos y Agueda del Rio- JEREZ- NEW RECORD

Published by superhorrible –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello,

Comentarios

Comentario

yeah i agree i think i found another tree that lists quitera gamboa as the wife the older pedro chavez y banuelos.

note: i'm a descendent of two of the groom siblings: jose and maria clara

Difunto Record (1761) makes reference to "Hacienda De San Antonio De Las Minillas" This is odd?

Published by MADERA_32 –
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Genealogy Research

Where is "Hacienda San Antonio De Las Minillas?"

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2015-03-15 08:48 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

If you try to search on Google gor Minillas Jalisco, autocomplete gives you the option of Minillas Mezquitic Jalisco and the search brings tuo to a series of webpages with photos, a map with information and even a Facebook page.

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/minillas-2/

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/foto/minillas-2

So, there is a small town named Minillas in the Mezquitic Municipality.
Victoriano Navarro

Initials

Published by apozolco –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone know what these initials (E.A.h or M.A.h or L or V) stand for. they are always on the left hand side of the page under the person's name. I think the L stands for limosna.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Anselmo,

I think the initials are as follows:

P = parvulo
y = India
m= mestizo
E= Espanol
A= Adulto
L = limosna
h = Entierro menor (maybe)
maior = Entierro mayor

Then E.A.H. would mean Espanol, Adulto, Entierro menor

I didn't see an example of the V. Please send me an example of the death record with the V. I'm sure about all the initials with exception of the "h". But I reviewed more records and I noticed that the priest had one record with E.A. maior then I'm thinking that the last space was for the "type" of funeral services

I hope it helps

susana

Jose Antonio Robles, Tlaltenango & Gertrudis Rosalia Melope/Merlopes, Ahualulco

Published by Pamela –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I'm having an impossible time trying to find a marriage, baptismal or any other kind of record for this couple and their infant daughter Eugenia Ines.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello Pamela,

There's a baptism record for Maria Rosalia de la Luz Melope that may be the same person as your Gertrudis Rosalia Melope. Maria Rosalia de la Luz was born 22 Dec 1776 and baptized the next day in Ahualuco. Her parents are Antonio Melope and Josefa Navarro and godmother was Petra Orozco.

Austin Perez

Need help to decipher Possible location of Cemetary in 1779

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

This is from the difunto records of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2zg6hbl.jpg

Year is 1779, the comment:

Comentarios

Comentario

I agree, the character that looks like an F is a long S. According to the RAE dictionary:
osario.
(Del lat. ossarĭum).
1. m. En las iglesias o en los cementerios, lugar destinado para reunir los huesos que se sacan de las sepulturas a fin de volver a enterrar en ellas.
2. m. Lugar donde se hallan huesos.

In this church's cemetery, behind the ossaruim (ossuary); he whom I wanted to throw in the fields ...
Interesting record, first they wanted to dump the body in the fields since they thought the person was drunk and without confession when he died.
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

"a quien quise tirar a los campos"

Ha ha ha, I didn't realized that the priest wanted to throw or bury him out in the fields. Maybe the person was not buried in the cemetary but out in the fields.

Maybe by the way the priest wrote it, his thoughts were he didn't have respect for the person.

Comentario

Where can we see the lines you are trying to decipher?

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Need help to decipher (zacatecano020@hotmail.com)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help to decipher
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

"a quien quise tirar a los campos" Ha ha ha, I didn't realized that the
priest wanted to throw or bury him out in the fields. Maybe the person was
not buried in the cemetary but out in the fields. Maybe by the way the priest
wrote it, his thoughts were he didn't have respect for the person.

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

Comentario

I know it seems odd, but you have to give some "looseness" to these old records when reading them, don't take them literally 100 per cent, punctuation wasn't accurate when present, I know is difficult at first but you will get there, when at first sight you will be able to know what it means. The way Victoriano N. trascribe it has the correct sense.

Also period context is important, many records "feel" crude to us but it wasn't the case back then.

Needless to say that the priest didn't meant to literally trow the body on the fields (although not impossible), but to bury it there outside the "sacred land" which for Catholics would mean condemnation. At the end of the day everything was about money. The priest had to "wash his hands" in the record, same that were used as accounting documents when Bishops visited the parishes, therefore the priest could be held accountable for giving away "freebies".

Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Published by Martha Gomez –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola, Jorge,

estaba leyendo los mensajes y encontre el tuyo y como dice que eres de los Altos de Jalisco me parecio interesante leerlo y luego vi tu foto en el facebook y a los amigos que tienes y

Comentarios

Comentario

Tienes razon Jorge,

voy a revisar el documento porque yo vi ese nombre en el acta de matrimonio de su hijo Juan Trinidad de Esquivias, cuando se caso con  Juana

Ricarda Velazquez el 14 de mayo de 1760 y eso quiere decir que yo lei mal o que el sacerdote escribio Ascue an lugar de Aceves.

Muchas Gracias por el consejo.

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2011 11:36:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Martha, lo de Ascue no creo que sea ni nombre, ni apellido, más bien creo que ahi hay un error de dedo o un error de paleografía. Lo más probable, creo yo, es que quien paleofragio dicha palabra lo hizo mal y tradujo como Ascue y no como Aceves.
                                               

Comentario

Hola, Jorge,

Aqui van los datos de Jose Ciriaco Hernandez y  Juana Maria Esquivias.

Se casaron el 27 de feb 1786  , Jose  fue bautizado el 22 de agosto de 1756 en Atotonilco el Alto Jalisco, es hijo de Joseph Gabriel Hernandez Alvarez y de Francisca Xaviera Alvarez Cruz , Francisca fue Bautizada el  5 de feb 1733 en Atotonilco el Alto Jalisco

Joseph Gabriel y Francisca se casaron el 9 may 1753 en Tepatitlan que antes se escribia Thepatitlan. Joseph Gabriel Hernandez es hijo de

Christobal Hernandez y Maria Albarez de San Agustin Hayo el Chico Jalisco. y Christobal es Hijo de Pedro Hernandez y Violanta Ruiz de Velazco.

Juana Maria Esquivias nacio el 10 nov 1768 y la bautizaron el 1 de diciembre de 1768 en Tepatitlan, es hija de Juan Trinidad de Esquivias y Juana Ricarda Velazquez y se Casaron el  14 may 1760 en Tepatitlan , Juan Trinidad es hijo de Lorenzo de Esquivias y Maria de Ascue.  pero en algunas actas que tengo en ocasiones mencionan a Juana Maria como Esquivias y en otras como Esquivel , bueno Jorge espero que no te confundas con estos datos que te mando y tambien vi que mencionas a una Rita Gutierrez casada con un  Ponce Creo, y yo tengo los datos de ellos si quieres luego te los mando ok?

Tambien estoy buscando a los papas de  Maria Josefa Arias Gonzalez solo se que se llaman Jose Manuel Arias y Bibiana Gonzalez pero no tengo mas informacion , ojala y tu la tengas ella se caso con Jose Rafael Atanacio Aceves Arias el 29 de may 1816 en Tepatitlan.

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 4:28:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Claro que sí Martha, sí me puedes pasar los datos de José Ciriaco Hernández y Juana María Esquivias, junto con sus ancestros te lo agradecere mucho. Ademas no se sí pueda conseguirte más datos de tus ancestros de Nochistlan, deja reviso un libro que tengo de genealogía de Nochistlan y te paso los datos sí los tiene el mencionado libro. Saludos.
                                               

Comentario

Hola Martha y otros:
Esta línea de los Hernández Gamino son unos de mis líneas vía mi
línea agnaticia. Dichos Joseph Gabriel Hernández Gamino y Francisca
Xaviera Álvarez de la Cruz son mis antepasados vía su hija Rita Juliana
Hernández Gamino quien casó a mi antepasado Juan Manuel Rubio
de Zepeda.
Por eso compartimos un tronco común Martha ya que desciendes de
José Siriaco Hernández Gamino. Mis bisabuelos eran de Tepatitlán.
Acerca de tus Arias González es posible que tuvieron un vínculo
con Tonalá, Jalisco donde bautizaron por lo menos dos hijos.
JOseph Gabriel como dijo era hijo de Cristóbal Hernández Gamino
y María Álvarez de la Cruz; ella hija de Cristóbal Álvarez de la Cruz
y Mariana Álvarez de la Cruz. Estas hijas de Pedro díaz Castellanos
y María Álvarez de la Cruz dichas hijas utilizaron su apellido materno.
Joseph Gabriel Hernandez Gamino y Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz
eran primos hermanos por su línea coagnaticia nietos de Pedro Díaz Castellanos
y María Álvarez de la Cruz. Por otra linea deberían ser primos segundos
es mi sospecho por la línea Álvarez de la Cruz tengo suficiente documentos
que puedo decir que es MUY probable.
Eran dispensados y existe en la Sagrada Mitra dichas dispensas por lo menos no
he podido encontrar la segunda por los Álvarez de la cruz por el tiempo que tengo
corto. Al momento estoy terminando mi libro y revisando los registros de Zamora,
Michoacán en búsqueda de mi línea agnaticia.

Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

Hola Martha dijiste que tenias informacion sobre los padres y abuelos de Juana MAria
de Esquivias? Quien era sus abuelos maternos. Gracias.

Daniel Méndez Camino

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 14:24:42 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.
>
>
>
>
> Hola Martha y otros:
> Esta línea de los Hernández Gamino son unos de mis líneas vía mi
> línea agnaticia. Dichos Joseph Gabriel Hernández Gamino y Francisca
> Xaviera Álvarez de la Cruz son mis antepasados vía su hija Rita Juliana
> Hernández Gamino quien casó a mi antepasado Juan Manuel Rubio
> de Zepeda.
> Por eso compartimos un tronco común Martha ya que desciendes de
> José Siriaco Hernández Gamino. Mis bisabuelos eran de Tepatitlán.
> Acerca de tus Arias González es posible que tuvieron un vínculo
> con Tonalá, Jalisco donde bautizaron por lo menos dos hijos.
> JOseph Gabriel como dijo era hijo de Cristóbal Hernández Gamino
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz; ella hija de Cristóbal Álvarez de la Cruz
> y Mariana Álvarez de la Cruz. Estas hijas de Pedro díaz Castellanos
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz dichas hijas utilizaron su apellido materno.
> Joseph Gabriel Hernandez Gamino y Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz
> eran primos hermanos por su línea coagnaticia nietos de Pedro Díaz Castellanos
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz. Por otra linea deberían ser primos segundos
> es mi sospecho por la línea Álvarez de la Cruz tengo suficiente documentos
> que puedo decir que es MUY probable.
> Eran dispensados y existe en la Sagrada Mitra dichas dispensas por lo menos no
> he podido encontrar la segunda por los Álvarez de la cruz por el tiempo que tengo
> corto. Al momento estoy terminando mi libro y revisando los registros de Zamora,
> Michoacán en búsqueda de mi línea agnaticia.
>
> Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

Hola, Daniel,

La informacion sobre los padres y abuelos de Juana Maria de Esquivias la mande en un e mail  que le envie a Jorge

se lo mande ayer si no lo ves avisame y te lo mando otra vez. por lo que dices de los hernandez Gamino si, es verdad eran Primos yo lo vi en su acta de matrimonio dice que fueron dispensados por parentesco.

pero dime que quiere decir ( y disculpa mi ignorancdia) linea agnaticia? Y  linea coagnaticia?

Saludos Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez y Camino"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2011 3:44:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Hola Martha dijiste que tenias informacion sobre los padres y abuelos de Juana

de Esquivias? Quien era sus abuelos maternos. Gracias.

Daniel Méndez Camino

 

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 14:24:42 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.
>
>
>
>
> Hola Martha y otros:
> Esta línea de los Hernández Gamino son unos de mis líneas vía mi
> línea agnaticia. Dichos Joseph Gabriel Hernández Gamino y Francisca
> Xaviera Álvarez de la Cruz son mis antepasados vía su hija Rita Juliana
> Hernández Gamino quien casó a mi antepasado Juan Manuel Rubio
> de Zepeda.
> Por eso compartimos un tronco común Martha ya que desciendes de
> José Siriaco Hernández Gamino. Mis bisabuelos eran de Tepatitlán.
> Acerca de tus Arias González es posible que tuvieron un vínculo
> con Tonalá, Jalisco donde bautizaron por lo menos dos hijos.
> JOseph Gabriel como dijo era hijo de Cristóbal Hernández Gamino
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz; ella hija de Cristóbal Álvarez de la Cruz
> y Mariana Álvarez de la Cruz. Estas hijas de Pedro díaz Castellanos
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz dichas hijas utilizaron su apellido materno.
> Joseph Gabriel Hernandez Gamino y Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz
> eran primos hermanos por su línea coagnaticia nietos de Pedro Díaz Castellanos
> y María Álvarez de la Cruz. Por otra linea deberían ser primos segundos
> es mi sospecho por la línea Álvarez de la Cruz tengo suficiente documentos
> que puedo decir que es MUY probable.
> Eran dispensados y existe en la Sagrada Mitra dichas dispensas por lo menos no
> he podido encontrar la segunda por los Álvarez de la cruz por el tiempo que tengo
> corto. Al momento estoy terminando mi libro y revisando los registros de Zamora,
> Michoacán en búsqueda de mi línea agnaticia.
>
> Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

Gracias Martha. Sobre tu pregunta linea agnaticia es la linea recta por varonia (o sea padre a hijo)
cognaticia es linea recto de varonia por el lado materno. No es solamente linea paterno o materno
sino strictamente linea por varonia. Ojala ayude en esta explicacion. Son terminos que realmente
en la genealogia son importantisimo para aprender y utilizar. Son mas escuchados sobre temas
nobiliarias como hijosdalgo.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Gracias Martha por los datos que me envías. En cuanto a los padres de María Josefa Arias González, bautizada el 25 de marzo de 1802 en Tepatitlán, solo se que son José Manuel Arias y María Viviana González, pero no tengo nada mas sobre ellos.

De los Esquivias que mencionas, Lorenzo de Esquivias y María de Aceves son los padres de tu ancestro Juan de la Trinidad Esquivias. Lorenzo y María casaron en Tepatitlán el 11 de febrero de 1733. Lorenzo es hijo del Capitán Juan de Esquivias y Marcela Íñiguez. María de Aceves, es hija de Juan de Aceves y Polonia de Torres.

Los Esquivias eran de Nochistlán.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Daniel, espero la información que te envíe te ayude:

Lorenzo de Esquivias es hijo del Capitán Juan de Esquivias (19-05-1671 Nochistlán / 16-10-1765 Tepatitlán) y de Marcela Íñiguez (09-04-1674 Cuquío / 06-03-1728 Nochistlán). Juan de Esquivias y Marcela Íñiguez casaron en Nochistlán el 01 de enero de 1693.

Juan de Esquivias es hijo de Lorenzo de Esquivias y Juana Yáñez del Monte. Juana Yáñez del Monte es hija de Lorenzo Yáñez del Monte y María Rodríguez de la Mora.

Marcela Íñiguez es hija de Antonio Íñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas, casados es Cuquío el 13 de febrero de 1668. El es hijo de Nicolás Íñiguez y María de Ulloa.

María de Aceves es hija de Juan de Aceves (13-05-1677 Ayo el Chico / 03-06-1752 Tepatitlán) y de Polonia de Torres (01-11-1686 Jalostotitlán / 01-03-1748 Tepatitlán).

Juan de Aceves y Polonia se casaron en Tepatitlán el 10 de febrero de 1709. El es hijo de José de Aceves y Magdalena Ruiz de Velazco y ella lo es de Lázaro Casillas y Cabrera y de Jacinta Ramírez de Mendoza.

José de Aceves es hijo de Juan de Aceves y Andrea Becerra y Galindo. Magdalena Ruiz de Velazco es hija de Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño y María Ruiz de Velazco

Lázaro Casillas y Cabrera es hijo de Francisco Casillas y Cabrera y de María González de Hermosillo. Y Jacinta Ramírez de Mendoza es hija de Diego Ramírez de Mendoza y Apolonia de Torres.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Hola, Jorge,

Estaba viendo un e mail que le mandaste a Daniel  acerca de los Esquivias y ya vez que yo los tengo en mi arbol genealogico , y estaba pensando si

tu tendrias tambien a los papas de Maria Ascue la esposa de Lorenzo de Esquivias.

Y tambien te queria preguntar si cuando dices  Nochistlan te refieres a Zacatecas?

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2011 8:57:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Daniel, espero la información que te envíe te ayude:
 
Lorenzo de Esquivias es hijo del Capitán Juan de Esquivias (19-05-1671 Nochistlán / 16-10-1765 Tepatitlán) y de Marcela Íñiguez (09-04-1674 Cuquío / 06-03-1728 Nochistlán). Juan de Esquivias y Marcela Íñiguez casaron en Nochistlán el 01 de enero de 1693.
 
Juan de Esquivias es hijo de Lorenzo de Esquivias y Juana Yáñez del Monte. Juana Yáñez del Monte es hija de Lorenzo Yáñez del Monte y María Rodríguez de la Mora.
 
Marcela Íñiguez es hija de Antonio Íñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas, casados es Cuquío el 13 de febrero de 1668. El es hijo de Nicolás Íñiguez y María de Ulloa.
 
María de Aceves es hija de Juan de Aceves (13-05-1677 Ayo el Chico / 03-06-1752 Tepatitlán) y de Polonia de Torres (01-11-1686 Jalostotitlán / 01-03-1748 Tepatitlán).
 
Juan de Aceves y Polonia se casaron en Tepatitlán el 10 de febrero de 1709. El es hijo de José de Aceves y Magdalena Ruiz de Velazco y ella lo es de Lázaro Casillas y Cabrera y de Jacinta Ramírez de Mendoza.
 
José de Aceves es hijo de Juan de Aceves y Andrea Becerra y Galindo. Magdalena Ruiz de Velazco es hija de Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño y María Ruiz de Velazco
 
Lázaro Casillas y Cabrera es hijo de Francisco Casillas y Cabrera y de María González de Hermosillo. Y Jacinta Ramírez de Mendoza es hija de Diego Ramírez de Mendoza y Apolonia de Torres.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

                                               

Comentario

Sí Martha, en el correo que envie a Daniel menciono a Nochistlan Zacatecas.

Y los padres de María de Ascue que mencionas es María de Aceves tambien mencionada en el correo anterior, hija de Juan de Aceves y Polonia de Torres.

Comentario

Muchas Gracias Jorge,

Ahora solo me queda una duda  '' Ascue '' es nombre ? o seria algun apellido que ella adopto? porque segun el libro de Retonos de la Nueva Espana

dice que no era obligatorio que los padres les pusieran sus apellidos antes de los 1800s por esa razon no se si  era nombre  o apellido '' Ascue"

Y mira que yo ya tenia a esta Maria en mi arbol genealogico y casada con Lorenzo de Esquivias y como hija de Juan de Aceves  y Polonia de Torres

pero nunca me imagine que eran la misma persona.

Bueno Jorge muchas Gracias por todo.

Martha Gomez

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 10:19:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Sí Martha, en el correo que envie a Daniel menciono a Nochistlan Zacatecas.

Y los padres de María de Ascue que mencionas es María de Aceves tambien mencionada en el correo anterior, hija de Juan de Aceves y Polonia de Torres.
                                               

Comentario

Martha, lo de Ascue no creo que sea ni nombre, ni apellido, más bien creo que ahi hay un error de dedo o un error de paleografía. Lo más probable, creo yo, es que quien paleofragio dicha palabra lo hizo mal y tradujo como Ascue y no como Aceves.

Comentario

Estimados primos,

Me llamo muchísimo la atención sus mensajes anteriores porque mencionan varias de mis ramas ancestrales. Contenidos en el siguiente reporte están antepasados míos que Uds. mencionan. Por ejemplo, desciendo de Cristóbal Gutiérrez de Mendoza y María González de Laris, Nicolás Yáñez y Mariana Jiménez, Nicolás Durán y Francisca Ruiz de Esparza, Blas Hernández Gamiño y Luisa Domínguez, Pedro Velasco Navarrete y Mariana de Aceves, Pedro Díaz Castellanos y María Álvarez de la Cruz, Cristóbal Álvarez de la Cruz y Mariana Díaz Castellanos y Lázaro Casillas y Cabrera y Jacinta Ramírez de Mendoza. Además tengo los apellidos González de Hermosillo, Martín del Campo, Macías Valadéz, López Muñoz de Nava, Aceves, y Velásquez.

Dos preguntas: ¿Alguno de Uds. conoce la identidad de los padres de Francisco Velásquez y Antonia de Loza, casados en Tepatitlán el 04 de marzo de 1726? El acta de matrimonio no menciona a los padres de los contrayentes. Y, ¿tuvieron hijos José Luciano Gutiérrez Yáñez y Paula Josefa Hernández Esquivel, los que casaron en Tepatitlán el 10 de junio de 1811?

En cuanto al siguiente reporte genealógico les ofrezco una infinidad de disculpas de que esté en inglés. Cómo me gustaría que mi programa Family Tree Maker me diera la opción de publicar reportes como estos en español. Pero ni modo…que se puede hacer.
_____________________________________________

Generation No. 1

1. Children of 2. Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez and 3. Paula Josepha Hernández.

Generation No. 2

2. Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez, born 05 June 1789 in Tonalá, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 4. Joseph Mauricio Gutiérrez and 5. María-Margarita Yáñez. He married 3. Paula Josepha Hernández 10 June 1811 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
3. Paula Josepha Hernández, born 06 July 1791 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 6. Joseph-Ciraco Hernández and 7. Juana María Esquivel.

More About Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez and Paula Hernández:
Marriage: 10 June 1811, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

Child of Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez and Paula Hernández is:
1 i. x Gutiérrez

Generation No. 3

4. Joseph Mauricio Gutiérrez, born 19 January 1755 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 8. Joseph-Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris and 9. María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes. He married 5. María-Margarita Yáñez 17 April 1776 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.
5. María-Margarita Yáñez, born ca. 1757 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 10. Joseph Yáñez and 11. Rosa María González.

More About Joseph Gutiérrez and María-Margarita Yáñez:
Marriage: 17 April 1776, Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México

Child of Joseph Gutiérrez and María-Margarita Yáñez is:
2 i. Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez, born 05 June 1789 in Tonalá, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married Paula Josepha Hernández 10 June 1811 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.

6. Joseph-Ciraco Hernández, born 22 August 1756 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 12. Joseph-Gabriel Hernández and 13. Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz. He married 7. Juana María Esquivel 27 February 1786 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
7. Juana María Esquivel, born 10 November 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 14. Juan de la Trinidad de Esquivel and 15. Juana-Ricarda Velásquez.

More About Juana María Esquivel:
Baptism: 01 December 1768, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

More About Joseph-Ciraco Hernández and Juana Esquivel:
Marriage: 27 February 1786, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

Children of Joseph-Ciraco Hernández and Juana Esquivel are:
i. María-Rita Timotea Hernández, born 06 February 1790 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
3 ii. Paula Josepha Hernández, born 06 July 1791 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married Joseph-Luciano Gutiérrez 10 June 1811 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.

Generation No. 4

8. Joseph-Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris (Source: Antepasado de Vicente Fernández.), born ca. 1729 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 16. Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris and 17. Isabel González de Hermosillo. He married 9. María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes 18 February 1754 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.
9. María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes (Source: Antepasado de Vicente Fernández.), born 10 May 1733 in El Duarte, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 18. Blas Pérez de Paredes and 19. Inés Macías Valadéz.

Marriage Notes for Joseph-Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris and María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes:
145. 18 Febrero 1754 Duarte
D Joseph Cayetano Gutiérrez Hermosillo
HL D Joaquin Gutiérrez de Laris y D Isabel de Hermosillo d
Con D Luisa Perez de Paredes
HL D Blas Perez de Paredes y D Ines Macias Valades
PP D Ramon Casillas y D Regina Gutiérrez
TT D Joaquin González Hermosillo

More About Joseph-Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris and María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes:
Marriage: 18 February 1754, Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México

Children of Joseph-Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris and María-Luisa Pérez de Paredes are:
4 i. Joseph Mauricio Gutiérrez, born 19 January 1755 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married María-Margarita Yáñez 17 April 1776 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.
ii. María-Rafaela de San Felipe Gutiérrez, born 09 May 1756 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
iii. Blas Sebastián Gutiérrez, born 28 January 1758 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Bef. 28 April 1824; married Rosalía de los Dolores Padilla Dávila ca. 1785 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; born 16 September 1769 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Bef. 28 April 1824.

More About Blas Gutiérrez and Rosalía Padilla Dávila:
Marriage: ca. 1785, Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México

iv. Rosalía Francisca de Guadalupe Gutiérrez, born 28 September 1760 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
v. Ramón Joaquín Gutiérrez, born 01 March 1764 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
vi. María-Trinidad Gutiérrez, born 22 March 1766 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
vii. Joseph-Antonio Julián Gutiérrez, born 27 March 1768 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
viii. Anna María Josepha Gutiérrez, born 28 March 1770 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
ix. Ignacio Mariano Gutiérrez, born 29 July 1772 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married (1) Luciana de la Torre ca. 1796 in Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; born ca. 1777 in Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; died 1809 in Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; married (2) María-Evarista Nuño 14 December 1814 in La Purísima Concepción, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; born 10 November 1793 in Los Corralillos, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.

More About Ignacio Mariano Gutiérrez:
Residence: El Rancho de Calderón, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México

More About Ignacio Gutiérrez and María-Evarista Nuño:
Marriage: 14 December 1814, La Purísima Concepción, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México

x. Joseph-María Gutiérrez (Source: Antepasado de Vicente Fernández.), born 06 September 1775 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married (1) María-Guadalupe Regalado 27 December 1809 in La Purísima Concepción, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; born 31 August 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Bef. May 1813 in Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; married (2) María-Ursina Alvarez 28 May 1813 in La Purísima Concepción, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; born 22 August 1789 in Calderón, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.

More About Joseph-María Gutiérrez:
Residence: El Rancho de Calderón, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México

More About Joseph-María Gutiérrez and María-Ursina Alvarez:
Marriage: 28 May 1813, La Purísima Concepción, Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, México

10. Joseph Yáñez, born ca. 1718 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 20. Nicolás Yáñez and 21. Mariana Jiménez. He married 11. Rosa María González 20 May 1742 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México.
11. Rosa María González, born 26 April 1722 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 22. Bernabé González and 23. Petrona de Usquiano.

More About Joseph Yáñez and Rosa González:
Marriage: 20 May 1742, Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México

Child of Joseph Yáñez and Rosa González is:
5 i. María-Margarita Yáñez, born ca. 1757 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown; married Joseph Mauricio Gutiérrez 17 April 1776 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

12. Joseph-Gabriel Hernández, born 27 April 1727 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 24. Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño and 25. María Díaz Castellanos. He married 13. Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz 09 May 1753 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
13. Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz, born 05 February 1733 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México (Source: 0222109 1699-1749, Baptisms Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México); died Unknown. She was the daughter of 26. Cristóbal Alvarez de la Cruz and 27. María-Anna Díaz Castellanos.

Notes for Joseph-Gabriel Hernández:
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
México
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOSEPH GABRIEL ERNANDES ALBARES
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 02 APR 1727 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, México
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: CHRISTOBAL ERNANDES Family
Mother: MARIA ALBARES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
No source information is available.
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Notes for Francisca Xaviera Alvarez de la Cruz:
Francisca Alvarez de la Cruz was baptized on Thursday, 05 Feb 1733, in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México. Her baptism record is in Microfilm Baptisms 1699-1749, # 0222109.

More About Joseph-Gabriel Hernández and Francisca Alvarez de la Cruz:
Marriage: 09 May 1753, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

Children of Joseph-Gabriel Hernández and Francisca Alvarez de la Cruz are:
i. Rita-Juliana Hernández, born ca. 1754 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Aft. 02 May 1805 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; married Juan-Manuel Rubio 08 June 1767 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; born 11 March 1742 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Bef. 10 May 1786 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.

More About Rita-Juliana Hernández:
Residence: La Soledad, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

More About Juan-Manuel Rubio:
Residence: Mariche, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

More About Juan-Manuel Rubio and Rita-Juliana Hernández:
Marriage: 08 June 1767, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

6 ii. Joseph-Ciraco Hernández, born 22 August 1756 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married Juana María Esquivel 27 February 1786 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
iii. María-Guadalupe Hernández, born 01 October 1758 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
iv. Antonia Rosalía Hernández, born 21 July 1766 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
v. Antonio-Leonardo Rafael Hernández, born 01 December 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Aft. 11 April 1806 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; married María-Guadalupe de Aceves 04 February 1788 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; born ca. 1769 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Aft. 11 April 1806 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.

More About Antonio-Leonardo Rafael Hernández:
Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México

More About Antonio-Leonardo Hernández and María-Guadalupe Aceves:
Marriage: 04 February 1788, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

vi. Petra de los Dolores Hernández, born 31 January 1771 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.

14. Juan de la Trinidad de Esquivel, born 19 June 1734 in La Villa de San Joseph de Montezuma, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 28. Lorenzo de Esquivel Irazábal and 29. María de Aceves. He married 15. Juana-Ricarda Velásquez 14 May 1760 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
15. Juana-Ricarda Velásquez, born ca. 1741 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. She was the daughter of 30. Francisco Velásquez and 31. Antonia de Loza.

More About Juan de la Trinidad de Esquivel:
Baptism: 04 July 1734, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

More About Juan Esquivel and Juana-Ricarda Velásquez:
Marriage: 14 May 1760, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México

Children of Juan Esquivel and Juana-Ricarda Velásquez are:
i. María-Ana Esquivel, born 03 August 1766 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
7 ii. Juana María Esquivel, born 10 November 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown; married Joseph-Ciraco Hernández 27 February 1786 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
iii. María-Hilaria Esquivel, born 13 November 1771 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.
iv. María-Polonia Esquivel, born 06 August 1781 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown.

Generation No. 5

16. Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris (Source: Antepasado de Vicente Fernández.), born 1695 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Unknown. He was the son of 32. Cristóbal Gutiérrez de Mendoza and 33. María González de Laris. He married 17. Isabel González de Hermosillo 01 February 1723 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.
17. Isabel González de Hermosillo (Source: Antepasado de Vicente Fernández.), born 25 May 1706 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died Bef. 18 February 1754 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México. She was the daughter of 34. Miguel González de Hermosillo and 35. Regina Villaseñor y Cuevas.

Notes for Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris:
Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris was born and baptized in 1695 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México. His birth and baptism record is in LDS Proxy Forms, Batch # 8682009-05, Film # 1396257.

More About Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris and Isabel González de Hermosillo:
Marriage: 01 February 1723, Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México

Children of Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris and Isabel González de Hermosillo are:
i. Antonia Regina Gutiérrez de Laris, born 20 July 1727 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México; died 15 February 1779 in

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Comentario

Hola Martha, creo que si te puedo ayudar en algo. Tengo algo de información de tus ancestros.

Paula Josefa Hernández Esquivias fue bautizada en Tepatitlán el 06 de julio de 1791, hija de José Ciriaco Hernández y Juana María Esquivias, los cuales casaron en Tepatitlán el 27 de febrero de 1786. De ellos solo tengo esto.

José Luciano Gutiérrez Yáñez fue bautizado en Tonalá el 05 de junio de 1789, hijo legítimo de José Mauricio Gutiérrez de Laris y María Margarita Yáñez González.

José Mauricio Gutiérrez de Laris fue bautizado en San Juan de los Lagos el 19 de enero de 1755, hijo legítimo de José Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris y María Luisa Pérez de Paredes. Casó el 17 de abril de 1776 en Jalostotitlán con María Margarita Yáñez González, hija legítima de José Yáñez y Rosa María González.

José Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris, es hijo legítimo de Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris e Isabel de Hermosillo, y casó el 18 de febrero de 1754 en Jalostotitlán con María Luisa Pérez de Paredes, hija legítima de Blás Pérez de Paredes e Inés Macías Valadez.

Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris es hijo de Cristóbal Gutiérrez de Mendoza y María de Laris. Isabel de Hermosillo es hija de Miguel González de Hermosillo y Regina de la Cueva y Villaseñor.

Blás Pérez de Paredes es hijo de Blás Pérez de Paredes y Rosa Martín del Campo. Inés Macías Valadez es hija de Sebastián Macías Valadez y Petronila Muñoz de Nava.

José Yáñez y Rosa María González casaron en Nochistlán el 20 de mayo de 1742. El es hijo de Nicolás Yáñez del Monte y Mariana Jiménez. Ella es hija de Bernabé González y Petrona de Usquiano.

Nicolás Yáñez del Monte y Mariana Jiménez casaron en Nochistlán el 26 de mayo de 1694. Bernabé González y Petrona de Usquiano casaron en Nochistlán el 08 de enero de 1720.

Espero te sirva de algo esta información, y espero haberme podido explicar de la mejor manera para que entiendas dicha información. Seguimos en contacto para lo que necesites.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Hola, Jorge,

quiero agradecerte muchisimo por lo que me enviaste, son como cuatro o mas generaciones, no las he podido pasar a mis archivos porque tengo que salir a trabajar pero ahorita llegue a mi casa y mire a ver si me habias contestado y me quede gratamente sorprendida, me hiciste un gran regalo y te lo agradezco de corazon. Fijate que yo tengo a los papas de Jose Ciriaco , a sus abuelos y tambien a los bisabuelos si te interesa dime y te los mando. y tambien tengo a los padres de Juana y a los abuelos. bueno otra vez muchisimas gracias.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:16:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Hola Martha, creo que si te puedo ayudar en algo. Tengo algo de información de tus ancestros.
 
Paula Josefa Hernández Esquivias fue bautizada en Tepatitlán el 06 de julio de 1791, hija de José Ciriaco Hernández y Juana María Esquivias, los cuales casaron en Tepatitlán el 27 de febrero de 1786. De ellos solo tengo esto.
 
José Luciano Gutiérrez Yáñez fue bautizado en Tonalá el 05 de junio de 1789, hijo legítimo de José Mauricio Gutiérrez de Laris y María Margarita Yáñez González.
 
José Mauricio Gutiérrez de Laris fue bautizado en San Juan de los Lagos el 19 de enero de 1755, hijo legítimo de José Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris y María Luisa Pérez de Paredes. Casó el 17 de abril de 1776 en Jalostotitlán con María Margarita Yáñez González, hija legítima de José Yáñez y Rosa María González.
 
José Cayetano Gutiérrez de Laris, es hijo legítimo de Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris e Isabel de Hermosillo, y casó el 18 de febrero de 1754 en Jalostotitlán con María Luisa Pérez de Paredes, hija legítima de Blás Pérez de Paredes e Inés Macías Valadez.
 
Joaquín Gutiérrez de Laris es hijo de Cristóbal Gutiérrez de Mendoza y María de Laris. Isabel de Hermosillo es hija de Miguel González de Hermosillo y Regina de la Cueva y Villaseñor.
 
Blás Pérez de Paredes es hijo de Blás Pérez de Paredes y Rosa Martín del Campo. Inés Macías Valadez es hija de Sebastián Macías Valadez y Petronila Muñoz de Nava.
 
José Yáñez y Rosa María González casaron en Nochistlán el 20 de mayo de 1742. El es hijo de Nicolás Yáñez del Monte y Mariana Jiménez. Ella es hija de Bernabé González y Petrona de Usquiano.
 
Nicolás Yáñez del Monte y Mariana Jiménez casaron en Nochistlán el 26 de mayo de 1694. Bernabé González y Petrona de Usquiano casaron en Nochistlán el 08 de enero de 1720.
 
Espero te sirva de algo esta información, y espero haberme podido explicar de la mejor manera para que entiendas dicha información. Seguimos en contacto para lo que necesites.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

                                               

Comentario

Claro que sí Martha, sí me puedes pasar los datos de José Ciriaco Hernández y Juana María Esquivias, junto con sus ancestros te lo agradecere mucho. Ademas no se sí pueda conseguirte más datos de tus ancestros de Nochistlan, deja reviso un libro que tengo de genealogía de Nochistlan y te paso los datos sí los tiene el mencionado libro. Saludos.

Husband/Wife pass away year 1777 (Hacienda San Antonio De Padua) - Por Ser Pobre???

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

They are husband and wife who passed away in year 1777 and at Hacienda San Antonio De Padua, near Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico they are espanoles and says they are poor?

Comentarios

Comentario

This would be a bit odd if it was in the 1500's or even in the 1600's, I've seen plenty of records showing Spanish people as poor, situations are many, and by the 1700's societies in Mexico where no necessarily driven by race as we may think, for example Peninsulares had (usually) more rights than Spanish Criollos, been "white" wasn't enough any more, one of the reasons for the Independence.

Now the "poor" condition could have a myriad of backgrounds, for example not all kids in wealthy families "make it", nor all had inheritances, we find often siblings in a total opposite situations. Some times the parents would inherit or give everything they had to their kids passing away in "poverty", some loose their wealth, and some where never rich at all, many came to the continent between the mid 1600's and 1800's as a regular workers, with no much in their homeland and lived as a laborers for all their life, and the list can keep going.

Now the interesting part of that document is the fact that the husband is address as "Don", but even there we know that since the days before Cervantes there where plenty of "Hidalgos pobres", this is, not even a social title would secure wealth.

Note that in a few instances, the inheritances and conditions where "hidden" as to not provide the church with any fee/donation, something similar goes with the famous lack of signatures, many people did know how to sign but refuse to "accept" it, giving away signatures was a tricky situation.

Comentario

It says: no testó por pobre, did not make a will for being poor.
Not everybody can be rich, not even all the people of Spanish descent in New Spain. Many came as servants of the wealthy folks, or were soldiers, children born here and abandomned by their parents, etc. Many became rich one way or another, but they did not start like that.
Victoriano Navarro.

Fresh Eyes and Input on the Ancestry of Melchora de Reyes (Moscoso Sandoval Delgadillo)

Published by 245luigi –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I need help figuring out a mystery that has been bothering me for quite some time. Im working on the Delgadillo's of mid - late 1600's Nochistlan. All events below occur in Nochistlan.

Comentarios

Comentario

Look at the page number 144 of the film 226724, second from the top at the right page. (is indeed Nicolas de Bargas)

Based on just and only the information you just described above, I would think that there were two Melchora de los Reyes, the records of their kids that you had mention may provide more information, like the godparents (establishing a family/acquaintance circle) that may link the two as family only. The fact that their kids overlap in time is strong enough evidence to separate them, would be different if on one side the kids were "natural" acknowledging they were out of marriage (not likely at all in this case). Therefore, what about the brother, mother and father's names? To my humble opinion, they (the Melchoras) could be cousins (out of two sisters named both Maria Delgadillo), otherwise why the second Melchora's marriage did not mention her father, I would think very unlikely that they would "hide" or "forget" to address a "Moscoso y Sandoval" person, this can be further cleared with her kids records, I've would look for the name Melchora M y S besides Melchora Delgadillo for the one married with Nicolas de Vargas, You have a really interesting puzzle there, but again, unless explicitly said on a record that the second one is M y S, I can't think on those two ladies been the same. I would also consider them sisters (instead of cousins) too.

Comentario

Thank you so much for locating the record! After thinking about this for a while and consulting with some others I am working with, I think it makes most sense that the Melchora's are different but share a mother thus maternal lineage. This seems to be in agreement with all of the records found. Now if a dispensa is found where paternal lineage is the same....well there comes back my headache!

Comentario

Just try to rule out the impossibility, out of curiosity, Does the second Melchora"s (married with Nicolas de Vargas) records and or her kids/grandkids ever mention the Moscoso y Sandoval name? If not I would put my bet on they (the Melchoras) been cousins, but records would tell you better, hope you find the clues.

Comentario

The Moscoso y Sandoval comes from Diego which is Melchora's (m Pedro Placencia) fathers surname. I have not found Melchora (m Nicolas Vargas) or her children using M y S yet. The dispensas so far provide info appearing that they are half sisters

Two People passed away by "Rayo" 1775

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I ran across this one that is interesting where two people were hit by "rallo" lightening in 1775. Gives details of how they looked like when they were found.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/ab18x0.jpg

Comentarios

New Member Harry Crittenden Mercado

Published by mercadoh –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello all,

I am in northern California and hope to become active in the local Nuestros group.

Comentarios

Comentario

I am so happy to have found your conversation. It gives me new hope of finding more information on my family. I am also looking for family members in Mezquital del Oro and the surrounding areas. The oldest record I have for the Cida family is 1744, but then I had no idea where to go from there since there aren't very many records older than that. Thank you, and welcome!

Comentario

I am also a Mercado although I dont see a connection to Harrys lines. It appears my surname was Vazquez de Mercado originating from Cuquio/Atenguillo and perhaps Nochistlan. Im currently stuck in the Mid 1650's with Domingo Mercado m Teresa de Placencia. I believe Domingo's fathers name was Juan or Bacilio. I am in a similar spot as you regarding knowing Spanish.

Looking forward to working together

Alex Mercado

Comentario

Welcome to the group Harry. There is a marriage between a Don Manuel Mercado and Doña Gertrudis Gutierres on 10 May 1750:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11201-37441-43?cc=1804458&wc…

That marriage list Don Manuel Mercado as the son of Don Miguel Mercado and Doña Gertrudis Garcia. Don Manuel is listed as being originally from Nochistlan, so Don Miguel Mercado and Doña Gertrudis Garcia would've been married sometime before 1735 in Nochistlan most likely, which is where I would look for the marriage.

Christopher de Cuellar

From: "mercado@riverfast.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 9:56 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Harry Crittenden Mercado

Hello all,

I am in northern California and hope to become active in the local Nuestros group.

I descend from a Miguel Mercado and his wife Maria Gertrudis Garcia.  Their son, Jose Santiago Mercado was born in Mezquital Del Oro, Zac.  Sept 8, 1748.  I have a fairly well developed genealogy from that point forward.  But I do not know Miguel's roots.

Miguel and Maria had at least 5 children in Mezquital  between 1740 and 1751.  During the same time period, and in the same pueblo, Sebastian Mercado and Lucianna Nunes had four children - one being born in Nochistlan.  Another Mercado couple, Nicolas and Maria Ynigues had at least one child in Mezquital.  Finally, too, a Manuel Mercado and Gertrudis Guitierres had at least one child.

So Mezquital Del Oro was a supermercado (pun) source.  I would be interested in connecting with any persons from these lines to get a lead on Miguel Mercado's birthplace.

Also I note that Nochistlan generated many Mercados in the 1708 - 1729 period.  So perhaps some of these were in my line.  The families there included Sebastian Mercado + Maria Lomelin and (2) Maria de Torres, Cristobal Mercado + M. Angela de la Torres, Calletano Mercado + Francisco Nunes.

My immediate plan is to try to get and translate some of the baptismal records for Mezquital in the mid 1700's, hoping to find a notation about Miguel and Marias parentage.  If that fails, I will try to find other trees that connect with mine that have been better researched.

The Tepechitlan parish record of the marriage of Jose Santiago Mercado + M. Guadelupe Luna in 1779 took 14 Spanish speakers and months of related research to translate!!  The padre had a case of the shakes.

I am very pleased to find and join your group and will be happy to share any of my information with you.  Unfortunately, the last Spanish speaker in my line died 112 years ago, but I will use Google translate where I can.

Harry

Comentario

Harry Mercado
Thank you so much, Christopher. Yours is the first link of my family between these two towns.

I construct a possible time line:

Miguel Mercado and wife Maria Gertrudis Garcia bear son Manuel in Nochistlan 1732 - 1737. They move to Mezquital where they have 5 more children between 1740 and 1751. Oldest son Manuel marries Gertrudis Gutierres in 1750 in Mezquital. This would explain how the children were born in different towns.

Harry

Comentario

Harry,

Because Nochistlan was the first Guadalajara. Here's a link to it's
history. It was one of the first settlements after the arrival of the
Spaniards and it's records in the early years encompassed what is now
Mexticacan, Yahualica and even Cuquio Jalisco. Also encompassed were,
Juchipila, Apozol, Mezquital del Oro and Moyahua Zacatecas. So it may be
that they never left Mezquital, but that the records were generated and
archived in Nochistlan and when they began to keep records in the new
municipios, you will then find them elsewhere, in the newly created
municipios.

If you understand the history, you'll begin to see why you may find your
ancestors in other towns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nochistl%C3%A1n_de_Mej%C3%ADa_Municipality

Alicia

On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:14 AM, wrote:

> Harry Mercado
> Thank you so much, Christopher. Yours is the first link of my family
> between these two towns.
>
> I construct a possible time line:
>
> Miguel Mercado and wife Maria Gertrudis Garcia bear son Manuel in
> Nochistlan 1732 - 1737. They move to Mezquital where they have 5 more
> children between 1740 and 1751. Oldest son Manuel marries Gertrudis
> Gutierres in 1750 in Mezquital. This would explain how the children were
> born in different towns.
>
> Harry

Comentario

Harry Mercado
Thanks again Alicia - I think I'm finally getting it. The people didn't move, their recording points moved.

I wonder that some church records comment on the hometown of the person, parent, etc. In the absence of such a comment on place can I assume the place is the parish recording the event?

Harry

Comentario

some times I wonder if there were priests who traveled to the smaller towns to baptize mostly and that would explain so many being done on the same day..
just a thought.
Linda in Olympia, Wa.
On Saturday, April 26, 2014 3:33 AM, "mercado@riverfast.net" wrote:

Harry Mercado
Thanks again Alicia - I think I'm finally getting it.  The people didn't move, their recording points moved.

I wonder that some church records comment on the hometown of the person, parent, etc.  In the absence of such a comment on place can I assume the place is the parish recording the event?

Harry

Comentario

Thank you Alicia,

Tino had always said that his mother's family, as told by her were from Guadalajara, though my research placed them in Nochistlan for many years.

Your explanation and added link confirms that Tino's maternal ancestry was indeed from Guadalajara/Nochistlan...

Sad that my mother-in-law was not alive at the time that I started to research her family history...

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:02:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan - Mezquital time Lines

Harry,

Because Nochistlan was the first Guadalajara. Here's a link to it's
history. It was one of the first settlements after the arrival of the
Spaniards and it's records in the early years encompassed what is now
Mexticacan, Yahualica and even Cuquio Jalisco. Also encompassed were,
Juchipila, Apozol, Mezquital del Oro and Moyahua Zacatecas. So it may be
that they never left Mezquital, but that the records were generated and
archived in Nochistlan and when they began to keep records in the new
municipios, you will then find them elsewhere, in the newly created
municipios.

If you understand the history, you'll begin to see why you may find your
ancestors in other towns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nochistl%C3%A1n_de_Mej%C3%ADa_Municipality

Alicia

On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:14 AM, wrote:

> Harry Mercado
> Thank you so much, Christopher. Yours is the first link of my family
> between these two towns.
>
> I construct a possible time line:
>
> Miguel Mercado and wife Maria Gertrudis Garcia bear son Manuel in
> Nochistlan 1732 - 1737. They move to Mezquital where they have 5 more
> children between 1740 and 1751. Oldest son Manuel marries Gertrudis
> Gutierres in 1750 in Mezquital. This would explain how the children were
> born in different towns.
>
> Harry

Comentario

Welcome Harry to Nuestros Ranchos,

There are many experienced genealogists, researchers, historians, DNA
experts that are ready and willing to assist in any way they can.

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:56 PM, wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am in northern California and hope to become active in the local
> Nuestros group.
>
> I descend from a Miguel Mercado and his wife Maria Gertrudis Garcia.
> Their son, Jose Santiago Mercado was born in Mezquital Del Oro, Zac. Sept
> 8, 1748. I have a fairly well developed genealogy from that point forward.
> But I do not know Miguel's roots.
>
> Miguel and Maria had at least 5 children in Mezquital between 1740 and
> 1751. During the same time period, and in the same pueblo, Sebastian
> Mercado and Lucianna Nunes had four children - one being born in
> Nochistlan. Another Mercado couple, Nicolas and Maria Ynigues had at least
> one child in Mezquital. Finally, too, a Manuel Mercado and Gertrudis
> Guitierres had at least one child.
>
> So Mezquital Del Oro was a supermercado (pun) source. I would be
> interested in connecting with any persons from these lines to get a lead on
> Miguel Mercado's birthplace.
>
> Also I note that Nochistlan generated many Mercados in the 1708 - 1729
> period. So perhaps some of these were in my line. The families there
> included Sebastian Mercado + Maria Lomelin and (2) Maria de Torres,
> Cristobal Mercado + M. Angela de la Torres, Calletano Mercado + Francisco
> Nunes.
>
> My immediate plan is to try to get and translate some of the baptismal
> records for Mezquital in the mid 1700's, hoping to find a notation about
> Miguel and Marias parentage. If that fails, I will try to find other trees
> that connect with mine that have been better researched.
>
> The Tepechitlan parish record of the marriage of Jose Santiago Mercado +
> M. Guadelupe Luna in 1779 took 14 Spanish speakers and months of related
> research to translate!! The padre had a case of the shakes.
>
> I am very pleased to find and join your group and will be happy to share
> any of my information with you. Unfortunately, the last Spanish speaker in
> my line died 112 years ago, but I will use Google translate where I can.
>
> Harry
>
>

Comentario

Harry Mercado

Thanks for the welcome, Alicia. I do need help.

A friend did some digging for me in Teul and Tepechitlan. He discovered that there is a person in Teul called El Hombre Cronista. My friend is learning Spanish, but interpreted Cronista as a historical specialist for that pueblo.

I wonder is such a person or office exists in Mezquital Del Oro, a small village, and how to proceed to make contact.

Thanks,

Harry

Comentario

Harry,

Cronistas from each town are available and while I've never used one, I
believe their specialty is the history of the town and it's people. They
might charge a pretty penny and you don't know what they will find, if they
find anything.

You show that Jose Santiago Mercado was born in Mezquital Del Oro, Zac. on
Sept 8, 1748. so that would indicate that his parents were born about 15-25
years earlier. From 1723 to 1733 at the earliest. Mezquital del Oros'
records begin with the year 1737 for baptisms, Informacion Matrimonial
starts in 1734 and Matrimonios begin in 1739. Most likely the birth records
for Miguel Mercado would be in a different surrounding municipio.

I checked on maps of Zacatecas. Here's the link, it's a huge link so I hope
it works and it shows that the nearest municipios are Juchipila, records
begin in 1846, Moyahua, records begin in the 1800's. Garcia de la Cadena,
Teul de Gonzalez Ortega, Bapt begins in 1649 (good place to search). So
look in the surrounding municipios. if this link doesn't work, you can do a
search under "mapa zacatecas mexico municipios.

Good Luck, Buena Suerte;

.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcXYuo1lTRsMA_2.jzb…-?back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dmapa%2Bzacatecas%2Bmexico%2Bmunicipios%26type%3Dsbc_dial%26hsimp%3Dyhs-att_001%26hspart%3Datt&w=602&h=769&imgurl=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fb%2Fbd%2FLos_Municipios_del_Estado_Zacatecano.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fno.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFil%3ALos_Municipios_del_Estado_Zacatecano.jpg&size=241.5KB&name=Beskrivelse+Los+%3Cb%3EMunicipios+%3C%2Fb%3Edel+Estado+Zacatecano.jpg&p=mapa+zacatecas+mexico+municipios&oid=d168aa8df73e81b079ab94e3b94932e1&fr2=&fr=&tt=Beskrivelse+Los+%3Cb%3EMunicipios+%3C%2Fb%3Edel+Estado+Zacatecano.jpg&b=0&ni=144&no=7&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=129hd8gce&sigb=13qsg9hfn&sigi=12kqa8fu2&sigt=11r1ltr58&sign=11r1ltr58&.crumb=rpGaQErvIpy&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att

On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:36 PM, wrote:

> Harry Mercado
>
> Thanks for the welcome, Alicia. I do need help.
>
> A friend did some digging for me in Teul and Tepechitlan. He discovered
> that there is a person in Teul called El Hombre Cronista. My friend is
> learning Spanish, but interpreted Cronista as a historical specialist for
> that pueblo.
>
> I wonder is such a person or office exists in Mezquital Del Oro, a small
> village, and how to proceed to make contact.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harry
>
>

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