Nuestros Ranchos Site

They are also supposed to change the subject of the email so it doesn't have "General Digest, Vol such and such"

Welcome, Danny!
You are so fortunate to start your interest at such a young age! I envy you.
Some advice that I wish was given to me:
This is a fantastic way to learn Spanish so don't just scan records for the information you want. Read the whole thing. You will find interesting tidbits of information in the "meat" of some documents.
Translate the whole record. What is not important now, may be a clue later. This includes noting padrinos (godparents), ranches, etc. Back then padrinos were mostly family. My personal experience is that I kept finding records for the family of Santiago Mora but he was not connected to my family. He was, however, frequently a padrino to my documented family. I made a separate tree for Santiago and his family and later found the common ancestor. As soon as I found this, I added 4 generations of Moras to my tree.
Note your sources!!!!!!!! Years later and I am still adding sources because I was so anxious in the beginning that I skipped this step.REGRET! Now it takes so long to retrace steps as I gain experience of how to research.Noting sources saved me when a new found relative questioned my information. Mine was sourced, she still didn't believe it but she was able to look at my sources and found she had been doing years of research in the wrong region. Not uncommon which is why you should use index information as the first step before looking at the actual record.
If you are using Family Search for films, note actual page numbers of the book as well as image numbers. If you have to go back or want to share information, it is so much easier.
Talk to the older generation now! Names and dates are fantastic but my personal favorites are what can't be found in documents: favorite holidays and how they were celebrated, favorite foods and recipes, how did people meet, occupation, describe a typical day in their childhood, who were the ancestors that migrated and why, etc
Good luck, Danny!

Juan Antonio de Robalcaba native and resident of this town in Estanzuela legitimate son of Miguel de Rovalcaba , deceased and Maria Isabel de Villalobos Legitima Daughter of Joseph Manuel Masias de Fuente and Maria Josepha de Aguirre

These classes by Angel are not available online.

> 2. Re: The Basque connection to New Mexican Families (Joseph
> > Puentes)
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 21:17:26 -0500
> > > From: "Joseph Puentes"
> > > To: ,
>
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: The Basque connection to New
> Mexican
> > > Families (Haplogroup R1b1)
> > > Message-ID: <0ca901d0377b$e68d0110$b3a70330$@rr.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 9:07 PM
> > > To: undisclosed-recipients:
> > > Subject: The Basque connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup
> > > R1b1)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on the Basque
> > > connection
> > to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup R1b1). If you would like to learn
> > more about the mark this ancient civilization made on the Iberian
> > Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will be a
> > presentation on the subject on February 20, at 3:30 PM, through the
> > University of New Mexico Continuing Education program.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat
> > ion
> > <
> >
> http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat
> > ion&int_class_id=67463>
> > &int_class_id=67463
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > ?ngel de Cervantes
> > > Project Administrator
> > > New Mexico DNA Project
> > > Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

C M = Ciudadano Mexicano

2015-02-06 22:44 GMT-06:00 Beverly Ewald :

>
>
> I have recently come across some baptismal records that have the infant's
> names, followed by the initials C. M. Can anyone tell me what the C. M.
> stands for? Thanks.
>
>
>
> See this image:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20465-15470-77?cc=1860864…
> C48-SM9:167670301,167670302,168112901
>

C M = Ciudadano Mexicano

2015-02-06 22:44 GMT-06:00 Beverly Ewald :

>
>
> I have recently come across some baptismal records that have the infant's
> names, followed by the initials C. M. Can anyone tell me what the C. M.
> stands for? Thanks.
>
>
>
> See this image:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20465-15470-77?cc=1860864…
> C48-SM9:167670301,167670302,168112901
>

i'm not sure either, i would love to find a database on that subject

This book is available through the used books section of Amazom.com. Prices and conditions seem reasonable.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

My ancestors were also from Zapotlan el Grande (Ciudad Guzman).
My Great Grandfather x7, Antonio Rodriguez married Theresa Ramires July 06, 1706, Zapotlan El Grande. They had a son by the name of Thomas who decided to carry on his mothers surname "Ramires". Thomas is also identified as "hijo legitimo" de Antonio Rodriguez.

Not sure if carrying on your mothers surname was custom throughout Mexico but in some areas it was. I also have read that if a couple had many children it was expected for at least one of them to carry on the mothers surname. We will let the experts comment and educate us on that.

I just wanted to also add that I am a participant in the Family Tree DNA project and have my results to share with anyone. My YDNA is I-M223 I2a2a (I believe its the same as I2b1). Wish more people from Southern Jalisco would participate in the DNA project.

I am a native of Southern California and very familiar with the San Fernando Valley. I got married in Encino, CA. I have read about the Sepulveda, Bandini, De La Guerra y Noriega, Pico and other surnames (families) that lived and owned land in S. California.

I will follow your story

That's interesting information. I'm willing to help with the DNA results. However, there is a limitation on what can be determined based on the type and level of testing and how well documented the trees of the matches are and how much Y-DNA SNP testing the matches have done. The Y-DNA STR test should be at least 37 markers, but 67 markers are much better, to find matches. If there are no matches then the results will be limited to providing information on the haplogroup which would likely need additional SNP testing for anything conclusive for a region and time period for when the SNP first appeared based on ancient remains and/or calculated estimates.

Any autosomal testing would be limited to ethnicity results since that too long ago to prove a connection to any families in Jalisco.

Information from mtDNA results depend on the level of testing, haplogroup, matches, and trees of the matches. If it isn't Full Sequence testing it will be harder to find matches of significance. If the haplogroup is common in a lot of people of the same ethnicity of the maternal line then it will also be hard to provide any information other than a large geographical region where the haplogroup is most common.

Armando

you could check bolanos, teul, or tepechitlan

There was never an agreement though. The marrying of españoles with other españoles was due to being able to maintain a higher status in society by marrying other people considered to be españoles. Since marrying into a lower class would cause them to be reduced in class they tried to avoid that. This happened all over Mexico and not just in Los Altos. When peninsulares with daughters moved to the region that allowed the Alteños to marry them maintain a higher ratio of Spanish ancestry. There would be no need to have an agreement to do something that the rest of society in Latin America expected a person to do.

Armando

Normally I have read and heard about indiano being used for a person born in Spain that has gone to the Indies (America) and made a lot of money and gone back to Spain to live the rest of his life. However, that's the 4th definition in the dictionary of the Real Academia Española http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=indiano

It's the first definition that seems to be what is used. Saying that he was born in America but his origins (ancestry) is from Spain.

I'm basing that on that fact that it says he was "natural de la ciudad de Guayaquil en la America Meridional y vago ya por varios puntos de esta septentrional..." which literally means he was "born in Guayaquil in South America and he traveled through various points of this North [America]" and because on the left indent it says español indiano which would mean his ancestry is considered Spanish.

Meridional means south and septentrional means north.

Maria de la Luz AVILA Calvillo had one sibling that I know of:

Luis Serapio AVILA Calvillo #299471
baptized 3 Sep 1838, El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Ags
hijo legitimo de Don Joaquin AVILA y doña Feliciana CALVILLO
Abuelos paternos: Don Antonio de AVILA y doña Ynes DIAS de TISCARENO
Abuelos maternos: Don Rodrigo CALVILLO y doña Ana LOPEZ PORTILLO
Madrina: Doña Mariana CALVILLO
p 215 (I don't have a batch number, these are from my notes years ago when I read the film)

Don Joaquin AVILA had a sister:
Maria Gertrudis AVILA Dias-Tiscareno, c. 1775
A submission to the IGI gives her husband as:
Joseph Sotero CALBILLO Ximenes
hijo de Vicente CALVILLO y Maria Jeronima XIMENEZ Albarado
I have not checked this out.

A Sotero CALVILLO was the testigo to the marriage of:
Jose Maria MACIAS Calvillo to Anna Maria DIAS Medina, Jun 1791

Joseph Sotero CALBILLO and Maria Gertrudis AVILA were married in 1803, according to a submission to IGI.
They had at least 5 children that I know of, the first child I would recheck:

Joseph Eduardo, bap 15 Oct 1792, El Sagrario, Ags, Ags [from IGI]
Juan Jose Nepomuceno, born 2 Jan, bap 5 Jan 1802 - #299457
Jose Lorenzo Cesilio, born 01 Feb, bap 3 Feb 1803 - #299457
Padrinos: Don Jose Maria AVILA y doña M. Josefa AVILA
Maria del Rosario, about 1805
Jose Ygnacio, born 11 Jul, bap 15 Jul 1808 - #299457

About Matiana ESPARSA - I've got at least 5 of them in my database, all from the same area and time frame. Matiana was a very popular name back then.

Gloria

Daniel:

The descendants of Lope Ruiz de Esparza are well documented up to a certain point, as Bill mentioned. The records in Aguascalientes are pretty decent as well so if you could provide us with some more details about Francisco Esparza and Matiana Esparza (i.e. whom did they marry and approximately what year?) we can probably trace them back to one of the documented branches of the Ruiz de Esparza family.

Is this the same Matiana per chance? If so, you can order the film and find out who her parents were. There are too many Franciscos for me to list but as I said if you can help us with his spouse's name we may be able to track him down too.

MATIANA ESPARZA
Spouse: PABLO VILLALOBOS
Marriage: 03 JUN 1865 San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Batch No.: M604355 Film No.: 0635888

No it can't but contact Angel (see his email below) for more information

> > From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]

Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias compañeros

alguien tiene noticias o alguna novedad
sobre la publicacion del libro de don guillermo tovar y teresa
donde menciona el documento donde muestra el linaje de petronila de moctezuma

a diego arias de sotelo y leonor balderrama como padres de petronila ?

espero y haiga noticias buenas y muy pronto

saludos
excelente dia

Andres Gonzalez

I believe most of what I am copying below from a GEDCOM file I downloaded is already mentioned in these posts but just in case there is something new here it is below. This GEDCOM goes back further so if anyone is interested I can upload it.

Andy

NAME Leonor /de Moctezuma/
NAME
GIVN Leonor
SURN de Moctezuma
NICK Mariana Leonor
NICK Marina
SEX. F
NOTE {geni:about_me} One of three maiden daughters presented to Hernan Cortes by Moctezuma in November 1519, according to Hernando Alvarado Tezozomoc, writer for Crónica Mexicayotl (published 1975). Born from the daughter of chief coun
NOTE
CONT selor Tlilpotonqui (Moctezuma II's cousin). Married twice, received as dowry the town of Ecatepec within present Mexico Estado in the first marriage:
CONT Spouses:
CONT *1. Juan de la Paez.
CONT *2. Cristobal de Valderama (who sired Leonor Valderama de Moctezuma - Leonor married Diego Arias de Sotelo and were progenitors of the Sotelo Moctezuma family)
CONT Source: Doña Isabel de Moctezuma: the emperor’s favourite daughter? by Anastasia Kalyuta, ethnohistorian with the Russian Museum of Ethnography, St. Petersburg
CONT http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/index.php?one=azt&two=moc&id=456
CONT ____________________________________________________
CONT Schmal, John P.; ''Moctezuma's Descendants in Aguascalientes'' ... ''Tracking the offspring of the last Aztec monarch'' ... [LatinoLA: January 8, 2014] ... http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449
CONT '''The Aguascalientes Branch''' ... For many years, Aguascalientes and Nueva Galicia researchers have agreed that one branch of Moctezuma's descendants ended up in Aguascalientes. However, this family was not as well chronicled as the other branches of the family. Several researchers, including Guillermo Tovar de Teresa and Mariano Gonzalez-Leal, have put together a fair amount of information on this lineage, although the paper trail for this branch is not perfect as it is for some of the other descendants of Moctezuma.
CONT '''GENERATION 2: MARIANA LEONOR MOCTEZUMA (1505-1562)'''
CONT MARIANA LEONOR MOCTEZUMA was one of the daughters of Moctezuma II. It is believed that she was Moctezuma's daughter by a noble Mixtec woman of Acatlan, a town and province that was in alliance with Tenochtitlán at the time of the Spanish invasion. Leonor was Christianized by Hernán Cortés and was then endowed with the encomienda of Ecatepec. The fact that Moctezuma was the father of '''Leonor''' ('''alias Marina''') and father-in-law of X'poval [Christoval] de Valderrama was confirmed by a '''1574 family tree chart that is available in Mexico's Archivo General (Mexico Archivo General - AGI - MP - Escudos: 211)'''.
CONT According to the author Donald E. Chipman (''Moctezuma's Children: Aztec Royalty Under Spanish Rule'', 1520-1700, pp. 70-71), '''Marianna''' was married in '''1527''' to '''Juan Páez''', a conquistador who died by late '''August 1529'''. Two years later in '''1531''', Mariana married her second husband, '''Cristobal de Valderrama'''. Don Cristobal, a native of Burgos, España, was a conquistador who served in Michoacán, Colima and Zacatula. The History of Tarímbaro (Michoacán) states that Cristobal de Valderrama was given the encomienda of Tarímbaro (1526-1537) and of Ecatepec, and he is mentioned in the text of Michoacán's early history during the 1530s until his death in '''November 1537'''. Mariana and Don Cristobal had only one daughter, Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma, who was baptized sometime around '''1532'''. Chipman discusses this family on pages 76 through 77 of his book.

NAME Leonor /Valderrama de Moctezuma/
NAME
GIVN Leonor
SURN Valderrama de Moctezuma
SEX. F
BIRT
DATE ABT 1532
DEAT
DATE ABT 1562
NOTE {geni:about_me} Schmal, John P.; ''Moctezuma's Descendants in Aguascalientes'' ... ''Tracking the offspring of the last Aztec monarch'' ... [LatinoLA: January 8, 2014] ... http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449
NOTE
CONT '''GENERATION 3: LEONOR DE VALDERRAMA''' (born 1532 – died 1562)
CONT '''LEONOR DE VALDERRAMA Y MOCTEZUMA''', the second encomendera of Tarímbaro and Ecatepec, was probably born around 1532 and is believed to have died in 1562 when she was only 30 years old. Leonor de Valderrama y de Moctezuma was married to DIEGO ARIAS DE SOTELO, a native of Zamora, España, who was born around 1525.
CONT Diego Arias de Sotelo came to Nueva España in 1550 as a waiter of Viceroy Luis de Velasco and eventually served as Alcalde Ordinario de Méjico in 1561. A document dated June 30, 1559 confirms Diego Arias de Sotelo as "Regidor" in Mexico, referring to his parents as Capitan Antonio Sotelo and Vzenda Nunez. Diego and Leonor were involved in lengthy law-suits which consumed the rest of their lives and which, according to the author Donald E. Chipman, involvedthe disputed properties in Ecatepec and Tlatelolco.
CONT During the late 1560s, Diego Arias Sotelo got into trouble with the Vice Royalty, along with his brother, who was executed for his alleged crimes against the state. Diego Arias Sotelo was exiled to Spain in 1568 for his participation in the plot of Don Martin Cortes, but his son Fernando stepped in to take over the encomienda of Ecatepec from him. It is believed that Leonor died in 1562. Her husband, Diego Arias de Sotelo died four years later on July 7, 1566.
CONT '''Leonor Valderrama and her husband Diego Arias de Sotelo had the following children''':
CONT # '''Don Fernando de Sotelo''', the third encomendero of Tarímbaro and San Cristobal Ecatepec. He later became the Mayor of Colima and died sometime after 1604.
CONT # '''Don Cristobal de Sotelo Valderrama''' was married Juana de Heredia Patino in 1594 in Mexico City and is believed to have died in 1607.
CONT # '''Dona Ana de Sotelo Moctezuma''', baptized Sept. 7, 1553 in Asuncion Parish, Mexico City. She became a nun.
CONT # ''' Petronila Moctezuma''' (Montezuma). She was married to Martin de Gabay, also known as Martin Navarro.
CONT In addition to locating the baptism of Ana in 1553, we discovered a 1594 marriage document from the Archdiocese of Mexico City which provides the following information: "X'poval [Christobal] Sotelo Valderrama natural de esta ciudad hijo legitimo de Diego Arias Sotelo y Don Leonor ---- [unreadable] - difuntos [deceased]." Christoval was the brother of Petronila Sotelo alias Petronila Moctezuma, who represents the next generation of this family.

NAME Petronila /Sotelo de Moctezuma/
NAME
GIVN Petronila
SURN Sotelo de Moctezuma
SEX. F
BIRT
DATE ABT 1552
ADDR
CITY Aguascalientes
STAE Reino de Nueva Galicia
CTRY Reino de Nueva España
DEAT
DATE ABT 1628
ADDR
STAE Reino de México
CTRY Reino de Nueva España
NOTE {geni:about_me} Schmal, John P.; ''Moctezuma's Descendants in Aguascalientes'' ... ''Tracking the offspring of the last Aztec monarch'' ... [LatinoLA: January 8, 2014] ... http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449
NOTE
CONT '''GENERATION 4: PETRONILLA MOCTEZUMA''' (born 1552)
CONT PETRONILA SOTELO MOCTEZUMA was probably '''born around 1552 in Mexico City'''. It is '''believed that in 1571 she was married to MARTIN GABAI DE NAVARRO''', also known as MARTIN NABARRO. A marriage of Petronila and Martin has not been located yet, however, they were referenced several times as an ancestral married couple "Martin Nabarro" and "Petronila Montesuma" in a 1703 Diocese of Guadalajara informacion matrimonio document for a marriage that took place in Nochistlán. The known children of Petronila Sotelo (alias Moctezuma) and of Martin Gabai de Navarro are shown below:
CONT * Maria Gabay, who married to Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus. Maria Gabay (Gabai) is also mentioned in the 1703 marriage document.
CONT * Ana-Francisca Gabay, born circa 1573-1577, married circa 1594-95 to Lope Ruiz de Esparza, died March 30, 1652, Villa de Aguascalientes - married LOPE RUIZ-DE-ESPARZA. He died 14 Aug 1651 in Aguascalientes.
CONT Many of the descendants of this family as discussed in detail in "Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII Según Sus Archivos Parroquiales" by José Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez de Frías (2001).

Edgar Olguin Diaz

buenos dias a todos

aqui encontre un comentario que publico ElCapitanPaco este es el link
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21906?page=3
aqui comenta un fragmento del libro de don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
donde mencionan el linaje MOCTEZUMA pero no mencionan las fuentes
y quiero compartirlo con ustedes para que me pudieran dar su punto de vista
el contenido es el siguiente:

APÉNDICE

MOCTEZUMA

Una vez estando en prensa la presente obra, don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa ha tenido la gentileza de proporcionarme información sumamente valiosa, producto de su personal investigación, que complemente esta monografía y también la correspondiente a la familia Fernández de Vaulus. En virtud de que esta obra ha sido concluida y se encuentra ya en proceso de impresión, la incluyo en este Apéndice de manera sumamente sintetizada y omitiendo las citas bibliográficas que le sirven de soporte, en espera de que el ilustre humanista la publique integralmente con todo el aparato crítico que la respalda:

Moctezuma II, nacido hacia 1480, fue padre, entre otros hijos, de: a) doña Isabel Moctezuma, llamada en su gentilidad Tecuichpo, de quien queda abundante descendencia en diversos matrimonios; b) don Pedro Moctezuma, de quien proceden los Condes de Moctezuma; c) doña Leonor Moctezuma –que específicamente interesa a este Apéndice-, casada en primeras nupcias hacia 1527 con Juan Páez, o Juan de Paz; y en segundas, en 1531, con el Conquistador Cristóbal de Valderrama, encomendero de Tarímbaro (desde 1526 hasta 1537) y de Ecatepec.

Doña Leonor de Moctezuma y su segundo esposo, el Conquistador Cristóbal de Valderrama, fueron padres a su vez de: a) doña Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma, segunda encomendera de Tarímbaro y Ecatepec, fallecida en 1562. Casó con Diego Arias de Sotelo, natural de Zamora, nacido en 1525. Vino a la Nueva España en 1550 como camarero del Virrey don Luis de Velasco. Fue Alcalde Ordinario de Méjico en 1561, y en 1568 fue desterrado a España por haber participado en la conjura de don Martín Cortés.

Doña Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma y su esposo Diego Arias de Sotelo procrearon a su vez los siguientes hijos: a) don Fernando de Sotelo Moctezuma, tercer encomendero de Tarímbaro y San Cristóbal Ecatepec. Fue Alcalde Mayor de Colima. Murió después de 1604. Casó con doña María de Cervantes-Villaseñor y Corona, hija de don Juan de Villaseñor-Cervantes y de doña Catalina Corona, con descendencia en la provincia de Michoacán; b) don Cristóbal de Sotelo Valderrama, fallecido en 1607; casado con doña Juana de Heredia Patiño, con descendencia en el norte de Méjico; c) doña Ana de Sotelo Moctezuma, Monja en Santa Clara; d) doña Petronila Moctezuma, conocida también con los apellidos de Valderrama Moctezuma. Casó con Martín de Gabay, conocido como el Navarro y otras veces llamado Martín Navarro.

Doña Petronila Moctezuma y su esposo Martín de Gabay, el Navarro, o Martín Navarro, fueron padres a su vez de: a) María de Gabay, casada con Pedro Fernández de Vaulus, de quienes procede la famita de este apellido que se estudia bajo el rubro correspondiente; b) Francisca de Gabay, casada hacia 1594 con Lope Ruiz de Esparza, de quienes se habla –como de su descendencia- en el cuerpo de la presente monografía.

Agradezco profundamente a don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa esta valiosa colaboración.

“

Y eso es todo lo que dice al respecto. Por desgracia, en las notas no se indica con precisión absoluta las fuentes fidedignas de los datos, pero algo es algo. Si don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa aseveraba que este era el linaje, algo ha de haber sabido.

espero noticias

excelente dia a todos

Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas tardes a todos
cuando publicaran el libro donde se mencionan a los padres de petronila de moctezuma?

es muy interesante necesito esa informacion se los agradezceria mucho

me gustaria estudiar ese docmento donde se hace esa mencion

saludos a todos
excelenete dia

Aldo,

Aparte de otros documentos que comprueban que Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma fue nieta del emperador Moctezuma existe un documento en el rollo matromonios 779562
Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
que menciona al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma hija legitima del emperador Moctezuma y de La ? Acatlanhijo del Rey de Soconusco.

Lo que nos falta a todos es una copia del documento que comprueba que Petronila era hija de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma. Guillermo Tovar y Teresa había encontrado ese documento y tenia planeado publicar la información y la fuente en un libro pero falleció el 10 de noviembre 2013. El 31 de julio Angelina Markle publicó que había leído en un articulo publicado en marzo que decía que Rafael, hermano de Guillermo, encontró un libro inédito de su hermano titulado "Historia de Mexico" el cual va a publicar. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22352

Parte de la información que encontró Guillermo la compartió con Mariano González Leal y la publicó Mariano en 2011 en Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia. Steven Francisco Hernández López compartió el contenido del apéndice Moctezuma de Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21906. Verás que asevera que Petronila era hija de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma y que "casó con Martín de Gabay, conocido como el Navarro y otras veces llamado Martín Navarro."

Armando

Aldo

I've spent a fair amount of time looking for this connection, but have never been able to find anything documented.

The Codex Chimalpahin has some tantalizing information which I previously posted:

Leonore de Moctezuma's section named her husband Cristobal de Valderrama, their daughter Leonore, and her (the daughter Lenore) marriage with Diego Sotelo. Their children (Ana and Hernando Sotelo de Moctezuma) are called quadroons. Hernando [or Fernando from other records] it says had several children: five that are commonly seen in the published genealogies, and five more who are unnamed!! This is most interesting.

The section on Valderrama de Moctezuma / Sotelo de Moctezuma repeats this information, with some additions: It says the five children (still names unknown) are living with their father in Michhuacan. [Is "Michhuacan" Michoacan?] It says that these five children are all Spaniards because their mother was a Spaniard and their father was a quadroon. This was written in 1619.

The full post is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19171

University libraries should have the books (it's two volumes); the set is available from the University of Oklahoma Press, and other booksellers.

See also http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21989 which sheds more light on the Arias de Sotelo family, but the link we are looking for is still not found.

Chipman's work, Moctezuma's Children, is very useful, but makes no mention whatsoever of Petronila, nor does he have quite the same information concerning the children of Arias de Sotelo (he has the usual five, but not the others noted by Chimalpahin).

There have been references here at NR to work that is said to establish the connection, but no documents have been publically identified that I'm aware of.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA