Does anyone have any information on Juan de Alba and Antonia Marin? I think Juan de Alba and Antonia Marin would've married around 1740-1750.
I will check through my records tomorrow. If I remember correctly, the correct surname is Marin de la Pena Losa.
R.A.Ricci
I'm unsure about who potentially may be my 4th and 5th Grandfather.
David Serna
Tengo esta familia en mi base de datos. Probablemente porque yo estaba esperando a encontrar la conexión con la familia Gallegos en Jaltiches, Santos o El Papanton.
Antonio Gallegos n. ABT 1807 esposo de Julia Romo; Hijo de Nepomuceno y esposa de Carmen Calvillo. El es la famila de mi padrino y buenos amigos de mi padre que cuenta 92 anos.
O Dioncicio "Nicho" Gallegos n. 1800 esposa de Jesus Perez. Tambien familia de mi papa. ¿Los tiene en su base de datos?
Voy a revisar este fin de semana..... que tenía pensando para dar atención a Matrimonios y Informacion Matrimonial si le da informacion del origen de la familia. Tal vez la revisión de otras familias Gallegos en San Felipe, Gto. le ayudará.
Mi familia es de La Serna, Esqueda, Perezchica, y Ibarra. Desde Media Luna, Las Moras, Mesa Grande, La Presa, Arroyo de Soto, y El Agostadero .... Mi base de datos tiene mas de 5000 personas.
Buena suerte, David.
I have this family in my database. Probably because i was waiting to find the connection to the Gallegos family in Jaltiches, Santos, or El Papanton.
Antonio Gallegos b. abt 1807 husband of Julia Romo; Hijo de Nepomuceno y esposa de Carmen Calvillo. My Padrions family.
Or perhaps Dioncicio "Nicho" Gallegos b. 1800 husband of Jesus Perez. My fathers family. Do you have them in your database?
I will check later this weekend, I had in mind to pay attention to Matrimonios and Informacion Matrimonial as this my give the origin of the family. Perhaps reviewing other Gallegos families in San Felipe will help.
My Family is Serna, Esqueda, Perezchica, y Ibarra. From Media Luna, Las Moras, Mesa Grande, La Presa, Arroyo de Soto, El Agostadero.... My database is 5000+ individuals.
Good Luck, David.
David,
No tengo las personas que mencionaste en mi base de datos; sin embargo, casi toda mi familia por parte de los Gallegos son de San Tadeo, Las Moras y Mesa Grande. Quizas existe algun parentesco con tu padrino y/o tu papa.
Mencionas que tambien tienes el apelido Ibarra. Mi tercera tatarabuela (3rd Great Grandmother) se llamaba Maria Dionicia de Jesus De Ybarra nacida el 8 de Abril de 1805 en Calvillo, Aguascalientes. Ella es hija de Jose Guadalupe De Ybarra y Maria Eucebia de Esparza. Las hermanas de Dionicia De Ybarra eran Maria Nicolasa, Maria Ignacia, Maria Refugia y Maria Dolores; todas nacidas en Calvillo, Aguascalientes, tambien. Por favor checa tu base de datos y hazme saber si tienes algunos de estos nombres.
Saludos
Miguel Gallegos
David Serna
Sí tengo datos que muestran que se casó 19 de enero 1803, Calvillo.
Matrimonios 1772-1813 imagen 317 of 461, pagina 55.
David Serna
En la información matrimonial Él es un vecino de Canoas, solteros, y un español de calidad. Tiene 25 años de edad. Ella es de la congregación, 19 años de viejo célibe.
Información matrimonial 1801-1803> Imagen 407 de 705. Page 2.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11881-85473-59?cc=1502404&…
My 4th great grandparents' marriage record:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18724-61739-21?cc=1874591&wc…
Sandra,
Thanks so much...that will guide me in further research.
Welcome to the Forum - it's a great place!
Saludos,
Roy
I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this.
Why would Jose Leal Cantis appear with Guadlupe Flores to present someone
else's child?
I just learned that my grandmother's US birth certificate was false and I
am trying to locate her correct birth record.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22296-57800-55?cc=1916233…
I just want to make sure I am not reading this wrong.
Thanks so much for your help.
Stacy
ᐧ
Sorry, I am asking about acta numero 1550.
ᐧ
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Stacy Latocha Newelt wrote:
> I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this.
>
> Why would Jose Leal Cantis appear with Guadlupe Flores to present someone
> else's child?
>
> I just learned that my grandmother's US birth certificate was false and I
> am trying to locate her correct birth record.
>
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22296-57800-55?cc=1916233…
>
> I just want to make sure I am not reading this wrong.
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
>
> Stacy
>
He didn't. The acta states that Jose Leal Cantu was the "Juez del Estado Civil" which literally translates as "Civil Judge" but I have come to interpret over time of reading these as more like a Clerk of Court.
Anyway, in this acta, 28-yr old Guadalupe Flores, originally from Guadalajara, is presenting his legitimate child with his 20-yr old wife Virginia Ovalle, originally from Zacatecas, and they have named her Carmen.
If you'll notice, all of the other registrations also have Jose Leal Cantu's name on them as "Juez del Estado Civil" and he's the one doing the actual recording of the registrations.
Sandra Velez
It says "ante el juez del estado civil José Leal Cantu, compareció
Guadalupe Flores de 28 veinteocho años originario de Guadalajara, Jalisco
vecino de este en el campo ambulante del ferrocarril 4.., y presentó viva a
una niña exponiendo que es hija legitima legitima suya y de su esposa
Virginia Ovalle, de 20 años veinte años, originaria de Zacatecas."
Translation
"In front of the judge of the civil court José Leal Cantu appeared
Guadalupe Flores of 28 years of age originally of Guadalajara, Jalisco
resident of the migrant camp of railroad 4..., and he presented a girl with
life stating that it is his legitimate child and of his wife Virginia
Ovalle of 20 years of age originally of Zacatecas."
As you can see José Leal Cantu was the civil judge that Guadalupe presented
his daughter to.
Armando
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Stacy Latocha Newelt wrote:
> Sorry, I am asking about acta numero 1550.
> ᐧ
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Stacy Latocha Newelt >wrote:
>
> > I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this.
> >
> > Why would Jose Leal Cantis appear with Guadlupe Flores to present someone
> > else's child?
> >
> > I just learned that my grandmother's US birth certificate was false and I
> > am trying to locate her correct birth record.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22296-57800-55?cc=1916233…
> >
> > I just want to make sure I am not reading this wrong.
> >
> > Thanks so much for your help.
> >
> > Stacy
> >
Hi Stacy,
My Spanish isn't that good. But, Jose Leal Cantu doesn't appear to have any connection to the family, he appears to be a government official in the birth records department of Coahuila, Torreón
.
Chris
From: Stacy Latocha Newelt
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation Help
Sorry, I am asking about acta numero 1550.
ᐧ
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Stacy Latocha Newelt wrote:
> I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this.
>
> Why would Jose Leal Cantis appear with Guadlupe Flores to present someone
> else's child?
>
> I just learned that my grandmother's US birth certificate was false and I
> am trying to locate her correct birth record.
>
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22296-57800-55?cc=1916233…
>
> I just want to make sure I am not reading this wrong.
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
>
> Stacy
>
For Stacy :
Jose Leal Cantu is the judge ( juez del estado civil) and Guadalupe Vargas is the father of the child.
-----Message d'origine-----
De : general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] De la part de Stacy Latocha Newelt
Envoyé : lunes, 28 de abril de 2014 10:33 p.m.
À : general@nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation Help
Sorry, I am asking about acta numero 1550.
ᐧ
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Stacy Latocha Newelt wrote:
> I was hoping someone could help me make sense of this.
>
> Why would Jose Leal Cantis appear with Guadlupe Flores to present
> someone else's child?
>
> I just learned that my grandmother's US birth certificate was false
> and I am trying to locate her correct birth record.
>
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22296-57800-55?cc=191623
> 3&wc=MFDR-5ZS:1025561601,1025602701
>
> I just want to make sure I am not reading this wrong.
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
>
> Stacy
>
This is how I read this entry:
...con Victoriana Martinez, española de 32 años, natural de la Mesa
del Fraile y vecina de Juanacati[c] diez y seis años ha viuda de
primeras nuncias de D. Pedro Yanos Valdes, cuyo cuerpo esta sepultado
en esta parroquia cinco meses ya.
...with Victoriana Martinez, española (not that she was born in Spain,
but a designation to indicate pureza de sangre and "not Indian or
mixed blood")
of 32 years old, born at Mesa del Fraile (up near Zacatecas, in Mezquitic mcpo)
and neighbor (resident) of Juanactic for 16 years (one of the original
7 haciendas near Totatiche, dating from the 1590's)
widowed of her first church marriage to Don Pedro Yanos Valdes whose
body has been buried in this parish for five months now.
I'm kinda new at reading these old documents, but this is what I got from it.
I'm new to the group, too. Hi!
~Sandra
On 4/30/13, rvr_jr@msn.com wrote:
> My 4th great grandparents' marriage record:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18724-61739-21?cc=1874591&wc…
>
> Juaquin Choperena y Victoriana Martinez were married on 16Sept1801.
> I believe Juaquin was born in Navarra, Spain to Pedro Jose Choperena y Maria
> Bautista Yndart about 1771.
>
> However, I'm having trouble figuring out the birthplace and parents of
> Victoriana.
> Was she born in Spain or Juanacati? Was her father a 16-year old neighbor?
>
> I'd appreciate any help.
> Thanks,
> Roy
Hello Sandra,
The designation of española does not mean pureza de sangre. There were many
people that were labeled español but were of mixed ancestry.
Armando
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Sandra V wrote:
> This is how I read this entry:
>
> ...con Victoriana Martinez, española de 32 años, natural de la Mesa
> del Fraile y vecina de Juanacati[c] diez y seis años ha viuda de
> primeras nuncias de D. Pedro Yanos Valdes, cuyo cuerpo esta sepultado
> en esta parroquia cinco meses ya.
>
> ...with Victoriana Martinez, española (not that she was born in Spain,
> but a designation to indicate pureza de sangre and "not Indian or
> mixed blood")
> of 32 years old, born at Mesa del Fraile (up near Zacatecas, in Mezquitic
> mcpo)
> and neighbor (resident) of Juanactic for 16 years (one of the original
> 7 haciendas near Totatiche, dating from the 1590's)
> widowed of her first church marriage to Don Pedro Yanos Valdes whose
> body has been buried in this parish for five months now.
>
> I'm kinda new at reading these old documents, but this is what I got from
> it.
>
> I'm new to the group, too. Hi!
>
> ~Sandra
>
>
>
Armando, thank you for the clarification. Church records do not necessarily reflect the actual race of the individual being baptized or married.
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Armando
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:30 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation help please....re: Victoriana Martinez
Hello Sandra,
The designation of española does not mean pureza de sangre. There were many people that were labeled español but were of mixed ancestry.
Armando
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Sandra V wrote:
> This is how I read this entry:
>
> ...con Victoriana Martinez, española de 32 años, natural de la Mesa
> del Fraile y vecina de Juanacati[c] diez y seis años ha viuda de
> primeras nuncias de D. Pedro Yanos Valdes, cuyo cuerpo esta sepultado
> en esta parroquia cinco meses ya.
>
> ...with Victoriana Martinez, española (not that she was born in Spain,
> but a designation to indicate pureza de sangre and "not Indian or
> mixed blood") of 32 years old, born at Mesa del Fraile (up near
> Zacatecas, in Mezquitic
> mcpo)
> and neighbor (resident) of Juanactic for 16 years (one of the original
> 7 haciendas near Totatiche, dating from the 1590's) widowed of her
> first church marriage to Don Pedro Yanos Valdes whose body has been
> buried in this parish for five months now.
>
> I'm kinda new at reading these old documents, but this is what I got
> from it.
>
> I'm new to the group, too. Hi!
>
> ~Sandra
>
>
>
I realize that. But my understanding is that the label "español" was
meant or intended to mean that they weren't mixed. Reality of a
given situation notwithstanding, of course :)
On 4/30/13, Armando wrote:
> Hello Sandra,
>
> The designation of española does not mean pureza de sangre. There were many
> people that were labeled español but were of mixed ancestry.
>
> Armando
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Sandra V wrote:
>
>> This is how I read this entry:
>>
>> ...con Victoriana Martinez, española de 32 años, natural de la Mesa
>> del Fraile y vecina de Juanacati[c] diez y seis años ha viuda de
>> primeras nuncias de D. Pedro Yanos Valdes, cuyo cuerpo esta sepultado
>> en esta parroquia cinco meses ya.
>>
>> ...with Victoriana Martinez, española (not that she was born in Spain,
>> but a designation to indicate pureza de sangre and "not Indian or
>> mixed blood")
>> of 32 years old, born at Mesa del Fraile (up near Zacatecas, in Mezquitic
>> mcpo)
>> and neighbor (resident) of Juanactic for 16 years (one of the original
>> 7 haciendas near Totatiche, dating from the 1590's)
>> widowed of her first church marriage to Don Pedro Yanos Valdes whose
>> body has been buried in this parish for five months now.
>>
>> I'm kinda new at reading these old documents, but this is what I got from
>> it.
>>
>> I'm new to the group, too. Hi!
>>
>> ~Sandra
>>
>>
>>
Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.
I am compiling the geneaological data on the lomelini from Italy to the branch that went to spain. It is a lot of material that I am going through and won't be finished until the end of the summer 09 .I will include pictures. I have compiled hidalgo's genealogical tree and traced his 2 lomeli lines. He descends from both lomeli brothers carlos and luis.
R.A.Ricci
Hello R.A.Ricci
I am very interested in the Lomelini branch. May I get some of the
information that you have.
I have information until Carlos Lomelini, may you share the information from
his parents,gp and ggp of Carlos, and if when you finish your research are
you going to make some publication? I would love to get it.
Juan Cristobal Villalobos Lomelin
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de R.A.Ricci
Enviado el: Domingo, 15 de Febrero de 2009 06:05 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] lomelini
I am compiling the geneaological data on the lomelini from Italy to the
branch that went to spain. It is a lot of material that I am going through
and won't be finished until the end of the summer 09 .I will include
pictures. I have compiled hidalgo's genealogical tree and traced his 2
lomeli lines. He descends from both lomeli brothers carlos and luis.
R.A.Ricci
Hello juan Cristobal,
I am sorry that I never finished the book in 2009 like I promised but I have continued to gather information on the Lomellini family. I have posted some of what I have found in another post here in nuestro ranchos. I still have not finished the book but will continue to post bits and pieces online with an eventual book tying everything together.
I would appreciate people from nuestro ranchos sending me your Lomeli lines with written permission to add to our Lomeli book. Even though I am writing this book, it is not my book, it is our book as it is being done with contributions by many people, especially members of nuestro ranchos.
R.A.Ricci
my mom's dna test said that 9% of her dna is from italy/greece.
Most Mexicans that take the Ancestry.com DNA test show to have 6%-15% of their autosomal DNA to be from Italy/Greece. It is not proof of an Italian ancestor for most Mexicans in the past 15 generations. It exists mostly because over the past 50,000 years as people migrated from Eurasia and the Middle East to Iberia they passed through Italy. Many of the SNP markers that ended up in Italy also ended up in Iberia before the Iberians (Spaniards and Portuguese) went to Mexico. Since those autosomal SNP markers are more abundant in Italy than in Iberia they are labeled as being Italian/Greek. Since Italy and Greece has a long history of mixing they have many of the same autosomal SNP markers.
If you upload the raw DNA file to www.Gedmatch.com then go to the Admixture option then choose Eurogenes then choose K36 it a result similar to the Ancestry results will be printed out. Then if you do that for everyone that shows up as a match to your mother you will see that they will also have an amount of Italian close to your mother. If you have other unrelated Mexican friends that are from another part of Mexico do the same you will see that they also have an amount of Italian close to your mother. This means that all Mexicans have those SNP markers. It does not mean it is proof of an ancestor in the past 500 years.
Something else to consider is that if a person has an ancestor that is from a completely different part of the world than the rest of their ancestors those autosomal SNP markers get reduced by 50% every generation. Hypothetically speaking, if all your ancestors in the past 10 generations are European except for one Mexican Indian the child of the Mexican Indian will have 50% Indian DNA (2nd generation). The grandchild 25% (3rd generation). The great-grandchild 12% (4th generation). The great-great-grandchild 6% (5th generation). 3% the 6th generation. 1% the 7th generation. 1/2% 8th generation. The autosomal DNA markers become hard to assign a label of origin once they get down to 2%.
In order for your mother to really have 9% Italian/Greek from an Italian ancestor one of her great-grandparents would have to be 100% Italian or she would have to have a very large number of Italian ancestors in the past 8-10 generations which I really doubt is the case.
It is hard for a lot of people to make sense of all of this because there is no site that explains all of this in detail. Too many people take the results literally and really the only autosomal SNP markers that Mexicans have that are not shared by other ethnic groups are the Native American markers and those are labeled as Mayan, Pima, or Columbian because those were the Native American groups that have been tested. Spaniards have African and Asian autosomal DNA so we also have those markers from them. Spaniards have mostly North European and Mediterranean autosomal SNP markers but so do all of the other European countries because they all have ancestors that traveled from the east to the west over the past 50,000 years and they all mixed with each over that time. That is what makes Europeans very similar. For that very reason your mother most likely also shows to have ancestry from other parts of Europe that don't show up in documentation.
Armando
thanks for explaining that. i'm thinking my momo's 3% mali heirtage maybe came from her ancestors in spain possibly.
is there a way tp figure out what tribes one's native ancestors came from?
ancestry dna tested her for 33% native(odd nubmer huh?)
There is no way to know for sure if the 3% Mali is from your Spanish ancestors or a mulato ancestor. The only thing I can tell you is if your mother's results are a lot or a little different compared to some other people if you run your mother's raw DNA file through a program called DIY Dodecad 2.1 Wrapper at http://www.y-str.org/2013/07/diy-dodecad-21-wrapper.html
No, there is no way to figure out which tribes one's native ancestors came from. The Spanish had native tribes help them in their conquest of Mexico so all of the tribes have mixed over the past 500 years. If they were to ever do published DNA studies of different groups in Mexico, apart from the Mayans, and release the raw DNA then they could probably find autosomal DNA markers that are more common in certain regions. That hasn't been done though, at least that I know of. There have been studies of native groups in Mexico but I don't think the raw DNA files were released.
33% isn't really odd since DNA does something called recombination and it isn't an exact 25% that is inherited by grandchildren from a grandparent. It can be off by 2% give or take and since multiple ancestors would have been mixed with native ancestry then the inherited DNA gets mixed in different amounts by the time it gets to our parents or grandparents. Even those that have 100% españoles in their documented ancestors they have at least 8% native ancestry.
Armando
yeah i don't think either of my mom's parents were pure spanish, and yes sometimes the records weren't always accurate. i've seen plenty of inconstancies in racial classification in records. heck i've seen people get calssified as one thing in a baptism record and labeled something else in a marriage or death record.
sometimes welathy 'mixed' people were considered 'espanol'. for example if the pedro cid who married maria carrillo is the same one who's mentioned in miguel's will, he would have been at least 1/4th native, maybe even half native(if my suspicions about miguel's sister maria cid's dad being a tribe leader of some sort: maybe guachichil,caxcan, or zacatecos).
i did hear though that dna doesn't always pass down evenly (hence why full siblings could get slightly different results), and that you may not inherit genes from all your ancestors.
the reason why i wondered if one could figure out what tribes their ancestors were from dna tests, because my mom and her parents had no clue what tribes their ancestors came from, and when i did research on what tribes lived in the areas they came from, the tribes who lived in the jerez vincinity were the huichol/guachichil/wixariki, zacatecos, and caxcans.
Almost all Mexicans that have more than 4 generations in Mexicans have some native ancestry so you are correct in believing neither of your mother's parents were pure Spanish. It would be foolish to believe they were even without the inconsistencies most of us have seen.
That is correct, DNA does not pass down evenly because of the recombination I mentioned in my previous post. You get 50% of your DNA from your mother but it isn't an exact 50% of her 100% because of recombination. For example, since she was 33% NA you could be 18% or 14% NA. Apart from that the way Ancestry.com, 23andme, and FTDNA do the calculations causes results to be more different between siblings than the way Geno 2.0, Dodecad, and Eurogenes do the primary calculations. The secondary calculation by Geno 2.0 and the Oracle result with Eurogenes can cause the results to be more different between siblings, just like Ancestry.com, 23andme, and FTDNA. This is due to the secondary stage of the calculators trying to assign a person to a specific country when there are many countries that are very similar, even countries outside a specific region. You have to get all of the tests and run all of the calculators to see the differences. I have done that with many people.
To see an example of how we don't inherit some of our ancestors autosomal DNA see the fan chart at http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Genetic… from http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/11/10/qa-everyone-has-two-fam…
The Huicholes/Guachichiles/Wixarikis, Zacatecos, and Caxcanes were conquered by the Spanish and their native allies which were Tlaxcaltecans, Otomíes, and other tribes. Those Tlaxcaltecans and Otomíes left descendants in the towns they conquered and in some locations started their own towns. Many of the tribes were also relocated and that caused them to mix with other tribes. That didn't just happen in Jerez, it happened all over Nueva Galicia. John Schmal wrote a great article on the tribes at http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/jalisco_indig.html and the Spanish page about Lagos de Moreno has some extra information such as "La parte central de este territorio estaba ocupada por las familias de guerreros natos los cuachichiles [Guachichiles], al sur colindaban con el pueblo de san juan de Mazatitlán (hoy San Juan de los Lagos) pueblo de cazcanes [Caxcanes]fundado ca. 1543, con indios que fueron reubicados de los cañones de Juchipila, tras la Guerra del Mixtón de 1541." http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos_de_Moreno
If we don't know which autosomal SNP markers the Tlaxcaltecans, Otomíes, and other native allies of the Spanish had and we don't know which autosomal SNP markers Huicholes/Guachichiles/Wixarikis, Zacatecos, and Caxcanes had there is no way to determine which autosomal DNA markers we have inherited. We only know which autosomal markers Mayans, Pima, Colombian natives, and a few other tribes had due to studies that have been done on them and their autosomal SNP markers were released for use by the DNA testing companies. That 33% Native American that your mother shows to have are markers shared by those Native Americans tribes they have studies on.
By the way, most of us have no idea which specific Indian tribes we descend from. Your mother isn't the only one that doesn't know. What we can say is we are descended from various tribes, some at a higher percentage and we might not ever know which ones and at what amount. A lot of information was lost with the conquest.
Armando
Rose,
I have a Carlos Lomelin born about 1584 in Genova, Genova, Italy and married to a Maria Benavides in about 1609, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. They had one daughter named Juana Lomelin who married Francisco Gutierrez Rubio about 1651, in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. Francisco was born about 1610 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco.
Maria Elena Gutierrez-Uhlenburg (Sacramento, CA)
fuccifeet@sbcglobal.net
Rose Hardy wrote:
Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.
The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early 1800's.
Thanks
Rose
Fresno, CA
Maria
I am related through Carlos' and Maria Benavides son, Domingo and his son
Nicolas:
Lomelin, Nicolas
The son of Domingo Lomelin and Juana de Mendoza. He was baptized 27 July
1656 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. He married Juana de Alba, the daughter of
Marcos de Pedrosa and Maria de Nava on 5 February 1682 in Santa Maria de los
Lagos, Jalisco. He died 18 November 1693 in Santa Maria de los Lagos,
Jalisco.
Lomelin, Matiana
The daughter of Nicolas Lomelin and Juana de Alba (Pedrosa). She was
baptized 30 October 1683 in Santa Maria de los Lagos, Jalisco. She married
Joseph Romo de Vivar, the son of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Ruiz de
Esparza on 15 February 1699 in Santa Maria de los Lagos, Jalisco.
This is my relation:
Carlos Lomelin>Domingo Lomelin>Nicolas Lomelin>Mathiana de Lomellin>Maria
Basilia Romo>Joseph Manuel Gonzales De Hermosillo>Thadeo Xaimes
(Jaymes)>Joaquin Jayme>Maria de la Cruz Jayme>Maria Antonia Ortiz> Francisca
Pisana>Maria Nieves Munis>Romanita Rodriquez Ramos>Antonio Ramon
Gonzales>Anthony Richard Gonzales>Rosanne Gonzales
I am related to the Romo de Vivar family 3 times and so far the Gonzales de
Hermosillos's twice.
Rose
Fresno, CA
Rose,
Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book, Los Duran de Nochistlan.
" Tambien hubo en Nochistlán, sangre Genovesa, como la de los Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atrás hemos hablado-y la de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, español de los Reinos de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de Génova, y fue estanciero próspero en Mexticacán. Establecido alli por 1624, casó con doña Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco vástagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana, Domingo y Maria.
Juana casó en Nochistlán el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pasó a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capitán Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y de Doña Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de Nochistlan.
Domingo unió su vida a la de doña Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de Manuel Gómez y de doña Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendió generosamente el apellido en la región.
Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides casó con el criollo de la ciudad de Mejico, Don Nicolas Pérez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana, que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, casó, casi niña, con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de doña Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alteño de los Gallagas, rama materna del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.
End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
Alicia
San Jose, Ca
Rose Hardy wrote:
Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.
The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early 1800's.
Thanks
Rose
Fresno, CA
Hi Rose,
I too descend from Carlos Lomellini through two of Juana Lomelin's
daughters. I also descend from Magdalena de Lavezares and have the same
interest you do in learning about Italians in Mexico. I have found
references to these lines in Mariano Gonzalez-Leal's book "Retoños de España
en la Nueva Galicia" Tomo II. There are also chapters In Jose Luis
Vazquez's book on Genealogia de Nochistlan that trace the Lomellini's and
the Lavezares descendancy.
I would be happy to exchange data with you. Please e-mail me directly.
Maria Cortez
Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <20060715170039.42643.qmail@web81614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Rose,
>
> Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book,
> Los Duran de Nochistlan.
>
> " Tambien hubo en Nochistl?n, sangre Genovesa, como la de los
> Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atr?s hemos hablado-y la
> de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en
> la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, espa?ol de los Reinos
> de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de G?nova, y fue
> estanciero pr?spero en Mexticac?n. Establecido alli por 1624, cas? con do?a
> Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese
> apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco v?stagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana,
> Domingo y Maria.
>
> Juana cas? en Nochistl?n el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de
> Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pas? a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don
> Francisco Guti?rrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capit?n Francisco Guti?rrez
> Rubio y de Do?a Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los
> linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de
> Nochistlan.
>
> Domingo uni? su vida a la de do?a Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de
> Manuel G?mez y de do?a Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos
> hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendi?
> generosamente el apellido en la regi?n.
>
> Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides cas? con el criollo de la ciudad de
> Mejico, Don Nicolas P?rez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana,
> que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, cas?, casi ni?a,
> con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de do?a
> Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alte?o de los Gallagas, rama materna
> del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.
>
> End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but
> since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract
> specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
>
> Alicia
> San Jose, Ca
>
> Rose Hardy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding
> Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's?
> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian
> ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big
> zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al
> Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in
> there as well.
>
> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600,
> children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around
> Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early
> 1800's.
>
> Thanks
> Rose
> Fresno, CA
Hi Maria
I have Jose Luis' book also and am looking for the information linking Italy
to Mexico. I did find an Italian Mexican website a few weeks ago. But I'm
looking for older data.
Rose
Maria, I been stuck on my mother's Lomeli line. I can trace back to 1849 Mexticacan. This is when Jacinto de Lomeli married Maria Onofre Gomez.
I'd love to see your gedcom on the website, so I may search for missing links.
My gedcom is online.
Enrique Legaspi Frias
Maria Cortez wrote:
Hi Rose,
I too descend from Carlos Lomellini through two of Juana Lomelin's
daughters. I also descend from Magdalena de Lavezares and have the same
interest you do in learning about Italians in Mexico. I have found
references to these lines in Mariano Gonzalez-Leal's book "Retoños de España
en la Nueva Galicia" Tomo II. There are also chapters In Jose Luis
Vazquez's book on Genealogia de Nochistlan that trace the Lomellini's and
the Lavezares descendancy.
I would be happy to exchange data with you. Please e-mail me directly.
Maria Cortez
Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <20060715170039.42643.qmail@web81614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Rose,
>
> Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book,
> Los Duran de Nochistlan.
>
> " Tambien hubo en Nochistl?n, sangre Genovesa, como la de los
> Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atr?s hemos hablado-y la
> de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en
> la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, espa?ol de los Reinos
> de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de G?nova, y fue
> estanciero pr?spero en Mexticac?n. Establecido alli por 1624, cas? con do?a
> Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese
> apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco v?stagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana,
> Domingo y Maria.
>
> Juana cas? en Nochistl?n el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de
> Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pas? a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don
> Francisco Guti?rrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capit?n Francisco Guti?rrez
> Rubio y de Do?a Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los
> linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de
> Nochistlan.
>
> Domingo uni? su vida a la de do?a Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de
> Manuel G?mez y de do?a Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos
> hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendi?
> generosamente el apellido en la regi?n.
>
> Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides cas? con el criollo de la ciudad de
> Mejico, Don Nicolas P?rez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana,
> que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, cas?, casi ni?a,
> con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de do?a
> Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alte?o de los Gallagas, rama materna
> del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.
>
> End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but
> since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract
> specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
>
> Alicia
> San Jose, Ca
>
> Rose Hardy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding
> Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's?
> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian
> ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big
> zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al
> Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in
> there as well.
>
> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600,
> children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around
> Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early
> 1800's.
>
> Thanks
> Rose
> Fresno, CA
Rose,
I have done the same thing you have--looked at the AER for a ship passenger
record and found nothing. I concluded that my ancestors must have sailed
out of the Porto di Genova which was one of the major ports in medieval
times. I have not been able to find out if any records exist for that
port. I did find this website on Italians all over Latinamerica. It is
excellent and contains a lot of information. Here is the link:
http://www.apellidositalianos.com.ar/ According to the website the ship
departure records for the Porto di Genova were destroyed during the second
world war, but some archives are still available. They list this address:
*Autorita Portuale di
Genova
*
Porto di Genova - Archivo Storico
via della Mercanzia 2
16123 Genova
Tel. 39-010-2412330 / 2412319
Fax: 39-010-241 2397
info@porto.genova.it
Si bien los registros de salidas de pasajeros desde el puerto de Génova
fueron destruidos en la segunda guerra, aun conservan algunos archivos.
En el Palacio San Giorgio se encuentra el Archivo
Históricoy
el Archivo
FotográficoAllí
conservan documentación histórica desde 1870 a 1945. Está abierto
todos
los dias de 9 a 17 hs.
Teléfonos: 010 - 241.2625 y 010 - 241.2714
Otra posibilidad es comunicarse con el:
Autorita Portuale di
Napoli
Secretario General
*Dr. Pietro Capogreco*
Tel.: 39-081 - 206485
Fax: 39-081 - 206888
E-mail: p.capogreco@porto.napoli.it
If I find anything more I'll share it with the group.
Maria
>> Rose Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records
>> regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's
>> to early 1800's?
>> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
>> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my
>> Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up
>> with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana
>> y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez
>> Martinez and nothing in there as well.
>>
>> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about
>> 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and
>> Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the
>> late 1700's to early 1800's.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rose
>> Fresno, CA
Maria:
I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).
Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.
Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33
Maria:
I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).
Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.
Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33
Maria:
I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).
Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.
Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33
Enter "LOMELIN" in the first search field and then add another search field and enter "PASAJERO" These are just the listings for passengers to Mexico. There are many more mostly to Cartagena de Indias (Colombia).
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.5,E.3166
Título BRIGIDA LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido BRIGIDA LOMELIN, natural de Tudela, hija de Juan Martínez y de Catalina Lomelin, a Nueva España, como criada de don Antonio Velázquez de Bazán.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1571-07-06
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.5,E.3166
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.11,E.353
Título LICENCIADO PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido LICENCIADO PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN, Racionero de la Catedral de México, a Nueva España. Información y licencia en CONTRATACION,5395,N.59
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1626-07-06
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.11,E.353
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16404.42.3.188//CONTRATACION,5395,N.59
Título PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias del licenciado Pedro de Barrientos Lomelín, racionero de la catedral de México, con sus criados Juan de la Cruz y Pedro Rodríguez, éste natural y vecino de Sevilla, hijo de Antonio Rodríguez y de Mariana Cid, a Nueva España. Fecha de la licencia
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Compuesta
Fecha(s) [f] 1626-07-03
Signatura(s) CONTRATACION,5395,N.59
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.4,E.1726
Título JOSE LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido JOSE LOMELIN, natural de Génova, vecino de México, hijo de Domingo Lomelín y de Margarita, a Nueva España, de donde es vecino.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1562-01-26
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.4,E.1726
Could anyone recommend an online site where I could house my tree with images and invite family to view? Also any software to organize?
I use Geneanet.org. The free version is pretty powerful and easy to use, you can upload/download your full gedcom files, it creates very useful lists, charts, maps, privacy is completely customizable, and my favorite part is the custom graphic trees (some are beautiful!). The site works in many different languages at the selection from a drop-down box. You get alerts for matches among other geneanet trees and even for connections in other databases. The site is developed/managed in France and so is all originally in French, but again, use the drop-down selection to choose English, Spanish, etc, 10 languages in all. I like using it very much, check it out and see if it'll suit your needs.
Sandra Velez
ancestry.com is excellent. It's free and you can make it private if you want to, I let's you invite family/friends and upload photos, create stories, videos, and add citations such as baptisms, marriages, deaths.
Jose Carlos de Leon
FamilyTreeDNA is having a 20% off sale of the 37 marker Y-DNA test until
Tuesday April 29, 2014.
>
> I've been looking for the marriage of Francisco Medina and Francisca
> Bernales on family search since I joined a few months ago.
>
> Thank you Christopher. This is wonderful :-)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 06:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: IChristopher
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Information on Francisca Bernales
> Message-ID:
> <1398085992.70777.YahooMailNeo@web120505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Mia
>
> Francisco Xavier de Medina married Francisca Bernales in
> Aguascalientes on 11 Jun 1732. According to the marriage document he is
> the son
> of Francisco de Medina and Do?a Antonia Laredo de Sotomayor:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11605-22954-49?cc=1502404&…
> ?
> Francisco de Medina married Do?a Antonia Laredo de Sotomayor
> in Aguascalientes on 20 Jan 1702. According to the marriage record,
> Francisco
> de Medina is the son of Cristobal de Medina and Maria de Avila. Do?a
> Antonia
> Laredo de Sotomayor is the daughter of Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor
> and Do?a
> Juana de Laris:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11671-66481-86?cc=1502404&…
> ?
> Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor married Do?a Juana de Laris in
> Aguascalientes on 14 Nov 1667. They seemed to travel between San Luis
> Potosi and Aguascalientes since some children were baptized in
> Aguascalientes and some in San Luis Potosi, including Do?a Antonia Laredo
> de Sotomayor who is listed as being from San Luis Potosi on her marriage
> record. But, both Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor and Do?a Juana de Laris,
> also listed as Do?a Juana de Laris y Otalora, died in Aguascalientes.?
> Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor was buried in Aguascalientes on 17 Sep
> 1697 and Do?a Juana de Laris y Otalora was buried in Aguascalientes on 12
> Aug 1695. A year after his wife died and a year before he died, Captain
> Juan Laredo de Sotomayor married a second time to Maria Mu?oz de Tiscare?o,
> the daughter of Andres Mu?oz de Nava and Luisa de Tiscare?o on 24 May 1696.
> I?m not sure who the parents are of Do?a Juana de Laris y Otalora or
> Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor, since I
> don?t have a dispensa and the Nov 1667 informacion matrimonial seems to
> be missing.?
> ?
> Back to Francisca Bernales, the wife of Francisco Xavier de Medina.
> According to the marriage record, Francisca Bernales, aka
> FranciscamBernales Delgado, aka Francisca Vernal is the daughter of Juan de
> Dios Bernal, aka Juan de Dios Sanchez and Ildefonsa Delgado, aka Aldonza
> Delgado:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11605-22954-49?cc=1502404&…
> ?
> Juan de Dios Bernal and Ildefonsa Delgado were married in Aguascalientes
> on 15 Dec 1698. The informacion matrimonial shows that Juan de Dios Bernal
> was the son of Pedro Bernal and Francisca Marmolejo. ?Ildefonsa Delgado,
> baptized 11 Oct 1680, was the daughter of Luis Delgado and Teresa Lopez de
> Elizalde:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30466-38?cc=1502404
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11671-60802-23?cc=1502404&…
> ?
> Luis Delgado married Teresa Lopez de Elizalde in Aguascalientes on 4 Mar
> 1669:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30269-31?cc=1410092
> ?
> Teresa Lopez de Elizalde is the daughter of Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde and
> Regina de Alvarado. ?Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde is the son of Juan Lopez de
> Elizalde y Aberruza and Leonor
> Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza.
> ?
> Luis Delgado is the son of Joseph Delgado and Francisca de Gabay. Joseph
> Delgado married Francisca de Gabay in Aguascalientes on 30 Aug 1644. Joseph
> Delgado is the son of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz. Francisca de
> Gabay, baptized 24 Mar 1625 is the daughter of Luis Tiscare?o de Molina and
> Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.
> ?
> Luis Tiscare?o de Molina married Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza 16 May 1623. Luis
> Tiscare?o de Molina is the son of Juan Tiscare?o de Molina and Elvira
> Marquez. Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza is the daughter of Lope Ruiz de
> Esparza and Ana Francisca de Gabay. Lope Ruiz de Esparza is the son of Lope
> Ruiz de Esparza and Maria Diez de Eguinoa. Ana Francisca de Gabay is the
> daughter of Martin Navarro de Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma.
> ?
> Christopher de Cuellar
>
> From: Mia Montemayor
> To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org" <
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:54 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Information on Francisca Bernales
>
>
> >
> > I've been looking for the marriage o
Thank you Christopher for your very comprehensive response regarding Francisca Bernales. Since our paths seem to cross in so many places I was drawn to the 4 March, 1669 marriage of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez Elisalde
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30269-31?cc=1410092
Just below that marriage is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Margarita Lopez de Elisalde; I presume they are all siblings: Two brothers marrying two sisters.
In trying to keep everyone, especially with similar names, in order I discovered that Margarita Lopez de Elisalde was also mentioned in a Dispensa dated 23 Feb. 1734 in which Nicolas Lopez de Lisalde, Martin Ruis de Esparsa, and Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa (Children of Lope Ruis de Esparsa and Francisca Gabai) are all named as siblings.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-38083-82?cc=1874591&wc…
Also, if this is the same Nicolas married to Regina Alvarado who also was married to Juana Ruiz at the time of his death on 22 November, 1637 ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-147757-54?cc=1502404…
Thank you for your clarification
Deedra Corona
Hi Deedra,
Your right, Luis Delgado and Juan Delgado were both sons of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabay and Teresa Lopez de Elizalde and Margarita Lopez de Elizalde were both daughters of Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde and Regina de Alvarado. Both brothers married both sisters on the same day, 4 Mar 1669. Diego Delgado, another son of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabay, married Nicolasa Lopez de Elizalde, another daughter of Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde and Regina de Alvarado on 13 Apr 1678:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11771-154799-47?cc=1410092…
The Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde that was married to Regina de Alvarado, was only married to her that I know of. I do know of at least three other relatives named Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde's though. One I know was married to a Sebastiana Perez and one I think was married to a Catalina Flores and I can't remember who the other one was married to. But, I don't think any were married to Juana Ruiz.
About the dispensa, I couldn't say, because I'm not familiar with that dispensa. But, I'm not aware of any Lopez de Elizalde ancestors of Lope Ruiz de Esparza or of Ana Francisca Gabay, so I don't think they would have a child surnamed Lopez de Elizalde. I think that might not be accurate.
Chris
From: "zapvive1@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Lopez Lisalde
Thank you Christopher for your very comprehensive response regarding Francisca Bernales. Since our paths seem to cross in so many places I was drawn to the 4 March, 1669 marriage of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez Elisalde
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30269-31?cc=1410092
Just below that marriage is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Margarita Lopez de Elisalde; I presume they are all siblings: Two brothers marrying two sisters.
In trying to keep everyone, especially with similar names, in order I discovered that Margarita Lopez de Elisalde was also mentioned in a Dispensa dated 23 Feb. 1734 in which Nicolas Lopez de Lisalde, Martin Ruis de Esparsa, and Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa (Children of Lope Ruis de Esparsa and Francisca Gabai) are all named as siblings. Also, if this is the same Nicolas married to Regina Alvarado who also was married to Juana Ruiz at the time of his death on 22 November, 1637 ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-147757-54?cc=1502404…
Thank you for your clarification
Deedra Corona
>
> Deedra,
>
Do you by chance have the link to the Dispensa dated 23 Feb 1734 you
mention below? I am also researching Juan Delgado and Margarita Lopez de
Elisalde. Thank you.
Maria Cortez
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: zapvive1@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Lopez Lisalde
>
>
> Thank you Christopher for your very comprehensive response regarding
> Francisca Bernales. Since our paths seem to cross in so many places I was
> drawn to the 4 March, 1669 marriage of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez
> Elisalde
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30269-31?cc=1410092
>
> Just below that marriage is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Margarita
> Lopez de Elisalde; I presume they are all siblings: Two brothers marrying
> two sisters.
>
> In trying to keep everyone, especially with similar names, in order I
> discovered that Margarita Lopez de Elisalde was also mentioned in a
> Dispensa dated 23 Feb. 1734 in which Nicolas Lopez de Lisalde, Martin Ruis
> de Esparsa, and Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa (Children of Lope Ruis de Esparsa
> and Francisca Gabai) are all named as siblings. Also, if this is the same
> Nicolas married to Regina Alvarado who also was married to Juana Ruiz at
> the time of his death on 22 November, 1637 ?
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-147757-54?cc=1502404…
>
> Thank you for your clarification
> Deedra Corona
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
Hi Mia
Francisco Xavier de Medina married Francisca Bernales in
Aguascalientes on 11 Jun 1732. According to the marriage document he is the son
of Francisco de Medina and Doña Antonia Laredo de Sotomayor:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11605-22954-49?cc=1502404&…
Francisco de Medina married Doña Antonia Laredo de Sotomayor
in Aguascalientes on 20 Jan 1702. According to the marriage record, Francisco
de Medina is the son of Cristobal de Medina and Maria de Avila. Doña Antonia
Laredo de Sotomayor is the daughter of Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor and Doña
Juana de Laris:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11671-66481-86?cc=1502404&…
Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor married Doña Juana de Laris
in Aguascalientes on 14 Nov 1667. They seemed to travel between San Luis Potosi
and Aguascalientes since some children were baptized in Aguascalientes and some
in San Luis Potosi, including Doña Antonia Laredo de Sotomayor who is listed as
being from San Luis Potosi on her marriage record. But, both Captain Juan
Laredo de Sotomayor and Doña Juana de Laris, also listed as Doña Juana de Laris
y Otalora, died in Aguascalientes. Captain
Juan Laredo de Sotomayor was buried in Aguascalientes on 17 Sep 1697 and Doña
Juana de Laris y Otalora was buried in Aguascalientes on 12 Aug 1695. A year
after his wife died and a year before he died, Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor
married a second time to Maria Muñoz de Tiscareño, the daughter of Andres Muñoz
de Nava and Luisa de Tiscareño on 24 May 1696. I’m not sure who the parents are
of Doña Juana de Laris y Otalora or Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor, since I
don’t have a dispensa and the Nov 1667 informacion matrimonial seems to be
missing.
Back to Francisca Bernales, the wife of Francisco Xavier de
Medina. According to the marriage record, Francisca Bernales, aka Francisca
Bernales Delgado, aka Francisca Vernal is the daughter of Juan de Dios Bernal,
aka Juan de Dios Sanchez and Ildefonsa Delgado, aka Aldonza Delgado:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11605-22954-49?cc=1502404&…
Juan de Dios Bernal and Ildefonsa Delgado were married in
Aguascalientes on 15 Dec 1698. The informacion matrimonial shows that Juan de
Dios Bernal was the son of Pedro Bernal and Francisca Marmolejo. Ildefonsa Delgado, baptized 11 Oct 1680, was
the daughter of Luis Delgado and Teresa Lopez de Elizalde:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30466-38?cc=1502404
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11671-60802-23?cc=1502404&…
Luis Delgado married Teresa Lopez de Elizalde in
Aguascalientes on 4 Mar 1669:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30269-31?cc=1410092
Teresa Lopez de Elizalde is the daughter of Nicolas Lopez de
Elizalde and Regina de Alvarado. Nicolas
Lopez de Elizalde is the son of Juan Lopez de Elizalde y Aberruza and Leonor
Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza.
Luis Delgado is the son of Joseph Delgado and Francisca de Gabay.
Joseph Delgado married Francisca de Gabay in Aguascalientes on 30 Aug 1644.
Joseph Delgado is the son of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz. Francisca de Gabay,
baptized 24 Mar 1625 is the daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza
Ruiz de Esparza.
Luis Tiscareño de Molina married Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza 16
May 1623. Luis Tiscareño de Molina is the son of Juan Tiscareño de Molina and
Elvira Marquez. Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza is the daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza
and Ana Francisca de Gabay. Lope Ruiz de Esparza is the son of Lope Ruiz de
Esparza and Maria Diez de Eguinoa. Ana Francisca de Gabay is the daughter of
Martin Navarro de Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma.
Christopher de Cuellar
From: Mia Montemayor
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Information on Francisca Bernales
>
> I've been looking for the marriage of Francisco Medina and Francisca
> Bernales on family search since I joined a few months ago. They are the
> parents of Guadalupe Medina born in Aguascalientes in 1747. Is there
> someone in the Nuestros Ranchos forum that has information on them? - Mia
I am new to genealogy and one of the lines I am most interested in is my maternal Lomeli line, which is also proving to be the most difficult.
Tecomatlán es un rancho que está situado en la parroquia de ZAPOTLANEJO, pero también aparece en los registros de Tototlán, Poncitlán, y hasta a veces Tepatitlán u Ocotlán. Está entre Zapo, Tepa, Ponci y Toto, y por eso a veces aparece en los archivos de los cuatro pueblos. Tototlán es una tragedia genealógica porque como ya sabes, hubo una pérdida total de muchísimos archivos parroquiales, cosa que casi imposibilita la investigación genealógica.
En Zapotlanejo existieron diversas ramas de la familia Lomelín, y seguido aparecen en los archivos parroquiales de Zapo. Estos Lomelines vinieron de las ramas originarias de Nochistlán/Mexticacán, y por tal son descendientes de Carlos de Lomelín (Carlo Lomellini). Luego se asentaron en LOS MORALES, entre Ocotlán y Tototlán. Ya después, en las próximas generaciones se trasladaron a Tecomatlán y otros puestos cercanos.
Busca en ZAPOTLANEJO. Antes de los 1830, los matrimonios no están indexados pero algunos bautismos sí. Tendrás que buscar las actas una por una.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Tecomatlán es un rancho que ESTABA situado en la parroquia de ZAPOTLANEJO, pero también aparece en los archivos de Tototlán, Poncitlán, y hasta a veces Tepatitlán u Ocotlán. Yo he investigado en Zapotlanejo las familias Alvarez, Nuño, Regalado, Vásquez, Arámburu/Arámbulo, Benavides, García, vecinos de Tecomatlán, Las Carboneras, Los Corralillos, Santa Fé y la Cañada de los Alvarez
Hace 200 años Tecomatlán aparece en los registros parroquiales de Zapotlanejo, pero hoy en día es oficialmente parte del municipio de Tepatitlán de Morelos. Abran los enlaces de los mapas siguientes, y busquen donde se juntan los municipios de Tototlán, Zapotlanejo y Tepatitlán. Ahí está Tecomatlán.
http://sieg.gob.mx/contenido/GeografiaMedioAmbiente/ZAPOTLANEJO_CARTA.p…
http://sieg.gob.mx/contenido/GeografiaMedioAmbiente/TEPATITLANMORELOS_C…
http://sieg.gob.mx/contenido/GeografiaMedioAmbiente/TOTOTLAN_CARTA.pdf
Espero que esta información les ayude en algo.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
I don't know where Tecomatlan Jalisco is but the Lomelin that married the Enriquez family that lived in San Juan de Los Lagos and San Miguel el Alto also used the De La Cruz surname. The vast majority of the Lomeli from Jalisco descend from Carlo Lomelin.
R.A.Ricci
I was reviewing a 12 Feb 2006 posting regarding Santos Luna's question of the whereabouts of Rancho del Muerto. I did not read it then and apologize for this late response. I ran across what I believe is probably the same rancho referred to as simply "el Muerto" in the margin of a Tepechitlan baptismal manuscript dated 11 Aug 1776. That year Josepha Dominga Luna Miramontes was baptized. The parents were Antonio Miramontes and Victoria de Luna.
Harry Mercado
I too descend from this lively place, wherever it is.
The baptismal record of my 3rd ggrandmother, Maria Guadelupe Luna on 21 Sept, 1762 in Tepechitlan notes that the parents, Calletano de Luna and Barbara de Hererra were residents of this Rancho. Her father's name is variously listed phonetically as Cayetano or Caetano.
Mr. Mercado,
I too descend from the Luna's from rancho Del Muerto, Calletano De Luna is my 5th great-grand uncle, his brother Aparicio De Luna and his wife Melchora De Los Reyes Marin are my 5th Great-grand parents.
Anna Arellano Luna
California
On Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:42 PM, "mercado@riverfast.net" wrote:
Harry Mercado
I too descend from this lively place, wherever it is.
The baptismal record of my 3rd ggrandmother, Maria Guadelupe Luna on 21 Sept, 1762 in Tepechitlan notes that the parents, Calletano de Luna and Barbara de Hererra were residents of this Rancho. Her father's name is variously listed phonetically as Cayetano or Caetano.
Gus, Thank you for this great information, and for taking the time to share your research. No need to apologize for a late response, this is all valuable information for me. Also, I have several branches of Miramontes. I shall check it out.
Gracias, /hs
gusmeza wrote: To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: gusmeza
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho del Muerto-12 Feb 2006 Posting Revisited
I was reviewing a 12 Feb 2006 posting regarding Santos Luna's question of the whereabouts of Rancho del Muerto. I did not read it then and apologize for this late response. I ran across what I believe is probably the same rancho referred to as simply "el Muerto" in the margin of a Tepechitlan baptismal manuscript dated 11 Aug 1776. That year Josepha Dominga Luna Miramontes was baptized. The parents were Antonio Miramontes and Victoria de Luna.
I can't answer the question of where this rancho is located but the reason I researched this name may be of interest to Santos since he is a Luna and may be related to Victoria. Years ago I ran across the Miramontes name in Monterey County historical accounts in a city library in Salinas, California. This Miramontes family came to Monterey, California in the late 1700's in a vessel named the "Concepcion" that sailed from San Blas, Nayarit. The passenger list named Josef Vicente Moxica and wife Victoria de Luna with Miramontes children named Jose Maximo, Jose Candelario, Maria Josefa, Maria Eustaquia and Polonia. Jose Candelario Miramontes figured in San Francisco city's early history and eventually was granted land in what is now Half Moon Bay. His father Antonio Miramontes does not appear in the passenger list but is listed as Victoria's husband in their descendant's family history geneology . A relative of this family contacted me some time back and told me she was
a widow
when she arrived and had remarried.
This information spurred me to see if this family tied into my own. I have not found a direct connection however I did find that Antonio Miramontes and Victoria de Luna had given birth to Josepha in "el Muerto" and as mentioned previously she was baptized in Tepechitlan. Candelario was baptized 22 Feb 1785 in Santa Maria de Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Josef Maximo was baptized 17 Feb 1780 and Joseph Gregorio was also baptized in 20 March 1779 in Santa Maria de Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio.
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
I am researching Ybarra's of early 1800's in Zacatecas. Patricio Ybarra is my 5th Great Grandfather/Maternal.
Thank you.
David Serna I have about 20 in my database all from the Calvillo, Ags Area.
Where is your family from ?
The entry link is
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11584-154224-66?cc=1502404…
David Serna . I have also found a great mix of Espanol an Yndios in the Frausto line in the Calvillo, Ags area. Dna results show 30% Native American heritage for my father. Being Decended from a Fausto from Calvillo, Ags. & Tabasco, Zac. I am waiting to confirm that heritage.
I think the groom, Jose Antonio Frausto, was the widower of Maria Paulina Martinez. Usually when a widow/er remarried, they mentioned the name of the late husband/wife, many times not even mentioning the parents.
No idea why he was also known as Roque, maybe he was baptised as José Antonio Roque and some people knew him as José Antonio and others as Roque, but that's just a guess.
I think re¿¿¿¿ reads "renzivido", perhaps recibido in modern Spanish, accepted in English.
According to the RAE dictionary, recibir means among other things: "Dicho de una persona: Admitir a otra en su compañía o comunidad."
I think it says difuntos, so both Esteban Frausto and Juana Maria were deceased.
As for Maria Micaela del Sacramento, I've seen some books from Coahuila in which as you go farther back in time, many indians start being recorded just with given names and no surnames at all. I think del Sacramento is a given name, like Juana Maria. Nevertheless, there are some examples in which children didn't bear the surnames of the parents, but of some grandmother, but I think I've only seen that in families from the 1500's and 1600's.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
David,
I descend from the Frausto. I have found originally it was espanol, but due to the mixture they went from mestizo, etc. They populated heavily in Huejucar (Calvillo) and the surrounding reagions. Please feel free to email me.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Antonio Frausto is the widow of Paulina Martínez, who was buried two years earlier. This is the common format for this kind of record.
I believe the place name is "Río de Ajojúcar", (accents added) which I think is just east of Villa Hidalgo in Teocaltiche. There was an hacienda Ajojúcar in the same vicinity, and Guia Roji has a modern day village of San Ajojúcar.
As for the alias ... names changed for so many reasons it may be fruitless to even guess.
Stuart Armstrong
Does anyone have any information on the Porras family from Michoacán (la piedad de cabadas)/Guanajuato/Jalisco (Degollado). It has been super difficult tracking this side of my family.
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 9:37 PM
Subject: NGGS meeting reminder
Hello everyone,
Just a gentle reminder that our meeting is coming up this Saturday the 26th of April
Hola compañeros, yo desciendo de Juan Díaz de León y Juana Trujillo, quienes debieron casar aprox. en 1669 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco.
Juan Diaz de Leon
Primera generación
1. Juan Diaz de Leon nació en 1591 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico.
Juan se casó con Francisca de Ortega. Francisca nació en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
2 M i. Pedro Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació aproximadamente en 1618.
+ 3 M ii. Juan Diaz de Leon nació aproximadamente en 1620.
4 F iii. Maria Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació estimado 1620.
Maria se casó con Hedrnan Perez de Moxica.
+ 5 F iv. Antonia Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació estimado 1619.
6 M v. Luis Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació estimado 1621.
7 M vi. Antonio Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació el 26 Mayo 1621 en Pinos.
8 M vii. Joseph Diaz de Leon y Ortega nació el 13 Junio 1630 en Pinos.
Segunda generación
3. Juan Diaz de Leon (Juan) nació aproximadamente en 1620.
Juan se casó (1) Juana Trujillo y Tavera.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
+ 9 M i. Nicolas Diaz de Leon y Trujillo.
10 M ii. Juan Diaz de Leon y Trujillo.
Juan se casó con Lorenza de Loza, hija de Alejo de Loza y Maria o Ledesma Gonzalez, el 12 Septiembre 1707. Lorenza nació aproximadamente en 1691.
11 F iii. Margarita Diaz de Leon y Trujillo.
Margarita se casó con Marcelo de Loza y de la Barrera, hijo de Nicolas de Loza y de los Angeles y Antonia o Estrada Barrera de la Barrera y Venegas, el 27 Febrero 1712 en Tepatitlan.
12 F iv. Antonia Diaz de Leon y Trujillo.
Juan también se casó (2) Jacinta Sotomayor o de las Ruelas, hija de Andrés Martin Camacho o de Sotomayor y Maria o de Ruelas Gonzalez de Islas y Moctezuma, el 8 Agosto 1648 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico. Jacinta nació aproximadamente en 1620 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
+ 13 M v. Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor.
14 M vi. Juan Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor nació en Sierra de PinosAguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Juan se casó con Josefa Garcia, hija de Jose Garcia de Leon y Vargas y Antonia de
Nava, el 8 Abril 1674 en Sierra de Pinos.
15 M vii. Antonio Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor nació en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico.
16 M viii. Andres Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor nació en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico.
17 F ix. Maria Marquez de los Olivos nació en Monte de Esobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico.
5. Antonia Diaz de Leon y Ortega (Juan) nació estimado 1619.
Antonia se casó con Nicolas Loza y Montoya, hijo de Bernabe de Loza y Gertudis Montoya, aproximadamente en 1695 en Aguascaleitnes. Nicolas nació aproximadamente en 1670. Él murió antes 1734.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
18 M i. Cayetano Loza y Diaz de Leon tuvo su bautismo infantil el 19 Marzo 1631.
19 F ii. Josepha Loza y Diaz de Leon tuvo su bautismo infantil el 19 Marzo 1631.
Tercera generación
9. Nicolas Diaz de Leon y Trujillo (Juan, Juan).
Nicolas se casó con Rosa Maria o de lo Angeles de Loza, hija de Antonio de Loza y Catalina de Los Angeles. Rosa nació en 1672 en Jalos.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
+ 20 F i. Juana Diaz de Leon y Loza.
13. Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor (Juan, Juan).
Jacinto se casó con Sebastiana Gil de la Mancha. Sebastiana nació aproximadamente en 1655.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
21 M i. Andres Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 1 Febrero 1686 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 1 Febrero 1686 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
22 M ii. Miguel Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 23 Noviembre 1687 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 23 Noviembre 1687 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
23 M iii. Tomas Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 10 Enero 1689 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 10 Enero 1689 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
24 F iv. Ana Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 14 Junio 1692 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 14 Junio 1692 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
25 M v. Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 19 Marzo 1694 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 19 Marzo 1694 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
26 F vi. Jacinta Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 23 Marzo 1676 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 23 Marzo 1676 en Sagrario, Aguascalientes.
27 M vii. Nicolas Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 23 Mayo 1677 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 23 Mayo 1677 en Sagrario, Aguascalientes.
28 M viii. Francisco Xavier Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 2 Mayo 1684 en Pinos, Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 2 Mayo 1684 en Par. San Mathias, Pinos.
+ 29 M ix. Vicente Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 22 Noviembre 1678.
Cuarta generación
20. Juana Diaz de Leon y Loza (Nicolas Diaz de Leon y Trujillo, Juan, Juan).
Juana se casó con Manuel Vargas el 8 Enero 1716 en Jolostotiltlan.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
30 F i. Rosa Maria Vargas Machuca.
Rosa se casó con Bernabé o Martin o Martin del Campo Gonzalez el 26 Enero 1733 en San Juan.
29. Vicente Diaz de Leon y Gil (Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Sotomayor, Juan, Juan) nació el 22 Noviembre 1678 en Aguascalientes Ags. y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 22 Noviembre 1678 en Sagrario, Aguascalientes.
Vicente se casó con Catharina Acosta el 26 Agosto 1708 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
31 M i. Felix Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en 1709 y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 10 Noviembre 1709 en Sagrario, Aguas..
32 M ii. Agustin Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Septiembre 1711 en Aguascalientes, Aguas. Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 5 Septiembre 1711 en Sagrario, Aguas..
33 M iii. Juan de Dios Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Abril 1713 en Aguascalientes Ags. y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 9 Abril 1713 en Sagrario, Aguas..
34 F iv. Luisa Serafina Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Septiembre 1714 en Aguascalientes, Aguas. Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 17 Septiembre 1714 en Sagrario, Aguas..
35 M v. Sebastian Diaz de Leon.
36 M vi. Gregorio Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Mayo 1716 en Aguascalientes Ags. y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 7 Mayo 1716 en Sagrario, Aguas..
37 M vii. Fernando Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació el 3 Enero 1741 en Aguascalientes Ags..
38 F viii. Maria Guadalupe Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Enero 1741.
39 F ix. Angela Diaz de Leon y Acosta nació en Enero 1741.
Muchísimas gracias por lo información que me envío acerca de la familia Díaz de León, me alegró el día con toda esa información.
A continuación agrego mi línea de los Díaz de León. Espero y se entienda porque está un poco revuelto.
1. Juan Díaz de León (n.1644)
cy: Juana Trujillo (n.1650;m.1669)
2. Nicolás Díaz de León (n.1670)
cy: Rosa María de Loza (n.1672;m.1693)
3. Francisco Javier Díaz de León (n.1714)
cy: María de Santiago de San Vicente González Rubio (n.1728;m.1754)
4. José Francisco Díaz González (n.1764)
cy: María Brígida Macías Valadez (n.1765;m.1793)
5. Roque Jacinto Díaz Macías (n.1796)
cy: María Sinforosa de Luna González (n.1802;m.1821)
6. María de Jesús Díaz de Luna (n.1822;f.1864)
cy: Anastasio Padilla Martín (n.1824;f.1864)
7. María Buenaventura Padilla Díaz (n.1854;f.1926)
cy: José Bernabé de la Mora Ramírez (n.1849;m.1870;f.1926)
8. María Evarista de la Mora Padilla (n.1890;f.1975)
cy: José Ruperto Díaz de Luna (n.1883;m.1907;f.1955)
9. Catalina Díaz de la Mora (n.1932)
cy: Justo Ramírez González (n.1923;m.1946;f.2001)
10. Gilberto Ramírez Díaz (n.1963)
cy: Ana Bertha Gómez Domínguez (n.1968;m.1985)
11. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez (n.1986)
6. Vicente Díaz de Luna (n.1837;f.1906)
cy: Serapia de Luna Guajardo (n.1843;m.1861;f.1906)
7. José Ruperto Díaz de Luna (n.1883;f.1955)
cy: María Evarista de la Mora Padilla (n.1890;m.1907;f.1975)
8. Catalina Díaz de la Mora (n.1932) ** Impreso en la página 1 **
cy: Micaela Vásquez de Lara (n.1709;m.1739)
4. Petra Rosalía Díaz Vásquez (n.1741;f.1808)
cy: Juan Manuel González Rubio (n.1715;m.1759)
5. María Micaela González Díaz (n.1770)
cy: José Antonio de Luna Jiménez (n.1754;m.1787)
6. José María de Luna González
cy: María Petrona Barajas Aguilar (n.1798;m.1819)
7. José de la Cruz de Luna Barajas (n.1824)
cy: Pánfila Guajardo Ramírez (n.1826;m.1841)
8. Serapia de Luna Guajardo (n.1843;f.1906)
cy: Vicente Díaz de Luna (n.1837;m.1861;f.1906)
9. José Ruperto Díaz de Luna (n.1883;f.1955) ** Impreso en la página 1 **
2. Antonia Díaz de León (n.1675)
cy: Nicolás de Loza (n.1670;m.1695)
3. María de Loza Tavera (n.1697)
cy: Juan de Luna Lozano (n.1689;m.1714)
4. Francisco Javier de Luna Loza (n.1715)
cy: María de la Asunción Jiménez de Castro (n.1724;m.1752)
5. José Antonio de Luna Jiménez (n.1754)
cy: María Micaela González Díaz (n.1770;m.1787)
6. José María de Luna González ** Impreso en la página 1 **
Descendientes de Juan Díaz de León
Página 2
10 JUL 2009
3. Elena de Loza Tavera (n.1713)
cy: Diego José González Rubio (n.1711;m.1734;f.1746)
4. José Tiburcio González Rubio (n.1743;f.1797)
cy: María Inés de los Dolores González Rubio (n.1758;m.1776)
5. María Ignacia González Rubio (n.1782)
cy: Juan José Antonio de Luna Gutiérrez (n.1770;m.1799)
6. María Sinforosa de Luna González (n.1802)
cy: Roque Jacinto Díaz Macías (n.1796;m.1821)
7. María de Jesús Díaz de Luna (n.1822;f.1864) ** Impreso en la página 1 **
7. Vicente Díaz de Luna (n.1837;f.1906) ** Impreso en la página 1 **
2. Juan Díaz de León (n.1682;f.1718)
cy: Lorenza de Loza González (n.1691;m.1707)
3. Ignacio José Díaz Montañez (n.1708;f.1755)
cy: Isabel Josefa Sánchez de Mendoza (n.1714;m.1732)
4. Bárbara Faustina Díaz Sánchez (n.1735)
cy: Agustín de Aguilar Jiménez (n.1730;m.1755)
5. Juana Rafaela Aguilar Díaz (n.1773)
cy: Juan Pablo Barajas Gutiérrez (n.1770;m.1790)
6. María Petrona Barajas Aguilar (n.1798)
cy: José María de Luna González (m.1819)
7. José de la Cruz de Luna Barajas (n.1824) ** Impreso en la página 1 **
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Feliz aniversario Messenger!
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx
Hello Salvador,
I couldn't find your name in your message, but I suppose you are Salvador,
right? I have a question for you. Is Pinos, Jalisco, the same as Sierra de
Pinos, Zacatecas? I have a number of records from the Real y Minas de
Sierra de Pinos, which I always thought was in Zacatecas. Or is Pinos,
Jalisco, a different town?
Thanks,
Bill Figueroa
si es pinos jalisco porque el documento habla tambien de jalos y es una
poblacion de jaliso que se llama jalostoc
>
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blogdiario.com/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blog.galeon.com/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/
salvador cabral valdes
Salvador, entre los datos que enviaste mencionas a Sebastiana Gil de la Mancha, me imagino que es la hija del Capitán Vasco Gil y Ana de la Mancha casados en Durango en 1642, ancestros de la familia Gil de Aguascalientes. Y que por cierto también son la linea paterna de la familia Gallardo de Tepatitlán, los cuales usaron el apellido Gallardo en vez del apellido Gil.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Gracias Messenger por estos 10 años
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx
Sebastiana si es hija de Vasco Gil y Ana de La Mancha , Ellos se casaron el 30/may/1642 en Durango.
El es hijo de Francisco Gil,( bautizado el 11/Oct/1626 en Durango) y Juana Martinez o Gonzalez.
Francisco Gil es hijo de Juan Gil y Ana Vasquez.
Ana de La Mancha es hija de Diego De La Mancha y Juana de Heredia
R.A.Ricci
es pinos jalisco, porque dice que la documentacion salio de jalostoc y es jalisco
Salvador Cabral Valdes
Salvador,
No se a que te refieres. Cual documentación salió de Jalostoc? Yo tengo a
muchas de esas personas con el apellido Díaz de León como vecinos de Pinos,
Zacatecas. Por ejemplo, tu incluyes en la lista a Jacinto Díaz de León y
Gil como sigue:
"25 M v. Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 19 Marzo 1694 en Pinos,
Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 19 Marzo 1694 en Par. San
Mathias, Pinos".
Ahora bien, Jacinto Díaz de León y Gil fue bautizado el 19 Mar 1694 en la
Iglesia Católica de San Matías de Pinos, Zacatecas. Su bautizo se
encuentran entre los registros parroquiales de esa iglesia, los cuales
fueron microfilmados por Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1974-1988. El número
del microfilme es #1095293. Puedes buscarlo en FamilySearch en el estado de
Zacatecas.
Asimismo Jacinta Martín de Sotomayor, casada con Juan Díaz de León Ortega,
fue bautizada el 9 de Diciembre de 1629 en Pinos, Zacatecas. Ese dato
aparece en el libro "Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva
Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales, por José Luis
Vázquez Rodríguez de Frías."
Y así muchos otros. Me parece que la persona que hizo la lista que
publicaste en Nuestros Ranchos confundió a Pinos, Zacatecas con algún otro
pueblo en el estado de Jalisco. He visto esa genealogía que publicaste en
Nuestros Ranchos en un CD que me enviaron de México hace algunos años, el
cual está plagado de errores, algunos de ellos garrafales.
A ver que piensas.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:23 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] pinos jalisco
> es pinos jalisco, porque dice que la documentacion salio de jalostoc y es
> jalisco
> Salvador Cabral Valdes
EAN JUAN DE JALOS ES JALISCO
ESTE ES EL DOCUMENTO
Juan Díaz de León (husband of Francisca de Ortega) was born c.1591. As a
witness to a granddaughter's wedding in 22 Feb 1651, he stated his age at
about 60 years old. Have identified seven children of Juan and Francisca:
[1]Pedro born c.1618, since he was about age 32 in the Feb 1651 entry;
[2]Juan born c.1620 (md 17 Aug 1648 Jacinta de Sotomayor, dtr of Andrés
Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla); [3]María (md Hernán Peres de
Moxica); [4]Antonia; [5]Luis; [6]Antonio b. 26 May 1621 Pinos; and [7]Joseph
b. 13 Jun 1630 Pinos.
Juan /Diaz de Leon/
Informacion del Doc # 531 ACTN 768
1 ACTN M
Almost fell off the chair after reading a gem of a marriage entry in
Aguascalientes.
The four seed of Juan Díaz de León and Juana Trujillo y Tavera in my FGS,
Nicolás, Antonia, Juan and Margarita all married Lozas. Up to now, I've
identified here, who three of those Lozas were, except your ancestor,
Nicolás Loza, the husband of Antonia.
Naturally that the first thing I did before beginning this epistle was mull
over the Xerox of the 1679 San Juan Census that you remitted, and wasn't
convinced. I have that Census, which was published, and a photocopy of the
original Jalos-San Juan Census of 1685, plus of several later ones.
I wasn't convinced because:
1. Bernabé de Loza and Gertrudis Montoya are not in the 1685 Census.
2. In most cases, when the first two names are of a man followed by a
woman, they were a married couple. But I've found several where they were
not: It involved households where only single persons lived. Because the
parents had died, etc.
3. There was not one record in San Juan or Jalos of that possible couple's
descendants. True, there is of Joseph de Loza and, of course, of Nicolás,
your forefather. Yet, Bernabé de Loza might have been an older brother, who
never married and died between 1679 and 1685. Gertrudis Montoya perhaps was
a distant relative or not related at all.
Three households up on the sheet of the 1679 Census are Andrés González,
María de Montoya, etc., probably González de Ruvalcaba. Said María might be
Gertrudis Montoya's sister. Don't have a FGS of that possible couple and
will have to look later.
Now to the jewel (love to keep persons in suspense):
In Aguascalientes, on 10 February 1687 were married: "Nicolás Chaide,
español con Margarita Loza, vecina esta nueve años, hija legítima de Bernabé
Loza y Gertrudis Montoya."
"Chaide" is not a surname; it's the way they'd often write "Chávez."
You win, Ophelia. They were your ancestors. Margarita is not in the 1679
Census because she'd "flown" about in 1677. Bernabé and Gertrudis also went
to Aguascalientes after 1679, the reason why they're not in the 1685 Census.
Why Aguascalientes? There's not one Loza there, and almost no Montoyas
(the few were "out-of-towners"). These were not families from
Aguascalientes, believe me. Because, Ophelia, that (and Sierra de Pinos)
was the old terrain of the Díaz de Leóns, and Juan Díaz de León was an
in-law relative. Sí, señor!
The third of the known offspring, Joseph de Loza was probably the oldest,
because he's named first, after the parents, in the 1679 Census. He didn't
marry young; in his late thirties to early forties. Wife was a mestiza,
Josepha Pérez aka Josepha Hermosillo, whose parents were Alonso Pérez and
Leonor Hermosillo. They resided in "Trujillos," the property, we can
estimate, of the first Trujillos that arrived from Guadalajara.
Seven daughters, mestizas, were born to them between 1705 and November
1721. The eldest, Felipa de Santiago Loza wed in Jalostotitlán 14 January
1722 to Efigenio Atilano y Quezada, a mestizo, by which time Joseph was
dead. Three others married mestizos too. In one christening, in 1717, the
padrinos were José Domínguez and Gertrudis Loza.
Margarita Loza, wed in early 1687, was born c.1668.
Nicolás Loza y Montoya: Arrived about 1670 and c.1695 celebrated his
nuptials with Antonia Díaz de Léon y Trujillo. Firstborn heirs found were
twins, Cayetano and Josepha, christened in San Juan 19 March and 31 March
1696, respectively. Nothing else on them, so think they died infants. Four
other baptisms I have were in Jalostotitlán of 11 children, seven
marriedJosé Manuel did so thrice. Most took place in Jalos.
The family moved about: Ciénega, Quimichines, Rincón de Chávez and
Nacospiloya in the Jalostotitlán 1728 Census. Living with them was Marcos
de Chávez, age 5. A grandson of sister Margarita? Too young to be a son.
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blogdiario.com/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blog.galeon.com/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/
salvador cabral valdes
Salvador,
Siento estar en desacuerdo contigo, pero el antiguo pueblo que originalmente
se llamó "Real de Nuestra Señora de Sierra de Pinos" fue fundado en lo que
hoy es el Municipio de Pinos, Zacatecas. La minas fueron descubiertas en
1556 por el Capitán Pedro de Ahumada y Sámano, quien tomó posesión como su
primer descubridor. Después de algunas luchas contra los chichimecas que
poblaban esas areas semi-desérticas, se fundó el asentamiento de Pinos el 12
de Febrero de 1594. Mayores detalles pueden verse en
http://www.portalzacatecas.com/municipios/pinos/
El pueblo de Pinos está ubicado a unos 90 km al ENE de Aguascalientes, 65 km
al WNW de San Luis Potosí, y 115 km ESE de la ciudad de Zacatecas. Allí se
desarrolló mucha actividad minera en los Siglos XVI y XVII, lo que explica
por qué familias de Aguascalientes, como los Díaz de León, se avecinaron en
ese lugar.
Bill Figueroa
revise la geografia de jalisco y no existe ninguna sierra de pinos y el municipio mas cercanos es el de maria de los angeles que colinda con pinos zacatecas, revise la informacion, y en ocasiones menciona sierra de pinos aguascalientes, esta informacion esta en las notas de los diaz de leon que tengo, y son documentos que realizo
Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
y si estas bien tu
Salvador Cabral Valdes
Jacinto diaz de leon y gil viene de familias que primero llegaron a aguascalientes por su padre y por su madre pasaron primero a durango y luego a aguascalientes Despues pasaron a pinos jalisco y teocaltiche y nochistlan zacatecas con una rama pasando a jalostotitlan/Lagos
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Bill Figueroa
Sent: Fri 7/10/2009 10:22 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] pinos jalisco
Salvador,
No se a que te refieres. Cual documentación salió de Jalostoc? Yo tengo a
muchas de esas personas con el apellido Díaz de León como vecinos de Pinos,
Zacatecas. Por ejemplo, tu incluyes en la lista a Jacinto Díaz de León y
Gil como sigue:
"25 M v. Jacinto Diaz de Leon y Gil nació el 19 Marzo 1694 en Pinos,
Jalisco, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 19 Marzo 1694 en Par. San
Mathias, Pinos".
Ahora bien, Jacinto Díaz de León y Gil fue bautizado el 19 Mar 1694 en la
Iglesia Católica de San Matías de Pinos, Zacatecas. Su bautizo se
encuentran entre los registros parroquiales de esa iglesia, los cuales
fueron microfilmados por Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1974-1988. El número
del microfilme es #1095293. Puedes buscarlo en FamilySearch en el estado de
Zacatecas.
Asimismo Jacinta Martín de Sotomayor, casada con Juan Díaz de León Ortega,
fue bautizada el 9 de Diciembre de 1629 en Pinos, Zacatecas. Ese dato
aparece en el libro "Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva
Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales, por José Luis
Vázquez Rodríguez de Frías."
Y así muchos otros. Me parece que la persona que hizo la lista que
publicaste en Nuestros Ranchos confundió a Pinos, Zacatecas con algún otro
pueblo en el estado de Jalisco. He visto esa genealogía que publicaste en
Nuestros Ranchos en un CD que me enviaron de México hace algunos años, el
cual está plagado de errores, algunos de ellos garrafales.
A ver que piensas.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:23 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] pinos jalisco
> es pinos jalisco, porque dice que la documentacion salio de jalostoc y es
> jalisco
> Salvador Cabral Valdes
No existe, Salvador. Es una equivocación.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] pinos jalisco
Pero donde esta pinos Jalisco
Salvador Cabral Valdes
Puede ser que me equivoque pero tengo entendido que en anos muy atras, antes de la revolucion, partes del sur de Zacatecas pertenecian al estado de Jalisco. Quizas sea un mito pero he escuchado que Santa Ana por castigo cambio los linderos de los estados en momentos de su insanidad o ira mental?
Que opinan, hay valides a esta historia o es solo un cuento? ustedes que conocen mas de la historia de Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: "Ricci, Richard"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 3:33:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] pinos jalisco
Jacinto diaz de leon y gil viene de familias que primero llegaron a aguascalientes por su padre y por su madre pasaron primero a durango y luego a aguascalientes Despues pasaron a pinos jalisco y teocaltiche y nochistlan zacatecas con una rama pasando a jalostotitlan/Lagos
________________________________
Jacinto Diaz de Leon paso a Durango donde conocio a Sebastiana Gil de La Mancha y se caso con ella el 25/feb1675 en Aguascalientes. Sebastiana se bautizo el19/Feb/1657 en Durango. Sebastiana Gil de La Mancha murio el 27/jul/1730 en Aguascalientes.
Los padres, abuelo a, y bisabuelos vivian en Durango.
R A Ricci
Hola Luz,
Tal vez esto te ayude a orientarte un poco sobre la vida de los esclavos de ascendencia negra en la region:
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Claudia:
Aunque quizá ya conozcas esta serie de artículos sobre los negros jaliscienses, de todos modos te envío las referencias. Todos los artículos están en el número 49 de la Revista Estudios Jaliscienses de El Colegio de Jalisco.
Estudios Jaliscienses, número 49
Los afrojaliscienses
Zapopan: El Colegio de Jalisco. 2002, Agosto. 63 p.
(Revista trimestral)
· Andrés Fábregas Puig. Introducción.
· Celina Guadalupe Becerra. Población africana en una sociedad ranchera.
· Mario Alberto Nájera. Los afrojaliscienses.
· Álvaro Ochoa Serrano. Un acercamiento a afrobarquenses en los lejanos XVII y XVIII.
· Romina Martínez. Algunas notas sobre la fuga de esclavos en Nueva Galicia.
==
Por mi parte, he hecho algunas exploraciones sobre la ancestría y el mestizaje en los Altos de Jalisco, aunque todavía no he publicado nada sobre el asunto. De acuerdo con una muestra, he encontrado que el perfil genético de los niños bautizados en las parroquias de Tepatitlán y Jalostotitlán, entre fines del siglo XVII y principios del XIX, está constituido por un aporte de la "raza" negra que se ubica entre el 10% y el 14%. Esto, por supuesto, considerando que el mulato tiene 50% de "sangre" negra y 50% de blanca. Ha sido interesante para mía descubrir que el mestizaje verdaderamente importante que encuentro en Los Altos no es entre blancos e indios, sino más bien entre blancos y negros.
En Jalostotitlán he encontrado mención de esclavos negros desde 1619.
==
Aquí en Los Altos, me parece que un personaje clave para la introducción de negros esclavos fue Carlo Lomellini, genovés, quien se estableció en Mexticacán con un considerable contingente de esclavos negros, lo cual ocasionó que a Mexticacán le llamaran "El Perú Chiquito".
El hecho que haya sido un Lomellini (apellido que se transformó luego en Lomelín o, sencillamente, Lomelí) nos remite al Asiento Grillo-Lomellini que firmó el rey de España con estos dos genoveses para llevar esclavos negros a sus dominios de América. Uno de los Lomellini trajo negros para Hernán Cortés quien los empleó en sus propiedades del marquesado de Oaxaca. Por otras lecturas que he hecho; entiendo, si me acuerdo bien, que los negros que llegaron a Nueva España procedían de diversas regiones del África Subsahariana, de las Islas de Cabo Verde y más tarde de las Antillas pues los comerciantes de esclavos preferían comprarlos más cerca que ir hasta África. No me hagas demasiado caso, voy a buscar los artículos que he bajado de Internet y luego te hago llegar las referencias.
Un saludo.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco
There was an excellent series recently on PBS called Black in Latin
America. It is created by and narrated by Dr. Henry Louis Gates. It is
scheduled to repeat in April and May of this year. The second episode is
entitled Peru and Mexico. Very interesting and pertinent to our
discusssion on this topic. Marge:)
2012/3/21
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
>
> Claudia:
>
> Aunque quizá ya conozcas esta serie de artículos sobre los negros
> jaliscienses, de todos modos te envío las referencias. Todos los artículos
> están en el número 49 de la Revista Estudios Jaliscienses de El Colegio de
> Jalisco.
>
> Estudios Jaliscienses, número 49
> Los afrojaliscienses
> Zapopan: El Colegio de Jalisco. 2002, Agosto. 63 p.
> (Revista trimestral)
> · Andrés Fábregas Puig. Introducción.
> · Celina Guadalupe Becerra. Población africana en una sociedad ranchera.
> · Mario Alberto Nájera. Los afrojaliscienses.
> · Álvaro Ochoa Serrano. Un acercamiento a afrobarquenses en los lejanos
> XVII y XVIII.
> · Romina Martínez. Algunas notas sobre la fuga de esclavos en Nueva
> Galicia.
>
> ==
>
> Por mi parte, he hecho algunas exploraciones sobre la ancestría y el
> mestizaje en los Altos de Jalisco, aunque todavía no he publicado nada
> sobre el asunto. De acuerdo con una muestra, he encontrado que el perfil
> genético de los niños bautizados en las parroquias de Tepatitlán y
> Jalostotitlán, entre fines del siglo XVII y principios del XIX, está
> constituido por un aporte de la "raza" negra que se ubica entre el 10% y el
> 14%. Esto, por supuesto, considerando que el mulato tiene 50% de "sangre"
> negra y 50% de blanca. Ha sido interesante para mía descubrir que el
> mestizaje verdaderamente importante que encuentro en Los Altos no es entre
> blancos e indios, sino más bien entre blancos y negros.
>
> En Jalostotitlán he encontrado mención de esclavos negros desde 1619.
>
> ==
> Aquí en Los Altos, me parece que un personaje clave para la introducción
> de negros esclavos fue Carlo Lomellini, genovés, quien se estableció en
> Mexticacán con un considerable contingente de esclavos negros, lo cual
> ocasionó que a Mexticacán le llamaran "El Perú Chiquito".
>
> El hecho que haya sido un Lomellini (apellido que se transformó luego en
> Lomelín o, sencillamente, Lomelí) nos remite al Asiento Grillo-Lomellini
> que firmó el rey de España con estos dos genoveses para llevar esclavos
> negros a sus dominios de América. Uno de los Lomellini trajo negros para
> Hernán Cortés quien los empleó en sus propiedades del marquesado de Oaxaca.
> Por otras lecturas que he hecho; entiendo, si me acuerdo bien, que los
> negros que llegaron a Nueva España procedían de diversas regiones del
> África Subsahariana, de las Islas de Cabo Verde y más tarde de las Antillas
> pues los comerciantes de esclavos preferían comprarlos más cerca que ir
> hasta África. No me hagas demasiado caso, voy a buscar los artículos que he
> bajado de Internet y luego te hago llegar las referencias.
>
> Un saludo.
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
> Jalostotitlán, Jalisco
Ademas de lo que sugiere don Alfonso Reynoso", dos publicaciones acerca de la esclavitud y los negros en la region han sido publicadas por los hermanos Carlos y Mario Gomez Mata:
- "Esclavitud en Lagos y Los Afrolaguenses" de Mario en el 2009 el el que "...al abordar el tema de la poblaciòn africana y sus descendientes en la regiòn alteña, se rompen inercias culturales centenarias impuestas por las èlites como su historia transmitida al resto de la sociedad bajo su mando."
- "Los negros de Santa Maria de los Lagos" de Carlos en este 2011. Una excelente obra cuyo prologo del Dr Sergio Lopez Mena dice:
"...un libro muy importante para el conocimiento de la historia de Lagos de Moreno, particularmente de su conformación racial durante la dominación española, Los negros de Santa María de los Lagos. Presencia, esclavitud y mestizaje. Esta obra, escrita por Carlos Gómez Mata luego de efectuar acuciosas investigaciones en archivos especializados, nos lleva al reencuentro de una realidad poco estudiada, la de que hubo gente traída a los antiguos llanos de los chichimecas desde el centro y el suroriente de África.
Eran pocas las referencias que hasta ahora teníamos acerca de la negritud en la región. Con el presente estudio, se agranda y se profundiza la visión de un aspecto central en la vida de los Altos, el de su conformación pluriétnica..."
Miguel Beltran
Sr Alfonso Rabago Reynoso,
Es my interestsante la informacion que nos das sobre Los esclavos y Los Lomellini. Me gustaria saber mas de Los dos temas. Cuando yo empece mis estudios sobre la familia me soprendi a descubrir que mi padre, unos de los hombres mas blancos de piel que he visto en toda mi vida, descendia de un mulato que vivio en Los primers de1700's. En la acta matrimonial dice que era mulato libre de teocaltiche. Yo esperaba encontrar blancos y Indios en mi arbol familiar pero encontre casi puro blanco con poquito Indio y poquito mulatto. De este mulato en mi familia desciende muchisma jente en Jalostotitlan, Tepatitlan Y el Valle de Guadalupe.
Tambien desciendo de Carlo y Luis Lomeli.
Estoy tratando de juntar toda la informacion que puedo sobre estos Lomellini.
Como puedo comprar estos articulos y Libro des de Los Angeles, California?
Gracias,
R.A.Ricci
Does anyone know why the Lomeli's and Jauregui's had such a close relationship that many of them married each other?
There's no clear cut answer to your questions but here are a few scenarios.
All of us see the same situations, different surnames but same circumstances within our family groups. There are several things occurring when families inter-marry.
1. These families, the Jauregui's and the Lomeli's or Lomelini's lived within very close proximity of each other.
2. Both of these families, the Lomeli's and the Jauregui's were for the most part, Espanoles and usually they wanted their children to marry only Espanoles.
3. There were only a couple of handfuls of Spanish families in each community or Rancho.
4. Courting was strictly supervised by the parents, in many cases, the parents decided whom their daughters could court. I don't say date because dating was for the most part, non-existent. The groom to be's parents would visit the bride to be's parents to ask for her hand in marriage, meaning that they had to approve and ensure that the bride or the groom came from an approved family.
5. Inheritance, if there was any meant that property or belongings must stay within the same families.
I'm sure some other Ranchos members will have much more insight into this phenomenon.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "7shagzilla7@gmail.com" <7shagzilla7@gmail.com>
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:32 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jauregui/Lomeli
Does anyone know why the Lomeli's and Jauregui's had such a close relationship that many of them married each other?
My first cousins have one of the Jauregui and Lomelin unions in their ancestry. They descend from an Henrique Jauregui and Ma. Antonia Lomeli that I believe came from Mexticacan but left many descendents in Tepatitlan and Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco. I have not had any luck finding their parents.
R.A.Ricci
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo Have you looked in the surrounding municipios. Nochistlan, Yahualica, Cuquio, Teocaltiche and a few others?
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
So far my new lost cosuin Stevan and I are researching the Ornelas with detail and trying to find documents proving Alvaro from Lagos de Moreno came from Madeira Islands. I got this from rootsweb. but the link to the actual source appears broken. I will upload the will of Alvaro I later in the week I am busy today!
I have a Alvaro Ornelas as being the son of his first wife Constanca de Mendoza de Vasconcellos and not from his second wife Branca Fernandez de Abreu.
I also have a wife for this Alvaro Ornelas. Do you have any new information on Alvaro Ornelas?
Thanks,
R.A.Ricci
Hi-
It is so helpful to see such a comprehensive trail of where the family came and went along with why they went where they did. I just recently found a connection to the Ornelas as I am directly related on my maternal grandmother's side to the Diaz de Sandi line below who married into the Ornelas Villasenor line.
Juana Díaz de Sandi y Tejeda[1] de los Monteros. Contrajo matrimonio con Francisco Tello de Lomas. abt. 1680
Miguel Díaz Montañez[2] fue hijo de Diego Montañez y de Jacinta Carrillo de Sandi.
Caso con María Tejeda de los Monteros, abt. 1650 hija legítima de Nicolás Tejeda de los Monteros y de Galavíz y de María de Ornelas Villaseñor.
Does the Ornelas Villasenor line tie into any Ornelas line that you have?
Thanks,
Does anyone know if the Villasenor line here ties into the Villasenor or Villasenor y Jazo lines in Zapotlan el Grande/Ciudad Gusman, or Tamazula, Jalisco Mexico? My earliest record for a Villasenor line has them in Angamacutiro De La Union,Michoacan, Pedro Villasenor Orosco and wife Maria Jazo who had a son, Felix Gerardo Villasenor y Jaso living in Tamazula Jalisco by 1725 with his wife Leonor Munguia. I have not been able to find where the Munguia family came from before arriving in the 1600's in Tamazula.
Is anyone working these lines?
Linda in Everett
--- On Fri, 3/27/09, miri12 wrote:
From: miri12
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] ornelas and villasenor?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 8:31 AM
Hi-
It is so helpful to see such a comprehensive trail of where the family came and
went along with why they went where they did. I just recently found a connection
to the Ornelas as I am directly related on my maternal grandmother's side to
the Diaz de Sandi line below who married into the Ornelas Villasenor line.
Juana Díaz de Sandi y Tejeda[1] de los Monteros. Contrajo matrimonio con
Francisco Tello de Lomas. abt. 1680
Miguel Díaz Montañez[2] fue hijo de Diego Montañez y de Jacinta
Carrillo de Sandi.
Caso con María Tejeda de los Monteros, abt. 1650 hija legítima de Nicolás
Tejeda de los Monteros y de Galavíz y de María de Ornelas Villaseñor.
Does the Ornelas Villasenor line tie into any Ornelas line that you have?
Thanks,
I've been busily downloading images from pilot.familysearch.org.
Does anyone know how to bypass the adobe flash player and find the
image files directly? If I could do this I could automate the process
and reduce a several-month project to a few days.
On other sites I've been able to right-click and look at properties
and figure out the image filename and address. But I can't figure out
how to do that with this website.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Where and how do you download images? Can everyone go to pilot and download images?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart Armstrong
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] pilotfamilysearch images
I've been busily downloading images from pilot.familysearch.org.
Does anyone know how to bypass the adobe flash player and find the
image files directly? If I could do this I could automate the process
and reduce a several-month project to a few days.
On other sites I've been able to right-click and look at properties
and figure out the image filename and address. But I can't figure out
how to do that with this website.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Yes Miggi, anyone can have access to the images. Simply go to Pilot, click where it reads Canada, USA, Mexico. A list of places by country will appear. At the bottom you will find Mexico, and the sites available to: Browse unindexed images. Click there, and you will get the names of the parishes. Once you choose a parish, you will have a list of records by type (e.g., baptismos) and a year range. Click, and it will open the image of the book, begining with the book's cover. You can then move to the pages of interest. For marriages, confirmations and baptisms, most images appear for most part in chronological order. However, Informacion Matrimoniales are not in order, and finding the one you want may take hours.
Regarding Stuart's question about bypassing Adobe. I do not have that issue. It must be something related to the preferences of your browser. In my Mac I use Camino, and in my PC, I use Mozilla FireFox. In both, the images load rather rapidly without invoking an external browser.
Enjoy
Jaime
Jaime and Miggi,
The pilot home page is
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
> Regarding Stuart's question about bypassing Adobe. I do not have
> that issue. It must be something related to the preferences of your
> browser. In my Mac I use Camino, and in my PC, I use Mozilla
> FireFox. In both, the images load rather rapidly without invoking an external browser.
Oh, they load fast enough. When I first went to the website I got this
message: "Record Search requires Flash Player to run. Click the "Install Flash Player" link below to install the latest version.
Follow the instructions. When you are done come back and try again.
Install Flash Player"
After installing the required version of Adobe Flash Player (which was
very quick) I never got the message again, except that for each
session it takes a few seconds for the add-on to load. Flash Player is
integrated with the browser so that it appears to be just part of the
website. It requires the browser be set to allow Active-X controls and
plugins and scripts to run, but other than that it is transparent.
But each image must be loaded manually, that is by clicking on the
appropriate button the way you normally do. I have a utility called
NeoDownload, which can search an entire website and download all the
images while you sleep. But to do that, you must be able to give the
exact web address for each image, and you do so by specifying the
ranges. For example, for the "Diccionario Geográfico, Histórico y
Biográfico de los Estados Unidos Mexicano" the address ranges are
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol1/o[1-468].jpg
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol2/p[1-502].jpg
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol3/p[1-408].jpg
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol4/p[1-480].jpg
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol5/p[1-567].jpg
(Those addresses above are not clickable because they are ranges;
but, for example
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol1/o1.jpg
will take you directly to the first image, showing only the image and
not the rest of the page)
That downloaded the entire 2425-page dictionary in one session
un-attended, including some images which are normally "hidden". I
figured out the addresses by right-clicking on several images and
looking at properties until I could understand the filename pattern.
I can't do that with pilot.familysearch because right-clicking doesn't
disclose the image address like it does with most websites. If I could
just figure out the image addresses, I could batch-download a group of
collections over-night, assuming they aren't blocked. I'm hoping
someone who understands the internet better than I do can figure out
the image addresses at pilot.familysearch.
Incidentally, I suspect pilot chose Aguascalientes to put online
first, not necessarily because of alphabetical order but because it is
a small state but is more complete than most areas of Mexico and it
just makes a natural starting point for a big project. I would be
tickled pink if Jalisco and Zacatecas were next. These images are
changing the way I do research forever. I have written twice to family
search.org thanking them for putting the images online. Forget the
indexes - as useful as they are, I prefer to see the original. Indexes
can be annoyingly inaccurate.
Now if I could just batch-edit some of those faint images to give them
more contrast ... yes, yes, I know it can be done - I just have to
fiddle with it awhile to find a combination that works across a large
group of images without losing anything.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Hi Linda I am working the Villasenor Jazo lines, Pedro Villasenor Orozco is my 9th Great Grandfather. Are you related to the Villasenor Jazo family ??
Rafael Meraz
Hi Mr. Meraz. I have Jazo surnames lines in my genealogy, in the State of
Durango. Es posible que exista paentesco?
Gracias. Have a great day!
2011/3/12
> Hi Linda I am working the Villasenor Jazo lines, Pedro Villasenor Orozco is
> my 9th Great Grandfather. Are you related to the Villasenor Jazo family ??
>
> Rafael Meraz
Hi Mr. Valles I don't think were related because my Jazo lines are in Jalisco and Michoacan.
Rafael Meraz
Thank you very much for answering. Maybe later I'll find a mutualrelative
Jazo. Have a great day.
D.I. Valles
2011/3/13
> Hi Mr. Valles I don't think were related because my Jazo lines are in
> Jalisco and Michoacan.
> Rafael Meraz
Hello, not directly, one of my Rolon siblings married into the Villansenor Jazo
family. They are hard to trace, some went Villansenor and some went Jazzo!
I did post everything I have on Rootsweb.com but have not worked on this line in
a couple of years.
good luck in your search
Linda Castanon-Long
________________________________
From: "merazrafael@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 6:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ornelas and villasenor?
Hi Linda I am working the Villasenor Jazo lines, Pedro Villasenor Orozco is my
9th Great Grandfather. Are you related to the Villasenor Jazo family ??
Rafael Meraz
Hi guys,
Maybe you have already tried this but the name youre looking into is spelled Jasso . Like many other names the priest that wrote the name did it the way it sounded to him at the time . Try looking for the name Jasso in your searches.
Welester
> Hello, not directly, one of my Rolon siblings married into the Villansenor Jazo
> family. They are hard to trace, some went Villansenor and some went Jazzo!
>
> I did post everything I have on Rootsweb.com but have not worked on this line in
> a couple of years.
> good luck in your search
> Linda Castanon-Long
>
>
>
>
> Hi Linda I am working the Villasenor Jazo lines, Pedro Villasenor Orozco is my
> 9th Great Grandfather. Are you related to the Villasenor Jazo family ??
>
> Rafael Meraz
Linda thanks for helping me !! You have a lot of information on my ancestors. I am waiting for Family Search to add Tamazula Jalisco images online before I start searching again. Do you have any idea when Family Search plans to add more images of Jalisco records online ??
Rafael Meraz
Rafael, glad I could be of help. Daniel may have more information on when
Tamazula and Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco will be online on the pilot program. Daniel
and I share the Mendez line. Like you I will be very happy to see it to
complete my records. Until then I continue to work on my Zacatecas lines.
Linda
________________________________
From: "merazrafael@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 6:48:11 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villasenor Jazo
Linda thanks for helping me !! You have a lot of information on my ancestors. I
am waiting for Family Search to add Tamazula Jalisco images online before I
start searching again. Do you have any idea when Family Search plans to add more
images of Jalisco records online ??
Rafael Meraz
Good to know hopefully I we could share a line with Daniel and be related. Do
you know anybody else from Nuestros Ranchos
that is has family in Tamazula Jalisco or surrouding towns ??
Rafael Meraz
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:33:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villasenor Jazo
Rafael, glad I could be of help. Daniel may have more information on when
Tamazula and Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco will be online on the pilot program. Daniel
and I share the Mendez line. Like you I will be very happy to see it to
complete my records. Until then I continue to work on my Zacatecas lines.
Linda
________________________________
From: "merazrafael@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 6:48:11 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villasenor Jazo
Linda thanks for helping me !! You have a lot of information on my ancestors. I
am waiting for Family Search to add Tamazula Jalisco images online before I
start searching again. Do you have any idea when Family Search plans to add more
images of Jalisco records online ??
Rafael Meraz
Rafael,
I too have a ties to Tamazula, Ciudad Guzman and other surrounding towns.
I've hit a roadblock with the Ciudad Guzman records - they are just not very
informative in the time period I'm currently looking at. I'm hoping that the
"informaciones matrimoniales" will be more helpful; so, like you, I'm
anxious for those films to be released on the website.
-Angelina-
Angelina
I am researching the towns of Tamazula and Tecalitlan JAL. The surnames that I
am researching in those areas are Jimenez, Olivera, Garibay, Jazo, Ramos, Mora,
Barron and Adame.
Rafael Meraz
________________________________
From: Angelina Markle
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 7:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villasenor Jazo
Rafael,
I too have a ties to Tamazula, Ciudad Guzman and other surrounding towns. I've
hit a roadblock with the Ciudad Guzman records - they are just not very
informative in the time period I'm currently looking at. I'm hoping that the
"informaciones matrimoniales" will be more helpful; so, like you, I'm anxious
for those films to be released on the website.
-Angelina-
Rafael,
Unfortunately, we don't have any of those surnames in common. However, I
will watch for them.
-Angelina-
-----Original Message-----
From: Rafael Meraz
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:48 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villasenor Jazo
Angelina
I am researching the towns of Tamazula and Tecalitlan JAL. The surnames that
I
am researching in those areas are Jimenez, Olivera, Garibay, Jazo, Ramos,
Mora,
Barron and Adame.
Rafael Meraz
Jaime Obregon Mimbela. que tal , me pongo a sus ordenes desde aguascalientes ,desconosco la ascendecia de maria micaela de urbina villaseñor y jasso , esposa de ildelfonso obregon aguilar y ventosillo y busto,..encontre el matrimonio de catalina villaseñor delgadillo ( hija de pedro villaseñor ) con pedro de urbina y zaldivar , no se si tenga relacion , mucho agradeceria si me ilustran en este tema . feliz dia ..
mexico.pueblosamerica.com
Este tambien es un buen enlace
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11613-122306-55?cc=1502404…
Calvillo, Aguascalientes Señor San José Matrimonios 1772-1813,image 211 of 461.
Hi,
I can't read the name of the Pueso, but it indeed seems to start with Sal...
The full name of the first wife was Maria de San Juan de Leon, it is unclear if San Juan is part of her given name or ofher surname.
The name of Damiana's mother is also hard to read. Could be Matiana or Mariana, it is hard to read. A variant of the name Anastacia is Ana Estacia, or just Estacia, and maybe someone could also write as Nastacia or Nestacia.
Ragards,
Victoriano Navarro
It says "puesto de Salsipuedes jurisdicción de Lagos". I also have ancestors from that ranch. It is located north of Lagos de Moreno.
Armando
By the way, Sal-si-puedes means get-out-if-you-can. I've heard here in Torreón there was a store nicknamed El Salsipuedes, because the owner would not let you leave unless you bought something.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Search has found a couple named Dn. Manuel Ruiz de Tagle y Anastacia Macia in a marrage of their Child in Asiento, Ags. Could the name be Anasacia Macias ? Manuel Ruis daughter has been named in other baptisms as Damiana Ruis de Tagle.
La Búsqueda ha encontrado una pareja llamada Dn. Manuel Ruiz de Tagle y Anastacia Macia en un matrimonio de su Niño en Asiento, Ags. ¿Podría ser el nombre Anasacia Macias y no Matiana Macias?
Damiana Ruis, la hija de Manuel Ruis se llamo en bautismos Damiana Ruis de Tagle.
I wonder if this will just be corrected if it ever gets indexed or should i bring it to someones attention. Nuestro Senor de Jalpa, Jalpa Zac. Registros de la Parroquia.
The entry reads Los datos es lo Siguiente
Fernando Martinez y Ysavel Romo de Vibar. What is Vibar. ??? an abreviated surname ?
David,
Romo de Vivar is a compound surname. The patriarch of this family was Diego Romo de Vivar born 12 March 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Castilla-La Mancha. He married María Rangel Peguero in somewhere in Mexico and they settled down in Aguascalientes and their descendants spread to different parts of Jalisco including Lagos de Moreno. Many of us, including myself multiple times, descend from Diego Romo de Vivar.
El Cid Campeador, named Rodrigo Díaz, was supposedly born in Vivar, Burgos, España and it is why he is called Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_D%C3%ADaz_de_Vivar#Nacimiento
We have yet to learn of where the Romo de Vivar surname originates but it is very likely Diego Romo de Vivar had an ancestor that was from Vivar, Burgos. I doubt that there is any relation to El Cid Campeador.
I have not been able to find the paternal grandparents of Isabel Romo de Vivar but there is a dispensa for her parents - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-9191-35?cc=1874591&wc=…
Armando
Vivar is not an abbreviated surname.
In Mexico there's a TV character named el Señor Barriga, played by Edgar Vivar.
And el Cid's name was Rodrigo Diaz de Vibar.
Best,
Victoriano Navarro
Calvillo ,Señor San José , Bautismos 1798-1806 , image 325 of 496.
Maria Manuela hares Hija legitima de Julian de la hares y Ma. de Asencion de Figueroa
What is the jurisdiccion of the place he is from? Lago?
¿Cuál es la Jurisdicción del puesto de donde viene Ramon Martinez? Lago?
David,
Como todavía no había reglas de ortografía escribían el mismo apellido de muchas formas distintas.
El apellido es DE LARA en el caso de Jose Jullian Macias, Hijo legitimo de Eufracio Macias y Ma. Victoria de la Hara. El sacerdote apuntó DE LA HARA en vez de DE LARA.
Eufracio Macias y Victoria de Lara tuvieron otro hijo llamado Jose Cecilio en Teul. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15697-17224-4?cc=1804458&wc=…
En esa partida el apellido esta bien escrito.
El apellido es DE LARES en el caso de Maria Manuela Hares hija legitima de Julian de la Hares y Ma. de Asencion de Figueroa. Julian Lares Y María Ascención de Figueroa tuvieron otros hijos en 1808 y 1815.
Armando
Aii lo tonto me siento! Debería haber reconocido la similitud. Gracias por su ayuda.
Calvillo , Señor San José , Bautismos 1798-1806 , image 327 of 496.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11118-60922-70?cc=1502404&…
Jose Jullian Macias, Hijo legitimo de Eufracio Macias y Ma. Victoria de la hara.
This book was wonderful. And free at Project Gutenberg. I read the whole
thing and got a much better idea of what life was like in Mexico during
colonial times.
Beverly
Hola !
I am trying to locate the name of a book I used to read online. It was a collection of letters in ingles, from a woman in Collonial Nueva Espana Mejico.
Wow! Very interesting. I like those books of people that traveled inside Mexico during those time periods. Also some of them made paintings as they traveled.
Is this the book?
Life in Mexico by Madame Calderón de la Barca
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/9364
Rosalinda
Thank you that is definatly it... I love this book !!! The Insights into Life in this time period are Fantastic... David Serna Here is a sample ..Mexico 1839
Count C---a has promised to send me to-morrow a box of mosquitoes' eggs, of
which tortillas are made, which are considered a great delicacy.
In Mexico, mosquitoes as small winged _cannibals_, I was
rather shocked at the idea, but they pretend that these which are from the
Laguna, are a superior race of creatures, which do not sting. In fact the
Spanish historians mention that the Indians used to eat bread made of the
eggs which the fly called _agayacatl_ laid on the rushes of the lakes, and
which they (the Spaniards) found very palatable.
Es increible que se haya cometido un error por un escribano de la parroquia de San Jose de Gracia Rincon de Romos en la fe de bautismo de Jose Filomeno Araiza (De Araiza) hijo legitimo de Valentin De
![http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol1/o[1-468].jpg](http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/vol1/o[1-468].jpg){kind=link}
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