Early Bobadilla Family from Colotlan

Does anyone know if there is a connection with the early Bobadilla Family from Colotlan and early Bobadilla Family from Tlaltenango.

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Comentario

The Bobadillas married into my ancestory Tree; Antonio Bobadilla's daughter-in-law Juana Cardenas is my 2nd cousin 6x removed and her mother Micaela de Gaete Escobedo is my 1st cousin 7x removed.

I have documentation for 3 children of Antonio Bobadilla born abt 1670: Nicolas, Maria Leonarda, and Pablo Antonio.

Other Trees show 4 more children of Antonio Bobadilla: Margarita b: ABT 1690 Bolaños, Jalisco, Mexico
Joseph Andres b: abt 1693
Juan Pedro b: abt 1695
and Gertrudis b: abt 1700 Bolaños, Jalisco, Mexico.

I have found most of these individuals BUT have been unable to find proof/documentation that Margarita, Joseph Andres, Juan Pedro, and Gertrudis are children of Antonio Bobadilla. Many other members' Trees have them but none provide documentation or proof.

Can anyone help me with the proof or documentation?

Sleepless in Hayward,

Joseph de Leon

Comentario

Micaela was the daugther of Juan de Gaete Flores and Juana de Escobedo y Cabrera. Juan and Juana got married in 1684 in Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas.

About the Bobadilla .If you can check the files of Tlaltenango (Tepechitlan) where Francisco and Pedro de Bobadilla were encomenderos is very difficult to find people with the lastname Bobadilla. I saw Bobadilla in Totatiche, Jalisco where Juan de Gaete and Juana de Escobedo lived ab 1700´s.

I am interested in the Bobadillas, because the Haro y Saucedo where grandgrandsons of Pedro de Bobadilla but I can´t fid the relation among these people.

Jph Martin de Pena

I am seeking information about my 5th maternal grandfather, Jsp Martin de Pena. He was born abt. 1761, and was married to Maria Rufina Ximenez, 08 Nov 1761, in Teocaltiche, Jalisco.

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Comentario

Hi Paul,
The marriage record states that Jose's parents were Jose Leon de Pena and Juana Maria de Soto, both deceased. He was originally from Valle de San Mateo del Pilon, which is in Nuevo Leon. Maria Rufina's parents are Feliz Jimenez and Margarita de Vargas. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19050-64444-88?cc=1874591&wc…

Regards,
Austin Perez

José Martín de Peña con María Rufina Jiménez, en el Arroyo Seco, proclama en 25, 28 de octubre y 1 de noviembre
En Teocaltiche en ocho de noviembre de dicho año [mil setecientos sesenta y uno], habiendo precedido informaciones y amonestaciones inter missarum solemnia en tres días festivos según dispone el Santo Concilio y no resultado impedimento, casé y velé ''in facie ecclesiae'' a José Martín de Peña, mestizo, hijo legítimo de José León de Peña y de Juana María de Soto, difuntos, originario del Valle de San Mateo del Pilón y vecino en el Arroyo Seco tiempo de un año con María Rufina Jiménez, española, hija legítima de Feliz Jiménez y de Margarita de Vargas, originaria y vecina en dicho Arroyo, padrinos José Ascencio de Ruvalcaba y María Antonia de Ruvalcaba, testigos los dichos. Y lo firmé.
Pedro José Álvarez Tostado

Rancho Mesa de Vasquez

Estoy buscando el lugar exacto donde existia el Rancho Mesa de Vasquez durante el 1900. Ese rancho esta al cerca de Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas y Mezquitic, Jalisco.

Nuestros Ranchos films

Just wondering why there are so many films forsaken by the borrowers and have never been finalized so that we members could access them?

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En respuesta a por katy_brecht_quesada

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too many to mention but I'll name a few in the films I like to search. That's why I was asking how to help or edit these films.

Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas -
Marriages 1627-1723 443967 M607138

Huejucar, Jalisco
Baptisms 1888-1898 445098
Baptisms 1898-1910 445099
Baptisms 1910-1920 445100

Colotlan, Jalisco
Baptisms 1877-1881 443688
Baptisms 1881-1883 443689
Baptisms 1883-1888 443690
Baptisms 1888-1890 443691
Baptisms 1890-1894 443692
Baptisms 1894-1899 443693
Baptisms 1899-1904 443694
Baptisms 1904-1910 443695

and so on

Joseph de Leon

En respuesta a por Joseph de Leon

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oh ok, and the tlaltenango Marriages 1627-1723, has some time gaps between records and is not in chronological order.

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Joseph

I'm confused as to what you mean. I took one of the film numbers you listed (443688), and did a search using that film number, and 5,782 results came up. The other films up to 443692 have also been extracted, but those after have not. In other towns I've looked at this is typical: extractions often go to about 1890, and not after that.

Some of the newer indexed records go later.

There are a lot of films that have not been extracted, of course. Considering that there are more than 100,000 rolls of microfilmed Mexican records, that is not surprising.

George Fulton

María de Ávila y Cristóbal de Medina

Does anyone have the ancestry of Cristobal de Medina?

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I wasn't aware there was a record of Cristóbal de Medina using Valdivia as
part of his name. That's interesting. I was looking at the dates and Cristóbal
de Medina married María de Ávila in 1666 and Luis de Medina Valdivia
married in 1614, it does seem possible he could be Luis's son.

Paige

Comentario

Does anyone have the ancestry of Cristobal de Medina? I was looking at
other Medina's in my tree and was curious if there is a connection between
Cristóbal de Medina and Luis de Medina Valdivia who married María de
Siordia? Could he be their son?

Paige

Comentario

Hi Paige,

I would say Cristóbal de Medina is probably related to Luis de Medina Valdivia in some way, I'm just not exactly sure how. On the IM of Cristóbal de Medina's son Don Diego de Medina y Lomas he's listed as Don Cristóbal de Medina y Valdivia: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12149-60873-6?cc=1502404&w…

On the marriage of his son Juan de Medina, the scribe appears to write in Altuna after Medina for both Juan and Cristóbal de Medina, which may be another clue to his ancestry:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30254-64?cc=1502404&…

Unfortunately, without an actual record listing his parents, we can't know for sure. Maybe someone else in the forum has more information.
Chris

Familia Colores

Buen día a todos,

Estoy buscando la geneologia de la Familia Colores, mi bisabuelo fue Mariano Colores se que residió en Zacatecas Ojo Caliente entre los años 1,900 a 1,910, agradecería mucho su apoyo en aportar información sobre este apellido.

Muchas Gracias!!

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Need help finding Benito Torres (1864) and Felipa Rodarte marriage certificate

I would truly appreciate any help in finding Benito Torres and Felipa Rodarte marriage certificate. Benito Torres (1864) and Felipa Rodarte (1861).

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Comentario

well first i searched up their names on familysearch. then i went to https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=MEXICO.
i clicked and pen a new tab fr the zacatecas and jalisco collections and then check the villanueva and santa maria de los angeles sections and looked in the baptism records for those specfic years.

Lopez de la Serda (Cerda)

For my fellow genealogists:
Maria de Islas y Sotomayor indicated in her will dated 8 Feb1713 that she and her late husband Agustin Lopez de la Cerda had five children(Felix Juan el mayor, Juan el meno

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Hi Mary Lou

I have Antonio Lopez de la Cerda as 'hijo de padres no conocidos' based on the marriage record for Antonio Lopez and Josefa Ruiz de Esparza (aka Alonso de los Hinojos) daughter of Jose Alonso de los Hinojos and Teresa Ruiz de Esparza. This Antonio Lopez de la Cerda is "originario y vecino de Teocaltiche"The marriage record is found at (3rd on the left): https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30346-59?cc=1502404

Also, the marriage record of Juan Lopez de la Cerda and Ana Maria Munoz de la Barba is at (1st on left): https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18622-36042-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

Thanks for the information for Esteban Lopez de la Cerda and also for the parents of Rosa Maria and Josefa Ramirez de Hermosillo.

Austin

Francisco Jauregui's two Daughters

Wondering if any one has taken a look at this dispensa. It's for Francisco's daughters Maria Jauregui, and Cathalina Chaves. It's very long

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Lisa

This is a request for 'dispensa de banas', actually it is two dispensas. The first (images 249-257) is the marriage dispensation for Luis de Carvajal and Catalina de Chavez and the second is for Juan Sanchez de Paez and Maria de Jauregui. It appears that their father Juan Francisco de Jauregui is opposed to his daughters pending marriages. If I read this correctly Juan Francisco, As described by one of the witnesses, is wreakless and fearless "...es un hombre de terrible y grande condicion y temerario y que sabe que a tirado y tira acabarar los matrimonios de sus hijas" and the fact that one daughter just gave birth and the other pregnant and close to "full term" seems to have set-off Juan Francisco and either he caused that the two grooms be jailed in Mexticacan or the two ran off and later were apprehended by the Mexticacan official (regidor) either way they escaped from jail and sought sanctuary in the Mexticacan parrish church.

The handwriting for the most part was difficult for me to read but from what I could make out there isn't any genealogical info. that helps add to the Jauregui ancestry.

Austin

El Sagrario -Aguascalientes

Hola Members , I am researching a Maria Fermina Munoz -daughter of Herculano Munoz and Tiburcia Jimenez.

Maria Fermina Munoz born 08 of July 1908 in Aguascalientes ,Aguascalientes .

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Comentario

Hi Ronnie

you have to search in the church Asunción de María (Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes)

Mexico, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church Records are available online, click here.
Microfilm de manuscritos en Aguascalientes

La parroquia también es denominada El Sagrario y Catedral-Basílica de la Asunción de María.

Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths from the city of Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. Text in Spanish. Include indexes.
Incluye registros de las auxiliares de Cañada Honda, Palo Alto y Santa María.
Algunos tomos incluyen índice

hope it helps :)

Julieta Martha

----Message d'origine----
De : chilerey@msn.com
Date : 23/06/2015 - 00:29 ()
À : research@nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] El Sagrario -Aguascalientes

Hola Members , I am researching a Maria Fermina Munoz -daughter of Herculano Munoz and Tiburcia Jimenez.

Maria Fermina Munoz born 08 of July 1908 in Aguascalientes ,Aguascalientes . Maria Fermina 's baptismal date is 19 of July in El Sagrario in Aguascalientes.

The problem is either I am slow or I am not looking in the right spot , I can't find El Sagrario -Aguascalientes in order to search for records.

I have been looking at Family Search Records -Church and Civil with no luck. Does anybody know where to look for El Sagrario -Aguascalientes or Civil Records.

I base my dates on a copy of a baptismal record of El Sagrario but I can't find them in the Familysearch web

Thank you for your time

Ronnie Reynoso

Comentario

Thanks
Ronnie

________________________________________
From: Research on behalf of julievalens@bluewin.ch
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:49 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] El Sagrario -Aguascalientes

Hi Ronnie

you have to search in the church Asunción de María (Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes)

Mexico, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church Records are available online, click here.
Microfilm de manuscritos en Aguascalientes

La parroquia también es denominada El Sagrario y Catedral-Basílica de la Asunción de María.

Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths from the city of Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. Text in Spanish. Include indexes.
Incluye registros de las auxiliares de Cañada Honda, Palo Alto y Santa María.
Algunos tomos incluyen índice

hope it helps :)

Julieta Martha

----Message d'origine----
De : chilerey@msn.com
Date : 23/06/2015 - 00:29 ()
À : research@nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] El Sagrario -Aguascalientes

Hola Members , I am researching a Maria Fermina Munoz -daughter of Herculano Munoz and Tiburcia Jimenez.

Maria Fermina Munoz born 08 of July 1908 in Aguascalientes ,Aguascalientes . Maria Fermina 's baptismal date is 19 of July in El Sagrario in Aguascalientes.

The problem is either I am slow or I am not looking in the right spot , I can't find El Sagrario -Aguascalientes in order to search for records.

I have been looking at Family Search Records -Church and Civil with no luck. Does anybody know where to look for El Sagrario -Aguascalientes or Civil Records.

I base my dates on a copy of a baptismal record of El Sagrario but I can't find them in the Familysearch web

Thank you for your time

Ronnie Reynoso

Familias que emigraron a Coahuila

Estimados miembros de NR,

Investigando mis antepasados Hernandez en Coahuila, el ultimo registro que tengo es el del siguiente matrimonio con fecha del 25/Sep/1818 en Parras, Coahuila:

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Comentario

Hola Bernardo

Encontre en FamilySearch el matrimonio de Jose Cosme Garcia y Maria Martina Moran casados en 12 julio 1789 en Aguascalientes.
<"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11584-152198-75?cc=1502404… : accessed 05 Nov 2014), Aguascalientes > Asunción de María > Matrimonios 1782-1791 > image 453 of 572; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes [Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes].>

Entre otro hijos tambien tuvieron Maria de Jesus que fue bautizada 17 junio 1796 en la villa de la Encarnacion (muy cercas de Aguascalientes).
<"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18524-8929-32?cc=1874591&wc=… : accessed 05 Nov 2014), Encarnación de Díaz > La Encarnación > Bautismos 1778-1802 > image 396 of 660; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco [Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco].>

Austin Perez

Comentario

Austin,

Muchas gracias por la información!

Creeme que busque en familysearch mas debí haber hecho mal la consulta pues no encontré nada.

Me has ahorrado mucho tiempo de búsqueda.

De nuevo gracias y que estes bien.

Saludos,

Bernardo Menchaca

BERNARDO MENCHACA

Comentario

Austin,

Aún y cuando en el registro de matrimonio de Aguascalientes el apellido aparece como Moran y en el de Coahuila como Morales, bien podría ser la misma persona. Ya me ha tocado ver cambios y errores en los registros.

Saludos,

BERNARDO MENCHACA

Comentario

Yes, Parras means Vines,as in grape vines. Every year in August they have a Grapes and Wine Fair and some of the festivities take place at Casa Madero. They also make a lot of denim and denim clothes (such as Dickies) in the town.
Parras is just north of the State of Zacatecas.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Cosme Garcia se volvio a casar en Parras, Coahuila, el 11/jul/1819. Se menciona en el registro y en su informacion matrimonial que Martina Moran, de la cual enviudo, murio en Aguascalientes en 1808.

Encontre el registro del entierro de Martina, de fecha 12/jun/1808.

Bernardo Menchaca

Enlaces to research

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Almirante (Admiral) Juan Esteban De Ubilla

I am reading in the PARS website about the viaje to Mexico en 1712 by Juan Olivan De Rebolledo. I was interested in this word "Admirante" which then later found out it means "Admiral"

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Pre-1663 Matrimonios

I find a FamilySearch reference to a marriage in 1654 in Aguascalientes. Here is the link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHP1-LBC

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Comentario

The number of the film 299421 (you can see it at the bottom of the reference record in your link) belongs to the first book of the "Bautismos" not the "Matrimonios", in many places, the records are mix in the earliest books, is not uncommon to find all type of records within a single book, (marriages, christenings, confirmations, deaths) you are lucky in this case since they were indexed, I've seen books where only the christenings were indexed and thus the rest of the information would never come on the searches. same goes to the oldest books for Marriages and Deaths containing other type of records.

Comentario

Hi Paige,

Occasionally, it will be mentioned in the marriage record, but, often times you will have to consult the Información matrimonial to know for sure. I personally believe that my 9th Great Grandfather Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor was married twice, but, there's no IM to prove it definitively.

One example where a previous marriage is not disclosed is my 8th Great Grandfather Nicolás Gómez García (hijo de Antonio Gómez García and Francisca Flores de la Torre) that married my 8th Great Grandmother Catalina de Chávez (hija de Diego de Chávez Fragoso and María Ramírez).

If you look at the marriage of Nicolás Gómez Garcia and Catalina de Chávez there's no mention of a previous marriage: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-13029-91726-97?cc=1502404&…

But if you look at the IM of Nicolás Gómez Garcia and Catalina de Chávez, you can see he's clearly listed as viudo de Catalina de Robalcava: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12875-60437-69?cc=1502404&…

Chris

Parentage of Ana Francisca Gabadí (Gabay)

The line I am researching is documented through Ana Francisca Gabadí (marriage of her daughter Lorensa in 1623 and birth of her son Bernabé in 1618) or Gabay (from her burial record in 1652).

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Comentario

Hi Lawrence

I was skimming through one of the sources for which I provided a link in my previous comment (the description of Martin Cortes conspiracy) and came across the following:
(there are a lot of mistakes because its an old text someone scanned in)
____

11 de Abril. La audiencia manda soltar en fiado á Diego
Arias, que está preso en las casas del tesorero D. Hernando de
Portugal, por los sesenta dias primeros siguientes.

30 de Mayo. A petición del procurador de Diego Arias, se le
proroga por sesenta dias mas la soltura en fiado, para que acabe
de convalecer de sus enfermedades en Michoacán, donde está con
su muger e hijos.

30 de Julio. Segunda próroga por otros sesenta dias en favor
de Diego Arias.

____

It mentions that his wife (by that time - 1566 - he is married to Dona Maria Tramuel, mentioned earlier in the text) and his children are in Michoacan.
If he lived there with his second wife, perhaps he also lived there with his first wife, Leonor? Earlier in the text it is mentioned that Diegos encomiendo is there in the province of Michoacan, pueblos of Tarinbaro. Perhaps Petronila was born there?

Also, a third Sotelo brother is mention: Gaspar. The text also mentions the names of Baltasar Sotelos parents:
__________

dixo
que este confesante es baltasar de sotelo hijo de antonio de sotelo
capitán que fué de gente de armas por su magestad natural de la
ciudad de Qamora e de usenda nuñez hija de pero nufiez vela na-
tural de cuellar e que este confesante nació en aldea de palo junto
á la dicha cibdad de Qamora e que es de hedad de quarenta e cin-
co años poco mas o menos e que a veinte e quatro años que pasó
de los reynos de castilla a las provincias del perú en el tienpo que...
___________

I dont know if Baltasar and Diego had the same mother, but at least the info on the father would be reliable...

Regards,
Denise
ps thanks for writing in, I have this text in a doc since before Christmas but hadnt had time to read it. Your post made me pull it up and read it!

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Hello everybody !

I just found a document that promises to be very interesting but that is very hard to read, so I´m here begging for help !!!

The document is from around 1560 and is located in the Arquidiocesis of Morelia , Mexico, Michoacan Catholic Church Records 1555-1599; información matrimonial y actas diversas 1555-1599.

It starts :

"Sepan cuantos esta carta vieren, como NOS Diego Arias de Sotelo vecino de la cibdad de ....."

In the end of the 24th and 25th line I can read :
"........e con los pueblos"
" e indios a NOS encomendados......"

There may be some important information about this ancestor of so many "Alteños" so I hope somebody with better skills than mine to read these old characters will give a hand.

I´m really intrigued by the fact tha Don Diego uses the word "NOS" instead of "YO" , I thought that only Bishops used that word to refer to themselves.

I´ll try to read what I can and will post here if I have some succes.

Regards

Carlos A. Peredo

Comentario

Hi carlos
The number 55 appears at the top of the page of image 20 where the document starts. The document ends on image 21 and a new entry starts just below it and continues on image 22 on the left side. On the right side another entry starts and at the top there is the number 56. I am thinking that these numbers refer to the years 1555 and 1556, before he married maria manuel portugal.
I also think it says "vecino de la ciudad de mexico". If so, this is a good lead to where to look for records related to his children with leonor.

Regards,
Denise

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Hello Denise , good morning !

Here I write some of the things I seem to "read" line by line with spaces in the places of words I don´t understand :

"Sepan cuantos estas carta vieren como nos Diego Arias
de Sotelo vecino de la Cibdad d de .....e Juan Pavlo e Antón de
Silva e Domingo de Medina e Gonzalo Gómez (ó Ponce?)vecinos ....
..... de la cibdad de Mechuacan otorgamos ...... ...
por esta presente carta ........ e otorgamos todo cuio poder
cumpliere aser e servicio ..... ...... .... nos avemos e
tenemos ................cunplidamente lo po-
demos e devemos ...... otorgarselo a vos .........
e a Gonzalo Ruíz e a Juan Velazcos de Salazar vezinos de la cib-
dad de Mexico todos ausentes como si fuesedes presentes a vos
en junta e a cada uno de vos .......... especial-
mente ................ fuereles ........................
de los pueblos a nos encomendados .....................
.... de los tributos que nos dan................
panscuaro ...........mechuacan ......" (line 15)

Then I can only read one or two words till line 20 :

" extremos e tenemos e esperamos ..... tener e mover ..."

then I jump to line 24 :
"... e tener e mover contra nos .... e los dichos pueblos
e indios a nos encomendados .......... movidos

then till line 27 where I only read :
"..... ante su magestad....ante los jueces ...."
e oidores de su real consejo de indias e ante su visorey
aquí presente e oidores de su muy consejo de esta nueva
españa e ante los cuales dichos sus jueces ..........
............ pueda e devan ........res-
ponder , negar e contestar e razonar ........
.......... e juicios e alegar ....

The next page is even more difficult to read and in the final page in the end of line 3 I think I read :

"................................... de lo cual lo otorga-
mos ante dorante escrivano ...........
...................en la cibdad de mechuacan a 7
días del mes de marzo año de el ........ de nuestro sal-
vador Iesu .... de mil e .... e (quinientos?) e (cincuenta?) e cinco años ...
.................. firman (Fernán?) Rodríguez e Pedro ...
e Pedro de ..... e Nicolás Ruíz e Juan Pérez e ....
esta dicha cibdad e lo firmamos de cuios nos tres-
se regydores .... aquí doy fee conozco a los
dichos otorgantes .........................
.................a Juan Velazquez de Salazar e a Gon-
zalo Ruíz .............. Gonzalo Ruíz y
a Diego Arias de Sotelo.........

In the center of the page we can see the elegant sinature of Don Diego Arias de Sotelo and next to it that of Antón Silva.

So far is what I "read" or "imagine" to read.

I´m feeling that in the end there´s not much in this document but is a good excercise to develop our skills in paleography.

I really hope some of our fellow "alteños" give a try and surely they will see some of the words that I couldn´t and complete a better part of this document.

Regards

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Regarding the date I thougth I read and mentioned in my last post, hereby I confirm: it is what is writen because I just saw image 23 and we can see the way they used to write "quinientos" and "cincuenta" and those two "signs" are the same that are used in Diego Arias de Sotelo´s document

Comentario

Thanks Carlos for posting what you get from this doc...you are right that it can be a good execise inpaleography. I am looking forward to next weekend when I will have time to compare your transcription with the image, hopefully it will help me improve my skills, as i am still very much a beginner!

Regards,
Denise
Ps looking at records from 1550s mexico city about once a week...came across multiple entries of don fernando portugal as padrino, and one with baltasar sotelo as padrino, probably diego's brother, in the same book where Ana sotelo's baptism was found. But no smoking gun on petronila!

Comentario

Hi Lawrence

George is right that the only recent definitive information is the marriage dispensation. He also mentions (in an email in Ancestry.com.au) that in the Codex Chimalpahin there is a reference to children of Diego Sotela and Leonor Valderrama, other than the known ones (mentioned in Chipman's book, which you are reading and which I have also read). Diego was accused and tried and found guilty of conspiring against the Crown. He was banished to a place called Oran in North Africa. His brother was executed. This conspiracy is discussed in Chipman - remember to check the footnotes!

At some point during this controversy or perhaps before it, Leonor must have died, because when Diego was banished, one of the sons took over the encomienda as his inheritance, whereupon the other son sued him. If Petronila was the daughter of Diego and Leonor, let's say the youngest, its not suprising that she is not mentioned in the subsequent lawsuits. If she was born around 1560, she'd have been around 10 years or younger, and with brothers who were not interested in sharing with her. Their only responsibility toward her would have been to arrange a suitable marriage and give her a dowry. Assuming she was married before 1593, that might explain why there was a three part settlement and not a four part settlement of the inheritance issue in 1593.(The third party was their sister Ana, who was a nun). My point with this is that we don't have to rule out the possibility that Petronila was the child of Leonor and Diego. Its still a line of research worth pursuing.

http://www.amazon.com/Codex-Chimalpahin-Vol-Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco/dp/…
Above is a link to the translation of Codex Chimalpahin, available through amazon, if you are so inclined to read it, or perhaps your local library can get hold of it...

http://www.archive.org/stream/noticiahistrica00berrgoog/noticiahistrica…
And above is a link to a text about the conspiracy (in Spanish) where there is a section devoted to the Sotelo brothers, if you want to read more about that.

Regards
Denise

Comentario

Lawrence

Like you, I spent a considerable amount of time looking at this family. I got so frustrated with the lack of sources in all the internet posted genealogies that I was starting to think that Martin Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma did not exist.

I eventually located a copy of Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales which has an excerpt from the dispensation requested by Bartholome Rodrigues Baxo (or Bajo). The dispensation request was because of the relationship between his first wife and second wife to be. They both descend from Martin Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma, but through different daughters.

This document clearly identifies the daughters of Martin and Petronila. Thanks to Claudia Reynoso's (& colleagues'!) work on the Guadalajara dispensations the document is readily locatable. Claudia's index is at http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/11/1700-1705-fhl-source-film-1…

It is images 316-24 for the dispensations for 1700-1705, film 168605. It is online at Family Search (Jalisco Church Records -> Guadalajara -> Diocese of Guadalajara -> Matrimonios 1700-05).

There may be other documents, but I have not seen them. Perhaps someone knows what they are, and can help?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

(After 2½ years ...) I have read carefully the dispensa requested by Bartholome Rodrígues Baxo for his marriage to Thomasa de la Rosa Ulloa, based upon the 'cuarto grado de afinidad' between Thomasa and Bartholome's first wife, Theresa Ponze. After constructing the lineage given by two of the testigos in the dispensa, it now seems clear that the two daughters of Martín Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma referred to are María and Ana Francisca Gabay. That would certainly seem to establish definitively the connection to the line I am working on (that of Ana Francisca) of Martín Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma, wouldn't it?

I have three questions about those lines established by the dispensa, however: (1) who is the spouse of María Gabay; (2) who is the 'Juana' referred to in the dispensa, given as the wife of Lorenso Ruís de Esparsa; and finally, (3) who is the apparent daughter of Lorenso Ruís de Esparsa and the above-named Juana who married Nicolás Ponze, father of Bartholome's second wife, Theresa Ponze?

I have not been able to discover the answers to those questions during the past several days of research. All of the other relationships are now well-documented.

Lawrence Bouett
Moraga, California

P.S.: Funny; as soon as I posted this, I found the answer to question 2, above: She is Juana de la Cruz; her name is given in the burial record of Nicolás Ponze from 22 December 1742 in Aguascalientes.

Comentario

Hello Lawrence,

Maria de Gabai Ruiz de Esparza is married to Nicolas Ulloa they were married c. 1630 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. He is the son of Alonso Ulloa and Juana Munoz de Jerez. Maria was born c. 1613

I descend from Bartholomew Rodriguez Bajo and thomassina de la Rosa Ulloa.

R A Ricci

Salado/Esparza (corrected)

Rose,

Thanks for the information. Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza, alias Bernardo Salado, was indeed a legitimate son of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I have lots of documentation to prove that. Attached you will find excerpts of his final will and testament, which reads as follows:

Comentarios

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz

amigo juan francisco solo encontre el matrimonio de capitan juan de escobedo y teresa de ulloa matrimonio 6 de enero 1669 en teocaltiche jalisco (imagen 126 en familysearch)y solo vienen los padres de ella que son teresa de ulloa hija legitima de nicolas ulloa y maria ruiz de esparza .hay muchas publicaciones de esta pareja donde mencionan que maria ruiz de esparza es hija de lope ruiz de esparza y ana franca gabai navarro moctezuma aun no eh tenido la documentacion para probar este linaje.

otro punto encontrer la mencion de un testamento de una pareja que son capitan francisco de escobedo que fallecio el 24 abril 1647 en zacatecas y su mujer maria de covarrubias fallecio en 16 octubre 1646 en zacatecas
donde tambien hace mencion de sus hijos que son:
maria de covarrubias, ana escobedo, francisca covarrubias, juan de escobedo, isabel de rodas, antonio de covarrubias y francisco de escobedo.

en este link se hace mencion del testamento
www.monteescobedo.gob.mx/archivos/1398217537.pdf

pero no e checado esta ultima informacion
espero y te ayude
que tengas un excelenet dia
estamos en contacto

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz

buenos dias a todos

checa esta pagina que encontrer se mencionan varias generaciones de juan de escobedo hasta hay una coneccion con la nobleza de españa con el rey alfonso lX segun esta pagina

http://www.geni.com/people/Juan-de-Escobedo/6000000005392198353

esta muy interesante
espero y te ayude

EXCELENTE DIA

Comentario

Gracias Ya vi que desciendo por parte de Francisco de Escobedo y
Cobarrubias, Teresa Ruiz de Esparza era la esposa de Juan de Escobedo, lo
que no se si era del Juan de Escobedo el Viejo o el mozo. Todo esto en
Monte Escobedo Zacatecas, en los archivos antiguos he visto varias personas
con ese apellido pero no se que tan difundido este, ya que me he enfocado
solo a los Sanchez-Castellanos.

Saludos.

El 4 de julio de 2014, 10:26, escribió:

> Edgar Olguin Diaz
>
> buenos dias a todos
>
> checa esta pagina que encontrer se mencionan varias generaciones de juan
> de escobedo hasta hay una coneccion con la nobleza de españa con el rey
> alfonso lX segun esta pagina
> http://www.geni.com/people/Juan-de-Escobedo/6000000005392198353
>
> esta muy interesante
> espero y te ayude
>
> EXCELENTE DIA
>

Comentario

Alguna persona del foro tendra entre sus datos a Antonio Ruiz de Ulloa que vivio en Mezquitic y Monte Escobedo a proncipios de 1700s?

El 30 de Junio de 1736 hay una dispensa matrimonial dentre Mathias Ruiz de Navrrete y Francisca de Escobedo Avila en tercer grado.

El asunto es que los Escobedo esta emparentados con los Ruiz de Esparza ya que en 1669 se casa Teresa de Ulloa (aka Teresa Ruiz de Esparza, Hija de Nicolas de Ulloa y Maria Ruiz de Esparza) y en la dispensa ponen a Mathias con consanguinidad de tercer grado y su padre se hace nombrar como Antonio Ruiz de Ulloa lo que me hace suponer que Antonio y Teresa fueron hermanos.

Alguien tendra los hijos de la pareja de Nicolas de Ulloa y Maria Ruiz de Esparza?

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz

buenos dias a todos

una pregunta donde puedo encontrar este testamento de bernardo ruiz de esparza?

o alguien que me podria pasar el link de la pagina?

se los agradeceria mucho

gracias por su atencion prestada

excelnete dia a todos

Comentario

Rose,

This is a correction for the date quoted in my previous email. The final will and testament of Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza is an official document signed by the "escribano" on 18 July 1695. The "papel sellado" reads:

"Sello Tercero, Un Real, Años de Mil Seiscientos y Noventa, y Noventa y Uno."

Sorry about the mistake...

Bill

Comentario

Hi Rose,

Bernabé Ruiz de Esparza was another son of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. He was the second youngest of the siblings, born in 1618. He died 21 October 1662, some thirty-four years before Bernardo passed away. Both Bernardo and Bernabé were legitimate sons of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Anna Francisca Gabai Navarro de Moctezuma. As far as I know, Lope and Francisca had the following children:

1. Salvador Ruiz de Esparza (1595-1680). Married María de Vielma abt. 1618.
2. Anna Thomasina Ruiz de Esparza (1597-1646). Married Francisco Sanchez de Montes de Oca in 1618.
3. Martín Ruiz de Esparza (1600-16??). Married María Lopez de Elizalde abt. 1625.
4. Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (1602-1690). Married Luis Tiscareño de Molina y Marquez in 1623.
5. Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza (1604-1679). Married Juana Lopez de Elizalde abt. 1629.
6. Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza (1608-1696). Married Catalina Lozano de Frias in 1634.
7. Pedro Ruiz de Esparza (1611-16??). Married 1) Juana Lozano in 1636 and 2) Margarita Gonzales in 1688.
8. María Ruiz de Esparza (1613-16??). Married Nicolas de Ulloa abt. 1630.
9. Christobal Ruiz de Esparza (1616-1672). Married 1) Maria Isabel Alcaraz in 1646 and 2) Margarita de Lara abt. 1670. He also had a daughter Antonia from a spouseless relationship.
10. Bernabé Ruiz de Esparza (1618-1662). Married Anna Ortiz in 1643.
11. Lorenzo Ruiz de Esparza (1620-1693). Married 1) Antonia de Castilla in 1647 and 2) Josepha de Sandi y Aguilar in 1677.

Neither of them was adopted. I guess the "nickname" or "alias" SALADO was given to him and at least three generations of his descendants in order to honor some distinguished member of the family. The only "real" Bernardo Salado I have been able to find was married to Joana de Siordia, a first cousin of Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza. I mentioned him in an earlier email. All the others should have the surname Ruiz de Esparza, "alias Salado".

I sent a special email to historian Mariano Gonzalez-Leal asking him for his input on this matter, but so far I have not received an answer. Hopefuly he can shed some light on this obscure subject.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: hardyr
To: Bill Figueroa
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: More questions [Nuestros Ranchos] Salado/Esparza

Wow...Bill this even raises more questions.....was Bernabe Ruiz de Esparza another son of Lopes's or Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza/Salado is one and the same and married twice? I'm wondering if Lope adopted Bernardo or had a fling with a Salado...and years later become legitimized? I'm really curious about the obtaining copies of wills and where to find them thru the Family History Center.

Thanks for your info

Rose

Comentario

I realize this is an old thread, but I just came across this data:

Burial Record: Christoval Ruis de Esparza - 23 Feb 1718.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-148508-75?cc=1502404…

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Burial Record: Christoval Salado - 30 Nov 1718.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-146414-66?cc=1502404…

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Could there actually be two Antonia Alvarado's each married to a Christoval?

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola

una pregunta
en esta informacion que publicas mencionas que maria lopez de elizalde esta casada con martin ruiz de esparza y que juana lopez de elizalde casada con jacinto ruiz de esparza.

en una dispensa de 1753 de ignacio ruiz de esparza y lorenza lopez de la cerda vuida de diego delgado se mencionan varias lineas genealogicas en el cual este documento se hace mencion que juana lopez de elizalde madre de jacinto ruiz de esparza y nicolas lopez de elizalde esposo de regina alvarado padres de nicolasa lopez , donde juana lopez de elizalde y nicolas lopez de elizalde son hermanos.no tengo los documento donde se mencionen los padres de nicolas pero tengo el testamento de juana lopez de elizalde esposa de jacinto ruiz de esparza donde se mencionan que es hija lejitima de juan de luevana y maria lopez de elizalde.

LA PREGUNTA ES TIENE INFORMACION DE LOS PADRES DE NICOLAS LOPEZ DE ELIZALDE?

ES CIERTA ESTA INFORMACION QUE ENCONTRER?

TE LO AGRADECERIA MUCHO
GRACIA POR LA ATENCION PRESTADA

QUE TENGAS UN EXCELENTE DIA

Comentario

Up and running on my end

-----Original Message-----
From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf
Of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 22:14
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is Family Search website down or can you
update me since I cannot access it.

surname Cocolan

does anyone have any information on Cocolan last name anything will help thanks

Comentarios

Comentario

I found several Cocolans in Mexico in the FREE FamilySearch. Org. The website is

https://familysearch.org/search

Just enter the Surname Cocolan and the place as Mexico and / or the State, Mexico and it'll will give you several individuals. You can narrow the search by entering first middle names, dates, spouse, and/or parents.

Good luck in your search!

Joseph de Leon

Photos of Zacatecas, Aguascalientes and other year 1864

Old photographs year 1864 (during the time Mexican/French War)

Scroll to bottom and you will see a number of old photographs of Zacatecas and Aguascalientes:

Comentarios

Introducing myself

Hello, my name is Rayna Babette Allen. My great-grandmother, Pascuala Aceves, was born in Sayula, Jalisco in 1854 and moved to California when she was about 16 years old.

Interesting link from French Archive for maps