Dr.mt

Mulatta from Spain?

Published by robros12 –
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Genealogy Research

Hello,

Comentarios

Comentario

I noticed this thread regarding my ancestors Francisco de Acosta Esqueda
and Ana Maria from Coria Spain. They are the parents of my Ines de
Esqueda. This thread talks about Mulatos and slavery in Spain, my question
is, did they really have slavery in Spain. Also, if a parent is a slave,
does that mean the child is a slave?

Paige

Comentario

They most certainly had slavery in Spain. During times of war, any enemies
that were captured could be sentenced to a life of slavery. Slaves could be
from enemy countries, especially from adjacent countries such as Morroco,
Algeria or any part of North Africa, even from European countries.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Paige Herrera
wrote:

> I noticed this thread regarding my ancestors Francisco de Acosta Esqueda
> and Ana Maria from Coria Spain. They are the parents of my Ines de
> Esqueda. This thread talks about Mulatos and slavery in Spain, my question
> is, did they really have slavery in Spain. Also, if a parent is a slave,
> does that mean the child is a slave?
>
> Paige

Comentario

Hi Paige,

Regarding the last question, generally, the condition of the mother determines the condition of the child, so, if the mother is free, the child is free, and, if the mother is a slave, the child is a slave.

If you're questioning, specifically, about Anna Maria, I don't believe she was a slave, and, I'm also not sure she was originally from Coria, Spain. Their son, the younger Francisco de Acosta Esqueda is the one that lists both parents from Coria, Spain, in his Testamento, but, there is a record (see below) of the older Francisco de Acosta Esqueda and Anna Maria being married in Aguascalientes, which would suggest that he met Anna Maria in Aguascalientes. Although, below that is a record of their child Lorenzo being born two years before his parents marriage. That record originally made me think the couple was married in Spain and the other ceremony was just a veiling, but, it doesn't appear that way from the document.

Francisco de Acosta Esqueda and Anna Maria marriage in Aguascalientes 10 Mar 1627:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52325-19?cc=1502404&…

Lorenzo de Esqueda, baptism two years before the parents marriage in 1625:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-53483-6?cc=1502404&w…

There does appear to be some questions regarding this family, but, I'm not sure of the answer. But, regarding slavery in Spain, Alicia is right, slavery did exist, for both African Slaves and for Moors from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. Spain originally imported their own slaves but were eventually forced out of the slave trade in the middle of the 16th century in favor of Portugal. After that, Spain had to obtain slaves through other countries. A Papal decree in the 15th century also allowed for the enslavement of any non Christian. If Anna Maria were a slave or child of a slave, her being a Moor could make sense, especially, since there were restrictions placed on the importation of regular African slaves to Spain during the beginning of the 17th century, which caused an increase in the slavery of Moors. The slavery of Moors continued until it was outlawed around 1646.

Christopher de Cuellar

Comentario

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
It could be a mulatto from Spain. In Spain, they also had and owned slaves, some of them were African slaves, others could be prisoners who had been designated as slaves and the prisoners could be from other countries as well, India, north African countries and even European countries. If they committed a crime and they were incarcerated, their sentence could be to serve as a slave.

Comentario

Yes RJ, I do plan on checking documents. I am studying for a year in England, and I plan in staying in Spain for a bit, at least for our break. I recently discovered the ancestry of my Olmos (originally del Olmo) lineage from Nochistlan. With the help of my prima Alicia Avelar Olmos (also member of Nuestros Ranchos) who is my grandmothers first cousin, we traced our Olmos family to Puebla, then to Mexico City, and then finally to Almodovar del Campo in Spain. I have been in contact with people from Almodovar del Campo who are willing to help me find more information on my del Olmo family. There is are still many Olmos and del Olmo in ALmodovar del Campo.

Let me share what we found:

Miguel Sanchez del Olmo m. Maria Rodriguez (Almodovar del Campo, Spain), they had Pedro del Olmo. I found this couple in "Pares" where they are mentioned as parents of Pedro del Olmo on a "proceso de Fe." I have suspision that they are parents of Pedro, since a grandson in Mexico would use the surname Sanchez del Olmo.

Pedro del Olmo m. Maria Diaz (Almodovar del Campo, Spain) they had Hernando del Olmo in Almodovar del Campo).

Hernando del Olmo m. Beatriz Tellez-Giron (daug. of Julian Tellez-Giron and Ines de Cervantes) in Mexico City on 06 June 1599. They had Pedro del Olmo. Julian Tellez-Giron might be a descendant of the noble family Tellez-Giron as mentioned in Rebecca Horn's book "Postconquest Coyoacan: Nahua-Spanish Relations in Central Mexico, 1519-1650," where she mentions three brothers Cristobal, Julian and Andres. They are, according to Rebecca Horn, sons of el Licenciado Tellez-Giron a Lawyer and a nobleman. I have a strong feeling that this is my ancestor Julian because he lived during this time, and one of his brothers as mentioned in the book, Cristobal, married a Cervantes too. Cristobal married Juana de Cervantes, they had Bartolome Tellez-Giron. So, this makes me think that two brothers married two cousins or sisters Cervantes. I need more info though to confirm this. I am going to look for Julian and Ines' marriage record in Mexico City.

Pedro del Olmo m. Ysabel Ximenes (native of Cuidad de los Angeles (Prob Puebla). They had Lorenzo del Olmo in Huejotzingo, Puebla, México on 01 Dec 1643.

Lorenzo del Olmo married Juana de los Santos (daugh. of Nicolas de los Santos and Maria Diaz) on 22 de mayo 1673 in Aguascalientes, Mexico. They had Ygnacio de Olmos chris on October 4, 1684 Teocaltiche, Jal.

Ygnacio de Olmos m. Antonia Sanchez de Amador (d. Joseph Sanchez y Maria Gonzalez) around 07 Apr 1706 in Aguascalientes, Mexico.

So, yeah this is pretty much what we found. Hope it helps others who descend from los Olmos!

Thanks RJ!

Comentario

Is really nice once one can jump the "Atlantic paddle" on genealogy. I remember a couple of my ancestor's siblings married some family De Olmos from Etzatlán, likely coming from Zacatecas too, rare last name in my hometown though. La Mancha is also where my earliest ancestors came from (paternal side), quite a place. Good luck with your research!

RJ Quiralta

Comentario

Thank you very much RJ!
I will try to check Coria for more information. I am going to Spain at the end of this year and I will definitely try to visit Coria. I plan on going to various cities to find out a bit more about certain ancestors. I also believe that Francisco did not know the origin of his mother. I also think that his father might've brought her mulatta wife (either of African or moorish descent) from Spain. They then married in Aguascalientes where they later had Francisco de Esqueda.

Thank you very much!
Sincerley,
Roberto Rosales V

Comentario

The term mulatto was overused and unless you really know the parents ethnicity its quite difficult to state what kind of mulatto they refer to. The word denotes a mix person usually but not necessarily of darker skin tone, in Mexico lots of mestizos where named mulatto, the term also was given to people of Moorish/Arab ancestry, to some Jews, (all of them converted generations earlier obviously) and to "true" mulattoes too. Thus a "Spanish born mulatto" is by no means impossible in this time period, but their true ethnicity is often difficult if not impossible to determinate.

In this specific case there is also a tiny possibility that Francisco de Esqueda didn't know his mother true origins, thus pairing Her birthplace with His Dad's, in either case the "casts" given often do not truly represent people's actual background, usually by putting together several siblings then we can have a slightly better idea of their origins.

Would be good to investigate the history of this period in Coria, it may throw a better light to it.

RJ Quiralte

Comentario

Katy, I inclined to believed that in this time period a Black-slave marriage with a Spanish was the least common, and since they where "property" I believe the documents always mention the "warning" since any children would be automatically property too (as awful as it sounds). I do think they where many mulattoes from African ancestry though, in the documents I had seen (Durango 1600's) they are mostly slaves, while the "free mulattoes" seems to have a different ethnicity, I am convinced these later ones where actually of Middle Eastern ancestry (or mix with) something that would never be mentioned on a Catholic record.

Definitely a interesting topic, the earliest film for Nombre de Dios, Durango, opened my eyes in many ways regarding the life of slaves in the 1600's in this zone, which was tide to Zacatecas and thus Nueva Galicia.

RJ Quiralte

Comentario

Por supuesto que llegaron Mulatos y Negros de España durante la conquista. Estos incluyeron tanto exclavos como individuos libres. Documentacion de estas llegadas la puedes consultar en PARES (http://pares.mcu.es), donde encontraras registros de mulatos libres los cuales viajaban como criados (no esclavos) acompañando a su patron. Sin embargo, existen exemplos individuos ( aveces junto con sus familia) viajando a America solos.

Por ejemplo, en 1573, existe el siguiente registro:
Título de la unidad: "Domingo de Zúñiga"
Archivo: Archivo General de Indias
Signatura: INDIFERENTE,2054,N.43

Alcance y Contenido:
Expediente de concesión de licencia para pasar a Guatemala a favor de Domingo de Zúñiga, mulato y libre, natural de la provincia de Guatemala.

Ocacionalmente las descripciones incluyen referencia al tono de la piel (e.g., Loros), y en otras ocaciones incluyen terminos que indican si el individuo nacio libre, o si adquirio su libertad.

Jaime R. Alvarado

Francisco Munos de Nava

Published by Jaime Alvarado –
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Genealogy Research

I got Francisco Munos de Nava married to Maria Gonzalez as the parents of two brothers (Juan Lopez and Andres Munos de Nava) who respectively married two sisters (Luisa Marques and Luisa de Tiscareno)

Comentarios

Comentario

Jaime,

Yes, it is the same Francisco Muñoz de Nava. He married María González abt.
1614 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco. Parents of María González were Pedro de
Huerta y Sánchez and María González de Rubalcava; her paternal grandparents
Pedro de Huerta and María Sánchez; her maternal grandparents Alonso González
de Rubalcaba and Beatriz López de Fuenllana. María used both her mother's
maiden name María Ganzález and her paternal grandmother's name María
Sánchez.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Bill,
Thanks for your prompt reply about the question of Francisco Munoz de Nava and Maria Sanchez\Gonzalez. With that information I have been able to tie a couple of loose ends of the amazing web of my Tiscareno-Ruiz de Esparza-Gonzalez de Hermosillo-Munos de Nava lines. Thanks also for the names of the grandparents of Maria Gonzalez.

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

Hello Jaime,

In reference to your question "...is Maria Gonzalez and Maria Sanchez the
same person?" Take a look at familysearch batch #F867689 sheet 042 Source
call #1396252 .... It shows Andres Munoz de Nava as son of Francisco Munoz
de Nava and Maria Sanchez .... Then Maria Sanchez as being the daughter of
Pedro de Huerta AND Maria Gonzales de Ruvalcaba!

Therefore it is quite possible that Maria Sanchez and Maria Gonzales are the
same person ... Of course without seeing the actual documentation it is just
conjecture, but it does seem plausible.

-Angelina-

Comentario

Hello Angelina,

After seeing your message, I tried to look for the source you mentioned "#F867689 sheet 042 Source call #1396252" in familysearch.org, but had no luck. I am trying to find a document that shows that Maria Sanchez is the daughter of Pedro de Huerta and Maria Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba just like you mentioned, and that document would really come in handy. So far, I have not found any document that shows this. Could you please guide me as to how I can find it in familysearch.org? I am probably doing something wrong. These are the steps that I am doing.

1)Going to the familysearch.org website
2)Click "Search" on top of the page
3) On the section that says "Restrict Records by" I click on Batch Number
4)I enter the Batch Number that you mention, F867689, and I get no results.

Comentario

Hello Jaime,

I found in "Somos Primos" Sept 2006 (I believe) an article (Descendants of
don Diego Alonso Ramirez de Pedroza) by John Inclan that states that Juan
Munos de Nava was married to Elvira Tiscareno. Then according to
familysearch batch #7516203 sheet 40 Source call #0884527 - she was also
daughter of Luis Ticareno de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. I don't
have any parents for this Juan Munos de Nava .... Could this have been a
third brother that married a third sister? Or could Elvira be one of your
Luisas? I believe John Inclan is part of this group, perhaps he can shed
light on this mystery.

-Angelina-

Torres Cabrera Searching for my lost family

Published by itzcoatzin –
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/871553256265734/

I created this group to look for my lost family my grandmas family.

Guillermo Torres
Luisa Cabrera

Comentarios

Comentario

Have you already tried checking the on-line digital images of Civil Registration Death Records and Catholic Church Records for Guadalajara, Mexico in Familysearch?

Comentario

I have check the census 1930
i dont know what church she was baptize and the civil records are hard to read.
I was hoping to find a Torres cabrera family connection in your family trees.

As far as i know mercede torres cabrera is from guadalajara as per my dads birth records.

Her parents i have no idea they tell me she was very white so her parents may be spanish but nor sure 100%.

Comentario

I checked Familysearch for Civil Registration Records for Guadalajara. The years 1912, 1913 and 1915 are missing. But there are many Catholic Church Records available for : Jesus, Nuestra Senora del Pilar, Purisima Concepcion, San Juan de Dios, Santuario de Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe, Santisima Trinidad, Sagrario Metropolitano,
San Jose de Analco, San Miguel de Espiritu Santo,. Cheer-up, there are another 7 churches that you don't have to check as those records don't cover the years you are researching. You can start on any of the listed churches & look for names in the margin -then learn to check just for the parents names in the body of the record. All the records start the same so find one that is fairly easy to read, print it up and review it so that you are familiar with the the style and where to find the names.
Tell me about your dad--send private e-mail if you prefer. You can reach me at:
morningglories@cox.net

Genealogy Conference in Aguascalientes

Published by makas_nc –
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Both Mickey Garcia and Maria Cortez sent me this info just minutes apart:

-----Original Message-----
From: nggs@nuevagalicia.org [mailto:nggs@nuevagalicia.org]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015

Comentarios

Comentario

Estimados Amigos:

Mi esposo y yo asistiremos por segunda vez a las confrerencias de Genealogía e Historia de la Familia en Aguascalientes, nos acompañará nuestro nieto de 17 años. Ya tenemos nuestras reservaciones en el Hotel Francia. Nos dará mucho gusto verlos en esa hermosa ciudad.

Pero antes, mi esposo y yo visitaremos Alemania, la Rep. Checa y Polonia en donde él representará a su familia como patron honorífico en una competencia a nivel preparatoria, sobre la Historia de las Familias, Castillos y Palacios en Silesia.
En ése lugar nació mi marido en 1939 cuando aún era Alemania, después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, esa provincia Alemana pasó a ser parte de Polonia.

Esperamos verlos en Agosto en Aguascalientes, mientras tanto les enviamos muchos saludos desde el Edo. de Nueva York.

Bertha y Guenter Boehm

***********************************************
"Böhm-Chronik"
http://www.boehm-chronik.com
600-jährige Geschichte einer Familie
in Schlesien (1329-1948)
***********************************************

Comentario

Buenas noches a todos desde texas! Desde hace muchos años he querido
asistir a las conferencias de genealogía e historia en méxico pero no he
podido... Estoy muy interesada en asistir a esta ojalá nos podamos conocer
allá!

Saludos! sandra gómez enríquez
On May 30, 2015 8:20 PM, wrote:

> Estimados Amigos: Mi esposo y yo asistiremos por segunda vez a las
> confrerencias de Genealogía e Historia de la Familia en Aguascalientes, nos
> acompañará nuestro nieto de 17 años. Ya tenemos nuestras reservaciones en
> el Hotel Francia. Nos dará mucho gusto verlos en esa hermosa ciudad. Pero
> antes, mi esposo y yo visitaremos Alemania, la Rep. Checa y Polonia en
> donde
> él representará a su familia como patron honorífico en una competencia a
> nivel preparatoria, sobre la Historia de las Familias, Castillos y Palacios
> en Silesia. En ése lugar nació mi marido en 1939 cuando aún era Alemania,
> después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, esa provincia Alemana pasó a ser
> parte de Polonia. Esperamos verlos en Agosto en Aguascalientes, mientras
> tanto les enviamos muchos saludos desde el Edo. de Nueva York. Bertha y
> Guenter Boehm ***********************************************
> "Böhm-Chronik"
> http://www.boehm-chronik.com 600-jährige Geschichte einer Familie in
> Schlesien (1329-1948) ***********************************************
>

Comentario

Buenas noches a todos desde texas! Desde hace muchos años he querido
asistir a las conferencias de genealogía e historia en méxico pero no he
podido... Estoy muy interesada en asistir a esta ojalá nos podamos conocer
allá!

Saludos! sandra gómez enríquez
On May 30, 2015 8:20 PM, wrote:

> Estimados Amigos: Mi esposo y yo asistiremos por segunda vez a las
> confrerencias de Genealogía e Historia de la Familia en Aguascalientes, nos
> acompañará nuestro nieto de 17 años. Ya tenemos nuestras reservaciones en
> el Hotel Francia. Nos dará mucho gusto verlos en esa hermosa ciudad. Pero
> antes, mi esposo y yo visitaremos Alemania, la Rep. Checa y Polonia en
> donde
> él representará a su familia como patron honorífico en una competencia a
> nivel preparatoria, sobre la Historia de las Familias, Castillos y Palacios
> en Silesia. En ése lugar nació mi marido en 1939 cuando aún era Alemania,
> después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, esa provincia Alemana pasó a ser
> parte de Polonia. Esperamos verlos en Agosto en Aguascalientes, mientras
> tanto les enviamos muchos saludos desde el Edo. de Nueva York. Bertha y
> Guenter Boehm ***********************************************
> "Böhm-Chronik"
> http://www.boehm-chronik.com 600-jährige Geschichte einer Familie in
> Schlesien (1329-1948) ***********************************************
>

Comentario

Bertha--

For those of us who cannot attend, could you share any pearls of wisdom you glean from the conference when you get back. It sounds fantastic with all those genealogical geniuses there.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: guenter@boehm-chronik.com
> Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 18:20:32 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogy Conference in Aguascalientes
>
> Estimados Amigos: Mi esposo y yo asistiremos por segunda vez a las
> confrerencias de Genealogía e Historia de la Familia en Aguascalientes, nos
> acompañará nuestro nieto de 17 años. Ya tenemos nuestras reservaciones en
> el Hotel Francia. Nos dará mucho gusto verlos en esa hermosa ciudad. Pero
> antes, mi esposo y yo visitaremos Alemania, la Rep. Checa y Polonia en donde
> él representará a su familia como patron honorífico en una competencia a
> nivel preparatoria, sobre la Historia de las Familias, Castillos y Palacios
> en Silesia. En ése lugar nació mi marido en 1939 cuando aún era Alemania,
> después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, esa provincia Alemana pasó a ser
> parte de Polonia. Esperamos verlos en Agosto en Aguascalientes, mientras
> tanto les enviamos muchos saludos desde el Edo. de Nueva York. Bertha y
> Guenter Boehm *********************************************** "Böhm-Chronik"
> http://www.boehm-chronik.com 600-jährige Geschichte einer Familie in
> Schlesien (1329-1948) ***********************************************
>

Comentario

Queridos Emilie García y amigos de Nuestros Ranchos:

Con un poco de retrazo les comento que el evento en la Universidad de Aguascalientes, fué nuevamente un éxito. La mayoría de los ponentes fueron Profesores (as) y Doctores (as) expertos en Genealogía e Historia, aprendimos nuevas estratégias y métodos para la busqueda de antepasados. Me temo que solamente mi esposo y yo fuimos simples aficionados que nos atrevimos a presentar sus trabajos, a pesar de eso recibimos buena respuesta del público y comentarios positivos de los profesores.
Ahí conocí a dos personas con los mismos antepasados lejanos, los Navarro-Gaytán. Los encontramos en la obra del Dr. Dn. Mariano González-Leal, “Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia” que yo creo, es indispensable para todos los que busquen sus raices en los Altos de Jalisco. Ojalá hubiera obras como esa sobre otras regiones del país.
Afuera del aula estaban vendiendo libros interesantes. Hay que aplaudir a los organizadores del evento por su entusiasmo y labor extraordinaria. Parece que van a publicar las ponencias de los coloquios de 2014 y 2015 en uno o dos libros. Hay que estar al pendiente.

Saludos afectuosos
Bertha M. de Boehm

www.boehm-chronik.com

Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes

Published by rlm99x –
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Genealogy Research

There were several men named Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700's. My research is focused on the man that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi.

i found a marriage dispensation for pedro chavez y banuelos and agueda olague

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-39213-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentarios

Comentario

Sorry for the interruption, just have a quick question for Katy. Where did
you find the old map that's at the top of your blog page? I would be interested in looking it up. Thank you.
Gustavo

Comentario

yes erlinda, based on the info. given in the marriage dispensation, it appears that juana de la torre is a daughter of juan del campo de la torre and angela velasco y mojica.

also guscar, i found that map here
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/2022701/oai_rebae_mcu_es_179063.h…
and
http://www.mcu.es/ccbae/es/consulta/registro.cmd?id=179063

the image was a pain to save. first i had to save it as a pdf then convert it to a image file

Comentario

.
Katy I'm confused again. I have in my records Miguel Olague married to Juana de la Torre del Rio y Loza
marriage dispensation 3rd degree igual
...trunk..Miguel de Olague and Juana de la Torre
Leonor de Olague.. Agueda de Olague
Angela Ortiz...............Francisco Chavez
Christoval Villavicencio..Gertrudis Chavez
source: sagrada mitra 167989
.
this has Juana Gamboa Moxica as her Mother and makes her daughter of Juan Campo de la Torre and Angela Velasco Renteria y Moxica.. is this correct? I do have a Juana Gamboa Moxica mother of Antonia Gamboa y Moxica married to Nicolas Gonzales de Haro. Is this the same Juana Gamboa Agueda names as her Mother?
Also the dispensation says Pedro had 3 children but are they with Agueda? Also if Pedro is second cousin to Aguedas grandfather Juan Campos de la Torre, any idea who and how???
Linda, confused again in Olympia, Wa

Los Jimenez de Mendoza en Los Altos

Published by Rodriguez de Frias –
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Hola a todos, queria preguntar a los miembros de este grupo si no tienen o si saben donde hay informacion acerca de los genearcas del linage de los Jimenez de Mendoza en Los Altos de Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Si los Jimenez de Mendoza empieza aqui con don Nicolas Jimenez y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza. He sospechado quelos Nicolas Jimenez y Juan Jimenez eran parientes una manera, no hay muchos Jimenez en Los Altos. Dudo queeran mestizos estos hombres. Tenia que ser hombre de linaje porque su apellido tenia el "derecho" a componer su apellidocon los ilustros Mendoza. Nicolas Jimenez es mencioado que era un hidalgo segun dice don Mariano Gonzalez Leal.No se sabe mucho de estos Jimenez. Solo se que Jimenez de MEndoza es un apellido compuesto y unas de las ramas rivalesque se "quebraron de los Mendoza". Estos siendo, Gutierrez de MEndoza, Gomez de Mendoza, etc.

Saludos,
Daniel
Nicolas y Juana son mis ancestros varias veces si he estudio la familia.
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

Comentario

No Pienso era mestizo quiza en su ascendencia pero ya como sabemoslos Mendoza era una familia muy cuidadoso a quien se casaban. Ya lo vemosque hasta los criollos se formaban cierta alianzas en los Altos.
-Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:59:48 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Los Jimenez de Mendoza en Los Altos
>
> Daniel, gracias por la confirmación. A quien tienes tu como padres de
> Nicolás Jiménez? Tengo sospechas de que en algún momento durante la
> ascendencia de esta rama de los Jiménez hubo un mestizo.
>
> Saludos,
>
> Ricardo
>

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

Comentario

Hello Rick, were you able to find the parents of Nicolas Ximenes married to Regina Mendoza? I find that I am from two Jimenez de Mendoza lineages through the Romo side of my family (in addition to the one Jimenez de Alvarado line). Both lineages are from Jose Jimenez de Mendoza and Josepha Padilla Davila's children. One line through Christoval and another line through Theresa. (Note: I find on some Family Search trees that Nicolas is listed as Nicolas Ximenes de Castro).

Thank you for any information you can provide,

Cynthia Jimenez

Surnames and families missing from retonos

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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Genealogy Research

Hello Steve,

I jumped three feet in the air when I read that you wrote :

" I want to step in and present what I
> have collected on certain Alteño branches and additional lines NOT in

Comentarios

Comentario

Well I hope you are not holding your breath, as my first of several books is still a few years away unfortunately. But when they are ready for publication, there will be announcements.

I have members of the Suazo y Carmona family members in my records, but I am not a Suazo y Carmona by blood. Since I do not descend from them I am guilty as charged of not caring about lines that are not my own. They marry into a few of my lines from Tepatitlán, primarily Alvarez de la Cruz, Cortes, Velásquez, Estrada, Loza, and a few others. I have more info on these families that the Suazos married into.

I have investigated the Suazos as far as I was capable, but not with the same relentless passion and diligence that I endeavor in my own lines, so I have not really continued at all.

And the short list I compiled of family names missing from Retoños, I mentioned Hernández Gamiño, Marentes de Otadui y Avendaño, Ornelas, & Sánchez de Mendoza. All these have chapters in Retoños, but I have discovered new documents in the interim and compiled way more information than he has in those chapters, as with a few other families I can't remember right now.

And how in the world do you connect with the family Vital-Ibarra de Anguiano of Arandas/San Miguel el Alto/Ayo el Chico??? The last name VITAL is quite rare in Los Altos, but it's there!!! They were originally from San Pedro Piedra Gorda, Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato. What are the names of your Vital-Ibarra and Hernández Gamiño people?? I bet I have them in my records.

SFHL

Comentario

Dear Steve,

My mother in law was born in San Miguel el Alto

My mother in law descends from Cecilio Rocha (Madrid de la Rocha) and Petronila (Petra) Aldana

Cecilio Rocha married numerous times and he is the son of Jose Damasio de G. Madrid de la Rocha, and Maria Viviana Hernandez Ibarra (Alias Vital)

Jose Damacio de G. Madrid de la Rochais the son of Jose FranciscoMadrid de la Rocha aand Maria Lucrecia Vasquez

Jose Francisco Madrid de la Rocha is the son of Josef Andres Madrid de la Rocha

Maria Viviana Hernandez is the daughter of Domingo Hernandez Gamino and Maria Gertrudis Elias Ibarra y Plasencia

Domingo is the son of Agustin Hernandez Gamino and Maria Josefa Llamas Sanchez

Agustin Hernandez Gamino is the son of Juan Ignacio Hernandez Gamino and Juana Catarina Magana Hernandez Gamino

Juan Ignacio is the son of Miguel Hernandez Gamino and Manuela Maciel

Maria Josefa is the daughter of Nicolas Eupracio Llamas Hernandez and Anna Maria Sanchez

Maria Gertrude's Elias Ibarra is the daughter of Josef Maria Ramon Ibarra Alias Vital y Quesada. And Anna Maria Plasencis is the daughter of Joseph Vicente Plasencia y Asencio de Leon and Maria Marcela Magana Hernandez de Gamino

Maria Marcela Magana and Juana Catarina Magana are sisters and are the children of Jose Manuel Magana and Maria Guadalupe Hernandez Gamino

Jose Maria Ramon Ibarra Alias Vital is the son of Juan Jose Ibarra and Josefa Gertrudis Quesada

Nicolas eupracio Llamas is the son of Marcos Llamas and Maria Navarro Hernandez

Now to the Aldanas.
Petronila Aldana is the daughter of Jose Manuel Aldana (jr) and Maria Trinidad Ramírez

Junior is the son of Jose Manuel Aldana (senior) and Maria Antonia Lopez Vasquez

Jose Manuel Aldana (senior) is the son of Pedro de Jose Aldana and Maria Gertrudis Perez (daughter of Diego Perez de Frias and Maria Romero)

The Suazo de Carmona line I descend from:
I descend from juan Climaco (Quillmaco) Suazo de Carmona and Pheliciana Belasquez

Juan Climaco is the son of Francisco Xavier Suazo de Carmona and Maria Efigenia Losa Trujillo

Pheliciana is the daughter of Felipe Velasquez Becerra and Maria Anna Aramburo

Felipe is the son of Blas Vasquez de Lara Hernandez and Micaela Becerra de Mendoza

Blas is the son of Francisco Velasquez and Catalina Hernandez

Maria Anna Aramburo is the daughter of Pascual Aramburo and Juana Nuno Gaytan

Pascual is the son of Diego Aramburo and Ma.AnnaG. Yanez de Medinilla Alvarado

Estrada Line:

I also descend from Jose Rafael Estrada (son of Jose Domingo Estrada Cortes and Maria Rita GDJ Valencia Gonzalez) and Maria Dolores Gomez (daughter of Jose Ygnacio Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza and Phelipa Catarina Aceves)

Do you have the ancestry of Domingo Estrada Cortes and Maria Rita GdJ Valencia Gonzalez?

Additional info on that email I sent you. The info I gave you is even stronger based on a few new sources that back up my research and how I have organized the lines.
I have additional information on Samuel, his father and grandfather
Samuel is in his fifties in 1339 so he was born between 1279 and 1288. In 1339. Samuel is identified as looking much younger than his actual age which is in the fifties. Samuels son is young in 1339 and lives at least into 1390's, he rewrote his will in 1391 when he disinherited his two oldest grandsons.

Looking forward to your books,
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci

Comentario

Just thought of two more surnames not in Retoños...Martel de Villegas and Olmos. These have interesting histories.

I'll comment later on your line of Hernández Gamiño and Vital-Ibarra, but suffice it to say that Domingo Hernández Gamiño and Maria Gertrudis Vital-Ibarra are my tios. Their parents are my ancestors. I have lots on them.

However, don't have detailed info on the other lines. Except Velasquez though. I connect there.

SFHL

regarding the update family search did to the guadalajara dispensas

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

news: for some odd reason they split up some dispensations into parts, essentially renumbering some part of the original. this will affect the page number many of these marriages can be found on.

Comentarios

Comentario

Katy

As an option, you could create a key ....

Film # (start date-end date) images 1-2500 becomes
...Part 1, images 1-500
...Part 2, images 501-1000
...Part 3, images 1001-1500, and so on.

Depending on what was done at the beginning of the film-one or more images with film number or other information-it would not be too difficult to estimate the new image number: for example your original image 501 should become the first image after the leader images of the new Part 1.

In this manner it would not be necessary to redo/repost all your work.

This is not the first time this was done: the Aguascalientes Matrimonial Investigations were reposted, but the original postings were re-grouped according to how they were filmed. This is a bit more convoluted to straighten out: my original index is now difficult to work with. I have been working on this, but not re-posted the results yet.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

i'll probably do that for the ones i've already posted starting with the 1855 ones.

also i'm thinking about getting another mod, so the blog could get updated more fequently

i'm also gonna try redoing the the index directory page with some of the years linking to pages like this http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/tagged/1855
instead of putting links for every individual index

Comentario

Hola Members, I don't know what I am doing wrong , I cannot search for any body at Guadalajara Dispensas utilizing the search Blog. It states that it is loading and that's has been that way for several days. Does any body know whats happening or is it me again slow poke Ronnie ?

Thank you for your time

Ronnie

Comentario

well what type of internet connection do you have? what browser do you use?

you can also search my blog by typing in a name on google search then skipping a space or more and then typing site:guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com

Comentario

Hola Members , I have been trying to locate people on Guadalajara Dispensas( which I have been usingfor a long time) but the search blog states- loading- so I cannot enter any ones name for a search. This is every time I try to use it. I am a computer dummy and really don't know what I am doing wrong ,any suggestions ?

Ronnie-El Lento

Comentario

Hello there... the same thing has happened to me.
On Aug 15, 2015 3:10 PM, "Ronald Reynoso" wrote:

> Hola Members , I have been trying to locate people on Guadalajara
> Dispensas( which I have been usingfor a long time) but the search blog
> states- loading- so I cannot enter any ones name for a search. This is
> every time I try to use it. I am a computer dummy and really don't know
> what I am doing wrong ,any suggestions ?
>
> Ronnie-El Lento

Comentario

are you guys talking about my blog or the original one made by claudia that hasn't been updated for a while.

if it's mine, i'll probably change the layout again to see if the current layout/theme is the cause if your guy's prooblems

NICOLAS DE LOZA Y ANTONIA DIAZ DE LEON

Published by hfaizcorbe –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have seen several entries stating that Nicolas de Loza, married to Antonia Díaz de León, was de son of Bernabe de Loza and Gertrudis Montoya. However, I have just found the dispensation for the first marriage of my ancestor Antonio Ramon de Luna, who was Nicolas de Losas´s great grandson, to Maria Antonia González Rubio, which includes their genealogical tree noting that Nicolas de Loza was the son of Gaspar de Loza and Juana de la Torre (Diócesis de GuadalajaraMatrimonios 1787, parte 2 Imagen 715). I have not been able to fin anymore information on this last couple. Does anyone in the group knows something about them?

Thank you
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

Comentarios

Comentario

I believe my previous message did not go through.

I have seen several entries stating that Nicolás de Loza was de son of Bernabe de Loza and Gertrudis Montoya. The information for the marriage dispensation of my ancestor Antonio Ramon de Luna, in his first marriage to Antonia Gonzalez Rubio, includes a genealogical tree in which Nicolas de Loza appears as son of Gaspar de Loza and Juana de la Torre. Does anyone in the group know anything about this last couple.

Regards,
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

General Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1

Published by elisaakamommy –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

What's the name of that book again?

Comentarios

Comentario

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

I am not at home to check my records but near the valle is a place known as el salto
------Original Message------
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 13, 2010 8:29 PM

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
- and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
To: ;
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
- and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son's (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father's (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

There are a lot more francisco gutierrez de hermosillo in my records so I am going to leave him as I have him. It is important for people studying or ancestors that they went by more than one name, sometimes 3 or 4. When they went by 3 or 4 it was most likely a woman.
------Original Message------
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 14, 2010 12:17 PM

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son's (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father's (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin's Husband) Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor's will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel's father and Francisco Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Comentario

Check Jaime holcombes work. I believe that he provided documentation.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:09:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin's Husband) Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor's will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel's father and Francisco Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Comentario

Wonderful job Luigi (aka Alex Mercado)...WOW!!!!

You indeed found the marriage of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín, ancestors to many of us!!! I am stunned...jaw on the floor.

I verified the date, 21 Nov 1652, and it fits. Records indicate that Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín began having children right around 1651-1652. We will have to re-calculate the ages of their children in light of this very concrete marriage date, 21 November 1652.

Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín - 21 Noviembre 1652, Guadalajara

"Fran.co gutiéres, doña Ju.a Lomelín ----- En veinte y vno de noviembre de Sinqu.ta y dos su señoría Yllustríssima desposó y veló, a Fran.co gutiérres Y a doña Juana Lomelí Y assistí Yo al dicho oficio, testigos don Fran.co rincón Y don manuel gallardo. . . . Fran.co Gallegos (rúbrica) Sacristán m.or "

Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979, Guadalajara, Sagrario Metropolitano, Defunciones 1641-1730 [Image 67 of 733]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-1165-18?cc=1874591&wc=…

I immediately began to transcribe it, copy the source, download the image, and insert the data and image in my family tree. Unfortunately, literally no valuable data can be gleaned from the meager record. It does not mention where they were from or even the fact that Juana was the widow of Rodrigo de Carbajal. Nothing!

Then I searched this marriage document in FamilySearch.org and nothing. So the marriages located amongst these burials are not on the FamilySearch database. We're going to have to go fishing.

Muchas muchas gracias
Tu primo Paco

Comentario

Congratulations for the great discovery. I was pleased to receive the news earlier today and was very glad. It is unfortunate that the record does not mention anymore information, but maybe we can find an "información matrimonial" if it exists. This is another reason why we have to continue to study all these microfilms, we are never sure what we will find or if records in this case marriage records are mixed with others.
Interesting to note, below the record of Francisco and Juana, we find the marriage record of Lucas Alonso and María Ortiz de Anda, based on the age and location she should be the daughter I have been looking for as a legitimate daughter of Esteban de Pastraña and Catalina Ortiz de Anda. In the will and testament that Esteban issued prior to his death he mentions his daughter "María Ortiz de Anda" but does not mention she is married which I suppose this was prior to her marriage. More information will be needed to and much research done. I will search through these mixed marriages.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty sure that all of you serious Alteño genealogists have this source in your notes already, but I thought it would be nice to share.

On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo". And directly to the left is the signature of his brother, el Bachiller Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. Two brothers' signatures side by side. Very cool.

Below is a transcription of his statement and the source.

[Image 80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo - 6 Nov 1682, La Hacienda de Mezcala, Zapotlanejo

"En la dha Hazienda de Mexcala Jur.ón de tZapotlán en los dhos seis días del mes de Noviembre de mill y seiscientos y ochenta y dos años; para la informazión que offrece el dho Benito Muños de la barva press.tó ante mí, por ttestigo a Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo Vez.o desta dha Jur.ón al qual rezeví Juram.to que lo que supiere y le fuere preguntado diga; so cargo del qual prometió decir V.d fuele preguntado si conoçe al dho Benito Muños de la Barva y a Estephanía de Quesada; si save que sean libres y solteros para poder contraher el matrimonio que pretenden; si save que ayan echo Votos de castidad o rreligión; o sean cassados; o ayan dado palabra de cassam.to; o sean parientes affines o consanguíneos lo diga; si save qual sea la causa por que pretenden dispensaçión de amonestaciones; y si la dha estephanía de quesada es Vez.a de más a.s de S.n Juan a ttodo lo qual responde y diçe que conoçe a los sus dhos por que los vido naçer y criar y que save no ser parientes por ninguna vía ni manera; ni save oigan hecho voto de rreligión o de castidad, ni ser parientes por ningún camino y que la causa de pedir y supp.car as su illustrísima dispense en las Vanas es por rezelo de que no quieren sus hermanos por detrimento de sus personas; so cargo del Juram.to que hiço a Dios N. S.r y a la señal de la S.ta cruz diçe ser esta la Ver.d de lo que dho ttiene en que se affirmó y rratificó y ser el dho Benito Muños de la barva su primo hermano deste tt.o no por esso dexó de deçir la V.d en ttodo lo que dho ttiene declaró ser de edad de sesenta y ocho años pocos más, y lo firmó conmigo dho Juez = . . . B.r Lázaro Gutiérrez de hermozillo (rúbrica) . . . Fran.co gutiérres rubio de hermosillo (rúbrica) . . .
Ante mí
Fran.co Agúndiz (rúbrica)
N.o N.do"

A base de la edad de poco más de 68 años de edad que declara en la fecha de 6 de noviembre de 1682 (1682-68=1614), se puede calcular que nació en 1614 o antes. Es razonable entonces deducir que nació razonablemente entre 1610 y 1614. Francisco menciona que es primo hermano del pretenso Benito Muñoz de la Barba. El padre de Francisco y la madre de Benito eran hermanos. Simplifiqué aquí su parentesco:

Tronco . . . . . . . . [Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio I & Ana González Florida I]
. . . . . . . [Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio] . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . [Catalina González de la Reguera]
. . . . . . . [+Leonor de Hermosillo] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [+Francisco Muñoz de la Barba]
. . Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo . . 2 . . . . . . . Benito Muñoz de la Barba

Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979, Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1689-1698, 1796 [Image 80 of 614]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
________________________________________________

Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo (aka Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio, or just Francisco Gutiérrez), born ca. 1610-1614, married to Juana de Lomelín are also my ancestors. I descend from their daughter Leonor de Hermosillo, married ca. 1676, to Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza.

And for those of you who like signatures, I also have in my notes the signature of Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, son-in-law of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo. Juan de la Mora’s signature is on the left page, and as added bonus, on the right page is the signature of Lucas Romero de Chávez, husband of Petronila González de Hermosillo (daughter of Juan González de Hermosillo III, and niece of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo). Lucas Romero is precisely the one person in world history after whom Mezcala de los Romero was named. It was Lucas…he was “THE” Romero!!!

Firmas de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza & Lucas Romero de Chávez - 12 Diciembre 1708, Tepatitlán

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-2683-12?cc=1874591&wc=…

(I try to maintain very detailed notes.)

Well primos, I hope this is helpful to you all.

SFHL

Comentario

Hello Stephen,

This is great. I know many of us appreciate you sharing your research.
As you know I also descend from Francisco Gtz Rubio y Hermosillo several times.
I have a question about the signature on the left. Would that be of his brother who was a priest?
Was he acting as the priest in this dispensa?

Thanks, Irma Gomez Gtz

----- Original Message -----

From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 2:54:57 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo

Hello everyone, I'm pretty sure that all of you serious Alteño genealogists
have this source in your notes already, but I thought it would be nice to
share. On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the
bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y
Hermosillo". Below is a transcription of his statement and the source. [Image
80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo - 6 Nov 1682,
La Hacienda de Mezcala, Zapotlanejo "En la dha Hazienda de Mexcala Jur.ón de
tZapotlán en los dhos seis días del mes de Noviembre de mill y seiscientos
y ochenta y dos años; para la informazión que offrece el dho Benito Muños
de la barva press.tó ante mí, por ttestigo a Francisco Gutiérrez de
Hermosillo Vez.o desta dha Jur.ón al qual rezeví Juram.to que lo que
supiere y le fuere preguntado diga; so cargo del qual prometió decir V.d
fuele preguntado si conoçe al dho Benito Muños de la Barva y a Estephanía
de Quesada; si save que sean libres y solteros para poder contraher el
matrimonio que pretenden; si save que ayan echo Votos de castidad o
rreligión; o sean cassados; o ayan dado palabra de cassam.to; o sean
parientes affines o consanguíneos lo diga; si save qual sea la causa por que
pretenden dispensaçión de amonestaciones; y si la dha estephanía de
quesada es Vez.a de más a.s de S.n Juan a ttodo lo qual responde y diçe que
conoçe a los sus dhos por que los vido naçer y criar y que save no ser
parientes por ninguna vía ni manera; ni save oigan hecho voto de rreligión
o de castidad, ni ser parientes por ningún camino y que la causa de pedir y
supp.car as su illustrísima dispense en las Vanas es por rezelo de que no
quieren sus hermanos por detrimento de sus personas; so cargo del Juram.to
que hiço a Dios N. S.r y a la señal de la S.ta cruz diçe ser esta la Ver.d
de lo que dho ttiene en que se affirmó y rratificó y ser el dho Benito
Muños de la barva su primo hermano deste tt.o no por esso dexó de deçir la
V.d en ttodo lo que dho ttiene declaró ser de edad de sesenta y ocho años
pocos más, y lo firmó conmigo dho Juez = . . . B.r Lázaro Gutiérrez de
hermozillo (rúbrica) . . . Fran.co gutiérres rubio de hermosillo (rúbrica)
. . . Ante mí Fran.co Agúndiz (rúbrica) N.o N.do" A base de la edad de
poco más de 68 años de edad que declara en la fecha de 6 de noviembre de
1682 (1682-68=1614), se puede calcular que nació en 1614 o antes. Es
razonable entonces deducir que nació razonablemente entre 1610 y 1614.
Francisco menciona que es primo hermano del pretenso Benito Muñoz de la
Barba. El padre de Francisco y la madre de Benito eran hermanos. Simplifiqué
aquí su parentesco: Tronco . . . . . . . . [Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio I &
Ana González Florida I] . . . . . . . [Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio] . . . . . .
. . .1 . . . . [Catalina González de la Reguera] . . . . . . . [+Leonor de
Hermosillo] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [+Francisco Muñoz de la Barba] . .
Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo . . 2 . . . . . . . Benito Muñoz de
la Barba Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979,
Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1689-1698, 1796 [Image 80
of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
________________________________________________ Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y
Hermosillo (aka Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Francisco Gutiérrez
Rubio, or just Francisco Gutiérrez), born ca. 1610-1614, married to Juana de
Lomelín are also my ancestors. I descend from their daughter Leonor de
Hermosillo, married ca. 1676, to Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza. And for
those of you who like signatures, I also have in my notes the signature of
Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, son-in-law of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio
y Hermosillo. Juan de la Mora’s signature is on the left page, and as added
bonus, on the right page is the signature of Lucas Romero de Chávez, husband
of Petronila González de Hermosillo (daughter of Juan González de
Hermosillo III, and niece of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo). Lucas
Romero is precisely the one person in world history after whom Mezcala de los
Romero was named. It was Lucas…he was “THE” Romero!!! Firmas de Juan de
la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza & Lucas Romero de Chávez - 12 Diciembre 1708,
Tepatitlán
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-2683-12?cc=1874591&wc=…
(I try to maintain very detailed notes.) Well primos, I hope this is helpful
to you all. SFHL

Comentario

No hay de que...

And yes...On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo".

And directly to the left is the signature of his brother the priest, el Bachiller Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. Two brothers' signatures side by side. Very cool.

Below is the source.

[Image 80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentario

Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

Tengo sospecho que este PEdro Alvarez era pariente de los Alvarez de Sandi y los Alvarez Tostado.Ya que era originario de Teocaltiche, y hay unos fuentes que da la senda a esta conexcion.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 06:51:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Flores Rubi
>
> Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
>
> This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
> Daniel
>
>
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
>> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
>> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
>> To: ;
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
>> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
>> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
>> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
>> sharing research results!
>>
>> Susan Cadena
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
>> xalos68@hotmail.com
>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
>> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
>> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
>> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
>> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>>
>> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
>> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
>> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
>> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
>> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
>> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
>> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
>> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>>
>> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
>> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
>> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
>> on this family that I can share.
>>
>> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Comentario

The book is called "Haciendas de Jalisco y aledaños 1506-1821", by Ricardo
Lancaster-Jones.

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Elisa Joyce
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:23 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1

What's the name of that book again? Some of my family comes from those
Haciendas.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:05 PM,
wrote:

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> 1. "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os" (Susan and Joe Cadena)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:07:47 -0700
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> To:
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os"
> Message-ID: <002001caecd1$afb623f0$0f226bd0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about this book. I was able to
> obtain it through Interlibrary Loan and I have this copy (from Occidental
> College Library) until May 12. Based on my cursory glance through the
book,
> I do not expect to find anything helpful for my own research. (I had been
> hopeful that Hacienda El Salto would be mentioned.)
>
> But I am listing the Table of Contents here in case other members might
> want
> to order the book for their own research:
> I. Como encontraron la Tierra los Conquistadores
> II. Algunas Mercedes del Siglo XVI
> III. Reestructuraciones del Siglo XVII
> IV. M?s cambios en el Siglo XVIII
> V. Mayorazgos de Nueva Galicia y Provincia de Avalos
> VI. Los propiedades Rusticas de la Iglesia en Nueva Galicia y Provincia de
> Avalos, despues Intendencia de Guadalajara. Conclusiones
>
> Some of the specific Haciendas mentioned are: La Venta del Astillero;
> Toluquilla; Cabezon; Portillo; Mazatepec; Ahuacapan Miraflores; Ledezma;
La
> Punta; Santa Maria; Jaltomate; Palo Alto; Los Campos; Ojuelos; Penuelos;
> Sauceda; Buenavista.
>
> Unfortunately there is no index, so it is very difficult to find
> information about a specific place easily.
>
>

trying to find Benigno Galaviz can Nuestros Ranchos extended Family help me

Published by ghostops98 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Benigno Galaviz who were his parents ? he lived in jalpa area in the 1900s not sure when he was born.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2015-08-09 14:56 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I had an ancestor with a similar situation. When the father remarries, the children from the first marriage may stress their mother's surname to distinguish them selves from the children born from the second marriage. Benigno is most likely the son of Jose Guadalupe Duran and Maria Gálvez if he is a half sibling. Benigno was most likely baptized with his father surname and made the change after his father remarries and has children with his second wife.

Finding the birth or baptismal record of Antonia Galvez dated June 13 ,1934 Could help identify her grandparents.
R A Ricci

A Message To All Members

Published by makas_nc –
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Please do not ever post messages about Linked In. Do not post them do not
reply to them. Thanks for your cooperation on this topic.

Comentarios

Comentario

I had nothing to do with what you are accusing me of doing! Have no idea whatsoever of what that is. So please get your facts straight before contacting people.

Shivis

> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org; research@nuestrosranchos.org; general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:27:17 -0400
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] A Message To All Members
>
> Please do not ever post messages about Linked In. Do not post them do not
> reply to them. Thanks for your cooperation on this topic. I have sent a
> warning to those involved in the previous messages about Linked In.
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
>
>
>
>
>

A Message To All Members

Published by makas_nc –
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Genealogy Research

Please do not ever post messages about Linked In. Do not post them do not
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what's this document about?

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-42719-12370-50?cc=1937239…

Comentarios

Comentario

That specific page says that in 21/04/1620 Maria Magdalena is reporting a criminal case against Phelipe Mexia son of Ynes de Monrroy, reason because Maria's daughter Maria (same name) was pregnant by Phelipe, a friend of her "a mestiço" called Johan Albares told Phelipe to marry the girl. In retaliation Phelipe went to Maria's house and beat the mother that was saved by people holding him back.

It looks as if she want Phelipe to be incarcerated plus to marry her daughter though.

The following document seems to be similar but definitely not related. They look like just part of a complete "dipensa".

Comentario

Katy this are amazing but I can't read a single thing! I did see there is a record from Jerez so tried but it's beyond my reading skills. This was the first box starting at A-L
Linda

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