Question regarding first names

Dear NR primos,
Would it be common to have different children named "Jose Maria" + a different middle name?

Comments

Comment

Many kids were baptized with multiple names, my 2nd great grandmother was baptized Maria Daria Atilana del Refugio Rubio de Zepeda, but she went by Atilana. This is probably your ancestor it would be enough proof for me in my own lines, and I'm very critical. As long you have the same parents, grandparents, location, should be good.

Daniel Mendez Camino

Comment

I also think it's the Jose Maria I'm looking for because it matches with the parents names, and they are residing in La Barranca where it seems there were several people from La Villita near Jalpa.

One thing I'm still looking for is which "Barranca" the Calvillo church refers to. I haven't found anything definitive, the Diccionario Geografico by Cuba gives 2 Barrancas near Calvillo, Barranca del Roble and Barranca de Frensos. Today you can also see Barranca del Portale de Portales.

Interesting tidbit from my 87 year-old uncle. He says that he would deliver eggs and other products to Aguascalientes and would take the go from La Villita to Hacienda de San Pedro and head west into the mountains and then past Calvillo and into Aguascalientes. He can't recall how long it took (he used a burro) but he says it was 8-12 hours. Google says it takes 8 hours to walk from Jalpa to Calvillo, so I believe him.

Comment

I wish you the best of luck in your search. Nothing is better than the feeling of success in your genealogy. Interesting not my Camino family lived in the Hacienda de San Pedro for about 3 years 1897-1900 where two kids were born. They would move around a lot, Aguascalientes, Mexico City, Pinos, Asientos, Huanusco, Jalpa and Calvillo.
Daniel M

Comment

It was common for men to not use their middle names, wich were given at their baptism, when they were adults. Sometimes the "Jose" whould be dropped also, altough not when named Jose Maria. It could be highly unlikely that his parents renamed him after another diseased child; as far as i understand it was "bad" luck. Hope this helps,

A. Bugarin

Comment

It could be highly unlikely that as far as i understand it was "bad" luck. Hope this
helps,t his parents renamed him after another
diseased child

So many parents named their child after a child died. They felt like they were honoring the deceased child. I have many many instances of two or more children with the same name in my family files.

In my mother's family there were three boys named Teodulo after the first two had died. The third one still lives.

Alicia

________________________________

It was common for men to not use their middle names, wich were given at their baptism, when they were adults. Sometimes the "Jose" whould be dropped also, altough not when named Jose Maria. It could be highly unlikely that his parents renamed him after another diseased child; as far as i understand it was "bad" luck. Hope this helps,

A. Bugarin -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

Comment

I have seen in the US censuses and old Mexican census from 1841 and in the Mexican baptism records where they named another child with the name of another one that was older and they both lived to adulthood. In one instance they called the older child "primera".

Emilie

> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:06:58 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Naming of children after deceased child
>
> It could be highly unlikely that as far as i understand it was "bad" luck. Hope this
> helps,t his parents renamed him after another
> diseased child
>
>
> So many parents named their child after a child died. They felt like they were honoring the deceased child. I have many many instances of two or more children with the same name in my family files.
>
>
> In my mother's family there were three boys named Teodulo after the first two had died. The third one still lives.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> It was common for men to not use their middle names, wich were given at their baptism, when they were adults. Sometimes the "Jose" whould be dropped also, altough not when named Jose Maria. It could be highly unlikely that his parents renamed him after another diseased child; as far as i understand it was "bad" luck. Hope this helps,
>
> A. Bugarin -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

Comment

I'm not sure about the "bad" luck issue. My grandparents were from Jalisco,
Durango, Guanajuato and Chihuahua, and both of my parents have sibs who were
named after deceased older sibs, with only very slight changes in the formal
names, and less to none in the name they used. I would have thought that if
any one of grandparents were superstitious, they would have insisted (within
that couple),that this not be done.

Raquel Ruiz

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:52 PM, wrote:

> It was common for men to not use their middle names, wich were given at
> their baptism, when they were adults. Sometimes the "Jose" whould be dropped
> also, altough not when named Jose Maria. It could be highly unlikely that
> his parents renamed him after another diseased child; as far as i understand
> it was "bad" luck. Hope this helps,
>
> A. Bugarin -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

NAVARRO de Tepatitlan

Hola a Todos

Ojalá que alguno de Uds. pueda ayudarme a conseguir el tomo IV de " Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia " en él se encuentra la genealogía de los Navarro de Tepatitlán. Si alguien lo tiene y no lo quiere vender, tal vez me pueda hacer el gran favor de escanear las páginas tocantes a esa familia, que tengo entendido fué una de las primeras 117 que llegaron a Los Altos de Jalisco a mediados del siglo XVI.

Comments

Comment

Dirigido a Tomás Alejandro villegas:

Hola Tomás;

Varias personas me contestaron que de la obra "Retoños ------", sólo se han publicado los dos primeros tomos, por lo que no me queda mas que esperar a que se publiquen los siguientes. Los dos primeros ya los tengo, están muy interesantes.

Mi abuelo Tiburcio Navarro Acevez nació en Tepatitlán en 1884 y toda la familia se mudó a Guadalajara a fines del siglo XIX. Ignoro si su papá Narciso Navarro Martín tuvo hermanos, en tal caso no se nada de sus decendientes, el papá de Narciso se llamaba Onofre Navarro Gutierrez y el padre de éste último fué Felipe Navarro, ignoro el segundo apellido. Eso es lo que hasta ahora hé podido averiguar.
Sería fantástico si pudieras encontrar uno de éstos nombres en tu lista.
Yo nací en la Cd. de México y mi esposo en Alemania, pero desde hace 25 años radicamos en una pequeña población del Edo. de Nueva York.
Por aqui no hay muchos latinos y tú en que parte de EE.UU. vives?

Saludos
Bertha M. de Boehm

En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Comment

Hola Bertha:

Gusto en saludarte, y desearte lo mejor siempre.
Yo desde hace varios años estoy investigando mi genealogia por
todas mis ramas y una de ellas
es presisamente la de los Navarro, ya que mi abuelo era Francisco
Villegas Navarro, y siempre cuando
consulto films o libros de los Altos de Jalisco, procuro tomar nota de
todos los Navarro que me encuentro
y tengo bastante "historia" de los Navarro en los Altos, aunque
reconozco que me falta todabia muchisimo
mas por investigar, si gustas mandame tu Genealogia hasta lo mas
antiguo que tengas de tus Navarro para
ver que tengo y si puedo enlasarte con lo que he investigado.

Por cierto, sobre lo del libro de DonMariano Glez Leal, yo si
he podido escribirme via e-mail y ya le
pregunte sobre la continuacion de su obra, solo se publicaron hasta
ahora los 2 primeros tomos, que por
cierto ya se re-editaron recientemente, el tubo, segun he sabido, que
suspender la publicacion de sus
siguientes tomos porque tubo problemas con sus parientes Gonzalez,
porque ellos no querian que publicara
algunos datos de la familia, y la suspendio, pero segun el me informa,
ya esta trabajando arduamente
para ahora si publicar la totalidad desu obra, que es una tarea
"Titanica", y lo que originalmente se
habia planeado para 4 o 5 tomos, ahora va a ser una Gran Enciclopedia
Tematica y de Apellidos de los
Altos de Jalisco, que al parecer van a ser 14 o 15 Tomos, El Dr.
Mariano como te digo, me conto desde
el año pasado que esta trabajando arduamente para publicar su obra, el
me decia que si no se retrasa
mucho, a lo mejor este año del 2008 ya podra publicarlo, pero eso
mismo esta diciendo desde hace
varios años, y se ha estado retrasaddo su publicacion, recemos porque
los obstaculos que tenga para
su publicacion se despejen y pronto publique su obra en su totalidad,
y podremos disfrutar de esta
magna obra.

Saludos desde Guadalajara: Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

El día 5 de mayo de 2008 11:43, Boehm-Chronik
escribió:
> Hola a Todos
>
> Ojalá que alguno de Uds. pueda ayudarme a conseguir el tomo IV de " Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia " en él se encuentra la genealogía de los Navarro de Tepatitlán. Si alguien lo tiene y no lo quiere vender, tal vez me pueda hacer el gran favor de escanear las páginas tocantes a esa familia, que tengo entendido fué una de las primeras 117 que llegaron a Los Altos de Jalisco a mediados del siglo XVI.
>
> Ya tengo dos años tratando de conseguir ése tomo y no lo encuentro, parece que está agotado.
>
> Mi abuelo emigró a Guadalajara siendo muy joven con su mamá y hermanos después de la muerte de su papá (1893)
> por lo que mi interés es por mis antepasados del siglo XIX y anteriores.
>
> Agradezco de antemano su ayuda.
>
> Bertha M. Navarro de Boehm
> http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm
>
>

Comment

Hola Tomas Alejandro:

Hace algún tiempo leí en uno de tus mensajes, que tu cuarto abuelo fué José Manuel Navarro Gutierrez.
Era este antepasado tuyo de Tepatitlán? Si fuera así tal vez esté relacionado con mi tercer abuelo Onofre Navarro Gutierrez que debe haber nacido por 1820 o 30, en tal caso me interesaría saber el nombre del padre de tu dicho cuarto abuelo y si sabes su asendencia, te agradecería me pasaras los datos. Por supuesto yo te pasaría los datos que tenga sobre esa genealogía.

Saludos
Bertha Medina de Boehm

En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Comment

Hola Bertha,

Que yo sepa, solo se han publicado dos tomos de "Retoños de España en la
Nueva Galicia". El tomo siguiente se iba a publicar el año pasado, pero
quien sabe por que razón ya no se hizo. Hace algunos años traté de ponerme
en contacto con D. Mariano González Leal pero nunca logré comunicarme con
él.

En qué parte de los EE.UU. vives? Tengo muchos años de estar radicado en
los Estados Unidos con mi familia. Yo nací en Guatemala pero tengo raíces
profundas en Aguascalientes, Zacatecas y los Altos de Jalisco, así como
también en Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y varias regiones de
España.

Saludos,
Bill Figueroa

Comment

Hola Bill:

Muchas gracias por tu información, varias personas me comentaron lo mismo
que tú, hasta ahora sólo se han publicado los tomos I y II, ojalá pronto
salgan los siguientes.

Yo nací en la Ciudad de México y mi esposo es de Alemania, pero desde hace
25 años radicamos en Herkimer NY, es un lugar pequeño en el valle del río
Mohawk, a más de 4 horas en coche de la Ciudad de Nueva York. Y tú en que
parte de EE.UU. vives?

Saludos

Bertha M. de Boehm

En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

***********************************************
"Böhm-Chronik"
http://www.boehm-chronik.com
600-jährige Geschichte einer Familie
in Schlesien (1329-1948)
***********************************************

Comment

Hola Bertha,

Tengo entendido que el tomo IV aun no se ha publicado, a menos que se haya
hecho muy recientemente. Creo que nada mas se han publicado los tomos I y
II, pero quizás esté equivocado.

Saludos,

Ricardo

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
Boehm-Chronik
Enviado el: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:44 AM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] NAVARRO de Tepatitlan

Hola a Todos

Ojalá que alguno de Uds. pueda ayudarme a conseguir el tomo IV de " Retoños
de España en la Nueva Galicia " en él se encuentra la genealogía de los
Navarro de Tepatitlán. Si alguien lo tiene y no lo quiere vender, tal vez me
pueda hacer el gran favor de escanear las páginas tocantes a esa familia,
que tengo entendido fué una de las primeras 117 que llegaron a Los Altos de
Jalisco a mediados del siglo XVI.

Ya tengo dos años tratando de conseguir ése tomo y no lo encuentro, parece
que está agotado.

Mi abuelo emigró a Guadalajara siendo muy joven con su mamá y hermanos
después de la muerte de su papá (1893)
por lo que mi interés es por mis antepasados del siglo XIX y anteriores.

Agradezco de antemano su ayuda.

Bertha M. Navarro de Boehm
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Comment

Hola Rick:

Gracias por tu pronta respuesta, varias personas contestaron a mi mail y
todos dicen lo mismo que tú, el tomo IV aún no se ha publicado, no me queda
más que esperar con paciencia.

A propósito en nuestra reciente visita a Tepatitlan no pudimos comunicarnos
contigo, tratamos varias veces sin éxito, pero tuvimos suerte de encontrar
el tomo I de Retoños de España..... en el Museo de la Ciudad, así como otros
libros interesantes, a ver si para el año entrante si tenemos el gusto de
conocerte.

Saludos

Bertha M.de Boehm

En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Related to Cosme Felix De La Villa De Bugarin?

After connecting all the dots... it seems my Bugarins mIght be Descendants of Cosme Felix Bugarin....
I have
Margarito Rivera Bugarin My GG Grandpa

Comments

Comment

My ancestor had a twin brother who was you Francisco Dionisio Cuates Bugarin Gonzales. Felix cosme Bugarin came from bayona in norther spain where he was a judge and of "pure blood". just letting you know, saludo

Family Search

I was trying to use Family Search on a computer with Windows XP and IE 7. For all practical purposes it does not work.

Comments

Comment

Is it necessary to use Firefox as your default browser?  I've tried installing twice w/o using it as my default browser and I don't think it is working, as I'm experiencing the same problem with the FamilySearch site.  

--- On Thu, 9/15/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:

From: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 3:38 AM

I was trying to use Family Search on a computer with Windows XP and IE 7. For all practical purposes it does not work.

I went to google, searched for Firefox, and downloaded the current version. This relatively quick, but depends on your internet connection.

I did the standard installation (essentially just follow the instructions: press the "run" button). Started Firefox, searched for Family Search, and everything worked without any problems.

When you install Firefox, you have the option of importing your IE favorites (or bookmarks), although I didn't do this.

I was up and running in less than 5 minutes. The website worked without any problems.

Bottom line: Family Search is not compatible with the older software.

George Fulton
Pleasanton

Comment

No, setting it as default won't make a difference. Have you tried Google
Chrome also?

Armando

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Is it necessary to use Firefox as your default browser? I've tried
> installing twice w/o using it as my default browser and I don't think it is
> working, as I'm experiencing the same problem with the FamilySearch site.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/15/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 3:38 AM
>
>
> I was trying to use Family Search on a computer with Windows XP and IE 7.
> For all practical purposes it does not work.
>
> I went to google, searched for Firefox, and downloaded the current version.
> This relatively quick, but depends on your internet connection.
>
> I did the standard installation (essentially just follow the instructions:
> press the "run" button). Started Firefox, searched for Family Search, and
> everything worked without any problems.
>
> When you install Firefox, you have the option of importing your IE
> favorites (or bookmarks), although I didn't do this.
>
> I was up and running in less than 5 minutes. The website worked without any
> problems.
>
> Bottom line: Family Search is not compatible with the older software.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton

Comment

Armando,
I got Firefox downloaded and working as far as being able to use Familysearch.  However, I can't seem to get my old Yahoo default page with all my mail folders, favorites, etc. to coordinate with it.  The Yahoo page that comes up with Firefox is void of all my previous infromation.  I can access all my info opening the Explorer desktop icon.  Should I dedicate Firefox use solely to researching on Familysearch?    Thanks so much, Alice Blake

--- On Thu, 9/15/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 4:32 AM

No, setting it as default won't make a difference. Have you tried Google
Chrome also?

Armando

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Is it necessary to use Firefox as your default browser?  I've tried
> installing twice w/o using it as my default browser and I don't think it is
> working, as I'm experiencing the same problem with the FamilySearch site.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/15/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 3:38 AM
>
>
> I was trying to use Family Search on a computer with Windows XP and IE 7.
> For all practical purposes it does not work.
>
> I went to google, searched for Firefox, and downloaded the current version.
> This relatively quick, but depends on your internet connection.
>
> I did the standard installation (essentially just follow the instructions:
> press the "run" button). Started Firefox, searched for Family Search, and
> everything worked without any problems.
>
> When you install Firefox, you have the option of importing your IE
> favorites (or bookmarks), although I didn't do this.
>
> I was up and running in less than 5 minutes. The website worked without any
> problems.
>
> Bottom line: Family Search is not compatible with the older software.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton

Comment

Alice,

Those must be different pages of Yahoo. Try copying the URL address from IE
and pasting it into Firefox. Also see the page Importing favorites and other
data from Internet Explorer at
http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Importing%20favorites%20and%20other…

Armando

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando,
> I got Firefox downloaded and working as far as being able to use
> Familysearch. However, I can't seem to get my old Yahoo default page with
> all my mail folders, favorites, etc. to coordinate with it. The Yahoo
> page that comes up with Firefox is void of all my previous infromation. I
> can access all my info opening the Explorer desktop icon. Should I
> dedicate Firefox use solely to researching on Familysearch? Thanks so
> much, Alice Blake
>
> --- On Thu, 9/15/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 4:32 AM
>
>
> No, setting it as default won't make a difference. Have you tried Google
> Chrome also?
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Is it necessary to use Firefox as your default browser? I've tried
> > installing twice w/o using it as my default browser and I don't think it
> is
> > working, as I'm experiencing the same problem with the FamilySearch site.
> >
> > --- On Thu, 9/15/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: gpf13@aol.com
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 3:38 AM
> >
> >
> > I was trying to use Family Search on a computer with Windows XP and IE 7.
> > For all practical purposes it does not work.
> >
> > I went to google, searched for Firefox, and downloaded the current
> version.
> > This relatively quick, but depends on your internet connection.
> >
> > I did the standard installation (essentially just follow the
> instructions:
> > press the "run" button). Started Firefox, searched for Family Search, and
> > everything worked without any problems.
> >
> > When you install Firefox, you have the option of importing your IE
> > favorites (or bookmarks), although I didn't do this.
> >
> > I was up and running in less than 5 minutes. The website worked without
> any
> > problems.
> >
> > Bottom line: Family Search is not compatible with the older software.
> >
> > George Fulton
> > Pleasanton
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Question regarding first names

Dear NR primos,
Would it be common to have different children named "Jose Maria" + a different middle name?

Comments

Comment

Apologies, I tried editing this post and mistakenly posted twice. I couldn't figure out how to delete this post, so if anyone can tell me I'll be glad to do it.

Solicito ayuda para evaluar informacion sobre mis posibles ancestros

Hola foro,

Comments

Comment

HOLA ROBERTO,
Entiendo tu problema, mira yo como lo he hecho es checando cada partida de
bautismo y matrimonio y ver que coincidan los padres, es irte despacito de
generación en generación, checando la coincidencia de los padres, tambien
busca la coincidencia de las fechas, calcula promedio de 20 años entre cada
generación, aunque pueden ser mas o menos, tambien puedes ayudarte buscando
a los hermanos y confirmando que sean del mismo pueblo.

Espero te sirva,

Saludos
Patty

2011/9/15

> Hola foro,
>
> Solicito la ayuda de algun miembro del grupo para evaluar informacion que
> he encontrado sobre mis posibles ancestros (Linea directa Paternal). Tengo
> escasos 2 meses que comence a involucrarme en la busquedad de mis
> ancestros, la poca experiencia que tengo en este tema de la Genealogia me
> hace temer en posibles errores que he cometido a travez de mi busquedad.
> Tengo mas de 30 "snapshots" y los enlaces(links) a actas de bautismo y
> matrimonio (religioso y civil)de quienes pudieran ser mis ancestros. Ya
> tengo confirmado a mi Abuelo Paterno y su Papa'(mi bisabuelo), pero de ahi
> hacia atras... tengo dudas sobre algunas personas. Es por eso que solicito
> la ayuda de algun miembro con experiencia para evaluar la informacion que
> tengo y dejarme saber si estoy en el "camino correcto".
> Si algun miembro tiene el tiempo y desea ayurdarme, pude contactarme
> directo a mi correo o dejarme saber el suyo, o la forma de contactarlo.
>
> De antemano... Muchas Gracias,
> Roberto Hdez

Comment

Martha,

Muchas Gracias por tu consejo. Quizas estoy asumiendo demasiado y estoy "brincando" a la anterior generacion un poco rapido y se me han pasado "pequenos" detalles. Por el momento solo estoy enfocado en mi Linea directa paterna (Hernandez, Region Cienega de Jalisco(La Barca y Ayotlan)), he encontrado actas de matrimonio y de bautismo de hermanos/hermanas de mis posibles ancestros y he hecho comparaciones con los padres, abuelos y lugar de origen, tambien he usado la logica para sacar mis conclusiones. Pero he encontrado algunas discrepancias que me confunden y me hacen dudar. Por ejemplo; la edad que he encontrado en las actas de matrimonio de algunos de mis ancestros estan como 4 a 8 ano's fuera de lugar segun la edad de acuerdo al acta de bautismo, ejemplo...en el acta de matrimonio dice que tiene 24 ano's de edad, cuando en realidad tenian 30. Era "confiable" la edad escrita en las actas de Matrimonio? Tambien he encontrado que algunos hermanos/as usaban diferentes apellidos maternos,al principio esto me confundio mucho porque pense que se trataba de 2 madres diferentes, pero creo que eso era muy comun en aquellos tiempos.

Nuevamente muchas Gracias por el consejo,
Roberto Hdez

Comment

En algunos casos nuestros ancestros no eran muy honestos que digamos con su
edad al momento de casarse ;) por eso es que no cuadra, tambien era muy
comun que se volvieran a casar es por eso que se encuentran hijos del mismo
padre pero con distinta mamá, si tienes mas dudas me imagino que ya has
consultado la información matrimonial...

2011/9/15

> Martha,
>
> Muchas Gracias por tu consejo. Quizas voy un poco rapido y se me han
> pasado "pequenos" detalles. Por el momento solo estoy enfocado en mi Linea
> directa paterna (Hernandez, Region Cienega de Jalisco(La Barca y Ayotlan)),
> he encontrado actas de matrimonio y de bautismo de hermanos/hermanas de mis
> posibles ancestros y he hecho comparaciones con los padres, abuelos y lugar
> de origen, tambien he usado la logica para sacar mis conclusiones. Pero he
> encontrado algunas discrepancias que me confunden y me hacen dudar. Por
> ejemplo; la edad que he encontrado en las actas de matrimonio de algunos de
> mis ancestros estan como 4 a 8 ano's fuera de lugar segun la edad de acuerdo
> al acta de bautismo, en el acta de matrimonio dice que tiene 24 ano's de
> edad, pero en realidad tienen 30. Tambien he encontrado que algunos hermanos
> usan diferentes apellidos maternales, pero creo que eso era muy comun en
> aquellos tiempos.
>
> Nuevamente muchas Gracias por el consejo,
> Roberto Hdez

Marcos Carrillo

Hello everyone,

I have posted on this before but I seem to have hit a
wall. I'm looking for the parents of one of my ancestors,
Marcos Carrillo. His wife was Petra Bermudez and I have found

Comments

Comment

Hello Gustavo,

I have a Juanna Maria Carrillo on my tree from about that period. She married a Pedro Aguirre one of my direct ancestors. They had a daughter and son that I have found so far. The daughter was born in 1806. Does this match any of your information?

Barbara

Comment

this is from the district of Jerez, Zacatecas.  There is also a son Jose Antonio, is this the correct time period?  You didn't say where or when.
.baptism 7 April 1782 in Jerez
Maria Sista Espanola born in San Vicente 11 days old
parents: Pedro Aguirre and Juana Maria Carrillo
pad: Juan Pedro Garcia and Juana Feliciana de la Cruzsource: 0439848 Jerez baptism

From: "andrewsbarbara@charter.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juana Carrillo

Hello Gustavo,

I have a Juanna Maria Carrillo on my tree from about that period.  She married a Pedro Aguirre one of my direct ancestors.  They had a daughter and son that I have found so far.  The daughter was born in 1806.  Does this match any of your information?

Barbara

Comment

The Juana Carrillo that I mentioned was born in Jerez but married
Juan Esteban Perez in Totatiche, Jalisco on May 11,1774. She was
the daughter of Marcos Carrillo. I'm afraid we are talking about
two different persons. Thank you.

Gustavo

Comment

Gustavo, I research in Jerez but do not have Marcos Carrillo and Petra Bermudez.. Can you post their children to see if I have anything on them.  I believe Jomulco is still part of Jerez.
thank you
Linda Castanon-Long in B.C.

From: "sr92809@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 9:16 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marcos Carrillo

Hello everyone,

  I have posted on this before but I seem to have hit a
wall. I'm looking for the parents of one of my ancestors,
Marcos Carrillo. His wife was Petra Bermudez and I have found
documents on about seven of their children. None give information on grandparents. I believe he married between
1745-1750 in Jerez, Zac. Most marriage records for those years in Jerez are missing on the familysearch website, so I have not had any luck finding it, if it even exists.
  When reading some records on their chldren I found that
they lived in a place called Ximulco which then belonged
to the Villa de Jerez. I believe it now belongs to
Huejuquilla el Alto, Jalisco. I have also searched the records
from the church there (San Diego) with no luck. If anyone has any suggestions or could help I would greatly  apreciate it.

Gustavo Carrillo

Comment

Thank you for your reply Linda. I didn't mention that Marcos
Carrillo moved to Totatiche,Jal. around 1760. Most records I
have found for his children are from there. Only three I have
found were actually born in Jerez. Their names were Rafael,
Juana Esmeregilda and Gregorio Carrillo. Gregorio was baptized
in Jerez on Dec.4,1757. The other two I'm not sure but they
were older. I noticed his godparents were the couple, Jose Antonio
Carrillo and Ana de Acuna who were also from Ximulco. I believe
Jose Antonio might be a brother of Marcos but I'm not sure.
Thank You.

What now?

What is going on now at the "new" Family Search site?

My Windows XP with IE8 was working fine, now it seems they have changed things.

Comments

Comment

The functionality of the Family Search website has changed.

There is a different indicator for the page as it loads (I like the old one better).

The controls are all at the top of the screen.

The "full screen" control expands the screen, and stills keeps the control keys available (unlike before).

One of the NR members said they can no longer print a portion of the image. It can still be done, but the best was is to SAVE the image (control is at the right, next to PRINT). Save the image with a meaningful name (change the default "record_image.jpg"). On my computer the default is that downloaded files go into the "Download" folder (I'm using Windows Vista; Windows 7 will be the same): you can change this.

A picture viewer comes with the Windows operating system; there are others that are free (eg, Picassa, as an example), or others you can purchase.

Open the image with a picture viewer, and crop the image to the area you want. You can save the cropped image if you choose.

I verified this process tonight, and it works. Also, I am using the latest version of Mozilla Firefox (this is free software).

It would have been nice if there had been some announcement of the changes, rather than just doing it.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George,

I got an answer from Feedback to my complaint to them when I couldn't figure out last night what had happened to the old functions for the images. I will put that answer up later, since I am so rattled right now I can't think straight. It is such a change, and they don't even give you a warning. I fail to see what the big deal would be to just put up a little announcement about major changes like this. They mentioned that they themselves were still having trouble with the zoom function.

I am especially concerned about no longer being able to print out a perfect clear image of just a portion of the page. That was one of the best features it had. To download the whole page and then crop it later somehow loses the clarity when you enlarge it to view it. A cousin of mine has always downloaded the whole page, then cropped the portion she wants, but then when she sends the image to me and I enlarge it, it is all pixilated because cropping corrupts the clarity, so I had to then find the image myself and then use the former cropping function from the image in order to get a clear image. When I used to crop the image from their former functions, my Windows Picture Viewer provided very clear images no matter what size I printed.

I mentioned to Feedback that the new little double pointed arrows crossed over each other, one horizontal and one vertrical, that appear over the body of the image (where the little hand used to appear) makes the image bounce around all over the place and I could never make the page stand still to browse it. They misunderstood me and thought I meant the zoom arrows at the top bar. I preferred the side and top bars that moved the image, and the little box at the bottom right that showed in yellow the area you were on the page and the zoom size.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:53:14 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search website changes - printing images
>
> The functionality of the Family Search website has changed.
>
> There is a different indicator for the page as it loads (I like the old one better).
>
> The controls are all at the top of the screen.
>
> The "full screen" control expands the screen, and stills keeps the control keys available (unlike before).
>
> One of the NR members said they can no longer print a portion of the image. It can still be done, but the best was is to SAVE the image (control is at the right, next to PRINT). Save the image with a meaningful name (change the default "record_image.jpg"). On my computer the default is that downloaded files go into the "Download" folder (I'm using Windows Vista; Windows 7 will be the same): you can change this.
>
> A picture viewer comes with the Windows operating system; there are others that are free (eg, Picassa, as an example), or others you can purchase.
>
> Open the image with a picture viewer, and crop the image to the area you want. You can save the cropped image if you choose.
>
> I verified this process tonight, and it works. Also, I am using the latest version of Mozilla Firefox (this is free software).
>
> It would have been nice if there had been some announcement of the changes, rather than just doing it.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Emily

I wonder if the software your cousin is using is saving the cropped image with lower resolution. That might the source of the problem; you may want to ask her if she has the option of saving with a higher resolution.

I'm using Microsoft Office Picture Manager on my office machine (Windows 7), and it does not reduce the resolution. On my home machine (Windows Vista), Picassa works similar (not reducing resolution).

Does any NR member have another idea?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George, that is exactly what I think is happening and I was going to say the
same thing. Her cousin is probably doing it to save hard drive space or her
program is doing it without her knowing. It could also be that when she send
the images the email program might be compressing the images.

Emily, the images on FamilySearch have the same resolution as always with
200 dpi and 8 bit depth. There would be no reason for them to change the
resolution of the images. Any image that has bad resolution was like that
from the beginning. Have your cousin send you the link as Barbara suggested.

As far as moving the image around I am not having an issue. As they say the
mouse pointer doesn't change from the arrowed cross to a hand but when I
click on the image I am able to move the image just fine. I actually like
the changes and had always wished the zoom function was at the top and the
hand would lock up on me a lot. I'm hoping these changes fixed that.

You really should try using Firefox www.mozilla.org/firefox or Chrome
www.google.com/chrome

Armando

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote:

> Emily
>
> I wonder if the software your cousin is using is saving the cropped image
> with lower resolution. That might the source of the problem; you may want to
> ask her if she has the option of saving with a higher resolution.
>
> I'm using Microsoft Office Picture Manager on my office machine (Windows
> 7), and it does not reduce the resolution. On my home machine (Windows
> Vista), Picassa works similar (not reducing resolution).
>
> Does any NR member have another idea?
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Emilie,

My problems were resolved when I changed my browser to firefox per your e-mail from the help desk. I too am not having problems and I actually like it better with the latest changes.

Try firefox and see, it could solve all issues.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Armando
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pixilated Images

George, that is exactly what I think is happening and I was going to say the
same thing. Her cousin is probably doing it to save hard drive space or her
program is doing it without her knowing. It could also be that when she send
the images the email program might be compressing the images.

Emily, the images on FamilySearch have the same resolution as always with
200 dpi and 8 bit depth. There would be no reason for them to change the
resolution of the images. Any image that has bad resolution was like that
from the beginning. Have your cousin send you the link as Barbara suggested.

As far as moving the image around I am not having an issue. As they say the
mouse pointer doesn't change from the arrowed cross to a hand but when I
click on the image I am able to move the image just fine. I actually like
the changes and had always wished the zoom function was at the top and the
hand would lock up on me a lot. I'm hoping these changes fixed that.

You really should try using Firefox www.mozilla.org/firefox or Chrome
www.google.com/chrome

Armando

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote:

> Emily
>
> I wonder if the software your cousin is using is saving the cropped image
> with lower resolution. That might the source of the problem; you may want to
> ask her if she has the option of saving with a higher resolution.
>
> I'm using Microsoft Office Picture Manager on my office machine (Windows
> 7), and it does not reduce the resolution. On my home machine (Windows
> Vista), Picassa works similar (not reducing resolution).
>
> Does any NR member have another idea?
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Alicia,

Thanks for your input. I guess I will try downloading Firefox and see what happens. I guess if something goes wrong, the people at Office Depot can fix it.

Emilie

> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:09:32 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pixilated Images
>
> Emilie,
>
> My problems were resolved when I changed my browser to firefox per your e-mail from the help desk. I too am not having problems and I actually like it better with the latest changes.
>
> Try firefox and see, it could solve all issues.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pixilated Images
>
> George, that is exactly what I think is happening and I was going to say the
> same thing. Her cousin is probably doing it to save hard drive space or her
> program is doing it without her knowing. It could also be that when she send
> the images the email program might be compressing the images.
>
>
> Emily, the images on FamilySearch have the same resolution as always with
> 200 dpi and 8 bit depth. There would be no reason for them to change the
> resolution of the images. Any image that has bad resolution was like that
> from the beginning. Have your cousin send you the link as Barbara suggested.
>
> As far as moving the image around I am not having an issue. As they say the
> mouse pointer doesn't change from the arrowed cross to a hand but when I
> click on the image I am able to move the image just fine. I actually like
> the changes and had always wished the zoom function was at the top and the
> hand would lock up on me a lot. I'm hoping these changes fixed that.
>
> You really should try using Firefox www.mozilla.org/firefox or Chrome
> www.google.com/chrome
>
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote:
>
> > Emily
> >
> > I wonder if the software your cousin is using is saving the cropped image
> > with lower resolution. That might the source of the problem; you may want to
> > ask her if she has the option of saving with a higher resolution.
> >
> > I'm using Microsoft Office Picture Manager on my office machine (Windows
> > 7), and it does not reduce the resolution. On my home machine (Windows
> > Vista), Picassa works similar (not reducing resolution).
> >
> > Does any NR member have another idea?
> >
> > George Fulton
> > Pleasanton, CA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Comment

Armando,

Thank you for your input.

What my cousin does is she saves the whole page image, then she somehow crops it (that is where she might not be using the correct resolution), then she uploads it to her Ancestry.com tree. She tells me to look at her tree for all the images and photos and stories she puts up there. So it could be that when I open her images from Ancestry.com, maybe they have compressed it. I hate to ask her to change her routine and just send me the link---that would be an extra step for her. And like many people, she puts all her lines in one tree, not just the one we share, and she has thousands of photos, images, and thousands of people. I tell my cousins to make one tree for each line, but they are so proud to say how many more thousands of people are in their trees.

I don't know what kind of operating program or browser she has, but apparently whatever it is she isn't having any problem with finding images on the new Family Search Viewer, or she would have mentioned it.

I guess I will have to take this computer in and see why it is so slow to open up the home page and the e-mail page. I didn't care about that, but I do care that I can no longer browse the images. I was able to view them perfectly and the computer was not slow when I was on Family Search. Maybe Office Depot can clean it up and install a new better browser, but I am stuck with the XP system.

I wish I was as computer literate as most of the members here (you lost me when you mentioned dpi and bits; I am an old lady that can't learn new tricks.

Thanks again,

Emilie

> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:50:23 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pixilated Images
>
> George, that is exactly what I think is happening and I was going to say the
> same thing. Her cousin is probably doing it to save hard drive space or her
> program is doing it without her knowing. It could also be that when she send
> the images the email program might be compressing the images.
>
>
> Emily, the images on FamilySearch have the same resolution as always with
> 200 dpi and 8 bit depth. There would be no reason for them to change the
> resolution of the images. Any image that has bad resolution was like that
> from the beginning. Have your cousin send you the link as Barbara suggested.
>
> As far as moving the image around I am not having an issue. As they say the
> mouse pointer doesn't change from the arrowed cross to a hand but when I
> click on the image I am able to move the image just fine. I actually like
> the changes and had always wished the zoom function was at the top and the
> hand would lock up on me a lot. I'm hoping these changes fixed that.
>
> You really should try using Firefox www.mozilla.org/firefox or Chrome
> www.google.com/chrome
>
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote:
>
> > Emily
> >
> > I wonder if the software your cousin is using is saving the cropped image
> > with lower resolution. That might the source of the problem; you may want to
> > ask her if she has the option of saving with a higher resolution.
> >
> > I'm using Microsoft Office Picture Manager on my office machine (Windows
> > 7), and it does not reduce the resolution. On my home machine (Windows
> > Vista), Picassa works similar (not reducing resolution).
> >
> > Does any NR member have another idea?
> >
> > George Fulton
> > Pleasanton, CA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Comment

Hello Emilie,

I share your concerns over the resolution issues with Family Search. I intend to share my concerns through their feedback link also. My cousin and I are also researching our family, although different branches, and we email each other the link from the Family Search website we wish to share with one another. Perhaps until this issue is resolved you and your cousin my consider doing the same, just email the link to the page you are sharing. This may help for the time being.

Thanks,
Barbara

Romos -Lagos de Moreno and Aguascalientes. 1770's to early 1800's

After searching for my maternal grandmother (Crecencia Romo Rodriguez) for several years I finally found her. I had been working with wrong birth year and birth location.

Comments

Comment

Hello Aurora,

Do you have an online tree? Can you send me the links to all of the baptisms
and marriages for these people in Lagos de Moreno? I'll see what I can find.
Have you browsed the Información matrimonial 1773-1774 and 1774-1776 for the
marriage of Joaquín Romo de Vivar and Josefa Camarena?

Armando

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Aurora Romo wrote:

>
> After searching for my maternal grandmother (Crecencia Romo Rodriguez) for
> several years I finally found her. I had been working with wrong birth year
> and birth location. She died when my mother was a very small child. Now I
> would like to continue researching my Romo family surname.
>
> Crecencia Romo was born 1885 in Aguascalientes, daughter of Luz Romo Olmos
> (b. abt 1850 in Aguascalientes) and Maria Del Refugio Rodríguez – siblings
> Higinio Romo Rodríguez and Maria Romo Rodríguez.
> Parents of Luz Romo –
> Ynocencio Romo de Alba and Gumencinda Olmos married July 10, 1839, Aguas.
> Children: Maria Vicenta Del Refugio b. 1840, Antonia b. 1841, Maria
> Francisca b. 1842; José De La Cuz b. 1856;’ Macial b. 1860, Ramón Refugio b.
> 1863
>
> Ramón Romo Camarena and Juana de Alba Married March 4, 1810, Lagos de
> Moreno, Jalisco
> Childlren: José Anacleto de la Trinidad b. 1810; José Andrés b. 1812,
> (both in Lagos)
> Maria Bacilia b. 1814; José Hipólito b. 1816; Maria Leonida b. 1818 and
> Ynocencio b. 1819 all in Aguascalientes
>
> Joaquín Romo de Vivar and Josefa Camarena from Lagos Moreno, Jalisco
> Children: Ma. Eustacia b. 1775; Ma. Paula b. 1776; Marta Rosalia b. 1779;
> Petra b. 1784; Anna Maria de Santiago b. 1786; Ma. Guadalupe Alexandra b.
> 1788; Esmerexilda b. 1793; José Ramón abt. 1791; José Ignacio de Jesús b.
> 1795 Marzela b. ¿married 1800 to Jose Lázaro Guerra; and Ma. Dolores
> married Feb. 1795 to Thomas de Alva. – all in Lagos de Moreno
>
> I would appreciate any help on this Romo line.
> Aurora De Anda Romo

Comment

Aurora Romo

Hola Armando,
I have been checking the baptism records for the children of Joaquin Romo and Maria Josefa Camarena. I have checked the names of the "Padrinos" to see if that would help. I found the padrinos of Ma. Rosalia de Los Reyes were Jose Antonio Romo. Jose Antonio is the son of Pedro Romo and Anna Maria Gonzales married 21, Feb, 1740. They are all from Salsipuedes. Perhaps Joaquin is also the son of Pedro? I have not proven that yet. I will check the "informacion matrional" for Joaquin and Josefa Camarena. I am having trouble with FamilySearch Church records. It seems to take much longer to page up and I can no longer copy the individual record to keep for documentation. All I can print is the full page and it is too small. I guess they changed their site again or perhaps I am doing something wrong.

(I have posted family tree info on Roots Magic, My Heritage and Ancestry.com )

Thanks for your help and by the way I believe we are related by way of the Macias Valades branch. Gaspar Macias Valades married to Antonia DeAnda is my GGGGGG grandfather
Aurora DeAnda Romo

GuadalajaraDispensas: 1797-1836 FHL Source Film 168100 / OAH 2337 Extractions Online

Dear fellow members. I posted a new file today: some good ones here!

Now posted: 1797-1836 FHL Source Film 168100
Nuevo archivo: 1797-1836 OAH 2337

www.guadalajaradispensas.com

Comments

Comment

Claudia

Thank you for all the hard work! You found an interesting and useful Villalpando dispensation (Jose Miguel Villalpando marrying Francisca Villapando in Asientos) in one of your earlier posts.

They descend from Tomas de Villapando of Leon.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

To Armando re San Felipe film

Armando,

I just received the message below from Feedback at Family Search.

Comments

Comment

Emily

It is sometimes useful to look at the FHL catalog for details ("film notes") on the films for a specific location. You can get to the catalog from either the old Family Search website, or the current one.

Many times, the film notes are pretty simple (examples from Aguascalientes):

Bautismos 1663-1684

Other times, they will indicate other records:

Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios

Sometimes rather complex:

Bautismos de españoles, Libro 12, abr. 1719-dic. 1733 y una partida de mayo 1728 al final -- Libro 34, sep. 1781-mar. 1786 y una de agosto al final -- Libro 41, abr. 1814-mar. 1816 (Incluye partidas de las parroquias de los pueblos de Jesús María y de San Marcos que pertenecen a la Villa de Aguascalientes) [Bill Figueroa posted some comments on this film a couple of years ago here at Nuestros Ranchos.]

The film "titles" as they appear on Family Search's digitized records typically do not give this level of detail, typical is a beginning and end year, with no indication that there are gaps.

Sometimes a digitized record is actually more than one film. This is the case with some of the dispensation records from Guadalajara that Claudia has been posting in the last week.

To further confuse the issue, not all of the digitized images have the actual film numbers. This is the case for Aguascalientes; more recent digitized files typically do have the film numbers (but not always!).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George,

Thank you for all these helpful hints.

I also see that some of the print-outs I have kept also list a "reference number", and I don't know what that means. I wish they could also include the Image Number; I can dream, no?

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:51:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FHL films
>
> Emily
>
> It is sometimes useful to look at the FHL catalog for details ("film notes") on the films for a specific location. You can get to the catalog from either the old Family Search website, or the current one.
>
> Many times, the film notes are pretty simple (examples from Aguascalientes):
>
> Bautismos 1663-1684
>
> Other times, they will indicate other records:
>
> Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios
>
> Sometimes rather complex:
>
> Bautismos de españoles, Libro 12, abr. 1719-dic. 1733 y una partida de mayo 1728 al final -- Libro 34, sep. 1781-mar. 1786 y una de agosto al final -- Libro 41, abr. 1814-mar. 1816 (Incluye partidas de las parroquias de los pueblos de Jesús María y de San Marcos que pertenecen a la Villa de Aguascalientes) [Bill Figueroa posted some comments on this film a couple of years ago here at Nuestros Ranchos.]
>
> The film "titles" as they appear on Family Search's digitized records typically do not give this level of detail, typical is a beginning and end year, with no indication that there are gaps.
>
> Sometimes a digitized record is actually more than one film. This is the case with some of the dispensation records from Guadalajara that Claudia has been posting in the last week.
>
> To further confuse the issue, not all of the digitized images have the actual film numbers. This is the case for Aguascalientes; more recent digitized files typically do have the film numbers (but not always!).
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Definition and context of term in Civil Records San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco

Page 170 (of 176) in the Civil Birth Records for San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, the following entry refers to "indio" but I cannot determine if it says "no indio" or "ni indio" . . .

Comments

Comment

Hi Roxanne,
I also found the term "no indigena" in Nayarit and Jalisco civil registrations. Also, I believe that the opposite term was "matriculado," to refer to indigenous individuals; I've also seen "de los antes llamados indios." This I know because a family who was previously called "indios" was (after the independence) called "matricullados del pueblo."

My hope is that after the independence everyone was considered "ciudadanos" of the new nation, and had done away with the caste attributions. But apparently, some still felt a need to continue making the determination. (?)

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Comment

I do not know what to tell you about the exact meaning of that term. As you said literally means no indigenous, but why it was use it in this period of time is something I do not know. And I see it odd.I fund a study about "indigenismo en el Occidente de Mexico" It means in Jalisco, Michoacan, etc. that could be a clue about why government started to use the term "no indio" but I am not sure about it.

These are the link and the quote about it

http://www.redinterlocal.org/IMG/pdf_rojas-indigenas_occ_mex.pdf

Es importante remarcar que durante la restauración de la República Federal en 1867, los liberales emprendieron una feroz guerra contra la institución de la comunidad indígena, que influyó formalmente en la abolición de la tierra comunal y de los sistemas locales de autoridad. De manera concomitante, se reforzó la carga negativa del término indio, que incluso fue borrado del lenguaje forense.
Si bien ciertos discursos oficiales ensalzaban el glorioso pasado prehispánico y condenaban el fanatismo virreinal para legitimar el gobierno independiente, los indígenas vivos no se concebían como factor de identidad nacional. Para nacionalizarse, los indígenas tenían que castellanizarnos, tenían que convertirse en propietarios particulares, tenían que participar en el mercado nacional y aceptar que su comunidad no era la local, sino la de la Nación Mexicana. Es decir, que todos teníamos que ser parejos ante la ley.

Good luck!

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Bautismos de Castas, Film 644362

Armando,

In all my years looking at films, I have never seen one like 644362. It has everything but the kitchen sink in there, and groups of records are completely out of order throughout.

Comments

Comment

Emilie,

The records for Lagos de Moreno and Aguascalientes for the same time period
have a similar pattern. See films 221879, 221404, 221504, and 221504 There
actually is an order to them you just have to find where certain records
begin and end and where they start again. The bautismos end and the
casamientos begin on 71. Then other records start on 241 again. The record
you were looking for is on page 72.

En 11 de junio de 1618 case y vele a Juan de Villalpando y a Francisca de la
Rocha fueron los padrinos Martin Veloso y Anna Perez.
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20567-24612-59?cc=186…

Armando

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> Armando,
>
> In all my years looking at films, I have never seen one like 644362. It
> has everything but the kitchen sink in there, and groups of records are
> completely out of order throughout.
>
> The film has bautismos (and I saw many that said "espanola de la Villa")
> for both espanoles and others, and the "casamientos" appear all throughout.
> I found one page for 1618, but it was for Noviembre, never found the one
> for Junio. Maybe some day I will go through the film one image at a time (I
> only spot checked it every 10 pages or so), but right now my husband wants
> his tamale pie.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA

Comment

Armando,

Bless you. I was about to continue looking for the image, but you found it for me.

Thank you so much. I guess what I need to do in future is print out the range of dates for each parish and make notes of what is actually in each film.

Thank you for your perseverance.

Emilie

> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:52:03 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos de Castas, Film 644362
>
> Emilie,
>
> The records for Lagos de Moreno and Aguascalientes for the same time period
> have a similar pattern. See films 221879, 221404, 221504, and 221504 There
> actually is an order to them you just have to find where certain records
> begin and end and where they start again. The bautismos end and the
> casamientos begin on 71. Then other records start on 241 again. The record
> you were looking for is on page 72.
>
> En 11 de junio de 1618 case y vele a Juan de Villalpando y a Francisca de la
> Rocha fueron los padrinos Martin Veloso y Anna Perez.
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20567-24612-59?cc=186…
>
>
> Armando
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Armando,
> >
> > In all my years looking at films, I have never seen one like 644362. It
> > has everything but the kitchen sink in there, and groups of records are
> > completely out of order throughout.
> >
> > The film has bautismos (and I saw many that said "espanola de la Villa")
> > for both espanoles and others, and the "casamientos" appear all throughout.
> > I found one page for 1618, but it was for Noviembre, never found the one
> > for Junio. Maybe some day I will go through the film one image at a time (I
> > only spot checked it every 10 pages or so), but right now my husband wants
> > his tamale pie.
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

GuadalajaraDispensas: 1765, 1795 Source Film 168036 / OAH 2439 Extractions Online

Now posted: 1765, 1795 FHL Source Film 168036
Nuevo archivo: 1765, 1795 OAH 2385

www.guadalajaradispensas.com

Comments

Comment

Gracias Claudia por semejante trabajo, es excelente.

Puse en la búsqueda el apellido Chavez, pero me dio "no results" y sin embargo sé que tienes registrados a algunos Chavez en las listas. No sé si sea un problema del programa o estoy haciendo algo mal. Gracias de nuevo y buena suerte en todo.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

In reply to by Jorge Elias

Comment

Hello Jorge. I'm glad that the blog lists are helping some folks here. Unfortunately, the custom Search bar at the blog doesn;t show results from recent posts. It is something that Google is working out, but for now it may help to use CTRL+F function and search directly from your browser.

Jorge, hola. Me da gusto que les este sirviendo el sitio.
Lamentablemente el "Search bar" del blog no da resultados de los posts mas recientes. Es algo que Google esta trabajando, pero por el momento, seria mejor usar el CTRL+F y bucar directamente desde tu "browser."

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Diego de San Martin, Familias Michel Ordonez en Jalisco.

Estimados colegas de Nuestros Ranchos, Saludos y paso a lo siguiente. Solicito ayuda para encontrar datos sobre Diego de San Martin quien llego a Mexico en epoca de la conquista.

Comments

Comment

Hola José Antonio:

Yo también comparto contigo esta ascendencia, pero estoy un tanto confundido con mis líneas, espero tu puedas confirmarme si estoy en lo correcto:
1. Mi primera línea de Michel, me viene por el hijo de Diego de San Martín, Cristóbal de Ordoñez, casado con Francisca Ruiz Farache, ellos tuvieron por hijo a Juan Michel Ordoñez, quien contrajo matrimonio con Graciana Corona (desconozco el nombre de sus padres), tuvieron por hijo a J I Michel-Ordoñez (no sé que significa el J I), que tengo su fecha de nacimiento en 1609 en Guadalajara, él a su vez casó con Juana Bentancourt Ruiz (tampoco tengo datos de sus padres), ellos tuvieron por hija a Juana Michel y yo desciendo de su matrimonio con Fernando González Corona (hijo de Diego González Corona y Tapia y de Mariana Ruiz Galindo, de Diego si tengo los padres que fueron Hernán González Corona e Inés de Tapia y Aguayo, pero de Mariana no, lo curioso es que creo que otra antepasada mía es hermana de esta Mariana, llamada Juana Ruiz Galindo que casó con Juan de Ortega Maldonado y tuvieron por hija a Casilda que casó con Francisco García de Alba, antepasados directos de mi abuelo que lleva por segundo apellido García de Alba.
Mi pregunta en este punto, ¿Estoy correcto en lo que he escrito o hay por ahí algún error?

2. La segunda línea, esta no he podido establecer el vínculo con Diego de San Martín es la de Gaspar Miguel de Covarrubias y Michel de Betancourt, casado con María Teresa Munguía y Villaseñor. No tengo el nombre de los padres de alguno de ellos, pero creo que la mamá de Miguel debió haber sido hija de J I Michel Ordoñez y de Juana Betancourt Ruiz. Ellos tuvieron por hija a Manuela Beatriz de Covarrubias que casó con el nieto de Francisco García de Alba y de Casilda Ortega Ruiz Galindo, José María García de Alba y Guzmán, también antepasados directos de mi abuelo.
¿En este punto tienes la ascendencia establecida de Gaspar Miguel?

3. Mi tercera línea, es la de otro hijo de Juan Michel-Ordoñez y Graciana Corona, Juan Francisco Michel-Ordoñez y Corona casado con Luisa de Guzmán (no tengo sus padres), ellos tuvieron por hijo a Tomás Michel que casó con Agustina de Vargas (tampoco tengo sus padres), tuvieron por hijo a Francisco Michel que casó con Manuela López Buezo (de quién no tengo más datos, aunque tengo muchos ancestros como López-Buezo, que quizá sean hermanos o primos de esta Manuela, ellos tuvieron por hija a Justa María Michel Buezo, que casó con Lorenzo Preciado Medina, hijo de Nicolás Preciado y de Antonia de Medina, antepasados de todos los Preciado en Tecolotlán y alrededores.

Acerca de la información que solicitas de Diego de San Martín, sólo tengo la que en una ocasión publicaste en un tema de foro aquí mismo en Nuestros Ranchos, dónde cuentas que categorizan a Diego como procedente del norte de España por hablar una lengua portuguesa o gallega.

Bueno espero tu respuesta, quizá mi tío Gabriel Agraz García de Alba, haya tenido información acerca de estos Michel pero no pude conocerlo debido a que cuando murió hace poco más de dos años, yo tenía todavía 14 años y no había iniciado mi árbol genealógico. Actualmente, estoy viendo como puedo acceder a su archivo no publicado para así poder tener valiosa información genealógica de mucha gente que tiene orígenes en Tecolotlán y alrededores. Sí sé de algo, te lo haré saber.

Saludos
Enrique Salvador Agraz

Comment

Jose Antonio Michel
Estimado companero Enrique, gracias por contestar a mi pregunta y que bueno que buscamos la misma linea de los Michel-Ordonez. En contestacion a tu pregunta tengo solo un poco de datos que darte. Yo tengo a Juana Betancourt Ruiz casasda con Juan Francisco II Michel Ordonez y Corona. Una hija de ellos Juana Michel Ordonez y Betancourt casada con Hernan III Gonzales Corona y Ruiz. El fue hijo de Diego Gonz. Corona de Tapia casado con Mariana Ruiz Galindo. Y el fue hijo de Hernan Gonz. Corona de Leon casado con Ines de Tapia y Aguayo. Ines hija del Conquistador Antonio de Aguayo nacido en Portulo, Espana, casado con Elvira Ruiz de la Pena hija del Conquistador Hernan Ruiz de la Pena. Hernan Gonz. Corona de Leon fue hijo de Juan Fernandez Nieto casado con Catalina de Leon y Corona. Juan fue hijo del Conquistador Alonso Martin de Rivera nacido en Villa de Loa Espana y casado con Beatriz Alvarez. Beatriz fue hija del Conquistador Martin Monje nacido en Palos, Espana y casado con Isabel Alvarez Corona hija de Alonso Gutierrez de Leon casado con Ines Alonso Monje.
Tambien tengo a Francisca Ruiz Farache la esposa de Cristobal de Ordonez que fue hija del Conquistador Martin de Ruiz Farache casado con Sabina de Esquivel.Es lo unico por hoy ojala y te sirva de algo. Luego te mando mas. Estamos en contacto y te encargo cualquier dato sobre mi meta principal Don Diego de San Martin. Gracias.

Senovia Landa

My great grandmother Leonor Miranda Landa was seperated from her parents Dario Miranda and Senovia Landa when she was about 5 years old.

Comments

Comment

Rafael,

I'm no expert, I have been researching my ancestors for a very short time. But by comparing the informantion on the Marriage Certificate to the 1930 census information, I would say very posibly... Yes. Looks like "they" corrected Senodia's age from 56 to 36, which would match her age based on the Marriage certificate. If age is indeed 56, then by common sense...wrong person.

Try to find Dario Miranda on the 1930 census, see if your great grandmother Leonor was living with him at that time. Looks like Senodia Landa was living by herself in Zacatecas during 1930.

Roberto Hdez

Comment

Thanks Roberto for your help and advice.
I have looked for both Dario and Leonor Miranda in the 1930 census, but have not found them.
Rafael Meraz

Tomas de Villalpando's descendants

I have just posted a report with four generations of descendants of Tomas de Villalpando and Maria de Veles, of Leon, GTO. Their descendants lived in Aguascalientes and Asientos.

GuadalajaraDispensas: 1799 Source Film 168109 / OAH 2439 extracted - online

HI all

Now posted: 1799 Source Film 168109
Nuevo archivo: 1799 OAH 2439

www.guadalajaradispensas.com

This completes the 1,605 images in the 1799 link. Have a great weekend.

Comments

Comment

Claudia

Thank you for your gift to all of us as Nuestros Ranchos!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA