No se si con ustedes pase lo mismo , pero no puedo abrir la pagina de family search
The system is a bit slow however it looks like more records were posted today.
Anisabel Santamaria
Before "migrating" from New Mexico from where did your family begin its journey?
My moms side Villalpando appears Guanajuato, Zacatecas.. but originally from Spain.. my fathers side Dones and Hernandez San Luis Potosi, Venado. Which in researching the history everyone there came from Tlaxcala and Spain. I'm in the latter part of 1700's. My moms other side Velarde from Spain also.
Amalia Hernandez Aria
We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
It is my understanding that the LDS church has a ritual "Baptism of the Dead" which is why they gathered on microfilm all the documentation from as many countries as they could.
I once used a computer at my local Family Search Center where an LDS member had left it on with their password activated. When I entered my grandfather's name to search for his ancestors, I was astounded to see an unfamiliar form come up, one that "sealed" my grandfather and all his ancestors to the LDS, not once but several times from different locations that the LDS has. He and his had been baptized as a Mormons!
When I demanded an explanation, I was told about the ritual requirement of LDS members and "sealing". I explained that my grandfather and his ancestors had all been baptized Catholic for centuries, and that perhaps he was rolling in his grave. I was told my grandfather could "choose" to remain Catholic.
So, despite the revelation that my grandfather might not be too pleased, I, however, am pleased about the ability to "know" my ancestors.
I realize that the whole system was set up for Mormons for their purpose without our input, and that we are the beneficiaries of a system to come up with family trees even if we can't have it our way. The system is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program to which we can have input.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:18:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
>
> During that time changes have been made to Record Search, the availability of records has dramatically increased, but new records have not been added to Pilot, and the functionality has been improved. There were things with the Pilot Search feature that I thought were better, although I have recently noticed that the Record Search search feature has changed also. I’m not sure how the system works with accented letters, for example. I have found I cannot put in words with accents, but the results may have accents, depending on how the data was entered.
>
> The advanced search works OK, but improvements could be made. The “match term exactly” check box seems to be “sort of” workable; I still get results that don’t match, but these seem to be separated from the others (ie, further down on the list).
>
> A feature I like is that I can copy text from Record Search results, but could not from Pilot.
>
> I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
>
> The older IGI, which is still available, has some features that are nice, but once again, it has been rather limited in the available data, and some of the search features there are subject to rather arbitrary constraints. New data is not being added. “Limited” is perhaps an odd term; there are millions of records in the IGI, but there are billions at Record Search.
>
> I had considered the three systems complementary, rather than mutually exclusive, and developed some processes for effective and hopefully, thorough search. As Record Search continues to improve, the features that were in Pilot will seem less useful.
>
> I can see Record Search continuing to evolve. As many more records go online, the current structure for finding specific record sets is going to get unwieldy, so changes will need to be made.
>
> I can also envision the search functionality getting to be more sophisticated. I would like to see the addition of a wildcard search.
>
> Rather than complain, I would suggest we offer constructive comments. We should note that the developers must look at our suggestions in view of the bigger user group. A change that effects only a small set of users, while not addressing the larger issues is not a good use of resources. This also goes with what records are made available when. There are certain areas that I would really like to see, but they may be further down on the list, and will eventually get there. I was thrilled when Aguascalientes came on line, and was a little dismayed that Zacatecas was at the end of the alphabet. Needless to say, when it came on line, I was pleased. We need some patience.
>
> I look back at the hours I’ve spent at the old microfilm readers (not to mention the cost), and recall marking the spools of film with little pieces of paper so I could take it to the scanner/printer people to get a print, that was sometimes good, but more often not. The digital images we have today are really pretty amazing. We’ve come a long ways since then, and will continue to improve.
>
> I, for one, am truly grateful for the resources we have been given.
>
> George Fulton
I Second that.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:18:19
To:
Reply-to: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
During that time changes have been made to Record Search, the availability of records has dramatically increased, but new records have not been added to Pilot, and the functionality has been improved. There were things with the Pilot Search feature that I thought were better, although I have recently noticed that the Record Search search feature has changed also. I’m not sure how the system works with accented letters, for example. I have found I cannot put in words with accents, but the results may have accents, depending on how the data was entered.
The advanced search works OK, but improvements could be made. The “match term exactly” check box seems to be “sort of” workable; I still get results that don’t match, but these seem to be separated from the others (ie, further down on the list).
A feature I like is that I can copy text from Record Search results, but could not from Pilot.
I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
The older IGI, which is still available, has some features that are nice, but once again, it has been rather limited in the available data, and some of the search features there are subject to rather arbitrary constraints. New data is not being added. “Limited” is perhaps an odd term; there are millions of records in the IGI, but there are billions at Record Search.
I had considered the three systems complementary, rather than mutually exclusive, and developed some processes for effective and hopefully, thorough search. As Record Search continues to improve, the features that were in Pilot will seem less useful.
I can see Record Search continuing to evolve. As many more records go online, the current structure for finding specific record sets is going to get unwieldy, so changes will need to be made.
I can also envision the search functionality getting to be more sophisticated. I would like to see the addition of a wildcard search.
Rather than complain, I would suggest we offer constructive comments. We should note that the developers must look at our suggestions in view of the bigger user group. A change that effects only a small set of users, while not addressing the larger issues is not a good use of resources. This also goes with what records are made available when. There are certain areas that I would really like to see, but they may be further down on the list, and will eventually get there. I was thrilled when Aguascalientes came on line, and was a little dismayed that Zacatecas was at the end of the alphabet. Needless to say, when it came on line, I was pleased. We need some patience.
I look back at the hours I’ve spent at the old microfilm readers (not to mention the cost), and recall marking the spools of film with little pieces of paper so I could take it to the scanner/printer people to get a print, that was sometimes good, but more often not. The digital images we have today are really pretty amazing. We’ve come a long ways since then, and will continue to improve.
I, for one, am truly grateful for the resources we have been given.
George Fulton
I had hoped that the information stored in the different resources and their best features would be consolidted into one superior source.
--- On Tue, 8/23/11, paul.gomez@verizon.net wrote:
From: paul.gomez@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, "George Fulton"
Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 6:27 PM
I Second that.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:18:19
To:
Reply-to: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
During that time changes have been made to Record Search, the availability of records has dramatically increased, but new records have not been added to Pilot, and the functionality has been improved. There were things with the Pilot Search feature that I thought were better, although I have recently noticed that the Record Search search feature has changed also. I’m not sure how the system works with accented letters, for example. I have found I cannot put in words with accents, but the results may have accents, depending on how the data was entered.
The advanced search works OK, but improvements could be made. The “match term exactly” check box seems to be “sort of” workable; I still get results that don’t match, but these seem to be separated from the others (ie, further down on the list).
A feature I like is that I can copy text from Record Search results, but could not from Pilot.
I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
The older IGI, which is still available, has some features that are nice, but once again, it has been rather limited in the available data, and some of the search features there are subject to rather arbitrary constraints. New data is not being added. “Limited” is perhaps an odd term; there are millions of records in the IGI, but there are billions at Record Search.
I had considered the three systems complementary, rather than mutually exclusive, and developed some processes for effective and hopefully, thorough search. As Record Search continues to improve, the features that were in Pilot will seem less useful.
I can see Record Search continuing to evolve. As many more records go online, the current structure for finding specific record sets is going to get unwieldy, so changes will need to be made.
I can also envision the search functionality getting to be more sophisticated. I would like to see the addition of a wildcard search.
Rather than complain, I would suggest we offer constructive comments. We should note that the developers must look at our suggestions in view of the bigger user group. A change that effects only a small set of users, while not addressing the larger issues is not a good use of resources. This also goes with what records are made available when. There are certain areas that I would really like to see, but they may be further down on the list, and will eventually get there. I was thrilled when Aguascalientes came on line, and was a little dismayed that Zacatecas was at the end of the alphabet. Needless to say, when it came on line, I was pleased. We need some patience.
I look back at the hours I’ve spent at the old microfilm readers (not to mention the cost), and recall marking the spools of film with little pieces of paper so I could take it to the scanner/printer people to get a print, that was sometimes good, but more often not. The digital images we have today are really pretty amazing. We’ve come a long ways since then, and will continue to improve.
I, for one, am truly grateful for the resources we have been given.
George Fulton
I appreciate your thoughts, and realize that on a forward basis, it's all we have. Unfortunately, it is all we have.
>>We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
True, but the suggestion was that something equally as good and functional would be the derivative. They have failed tremendously on that score.
>>I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
So would I. Unfortunately, while I have given the new record search every chance, hundreds of times even, and it consistently fails to produce records that I have been able to locate rather quickly and easily on the pilot. But that may just be my experience.
When billions of records are added but a simple set of data will not produce the results - let alone identify a record we know to exist - the addition of billions of records becomes worthless. God knows I've entered specific data and received 1,500 solid matches at the Pilot, then found the similar data gets me 48 records on Record search - with fully half those records being well beyond the parameters identified and those bad matches are not relegated to the "these records don't match but maybe..." section, rather they appear in the main return.
Yes, the Record Search will grow and improve - I hope/pray - in time, because interim my research is at a standstill. I've been up half the night madly copying (and yes, I have been able to copy records out of the Pilot, not sure why you couldn't) in a Hail-Mary-Pass attempt.
It seems those of us who cannot get records from the new Record Search are doomed to keep visiting every so many months and pray. I'm hoping someone has solid suggestions to offer to revive my research instead of letting it gather dust.
Bunny---
I don't know if you've read my comment about how and why the LDS church gathered as much documentation from all over the world and put it on microfilm. They are not going to "un-baptize" my grandfather and his ancestors, who I feel were baptized as Mormons without their permission, them being dead for centuries. He and his ancestors are sealed as Mormons forever, as is everyone on those films, and only LDS members can access that info through their private passwords. Their system is not one we have input into. It is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program that we have any input into. They are trying to keep up with newer technology, but as we say about Microsoft, "if it ain't broken, why change it?" I am afraid that at my age, I will be only a memory before all the microfilms are digitized and indexed online.
The reason we can access some of what they have microfilmed is that that was the deal when they approached the church archives, etc to do the microfilming---the information gathered had to be shared with the public.
So, with the loss of the wonderful indexing that the Pilot program and the IGI gave us for so long, we are back now to tediously viewing microfilms, since without reliable indexes, we have no other recourse, and we still have to send for those microfilms not yet digitized and view them at our local Family History Centers. At least we can now do much of the viewing of the microfilms from the comfort of our homes.
If I could afford a better computer, I would help with the indexing, etc. since that is one way to speed up the process in conjunction with the LDS. I tried, but my computer didn't match the specs required to download the indexing program. Being on a fixed income I have to buy what I need, not what I want. I am blessed to have what I do have.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: bbbunny@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:56:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and realize that on a forward basis, it's all we have. Unfortunately, it is all we have.
>
> >>We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
>
> True, but the suggestion was that something equally as good and functional would be the derivative. They have failed tremendously on that score.
>
>
> >>I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
>
> So would I. Unfortunately, while I have given the new record search every chance, hundreds of times even, and it consistently fails to produce records that I have been able to locate rather quickly and easily on the pilot. But that may just be my experience.
>
> When billions of records are added but a simple set of data will not produce the results - let alone identify a record we know to exist - the addition of billions of records becomes worthless. God knows I've entered specific data and received 1,500 solid matches at the Pilot, then found the similar data gets me 48 records on Record search - with fully half those records being well beyond the parameters identified and those bad matches are not relegated to the "these records don't match but maybe..." section, rather they appear in the main return.
>
> Yes, the Record Search will grow and improve - I hope/pray - in time, because interim my research is at a standstill. I've been up half the night madly copying (and yes, I have been able to copy records out of the Pilot, not sure why you couldn't) in a Hail-Mary-Pass attempt.
>
> It seems those of us who cannot get records from the new Record Search are doomed to keep visiting every so many months and pray. I'm hoping someone has solid suggestions to offer to revive my research instead of letting it gather dust.
>
>
I believe that we're all dealing with two religious entities, first of all the Catholic Church and second the Mormon Church.
1. Were it not for the well documented efforts of the Catholic Church that for many years functioned as the official government, we wouldn't have these records.
2. Were it not for the practices of the Mormon Church to take these records and seal them, we wouldn't have access to these records and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I for one am very grateful to the religious and government entities that have provided the documentation and have made it available to us, sometimes free of charge and sometimes for a fee. As we've transitioned from the microfilmed records to the on-line familysearch, to the pilot site and now to the digitized records, we've had to adapt to whatever is provided and to the specified conditions, each new change brings it's joys and it's challenges.
Change is constant and on-going as evidenced by the records we see going back to the mid 15th century in the Americas. We adapt to the changes and learn to use what's available. We might grumble as we sift through marriage records that don't include the names of the parents for the bride and groom. We might get exasperated when we find mistakes, when we find what we know is an error but can't take it up to anyone to disupute the error or have corrections made. It takes patience, perseverance and perspective. It takes a little insanity and some imagination but most of all it takes patience, perseverance, a lot of hard work and dedication to do what we do.
Yes, frustration is just part of the process....there are days when I get so fed up and think to myself, that's enough, I'm not going to do this anymore, it takes sooo much of my time and even when I'm not doing research, my mind is still wandering telling me I must keep going. That's what I call my insanity and I know that I will keep going, roadblocks and all.
These are my cinco centavos and I'll get off my soapbox.
Alicia,
San Jose,Ca
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
Bunny---
I don't know if you've read my comment about how and why the LDS church gathered as much documentation from all over the world and put it on microfilm. They are not going to "un-baptize" my grandfather and his ancestors, who I feel were baptized as Mormons without their permission, them being dead for centuries. He and his ancestors are sealed as Mormons forever, as is everyone on those films, and only LDS members can access that info through their private passwords. Their system is not one we have input into. It is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program that we have any input into. They are trying to keep up with newer technology, but as we say about Microsoft, "if it ain't broken, why change it?" I am afraid that at my age, I will be only a memory before all the microfilms are digitized and indexed online.
The reason we can access some of what they have microfilmed is that that was the deal when they approached the church archives, etc to do the microfilming---the information gathered had to be shared with the public.
So, with the loss of the wonderful indexing that the Pilot program and the IGI gave us for so long, we are back now to tediously viewing microfilms, since without reliable indexes, we have no other recourse, and we still have to send for those microfilms not yet digitized and view them at our local Family History Centers. At least we can now do much of the viewing of the microfilms from the comfort of our homes.
If I could afford a better computer, I would help with the indexing, etc. since that is one way to speed up the process in conjunction with the LDS. I tried, but my computer didn't match the specs required to download the indexing program. Being on a fixed income I have to buy what I need, not what I want. I am blessed to have what I do have.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: bbbunny@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:56:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and realize that on a forward basis, it's all we have. Unfortunately, it is all we have.
>
> >>We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
>
> True, but the suggestion was that something equally as good and functional would be the derivative. They have failed tremendously on that score.
>
>
> >>I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
>
> So would I. Unfortunately, while I have given the new record search every chance, hundreds of times even, and it consistently fails to produce records that I have been able to locate rather quickly and easily on the pilot. But that may just be my experience.
>
> When billions of records are added but a simple set of data will not produce the results - let alone identify a record we know to exist - the addition of billions of records becomes worthless. God knows I've entered specific data and received 1,500 solid matches at the Pilot, then found the similar data gets me 48 records on Record search - with fully half those records being well beyond the parameters identified and those bad matches are not relegated to the "these records don't match but maybe..." section, rather they appear in the main return.
>
> Yes, the Record Search will grow and improve - I hope/pray - in time, because interim my research is at a standstill. I've been up half the night madly copying (and yes, I have been able to copy records out of the Pilot, not sure why you couldn't) in a Hail-Mary-Pass attempt.
>
> It seems those of us who cannot get records from the new Record Search are doomed to keep visiting every so many months and pray. I'm hoping someone has solid suggestions to offer to revive my research instead of letting it gather dust.
>
>
Alicia,
You brought a smile to the end of my hard day at work....You have aptly
expressed what all of us believe, I am sure!
Thanks!
Nancy
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Alicia
Carrillo
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:52 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] We all need patience, perseverance and
perspective
I believe that we're all dealing with two religious entities, first of all
the Catholic Church and second the Mormon Church.
1. Were it not for the well documented efforts of the Catholic Church that
for many years functioned as the official government, we wouldn't have these
records.
2. Were it not for the practices of the Mormon Church to take these records
and seal them, we wouldn't have access to these records and we wouldn't be
having this discussion.
I for one am very grateful to the religious and government entities that
have provided the documentation and have made it available to us, sometimes
free of charge and sometimes for a fee. As we've transitioned from the
microfilmed records to the on-line familysearch, to the pilot site and now
to the digitized records, we've had to adapt to whatever is provided and to
the specified conditions, each new change brings it's joys and it's
challenges.
Change is constant and on-going as evidenced by the records we see going
back to the mid 15th century in the Americas. We adapt to the changes and
learn to use what's available. We might grumble as we sift through marriage
records that don't include the names of the parents for the bride and groom.
We might get exasperated when we find mistakes, when we find what we know is
an error but can't take it up to anyone to disupute the error or have
corrections made. It takes patience, perseverance and perspective. It takes
a little insanity and some imagination but most of all it takes patience,
perseverance, a lot of hard work and dedication to do what we do.
Yes, frustration is just part of the process....there are days when I get so
fed up and think to myself, that's enough, I'm not going to do this anymore,
it takes sooo much of my time and even when I'm not doing research, my mind
is still wandering telling me I must keep going. That's what I call my
insanity and I know that I will keep going, roadblocks and all.
These are my cinco centavos and I'll get off my soapbox.
Alicia,
San Jose,Ca
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
Bunny---
I don't know if you've read my comment about how and why the LDS church
gathered as much documentation from all over the world and put it on
microfilm. They are not going to "un-baptize" my grandfather and his
ancestors, who I feel were baptized as Mormons without their permission,
them being dead for centuries. He and his ancestors are sealed as Mormons
forever, as is everyone on those films, and only LDS members can access that
info through their private passwords. Their system is not one we have input
into. It is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program that we have
any input into. They are trying to keep up with newer technology, but as
we say about Microsoft, "if it ain't broken, why change it?" I am afraid
that at my age, I will be only a memory before all the microfilms are
digitized and indexed online.
The reason we can access some of what they have microfilmed is that that
was the deal when they approached the church archives, etc to do the
microfilming---the information gathered had to be shared with the public.
So, with the loss of the wonderful indexing that the Pilot program and the
IGI gave us for so long, we are back now to tediously viewing microfilms,
since without reliable indexes, we have no other recourse, and we still
have to send for those microfilms not yet digitized and view them at our
local Family History Centers. At least we can now do much of the viewing of
the microfilms from the comfort of our homes.
If I could afford a better computer, I would help with the indexing, etc.
since that is one way to speed up the process in conjunction with the LDS.
I tried, but my computer didn't match the specs required to download the
indexing program. Being on a fixed income I have to buy what I need, not
what I want. I am blessed to have what I do have.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: bbbunny@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:56:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and realize that on a forward basis, it's all
we have. Unfortunately, it is all we have.
>
> >>We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away
eventually.
>
> True, but the suggestion was that something equally as good and functional
would be the derivative. They have failed tremendously on that score.
>
>
> >>I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has
been transferred to Record Search.
>
> So would I. Unfortunately, while I have given the new record search every
chance, hundreds of times even, and it consistently fails to produce records
that I have been able to locate rather quickly and easily on the pilot. But
that may just be my experience.
>
> When billions of records are added but a simple set of data will not
produce the results - let alone identify a record we know to exist - the
addition of billions of records becomes worthless. God knows I've entered
specific data and received 1,500 solid matches at the Pilot, then found the
similar data gets me 48 records on Record search - with fully half those
records being well beyond the parameters identified and those bad matches
are not relegated to the "these records don't match but maybe..." section,
rather they appear in the main return.
>
> Yes, the Record Search will grow and improve - I hope/pray - in time,
because interim my research is at a standstill. I've been up half the night
madly copying (and yes, I have been able to copy records out of the Pilot,
not sure why you couldn't) in a Hail-Mary-Pass attempt.
>
> It seems those of us who cannot get records from the new Record Search are
doomed to keep visiting every so many months and pray. I'm hoping someone
has solid suggestions to offer to revive my research instead of letting it
gather dust.
>
>
Very well said, Alicia.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Alicia Carrillo
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 20:51:51
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Reply-to: general@nuestrosranchos.org, Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] We all need patience, perseverance and perspective
I believe that we're all dealing with two religious entities, first of all the Catholic Church and second the Mormon Church.
1. Were it not for the well documented efforts of the Catholic Church that for many years functioned as the official government, we wouldn't have these records.
2. Were it not for the practices of the Mormon Church to take these records and seal them, we wouldn't have access to these records and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I for one am very grateful to the religious and government entities that have provided the documentation and have made it available to us, sometimes free of charge and sometimes for a fee. As we've transitioned from the microfilmed records to the on-line familysearch, to the pilot site and now to the digitized records, we've had to adapt to whatever is provided and to the specified conditions, each new change brings it's joys and it's challenges.
Change is constant and on-going as evidenced by the records we see going back to the mid 15th century in the Americas. We adapt to the changes and learn to use what's available. We might grumble as we sift through marriage records that don't include the names of the parents for the bride and groom. We might get exasperated when we find mistakes, when we find what we know is an error but can't take it up to anyone to disupute the error or have corrections made. It takes patience, perseverance and perspective. It takes a little insanity and some imagination but most of all it takes patience, perseverance, a lot of hard work and dedication to do what we do.
Yes, frustration is just part of the process....there are days when I get so fed up and think to myself, that's enough, I'm not going to do this anymore, it takes sooo much of my time and even when I'm not doing research, my mind is still wandering telling me I must keep going. That's what I call my insanity and I know that I will keep going, roadblocks and all.
These are my cinco centavos and I'll get off my soapbox.
Alicia,
San Jose,Ca
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
Bunny---
I don't know if you've read my comment about how and why the LDS church gathered as much documentation from all over the world and put it on microfilm. They are not going to "un-baptize" my grandfather and his ancestors, who I feel were baptized as Mormons without their permission, them being dead for centuries. He and his ancestors are sealed as Mormons forever, as is everyone on those films, and only LDS members can access that info through their private passwords. Their system is not one we have input into. It is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program that we have any input into. They are trying to keep up with newer technology, but as we say about Microsoft, "if it ain't broken, why change it?" I am afraid that at my age, I will be only a memory before all the microfilms are digitized and indexed online.
The reason we can access some of what they have microfilmed is that that was the deal when they approached the church archives, etc to do the microfilming---the information gathered had to be shared with the public.
So, with the loss of the wonderful indexing that the Pilot program and the IGI gave us for so long, we are back now to tediously viewing microfilms, since without reliable indexes, we have no other recourse, and we still have to send for those microfilms not yet digitized and view them at our local Family History Centers. At least we can now do much of the viewing of the microfilms from the comfort of our homes.
If I could afford a better computer, I would help with the indexing, etc. since that is one way to speed up the process in conjunction with the LDS. I tried, but my computer didn't match the specs required to download the indexing program. Being on a fixed income I have to buy what I need, not what I want. I am blessed to have what I do have.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: bbbunny@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:56:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> I appreciate your thoughts, and realize that on a forward basis, it's all we have. Unfortunately, it is all we have.
>
> >>We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
>
> True, but the suggestion was that something equally as good and functional would be the derivative. They have failed tremendously on that score.
>
>
> >>I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
>
> So would I. Unfortunately, while I have given the new record search every chance, hundreds of times even, and it consistently fails to produce records that I have been able to locate rather quickly and easily on the pilot. But that may just be my experience.
>
> When billions of records are added but a simple set of data will not produce the results - let alone identify a record we know to exist - the addition of billions of records becomes worthless. God knows I've entered specific data and received 1,500 solid matches at the Pilot, then found the similar data gets me 48 records on Record search - with fully half those records being well beyond the parameters identified and those bad matches are not relegated to the "these records don't match but maybe..." section, rather they appear in the main return.
>
> Yes, the Record Search will grow and improve - I hope/pray - in time, because interim my research is at a standstill. I've been up half the night madly copying (and yes, I have been able to copy records out of the Pilot, not sure why you couldn't) in a Hail-Mary-Pass attempt.
>
> It seems those of us who cannot get records from the new Record Search are doomed to keep visiting every so many months and pray. I'm hoping someone has solid suggestions to offer to revive my research instead of letting it gather dust.
>
>
I recently report an error with the title of a Guanajuato digitized film, and received a very nice reply:
From: Support
To: gpf13
If you've already had this conversation, would someone kindly point me in its the direction on the website?
The former "Pilot Search" site has been a blessing untold to my research.
>>Ive had some conversations with some brothers here from the Mormon church and they told me that the pilot site was from the onset just a working tool for bigger and better things yet to come . They also mentioned that they were not going to reinstate it .
Welester
Thanks Welester. =)
I understand baby steps and that the pilot was intended as a tool for development, but I do get upset when the product of said development is retrograde yet touted as an improvement. I could go on a full scale rant here, but it would serve no value other than to call the developers at the Church (I'm not blasting the Church!) utter morons for thinking we cannot see that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
I'm totally intrigued that they keep the site previous to the pilot and this "improvement" open and functioning. I don't understand why they can't similarly leave the pilot up and let it do some good. There is no need to upgrade or otherwise support it. It functions just fine in its own little corner of the server, not bothering anyone. Even Microsoft deigns to leave their old product templates up for users with old tools.
But alas, our complaints and appeals have fallen on deaf ears and we are returned to my original question:
How are you planning to progress in your research without a good functional tool? Am I the only one still working on people back to the 1600s? Are we going back to developing our own mini-databases after we spend hours cataloging a role of film?
I also was much more productive with the pilot site. Is there anything we can do to keep it running.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: bbbunny@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 06:23:28
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Is anyone besides me devastated about
FamilySearch.org?
If you've already had this conversation, would someone kindly point me in its the direction on the website?
The former "Pilot Search" site has been a blessing untold to my research. My tree and information has grown by leaps and bounds since it came online a couple years back. And now they are shutting it down in favor of the new site whose database is no more malleable than an excel spreadsheet.
I don't know where or how I will be able to continue any meaningful research when the Pilot Search closes tomorrow. I keep trying to give the new, "improved" site a change, but consistently I find that the identical criteria entered into both sites will produce vastly different results. Always, the Pilot Search provides me with easily 1,000 more records to peruse than the new site, and it frequently will produce the answer I need, where as the new site has only once given me the record I needed. Things like the ability to peruse spouse names in records at one time (and again, more than 1,000 if I so desire) are going to be lost.
I've left this type of input and more in the suggestion box and on the comments section but alas, the many voices are ignored and tomorrow it comes to an end.
It seems to me that my research has been effectively killed when an improved site cannot provide what the pilot site could. So I'm wondering, what are all of you going to do in order to find the records you need?
Thanks,
Annette
Ive had some conversations with some brothers here from the Mormon church and they told me that the pilot site was from the onset just a working tool for bigger and better things yet to come . They also mentioned that they were not going to reinstate it .
Welester
> I also was much more productive with the pilot site. Is there anything we can do to keep it running.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Numerous times I found records on the pilot that do not show up on the new website. For example, I found a record on each of my grandfathers in the pilot that does not come up in the new website.
R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Lester Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:58:01
To: Bill Figueroa
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Is anyone besides me devastated
aboutFamilySearch.org?
Ive had some conversations with some brothers here from the Mormon church and they told me that the pilot site was from the onset just a working tool for bigger and better things yet to come . They also mentioned that they were not going to reinstate it .
Welester
> I also was much more productive with the pilot site. Is there anything we can do to keep it running.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Yes, that was my understanding, I.e,, "temporary". As with anything else "baby steps" come first before walking".
Hola a todos.
Desde hace algunos meses he estado avanzando en encontrar mas ancestros
de mi familia he llegado al punto de no poder avanzar mas por lo cual
nuevamente solicito de su ayuda para
Hola a todos!!!!!
Su biabuelo segun que yo encontre fue bautizado el 2 de junio de 1893 en la parroquia
de San Juan Bautista, San Juan de los Lagos.
Daniel Méndez Camino
ya que eres nueva en esto de la genealogia, no se si sepas que hacer con el
dato que tan amablemente te proporciono Daniel, ahora tienes que ir a family
search donde encontrarás digitalizados muchos de los libros de las
parroquias
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
,
este enlace te lleva directo a los libros de la parroquia de San Juan de los
lagos
ahi busca por fecha la partida bautismal de tu bisabuelo, donde encontraras
los nombres de sus padres y con un poco de suerte los de sus abuelos...
Ya con estos datos te vas al buscador de family search
https://www.familysearch.org/y los buscas ahi y vuelves a empezar.....
Y esto se repite una y otra vez....., si necesitas ayuda para interpretar el
registro, copia el link y pidenos ayuda con mucho gusto te lo interpretamos,
con el tiempo tambien te acostumbraras a entender los registros
Mucha Suerte!!!
pd. inscribete a la pagina de family search, no tiene costo y si estas
inscrita te arrojara mejores resultados!!
2011/8/22 Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
>
>
> Su biabuelo segun que yo encontre fue bautizado el 2 de junio de 1893 en la
> parroquia
> de San Juan Bautista, San Juan de los Lagos.
>
>
> Daniel Méndez Camino
>
>
Hola Daniel,
Ella busca mas datos del abuelo de esa persona del mismo nombre. Era
Francisco de Paul Gutiérrez Flores que fue bautizado el 2 de junio de 1893.
El abuelo de Francisco de Paul Gutiérrez Flores era Francisco Gutiérrez cc
María Refugio García de los cuales no tiene más datos.
Armando
2011/8/22 Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
>
>
> Su biabuelo segun que yo encontre fue bautizado el 2 de junio de 1893 en la
> parroquia
> de San Juan Bautista, San Juan de los Lagos.
>
>
> Daniel Méndez Camino
>
>
My Spanish is limited and I have found something curious. Mateo Alviso and his son Calixto Alviso had back to back dispensas done and I need help with the translation.
Hi Maureen
I went to see the file you mentioned and I, as Angelina, didn’t see noting exceptional just the need of dispensation for the coupe because they were related in 3th grade. That means that they were may be cousins. You will more certain of their kinship when you´ll find their Guadalajara´s records. I transcribed the entire document 1 in Spanish (as you see my English in not handsome at all!) I hope this way it will be easier to understand.
In the second document the details are the same, but the date (16 and 30 sep) and the names of the couple. That´s odd more if you said they are father and son. Is it possible that they were brothers instead of father and son?
I attach here the document, good luck!
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3926
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Dear Jorge:
Thank you so much, that helps! Now another question. I have look at the Guadajara records and there are cofraidias ordenes, etc, but no dispensas. Can someone direct me to the Guadalajara dispensas? Where might they be found?
Maureen Bejar
Most dispensas are found in the Matrimonios volumes of Diócesis de
Guadalajara
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
There are also some dispensas under San Juan de los Lagos
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
Armando
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 9:08 AM, wrote:
> Dear Jorge:
> Thank you so much, that helps! Now another question. I have look at the
> Guadajara records and there are cofraidias ordenes, etc, but no dispensas.
> Can someone direct me to the Guadalajara dispensas? Where might they be
> found?
>
> Maureen Bejar
Hello Mytmo,
I took a look at the images you mentioned and I did not see anything that
was worth pulling out. It looks like they are just a confirmations that the
dispensations were granted in Guadalajara. I would look for the original
dispensa in Guadalajara for any details on these marriages.
-Angelina-
-----Original Message-----
From: mytmo@netnitco.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:17 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation help for Father/Son Alviso back
toback dispensas
My Spanish is limited and I have found something curious. Mateo Alviso and
his son Calixto Alviso had back to back dispensas done and I need help with
the translation. Would someone be so kind to help me out? Mateo's dispensa
for his marriage to Casimira Vasquez is San Miguel el Alto 1832-1855 image
197 page 178 and his son Calixto to Atanacia Gallardo (aka Martin) image 198
page 179 (the next page) Here is the link:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
Thank you for any help!
Thank you, Angelina, I will try Guadalajara.
I am researching my maternal 5th Great Parents Joseph Martin de Peña and Maria Rufina Ximenes. They were married 08 Nov 1761 in Nuestra Senora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, MX.
Paul,
I searched for that couple which gave me film 639756
https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api…
I searched for film 639756 which gave me Matrimonios 1690
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatal…
I happened to have that in this spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtTSEvZUKl0ldDNURlNCWnFnQy…
which gave me an idea more or less which image number the marriage should be
found.
In the online images there is a volume Matrimonios 1690-1768
In that volume I found the record you are looking for -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
Saludos
Armando
2011/8/22
> I am researching my maternal 5th Great Parents Joseph Martin de Peña and
> Maria Rufina Ximenes. They were married 08 Nov 1761 in Nuestra Senora de los
> Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, MX. I am seeking the names of their parents.
> (It appears that records for this time period have been omitted from the LDS
> digitized Mexico Records.)
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Thank you, Armando! You are the Best.
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Armando
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 2:46 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jph. Martin de Peña = Maria Rufina Ximenes
Paul,
I searched for that couple which gave me film 639756
https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api…
I searched for film 639756 which gave me Matrimonios 1690
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatal…
I happened to have that in this spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtTSEvZUKl0ldDNURlNCWnFnQy…
which gave me an idea more or less which image number the marriage should be found.
In the online images there is a volume Matrimonios 1690-1768
In that volume I found the record you are looking for -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
Saludos
Armando
2011/8/22
> I am researching my maternal 5th Great Parents Joseph Martin de Peña
> and Maria Rufina Ximenes. They were married 08 Nov 1761 in Nuestra
> Senora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, MX. I am seeking the names of their parents.
> (It appears that records for this time period have been omitted from
> the LDS digitized Mexico Records.)
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Hola compañeros, hace días leí que alguien quería saber quienes eran los padres de Sebastián de Luna y Josefa Lozano.
Si recuerdo bien, creo que Arturo Ramos en su libro tiene mencionado al
mismo Bartolomé Luna. Desafortunadamente no indica quien es su padre.
Encontre un señor de nombre Francisco Luna que puede ser el padre pero no
estoy seguro. No es mi linea, estaba ayudanda a alguin del grupo de apellido
Brit-Morris.
2010/5/26 Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
>
> Hola compañeros, hace días leí que alguien quería saber quienes eran los
> padres de Sebastián de Luna y Josefa Lozano.
>
>
>
> Yo también necesito saber quienes son sus ancestros por lo que me puse a
> leer en el libro de Luz Montejano Hilton y en la página 131, extracto 709 se
> encuentra una dispensa en tercer grado de consanguinidad de Luis de Luna,
> hijo de Sebastián de Luna y Josefa Lozano, con María de Haro hija de
> Francisco de Haro y Cecilia de Haro Flores. En dicha dispensa se menciona
> que Sebastián de Luna y Cecilia de Haro Flores son primos hermanos por lo
> que me puse a investigar en familysearch y e hice algunas conclusiones,
> ojalá alguien nos pueda ayudar.
>
>
>
> A lo que pude concluir es que Sebastián de Luna puede ser hijo de Bartolomé
> de Luna y Lorenza Ortiz de Haro; y Cecilia de Haro Flores puede ser hija de
> Luis de Luna y Josefa de Haro y Esquivel. Yo creo que Bartolomé de Luna y
> Luis de Luna son hermanos; ¿Alguien de ustedes tiene algo sobre ellos?
>
> L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
> Tel.: 3781095311
> www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
> www.vivirmessenger.com
Mil gracias Jose luis por la informacion, ya con esto podre investigar mas de los padres de Sebastian de Luna ojala y alguien de foro sepa algo que nos pueda ayudar, pero me queda claro que Cecilia se apehida flores voy a revizar el libro de mariano Gonzalez Leal a ver si viene esta cecilia flores y no haro porque revizando hijos de Fco. de haro y cecilia flores asi aparacen e familiserch nacidos en ameca jalisco, y el apehido flores es mas de los Altos de Jalisco y es mas probable que sebastian de luna fuera de luna flores, bueno un saludo a todos los compañeros de nuestros ranchos y ojala y nos puedan ayudar
Hola a todos los compañeros acabo de encontrar una dispensa matrimonial de 1763 de Jose de luna y Gertrudis de Haro que yo creo podria ayudarnoas a saber quien eran los padres de Sebastian de luna,,, la dispensa dice lo siguiente
Juan Renteria y Delgadillo y Maria Delgadillo hermanos
Ma Delgadillo y Catalina Flores Pimos Hermanos
Diego de haro y Jose de luna primas segundas
Gertrudis de haro y Nicolas de luna primos terceros
y otro parentesco seria
Nicolas flores y Juana Flores hermanos
Catalina Flores y Diego de haro primos hermanos
Jose de luna y diego de haro primos segundos
Nicolas de luna y gertrudis haro
Bueno es algo que nos podria a decibrar la descendencia de los de luna,, ojala y con esto podamos ver quienes son los padres de sebastian de luna creo que desiende de los flores Pienso Seria Hermano de Jose de Luna Flores quien aparece en esta dispensa
I looked and looked for something about the history of Villa de San Diego de Leon, in Guanajuato, where Juan Villalpando was born, and I finally found an article about it.
Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document? The one I have is as follows...
"Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este Pueblo, de calidad Casta"
Hola
Creo que es importante situarse en el período de tiempo en que las actas son escritas.
Mientras más antiguas son, logran especificar mejor cual es la "calidad" de la persona,es decir: español, mestizo, indio y todas sus mezclas mulato, lobo, coyote, etc. Y para eso eso son interesantes las diferencias que se especifican y se pueden encontrar en Wikipedia.
Pero conforme se van acercoando los registros al final del período Virreinal, que termina en 1821, es más difícil para los párrocos diferenciar entre las diferentes mezclas raciales distintas al "español" (término que no necesariamente equivalía a blanco, sino que la persona lo parecía o tenía más prestigio) Y por eso a principios del siglo XIX se ve un poco más comúnmente usado el término "casta" para lo que no es "español" sin detallar si la persona es mulata, mestiza, lobo, coyote, etc.
Por último, la palabra tresalbo, deriva de tres=3 y albo=blanco y se usaba para los caballos que tenían tres patas blancas y en el caso de adjetivo racial lo he visto usado para mestizos o mulatos que debían ser bastante claros porque entre sus padres y abuelos había más blancos que indios o negros, pero había alguno de ellos que era indio o mulato.
Saludos,
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Yes it says calidad Casta..here is the link to my document.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/robertohdzjustagarciam…
Thank you all for your imput...
Amalia Hernandez Arias
There is no question now. That is definitely an A on both entries, the
margin and body. I have seen other documents where the O looks like an A.
My guess is that they mean mixed race, as opposed to using one of those
normally found in these documents or such as what was is found in the post
by George Fulton, or the NR folder, or Wikipedia. The baptisms and marriages
of the parents and grandparents should provide another lead as to what was
meant.
Armando
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:43 PM, wrote:
> Yes it says calidad Casta..here is the link to my document.
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/**albums/c302/1traviesa/**
> robertohdzjustagarciamarriageo**nepage.jpg
>
> Thank you all for your imput...
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Are you sure it is an A at the end of Cast? It's most likely an abbreviation
for casitzo which is the child of an español(a) and a mestizo(a) .
Armando
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, wrote:
> Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document? The
> one I have is as follows...
>
> "Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este Pueblo, de
> calidad Casta"
> It's where they ususally state their race.
>
Armando,
I have this old dictionary from Buenos Aires, 1942 second edition left to me
by my ancestors and the meaning for *Casta *is *origen o decendencia*,
and *fig.
Calidad*. So that is all it says. What does it all mean? I am curious.
Esther Jordan Lopez
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Armando wrote:
> Are you sure it is an A at the end of Cast? It's most likely an
> abbreviation
> for casitzo which is the child of an español(a) and a mestizo(a) .
>
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document? The
> > one I have is as follows...
> >
> > "Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este Pueblo,
> de
> > calidad Casta"
> > It's where they ususally state their race.
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Hello Esther,
In the context of the original post it is Calidad. People were categorized
not just by their looks and ancestry, bit also by their social standing and
living conditions. So in the case of Jose Roberto Hernandez I would think
he is being categorized as a castizo and not as a casta. I could be wrong
and it could be he is being categorized as a casta or which it seems just
means mixed race based on what is in Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta. I just haven't seen or read that anyone
has been called a casta before.
Armando
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Esther Jordan wrote:
> Armando,
> I have this old dictionary from Buenos Aires, 1942 second edition left to
> me
> by my ancestors and the meaning for *Casta *is *origen o decendencia*,
> and *fig.
> Calidad*. So that is all it says. What does it all mean? I am curious.
>
> Esther Jordan Lopez
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Armando wrote:
>
> > Are you sure it is an A at the end of Cast? It's most likely an
> > abbreviation
> > for casitzo which is the child of an español(a) and a mestizo(a) .
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document?
> The
> > > one I have is as follows...
> > >
> > > "Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este Pueblo,
> > de
> > > calidad Casta"
> > > It's where they ususally state their race.
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Thank you Armando,
I usually ignore such things but I guess I better start listing them for my
ancestors. It may actually help me to see where they came from.
Esther
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Armando wrote:
> Hello Esther,
>
> In the context of the original post it is Calidad. People were categorized
> not just by their looks and ancestry, bit also by their social standing and
> living conditions. So in the case of Jose Roberto Hernandez I would think
> he is being categorized as a castizo and not as a casta. I could be wrong
> and it could be he is being categorized as a casta or which it seems just
> means mixed race based on what is in Wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta. I just haven't seen or read that
> anyone
> has been called a casta before.
>
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Esther Jordan
> wrote:
>
> > Armando,
> > I have this old dictionary from Buenos Aires, 1942 second edition left to
> > me
> > by my ancestors and the meaning for *Casta *is *origen o decendencia*,
> > and *fig.
> > Calidad*. So that is all it says. What does it all mean? I am curious.
> >
> > Esther Jordan Lopez
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Armando wrote:
> >
> > > Are you sure it is an A at the end of Cast? It's most likely an
> > > abbreviation
> > > for casitzo which is the child of an español(a) and a mestizo(a) .
> > >
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, wrote:
> > >
> > > > Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document?
> > The
> > > > one I have is as follows...
> > > >
> > > > "Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este
> Pueblo,
> > > de
> > > > calidad Casta"
> > > > It's where they ususally state their race.
> > > >
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Oh i meant Casta not Caste
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Wikipedia has a moderately detailed article on "castas," which is essentially the mixed-race "issue" in Spanish or Portuguese colonial America.
There are apparently many terms for the various racial mixtures, although I've actually seen only few (mestizo, coyote, lobo, and of course Espanol are the most common) in the many documents I've looked at.
One list is as follows (there are others):
1. Español con India, Mestizo
2. Mestizo con Española, Castizo
3. Castiza con Español, Española
4. Español con Negra, Mulato
5. Mulato con Española, Morisca
6. Morisco con Española, Chino
7. Chino con India, Salta atrás
8. Salta atras con Mulata, Lobo
9. Lobo con China, Gíbaro (Jíbaro)
10. Gíbaro con Mulata, Albarazado
11. Albarazado con Negra, Cambujo
12. Cambujo con India, Sambiaga (Zambiaga)
13. Sambiago con Loba, Calpamulato
14. Calpamulto con Cambuja, Tente en el aire
15. Tente en el aire con Mulata, No te entiendo
16. No te entiendo con India, Torna atrás
There are a number of "Casta Paintings" which typically show 16 racial mixtures. The Wikipedia article has an example.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I've seen "tresalbo" a lot .... does anyone know what it means?
-Angelina-
Thank you all so much for the imput on the Villa de Leon vs. the Villa de Conil. I found the doucment!! however im unusre if the page is torn or its folded...help anyone with deciphering.
Amalia here is my quick transcription:
En sinco deel mes de junio de seiscientos y setenta tres años en la yglesia parroquial de San Diego de León con licentia del padre [. . .] exorcisé puse el santo oléo baptisé y puse chrisma a Juan hijo legítimo de Juan de villalpando y de María de Oláez . Fueron padrinos Juan de Oláez y Theresa de Oláez, todos españoles y vecinos desta jurisdición.
[Rúbrica] Fr. Nicolás de la Parra
Daniel Méndez Camino
Oh ok the last part de esta jurisdiction, I could not get....Again thank you for all your help...now I have to see where to go from here because the records end in the mid 1600's for Leon.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing.
I also used FTDNA. It is cheaper if you join a project such as the Mexico
DNA project maintained by Gary Felix.
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
You can join multiple projects such as the Mexico DNA project and surname
projects. What is the surname for your father in law from Teocaltiche?
Armando
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:09 AM, wrote:
> My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is
> 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old
> (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a
> DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something
> priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your
> assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Armando,
Thanks for the information ref DNA Testing.
My father-in-law is Enemorio Jauregui Delgadillo born 1938 in Mendocina, Jalisco
I found his baptism record in FamilySearch.org, however his first name is listed as "Nemesio". We have known that there was a problem with conflicting variations on his 1st name, Enemorio, Nemesio, Ememesio. His father wanted to name him after a Revolutionary Hero "Enemorio Aguirre" but the registar declined to do it and wrote in his own variation per my father-in-law.
His father was Mateo Jauregui born abt 1910 & mother Prisciliana Delgadillo born abt 1910.
His Grandfather Eusebio Jauregui born abt 1880 & Grandmother Petronila abt 1880.
Maternal Grandfather Cornelio Delgadillo born abt 1880.
They were all from Jalisco and I believe lived in the surrounding area of Mendocina or Teocaltiche. Any help finding records would be appreciated.
P.S. I also found my deceased husbands Baptism record from Teocataltiche Church Records, he was born in Molina, Jalisco, thanks to FamilySearch.org
I still have alot to learn to cut down on search time with the newly released files.
I also used Family tree DNA and then had it send to the Gary Felix site where he posts them. My Mothers brother Gutierrez came back Haplogroup N and my Brother Castanon came back R1.. I was very happy with their service and recommend both sites
Linda in B.C.
From: "judyjauregui@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:09 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Testing - which provider is best?
My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Judy,
I've used Family Tree DNA
Welcome To Family Tree DNA
90% of genealogists choose Family Tree DNA – with the largest DNA database.
As of August 19, 2011, we have a total of 343,677 records!
Good luck,
Alicia
San Jose, CA
From: "judyjauregui@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:09 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Testing - which provider is best?
My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Thanks for the information !
My great grandmother was Loreto Bais. Born in Mexico somewhere around 1868, she eventually settled down with a Tereso Sifuentes (born around 1865) somewhere in Zacatecas.
Roberto,
I did a quick check on your great grandmother's line. I found Primotivo Bais baptized in Asientos, Aguascalientes
14 Jun 1845 son of Andres Bais and Antonia de Lira. Paternal grandparents: Jose Maria Bais, Petra Candelas and
Maternal Grandparents: Gregorio Candelas, Polonia Juarez. There is a town near Aguascalientes and Asientos
called El Agostadero, it's probably the same one mentioned in the crossing.
Tereso Sifuentes and Loreta Bais baptized their daughter Francisca 10 Mar 1898 in Monterrey, Nuevo Leon.
The PG were Isidoro Sifuentes and Luz Hernandez of the city of Zacatecas. The MG were Andres Bais and Antonia
de Lira of Asientos, Ags. Isidoro Sifuentes and Luz Hernandez baptized their son Jose Felipe 30 Aug 1863 in
the City of Zacatecas, Zac. It appears your family did some moving around. I have some lines in Zacatecas and
especially Asientos.
Hope this helps somewhat for now.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Thank you Daniel,
I just did a search on familyhistory.org and found the record you were talking about, for Primitivo Bais. I didn't think to look that far back, since his sister (the only one I had info for) was born 20 some years later. Maybe my info is incorrect?
Did you find this info on familysearch.org too? If not, I'd love to learn more about any other sources of info I might be able to pursue in the future.
Thanks again.
Roberto
Roberto Martinez
Not sure if this has been posted yet...but it has helped me a great deal. Enjoy!!
http://www.agn.gob.mx/guiageneral/
Amalia Hernandez-Arias
Here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19799
If link doesn't work, go to "Files" tab; Reference material, under "mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members - UPDATED FILE"
I think there is a lot of confusion here about DNA, how it's tested, and how to interpret our results. I hope that the below will clear up some confusions...
Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results based on the the X and Y chromosomes.
Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
The maternal result isn't surprising as it's found among those that initially colonized the Americas over 10,000 years ago.
For me, the surprise is finding that my paternal DNA is P37.2, which is a predominant marker found among Balkan countries today. I've found two people with the same marker and last name (Gonzalez) as my father who are also from the same area in Zacatecas, Cuquio and La Villita near Jalpa. My father's ancestors (at least as back as ~1770) are from La Villita. I haven't yet made the genealogical connections with these two other lines, but it's great to know that there are a lot of undiscovered connections out there. Cuquio and Jalpa lie on the south-north road connecting Zacatecas and Guadalajara, and also are connected via Yahualica, Teocaltiche, Nochistlan, and Calvillo.
It's not clear how common P37.2 is among Mexicans. Does anyone else have this marker?
Arturo G
Hello Arturo,
There are I2a (P37.2) found in Spain and there is a subclade of it called
I2a1 (formerly I1b2) is found chiefly among the Sardinians and the Basques,
and is rarely found outside Iberia, Western France, the West coast of Italy
and the Mediterranean coast of the Maghreb. What are your values for DYS390
and DYS389-II?
Armando
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:27 AM, wrote:
> Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results based
> on the the X and Y chromosomes.
> Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
> Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
>
> The maternal result isn't surprising as it's found among those that
> initially colonized the Americas over 10,000 years ago.
>
> For me, the surprise is finding that my paternal DNA is P37.2, which is a
> predominant marker found among Balkan countries today. I've found two people
> with the same marker and last name (Gonzalez) as my father who are also from
> the same area in Zacatecas, Cuquio and La Villita near Jalpa. My father's
> ancestors are from La Villita. I haven't yet made the genealogical
> connections with either, but it's great to know that there are a lot of
> undiscovered connections out there. Cuquio and Jalpa lie on the south-north
> road connecting Zacatecas and Guadalajara, and also are connected via
> Yahualica, Teocaltiche, Nochistlan, and Calvillo. It's not clear how common
> P37.2 is among Mexicans. Does anyone else have this marker?
>
> Arturo G
>
Arturo,
I asked my Hispanic DNA "junkies" friends about your family Y-DNA question regarding P37.2 and haplogroup I2a. These "junkies" know DNA, especially Hispanic DNA. They responded below, FWIW. See thread from bottom to top. As I have always stated, "the Spaniards came, the Indians bore (the children)," hence in Mexico you will commonly find Y-DNA European, mtDNA Native American Indian (NAI). Historical data would suggest that 85-90% of NAI in the Americas were wiped out by warfare and infectious disease, primarily the latter. You can do the math thereafter.
Ed
....more specifically in Mexico it is found at 1.5666794% which rounds to 1.6% matching worldwide percentage.
2011/8/17 Robert Tarín
Ed and Al,
I find this group at about 1.6% of Hispanics worldwide....at least in my database of 10,000+ records.......rare but not unheard of.
RD
2011/8/17 Al Aburto
Likely he is I2a1 (P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29 where it says I2a1 is found in 40% of Sardinians and at lower frequencies in among populations living in the Pyrenees and Iberia ...
He might want to test L158 to see if indeed he is L158+ ...
Al
> On 8/17/2011 7:13 PM, Edward Serros wrote:
RD and Al,
One of my Nuestros Ranchos genealogy group did DNA testing and had this question. Any comments? You guys are the DNA "experts" by this time.
Ed
Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results based on the the X and Y chromosomes.
Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
My understanding is Robert Tarin is the one that maintains the Iberian Roots
website http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+ are the SNPs that can be tested with a
deepclade test and the plus sign mean a positive test. The letter stands for
the lab that discovered the SNP.
Armando
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
> Arturo,
>
> I asked my Hispanic DNA "junkies" friends about your family Y-DNA question
> regarding P37.2 and haplogroup I2a. These "junkies" know DNA, especially
> Hispanic DNA. They responded below, FWIW. See thread from bottom to top.
> As I have always stated, "the Spaniards came, the Indians bore (the
> children)," hence in Mexico you will commonly find Y-DNA European, mtDNA
> Native American Indian (NAI). Historical data would suggest that 85-90% of
> NAI in the Americas were wiped out by warfare and infectious disease,
> primarily the latter. You can do the math thereafter.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ....more specifically in Mexico it is found at 1.5666794% which rounds to
> 1.6% matching worldwide percentage.
>
> 2011/8/17 Robert Tarín Ed and Al,
>
> I find this group at about 1.6% of Hispanics worldwide....at least in my
> database of 10,000+ records.......rare but not unheard of.
>
> RD
>
>
>
> 2011/8/17 Al Aburto Likely he is I2a1 (P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+).
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29where it says I2a1 is found in 40% of Sardinians and at lower frequencies in
> among populations living in the Pyrenees and Iberia ...
>
> He might want to test L158 to see if indeed he is L158+ ...
> Al
>
>
> > On 8/17/2011 7:13 PM, Edward Serros wrote:
> RD and Al,
>
>
>
>
> One of my Nuestros Ranchos genealogy group did DNA testing and had this
> question. Any comments? You guys are the DNA "experts" by this time.
>
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results based
> on the the X and Y chromosomes.
>
>
>
>
> Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
>
> Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
>
>
My recent FamilyTree DNA result shows I'm Haplogroup J2a4h2, still waiting for the deepclade results
Raymond Medrano
--- On Thu, 8/18/11, Armando wrote:
From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] my DNA results
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, ed@serros.net
Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 5:38 AM
My understanding is Robert Tarin is the one that maintains the Iberian Roots
website http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+ are the SNPs that can be tested with a
deepclade test and the plus sign mean a positive test. The letter stands for
the lab that discovered the SNP.
Armando
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
> Arturo,
>
> I asked my Hispanic DNA "junkies" friends about your family Y-DNA question
> regarding P37.2 and haplogroup I2a. These "junkies" know DNA, especially
> Hispanic DNA. They responded below, FWIW. See thread from bottom to top.
> As I have always stated, "the Spaniards came, the Indians bore (the
> children)," hence in Mexico you will commonly find Y-DNA European, mtDNA
> Native American Indian (NAI). Historical data would suggest that 85-90% of
> NAI in the Americas were wiped out by warfare and infectious disease,
> primarily the latter. You can do the math thereafter.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ....more specifically in Mexico it is found at 1.5666794% which rounds to
> 1.6% matching worldwide percentage.
>
> 2011/8/17 Robert Tarín Ed and Al,
>
> I find this group at about 1.6% of Hispanics worldwide....at least in my
> database of 10,000+ records.......rare but not unheard of.
>
> RD
>
>
>
> 2011/8/17 Al Aburto Likely he is I2a1 (P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+).
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29where it says I2a1 is found in 40% of Sardinians and at lower frequencies in
> among populations living in the Pyrenees and Iberia ...
>
> He might want to test L158 to see if indeed he is L158+ ...
> Al
>
>
> > On 8/17/2011 7:13 PM, Edward Serros wrote:
> RD and Al,
>
>
>
>
> One of my Nuestros Ranchos genealogy group did DNA testing and had this
> question. Any comments? You guys are the DNA "experts" by this time.
>
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results based
> on the the X and Y chromosomes.
>
>
>
>
> Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
>
> Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
>
>
Another interesting one. There are many subclades out there that are
underrepresented since it takes so many people for them to find that 1%.
Your shorthand is M158 and in the 2011 ISOGG tree your HG is J2a3h1
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html
There is a blog dedicated to your subclade
http://j2a4h2.blogspot.com/2011/05/all-males-descended-from-john-hullin…
Are you or your descendants from Los Altos?
Armando
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Raymond Medrano wrote:
> My recent FamilyTree DNA result shows I'm Haplogroup J2a4h2, still waiting
> for the deepclade results
>
> Raymond Medrano
>
> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] my DNA results
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, ed@serros.net
> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 5:38 AM
>
>
> My understanding is Robert Tarin is the one that maintains the Iberian
> Roots
> website http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
>
> P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+ are the SNPs that can be tested with a
> deepclade test and the plus sign mean a positive test. The letter stands
> for
> the lab that discovered the SNP.
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
>
> > Arturo,
> >
> > I asked my Hispanic DNA "junkies" friends about your family Y-DNA
> question
> > regarding P37.2 and haplogroup I2a. These "junkies" know DNA, especially
> > Hispanic DNA. They responded below, FWIW. See thread from bottom to top.
> > As I have always stated, "the Spaniards came, the Indians bore (the
> > children)," hence in Mexico you will commonly find Y-DNA European, mtDNA
> > Native American Indian (NAI). Historical data would suggest that 85-90%
> of
> > NAI in the Americas were wiped out by warfare and infectious disease,
> > primarily the latter. You can do the math thereafter.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ....more specifically in Mexico it is found at 1.5666794% which rounds to
> > 1.6% matching worldwide percentage.
> >
> > 2011/8/17 Robert Tarín Ed and Al,
> >
> > I find this group at about 1.6% of Hispanics worldwide....at least in my
> > database of 10,000+ records.......rare but not unheard of.
> >
> > RD
> >
> >
> >
> > 2011/8/17 Al Aburto Likely he is I2a1 (P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+).
> > See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29<
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29>where it says I2a1
> is found in 40% of Sardinians and at lower frequencies in
> > among populations living in the Pyrenees and Iberia ...
> >
> > He might want to test L158 to see if indeed he is L158+ ...
> > Al
> >
> >
> > > On 8/17/2011 7:13 PM, Edward Serros wrote:
> > RD and Al,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One of my Nuestros Ranchos genealogy group did DNA testing and had this
> > question. Any comments? You guys are the DNA "experts" by this time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results
> based
> > on the the X and Y chromosomes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
> >
> > Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
I made a big mistake. Your shorthand is L25 and your subclade under the
ISOGG 2011 is J2a3h2 http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html
I apologize for any confusion I caused on the previous post.
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Armando wrote:
> Another interesting one. There are many subclades out there that are
> underrepresented since it takes so many people for them to find that 1%.
> Your shorthand is M158 and in the 2011 ISOGG tree your HG is J2a3h1
> http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html
>
> There is a blog dedicated to your subclade
> http://j2a4h2.blogspot.com/2011/05/all-males-descended-from-john-hullin…
>
> Are you or your descendants from Los Altos?
>
> Armando
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Raymond Medrano <
> raymond-rmm@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> My recent FamilyTree DNA result shows I'm Haplogroup J2a4h2, still waiting
>> for the deepclade results
>>
>> Raymond Medrano
>>
>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Armando wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Armando
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] my DNA results
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, ed@serros.net
>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 5:38 AM
>>
>>
>> My understanding is Robert Tarin is the one that maintains the Iberian
>> Roots
>> website http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
>>
>> P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+ are the SNPs that can be tested with a
>> deepclade test and the plus sign mean a positive test. The letter stands
>> for
>> the lab that discovered the SNP.
>>
>> Armando
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
>>
>> > Arturo,
>> >
>> > I asked my Hispanic DNA "junkies" friends about your family Y-DNA
>> question
>> > regarding P37.2 and haplogroup I2a. These "junkies" know DNA,
>> especially
>> > Hispanic DNA. They responded below, FWIW. See thread from bottom to
>> top.
>> > As I have always stated, "the Spaniards came, the Indians bore (the
>> > children)," hence in Mexico you will commonly find Y-DNA European, mtDNA
>> > Native American Indian (NAI). Historical data would suggest that 85-90%
>> of
>> > NAI in the Americas were wiped out by warfare and infectious disease,
>> > primarily the latter. You can do the math thereafter.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ....more specifically in Mexico it is found at 1.5666794% which rounds
>> to
>> > 1.6% matching worldwide percentage.
>> >
>> > 2011/8/17 Robert Tarín Ed and Al,
>> >
>> > I find this group at about 1.6% of Hispanics worldwide....at least in my
>> > database of 10,000+ records.......rare but not unheard of.
>> >
>> > RD
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2011/8/17 Al Aburto Likely he is I2a1 (P37.2+, L158+, L159.1+, M26+).
>> > See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29>where it says I2a1
>> is found in 40% of Sardinians and at lower frequencies in
>> > among populations living in the Pyrenees and Iberia ...
>> >
>> > He might want to test L158 to see if indeed he is L158+ ...
>> > Al
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 8/17/2011 7:13 PM, Edward Serros wrote:
>> > RD and Al,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > One of my Nuestros Ranchos genealogy group did DNA testing and had this
>> > question. Any comments? You guys are the DNA "experts" by this time.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Claudia, In the spirit of your post I wanted to share my DNA results
>> based
>> > on the the X and Y chromosomes.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Paternal: Haplogroup I2a (P37.2)
>> >
>> > Maternal (mtDNA): Haplogroup B
>> >
>> >
>> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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>> >
>> > To post, send email to:
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>> >
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>> >
Claudia,
You stated that the substitution rate of the X-chromosome is fast, and the reason why X-chromosomes are not used to determine genealogies. I respectfully disagree. X-Chromosomes in mammals, including humans, display substitution rates slower than autosomes (non-sex chromosomes). Several hypotheses have been advanced to explain this slower rate, but purifying selection against deleterious mutations is perhaps the most plausible explanation. Thus a slow mutation rate is perhaps one reason why X-chromosomes are not used genealogical studies. I can think of other reasons, including the high potential of this metacentric chromosome for crossing-over during meiosis. This type of genetic recombination would produce genealogies that cannot be easily solved, as the new chromatid now includes mom's and dad's contribution.
Sincerely
Jaime Alvarado
Hi Armando, I think what I said is that "it is not very useful for DEEP ancestry..."
Although males pass the X chromosome largely unchanged to their daughters, females will usually pass a mixed X chromosome to their child a mixture of the X chromosome they received from their father and the X chromosome they received from their mother. I'm not sure if it's currently possible to determine, by DNA analysis, which of my two X chromosomes came from my mother and which from my father. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
However, a child is unlikely to receive an X chromosome from their mother that is 50% from their maternal grandfather and 50% from their maternal grandmother. It will most likely be some other more random amount between 0% and 100%. Thus, an ancestor is likely to be either under- or over-represented in an actual X chromosome. Thus, not being able to reveal too much for our genealogical purposes. Maybe in the future as the science progresses...
Hello Claudia,
I haven't said anything that stated or inferred anything different. My
statement about mtDNA being passed down from mother to son may have been
interpreted incorrectly, I was only pointing out that men can test for
mtDNA. If there has been a misunderstanding about some of my posts please
let me know.
Now that you bring up Autosomal DNA. The following is directly from
FamilyTreeDNA -
** Due to the nature of autosomal DNA, the test does not specify from which
branch of your family tree your matches or the percentages of your
geographic heritage derive.
Therefore, you cannot get one's complete ethnic origin breakdown from an
AUTOSOMAL DNA analysis. A complete ethnic origin breakdown would actually be
impossible for almost everybody and this shouldn't be expected to be
acheived at all. No one has inferred that this can be done. I am curious as
to what led you to believe someone had inferred such is possible or is even
being attempted.
Armando
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote:
> I think there is a lot of confusion here about DNA, how it's tested, and
> how to interpret our results. I hope that the below will clear up some
> confusions...
>
> There are four (4) types of DNA in humans that are used for molecular
> genealogy:
>
> 1) Autosomal DNA - inherited from both MOTHER & FATHER (we inherit 50% from
> mom/50% from dad)
>
> 2) X-chromosome DNA - determines gender; whether we are female (XX) or male
> (XY), females pass on their X chromosome to ALL children, fathers pass on
> their X chromosome to their DAUGHTERS only and their Y chromosomes to their
> SONS only. X-chromosome DNA changes rapidly from generation-to-generation,
> and so it is not very useful for deep ancestry research
>
> 3) Y-chromosome DNA - only men have this and because men only have 1
> Y-chromosome, it passes unchanged from FATHER-to-SON over many generations
> going back deep into one's ancestry on DIRECT male line
>
> 4) Mitochondrial DNA - both men and women have this, but only a MOTHER can
> pass it on to her SONS and DAUGHTERS; it passes from
> generation-to-generation unchanged for thousands of years (deep-deep
> ancestry on DIRECT female line)
>
> A man can be haplotype R1b (European), but still be 30% native-American,
> African, Asian, whatever. In this case, we only tested his Y-chromosome and
> results prove that his direct PATERNAL line has European origins. Now, if
> he tests his Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), he can also have a European result,
> but at the same time be 30% Native-American, African, Asian...whatever. We
> only tested his MATERNAL line
>
> In order to get one's complete ethnic origin breakdown, one needs to get an
> AUTOSOMAL DNA analysis. This test takes a different strand of human DNA
> (NOT related to yDNA or mtDNA), that is passed on randomly from BOTH mother
> and father to each child. We get 50% from mother and 50% from father. Our
> mother got 50% from her mother and 50% from her father...and our father got
> 50% from his father & 50% from his mother...etc, etc...all the way up our
> family tree. It is a complete genetic record.
>
> I think that as more and more NR members get tested, we will learn that we
> who descend from the founding families of Jalisco, Zacatecas &
> Aguascalientes are not 100% pure Spanish/Portuguese/Italian/**French . We
> are all a mixture of the three major ethnic groups who populated the region
> and who comprise our ancestry: European, Native American and African. This
> is being proven by DNA test results every day.
>
>
Definitely not your posts...why so touchy? :)
If you read the entire FAQ for FamilytreeDNA posted re: Autosomal DNA (Family-Finder), you will derive that:
1) when they say they cannot "specify from which branch of your family tree your matches or the percentages of your geographic heritage," what they mean is that...say for example you are 10% African...the test cannot tell you if you got that from your mother or your father, or both. It can only confirm that 10% of your genetic code matches genes found in the X African population.
2) the Autosomal DNA test results yield only what what your ancestors passed on to you (obviously), and through the process of "recombination" you and your siblings can inherit different percentages, as it is all a random inheritance.
3) as well, any small-small percentage (say you had one Chinese ancestor 7 generations ago), will most probably not show in your results. There is some mathematical formula for how they decide what makes it into your results report--check the FAQ
All-in-all, we are dealing with a very nascent, but quickly-developing, science. I encourage everyone to have their DNA tested and stored for future tests as scientists develop better ways of analyzing our data.
It's great to have people like you at NR who can speak about a subject objectively. Thanks for reaching out.
-Claudia
Civil records for these two states have just been posted on Family Search.
George
Es realmente fantastico. Estube revisando un poco de Jalisco y va a ser una excelente fuente de mi busqueda.
Aqui el link:
Mexico, Jalisco, Civil Registration, 1832-2000
Miguel Beltran
New records posted today:
Queretaro, Veracruz, and Oaxaca.
They just uploaded Civil Registration records for Jalisco and SLP at Familysearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=19…
Don't forget to thank them in the feedback section so they may consider posting more Mexican records sooner than later!
Victoriano Navarro
Am
On Aug 12, 2011, at 12:56 PM, gpf13@aol.com wrote:
> New records posted today:
>
> Queretaro, Veracruz, and Oaxaca.
Many thanks to the responses from George, Patty, & Alicia.
Unfortunately your advice doesn't work because my grandmother's
married name (I think) was Blanche, but maybe Blanco. In
Nancy
Not infrequently, births in California were recorded without a given name, only last names.
My mother-in-law, born in 1925, in the Imperial Valley, CA actually added her name to her birth certificate when she was an adult.
My father-in-law, born in 1924 or 1925, picked a 1925 birth certificate (the other was for his brother who died as an infant), both of these had only surnames for the child. He took 1925 because it kept him out of the WW II draft for another year.
There are also gaps in the records as not every birth was recorded, even when required by law.
A similar situation may apply to your father. You might have better luck with the County Clerk, rather than Sacramento for the birth certificate.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Dear Nancy:
Have you tried researching the Sanchez Guerrero family? She might have been a godparent to some of the sibling's children, then you could place her. She could also have been a witness in one of the marriage investigations. Sometimes those auxiliary records can really help.
Maureen Bejar
Nancy Blanche Perez
Hi Maureen,
Yes, I am researching the Sanchez Guerrero family and am
sure that something will shed the light, hopefully soon.
Although I knew my grandmother as Alma Blanche, I do believe
now that she was a Guerrero. If you CLICK on the photos available
in "latest images" you will read some bio comments which go back
2 generations, but still don't give me a direct line to my gm. Un-
fortunately the records I need to research aren't indexed but your
suggestions about searching for godparent or witness possibility
are good ones. I know that Jesus Sanchez Guerrero was baptized in Jesus,
Guadalajara, (1874) and his son, Francisco Sanchez Flores (1910) was baptized
in Tlajomulco. I need to find time to look there. Thanks so much for your help.
Family Search