Nuestros Ranchos Site

Alguien en el grupo sabe si ya salió la última publicación del libro del Sr. Mariano Gonzalez Leal Vol. III ? O si hay alguna fecha para tal venta?
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Does anyone in the group know if there is a publication of the Mariano´s Leal book Vol. III or if there is a date for the sale?

Gracias por cualquier informacion/ Thanks for any info.

Alessandro Vitela

Can the terms "viuda" (widow) and "soltera" (spinster, or single woman) be used interchanged? That is, could "soltera" describe a women who is actually a widow?

I have a 1739 death record from Aguascalientes for Josepha Rodrigues where "soltera" is used. Her parents are named, but there is no other information. I also have what may be her husband's (Salvador Ponse) death record from 1738, where it states that he is married to Josepha Rodrigues.

George Fulton

Perdoneme Rodolfo pero la etimologia de Don , NO es de las siglas De Origen Noble. De acuerdo al Diccionario de la Real Academia Española, viene de el Latin dominus (proprietario o señor). De acuerdo con la Enciclopedia Britanica, en la epoca romana se utilizaba dominus para el dueño de propriedad y esclavos. Fue de echo el emperador Diocleciano (284 to 305 DC) el primero en utilizarlo y sus sucesores fueron conocidos como dominate ( dominatus ).

Ahora, estoy de acuerdo que su uso original era reservado para el trato de aquellas personas de noble origen, independientemente del titulo nobilario que ostentaban. Tambien estoy de acuerdo que el uso actual en ciertos contextos aun es reservado para referir a personas de abolengo, independientemente de su abuso. De echo en Argentina se usa como equivalente de fulano.

Respetuosamente

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:16:11 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Don y Doña

Perdón pero estan en un error.

Don y Doña son el trato que reciben aún hoy en día las personas de abolengo sin importar la edad, lo mismo un niño recién nacido que una anciana de 100 años.

El trato de Don y Doña sólo se les dá a personas que pertenecen a la realeza, la alta, media y ba´ja nobleza y a sus descendientes hasta en la tercera generación, a personas que pertenecen a órdenes militares o on cargos en el gobierno real y que el Rey les otorga un escudo de armas.

Esto pasó en el virreinato y aún en el siglo XIX en México y casi toda Latinoamérica.

Los indios nobles también recibian el trato de Don y tenian pribilegios de español como el uso de caballos, casa a la española, uso de armas, caminar por las banquetas, uso de carruajes, etc.

El uso de don y doña se extendió como una manera de respeto o trato especial, de tal modo que hoy en día en México cualquier pelado es Don o Doñita.

Don es la abreviación de 3 palabras. Significa: De Origen Noble. DON.

Para poder usar ese título era necesario ser de origen noble y contar con blasónes o escudo de armas.

Recordemos que los títulos te los dan los demás. Es totalmente incorrecto referirse a uno mismo cono "soy el señor ...." o "atentamente: Don..... ", o "soy el Licenciado fulano de tal" .... eso va contra cualquier protocolo.

En México algunas instituciones sobre todo las religiosas se referían a Don o Doña ya sólo a las personas con poder económico sin importar la genealogía, Don y Doña son títulos para distinguir a la gente entre nobles y plabeyos, en las Repúblicas el uso de los títulos esta prohibido, se cambió por el de Ciudadano.

Espero les haya servido la información.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

Hello Alicia,
Don't know if you remember me, but I met you when I hosted the first So. Cal meeting of Rancho members in my home.  I haven't been able to devote much time to my genealogy searches lately but I try to keep up with the group by reading the postings.  I found your question a very valid one.  I first started by searching my maternal ancestry in 1970.  From the time II was very small my maternal grandmother would often speak of her early days in Mexico.  As a young adult I would often stop by her house after work and she would tell me stories of days passed.  It was then that my interest in my ancestry began.  As the years passed and I began asking questions of my aunts I came across some resistance from a few of the elder aunts.  I thought this very odd since my grandmother had been very candid with me when she spoke of her life.  In fact eight days before her death a video was made of my grandmother as she told her story.  At the age of 92 she
was very accurate in her facts and very forthcoming of many details of her life.  As years have passed many of my "successes" can be directly attributed to information passed on by her in the video.  As I've continued my research I have found that it was quite common for the men in the family to have had more than one family with two or more "wives."  Such was the case with my grandparents (both paternal & maternal), and perhaps.  There were families left in Mexico, and new families established in the United States.  These "skeletons" no doubt were the reason for the reluctance of some family members to share memories of the past.  It's too bad  because regardless of origin, there is so much richness in our family lines.  It wasn't until about 10 years ago that I actively started search my paternal side and, unfortunately, the relatives still living have very sketchy memories of their parents and grandparents.  Some, on this side too are
reluctant to share information.    But, I keep searching.  We never know what will be uncovered.  Good luck in your searches to all Rancho members.

Saludos
Olivia Jaurequi-Reyes
Rowland Heights, CA

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:35 PM

Richard,

I didn't intend to pry in to sensitive material for anyone......just wondered if this was problematic for anyone else. I know in my family there is a lot of lore that has some truth to it and I've been asked by some family relations "why are you doing this"? Some believe that I'm trying to uncover some dirt and that has never been my intention.

As far as I know there are a couple of other distant family members doing Genealogy but I have yet to meet them in person. Most of the family is intrigued by the findings and how it is that we can trace our ancestry. It has been a pleasure to share what I have with different branches of the family. To see the wonderment in their eyes when they see the actual documents that trace back several generations and to hear them say, no wonder my father or mother used to say, "THIS IS YOUR TIO OR TIA or YOUR COUSIN" but I never knew how they were related to me.

I did find one skeleton but rather than flinch, they were intrigued and wanted to know more about my Ggrandfather's out of wedlock child and where might they find this individual and his descendants.

Thanks Ricci,

Saludos,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif

_

Can somebody read the attached marriage recording and figure out what the middle name is?

Does anyone have information on the Villalpando family of Aguascalientes?

From the Aguascalientes chuich records there is:

(1) Thomas Villalpando and Maria Vargas
married 7 Oct 1677, in Aguascalientes; they had at least these children
(i) Antonio, chr. 7 Oct 1682, Aguascalientes
(ii) Maria, chr. 5 Dec 1685
(iii) Thomas, chr. 29 Mar 1687

(2) Thomas Villalpando and Maria de Jaen (y Ruis de Esparza?)
married 12 Mar 1690, Aguascalientesl; they had at least 3 children
(i) Juan Manuel, chr. 27 Dec 1690
(ii) MAria Theresia, chr 10 May 1693
(iii) Maria Antonia, chr 4 Apr 1695

(3) Thomas Villalpando and Maria Sotelo
marriage date not found; they had several children, these two christened in Aguascalientes
(i) Juan Antonio, chr. 23 Aug 1701
(ii) Maria de la Salud, chr. 22 Mar 1704
other children from marriages records were
(iii) Felipa, m. Andres Macias
(iv) Francisco, m. Pedtra de la Candelaria Luevana Contreras
(v) Elena Lorensa, m. Salbador de Santiago de Escobar.

The Thomas who married Maria de Jaen, is not Thomas, chr. 29 Mar 1687. Thomas who married Maria Sotelo could be, but he would have married rather young. Evidence is lacking.

There are also several other Villalpando's in Aguascalientes ion the time period.

Thank you!

George

Jaime A. Michel pregunto:

Tendras informacion de Elena Cueto Diaz nacio en Sayula, Jalisco en 1888 estuvo casada con Manuel C. Michel Zamora ;se que era hija de Francisco Cueto Vale y Maria Diaz Gonzalez, me gustaría saber si tienes informacion sobre hermanos, ancestros de ella,

Pongo la pregunta aqui para que otros tengan la oportunidad de ayudar.

Lo que encontre es lo siguiente,

Name: Maria Merced Coheto
Gender: Female
Christening date: 02 Nov 1881
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Coheto
Mother name: Serapia Diaz
Batch number: I06283-2
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224957

Name: Vicente Coheto
Gender: Male
Christening date: 25 Dec 1883
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Coheto
Mother name: Serapia Diaz
Batch number: I06283-3
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224957

Name: Elena Coheto
Gender: Female
Christening date: 08 Oct 1885
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Coheto
Mother name: Serapia Dias
Batch number: I06364-8
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224958

Name: Francisco Coheto
Gender: Male
Christening date: 30 Jul 1887
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Coheto
Mother name: Serapia Diaz
Batch number: I06364-9
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224958

Name: Elena Coeto
Gender: Female
Christening date: 03 Aug 1888
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Coeto
Mother name: Serapia Diaz
Batch number: I06365-0
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224958

Name: Ygnacio Cueto
Gender: Male
Christening date: 24 Feb 1895
Christening place: Santuario de Guadalupe, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Francisco Cueto
Mother name: Empia... Dias
Batch number: I02522-8
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 224960

Observaciones y sugerencias,

• Muchas veces los escribanos apuntaban los nombres, apellidos como los escuchaban. No siempre vas a encontrar el apellido escrito de la misma manera.
• Los padres probablemente se casaron unos años antes del nacimiento del primer hijo/hija 1881 y atrás. Busca en el ‘81 también.
• La primera Elena Coheto nacida en 1885 probablemente murió antes del nacimiento de su hermana Elena en 1888
• Probablemente hay más hijos de este matrimonio ya que hay un espacio de aprox. 7 años entre Elena y Ygnacio
• Revisa los documentos ya que muchas veces tienen mayor información. Los números de las filminas de donde se obtuvo la información se encuentran después de las palabras, “Film number:”
• Esta información fue obtenida de Pilot.FamilySearch.org
• No se te olvide buscar en el Registro Civil, ya que también puedes encontrar información adicional ahí.
• Si te topas con alguna pared busca ayuda :•)

Depending on the time frame, the father might not have been around to say
the child was his when it was born. It doesn't mean he wasn't the father.
He was working or fighting or whatever when the child was baptised. If
the father wasnt present the priest wouldnt put his name down. Or perhaps
the parents werent able to marry due to not having a priest around during
the revolution. I guess ......sometimes there is more information to
find.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marge Vallazza"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:12:32 -0600

Oh, yes! One of my tias was highly insulted when I revealed that
my grandfather was a child whose father was not on his birth
record. She very emphatically told her sisters that it was NOT
true.

Then, I just recently learned that this same grandfather was not
the eldest in his family as I'd always been told. I found
information (and on the new Family History pilot site, hurray!)
that showed his brother was his elder by 3 years. THAT record was
another "no father listed." :( Pobre visabuela mia. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed
reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning
to do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do
research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a
great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you
do family research and with the findings??
Meaning dark skeleton's in the family closet that may or may not
have been intentional findings.

Thanks again to everyone, great reading.
Alicia

Dear Jonathan and Alicia,
What great questions the two of you ask. There are several
reasons that genealogy sparked my interest.
First and foremost, my maternal grandfather and father knew so much
about their families--I thought that it would be a crime to ignore it.
I recall at a very young age listening to conversations of my
elders--some seemed like tall tales, others were hushed or spoken in
Spanish slang that I couldn't always understand. Then folks from the
old country would show up on my parent's doorsteps, and my parents would
try to describe their relationship to us. My dad would later call them
"paracaidistas" meaning that they literally fell out of the sky and onto
our doorstep like parachute jumpers. They were often looking for work
in the U.S. Often, if they were not close relatives, my father would
help them find work.
My maternal grandparents would also visit every 3-5 years. My
grandfather was very interested in his family tree, as well as my
grandmother's. In addition to being a dairy farmer, my grandfather was
also a surveyor which meant a lot of travelling from ranch to ranch
measuring folk's lands, and hand drawing maps for them. I still
remember his color pencils, rulers, etc.,. According to my mother, he
would come back from his travels, and relay genealogy information
regarding his wife's relatives. My mother would listen to his stories,
and would later help me in my research by telling me which ranchos they
had relatives on. Before my grandfather died, he did get my cousin to
write what he knew down (several generations). This has helped me a lot
in my research. I also recall visiting Mexico with my parents and
meeting many people, visiting places which would spark more stories.
Learning that my father's mother who died when he was 2 years
old was born in the same house as my mother, brought about more
questions. What was this woman like, and who had lived in this ranch
house. How did my grandfather acquire this, and what was his
relationship to my father's maternal line. Also, how are all these
Gutierrez tied to each other, and how are all these Padillas tied to
each other. Why does my family and folks from our towns look different,
and sometimes behave differently from the rest of Mexico? I am slowly
uncovering answers to all of these questions. I also have found that my
father and his family has some curious food practices which I thought
was the norm for Mexicans until I compared stories with other Mexicans
and then became friends with a Jewish woman. I have nothing concrete
here though, so many of my questions continue...
As a child, my father would also listen to family stories, and
later convey these and his family tree to me---mostly names back to
people born in the late 1700s. I recall that when my father was out of
reach, my mother would tell me that my Dad's stories were embellished,
and to not believe everything he said. I decided long ago that it was
my job to separate fact from fiction. It has been like a puzzle for me.
My father's stories did have some truth after all, and I was able to
prove some family lines that he had hoped I wouldn't. It's interesting
to see how we all fall into place in this vast family tree. I have also
placed some of these "paracaidistas" into the family tree. Even now
when I visit my father, he will have visitors who talk about who died,
who suffered this or that, stories from the past. I still listen
intently just in case they fit into my tree. I never come away with
nothing.
Now that my father is in his late 70's, and my mother has
dementia, he is sharing some skeletons which I had hoped didn't exist.
I have also run across some in my research. I always welcome the truth,
but sometimes it can be painful and uncomfortable. He has told me that
I need to know the truth although some of his family members would be
mad at him for sharing it all. I most likely will not write about some
of these things because they would only hurt people, and not help. The
majority of my family wants me to hurry up and share what I have. I am
fortunate in that they do value my research, but have been told by some
to leave the fairly new skeletons out. I will respect their wishes,
especially those which would only hurt living people, and serve no real
purpose.
Thanks again for asking such important questions. This will help us all
to write our family histories or at least get started.
Irma Gomez Gtz.
Northern California

Mi agradecimiento sincero por darme la oportunidad de ser parte de su grupo. Ya tengo varios años ayudando a mi esposo en la búsqueda de sus raices en Silesia que era Alemania cuando él nació y desde 1945 pasó a ser parte de Polonia. De ahí nació en mí el deseo de hacer lo mismo con mi familia en México, pero hasta ahora no me había sido posible encontrar personas o grupos dedicados seriamente a la genealogía. Estoy segura de que podremos ayudarnos mutuamente.

Mi presentación al grupo:
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/b-boehm.htm

En busca de mis antepasados:
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Empezaré buscando informacion sobre los antepasados de las familias de Narciso NAVARRO (+1894) y de Antonia ACEVES (+ 1910 aprox.) los dos nacidos en Tepatitlán, Jalisco.

Saludos,
Bertha Medina de Boehm

Hello,
 
I am doing genealogical research--my family comes primarily from the Lagos de Moreno area with many of them being 'indios' from the Pueblo de Moya which is now a neighborhood in present-day Lagos de Moreno. One branch of the family then moved to Aguascalientes from the Lagos area. I've been in touch with an historian in Lagos who believes many of the indios from Pueblo de Moya were Tlaxcala indians from the South who helped in the conquest and I have a little bit of info. regarding the founding of Pueblo de Moya--many who carry my family names but I have not yet made the connection. I will be happy to share any informaton that I have and hope to find someone researching lines similar to mine. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17463

 
Thank you
 
Jennifer Lertwachara

I have an ancestor named maria magdalena salas lozano christened on 2/jul/1787 with the parents named Josse de Santiago salas (Macias?) and francisca Lozano.
Magdalena was married to Juan antonio Casillas in Tepa on 20/may 1787

Does anybody have info on magdalenas grandparents Jose de santiago Salas was supposed to be from aguasclintes I think

My wife descends from Jose Caytano Nunez and Maria Josefa Macias from santa maria lagos lagos de moreno. Any info on them? they aare the parents of jose bacilio nunes christened 22/jun/1784

Hola Irma:

Saludos desde Guadalajara, Jalisco.

Yo tambien soy genealogista aficionado desde hace ya varios años y mis
ancestros por linea paterna son de la region de Los Altos de Jalisco, mi
nombre
es Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez, tengo 44 años, soy Ingeniero Quimico,
naci y vivo en la ciudad de Guadalajara, Jalisco, mi padre Tomas Villegas
Gutierrez
es de Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco.

Por cierto mis ancestros tambien llevan el apellido Ramirez y el
Gomez, este
ultimo de los Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza de los Altos. En resumen de estos
apellidos es asi: 1.- Yo: Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez, 2.- Mis Padres:
Tomas
Villegas Gutierrez y Maria Elena Gomez Castellanos, 3.- Mis Abuelos
Paternos:
Francisco Villegas Navarro y Mucia Gutierrez Ramirez, 4.- Mis Bisabuelos
Paternos:
Gil Gutierrez Flores y Josefa Ramirez Perez, 5.- Mis Tatarabuelos padres de
Josefa:
Nicolas Ramirez Gomez y Serapia Perez Gomez, 6.- 4tos.Abuelos padres de
Nicolas: Miguel Ramirez Aceves y Ma. de Santiago Gomez Perez, 7.- 5tos.
Abuelos
padres de Miguel: juan Jose Ramirez Gutierrez y Ma. Jesus Aceves Padilla,
8.- 6tos.
Abuelos padres de Juan Jose: Agustin Ramirez de Luna y Ma. Dolores Gutierrez
Muñoz, 9.- 7mos. Abuelos padres de Agustin: Jose Geronimo Ramirez y Juana
Manuela de Luna y Tapia, casados el 15 de Mayo de 1773 en Sta. Maria de los
Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jal., aqui estoy hasta ahora me falta revisar este
matrimonio para seguir mas atras.

---------------------------------------------------

A Continuacion te pongo lo que yo tengo, que es informacion del
Genealogista el Dr. Jose Carlos Barba Gómez y este a su vez se baso en
investigaciones del Genealogista Dr. Rito Romo Franco (Que en Paz Descanse):

Tengo como hijos de Juan Jose y Ma. de Jesus a:

1.- Vicente, Nacido Aprox. en 1819 en La Estancia de
los Casillas, Valle de Guadalupe, Jal., casado con
Juana Maria Pérez Gómez, nacida en Mayo de 1822
tambien en La Estancia de los Casillas, Valle de
Glpe., Jal, casados el 02-May-1841 en Jalostotitlan,
Jal., tengo registrados solamente a 2 hijos:
1.1.- José Octaviano Ramírez Pérez, Nacido en Mzo de
1848 en Jalos.
1.2.- Ma. Isabel Ramirez Perez, casada con Diego
Cornejo Aceves el 09-Feb-1860 en Jalos.
2.- Miguel, mi Ancestro Directo, casado con Ma. de
Santiago Gómez Pérez, Hija de Ignacio Gómez e
Ignacia Pérez, Nacida Aprox. en 1823, casados
el 25-Jul-1840 en Jalos, solo tengo registrados 2 hijos:
2.2.- Leonardo Ramirez Gomez, nacido Aprox. en 1841
casado con Ma-Loreto Franco Valladares, nacida
Aprox. en 1836 en La Estancia de los Casillas,
Valle de Glpe., Jal., casados el 12-May-1870 en
Tepatitlan,tengo registrados a 3 hijos solamente:
2.2.1.- José Urbano Ramirez Franco, nacido en Junio
de 1871 en Guadalajara, Jal.
2.2.2.- Monica Ramirez Franco nacida Aprox. en 1878,
casada con Jose Santos Padilla Franco, hijo de
Eugenio Padilla y Dionicia Franco, hijos de estos
Son:
2.2.2.1.- Antonino Padilla Ramirez
2.2.2.2.- Felicitas Padilla Ramirez
2.2.2.3.- Silvina
2.2.2.4.- Jose Ana
2.2.2.5.- Ma. de Jesús
2.2.2.6.- Josefina
2.2.2.7.- Altagracia
2.2.2.8.- Joaquina
2.2.2.9.- Francisco
2.2.2.10.- Romana Padilla Ramirez nacida el
18-Nov-1907 en Valle de Glpe., Jal.

2.2.3.- Eliseo Ramirez Franco Nacido Aprox. en 1882.
casado con Pascuala Franco Morales, Hija de
Basilio Franco y Ma.Matilde Morales, nacida
Aprox. en 1881, solo tengo un hijo registrado:
2.2.3.1.- Leonardo Ramirez Franco nacido el
06-Dic-1907 en Valle de Glpe. Jal.

2.3 .- Nicolas Ramirez Gomez (Mi Tatarabuelo),
nacido Aprox. en 1844, casado con Serapia
Perez Gomez, hija de Gregorio Perez y Ma.
Refugio Gomez, nacida el 14-Nov-1850 en el
Rancho Acahuales, Mpo. de Tepa, Jal, muerta
el 25-Nov-1931 en Valle de Glpe., Jal.
casados el 28-Jun-1868 en Tepa, Jal. pidiendo
dispensa por parentesco de cosanguinidad en
tercer grado igual, eran primos segundos por lo
Perez, tengo registrados a los siguientes hijos:
2.3.1.- Josefa Ramirez Perez, (Mi Bisabuela)nacida
Aprox. en 1869, muerta el 23-Nov-1945 en Valle
de Glpe., Jal., casada con Gil Gutierrez Flores
hijo de José Guadalupe Gutierrez y de Ma.
Dolores Flores, nacido en Septiembre de 1859
en San Miguel El Alto, Jal., casados el 28 de
Octubre de 1885 en Jalos, entre sus hijos tengo
registrados a:

To Richard R.--

My husband has OLMOS in his family tree. His OLMOS are from the Ayo el Chico area. Can you be more specific with your Luis LOMELINI and OLMOS details?

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Patricia BURTON
San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Ricci, Richard wrote:

> From: Ricci, Richard
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis LOMELINI???
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:47 PM
> the lomelin olmos line descends from luis lomelin and not
> carlos
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf
> of patricia burton
> Sent: Sun 2/22/2009 7:36 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis LOMELINI???
>
>
>
> To Richard R.--
>
> My husband comes from the LOMELI/LOMELIN/ LOMELINI line. I
> have worked on part of the lines of Miguel HIDALGO, namely
> the ones that come from the GALLAGA part of the family.
> Would you please give some details on this brother of Carlos
> LOMELINI and how he fits into the Padre Miguel HIDALGO
> family tree? Many thanks.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patricia BURTON
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>
> --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Ricci, Richard
> wrote:
>
> > From: Ricci, Richard
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 2:18 PM
> > My notes have him as Carlos' brother. He is also
> the
> > ancestor of one of miguel Hidalgos lines. Miguel
> Hidalgo
> > Costilla descends from both brothers. The
> Lomelin's from
> > Puebla and Mexico City descend from Luis. Back then
> the
> > records show lomelin. Before that it is Lomellini or
> > lomelini. It wasn't until later that people
> started
> > dropping the n. In Portugal the lomelin line added an
> o to
> > make Lomelino. And the stories are true about one
> branch
> > leaving Genoa , going to Spain and cornering the slave
> trade
> > there. There rest of the family was into more
> legitimate
> > businesses.
> > There is a famous book that uses the Lomelini as the
> main
> > characters in the book. I have own a copy of the book
> but I
> > lent it to my niece and she hasn't returned it
> yet. I
> > have not read it because she was visiting when it
> arrived
> > and immediately asked to borrow it.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on
> behalf
> > of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
> > Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 11:46 PM
> > To: Patty Hoyos
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wHAT INFO DO OU HAVE ON LUíS LOMELINI? I HAVE NEVER
> HEARD
> > OF HIM JUST CARLO. -tHANKS. dANIEL
> >
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My parents were divorced when I was 10 which resulted in my not
having a close relationship with my father and his relatives. My
mother and dad spent the first 6 months of their marriage on the
ranches of his Uncles in and around Guadalajara before returning to
the US for my birth. My father remarried and his new family visited
Tepatitlan several times. I never had the opportunity and would like
to know more about that half of me. I started this research to try
to connect to my roots in Tepa. I have been successful in finding
names of direct ancestors, but have not been able to trace them to
who and where they are today.

Linda Romero

> Researching: Barba, de la Torre, Franco, Gutierrez, Martin,
> Pena, Romero

Hello All I waondering where can I find or if anyone can do a lookup on the Flores de la Torre and Flores-Alatorre family! I want to know how Flores Alatorre changed from Flores de la Torre. Also, is it true the patriarch Juan López de Elizalde is "hijo legítimo de Miguel López de Elizalde y Leonor de Aberruza"? Many Thanks! -Daniel

To Richard R.--

My husband comes from the LOMELI/LOMELIN/ LOMELINI line. I have worked on part of the lines of Miguel HIDALGO, namely the ones that come from the GALLAGA part of the family. Would you please give some details on this brother of Carlos LOMELINI and how he fits into the Padre Miguel HIDALGO family tree? Many thanks.

Sincerely,
Patricia BURTON
San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sat, 2/21/09, Ricci, Richard wrote:

> From: Ricci, Richard
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 2:18 PM
> My notes have him as Carlos' brother. He is also the
> ancestor of one of miguel Hidalgos lines. Miguel Hidalgo
> Costilla descends from both brothers. The Lomelin's from
> Puebla and Mexico City descend from Luis. Back then the
> records show lomelin. Before that it is Lomellini or
> lomelini. It wasn't until later that people started
> dropping the n. In Portugal the lomelin line added an o to
> make Lomelino. And the stories are true about one branch
> leaving Genoa , going to Spain and cornering the slave trade
> there. There rest of the family was into more legitimate
> businesses.
> There is a famous book that uses the Lomelini as the main
> characters in the book. I have own a copy of the book but I
> lent it to my niece and she hasn't returned it yet. I
> have not read it because she was visiting when it arrived
> and immediately asked to borrow it.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf
> of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
> Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 11:46 PM
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You
>
>
>
>
> wHAT INFO DO OU HAVE ON LUíS LOMELINI? I HAVE NEVER HEARD
> OF HIM JUST CARLO. -tHANKS. dANIEL
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
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Christobal de Medina married Maria de Avila (Abila) on May 2 1666 in Aguascalientes. In their marriage record their parents are not listed, and unfortunately the images of Marriage Licenses (Informacion Matrimonial) in the LDS Pilot site begin that year, but two months latter. So, I've hit a road block. However, there is some additional information that may help.
They had a daughter Beatriz de Medina de Avila b. 16 April 1687 married on March 11 1709 to Joseph de Reyes her cousin in 3rd degree, son of Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel de Esparza. The 'informacion matrimonial' refers to their relationship, they receive a 'dispensa' but no more details of how they are related. I've also in a road block with the Reyes-Esparza marriage, as I am unable to locate their marriage record.
There is also a Bernabe Medina, son of Christobal Medina and Maria Avila, who married Maria Theresa Romo Vibar on 12 April 1722 in Asientos, Aguascalientes.
Maybe someone in the group is related to these families and has additional information that will be greatly appreciated.

Jaime Alvarado

Christobal de Medina se caso con Maria de Avila (Abila) en Mayo 2 de 1666 en Aguascalientes. En su acta matrimonial no hay informacion de los padres y desgraciadamente las imagenes de informacion matrimonial en el portal Pilot de LDS no cominenzan sino hasta dos meses despues. Estoy atorado. Sin embargo, tengo informacion adicional que puede servir.
Tuvieron una hija, Beatris de Medin de Avila nacida 16 de Abril 1687 que se caso el 11 de Marzo de 1709 con Joseph de Reyes, su primo en tercer grado, hijo de Antonio de los Reyes e Isabel de Esparza. La informacion matrimonial hace referencia a la dispensa por su consanguinidad, pero no da mas informacion de su parentesco. De igual forma no tengo mas informacion de los ancestros de Antonio de Reyes e Isabel de Esparza, asi que estoy atorado ahi tambien.
Aparece tamien un Bernabe Medina, hijo de Crisotobal de Medina y Maria Avila que se caso con Maria Theresa Romo Vibar el 12 de Abril de 1722 en Asientos, Ags.
Quiza alguno miembro del grupo este relacionado ha estas familias y tenga informacion adicional de la que estare muy agradecido.

Jaime Alvarado

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

My grandmother's name was Paula/Pabla Ramos Mascorro.
She had 12 sisters. I only have the name of one sister, Longina/Lonjina Ramos Mascorro, christened on March 23 1863 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
Their parents names were Antonio Ramos and Jesusita/Jesue Mascorro.
Paula/Pabla married Guadalupe Martinez and her name became Paula/Pabla Ramos Martinez.
Anyone knowing or having any information and would like to share, please email me Delia Martinez-Fry at deljmar99@webtv.net.
Also, I have the book SAN GABRIEL VALLEY FAMILIES OF NUEVA GALICIA by Rosanne Gonzales-Hardy and would be willing to look up information on your ancestors and email it to you if you want.
Thank you for reading my post. Delia

Hi Jonathan!
I wish I had started doing genealogy 30 years ago!!! :-) The reason I
do genealogy is probably a selfish one......I only have one
brother.....I come from a small family and always wanted a larger
family......my parents had other ideas!! :-)
I have always had this "yearning" to find the rest of my
family.......although I knew very little about them. It gives me great
satisfaction when I discover a bit of information about them. I
am absolutely overjoyed when I finally meet one of my distant cousins
through genealogy! It is the very best feeling (for me) in this world!
My grandfather (Julian Trevino) was born when his father was age 71
and his mother was age 41! He was the last of 17 children from two
families of my great-grandfather!!! To me it is a great miracle that I
even exist!!! :-) When my grandfather was born he was given to his
padrinos (also his cousins) with the understanding that they never
change his Trevino surname. He was raised with cousins named Valdez
and Villarreal but his name was always Trevino.
I do my genealogy on the Valdez/Villarreal line as if it were my
primary line because they raised my grandfather. I do my Trevino/
Villarreal research because that is my paternal line. My mother's
line is Soto/Barrios.
To me there is nothing more fascinating than doing my genealogy and
discovering my ancestors!
Josie Trevino Trevino
Houston, TX
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
> been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made
> me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And
> I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group
> members.
>
> Jonathan

____________________________________________________________
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I'm reading a book titled Rivers of Gold by Hugh Thomas about the Rise and Fall of the Spanish Empire, from Columbus to Magellan.

Chapter 4 begins with the Genoese or Italian explorers and the influence on the Spanish crown. During the early 15th Century the Genoese merchants were dominant in Mediterranean commerce. The Italians were very influential to the Spanish crown as there also happened to be a sitting Genoese Pope, Pope Innocent VIII. whose ancestry was purported to be Genoese on both sides of his family.

Among the prominent Genoese families was the Lomellini family. According to this book, the Lomellini's controlled the Portuguese Gold trade and dominated the salt and silver commerce of Sardinia and Ceuta. They brought most of the Gold from Africa by caravan and their other specialty was the slave trade. Unlike the Portuguese who traded slaves and then aimed to convert them to Christianity, the Genoese traded gold and slaves in Crimea, Tunisia, Malaga, Granada and Chios and their aim was to make money, not to convert slaves.

The slaves were Circassians, Ethiopians, Slavs, Bosnians, Berbers and Black Africans, Canary Islanders, Muslims and Greeks and even Christians. They would trade men women and children and trade them on the open world markets. They were great seafaring families as were Columbus and his brothers.

Just thought I'd share a little history with those who have Lomeillini ancestors.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

For Jonathan:

Why do I do genealogy? For my children and grandchildren, and for myself. Because I grew up with only one grandparent (the others had died long before I was born), there was always this troubling feeling of not knowing where we came from, and what made us what we are. The following two quotations explain this better than I can:

The first is from an old posting to the Puerto Rican board by Charles Batiz:

Family history is the study of the past
to find our place in the present,
to learn to hear "the voices in our blood,
the silent voices that run through our veins,
that make up who we are and where we stand
in a never-ending line of ancestors and descendants."

And the second is this poem I came across some years ago:
>From Cronica Mexicayotl, by Fernando Alvarado Tezozomoc

Never will it be lost,
never will it be forgotten,
that which they came to do,
that which they came to record
in their paintings:

Their renown,
their history,
their memory.

Thus in the future
never will it perish,
never will it be forgotten;
always we will treasure it.

We,
their children
their grandchildren,
brothers,
great-grandchildren,
great-great grandchildren,
descendants,
we who carry their blood
and their color:

We will tell it,
we will pass it on
to those who do not yet live,
to those who are to be born:
the children of the Mexicans,
the children of the Tenochcans....

Found this in my notes and thought it might be of interest to the group:

Luis
=========================================================
SIXTEENTH CENTURY INDIGENOUS JALISCO
by John P. Schmal © 2001

The modern state of Jalisco consists of 31,152 square miles (80,684 square kilometers) located in the west central portion of the Mexican Republic. However, the Jalisco of colonial Mexico was not an individual political entity but part of the Spanish province of Nueva Galicia, which embraced some 180,000 kilometers ranging from the Pacific Ocean to the foothills of the Sierra Madre Occidental.

Besides the present-day state of Jalisco, Nueva Galicia also included the states of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Nayarit, and the northwest corner of San Luis Potosí. Across this broad range of territory, a wide array of indigenous groups lived before 1522 (the first year of contact with Spanish explorers). Domingo Lázaro de Arregui, in his "Descripción de la Nueva Galicia" - published in 1621 - wrote that 72 languages were spoken in the Spanish colonial province of Nueva Galicia.

As the Spaniards and their Indian allies from the south made their way into Nueva Galicia early in the Sixteenth Century, they encountered large numbers of nomadic Chichimeca Indians. Philip Wayne Powell - whose Soldiers, Indians, and Silver: North America's First Frontier War is the definitive source of information relating to the Chichimeca Indians - referred to Chichimeca as "an all-inclusive epithet" that had "a spiteful connotation." The Spaniards borrowed this designation from their Aztec allies and started to refer to the large stretch Chichimeca territory as La Gran Chichimeca.

Afredo Moreno González, in his recent book Santa Maria de Los Lagos, explains that the word Chichimeca has been subject to various interpretations over the years. Some of these suggestions included "linaje de perros" (of dog lineage), "perros altaneros" (arrogant dogs), or "chupadores de sangre" (blood-suckers). In any case, it was apparent that the Mexican Indians of the south did not hold their northern counterparts in high regard. However, in time, they learned to both fear and respect many of these Indians as brave and courageous defenders of their ancestral homelands.

Unfortunately, the widespread displacement that took place starting in 1529 prevents us from obtaining a clear picture of the indigenous Jalisco that existed in pre-Hispanic times. Four primary factors influenced the post-contact indigenous distribution of Jalisco and its evolution into a Spanish colonial province. The first factor was the 1529-30 campaign of Nuño Beltrán de Guzmán. In The North Frontier of New Spain, Peter Gerhard wrote that "Guzmán, with a large force of Spaniards, Mexican allies, and Tarascan slaves, went through here in a rapid and brutal campaign lasting from February to June 1530… Guzmán's strategy was to terrorize the natives with often unprovoked killing, torture, and enslavement."

Once Guzmán had consolidated his conquests, he ordered all of the conquered Indians of Jalisco to be distributed among Spanish encomiendas. The individual receiving the encomienda, known as the encomendero, received free labor and tribute from the Indians, in return for which the subjects were commended to the encomendero's care. As might be expected, such institutions were prone to misuse and, as a result, many Indians were reduced to slave labor and - all too often - death. Although Guzmán was arrested and imprisoned in 1536, his reign of terror had set into motion institutions that led to the widespread displacement of the indigenous people of Jalisco.

The second factor was the Mixtón Rebellion of 1541-1542. This indigenous uprising was a desperate attempt by the Cazcanes Indians to drive the Spaniards out of Nueva Galicia. In response to the desperate situation, Viceroy Mendoza assembled a force of 450 Spaniards and some 30,000 Aztec and Tlaxcalan supporting troops. In a series of short sieges and assaults, Mendoza gradually suffocated the uprising. The aftermath of this defeat, according to Peter Gerhard, led to thousands of deaths. In addition, he writes, "thousands were driven off in chains to the mines, and many of the survivors (mostly women and children) were transported from their homelands to work on Spanish farms and haciendas."

The third factor influencing Jalisco's evolution was the complex set of relationships that the Spaniards enjoyed with their Indian allies. As the frontier moved outward from the center, the military would seek to form alliances with friendly Indian groups. Then, in 1550, the Chichimeca War had began. This guerrilla war, which continued until the last decade of the century, was primarily fought by Chichimeca Indians defending their lands in Zacatecas, Guanajuato, Aguascalientes, and northern Jalisco.

The Chichimeca conflict forced the Spaniards to rely heavily upon their Indian allies. The result of this dependence upon indigenous allies as soldados (soldiers) and pobladores (settlers) led to enormous and wide-ranging migration and resettlement patterns that would transform the geographic nature of the indigenous peoples of Nueva Galicia. In describing this phenomenon, Mr. Powell noted that the "Indians formed the bulk of the fighting forces against the Chichimeca warriors… As fighters, as burden bearers, as interpreters, as scouts, as emissaries, the pacified natives of New Spain played significant and often indispensable roles in subjugating and civilizing the Chichimeca country."

I made a table about the Mendoza family showing how they married into several prominant spanish families and the many surnames they created. I think it could help us look at the big picture. I've never knew how important this family was. Just today, i found 4 mor Mendoza lines conncecting back to Toribio and Isabel, that brings me to a total of 14 and I have about 3 more that Im trying my best to connect but no luck. This table hopefully helps someone in the group. This shows the many "Mendoza surnames" that were created all from the original Hurtado de Mendoza. Also, I included what I believe are Toribio and Isabel's parents. I have some research and work done. Toribio grandmother "was" according to me Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza the daughter of the Duke Mendoza which would make Toribio and Isabel second cousins. Is it by chance that their daughters have the same names as Toribio's grnadmothers. Catalina, Isabel, Juana, Anna and also their grandchildren' The names keep repeating in the family. I know that Toribio was a relative to the Ramírez de Arellano of Los Altos and to Cortes' wife. I think the Hernández de Arellano was created by Thoribios "parents" (the one i believe to be) His father is the son of the Duke of Hijar and his mother is the Count of Aguilar (Los Arellanos) Hence Hernández de Arellano. I have better evidence that could support it. This is taken from Los Altos system of two important families merging names. If it's not them I know it someone in the family I found in the Arellanos and Hijars; this is pretty darn close. It should be them. The file is in my file folder. Daniel Méndez del Camino