Nuestros Ranchos Site

I think in the second set of documents the cited Juan Moscoso Sandoval is alive. Therefore it cannot be the one married to Catalina Cortes nor his son. It does say Bernardino is the "tio" of the Juan Moscoso Sandoval in the documents.

I cannot say for sure who this Bernardino is but he could be of the generation of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes' children or a child of one of their earliest children. He could be a child of Mariana Moscoso y Sandoval Cortes and Bernardino Gonzalez de Islas for example.

Sorry I couldnt be much help

When adding dispensas to my tree I generally don't consolidate them with other lines without more information due to name similarities.  As such, I never joined the Rios-Siordia dispensa Manny provided to my tree of confirmed descendants of Martin Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma.

IM for Geronimo de los Rios m. Francisca Siordia teaches:

Cristobal Navarro         1. Maria Navarro

Maria Navarro              2. Antonio Siordia

Geronimo de los Rios  3. Francisca Siordia

                                     4. Maria de Chaves

                                     5. Francisca Siordia

Now I understand the trunk of this tree is supposed to be Martin Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma but I was wondering if there was any "smoking gun" that you all are aware of to prove this (i.e. force consolidation with known lines). I get that Maria Gabai y Moctezuma ( i.e. 1. Maria Navarro m. Pedro Hernandez de Vaulus) had a daughter named Juana Siordia so this is a big indicator this is correct. However Antonio Siordia and Maria Iniguez's marriage record does not name parents. Also when reanalyzing this line I noticed Francisca Siordia m. Juan Chavez Salguero's marriage occurred in 1633 while her parent's occurred in 1631. I thought that was strange!

Thank you Manny. My wife has “De la Cruz” ancestry in San Juan de Los Lagos. Do you know if the De La Cruz from Lagos descends from this line?

Thanks Again for your wonderful work,
Rick A. Ricci

As usual you have all the sources I already have and then some! Good work Manny, I always look forward to your posts!

Thanks Manny, this information is very useful.

Danny

La familia Bravo de Lagunas fue una familia que estaba ligada mediante servicio civil y militar a los duques de Béjar. Una rama pasó a Brabante (actualmente Holanda) estaban relacionados con la familia Ramírez de Coy y probablemente con la familia Rico de Rojas de Querétaro.

Entre los más conocidos estuvo Don Sancho Bravo de Lagunas, alcaide de la fortaleza de Gibraleón.

Otro fue el capitán Juan Bravo de Lagunas, conquistador de México con Hernán Cortés que fue Alcalde Mayor de Chichimecas (Querétaro y Guanajuato) en 1548.

Tomas Hernandez Gamiño es HIJO de Cristobal Hernandez Gamiño.

Y

Tomas Hernandez Liebana es HIJO de Tomas Hernandez Gamiño Y nieto de Cristobal Hernandez Gamiño..

se puede ver aqui... y porque necesitaban dispensa 

Juan Antonio Hernandez Lomelin  y Maria Margarita Hernandez Casillas

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTK7-BRC

He pasado muchas horas buscando pruebas que sustenten la afirmación del estimado investigador Steven F. Hernández López pero no he tenido éxito. La opinión de este humilde investigador es que acepto los parentescos dados en la dispensa de Juan Antonio Hernández como muy probablemente verdaderas. ¿Qué piensan los demás?

La citada revista fue publicada en 2003. Quizás, en el momento de la publicación del artículo, el señor Steven F. Hernández López no conocía la dispensa de Juan Antonio Hernández. (Tal vez él mismo podría darnos su opinión aquí en este foro).

Hi, I think it's fairly common. In my case, my 3rd grand father (Pedro Navarro AKA Pedro Vivas AKA Pedro Rivas AKA Pedro González) is mentioned as a legitimate child of a Trinidad Navarro and Eugenia Vivas in his marriage information, but in his birth information he's the son of Eugenia Vivas and unknown father. 
To make things more confusing in certain documents he mentions that his father is Luis Gabriel González, but always names his mother as Eugenia Vivas or Rivas. 
Until now I haven't found any dispensa or marriage documents from Eugenia Vivas, so I am guessing the "Legitimate" status in his marriage information may be made up.

Best regards!

to state if the child was legitimo or natural......Sometimes they even kept a separate book for the "hijos naturales".....

in her page.

I can't believe spaced it earlier.  It is relevant because you and another person were using that as her supposed name.  Maybe it will help with searches later.  

You can see multiple alternate names, and spelling of names, under the "Other Information" section of her page:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2BLY-LX2

In the comments section there is this thread where the individual is discussing Magdalen's husband's parents!  https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/25009

more than you want to know!  

quite filled out I must say... and, YES, you can see Magdalena's parents there...her name was:

 Magdalena Hernández Velázquez y Ruiz de Haro

Gotta have the right name... otherwise it's a bear.  I'm fairly confident this is what you're looking for????  Well, hopefully....

TREE:   https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LY99-PPD

Magda's page:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2BLY-LX2

https://es.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=RUIZ+DE+VELASCO+RUIZ&place__0__=Ayo+el+Chico&size=50

and here your specific individual.  https://gw.geneanet.org/ayutla?n=de+aceves+y+ruiz+de+velasco&oc=&p=nicolas

some text from that page

Padres

• Joseph de Aceves Fernández y Becerra
• Magdalena Velasco

 Casamiento(s) y/e  hijo(s)

• Casado el 13 de febrero de 1706, Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico, con Catalina de Castillo y la Torre con
  • Anselmo De Asebes

Is Ayo El Chico, Jalisco where she was born?  Or married?   Or perhaps both?

FYI:   https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Spanish_Genealogical_Word_List

They are older spellings of mozo and moza that use the c-cedilla (ç).

• cedilla (https://dle.rae.es/cedilla)
• Çç (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87)
• For example: Aldonça, Gonçalo

you did not add a link to check, but when I see things like this I go look at other entries by the same scribe to see if I notice a pattern.... if there is a pattern by this particular scribe then it would likely be a valid assumption.

just got curious so went and looked.  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GK3W-G34

and here is the Maternal Pacheco side..  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GHWH-CM3

Hola Prima. I too have been researching my Pacheco lineage and haven't been able to move beyond the 1850s. It's crazy.

I've done my DNA testing through MyHeritage, Ancestry.com, and am about to send a sample to 23andme later today or tomorrow.

I've found it very difficult tracing the Pacheco lineage.

¡Buena suerte!

Have you looked in the archives of Guadalajara? Don’t forget: Zacatecas was part of the Kingdom of Nueva Galicia during the viceroy period, whose capital was Guadalajara, and some of its historical archives are available online.These archives are not indexed, so you’ll have to go through the individual rolls of film.

Here are the testamentos, 1500-1895: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/130231?availability=Family%…

And here are the notary archives. Some testamentos, codicils, and probate records can be found among them: 
1583-1674: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/198356?availability=Family%…
1606-1903: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/35680?availability=Family%2…

Here’s another resource that I came upon that I found useful for at least one of my ancestors, it’s an archives of testamentos and probate records from 16th century Zacatecas: http://ru.juridicas.unam.mx/xmlui/handle/123456789/9366

If the individuals were peninsulars living in the new world, some “bienes de difuntos” can be found at the PARES website, Make sure you select the Archivo General de Indias in the filter: http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/search

I hope you find these useful - good luck!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Have you tried FamilySearch? they have most church records online.

Looks like the name is JOSEPH DE JESUS NAJAR SANCHEZ and he married Maria de los Dolores Moya Y Plasencia on 05 FEB 1780 at Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico, and his parents were MANUEL NAJAR and MARIA GERTRUDIS SANCHEZ.    

  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTLL-1TK

Maria de los Dolores Moya Y Placencia has parents named Manuel Moya and it seems like the mother's first name, "Maria Gertrudis", is assumed ...but her surname "Plasencia' appears to carry forward when mentioned in other children and grandchildren birth records.  The mother's name "Maria Gertrudis" is mentioned in the marriage record but it could be a transcription error since the grooms mother's first name is also "Maria Gertrudis".....  Anyway, there it is...hope it helps.

I read the document that confirms that the parents of Alonso Perez Toriello are Diego Rodriguez de Herrera and Ysavel Hernandez Muñoz.    This leads back to the Perstrello family in Portugal which was originally Pallestrelli from Italy.  
 

This Alonso Perestrello (Alonso Perez Toriello) is an ancestor of the Franco, PerezFranco, Perez de Paredes, Franco Perez family in Los Altos de Jalisco. 

Rick A. Ricci

Colonia Pedro Raygoza (Los Sauces), Tabasco, Estado de Zacatecas, Mexico

https://www.google.com/maps/place/99655+Colonia+Pedro+Raygoza,+Zacatecas,+Mexico/@21.8982893,-103.0098734,12z/data=!4m22!1m15!4m14!1m6!1m2!1s0x842838f81653a683:0x4c67b8b018da6f4e!2sHuanusco,+Zacatecas,+Mexico!2m2!1d-102.975219!2d21.7737943!1m6!1m2!1s0x84282f7896029679:0x79e25071df3b8b20!2s99655+Colonia+Pedro+Raygoza,+Zacatecas,+Mexico!2m2!1d-102.9836111!2d21.9577777!3m5!1s0x84282f7896029679:0x79e25071df3b8b20!8m2!3d21.9577777!4d-102.9836111!16s%2Fg%2F11c2jb770l?entry=ttu

used to be Los Sauces

https://mapcarta.com/es/30081588

Image

Or “de los Sauces” (of "The Willows") which would’ve been a place name, maybe a hacienda or a ranch or a district.  

Saludos,

Manny Díez Hermosillo

the prior month of July; so----  "el cuatro de Julio P. PDO ..."  mean the 4th of previous July (the July before this 12 sep entry).  Note that the entry is being recorded on 12 September 1927......so that would mean 4 JULY 1927.  

(From google:  ¿Que se significa el mes proximo pasado?   La expresión próximo pasado se usa para referirse al día, semana, mes o año mencionado inmediatamente anterior; el año próximo pasado es el último que hubo antes de éste.)

I'll go buff up the entry.

Apparently his real name is "J. Refugio"..... which would generally understood to be "Jose Refugio"

Here.... I initiated and populated some of your tree.....  lots of info available...  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GR29-BRV

Dear Carlos,

I researched the naming of Conquistadors and found that you were right that some people that went on Vasquez De Coronados’s expedition were also referred to as Conquistador. So we have two men named Pedro Ledesma that were conquistadors but they were not involved in the same events.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

I have previously stated that criado meant servant but it had different connotations in the 1500’s. Criado could mean what we now call personal assistant or Subordinate. Many criados when on to hold high positions in government.

Dear Jose Alfredo,

Many years ago I received some information on the Ledezma family from another genealogist that was also researching the Ledesmas that came to Mexico. His primary focus was trying to find his Ledesma ancestors from Guanajuato. He had come to a brick wall so he was researching all the Ledesmas that came from Spain. He informed me that the Ledesma ancestral branch (From Los altos de Jalisco) that I was investigating descended from a family in Zamora Spain that also left much descent in South America. He provided my starting point for investigating in Spain but I also ran into a brickwall like he did. That is until a couple of years later when I was working on another research project and discovered at the bottom of the page written in small print that the Ledesma that I was stuck at was the son of a woman who is the illegitimate daughter of a prince of Castilla. I became fascinated by this find and renewed my efforts into finding my Ledesma ancestry. What I discovered was that the family had been involved in a big scandal a few generations before that had caused many family members to change their surname. Many of the family used variations of four different surnames which made tracking the family more difficult. I discovered that the genealogists who had shared his findings with me was correct that this family has many descendants in South America. Besides descending from royalty through his mother I also found that his father’s and his wife’s ancestral lines show that many generations back both of them descended from King Alfonso IX of Leon.

But my interests concern the Pedro Ledesma that is the progenitor of my De La Torre-Ledesma ancestors and I could not find Isabel Grado as a wife of one of the many Pedro Ledesmas from this family. What I found was a Pedro Ledesma that was married to a woman who was from Salamanca. That is all it says about them so I don’t know if this woman is the same woman known as Isabel Grado. This Pedro Ledesma also has a great uncle also named Pedro Ledesma that does not have a wife listed in the family tree. This led me back to researching my Pedro Ledesma that is married to Catalina Mejia De La Torre. Like you, I saw that it was written in a secondary source that he is the Pedro Ledesma known as a conquistador and that he was the son of Pedro Ledesma and Isabel Grado. My research into this theory proved that the conquistador Pedro Ledesma and the Pedro Ledesma married to Catalina Mejia De La Torre are two different people. So that leaves the situation where the Pedro Ledesma and Isabel Grado are not the parents of Pedro Ledesma that is married to Catalina if they are the parents of the conquistador.

So we have the ancestral line in Spain since we know who Pedro Ledesma that is married to Catalina De La Torre descends from, yet we have a weak link in Mexico at this time because we don’t know if the Pedro Ledesma married to Isabel Grado is the same couple as the Pedro Ledesma married to a woman from Salamanca.

I have much more information on this family that I will be presenting in my book. One of the stories of this Ledesma family involves the attempt to bribe the brother of an ancestor of many people in Nueva Galicia.

The Pedro Ledesma that is married to the “woman from Salamanca” is a relative of Hernan Cortez the Conquistador through his mother’s side. A paternal cousin of this Pedro Ledesma came to Mexico and was identified as Hernan Cortez’s cousin so there is also a familial connection through Pedro Ledesma’s paternal side.

Rick A. Ricci
Source :Mygenes2000

Hola a todos:

Reconozco algunos de los apellidos de su investigación:

Sotomayor.- Gabriel de Sotomayor era el hombre más rico de Querétaro en 1643. También en Acámbaro había una familia de encomenderos que se apellidaban Sotomayor, sin embargo, no he encontrado suficiente documentación de estas personas.

Ruelas.- Ya en una ocasión transcribí parte del testamento de Juan de Las Ruelas quien testó en Querétaro el 9 de febrero de 1602, dijo ser natural de Sevilla, hijo de Hernando de Las Ruelas y de Francisca de Medina. Heredó varias casas en la Calle Real de Zacatecas a su hija Leonor de Las Ruelas y dijo tener un hijo llamado Hernando que se fue a España y tenía además a sus hijas Beatriz y Felipa de Vargas.

Montañés.- Hay una familia de Querétaro que estuvo ligada con las familias de Jalisco como los Híjar, los Monroy.

Andrés Martín.- Hubo un Andrés Martín natural de Vargas, Toledo que testó en Querétaro en el año 1600, declaró tener un hermano llamado Diego Martín a quien le prestó 300 pesos para comprar cenizas en San Luis. Dijo que no tenía herederos y dejo sus bienes a Ana Hernández, mujer que lo cuidaba durante su enfermedad.

Hubo además otra familia Martín de las principales de Querétaro, pero fue en el siglo XVI eran varios hermanos encargados del abasto de carnes.

Enríquez: era la familia principal de San Luis de La Paz.

Tal vez convenga que extiendan sus investigaciones a esta zona porque muchas familias de Queretáro tenían tierras de San Luis Potosí y en la Sierra de Pinos.

Saludos

Marcelina

Mary Lou mentions in her Juan Montanez article that Elena Sotomayor and Diego Perez de Frias were married 9 July 1656 in Pinos. Anyone know how I can locate this record?

Manny,

I've just seen this post, and of course, I am so thankful that you have not only located the various records but have unified them into a narrative that allows us to understand the events reported. I have so many familial lines to study, so when I see a report like this about one of my ancestors, it makes me want to work harder to sort through all of the available documentation I have located. Thank you so much for all the hard work you have spent on this!

Rosalinda

thank you for sharing more great information on our ancestor Maria de las Ruelas.

A super thank you to Mary Lou Montagna for lighting your way.

Thank you so much, Manny, for your discoveries re one of my favorite ancestors. You are persistent, precise and a great narrator. I need to digest this new data and update my files. Stored files that have gathered dust for many years. You may even have coaxed me out of research retirement. Wouldn't it be great to identify that great lady's parents?!

Saludos y mil gracias,
Mary Lou

I’d like to express my immense gratitude for your generosity in sharing these documents, as well as composing such an awesome synopsis of the aforementioned documents- a very enjoyable and comprehensible read!

I have spent many hours rummaging through the San Luis Potosí collections, and I am very glad you have found my ancestor Juan de Salcido’s testamento! I have been working extensively on the de Salcido line for a long time.

Regarding Maria de las Ruelas, she is my ancestor numerous time over across many generations (as I’m sure many of you) and is one of my favorites to explore. In all these documents one would believe we’d get insight into her parentage, but I personally have not yet so the search must continue!

This thread spotlights our abuela Maria de las Ruelas so perfectly that I will post another thread concerning some of the de Salcido documentation I have located over time.

Stay well and mucho agradezco for your plethora of knowledge and generosity.

...it is mentioned in the birth of her kid(s).  I found a Jose Arechar in Los Pinos who i think is the same guy and he has a whole 'nother family....but I cannot confirm so i did not merge the 2 Joses...  One her names in Familysearch dot org is Tomasa Arechar Rodriguez....   https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/GW7L-X2J

here you.... I tried to translate as accurately as I could read the thing.  and here is a direct link to the page: 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BS3W-R?view=index&pers…

In the Chapel of Los Campos on 2 May 1865, i the "presbiterio"  (D.=Mr) Mr Mucio Godina(?), with License from the Parrish, with prior necessary consent(s), the examination(as best as i can tell) of the Christian Doctrine, the three moviciones( (conditions?) provided for by the Holy Council of Trent,  that were the 16th, 23d, and 30th of the previous month, which resulted in not any impediment, prepared with the Holy Sacraments of the Penitence and Eucharist, married and blessed, in faciae ecleciae (IN FACIE ECCLESIAE. Definition: In facie ecclesiae means "in the face of the church."), Jose Dolores Jimenez, celibate of 21 years of age, originally from Los Pinos, and resident("vecino" is kinda like neighbor from) of La Monteza, legitimate son of Jose Guadalupe Jimenez and of Juana Martinez that are alive, with Tomasa Rodriguez, celibate of 15 years of age, originally and neighbor of Rancho de La Milpa, Natural Daughter (read: illegitimate) of Estefana Rodriguez who is alive.  Godparents Ydelfonso & Martina Jimenez.  Witnesses Andres Lopez & Rosalino Santoya.  For the record I signed along with the Priest. 

José Dolores Jiménez (single, 21 years old, from Pinos and legitimate son of José Guadalupe Jiménez and Juana Martínez) and Tomasa Rodríguez (single, 15 years old, from Rancho de la Milpa and natural daughter of Estéfana Rodríguez) were married in the chapel of the hacienda of los Campos on May 22, 1865.

Here is the link to their información matrimonial: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-YRDZ-X. It adds that he is originally from Pinos and was then a resident of La Monteza. The witnesses all confirmed the biographical information.

I was just informed that my third cousin Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez passed away a couple of days ago.

We were related repeatedly with the closest ties being from our Ramirez lines. 

May he rest in peace, 

Rick A. Ricci

I found this person and started linking here...  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6DT3-MPX5

and THEN....... this tree POPPED UP !!   Is this your tree?   https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G6K3-NTR

It would be best if you provided some other names....such as parents or spouse or chidlren.   Is the first name JUAN ZACARIAS?  And the surname Sauedo Udabe?   What date range are we asking about for this individual?  about what year was he born?  died?   

go take a look and check me...  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LD5S-QTC

Go to the tree below and you can start filling it in even more.  One of those border crossing cards even mentioned the restaurant EL TEXCOCO INN... added it as a source to Elena profile.....   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77TD-HR9D-T?i=1285&cc=19160…

anyway...I tied it together a little but you can go in there start tracing backwards.... you can see the potential grandparents and whatnot....go look and have fun filling in the gaps..

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/LD5S-QTC

ps- that little chart you posted really helped in getting going...

Hello Ken,

I looked up your grandfather’s marriage and baptismal records.  What popped out was that he is living in Texas in the same area where I did research on QB Tony Romo’s great grandmother, Bexar Texas.   Pedro’s grandparents are listed in his baptismal record.

Good luck in your research Ken,

Rick A. Ricci

Look up my past posts on Lope Ruiz de Esparza’s ancestors and descendants. 

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

You asked for help yet you didn’t provide any information that could possibly help identify them as a spouse.   Was Ladislao married to Maria de Jesus Chavez?   Was Ciriaco married to Maria del Refugio Jimenez? Was Simon married to a woman surnamed Trujillo?

Good Luck in your research

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Daniel,

I believe we share some ancestors! My family also comes from Paso de Sotos/Villa Hidalgo.  

Welcome Daniel. IF you're stuck on specific people, you should post their names, it's possible that others are working on the same line.

Danny

Welcome to the site, Daniel!

works to see a LOT on one page.  The items are selectable and if updated then when clicked on it will display the individual and where from.

at least folks could have a place to start looking around.

In Rafael Oroscos second marriage to Maria Ignacia Martin you will see that it is written that he is a widower and that his first wife was Maria Guadalupe Vargas (Bargas).

blob:https://www.familysearch.org/cef34b72-fd89-4f74-985d-2bace1e2a5b2

Rick A. Ricci

just follow the tree and click on the individuals.    go take a peek.  see what you think  both wives now on marriage tree.  Guadalupe Bargas died giving birth to Jose Bitor ... record shows she died giving birth - "mal parto" (bad childbirth)   https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GQHL-Q2S

If you look at the record for his marriage to Ygnacia it mentions that his first wife was buried at the "Iglesia de San Migule" 2 years earlier.