Nuestros Ranchos Site

It is inaccurate to say that some of these families were Italians only because they came from Genoa, not Italy. The country that we know as “Italy” did not exist in the 1500’s. I have done a tremendous amount of research looking for Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry. I don’t know anyone that has investigated this family as much as I have. Steven Francisco Hernandez has provided valuable puzzle pieces that support my research on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestors. Through private conversations, I have also provided Steven with information about a treasure trove of Lomelin documents that I have found proving the Genoese ancestors. I asked Steven to not disclose all of the information that I had shared with him until I published my book. Steven is also correct that Guido Lavezzari comes from another Genoese family as primary source records also identify his paternal ancestors as Genoese. Steven is also correct that the Espinoza surname was originally Spinola and that they had its origins in Genoa. The surname Lomellini went through changes as the family branches out to Spain, Portugal, and England. The Lomellini became Lomelin in Spain, Lomelino in Portugal, and a few different variations in England. Carlo Lomelin and Luis Lomelin left many descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco.   Carlo and Luis Lomelin were said by family to be brothers, but I am not sure if the Luis Lomelin in Mexico is his brother or his uncle, as his father also had an brother named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin.  Carlo (Carlos) Lomelin did have a brother named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin.   Carlo also had an uncle named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin. There were many siblings in this family. Another brother of Carlo Lomelin handled his affairs when he passed away.   The Carlos Lomelin that is my ancestor is not the same CarLo Lomellini that is the son of Porzia (Porchia). That Carlo Lomelini that is the son of Porzia is a fourth cousin. Spanish “Lomelin” surname became Lomeli in Los Altos De Jalisco, and that was just relatively recently, as my wife’s maternal grandfather stated that he originally signed his name Lomelin before his children were born. His children were the first in the family to not have the “n” at the end of the surname. There are many primary sources showing the presence of “Italians” on the Iberian Peninsula. This is a fact that is proven without much research, so I don’t know why anyone that is a researcher would deny where these families came from. In fact, parts of what we now consider Italy had closer affiliation at different times to Aragon and Castilla (which were also separate kingdoms) than some other “Italian City-States”. 
Rick A. Ricci

Estimado señor Vicente de San Miguel

Dándole por mi parte la bienvenida a este foro no puedo dejar pasar la ocasión para informarle que si la persona a que usted se refiere llamada Steven es nuestro primo (de todos los alteños) Steven Francisco Hernández, he de decirle que es un investigador serio como el que más, riguroso, generoso y exhaustivo en sus publicaciones y que puede usted tomar preferentemente cualquier publicación que él firme frente a la de prácticamente cualquier otro autor.

Por lo demás, sobre los apellidos que usted enlista podrá usted con sus propios ojos recorrer el copioso número de investigaciones que aquí están publicadas y que se han perfeccionado con la colaboración de valiosos y generosos investigadores.

Pregunta: donde puedo consultar el tema (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573) para el tema familia de la Garza.
Gracias
Humberto Pro
frio@prodigy.net.mx

Hola Vale ,como esta? ojala que bien. Mi antepasado era Carlos Lomellini y era de genoa,Italia como era moro ? > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: castrosivicente@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:41:17 -0700> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del> > > Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del siglo XVI.> > Se desprendían desde Guadalajara hacia Teocaltiche., de ahí hacia Jalostotitlan, Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Mirandilla, Valle de Guadalupe, Tepatitlán y Guadalajara de nuevo.> > De estas mismas ramas, hubo desplazamientos hacia León (familia Ulloa y Parada Aguilar), Silao, Celaya e Irapuato (familia Martín), Gto.> De Jalostotitlán, salió la familia Garza para fundar la ciudad de Monterrey, NL.> (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573).> > TRONCOS FAMILIARES PRINCIPALES> > 1. Lomelí, Gallo, González (provenientes de Yahualica).> 2. Padilla, Reynoso.> 3. Issasi, Serrano, Sanromán, Ortiz de Parada, Hermosillo.> 4. Pérez, Franco, Padilla, Jiménez, Reynoso, González> 5. Barba, González.> > Fuente: Sociedad y conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco. Pág. 87, citado por Gtz, Gtz J.A. 1989. Colección Regiones. CONACULTA.> > Escribo esto, porque una persona de nombre Steven, asegura equivocadamente que los apellidos Lomelín, Isassi, Lavezares y Sigala, provienen de italianos que se asentaron en Los Altos, lo cual es inexacto.> Lomelín es de origen moro, asentado en Granada y Córdoba al Sur de España. Ya en 1624 un portador de este apellido era Don Pedro Lomelín.> Isassi es de origen totalmente vasco, siendo uno de sus representantes don Francisco Isassi de Olavarría.> Lavezares, proviene de la provincia de Vizcaya, donde destaca el militar Guido de Lavezares> Sigala proviene de Palma de Mallorca y su escudo consta de un águila de plata con las patas y garras puestas hacia arriba en situación de ataque.> > Saludos, Vicente de San Miguel.> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Introducing Live Search cashback . It's search that pays you back!
http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=intro…

I’m sure you probably know that some IMs for Cienega de Mata during the late 1600s can be found in the Asuncion de Maria parish in Aguascalientes? If not, I see several Luna’s - all of them Indios, including an IM for Don Cristobal HL de Don Cristobal cc Beatriz Ynes. George Fulton indexed those IMs years ago, and uploaded them to the reference files here at NR. The filmrolls have since been rearranged, but the roll numbers remain the same, you’ll just have to go by the dates. You can download the PDFs here: https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

Also, Encinillas was historically in the parish of San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. While there are records for Indian baptisms dating back to the late 1600s, they are well-indexed and easily found. But the IMs go back to 1650, so try digging around in that film roll. Perhaps there’s a marriage in there, and sometimes you can find ancestors appears as testigos.

I had also indexed sacramental records done in San Matias, 1613-1647, but I just checked them, and I see no Luna’s. But if you want to check, the pdf can be downloaded here: https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24112

Good luck!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

I doubt that John P. Schmal covered the specifics of your question but I haven't read everything he has written. Might be worth a search

Hola Travis!

I know that the settler colonial records refer only to Indigenous peoples as "Indios" but this is a very offensive term for many Indigenous peoples or personas Indigenas o de pueblos originarios. Also, Indigenous law experts use the capital I for Indigenous. As we know better, we can do better. May I please ask that you refrain from using the term, "Indio" unless you are citing the language listed in a colonial record. As a person of Indigenous descent on my mother's side (Mexico) and my father's said (Cherokee), I would appreciate it if this space doesn't use offensive terminology when speaking about us. Thank you!  

Joseph,

Sounds like a pretty cool site.   Another one that is not as sophisticated, but works for me is: Transkribus

I have some very old Latin documents from England that are pretty much unreadable to me (from the 1550's).  With Transkribus, you drop your document onto their online folder, and it begins scanning (multiple passes).  When the scans have been completed, it offers you the choice of copying the transcribed document to a .PDF, .DOC, or Clipboard (as plain text).  The document scans are fairly quick, usually within a few minutes.

The thing is, once transcribed, you need to go to another free app, like "Google Translate", and convert the Latin transcription to a language you may need, in my case just plain ole English.  It is hit and miss on accuracy, but for me "something" is better then nothing (in most cases).

I only use the free version (apparently 50 free scans per month), but apparently the paid version can clean these documents up even further.

Hopefully this technology (AI) can continue to advance document interpretation, which is a major block for some researchers (such as myself) when getting back beyond the 1600's.

Lee

Hello! 

Do you have more information about Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas? Maybe he is related to Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, (born about 1624, probably in Lagos, possibly son of Diego Pérez and an unknown daughter of María Rubio)? 

The 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos lists Gerónima de Ornelas, viuda, living in the household of Juan Pérez with his widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and his children Antonio, Angelina and Ysidro (children of Juan and Antonia go by surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Mendoza and Villegas).

Este mensaje se trata de Marcos Macias Valadez y María Ruiz de Esparza

Por un indice que publicó Claudia Casillas encontré a una dispensa de
cuarto grado de consanguinidad de Alejandro Macias Valadez Gutiérrez
originario del Río de Santa María y vecino de Aguascalientes en el Sauz de
los Macias con Leonor López Infante y Valdés originario y vecina de la
Mololoa. Dice que Alejandro es hijo de Juan Macias Valades y de María
Gutiérrez y que Juan es hijo de María Ruiz y que Maria Ruiz es hija de
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Bautizaron a Alejandro el 10 de Abril de
1713 en San Juan de los Lagos. Bautizaron a Juan el 20 de abril 1681 en
Lagos de Moreno y murió el 1 de septiembre de 1740 en Aguas. No he
encontrado mas datos documentados sobre la linea directa de Alejandro hasta
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Según la dispensa fue hermana de Leonor
González de Rubalcava que sabemos por otras comunicaciones que hemos tenido
que fue hija Juan González de Rubalcava y de María López y que Leonor tuvo
a Inés Pérez que casó con Basilio Valdés y tuvieron a Inés Baldés. Se que
Inés casó con Nicolás López de Aguirre e Infante de Villegas quienes
tuvieron a Leonor López Infante y Valdés, la pretensa.
La dispensa se encuentra en
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-63357-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

Yo suponía que la antesmencionada Maria Ruiz iba a ser la que casó con
Marcos Macias Valadez pero esos datos no van de acuerdo con los que se
encuentran en Retoños de España según la página
http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html que dice que
la esposa de Marcos Macias Valadez y de Orán y Vega fue hija de Nicolás de
Ulloa y de doña María Ruiz de Esparza. Según varios mensajes en NR esta
María Ruiz de Esparza fue hija de Lope Ruiz de Esparza y de Francisca Gabay
de Moctezuma.

¿Si el Juan Macias Valadez y Ruiz de la dispensa no fue hijo de Marcos
Macias Valadez entonces de quien podría haber sido hijo? ¿Que fuente haya
usado Mariano González Leal para tener a los padres de Maria Ruiz de
Esparza?

Daniel, has mencionado que María Ruiz de Esparza la hija Nicolás Márquez de
Ulloa y Maria Ruiz de Esparza casó con alguien que no fue Marcos Macias
Valadez. ¿Quien fue esa persona?

Saludos
Armando

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:46 PM, wrote:

> Estimado compañeros:
>
> Alguien tiene mayor información sobre las siguientes personas? Todos
> casados en Aguascalientes y el último deberia ser en Lagos de Moreno o
> Teocaltiche.
>
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás de Castro el 14 de mayo de 1673
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Marcos Macías Valadés ca. 1670
>
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás González el 22 de diciembre de
> 1659
>
> Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, mi décimo bisabuelo casado Leonor González de
> Ruvalcaba hija de Juan González de Ruvalcaba y Leonor Franco de Paredes. No
> sé si este Ornelas es pariente de la misma familia quien se asentó en Los
> Altos, pero solo he visto algunas personas con el apellido Pérez de
> Ornelas, no sé su origen.
>
> Gracias,
> Daniel Méndez Camino
>

Daniel,
Yo tengo a Marcos Macias Valades, hijo de Alonso Macias Valades y de Ursula Alvarez casado con Maria Ruiz Esparza (de Ulloa) hija de Nicolas de Ulloa y Maria Ruiz Esparza. Sin embargo, por alguna razon no encuentro la fuente de estos datos.

Jaime Alvarado

For the past 5 years I have concentrated on my mother's Chavez line of the founding fathers of New Mexico. Now I am back to trying to close loose ends in my father's Romo  de Vivar line. He descends from Salvador Ygnacio Romo de Vivar and wife, Francissca Angela Escalante, Bacanuche, Sonora, Mexico. One historian Mexicano says Salvador's daughter, Maria Rita de los Dolores Romo de Vivar y Escalante, descended from Jose Romo de Vivar, the founder of Bacanuche (and also was son of Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel). Other Researchers say this Jose Romo de Vivar went to Sinaloa and Sonora and nothing more is mentioned. I am wanting to close the gap between Jose Romo de Vivar and Salvador Ygnacio. Jose had sons Geronimo, Simon, and Jose Gabriel. And Geronimo had a son, Jose Antonio who married Maria Manuela de Anza, daughter of Juan Bautista de Anza and Maria Valenzuela. During Pancho Villa's run along the Mexican-USA Border in the 19 teens his men destroyed the town of Bacanuche, Ygnacio Pesqueira's hacienda, the church and many other structures, along with important papers and history. Gaps in church records that were destroyed may have had a marriage history on my ancestors who descended from Jose Romo de Vivar and Juana de Solis his wife. Any clues or thoughts are welcome. 

We can now add George P. Bush to the Ruiz De Esparza family tree. George P. Bush is the son of Governor Jeb (John Ellis) Bush and Columba Garnica Gallo, paternal grandparents are George H. W. Bush and Barbara Pierce. George P. Bush’s maternal grandparents are José María Garnica and Josefina Gallo. The Ruiz De Esparza ancestral line is through his Gallo ancestry. I descend from Onofre Perez Gallo, brother of his Gallo ancestor.

Through George P. Bush’s mother’s ancestry, he is a 13th cousin many times removed from George Washington, the first President of the United States of America. His paternal grandfather and uncle who were Presidents of the United State are also related to George Washington through their Bush Ancestry.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000

I only have Lope Ruiz de Esparza so far but my people didn't stay in the area long. They seem to have wandered into Durango and settled but I have so many dead ends so here's to hoping I find a link to Diego Romo de Vivar either from Durango (mom) or Guanajuato (dad).

Can you explain what "sosa lines" are and where I would find them?

Thanks!

Three lines of descent from the Basque “Lope Ruiz De Esparza”and “Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma” to “Jessica Alba”

First line:

5.) Lope Ruiz De Esparza(el menor) (1569- 1651) [Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma]. Parent of:
6.) Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza (1601-?) [Cap.Luis Tiscareño De Molina] Parents of
7.) Francisca Tiscareño De Molina (1625 - 1660) [Jose Delgado Diaz]. Parents of:
8.) Luis Delgado Tiscareño (1648 - 1736) [Teresa Lopez Alvarado] Parents of:
9.) Jose Manuel Delgado (1684 - ?) [Margarita Macias Valadez] Parents of:
10.) Ma. Guadalupe Delgado (1722-1778) [Juan Antonio Pedroza]. Parents of:
11.) Jose Marcos Pedroza(1744 - ?) [Juana Ignacia Vasquez]. Parents of
12.) Maria Eufrasia Pedroza (1774 - ? ) [Jose Francisco Esparza]. Parents of:
13.) Jose Francisco Esparza (1769 - ?) [Maria Eufrasia Pedroza]. Parents of:
14.) Ma. Josefa Gpe. Remigia de la Trinidad Esparza (1792 - ) [José Ignacio Mosqueira] Parents of:
15.) Genoveva Mosquera (1834 -1917) [Urbano Rangel] Parents of:
16.) Jose Ignacio Rangel (1875-1945) [Juana Cisneros]. Parents of:
17.) Maria Refugia Rangel (1892-1991) [José Sánchez]. Parents of:
18.) Francisca Sánchez (1957-1967) [Catalino Alba]. Parents of:
19.) Jose Alba Sanchez (1930-2010) [Isabel Martinez ] [ Parents of:
20.) Mark David Alba (b. 1960) [Catherine Louisa Jensen]. Parents of:
21.) Jessica Alba “the actress” (b. 1981) [Cash Warren]

Second line:

5.) Lope Ruiz De Esparza (el menor) (1569- 1651) [Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma]. Parent of:
6.) Salvador Ruiz De Esparza (1598-1680) [Maria Vielma] Parents of
7.) Andres Ruiz De Esparza (1620 - ?) [Catalina De la Fuente]. Parents of:
8.) Tomas Ruiz De Esparza (ca.1660 - ?) [Maria Montañés de Carillo] Parents of:
9.) Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza (ca.1681 -?) [Gertrudis Macias]. Parents of:
10.) Antonio Paulin Esparza (ca.1717 - ?) [Constanza Pedroza]. Parents of
11.) Pedro Segundo Esparza (1738 - ? ) [Maria Dolores Medina]. Parents of:
12.) Jose Francisco Esparza (1769 - ?) [Maria Eufrasia Pedroza]. Parents of:
13.) Ma. Josefa Gpe. Remigia de la Trinidad Pedroza (1792 - ) [José Ignacio Mosqueira] Parents of:
14.) Genoveva Mosquera (1834 -1917) [Urbano Rangel] Parents of:
15.) Jose Ignacio Rangel (1875-1945) [Juana Cisneros]. Parents of:
16.) Maria Refugia Rangel (1892-1991) [José Sánchez]. Parents of:
17.) Francisca Sánchez (1957-1967) [Catalino Alba]. Parents of:
18.) Jose Alba Sanchez (1930-2010) [Isabel Martinez ] [ Parents of:
19.) Mark David Alba (b. 1960) [Catherine Louisa Jensen]. Parents of:
20.) Jessica Alba “the actress” (b. 1981) [Cash Warren]

Third line:

5.) Lope Ruiz De Esparza(el menor) (1569- 1651) [Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma]. Parent of:
6.) Jacinto Ruiz De Esparza (1605-1679) [Leonor Lopez de Elizalde] Parents of
7.) Luisa Ruiz De Esparza (1648 - ?) [Pedro Macias Valadez]. Parents of:
8.) Margarita Macias Valadez (1686 - 1741) [Jose Manuel Delgado] Parents of:
9.) Ma. Guadalupe Delgado (1722-1778) [Juan Antonio Pedroza]. Parents of:
10.) Jose Marcos Pedroza(1744 - ?) [Juana Ignacia Vasquez]. Parents of
11.) Maria Eufrasia Pedroza (1774 - ? ) [Jose Francisco Esparza]. Parents of:
12.) Jose Francisco Esparza (1769 - ?) [Maria Eufrasia Pedroza]. Parents of:
13.) Ma. Josefa Gpe. Remigia de la Trinidad Esparza (1792 - ) [José Ignacio Mosqueira] Parents of:
14.) Genoveva Mosquera (1834 -1917) [Urbano Rangel] Parents of:
15.) Jose Ignacio Rangel (1875-1945) [Juana Cisneros]. Parents of:
16.) Maria Refugia Rangel (1892-1991) [José Sánchez]. Parents of:
17.) Francisca Sánchez (1957-1967) [Catalino Alba]. Parents of:
18.) Jose Alba Sanchez (1930-2010) [Isabel Martinez ] [ Parents of:
19.) Mark David Alba (b. 1960) [Catherine Louisa Jensen]. Parents of:
20.) Jessica Alba “the actress” (b. 1981) [Cash Warren]

Rick A. Ricci
Book mygenes2000

I have Esparza roots.
Does anyone Habra Gine de Carrion?

Hello Jose,

I too descend Repeatedly from the Ruiz De Esparza and Romo de Vivar, so yes, we are “primos.” My maternal grandfather is a third cousin of Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez through both the Gonzalez and Romo lines.

Super Bowl champion Coach Tom Flores Is also a primo.
Rick A. Ricci

Hello Christy,

 You may also look for your dad’s records with the name Buenaventura Gomez.

The surname Martinez of your family was originally Martin del Campo.   Over the generations it was shortened to Martin.  It only recently was changed to Martinez.  Celestino was baptized Celestino Martin Barajas.   And his father’s surname is Martin.   His father is only given the Martinez surname in the death record of Celestino.
 

There are two Demetria with fathers of the same name but the mothers have different names.   The fathers are not the same person as they have different ancestries.
Your Demetria’s mother is named as Maria Genaro Gutierrez. This is your ancestral line   Cañadas is very close to Valle de Guadalupe  

A Ventura Gomez shows up as a three year old in a census in Valle de Guadalupe     His parents are not named in the census which could  indicate that he was either  a visitor during the census, or being raised by friends or family in Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco.

Some of the records from people from el Salto are in , besides Cañadas, Valle de Guadlupe, Tepatitlan, or Jalostotitlan.

Your grandfather’s ancestry can be seen found at https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/GR6V-QPX

Good luck,

Rick A. Ricci

Hi Alejandra, Welcome to the Nuestrosranchos group. I have nosed around at a lot of familysearch records over the past 5 years or so, particularly Padrons and Dispensas. In the 1824 Ojocaliente (Zacatecas) padron (census), in the town of San Diego, there is a Narciso Gomes and Maria Candelaria Lopes listed in this padron, along with Rosalio Gomes, age 4 in 1824. Narciso is age 22 (born circa 1802), and Candelaria is age 25 (born circa 1799). Narciso Gomes is living in the household of Pedro Gomes (age 60), and Maria Yrinea Alvarado (age 55). Also living in this household is Alejo Gomes (age 13), and Maria Josefa Gomes (age 19), who are both likely siblings of Narciso. Alejo Gomes is later listed in a marriage record as Alejo Araujo, so I believe this is your family, and likely parents of your Narciso are Pedro Araujo (Gomes) and Maria Yrinea Alvarado.

The padron is located at:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9KJ-TZT7?i=333&cat=23…
Image 334 of 784.

Alejo Gomes is found later in a 23 April 1829 Ojocaliente (Zacatecas) informational marriage record as Alejo Aranjo, son of Pedro Aranjo and Yrinea Albarado. His birth year is listed 1811, which matches the Padron from 1824. This informational marriage record is located at.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Y193-JL?i=557
Image 558 of 639.

Hope this might help you some.

Regards,
Lee

I can’t help you the Lizalde line, but there is something that seems off when you look at the marriages of their daughter Catarina.

Is listing Catarine de Lizarde as padres no conocidos in her second marriage an intentional or unintentional error?

Is there a dispensa in the second marriage between Catarina de Lizarde and Jose de Carbajal? 

23 Jan 1718

Catarina de Lizarde hija legitima de Manuel de Lizarde y de Maria de Ruvalcaba.

Blas Riuz Nunez hijo legitimo de Diego Ruiz Nunez y de Ana Gonzalez.

13 Feb 1736

Catarina de Lizarde hija de padres no conocidos viuda de Blas Ruiz.

Jose de Carbajal hijo de padres no conocidos.

Wesley, 

I have the same brick wall with regard to Manuel Lizalde, and also have found nothing naming his father. The Manuel Lizalde family ties back to my Zermeno family, hence my interest.

A Juan Lopez de Lizalde married Leonor Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza on 25 Jan 1585 in Lagos de Moreno. 

This family branch appears to be the same noted in a 1791 land record which discusses an even older 26 August 1602 land record in an area close to present day  "Las Animas" (Current day Yahaulica jurisdiction). 

This Juan Lopez de Lizalde was noted as owning caballerias in the area, and was noted as a Calvary soldier. It is highly likely to be the same Juan Lopez de Lizalde that married in 1585.  Either way, the land record places the Lizalde family in Yahaulica very early on, and presents a good likelihood Manuel Lizalde descends in some manner through this family.

Link: 1791 Land Record Link

Lee

There is a Catalina Carvajal (Garbaxal) Rivera (Ribera) from that time frame which may be worth investigating. She is the daughter of Francisco Carvajal and Cathalina Ribera

Birth Name
Catalina Carvajal Rivera
Rick A. Ricci

Pleito de Rodrigo Hidalgo, de Toro (Zamora) 
Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Antonio de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Diego Arias de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) Sobre Rodrigo Hidalgo, administrador durante 24 años de Guiomar de Sotelo y su marido Francisco Martínez de Tordesillas, contra el capitán Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo y Antonio de Sotelo, como testamentarios de la dicha Guiomar y contra Diego Arias de Sotelo como donatario de sus bienes para que le paguen los 120.000 maravedíes que la dicha Guiomar le dejó mandados en un codicilo antes de morir por los servicios prestados en esos 24 años.

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

From primary sources found on PARES, I had originally posted the following information, but I found another source that gives different information that you can see in the corrections on the bottom ancestral line.

original post:
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2)- Payo Sotelo and Ysabel Ruiz

3)-Diego Sotelo “el Viejo” and Ynes Sedeño had many children. The two named in this document are:

3.1)-Luis Sotelo de Rivera
3,2)-Payo Sotelo Nar’uaez (Narváez)

and 
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2.)-Juan Sotelo. Who Is the father of

Payo Sotelo de Ribera, Tomas Sotelo de Ribera, and Eugenio Sotelo de Ribera

=====///////////////////////

New post
Corrections :  different wife for #1 (Francisca Soto), Payo senior and Francisca are grandparents of Juan Sotelo. Payo Sotelo (junior) who is married to Ysabel Ruiz are the parents of Juan Sotelo.

so what I gather from this is that Francisca Soto is a first wife, and that Juana Herrera is the last wife.  Here is a document testamento de Payo Rodriguez de Sotelo and Juana Herrera: Testamento de Payo Rodriguez Sotelo y Juana de Herrera. 

This is what the Ejecutario de Villadolid dated 2/May/1587 presented by Juan Sotelo says:

1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Francisca Soto.

2)- Payo Sotelo and Ysabel Ruiz

3)- Juan Sotelo and Catalina de San Miguel

          3.1)- Payo Sotelo de Ribera, 

          3.2)- Tomas Sotelo de Ribera, and 

          3.3)- Eugenio Sotelo de Ribera

So there are two primary sources naming different mothers for Payo Sotelo married to Ysabel Ruiz,  and Juan Sotelo is the brother of Diego Sotelo “el Viejo” that is married to Ynes Sedeño. The brothers Payo, Tomas , and Eugenio are repeatedly listed in this order so I am assuming that they are listed by age.

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

From a document that I read, the Sotelo surname came about because they came from the Villa de Sotelo. The document implies that before arriving at San Miguel de Ribera that the “Sotelo” were known by a different surname. I was wondering if they meant a name other than “Arias.” This change in surname was common in those times. While searching to see if I could find the other surname I came across some more Reynosos in San Miguel de Rivera.

Diego Arias de Yerba married to Isabel Reynoso sister of Antonio Reynoso

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/3997817?nm

Gracias por tu trabajo Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

Dear Erik,

I found another Diego Sotelo el viejo in San Miguel de Ribera alive about the same time as the Diego Sotelo that is the ancestor of our Diego Arias de Sotelo. He is listed as having a father with a different name than the one that you found.

Rick A. Ricci

Dear Erik,

You gave me enough information to send me digging for Antonio Sotelo’s parents. I believe I have found them in a document stating the hidalguia of a couple of cousins of Antonio Sotelo. I won’t post the information here as I want to keeep up the suspense for your book. And I may be wrong, and this is another branch of the Sotelo family. The document that I found doesn’t mention Antonio, but with what I already know about the family, plus what the information you provided, I believe that I have filled in a couple of blanks. I will download all of the document pages and send them to you later this week.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Estimado Erik,

I will be sending you some information that may help you in your research. I have some information on the ancestry of Lope Sotelo’s wife Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera. I put this ancestry together by compiling from different secondary sources.

1) Gonzalo López de Ribera m. Teresa Vasquez de Meira
2) Lope López de Ribera m. Maria Afan
3) Ruy (Rodrigo) López de Ribera m. Inés de Sotomayor
4) Per Afán de Ribera “el Viejo” m. Maria Rodríguez Marino (first wife)
5) Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera m. Lope de Sotelo
6) Pero (Pedro) Sotelo m. Inés Cisneros
7) Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros

=====================================================================

1)King Alfonso IX de Leon and Aldonza Martins De Silva
2)Rodrigo Alfonso de Leon, Señor de Aliger m. Ines Rodríguez de Cabrera
3)Sancha Alfonso de Leon m. Lope Sánchez Señor de Valenzuela y Jodar
4)Sancha Martinez de Jodar, conquistador del Castillo de Jodar m. Berenguela de Cabrera
5)Juana Rodríguez de Jodar m. Garcia Mendez de Sotomayor
6) Ruy Mendez de Sotomayor
7)Inés de Sotomayor m. Ruy (Rodrigo) López de Ribera
8) Per Afán de Ribera “el Viejo” m. Maria Rodríguez Marino (first wife)
9)Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera m. Lope de Sotelo.
10) Pero (Pedro) Sotelo m. Inés Cisneros
11)Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros

You may also want to check out Antonio de Sotelo y Cisneros’s “testamentos”.
1) Copia del testamento Abierto de Don Antonio Sotelo y Cisneros. Arch. De la Mitra., Leg 161, C-1, doc 1.v.
2) Copia del testamento Cerrado de Don Antonio Sotelo y Cisneros. A.H.P. Leg 499, año 1548,fol. 307

Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera es prima tercera de Leonor la esposa de Enrique Guzman, duque de Medina Sidonia

Muchas Gracias Erik
Rick A. Ricci

Dear Leon de Tejada

I am so happy you are writing a book on the family of Diego Arias de Sotelo! Thanks for sharing new info here in NR!
The thread which Rick has provided (in this thread) will show you what else has turned up in our (NR members) searches/research, there could be references and links there which you might find helpful.

I look forward to reading your book!

Best Regards
Denise Fastrup

El 16 de abril de 1550, Guiomar de Herrezuelo, viuda de Andrés de Sotelo, capitán, vecina de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora), litiga contra el concejo de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) y el fiscal de Real Chancillería Ibargüen, sobre exención de impuestos

Estimado Erik,

What a week! This same week that you post Diego Aria de Sotelo’s, I found out that I descend from Pedro Arais Dávila. In a letter from Diego’s father to his son, Pedro Arias de Avila was mentioned. Ever since I learned of this letter I unsuccessfully searched for the Sotelo Cisnero family connection. Now that we now that his paternal grandfather has a different ancestry, it is possible that we may finally find the family connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila.

A couple of years ago a group of us mentioned in a thread that we had doubt regarding Antonio’s ancestry so it is great that you finally found proof of his true ancestry.

Here is the location of the thread where we discussed his ancestry, his connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila, and the Arias Sotelo Cisneros family:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24399?page=2

Thanks again Erik for sharing your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

Yo he estudiado muchos de los primos de los Sotelo, acumulando historias de esta familia que tuvo un gran impacto en el pleito religioso de ese tiempo sobre las enseñansas de Erasmus sobre Cristianismo. Es terible como la inquisición atacó muchos miembros de esta familia no mas por juntarse para estudiar la Biblia y darle gracias a dios. Fueron acusados de estudiar la Biblia demasiado y de juntarse a darle gracias a Dios y seguir las enseñanzas de Erasmus. Espero con mucha anticipación y alegría los resultados de tu investigación.

Como escribiste una vez, hacemos buen mancuerna en nuestros estudios.

Muchísimas Gracias Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.   Her  father is identified as Diego Hurtado de Mendoza from a document not in my possession. What I know about this Diego is his parents and siblings, was single when he came over, who he came over with, and who he worked for. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know how he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America.  I have not seen the document that states that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is her father, and that is why I searched everywhere for her ancestry.   What I have put together is Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s ancestry.  I would like to read this document to see if I can find more information.

I also put together an ancestry of Isabel De Mendoza Velasco who also fits the timetable for our Isabel Mendoza.  This Isabel Mendoza Velasco is mistakenly listed in genealogical tables as becoming a nun when her aunt with the same name is the one who became a nun. But this Isabel de Mendoza Velasco does not have native Indian ancestry so this makes her unlikely to be the Isabel Mendoza married to Toribio Hernandez de Arellano. 

More research still needs to be done before I publish my findings on this family. 

Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is related to many of the other Conquistadors. 

Rick A. Ricci

There is no mention of the name of Isabel Mendoza de Hurtado’s mother.  I believe that she may have been a native.   Her father is mentioned coming over from Spain and his duties, but there is no mention of a wife.   

Rick A. Ricci
 

Mr. Ricci there is a Hurtado de Mendoza on wikipedia married to a De Luna
and his father Diego Hurtado de Medoza was also married to a De Luna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8D%C3%B1igo_L%C3%B3pez_de_Mendoza_y_L…

Danny C. Alonso

I have only seen the term 'criollo' used to mean place of birth or origin and not used to signify caste. Of the records that include the term 'criollo' for a person it will also include the person's caste (español, mestizo, indio, mulato.

Saludos,

Austin Pérez

"...mestiso soltero i criollo de esta villa..."

In this instance, as well as in the other records on the same page, the writer used the word criollo to mean originario (autóctono o nativo de esta villa de Lagos), and not in the usual sense related to the castas colonial that one typically sees in these records.

Joseph, thank you for sharing this incredible story, and thank you, all: Joseph, Lee, Rosalinda, Wesley and Arturo for the work and time you placed into this site. I'm happy to contribute monetarily once a means to do so is established.

Best regards,

Travis

Hello Eric,

I too have wondered about the document that people have said exists that identifies Diego Hurtado de Mendoza as a relative of the Viceroy and father of Isabel Mendoza. This Diego Hurtado de Mendoza came over as criado of the Bishop. He was single when he came over, and the question remains on whether he traveled back and forth from Spain, or if he just stayed in Mexico after his first trip.  I believe he made more than one trip as the date of birth of Isabel is given by most genealogists as mid to late 1530’s.  If he really is her father then he would have had to come to Mexico earlier than his trip to Mexico in the early 1550’s. Because this Diego is connected to the viceroy, I believe that he worked first for him and that is why he most likely made more than one trip between Spain and Mexico. If he traveled  back and forth across the Atlantic Ocean as representative of the Viceroy and the Bishop, then that could possibly explain why there is not much written about his life in Mexico.

And this Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is a cousin of the Ruy Diaz de Mendoza that is an ancestor of many people in New Mexico. Another cousin traveled to South America and left many descendants there. While working on both separate projects on identifying their ancestry the projects converged, with me first discovering Ruy’s true parents and grandparents, and then discovering that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is in that close family tree.

The actual details of their ancestry will take pages.   Please let me know if you can get access to that document, as I have asked for that specific document for over two decades, but no one has given details on where to find it.

The evidence that I have is only for Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s ancestry, the Diego that was a criado of the bishop.   I don’t have the document that states that he is Isabel’s father so I can’t study it to find out what it actually says.  So until we can get a hold of that document we are left wondering.

Merry Christmas,

Rick A. Ricci

Source: my book, Mygenes2000

I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.  The Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that was identified as her father came over from Spain.   Diego was single when he came over and little is known about him except who he came over with and who he worked for.  I don’t have proof that he was her father, but he is the Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that a document said was her father. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know Diego’s ancestry and he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America. It is clear that Isabel’s mother was native or a mestiza.  I do not know the identity of Isabel’s mother.

Rick A. Ricci

Thank you Erik for sharing this interesting theory. 

Hoping to hear more on this research. I have also been following with great interest your recent thread on Toribio Hernández de Arellano and the possible connection to the Hernández family from Salamanca. No doubt that further evidence will emerge to confirm this association. 

Best regards, 

Tristán Díaz de León

Sometime ago I read your findings on Diego Delgado, his wife and family in law. At the time I didn`t realize that Juan Diaz, his father in law happened to be one of the founders of Celaya on January 1st, 1571 (There are no other mentions to a Juan Diaz in the area until at least 1611, and this one was married to a certain Agustina Rodriguez, mestiza and he himself apparently a mestizo, and they both lived in the village of San Miguel in 1614). He and the other founders were granted land at the beginning of 1574 and they made the commitment to keep them for, at least, ten years, but by 1582 he had sold his. This might have happened probably because he was a master shoemaker and not a labrador, and it can also be the reason why he moved to San Luis Potosí.

The founder of Celaya were 30, and they had to be, and actually were, heads of family, i.e. at least married, and in most cases had children. This means that it was highly probable that they were all above 20 years of age. That would most probably made him born on or before 1550, and that's why I doubt some of the facts ttributed to him by RMB, because by the dates he's mentioned by RMB the whole of Celaya's founders on whom there is information were dead (El 6 de febrero de 1618 ante la fe de Juan de Trujillo, escribano real, junto con Pedro Vallejo, maestro zapatero fungió como testigo en la escritura pública de compra-venta de un esclavo negro que vendió Francisco Rodríguez Serrano, maestro de zapatero a Gerónimo de León, panadero. En diciembre de 1623, su nombre aparece, entre otros, como deudor a la sucesión testamentaria de Juan de Elorza. El 27 de octubre de 1655, se constituyó como fiador por la cantidad de 500 pesos en favor de Juan Enríquez, en quien se remató por el Muy Ilustre Ayuntamiento el oficio de depositario general. El 26 de marzo de 1662 junto con su hermano otorgó escritura de reconocimiento de adeudo por la cantidad de 2000 pesos a favor del general León de Alza, representado por Francisco de Alcorta.). He could't be the son of Jerónimo Díaz and nephew of Francisco Román.I'm sure that RMB confiused Diwego Delgado's father in law with another Juan Diaz, which happens to be a very common name.

Juan Díaz appears as a cofrade in the "Testimonio de las constituciones de la archicofradía del Santísimo Sacramento, fundada en la iglesia parrochial del señor San Francisco de esta ciudad de Celaya el año de 1574", kept at the Archives of the Franciscan Province of Michoacan.  In the same archives apperas the following: "Mencía Meléndez, viuda de Bartolomé de Losa, dice, en una cláusula de su testamento, que pasó ante Pedro Téllez de Fonseca a los 30 de enero de 1582, que dicho su marido dejó, por su fin y muerte, cinco caballerías de tierra, las dos y media que compró de Juan Díaz y las otras dos y media que le fueron dadas por su vecindad, con cuatro días de agua, con mas caballería y media de tierra que se compró de Miguel Sánchez y se metió en la dicha hacienda." as well as "… es linde con tierras de Gonzalo Díaz e con tierras de su madre del dicho Pedro Meléndez, que la dicha media caballería de tierras es dentro de las tierras de Alejos de Losa, hermano del dicho Pedro Meléndez, y siendo dentro de las tierras del dicho Alejos de Losa, prestando consentimiento para ello, están sin perjuicio y se le puede hacer la merced que pide por estar la dicha merced a otro de esta villa, que es a Juan Díaz, de quien la recibió y compró Bartolomé de Losa, padre del dicho Pedro Meléndez, ..."

I would very much appreciatte if you could tell the me links to Francisca Gallegos testament.

Best regards,

Héctor

Great Job Manny! I love your posts!

I am sorry I cannot answer your question, but I do want to give you information (In case you don't have it) about one of your Delgado ancestors.

I came across this while researching my own Delgado line from Tlaltenango and Atolinga, Zacatecas.

Juan Delgado is in the following book "Spain's Patriots of Northwestern New Spain" the link follows:

http://www.somosprimos.com/hough/nwus.pdf

He is listed among the Spanish Patriots who fought against England during the American Revolution. He is listed alphabetically on page 48 on the pdf document. He was son of Bartolome Delgado, who was son of Francisco Delgado, who was son of Diego Delgado as you previously posted.

Other helpful links.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5F8-DQV
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5FZ-KNN

I hope this helps your research.

Ruben

Can you cite a primary source?   A few years ago a genealogist that lived in Colorado did much research on this line, and she could not find any primary sources.  

I have seen that many people take it as a given, but I still would like to see a primary source.   

Hello Rick

I understand your skepticism. My friend looked into my genealogy, and got back to me a few days later saying I was related to Manuel the 1st saying he needs to take a knee and kiss the ring next time he see's me stuff like that.  I thought he was pulling my leg and decided to look into it and prove him wrong.

The more I looked into it the more it made sense. King Manuals 1 son  Luís Duke of Beja of Portugal never married Violante Gomez or at least there is no record of it. She was labelled a Converso from Jewish to Christianity after the Christian Reconquista  of Spain. as a result their children were considered illegitimate. The church was reluctant to marry a Converso or baptize a converso child. The name "Gomez de Portugal". comes from Violante Gomez, and the de Portugal part comes from Luis Duke of Beja of Portugal. 

This is link to one of the sources I found.

  https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/mcdonald-family-site/I509485.php

Thanks

David M.

I have never seen the evidence as to who his father is.   Though I did see that he descended from a Jewish woman.  The thing is that when I see the posts that say his father was the king they list someone that wasn’t his mother. 

Rick A. Ricci

After reading your post I could not see a link to my paternal Munoz line. 

One name that I noticed was Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal. 

One of the founders of Lagos De Moreno was man named Juan Gomes de Portugal or Capitan Juan Gomes de Portugal. He was married to Cathalina LOPEZ de la MAdrid de la Cuadra y de NAVA Lopez.

They got married about 1558 at Spain.

Juan was the illegitimate grandson of Manuel1st king of Portugal. Juan had up to 17 children. 

When I see the name ending with Gomez de Portugal in the Lagos de Moreno area I assume there is a link to Capitan Juan and his link to royalty.

Good luck on your hunt!

David M.

Dear Manny, 

Thank you for these insights !

I am curious about how you were able to confirm that Francisca de Ortega was indeed the daughter of Luis Maldonado (himself the son of Luis Maldonado and Inés Sánchez de Ortega). Based on your previous comments on the topic (above), I had understood that we were still uncertain which Luis Maldonado was her father. How did you arrive to this conclusion ?

Kind regards

Tristán Díaz de León

Dear all,

I have identified a new document regarding Juan Díaz de León which is dated 1603 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SSZT?view=fullText&keywords=Juan%20D%C3%ADaz%20de%20Le%C3%B3n&lang=fr&groupId=

I'm afraid I can't read it but it seems that it concerns Francisca de Ortega as well. Could someone try to understand the topic of this document ? 

Tristan Díaz de León

I am also related to Juan Diaz de Leon and his daughter Maria Ortega. I've been doing work in San Luis Potosi and Guanajuato. I've noticed the city of San Luis Potosi in San Luis Potosi has been people from Sierra de Pinos.

Great work.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Hola primos!

Amazing the amount of work all of you have put in and I have learned so much as far as the lineage but I would like to learn more as to who these people are. I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo" and his son "El Mozo", and then  Andres DDL. I was wondering if anyone had information as to what their Juan's role was in regards to Pinos? I know his name is on the map in 1603 and owned some mines, but is there any other info anyone else can share? 

Thank you so much!

Rosendo Gutierrez-Diaz

Hello Manny,

When I was a kid, family members would say that Vikki Carr was a distant cousin of ours. I did her family tree and found that she is repeatedlyrelated to my family as she has ancestors from all over Los Altos de Jalisco. I wanted to let you know that she also descends from Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carillo.

Vikki Carr was her stage name. Part of her father’s ancestral family was mainly from Los Altos de Jalisco, and the other part was mainly from the state of New Mexico. She is also is related to coach Tom Flores through her Altos de Jalisco ancestral roots and is related to quarterback Jim Plunkett through her New Mexico ancestral roots.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello everyone,

I have a small information that could be useful in the origins of Diaz de Leon family. As we all know now Juan Diaz de Leon, El viejo, was from the city of Ayamonte. While searching for his license to New Spain, i found a document called "Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Isabel de León, criada del licenciado Alonso de Villalba, natural de Ayamonte, hija de Francisco Hernández Cataño e Isabel Díaz de León, a Charcas." The document is dated 1603 which is the same year as when Juan Diaz de Leon was registered in Pinos's map. I think this might be a lead on Juan Diaz de Leon's origins.

Tristan Diaz de Leon

Puedo decir que el año de su nacimiento esta alrededor de 1591 según su testamento fechado el 25 de agosto de 1655 en la ciudad de San Luis Potosí, dejo el siguiente fuente y link para su valoración:

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHWT?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 55 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6YR?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 56 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6KV?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 57 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

Saludos Familia descendiente de Díaz de León.

Atte. Jean H. Tavera 12va. Generación Descendiente de Juan Díaz de León.

Hello, Manny.

Glad to see your interest in San Luis Potosi where I was surprised to find several of my lines (Galvan, de la Cerda, Diaz Infante, Montanez and Marquez to name a few). Here's a link to a research paper that may help you. It covers SLP testaments from 1642 to 1671. It's a summary report and I believe only those persons who died are named. There's a Diaz de Leon. Don't know if he is your line.

From time to time I will add files to my Dropbox GENEALOGY folder. It will be a mishmash of drafts, finished papers, Family Group Sheets, handwritten notes and extractions and just stuff that may help others.

Mary Lou

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Manny,

This is great work. Juan Diaz de Leon is my ancestor too. I wish I knew something to add, but I dont. I was curious though about the witnesses and other property owners in 1604, Diego Camacho and Juliana de Sotomayor and if you think they're related to the Martin Camacho/Martn de Sotomayor family.

Danny C. Alonso

Obispo Francisco Antonio Lorenzana dejo una herencia a los hijos de una señora(ita).   Despues dijeron que se Los hijos de dejo a unos huerfanos.  Deacendientes de el se vinieron a Watsonville y Ventura California.  Yo conozco un descendiente que vive en Camarillo 

I have seen "MA" used for mostly Maria, but also used for Mariana when transferred probably by LDS.

I also found one that was transcribed to Maxima, the MA may have looked like an MX on that one, but it turned out to be Mariana with cross referencing.

Hello Emilie.

Bernardo and Juana got married by church in "La Villa de Santa Rosalia" on Jan 09 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-DCD

Bernardo (20). Parents: Juan J. Carmona and Manuela Reyes.

Juana (17). Parents: Anastasio Ocon and Ricarda Burrola.

Anastasio and Ricarda got married in the same place on Jan 13 1862:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-HD4

Anastasio (20). Parents: Pedro Ocon and Placida Muñoz.

Ricarda (16). Parents: Salome Burrola and Mauricia Morales.

Is there a link to the document you are citing you could provide? I'll gladly help with the names of Bernardo's grandparents.