San Diego De Alejandria

Andres Fonseca and Petra Rodrigues had several children born in San Diego De Alejandria between 1819 and 1831 and maybe earlier although those records are missing.

family search website problems

Anyone else having problems with loading images from Family Search? Have they changes their website setup or something?

Denise

Comments

Comment

The website looks OK again...I am not sure what happened - a technical issue of some sort. Denise

Comment

Denise,

I am not sure what they did exactly, but about 6 months ago, they changed (improved, they say) the structure of their database rendering. So, any link I saved as part of a source citation from that time period or before is not available (and not obviously modifyable to the new address with a simply directory change). For the transcribed data for marriages, baptisms, 1930 Census, etc., I simply redo the search and recopy the web address to the new one when I come accross one of these records (the search routine itself has not changed). For images, if you have not saved the actual image, I suspect you may have to search it again and recopy the web address - I have been saving all of my scanned images locally to my hard drive, so I don't bother.

Jerome Stofleth

Comment

Thanks for the info! This past summer I systematically started doing notes in Word, (instead of handwritten in a spiral notebook) and of course I save both an image and the link. The Romo notes I filed here are just my raw notes with the images deleted...If only I had done it this from the beginning!

Regards,
Denise

My Trip To San José

Joseph, I wish you a safe and pleasant trip and hope and pray your brother
recovers quickly.  God Bless.

 Ann M.

Comments

Comment

Joseph,
Either day works for me, whatever day the majority of the other people are available to meet will be just fine. Just let me know the day and the time and I know the place already. Can't wait to meet up with you and with other members of Nuestros Ranchos.

Abrazos,
Alicia

________________________________
From: Joseph Puentes
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 4:37 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] My Trip To San José

I’ll be travelling to San José to visit my brother as he recovers from a
very serious illness. The critical part of his illness is past but he has a
long road ahead to full recovery.

If it works out I plan on having lunch with Alicia Carrillo in San José
sometime during the 2nd week of October maybe the 11th or 12th if she is
free on one of those dates. I will be taking her to lunch at a small Vegan
restaurant The Happy Bamboo (http://www.happybamboo.com/). Let me know if
anyone else would like to join us and I’ll try to firm up the date.

Note: this will not be a genealogy related event just lunch with a friend or
two.

Joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com

Comment

Joseph
Glad to hear your brother is on the way to recovery. I wish I were in San
Jose. I would love to join you and Alice. California is always on the
move!
Mickey

In a message dated 9/6/2012 6:37:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
makas@nc.rr.com writes:

I’ll be travelling to San José to visit my brother as he recovers from a
very serious illness. The critical part of his illness is past but he has a
long road ahead to full recovery.

If it works out I plan on having lunch with Alicia Carrillo in San José
sometime during the 2nd week of October maybe the 11th or 12th if she is
free on one of those dates. I will be taking her to lunch at a small Vegan
restaurant The Happy Bamboo (http://www.happybamboo.com/). Let me know if
anyone else would like to join us and I’ll try to firm up the date.

Note: this will not be a genealogy related event just lunch with a friend
or
two.

Joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Announce Mailing List

To post, send email to:
announce(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Help reading a record

I found a baptism record for my 6th great grandfather, Joseph Feliz Almaguer born 11 Dec 1711 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico, but can't make heads or tails of the writing.

Comments

Comment

Here is a transcription:
Joseph Feliz, español
En la Villa de los Lagos en onze dias del mes de Diziembre de setecientos y onze años Baptise y puse los oleos y chrisma a Joseph Feliz, español, hijo legitimo de Agustin Almag.. y de Franca [Francisca] ..mila Lopez, españoles y vecinos de esta villa. Fueron PP. [Padrinos] Manuel Lo(pez) y Maria Ximenez, españoles y vecinos de esta villa a quienes advertí de su parentesco y cognacion espiritual y lo firmé.
Ba. Miguel Gonzalez de los Barrios

The mother's middle name is probably Camila, as someone else suggested, though the small "ca" belongs to the abbreviation for Francisca.

Comment

This is a real challenge! All I could get was hijo lexitimo, and the first name of the first padrino mentioned: Manuel. Could the mother's name be Francisa (abbreviated?) Lopez and Manuel's last name also Lopez? Padrina Maria Ximenez?
Hope someone else will take a shot at this...

Regards,
Denise

Comment

IN THE VILLA IN LAGOS, 11 DECEMBER 1711 BAUTISE and put the holy oils and baptism TO JOSEPH FELIZ SPANISH legitimate Son AGUSTÍN ALMAGUER LOPEZ AND CAMILA FRANCISCA LÓPEZ, NEIGHBORS SAID BY VILLA SPONSORS MANUEL LOPEZ AND MARIA XIMENEZ NEIGHBORS WHO ARE WARNED THAT VILLA THE SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP AND THE SIGN

EN LA VILLA DE LAGOS EN 11 DE DICIEMBRE DE 1711 BAUTISE Y PUSE LOS SANTOS OLEOS Y BAUTISMO A JOSEPH FELIZ ESPAÑOL HIJO LEGITIMO DEAGUSTÍN ALMAGUER Y FRANCISCA CAMILA LÓPEZ VECINOS DE DICHA VILLA POR PADRINOS MANUEL LOPEZ Y MARIA XIMENEZ VECINOS DE DICHA VILLA A QUIENES ADVERTI DEL PARENTEZCO ESPIRITUAL Y LO FIRME

Javier González López Portillo

Comment

Hello Mr. Gonzalez

My Spanish is not that great, but the English translation of this part looks a little confusing...

VECINOS DE DICHA VILLA POR PADRINOS MANUEL LOPEZ Y MARIA XIMENEZ VECINOS DE DICHA VILLA A QUIENES ADVERTI DEL PARENTEZCO ESPIRITUAL Y LO FIRME

Could it be:
Residents of said villa, padrinos (are) Manuel Lopez and Maria Ximenez residents of said villa who were informed of their spiritual responsibility and (it is hereby) signed.

I hope that you or some else can help. There are no doubt many in the Forum with little or no Spanish skills...and we are ever grateful for help from those with Spanish as a first language, especially those with expertise in old Spanish...

Regards
Denise
ps if anyone needs help with Danish (unlikely in this Forum but you never know - some Danes did immigrate to the Americas in the late 1800's), feel free to contact me, Danish is my second language... :)

Comment

Thank you all for helping with this translation. I used the contact tab to send you each a personal thank you but I found out that messages through the contact tab don't always get through.

Comment

The parents seem to be Agustin Almaguer and Francisca ---mila Lopez,
padrinos Manuel Lopez y Maria de Munoz. I'm sure others can provide a more
complete translation. Good Luck.
Raquel Ruiz

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 9:42 AM, wrote:

> I found a baptism record for my 6th great grandfather, Joseph Feliz
> Almaguer born 11 Dec 1711 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico, but can't
> make heads or tails of the writing. If anyone would be willing to take a
> stab at it and let me know what they think I would really appreciate it. It
> is the first record on the upper left hand side of the page. The link is
> below.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-17799-65?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12506714
>
> Thank you all in advance.
>
> I apologize for my previous post with out a topic line
>

notes on Romo, Aguascalientes Sagrario and Aguascalientes Calvillo

I uploaded a doc with names of the Romos I came across while going through marriages of Aguascalientes (Sagrario) and baptisms of Calvillo (late 1700's).

Comments

Comment

Thanks Denise,
There are a lot of Romos in La Villita (near Jalpa) and I've been able to link most of them to Aguascalientes and Calvillo. Often the Romos married Velascos, Loera's, Lopez, Contreras, etc. I've also linked the Medinas of La Villita to Aguascalientes and Calvillo.

One family I'm looking to find is Jose Maria Romo and his wife Gertrudis Gonzalez, who were probably born around 1775. Jose Maria's father was Manuel Romo, who also had Roberta. I haven't established which Romo families were the first to move, so I appreciate you making the file available to all of us.

Arturo

Comment

Thanks Denise. I looked through your document on Romo in Sagrario and found a Romo connection to Guerra - not one I was looking for, but I also have a Romo/Guerra connection in that area that is clearly related - now I just have to do some sleuthing.

Nice job.

Jerry Stofleth

Comment

I wrote "no relation to Nadadores" because I am searching for Manuel Romo from Aguascalientes, who married in Nadadores, and whose descendents moved to San Buenaventura. His father was Don Raphael Romo and mother was Rafaela Aguilar. As far as I know, none of the Romos in these notes relate to Manuel.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

death records of Colotlan, Jalisco

I found this interesting death entry:

Comments

Comment

The wikipedia article on Marcos Escobedo has the following which seems to be relevent:

Marcos Marcelo Escobedo (1784–1833) was a military commander in the Mexican War of Independence. He later became Mayor of Colotlán, Jalisco.

Early life

Marcos Escobedo was born in 1784, son of José Joaquín Escobedo, presumably a descendant of the original Tlaxcaltec colonizers of the region.

Military career

In 1808, he held the title Second Lieutenant in the Spanish army and was governor of the Tlaxcala neighborhood. On November 1, 1808, he declared himself in favor of Mexico's independence from Spain, and along with a priest named Pablo José Calvillo and the indigenous garrisons of the region, put himself at the service of independence leader Miguel Hidalgo.

In January 1811, he and his troops participated in the Battle of the Bridge of Calderón. His troops suffered great losses in the battle and returned to Colotlán to face the troops of Francisco del Real, Juan Lozano, and Sebastián Gallegos, who had occupied the town's square in their absence. In the same month, they faced a battle in Las Canoas with the troops of royalist priest Álvarez known as "El Chicharronero". In April 1811, his troops faced the army of Colonel Pedro Celestino Negrete and were defeated in the Battle of Tierra Blanca. Marcos Escobedo went into hiding for several years after this defeat.

In 1817, he came out of hiding and once again joined the war for independence, fighting battles in the towns of San Andrés, Chalchihuites and Huejuquilla, gaining control of the region for the independence movement. He then joined forces with the armies of Tlaltenango and Jerez and launched a military campaign to take Bolaños and then Tepic.
Late life

On September 27, 1820, Marcos Escobedo organized great festivities in Colotlán to celebrate Mexican independence and the entrance of the independence movement's troops into Mexico City. In 1825, Marcos Escobedo was named Mayor of Colotlán. As mayor, he was charged with subjugating the indigenous groups in the region who opposed the distribution of communal lands. Marcos Escobedo died on August 7, 1833.r

In 1808, he held the title Second Lieutenant in the Spanish army and was governor of the Tlaxcala neighborhood. On November 1, 1808, he declared himself in favor of Mexico's independence from Spain, and along with a priest named Pablo José Calvillo and the indigenous garrisons of the region, put himself at the service of independence leader Miguel Hidalgo.

In January 1811, he and his troops participated in the Battle of the Bridge of Calderón. His troops suffered great losses in the battle and returned to Colotlán to face the troops of Francisco del Real, Juan Lozano, and Sebastián Gallegos, who had occupied the town's square in their absence. In the same month, they faced a battle in Las Canoas with the troops of royalist priest Álvarez known as "El Chicharronero". In April 1811, his troops faced the army of Colonel Pedro Celestino Negrete and were defeated in the Battle of Tierra Blanca. Marcos Escobedo went into hiding for several years after this defeat.

In 1817, he came out of hiding and once again joined the war for independence, fighting battles in the towns of San Andrés, Chalchihuites and Huejuquilla, gaining control of the region for the independence movement. He then joined forces with the armies of Tlaltenango and Jerez and launched a military campaign to take Bolaños and then Tepic.
Late life

On September 27, 1820, Marcos Escobedo organized great festivities in Colotlán to celebrate Mexican independence and the entrance of the independence movement's troops into Mexico City. In 1825, Marcos Escobedo was named Mayor of Colotlán. As mayor, he was charged with subjugating the indigenous groups in the region who opposed the distribution of communal lands. Marcos Escobedo died on August 7, 1833.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Montoya, Valdez(s), Quintana, Vigil, Martin(es)ez), Duran in New Mexico

Hola Joseph,
I have my grandparents who migrated to New Mexico in 1912.

Comments

Comment

I do, on my mother's side; she was from New Mexico.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:09:17 -0400
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Montoya, Valdez(s), Quintana, Vigil, Martin(es)ez), Duran in New Mexico
>
> Does anyone in the group have Montoya, Valdez(s), Quintana, Vigil,
> Martin(es)ez), Duran.
>
> Who migrated to New Mexico? If so I have a contact person for you.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
>
>

Comment

My wife's maternal line is from Pecos, New Mexico - we have all of those names in the tree. Many of her "Spanish" roots have come through Zacatecas/Aguascalientes. I am excited to dig into that period of the Spanish migrations north and what roots they left behind.

I have a public tree on Ancestry.com, "Stofleth-Azua". You may not be able to see the "living" parts, so start with Federico Vigil and Estafanita Varela (my wifes maternal grandparents) and then expand from there. The direct connection to Mexico is through her paternal grandparents: Joaquin Azua and Domitila Guerra, who hail from Rincon de Romos, AGS.

Jerome Stofleth

Comment

If the resource you are referring to is the Hispanic Genealogical Research Society (HGRS), then I am already aware. However, if it is not, then this is a wonderful resource for anyone with relatives in New Mexico: http://www.hgrc-nm.org/. Follow the links to "Great New Mexico Pedigree Database Rev114 (166,845 NAMES)" and then to "Great New Mexico Pedigree Database". You can then search by name. If you go to the bottom of the page, you can click on "Index", which is a much better way to search. It takes a little getting used to, but what a great resource!

Jerome Stofleth

Help reading the marriage doc.

I can't decode what this document is saying so if anyone one can please help.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-252-77?cc=1410092&wc=6…

Comments

Comment

It is from the 1600's and difficult to read, but here is what I got:

It states the three times the plans to marry were announced,and then name Nicolas de Armas.
After Nicolas de Armas, looks like esp (espanol) and then something I have never seen before: mocosoltero. So I googled it and moco soltero pops up in other texts and is an old fashioned way of saying handsome single young man.

Likewise it looks like moca doncella (abr. don_a)is whats written after Juana's name, moca doncella also shows up on a google search and means something like beatiful and young (virgin)girl. Doncella I have seen before, and soltero, but not moca/moco. Learned something new!And it looks like Dona (abbreviated) in front of Juanas name.

Nicolas son of:
Miguel de Armas, deceased and Andrea (?) de Avila, desceased..."dicho ciudad" (of said town/city) The word after the abbreviation of difunto and before "dicho" I cannot read.

Dona Juana is either dau or ward of (?) Leonor de Lesalde espanola and Antonio de Robalcaba (caste or nationality which I dont recognize). Possibly deceased (difuntos). There is text here which I cannot decipher, but surely someone used to reading records from this time period would be able to...

Padrinos: Pedro de Ulloa and Dona Josepha de Sepulveda his wife. I think its odd that there's no Don in front of Pedro...

Hope this helps at least a little bit! And I hope someone out there can add more...

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Comment

I was wondering if it is possible to find my ancestor from working forward to backwards from finding the earliest De Armas individual in Mexico and just going from there and see if it leads to my De Armas ancestor if it is possible can you explain to me how to do it?One more thing so this brick wall im having with Juan Amrosio De Armas I think i found his baptism record but i'm not sure if it's really him how can i verify if it's really him here is the link

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-16430-12?cc=1410092&wc…

In reply to by abram101

Comment

It is really fun when you find a match! I get that the father is Nicolas de Armas and the mother is Juana de (cant'read). But what it interesting and exciting is the padrinos are the same ones as for the marriage! Pedro de Ulloa and Josepha de Sepulveda.

Regards
Denise
(ps wish I was having such good luck)

Comment

Denise,

It's really awesome right!?Yes basically the father is Nicolas De Armas and Juana De Lisalde/Carrion/Currion.But i still need to find out if that is really Ambrosio De Armas parents but i have no clue how?Really can i get the link for it?

In reply to by abram101

Comment

Abram

The normal process is to work from the known to the unknown. Going the other way is less productive, in general.

I took a look at the record you cite: if I read it correctly, it is a 1682 baptism of Juan de Armas.

As I recall, your Juan Ambrocio de Armas had at least 6 children, one of whom (Maria Francisca) was baptized 18 Dec 1757, in Nochistlan; there seem not be to baptisms for the others, but they are identified in the marriage records as his children. That would make him 75 years old in 1757. This age would make it pretty unlikely that this Juan and your Juan Ambrocio are the same.

Or said differently, Nicholas de Armas, father of Juan, is not the father of Juan Ambrocio. At best, Nicholas would be a grandfather. Proof is lacking.

If you look at the records of baptisms and marriages for all known descendants of Nicholas de Armas, and some of them show up in the records of your known de Armas ancestors as padrinos, this may imply a relationship. However, by itself, this is not proof.

As previously noted, look in the matrimonial investigations. It is possible some clues may be there, or if you are lucky, you may even find the link you need. A word of caution: the early matrimonial investigations files are not necessarily complete, and may not be in chronological order. This is especially true in the early years.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Hi Abram

I agree with Mr. Fulton about working from the known to the uknown.

You have found Nicolas, Juana and son Juan in the late 1600's. That the Nicolas and Juana named in the marriage entry are the same as the Nicolas and Juana in the baptism entry is something supported by the names of the padrinos.

However, you cannot prove that son Juan is identical to your Juan Ambrosio. I know that brick wall all too well!

The best advice is that given by Mr. Fulton - try to find a matrimonial investigation for Juan Ambrosio or someone in Juan Ambrosios family, which I gather you have a certain link to.

Good Luck! (you'll need it)

Denise

Comment

Abram

These are all at the same Family Search location as the baptism, marriage, and death records for Nochistlan. These are the links for the specific films.

1730-32
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-27192-28?cc=1410092&wc…

Apparently there is a gap for 1733, but that is possibly too early, as are likely the 1730-32 records.

1734-38
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-20514-7?cc=1410092&wc=…

1739-49
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-12423-6?cc=1410092&wc=…

1750-59
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15192-13468-86?cc=1410092&wc…

There also records for 1677-1707, but there is a large gap as the next group is 1730-32. After 1759, there are some gaps in the 1760s, but they seem to cover all the years after that to 1800. I didn't check dates after that.

These records, at least after the earliest years follow a standard form:

Typically, each investigation begins on a new page. Although this is not necessarily true for the earlier records.

Introductory paragraph with the date, location, and some ecclesiatical information.

A paragraph that begins with the groom's name, ethnicity, where he's from, and usually parent's names. If he is a widower, his former wife's name is given; in this case his parents names are usually omitted. Sometimes it will state how long he has been a widower. It gives the bride's name, ethnicity, parent's names; if she was a widow, her former husband's name is given, and then her parents names are usually omitted. This is probably the most valuable part of the document as there may be information here that is not in the marriage record, especially in the early years. The groom apparently signs the statement (or the notary for him).

There will be declaration by the groom (or Pretenso), which repeats much of this, and often will give his age also.

There will be a declaration by the bride (or Pretensa), which is similar to the groom's.

There will be statements of some witnesses; 2 or 3 is typical. The intent of all this is establish that they are not currently married, or if the were married, the former spouse is known to be deceased (sometimes there will be a certificate or statement from the church where he/she is buried). The witnesses will also state that there is no impediment such as consanguinity or affinity. They are of good character, and so on.

There will be a finding of no impediment, and the document will close with an attestation that they were married.

A typical record is 2-3 images (5-6 pages). If there are "problems," the record can be longer.

If the marriage required a dispensation (dispensa), that document may be attached; sometimes, that is only only document for the investigation in the matrimonial investigation book. The dispensa is not the investigation for the dispensation, those documents are with the diocesan records in Guadalajara. The dispensa will state the impediment (eg, 4th degree consanguinity), but will not give the details of the relationship.

The declarations and witness statements all tend to follow a standard pattern. The eclessiatical language adds little of genealogical value.

Once again, these files are not necessarily complete. There are marriages with no extant investigation records, and there are investigation records for couples that you cannot find a marriage record.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George,

So for sure this Nicholas De Armas is some how related to my Ambrosio De Armas?I'm taking a pretty good educated guess that this Nicholas De Armas was from Mexticacan then went to Nochistlan. The matrimonial investigation are located in the Guadalajara Dispensas if I'm correct?Ilooked through the Guadalajara Dispensas and found nothing on Ambrosio De Armas.

Comment

This is why trying to work from the unknown to prove a relationship is problematic.

With what we have at the moment, we cannot say that Nicholas de Armas is related to your de Armas family. A similar name in a small town suggests a relationship, but this is a long way from proof.

I did not say that Nicolas de Armas is related. What I said this that his son Juan de Armas is likely not the same person as your Juan Ambrocio de Armas.

I also said that, if related, he (Nicolas) could, at the closest, be a grandfather of Juan Ambrocio. At the moment this is purely hypothetical. Juan, the son of Nicolas de Armas, was born in 1682. Juan Ambrocio de Armas had a daughter baptized in 1757. It is very unlikely that a 75 year old man would father a child, he is too old.

Based on several dates with Juan Ambrocio's family, I would estimate that he was married in the 1740-45 period. It is also possible that he was married in the late 1730s. If you don't find anything in the 1740-45 matrimonial investigations, then try the 1735-40 period.

The Nochistlan matrimonial investigations are with the other Nochistlan church records, not with the dispensations in the Diocese of Guadalajara records.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

introduction for azua-stofleth

Hello all,

I am doing research for my wife's family (and of course for my kids as well). My lineage is German on top of German, with a little German thrown in.

Comments

Comment

Welcome Jerry and Paula,

It's very refreshing to hear that you are taking the time to look for possible roots in Mexico. I find that many researchers want to make the connection from New Mexico to Spain without considering possible links in Mexico...welcome.

Baptism records for Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas?

What church records should I be searching to find a baptism record from 1827?

T.I.A.,
Roy

Comments

Comment

Can't say they are exclusively there but some of Maria de La Torre records
for that time period can be found in the Colotlan archives - for example:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18450-31025-92?cc=1874591&wc…
3895

joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of rvr_jr@msn.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:29 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Baptism records for Maria de la Torre,
Zacatecas?
>
> What church records should I be searching to find a baptism record from
1827?
>
> T.I.A.,
> Roy

Comment

What town or city in Zacatecas? or is it the city of Zacatecas proper?

Alicia
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 3:28 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Baptism records for Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas?

What church records should I be searching to find a baptism record from 1827?

T.I.A.,
Roy

Research, Patricia Gómez left a message for you

Patricia Gómez left a message for you

Only you can see the sender and content of your message, and you can delete it anytime.

Comments

Comment

Hello Ms. Gomez, badoo is a dating focused social networking site and as i am not single, i would prefer to be contacted for genealogy reseach through this forum or google mail, as others have done, not by a link which may just be spam. Like everyone else, I am wary of computer viri and unwanted cookies. If you have a question or comment relevant to my areas of interest as described in my userprofile and previous posts, you are very welcome to contact me.
Regards, Denise Fastrup

DNA of The Denisovens of Siberia

Today while driving home from work, I was listening to NPR specifically to the California Report about a just published study in a science journal about the DNA findings of the Denisovens.

Comments

Comment

Thanks to a little girl's pinkie bone.  Fascinating!

--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA of The Denisovens of Siberia
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 11:11 PM

Today while driving home from work, I was listening to NPR specifically to the California Report about a just published study in a science journal about the DNA findings of the Denisovens. To those of you who might be more experienced in DNA, this might be old news, but for me, this is new news. I came home straight to my computer to search for articles about our ancient ancestors, the Denisovens.

Alicia,
Northern California

Here's a brief intro into this article, I hope you find it as fascinating as I did.

THE Denisovans, mysterious cousins of the
Neanderthals, occupied a vast realm stretching from the chill expanse of Siberia to the steamy tropical forests of Indonesia - suggesting the
third human of the Pleistocene displayed a level of adaptability
previously thought to be unique to modern humans.
Our first tantalising glimpse of the Denisovans came last year with DNA analysis of a bone and tooth found in a Siberian cave. The DNA was distinct
enough from Neanderthals' to suggest tens of thousands of years of
independent evolution.
Before they disappeared, the Denisovans found time to interbreed with Homo sapiens. As a result, 5 per cent of the Denisovan genome lives on - not in the
inhabitants of Siberia but in Papua New Guineans, living thousands of
kilometres to the south-east (Nature, DOI: 10.1038/nature09710).

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128323.200-the-vast-asian-realm…

Records for Piedras Negras

Does anyone know if there are any records for Piedras Negras Aguascalientes after 1902?. My grandmother was born in 1906 in Piedras Negras.

Comments

Comment

Which part of Aguascalientes is Piedras Negras located?
MG

In a message dated 8/23/2012 3:42:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
juanitahenniger@msn.com writes:

Does anyone know if there are any records for Piedras Negras
Aguascalientes after 1902?. My grandmother was born in 1906 in Piedras Negras. I was
hoping to find something that would lead me to my great grandmother's parents
as we know very little about them. Thanks.

Comment

It looks to be part of Jesús María, Aguascalientes -
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/piedras-negras/

The baptisms are at

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…

The civil records are at

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…

Saludos
Armando

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 9:39 PM, wrote:

> Which part of Aguascalientes is Piedras Negras located?
> MG
>
>
> In a message dated 8/23/2012 3:42:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> juanitahenniger@msn.com writes:
>
> Does anyone know if there are any records for Piedras Negras
> Aguascalientes after 1902?. My grandmother was born in 1906 in Piedras
> Negras. I was
> hoping to find something that would lead me to my great grandmother's
> parents
> as we know very little about them. Thanks.

My MtDNA Results

I just got my MtDNA results from FamilyTreeDNA.

I am haplogroup C, which supposedly "is found in eastern Eurasia and throughout the Americas.

Comments

Comment

>> Anyway my too long of point is I don't think it matters where you go you just need to be aware that what comes back may look surprising so you may need to do some additional research to make sense of it.

Applause!!!

Very well said. Our story was not inspired by DNA results, but rather the appearance of a Mongolian birthmark on our first-born son. Both my husband and I were doing some head scratching. Our families were all speculating about the Mongolian immigration, indigenous lineage, etc. Research has now shown us that my husband's great grandfather immigrated to Mexico from China. Now I look forward to some fun when we finally get our DNA testing done.

In reply to by bbbunny

Comment

just wanted to share our head scratching moment too when we got back my Mothers paternal Gutierrez line that I had researched back to Michoacan in abt 1660.. the DNA said haplogroup N.. Siberia, Finland and Russia.. then I found the the Sami tribe in Finland has exfoliation glaucoma that is  a genetic condition passed through families.. in my maternal like we almost all have exfoliation glaucoma.. could be just a co incidence but was interesting.  I also got an e-mail from a person in the states who said her family paternal line had immegrated to the States from Finland in 1850.. we were a genetic match!  we both had to laugh.. what else can you do! I did forget to ask if they have exfoliation glaucoma too.. oh well..
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: That Danged Wabbit
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results

>> Anyway my too long of point is I don't think it matters where you go you just need to be aware that what comes back may look surprising so you may need to do some additional research to make sense of it.

Applause!!!

Very well said.  Our story was not inspired by DNA results, but rather the appearance of a Mongolian birthmark on our first-born son.  Both my husband and I were doing some head scratching.  Our families were all speculating about the Mongolian immigration, indigenous lineage, etc.  Research has now shown us that my husband's great grandfather immigrated to Mexico from China.  Now I look forward to some fun when we finally get our DNA testing done.

Comment

My sister told me that she had a couple of teeth that were scooped shape in
the back, and that she had read this indicated Mongolian roots. Has anyone
heard of this?
I myself have two scooped shape teeth. One on each side of the front teeth.

What was the Mongolian birth mark?

-----Original Message-----
From: announce-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:announce-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of That Danged
Wabbit
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:35 AM
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results

>> Anyway my too long of point is I don't think it matters where you go you
just need to be aware that what comes back may look surprising so you may
need to do some additional research to make sense of it.

Applause!!!

Very well said. Our story was not inspired by DNA results, but rather the
appearance of a Mongolian birthmark on our first-born son. Both my husband
and I were doing some head scratching. Our families were all speculating
about the Mongolian immigration, indigenous lineage, etc. Research has now
shown us that my husband's great grandfather immigrated to Mexico from
China. Now I look forward to some fun when we finally get our DNA testing
done.

Comment

Emilie,

It is interesting to see you also got Haplogroup C. I notice not many members here have that MtDNA Haplogroup.

I also have Haplogroup C, and I noticed many in the same Haplogroup do have their ancestral origins in New Mexico.

Comment

Hello Emilie,

The colonization of the Americas happened about close to 15,000-18,000
years ago and there were 15 founding mtDNA lineages according to the two
following articles.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020145054.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100628170926.htm

Native American Y-DNA is also an interesting subject. Hopefully more
studies will be realized with those groups in the coming years. In the
following page they compare Sioux, Chippewa, Pima, Tarahumara, Nahua, and
Otomí, and Qechua speakers.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/05/y-chromosome-diversity-in-native.h…

Your mtDNA haplogroup started 40,000 years ago and they determine that by a
calculation of mutation rates. Your ancestor that had that first mutation
lived in Asia and her descendants didn't cross the Bering Strait until
15,000-18,000 years ago. A mutation is the sudden change in genes or
chromosomes between an organism or being and an offspring. This is what
caused evolution. The beings with the mutations that were better suited to
changes in the environment were the ones that survived. Mutations can be
seen in the DNA because of sequences that change. These sequences are
represented by the letters A, T, C, and G which stand for four chemical
bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). The DNA
strands with a string of letters like
this:ATATTTGAAAGCTGTGTCTGTAAACTGATGGCTAACAAAACTAG Certain areas of the
DNA have
certain sequences and when there is a difference between one person and
another that is the mutation they are speaking of.

I don't think mtDNA changes as often as Y-DNA which is why it is harder to
find matches with people with the same surname apart from the fact that the
population size has to be fairly large and there have to be enough people
willing to test. Unfortunately there are too many people unwilling to test
in all segments which slows the discovery process. We need more people
willing to test and share the data. I think their inability to understand
what can be derived from DNA or what it means keeps them from doing this.
It is very sad really.

Saludos
Armando

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:

>
> I just got my MtDNA results from FamilyTreeDNA.
>
> I am haplogroup C, which supposedly "is found in eastern Eurasia and
> throughout the Americas. This haplogroup was present in the populations
> that initially colonized the pre-Columbian Americas, and dates to at least
> 40,000 years ago. Future work will resolve the issue of how many distinct
> colonization events there were in the original peopling of the Americas,
> and the role of individuals bearing haplogroup C." (Description used
> without written permission).
>
> Eastern Eurasia. No wonder people from there mistake me for Filipino or
> Thai. This happens frequently. I do have an Asian cast to my eyes.
>
> They also sent a map showing the migration of haplogroup C from eastern
> Africa across Asia, over the Bering Straight, down Alaska and Canada, and
> then to North, Central and South America.
>
> Maybe when I go to Arizona, and they ask for my papers, I can show them
> this to prove I didn't hop the fence yesterday, and ask them to show me
> theirs. Forty thousand years! I guess I am as "American" as anybody can
> get. I knew I was Native American--all I have to do is look in the
> mirror---and my mother's people-- the Piro-Manso-Tewa- have been in some
> pueblos in New Mexico that have been continually occupied for over a
> thousand years, but they have really been there 40,000 years? How do they
> figure that? Wow!
>
> They also sent a graph of "HVR1 Differences from rCRS" (mutations?):
> 1609C, 16176T, 1628T, 1629C, 16325C, 16327T, and 16519C. I also clicked
> on "Show All Positions" and I got a very long string of the same thing, but
> the letters included were A, T, C, and G. Are those haplogroups? What are
> they?
>
> I am not a total dummy, but this DNA stuff has me in a tizzy. What are
> mutations? What are the differences? Should I care? I tried looking at
> their tutorials, but I ended up feeling like an imbecile, not understanding
> a thing. Their website also is very difficult to maneuver. I couldn't
> find my results until I clicked on dozens of titles.
>
> They also sent a list of "matches". Some have Anglo surnames, but their
> "most distant known female ancestor" are all from New Mexico. The surnames
> of these ancestors are not in my lines, but they are all common to New
> Mexico. I guess that just means that no one with my particular surnames
> submitted their MtDNA.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help in understanding this,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA

Comment

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Hi, I received my results last year and I was Haplogroup A, but on last month I received the results of family finder and the results were:

57.04% Europe Western Europe (French, Spanish)
29.62% Central American Native American (Mayan)
8.25 % Midle East Mozabite, Palestinian, Jewish,Bedouin
5.09 % East Asia (Siberian) Yakut

My Y DNA is R1b western europe.

With family finder I check that a part of native american with Mtdna haplogropu A came from Siberia as you can see. Family finder put mayan for all native american of Mexico, because until now they do not have for huichol, azteca, caxcan, olmeca, seri, tarahumara, etc dna.

My matches are just two persons one from Mexico and one from New Mexico.

My family came from Tlaltenango, Zacatecas

My maternal lineage : Juana de Jesus ab 1720 Tlaltenango
My paternal lineage : Manuel Sanchez Castellanos ab 1559 Sevilla, Spain

Comment

Armando,

Thanks for your clear explanation of DNA for me. I need someone that can come down to my level of understanding. When it comes to math, science, etc. I am like a not-so-smart 2nd grader.

I can see that I misunderstood the time that Haplogroup has been in the Americas. I kind of thought that was unusual, since mostly I have heard that Native Americans populated the Americas 10,000 years ago only.

I have a question still about the mutations. The A, T. C. and G, are those only for my haplogroup C or does everyone have those letters? Also does haplogroup C mean that my chemical base is cytocine---is that how they came up with the letters for the various haplogroups, the chemical bases?

Yes, you are right about people hesitating to provide their DNA for research--the fact that the science of it and terminology seem daunting. That was my reason---I couldn't understand "subclades" etc when people on Nuestros Ranchos started talking about it. In fact, had I not joined Nuestros Ranchos, I wouldn't even have been aware of DNA testing for genealogical purposes. Now there are shows on TV that kind of help inform people, but some people refuse for reasons unknown to participate in DNA testing. I am sure some whites don't like the discovery of Africans in their ancestry.

I know from my researching the records in Zacatecas that my father had mulatto blood as well as Basque and very little indio. Mostly the records on his male side say espanol. I have found nothing on his mother's side. He told me he was a mestizo. So does that mean that since my DNA follows only my female ancestors on my maternal side, that I will never know if I have mulato or Basque DNA?

Your explanation of mutations and that they occur from one person to another, and not that it occurs in the same person helped me a lot in understanding. (See, I told you my understanding is almost less than grade-school). I'm an artist and intuitive, not what you would call "rational".

I too am interested in Y-DNA though I will never know my father's (from Zacatecas) since he had no brothers and his uncles and male cousins are long gone and I don't know the younger generations. I only have a sister. I wanted to know from the Apaches what their DNA is, but they say that their elders do not want them to be studied that way, nor will they share their family trees; they say they are all "equal" and that family trees only serve to find out who is more elite than others. They also say descendancy is "matrilineal"? I thought that the BIA required that they be tested, but I guess they force them to do that---they fear being taken off the rolls and lose benefits if they don't have a certain "quantum" of Native blood?

I want to know about the Apaches because so many of my male cousins were never taught about their tribal history and think they are Apache, but I know they are not. We are Piro-Manso-Tewa, Pueblo tribes going back to the days of Onate, though the last person who knew the language and tribal history was my great-grandfather who was killed in 1900. My 98 year old Auntie in New Mexico knows the real story. All of our male ancestors fought the Apaches, and I have military records to show they belonged to local militias and were Army scouts who battled the Apaches before and after the Civil War. During the days of the Royal Army they served in the Presidios, again to protect the routes and people from "los indios barbaros".

I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions. Thank you again,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

-----------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:44:37 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> The colonization of the Americas happened about close to 15,000-18,000
> years ago and there were 15 founding mtDNA lineages according to the two
> following articles.
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020145054.htm
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100628170926.htm
>
>
> Native American Y-DNA is also an interesting subject. Hopefully more
> studies will be realized with those groups in the coming years. In the
> following page they compare Sioux, Chippewa, Pima, Tarahumara, Nahua, and
> Otomí, and Qechua speakers.
>
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/05/y-chromosome-diversity-in-native.h…
>
>
> Your mtDNA haplogroup started 40,000 years ago and they determine that by a
> calculation of mutation rates. Your ancestor that had that first mutation
> lived in Asia and her descendants didn't cross the Bering Strait until
> 15,000-18,000 years ago. A mutation is the sudden change in genes or
> chromosomes between an organism or being and an offspring. This is what
> caused evolution. The beings with the mutations that were better suited to
> changes in the environment were the ones that survived. Mutations can be
> seen in the DNA because of sequences that change. These sequences are
> represented by the letters A, T, C, and G which stand for four chemical
> bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). The DNA
> strands with a string of letters like
> this:ATATTTGAAAGCTGTGTCTGTAAACTGATGGCTAACAAAACTAG Certain areas of the
> DNA have
> certain sequences and when there is a difference between one person and
> another that is the mutation they are speaking of.
>
> I don't think mtDNA changes as often as Y-DNA which is why it is harder to
> find matches with people with the same surname apart from the fact that the
> population size has to be fairly large and there have to be enough people
> willing to test. Unfortunately there are too many people unwilling to test
> in all segments which slows the discovery process. We need more people
> willing to test and share the data. I think their inability to understand
> what can be derived from DNA or what it means keeps them from doing this.
> It is very sad really.
>
> Saludos
> Armando
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> >
> > I just got my MtDNA results from FamilyTreeDNA.
> >
> > I am haplogroup C, which supposedly "is found in eastern Eurasia and
> > throughout the Americas. This haplogroup was present in the populations
> > that initially colonized the pre-Columbian Americas, and dates to at least
> > 40,000 years ago. Future work will resolve the issue of how many distinct
> > colonization events there were in the original peopling of the Americas,
> > and the role of individuals bearing haplogroup C." (Description used
> > without written permission).
> >
> > Eastern Eurasia. No wonder people from there mistake me for Filipino or
> > Thai. This happens frequently. I do have an Asian cast to my eyes.
> >
> > They also sent a map showing the migration of haplogroup C from eastern
> > Africa across Asia, over the Bering Straight, down Alaska and Canada, and
> > then to North, Central and South America.
> >
> > Maybe when I go to Arizona, and they ask for my papers, I can show them
> > this to prove I didn't hop the fence yesterday, and ask them to show me
> > theirs. Forty thousand years! I guess I am as "American" as anybody can
> > get. I knew I was Native American--all I have to do is look in the
> > mirror---and my mother's people-- the Piro-Manso-Tewa- have been in some
> > pueblos in New Mexico that have been continually occupied for over a
> > thousand years, but they have really been there 40,000 years? How do they
> > figure that? Wow!
> >
> > They also sent a graph of "HVR1 Differences from rCRS" (mutations?):
> > 1609C, 16176T, 1628T, 1629C, 16325C, 16327T, and 16519C. I also clicked
> > on "Show All Positions" and I got a very long string of the same thing, but
> > the letters included were A, T, C, and G. Are those haplogroups? What are
> > they?
> >
> > I am not a total dummy, but this DNA stuff has me in a tizzy. What are
> > mutations? What are the differences? Should I care? I tried looking at
> > their tutorials, but I ended up feeling like an imbecile, not understanding
> > a thing. Their website also is very difficult to maneuver. I couldn't
> > find my results until I clicked on dozens of titles.
> >
> > They also sent a list of "matches". Some have Anglo surnames, but their
> > "most distant known female ancestor" are all from New Mexico. The surnames
> > of these ancestors are not in my lines, but they are all common to New
> > Mexico. I guess that just means that no one with my particular surnames
> > submitted their MtDNA.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any help in understanding this,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Announce Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > announce(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Comment

Everybody has A, T. C. and G. They are the nucleobases of DNA of all living
things. The letter assigned to each haplogroup has no relation to the
nucleobases. The letters for the haplogroups were assigned as they first
identified the haplogroups, most likely in alphabetical order.

In order to find out more about your DNA you can do a Family Finder test
like the one Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez kindly published yesterday.
However, as you can see Western Europeans are clumped together as one
group. There is no distinction between region so the Basque would be
grouped into that one. The Middle Easterners are grouped together and so
on. So you will only get generalized results and not results as specific as
Y-DNA can be. For example, my subgroup or subclade within the R1b
haplogroup has it's highest frequency in Northeast Spain and Southwest
France and first came about 4,200 years ago. The Basque Country is in
Northeast Spain which is where my great-grandfather was from and since his
DNA matches the area then his ancestors most likely had been there at least
4,000 and up to 5,000 years before him. I would not be able to get that
info from a Family Finder test. This is where having our distant cousins
doing Y-DNA tests for our different lines could help us out and it could be
more valuable than the Family Finder tests, although if enough people did
those we could find more info on a few other things as well. In your case I
recommend you get the Family Finder test even though you won't have
specific answers to some questions.

The Y-DNA subclades M65, Z196, and M153 are the ones that are more
prevalent within the Basque country but there are other subclades within
the Basque country so even if you could get the Y-DNA of your distant
cousins you wouldn't necessarily be able to say for a fact if they were
Basque or not. Not all is lost though. What is the surname and date of the
person you think was Basque? We might be able to find someone from the same
line that has tested or is willing to test.

It's unfortunate that the Apache don't want to test. Some things will
always remain a mystery even if there are/were ways to know the truth.

Of course I don't mind you asking the questions.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:

>
> Armando,
>
> Thanks for your clear explanation of DNA for me. I need someone that can
> come down to my level of understanding. When it comes to math, science,
> etc. I am like a not-so-smart 2nd grader.
>
> I can see that I misunderstood the time that Haplogroup has been in the
> Americas. I kind of thought that was unusual, since mostly I have heard
> that Native Americans populated the Americas 10,000 years ago only.
>
> I have a question still about the mutations. The A, T. C. and G, are
> those only for my haplogroup C or does everyone have those letters? Also
> does haplogroup C mean that my chemical base is cytocine---is that how they
> came up with the letters for the various haplogroups, the chemical bases?
>
> Yes, you are right about people hesitating to provide their DNA for
> research--the fact that the science of it and terminology seem daunting.
> That was my reason---I couldn't understand "subclades" etc when people on
> Nuestros Ranchos started talking about it. In fact, had I not joined
> Nuestros Ranchos, I wouldn't even have been aware of DNA testing for
> genealogical purposes. Now there are shows on TV that kind of help inform
> people, but some people refuse for reasons unknown to participate in DNA
> testing. I am sure some whites don't like the discovery of Africans in
> their ancestry.
>
> I know from my researching the records in Zacatecas that my father had
> mulatto blood as well as Basque and very little indio. Mostly the records
> on his male side say espanol. I have found nothing on his mother's side.
> He told me he was a mestizo. So does that mean that since my DNA follows
> only my female ancestors on my maternal side, that I will never know if I
> have mulato or Basque DNA?
>
> Your explanation of mutations and that they occur from one person to
> another, and not that it occurs in the same person helped me a lot in
> understanding. (See, I told you my understanding is almost less than
> grade-school). I'm an artist and intuitive, not what you would call
> "rational".
>
> I too am interested in Y-DNA though I will never know my father's (from
> Zacatecas) since he had no brothers and his uncles and male cousins are
> long gone and I don't know the younger generations. I only have a sister.
> I wanted to know from the Apaches what their DNA is, but they say that
> their elders do not want them to be studied that way, nor will they share
> their family trees; they say they are all "equal" and that family trees
> only serve to find out who is more elite than others. They also say
> descendancy is "matrilineal"? I thought that the BIA required that they be
> tested, but I guess they force them to do that---they fear being taken off
> the rolls and lose benefits if they don't have a certain "quantum" of
> Native blood?
>
> I want to know about the Apaches because so many of my male cousins were
> never taught about their tribal history and think they are Apache, but I
> know they are not. We are Piro-Manso-Tewa, Pueblo tribes going back to the
> days of Onate, though the last person who knew the language and tribal
> history was my great-grandfather who was killed in 1900. My 98 year old
> Auntie in New Mexico knows the real story. All of our male ancestors
> fought the Apaches, and I have military records to show they belonged to
> local militias and were Army scouts who battled the Apaches before and
> after the Civil War. During the days of the Royal Army they served in the
> Presidios, again to protect the routes and people from "los indios
> barbaros".
>
> I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions. Thank you again,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>

> -----------------------------------------------------------
>

Introducion

Hola :

Gracias por recibirme, Mi nombre es Salvador Gutierrez Reynoso, Mi antepasado
mas antiguo que tengo registrado por   parte de Gutierres,  se llamó, Francisco
Gutiérres de Hermosillo

Comments

Comment

Primero que nada bienvenido al foro,,, al parecer somos parientes te mando datos de ancestros de Francisco y de Tomasa Garcia, yo desciendo por dos lineas de este francisco ya que caso dos veses primero con Tomasita Garcia y despues con Dolores Gomez de Mendoza,,, del Matrimonio de francisco de Mendoza y Tomasita deciendo de Maria Manuela Gtz casada con Nicolas Glz de Ruvalcaba

espero le puedas entender ,,cualquier duda estoy a tus ordenes
Ancestros de Francisco Gtz

1ra Generación

1. Francisco Gutierrez De Hermosillo nació el 3 Abr. 1687 en Ocotlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 2. Lazaro Gutierrez Hermosillo nació en 1654 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 3. Ines de la Mora nació el 10 Feb. 1669 en Ocotlán, Jalisco, México y murió en una fecha desconocida.

2da Generación (Padres)

2. Lazaro Gutierrez Hermosillo nació en 1654 y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Ines de la Mora el 7 Feb. 1684 en Ocotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.

Padre: 4. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en 1610 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió el 12 Ene. 1692.

Madre: 5. Juana Lomelin nació en 1610 y murió el 20 Oct. 1692 en Tepatitlan jalisco.

3. Ines de la Mora nació el 10 Feb. 1669 en Ocotlán, Jalisco, México y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 6. Fernando de la Mora nació en 1610 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 7. Maria Zamora murió en una fecha desconocida.

3ra Generación (Abuelos)

4. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en 1610 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió el 12 Ene. 1692. El se casó con Juana Lomelin en 1651 en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Padre: 8. Miguel Gutierrez Rubio nació en 1584 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 9. Leonor Hermosillo nació en 1588 y murió el 8 Dic. 1682 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.

5. Juana Lomelin nació en 1610 y murió el 20 Oct. 1692 en Tepatitlan jalisco.

Otros eventos en la vida de Juana Lomelin
Sepultura Jalostotitlan. Jalisco

Padre: 10. Carlos Lomelin nació en 1584 en Genova, Genova, Italia y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 11. Maria Benavides nació en 1590 en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico y murió el 9 Dic. 1669 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

6. Fernando de la Mora nació en 1610 y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Zamora.

7. Maria Zamora murió en una fecha desconocida.

4ta Generación (Bisabuelos)

8. Miguel Gutierrez Rubio nació en 1584 y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Leonor Hermosillo en 1609.

Padre: 12. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

Madre: 13. Ana Gonzalez Florida murió el 7 May 1672 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

9. Leonor Hermosillo nació en 1588 y murió el 8 Dic. 1682 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.

Padre: 14. Juan Gonzalez de hermosillo nació en 1571 y murió en 1627.

Madre: 15. Maria Muñoz murió en una fecha desconocida.

10. Carlos Lomelin nació en 1584 en Genova, Genova, Italia y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Benavides Alrededor de 1609 en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

11. Maria Benavides nació en 1590 en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico y murió el 9 Dic. 1669 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

5ta Generación (Tatarabuelos)

12. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. El se casó con Ana Gonzalez Florida.

Padre: 16. Diego Gonzalez Rubio nació en Primeros Pobladores de Jalostotitlan y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 17. Maria Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

13. Ana Gonzalez Florida murió el 7 May 1672 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

14. Juan Gonzalez de hermosillo nació en 1571 y murió en 1627. El se casó con Maria Muñoz.

Padre: 18. Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 19. Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno murió en una fecha desconocida.

15. Maria Muñoz murió en una fecha desconocida.

6ta Generación (Tatara-Tatarabuelos)

16. Diego Gonzalez Rubio nació en Primeros Pobladores de Jalostotitlan y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Rubio.

17. Maria Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

18. Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno.

19. Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno murió en una fecha desconocida.

y De Tomasita Garcia de Hermosillo seria lo siguiente

1. Tomasa Garcia De Hermosillo nació en 1693 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió el 19 Nov. 1730 en Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico.

Padre: 2. Agustin II Garcia Ramirez nació en 1657 en San Juan de los Lagos y murió el 24 Jun. 1718 en san Juan de los Lagos.

Madre: 3. Josefa Marquez de los olivos nació en 1661 en san Juan de los Lagos y murió en san Juan de los Lagos.

2da Generación (Padres)

2. Agustin II Garcia Ramirez nació en 1657 en San Juan de los Lagos y murió el 24 Jun. 1718 en san Juan de los Lagos. El se casó con Josefa Marquez de los olivos.

Padre: 4. Agustin Garcia de Hermosillo nació en 1624 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 5. Maria Muñoz de la Barba nació en 1635 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió el 22 Dic. 1671 en Estancia de Agustin Garcia.

3. Josefa Marquez de los olivos nació en 1661 en san Juan de los Lagos y murió en san Juan de los Lagos.

Padre: 6. Diego Marquez de los olivos nació en 1620 en Puebla y murió el 18 Mar. 1672.

Madre: 7. Maria de la Cruz Martin del campo nació el 3 Jun. 1640 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

3ra Generación (Abuelos)

4. Agustin Garcia de Hermosillo nació en 1624 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Muñoz de la Barba en 1651.

Padre: 8. Diego Alfonso Ramirez murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 9. Paula Torres nació en 1602 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico y murió en una fecha desconocida.

5. Maria Muñoz de la Barba nació en 1635 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico y murió el 22 Dic. 1671 en Estancia de Agustin Garcia.

Padre: 10. Francisco Muñoz de la Barba murió el 27 Jun. 1667 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

Madre: 11. Catalina Gutierrez Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

6. Diego Marquez de los olivos nació en 1620 en Puebla y murió el 18 Mar. 1672. El se casó con Maria de la Cruz Martin del campo en 1658 en San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.

Padre: 12. Jose Marquez de los olivos nació en Puebla y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 13. Maria Ornelas murió en una fecha desconocida.

7. Maria de la Cruz Martin del campo nació el 3 Jun. 1640 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 14. Lazaro Martin del campo nació el 2 Abr. 1608 en Revilla de Campos, Palencia, España y murió el 22 Mar. 1674 en San Juan De Los Lagos.

Madre: 15. Maria Gertrudis Lopez de la cruz nació en 1609 y murió 22 de mayo de 1670 en San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco..

4ta Generación (Bisabuelos)

8. Diego Alfonso Ramirez murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Paula Torres.

Padre: 16. Juan Gonzalez de hermosillo nació en 1571 y murió en 1627.

Madre: 17. Maria Muñoz murió en una fecha desconocida.

9. Paula Torres nació en 1602 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 18. Nicolas Ramirez murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 19. Polonia De Torres nació en 1569 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

10. Francisco Muñoz de la Barba murió el 27 Jun. 1667 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México. El se casó con Catalina Gutierrez Rubio, es hija de Francisco Gutierrez Rubio y Ana Gonzalez Florida, en 1619 en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.

11. Catalina Gutierrez Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 20. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

Madre: 21. Ana Gonzalez Florida murió el 7 May 1672 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

12. Jose Marquez de los olivos nació en Puebla y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Ornelas, es hija de Alvaro Ornelas y Isabel De Mendoza, el 28 Abr. 1614 en Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico.

13. Maria Ornelas murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 22. Alvaro Ornelas murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 23. Isabel De Mendoza nació en 1568 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

14. Lazaro Martin del campo nació el 2 Abr. 1608 en Revilla de Campos, Palencia, España y murió el 22 Mar. 1674 en San Juan De Los Lagos. El se casó con Maria Gertrudis Lopez de la cruz en 1627 en Guadalajara Jalisco.

Padre: 24. Bartolome Martin del campo y Antolin murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 25. Juana Garcia murió en una fecha desconocida.

15. Maria Gertrudis Lopez de la cruz nació en 1609 y murió 22 de mayo de 1670 en San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco..

Padre: 26. Gabriel Lopez de la cruz murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 27. Ana Maria De Paz murió en una fecha desconocida.

5ta Generación (Tatarabuelos)

16. Juan Gonzalez de hermosillo nació en 1571 y murió en 1627. El se casó con Maria Muñoz.

Padre: 28. Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 29. Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno murió en una fecha desconocida.

17. Maria Muñoz murió en una fecha desconocida.

18. Nicolas Ramirez murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Polonia De Torres.

Padre: 30. Francisco Tavera de la Vega murió en una fecha desconocida.

19. Polonia De Torres nació en 1569 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

20. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nació en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco y murió en Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. El se casó con Ana Gonzalez Florida.

Padre: 31. Diego Gonzalez Rubio nació en Primeros Pobladores de Jalostotitlan y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 32. Maria Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

21. Ana Gonzalez Florida murió el 7 May 1672 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México.

22. Alvaro Ornelas murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Isabel De Mendoza el 29 Oct. 1586 en Santa Maria De Los Lagos, Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico.

23. Isabel De Mendoza nació en 1568 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Padre: 33. Toribio Hernandez de Arellano nació en 1540 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Madre: 34. Isabel De Mendoza nació en 1550 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

24. Bartolome Martin del campo y Antolin murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Juana Garcia.

25. Juana Garcia murió en una fecha desconocida.

26. Gabriel Lopez de la cruz murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Ana Maria De Paz el 3 Feb. 1608 en Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.

27. Ana Maria De Paz murió en una fecha desconocida.

6ta Generación (Tatara-Tatarabuelos)

28. Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno.

29. Ana Rodriguez de Magdaleno murió en una fecha desconocida.

30. Francisco Tavera de la Vega murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con (Desconocido).

31. Diego Gonzalez Rubio nació en Primeros Pobladores de Jalostotitlan y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Maria Rubio.

32. Maria Rubio murió en una fecha desconocida.

33. Toribio Hernandez de Arellano nació en 1540 y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Isabel De Mendoza en 1565.

34. Isabel De Mendoza nació en 1550 y murió en una fecha desconocida.

Comment

Muchas Gracias Pepe Chuy:

Vaya que estas documentado, efectivamente, Francisco Gutierrez De H. 2 de sus hijas, Maria Manuela y Juana Gertrudis, de casaros con 2 primos hermanos Gonzalez de Ruvalcava y su hermano de ellas se caso con su propia sobrina carnal, hija de Nicolas Glez de Rub y de Maria Manuela Gtz de H. de nombre Juana Maria Gonzales Gtz y su esposo y tio carnal Miguel Antonio Gutierrez Garcia, se bautiso en Jalos el 22 mayo de 1724, toda esa familia vivieron y murieron el el puesto del Horno , que en ese tiempo pertenecia a Lagos de Moreno, ahora es de Unión de San Antonio, despues compraron o heredaron todo un puesto , el de La calera, Miguel Antonio es mi antepasado directo papa de Jose Marcelo Ramon Gutierrez Glez, este tuvo un hijo Jose Maria Gtz de Anda Altamirano, el cual tuvo un Hijo Hilarion Gtz Glez. el a Salvador Gutierrez Padilla mi abuelo.
Ya te sature , pero gracias por la gran información.
atte.
Salvador Gutiérrez

Comment

Me da gusto que has ingresado al foro. Bienvenido Salvador.
Cuenta conmigo si tienes preguntas sobre genealogia u
otra cosa con gusto te ayudo.

Daniel Méndez Camino
mendezdelcamino@live.com

In reply to by mendezdetorres

Comment

Gracias Daniel, tengo poco que inicié en buscar mas atras del siglo 19 , estoy sorprendido por la endogamia de mis antepasados, pero creo que era normal en aquellos años para conservar la hidalguia.

MI bisabuelo se llamo, Hilarion Gutierrez Gonzalez, tubo muchos hermanos, entre ellos a Don Albino Gutierrez , casado con Trinidad Verdad de Lagos de moreno, tubo 4 hijos y enviudo, se caso nuevamente con Dolores Chavez, de fam. de Aguascalientes; conoscoa los de la segunda familia , pero la primera no se de ningun familiar, como podré seguir la pista de esta familia?
saludos y gracias
atte.
Salvador

Comment

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Hola Salvador, hace ya tiempo que pusiste esta pregunta y leyendo los archivos he encontrado a 4 hijos de Albino Gutierrez y Trinidad Verdad, todos ellos nacidos en Lagos de Moreno

· José Albino Gutierrez Gonzalez, Nacido el martes, 16 de diciembre de 1845
· El viernes, 05 de noviembre de 1880, nació Carlos. Él tenía 34 años.
· El lunes, 14 de noviembre de 1881, nació José Leopoldo. Él tenía 35 años.
· El martes, 15 de enero de 1884, nació Mariana de la Trinidad. Él tenía 38 años.
· El viernes, 31 de diciembre de 1886, nació David. Él tenía 41 años.

en algunos puntos anteriores nuestros ancestros fueron los mismos, me gustaria contactar contigo para expndir nuestra información.

Saludos

Can anyone please help me with my De Armas line?

I have gave up my reasearch on my De Armas line cuase i can't seem to pass the brick wall that i am currently in.So the farthest i have gone in this line is in the marriage of Ambrosio De Armas And Qu

Comments

Comment

You have posted links to the indexed data instead of the images which is more important since they contain info not found in the index.

Have you gone through the images of Información Matrimonial? If not, then you need to and you should index them and share them.

Have you done a Y-DNA 37 marker test with FamilyTreeDNA.com Mexico project? If not you should also do that at http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA

Armando

Comment

Armando,

Sorry about that i will have them up.I have not gone through the images of the informacion matrimonial, any specific reason as to why I should be looking through the informacion matrimonial?I have not but i was planning to take a Dna test only for my maternal line not paternal.

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1730-1750 Pg 53
Joseph Francisco A. Albares
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15088-17814-39?cc=1410092&wc…

Simon Antonio, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and Quiteria Velasques
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1730-1750
Image 329
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15088-17274-41?cc=1410092&wc…

Juan José Fermin, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and Quiteria de Olaya
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1750-1762 pg 43
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15526-50398-25?cc=1410092&wc…

José María, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and María Quiteria
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15526-49089-58?cc=1410092&wc…

María Francisca parents listed as Juan Ambrosio de Armas and Quiteria de Velasco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15526-48390-36?cc=1410092&wc…

Comment

Matrimonial investigations will often give information not found in the marriage records; this is especially true for earlier marriages.

Ocassionaly you will find a matrimonial investigation for a couple that you know had children, but cannot find a marriage record.

You should also look at Claudia's indexes of the Diocese of Guadalajara dispensations. Sometimes if there is no matrimonial investigation in the parish files, it is because a dispensation was needed, and this will generally be in the diocesan records.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George,

After 3 hours i couldn't find theyre names i went through every index in that sight and found nothing on them.Is there anything else i can do than looking over the indexes for abot 3 more hours?it's problably my ignorance.

Comment

None of the dispensas mention Ambrosio de Armas. I had told him at least once before (a few months ago) to look through the volumes of información matrimonial but as you can see he didn't even bother to ask why back then or look at them then he has come back and posted the same question two different times in one week.

Armando

Comment

Armando

So is there no way possible at all to go farther than Ambrosio de Armas and Quiteria De Velasco?I really want to find the origin of this family.

Garza Pantoja

hello,

Comments

Comment

Gloria Casillas
trate de ayudarte pero sin exito, leí el acta y ella se llama mariana, originaria de tizapan el alto, busque ahí, pero las actas comienzan a partir de 1817, intenta con los hijos de la pareja, en ocasiones los familiares son los padrinos y por medio de ellos encuentres el lugar de nacimiento o en los censos, de estos últimos no se mucho y no he encontrado quien me ayude con esto. También busque la descendencia de Marcos Timoteo Garza y María Josefa Pantoja y no encontré nada, tal vez aun no están indexados. Suerte espero los encuentres.

Two Family Tree Tools

For people looking for genealogy software:

PCWorld
View this

Comments