Guadalajara Entierros
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Hi,
I found I book online that I thought someone might find interesting.
the title of the book is:
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Many thanks for sharing!
Austin Perez
Research Digest, Vol 165, Issue 1
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Hi, Laurel....Orendain in Spanish (pronunciation) would be
"oh-ren-dine"....the "r" has a "rolled r" sound...long i sound...if you
google pronouncenames.com you can hear the pronunciation...best wis
Correct pronunciation and spelling of Orendain
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Dear Laurel,
Your question is a good one.
Spanish grammar dictates that words are accented on the second to last syllable of the word unless there is a written accent.
Garcia-Rojas Family Photos of Pinos, Zacatecas
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Not sure if this has been posted before, but I recently stumbled upon a book titled "No queda huella ni memoria?: semblanza iconográfica de una familia" by Aurelio de los Reyes.
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Wow really interesting! I have a lot of Garcias from Zacatecas on both my mom and dads side. I wish I could find a book specifically about Sombrerete.
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Thanks for sharing this with the group Raúl.
My maternal grandmother was Carolina García-Rojas y Camino, her direct paternal line are nephews to the governor of Aguascalientes Pedro García de Rojas. The book is definitely an interesting read. As you denoted, the book contains many photographs, signatures, maps, etc. It even contains coat of arms of the López de Nava, González de Hermosillo and García de Rojas families.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Ruiz de Velasco y Haro
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Can Any HELP! Those who have Ruiz de Velasco lines in Los Altos
the patriarch is Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro married to ANa Núñez
y Bohórrquez. He is supposed to have been a relative of the Viceroy
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Saludos Daniel ya habiamos correspondido hace tiempo. Busco datos sobre Isabel (Ruiz) de Haro. Segun una Limpieza de Sangre que revise Isabel fue hermana de Pedro Ruiz de Haro y hija de Pedro de Haro El secretario del Duque de Albuquerque. No de quien fue marido de Isabel. Es mi ancestra por familia Michel Ordonez. Region de Compostela y Guadalajara en tiempo de la Colonia. Cualquier dato que me aportes me services muchisimo Gracias de ante mano
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Victor M Gomez
HOLA A TODOS
EN UNA DISPENSA MATRIMONIAL ME ENCONTRE QUE LOS PADRES DE ANTONIO NUÑO RASURA ERAN ALONSO NUÑO E ISABEL NUÑEZ DE HARO, DESPUES DE MUCHO BUSCAR ENCONTRE OTRA GENERACION, ESTA ISABEL NUÑEZ DE HARO TENDRA ALGUNA RELACION CON LOS RUIZ DE VELASCO? ALGUIEN ME PUEDE AYUDAR. GRACIAS
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hola,
Ruiz de Velasco y Haro?
creo que aqui tienes una confusión,
existen dos virreyes de Velasco y uno de Haro,
Luis de Velasco, Señor de Salinas (1550-1564)
Luis de Velasco, hijo (1590-1595) (1ª Vez)
Luis de Velasco, hijo (1607-1611) (2ª Vez)
Alonso Núñez de Haro y Peralta, Arzobispo de Mexico (Interino) (Mayo-Agosto
1787).
Creo que tienes mal la información, checa esta página:
http://documents.medici.org/people_details.cfm?personid=1290
Te platico mi historia, yo pensé que era descendiente de Alonso Nuñez de
Haro o de su familia, pero despues de hacer mi investigación me di cuenta
que mis origenes españoles eran mas recientes y venian de un pequeñisimo
pueblo cercano a Santander y hasta donde sé, sin relación alguna con este
personaje ya que el era oriundo de Cuenca tambien en España.
Espero que tu tengas mas suerte que yo, ya buscaremos las pruebas..
Saludos
Patty
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:06 PM, mendezdelcamino
wrote:
>
> Can Any HELP! Those who have Ruiz de Velasco lines in Los Altos
> the patriarch is Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro married to ANa Núñez
> y Bohórrquez. He is supposed to have been a relative of the Viceroy Luís
> Ruiz de Velasco y Haro or commonly shortened to Luís de Velasco.
> Has anyone made this connection yet or have any info or leads? If
> Pedro was a Velasco y Haro he has to descend from Antonio
> de Velasco, Sñor de salinas and Juana Ruiz de Alarcón. The Ruiz de Velasco
> y Haro last name was created when these two married. I have Pedro born ca.
> 1590
> His uknown father ca. 1560 and his grandfather uknown ca. 1518 and his grt
> grandfather should be Antonio de Velasco and Juana Ruiz de Alarcón. Who
> knows maybe the viceroy was his grandfather anything is possible but we need
> proof. Any leads or info welcomed! -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Hola Patty
Tengo esto,
Commenda of the Order di Santiago with a yield of four thousand scudi was passed on to his grandson or nephew, the son of Luis de Velasco.
Algún Velasco tuvó un ecomienda quizá el sobrino ó el nieto, pero no sé quien es. Pedro Ruiz de Velasco
sí tuvó una ecomienda en Ayo EL Chico, no sé sí Pedro puede ser el nieto del virrey, hijo. Hay una gran posibilidad el tiempo y el lugar es exacto y lo rellena pero buscaré más. Luís, hijo tuvó dos hijos Francisco y Antonio.
Saludos, Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/
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¿Alguien tiene más información acerca de los Ruiz de Velasco? Estoy buscando a los progenitores de doña Marcela Ruiz de Velasco, casada con Miguel Navarro-Gaytán y Navarro-Gaytán, vecino de Ocotlán, Jalisco. En 1808 nació (en Ocotlán) su hija Gertrudis Navarro-Gaytán y Ruiz de Velasco, casada en la misma localidad con don Francisco de Salcedo, hijo de Luis Antonio de Salcedo y Luisa Venancia Salmerón, en el año de 1833.
Gracias y saludos,
Daniel
Greetings To All
My name is Betty Ritchley and like many of you, I have a rich and proud family ancestry based in Zacatecas.
Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, to Valparaiso Zacatecas. Sources to research Borjon connections
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Thank you for taking a look at this.
My husband’s 4th great grandfather was Andres Borjon (b.about 1800-1830), married to Manuela Resendes/Resendez.
SIERRA DE PINOS: Gaspar Gómez de León and Ana de los Reyes, and their links to the Díaz de León and the Santiago families
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Hola prim@s,
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Once again Manny you find those nuggets and then you make sense out of them. Sorry it took so long to give you thanks but you have to admit there are so many of them with twists and curves and same names. Trying to catch up with their information. As Joan Dias de Leon is my 10th grandfather I will now look for any clue to who the daughter is that had Gaspar.
Thanks
Juan Vasques Perea
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Quiero saber si alguien tiene algo de informacion sobre Juan Vasques Perea y si pude ser el mismo Juan Perea mentado en el libro "Fundadores de Nueva Galicia" por Guillermo Garmendia Leal:
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Buscando info sobre Juan Vasques Perea, me encontré con esta pregunta, la cual yace desde 2010.
Retomo la cuestión y la dejo abierta, agradeciendo cualquier tipo de información que pudiera ser de utilidad.
English or Spanish :)
Saludos cordiales.
1775 Puerto of San Francisco of California by Juan De Ayala (pacquebot San Carlos)
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Found this map of the "Puerto de San Francisco" by Juan De Ayala of the pacquebot San Carlos. This is a detailed map of the San Francisco Bay year 1775.
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Here is a document where in 1597 Sebastian Vizcaino discovers pearls off the coast of California.
Reference no: PATRONATO,20,N.5,R.17
To enter in search of this link: http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
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On the Juan De Ayala expedition to the San Francisco Bay area. When he reached point almejas near the entrance to the bay, he had described being greeted by natives that came out in canoes and says they were "hombres y mujeres con su color blanco, pelo rubio, ojos azules."
I had referenced finding this on page 29 year 1775.
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On the Juan De Ayala expedition to the San Francisco Bay area. When he reached point almejas near the entrance to the bay, he had described being greeted by natives that came out in canoes and says they were "hombres y mujeres con su color blanco, pelo rubio, ojos azules."
I had referenced finding this on page 29 year 1775.
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I also been trying to read the Gaspar De Portola Expedition where they arrived to the San Francisco area of California by land on October 31, 1769.
Image 19, recto 17 (ref no. ESTADO,43,N.7)
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/show/64723?fbclid=IwAR0V5…
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Found something interesting. Currently I live in San Mateo, CA. I was just curios and was reading the exploration diary of explore Gaspar De Portola who arrive to the San Mateo area on October 27, 1769.
He describes they came across abandoned dwellings of indigenous peoples. When they went in to browse they were infested with fleas. So the place of the dwellings was named "Rancho De Las Pulgas (fleas)" of San Mateo. Which today is a long hilly street called "Alameda De Las Pulgas" of San Mateo. Where I went to Grammar, Middle and High School at. It is also the area where Tom Brady the quarterback grew up as he went to Catholic School Serra High School that is on on a road that branches off the street Alameda De Las Pulgas.
This archive reference in Pars website is:
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
ESTADO,43,N.7
pages:
bloque2_42_verso_140
bloque 2_43_verso_141
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Here are other maps I had posted earlier but I included the reference numbers so that you can just enter it in the link that is aboveit and view it directly at the source:
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
MP-MEXICO,487
MP-MEXICO,536
MP-MEXICO,305
http://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/dgbrah/i18n/consulta/resultados_busqued…
RAH20101000408 (reference no. for 1770 map of california)
RAH20101000068
Mineral del Favor
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Hello!
Have you ever heard of a rancho or pueblo called Mineral del Favor? could be in Jalisco or Michoacan,
upload
record-image_undefined (13).jpg
(772.02 KB)
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Sorry I was having problems with the file
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PGT9-X?i=301&cc=1874591
Mineral del Favor
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Hello!
Have you ever heard of a rancho or pueblo called Mineral del Favor? could be in Jalisco or Michoacan,
Vasquez de Mercado: Cuquio, Tepatitlan, Nochistlan, and Fresnillo 1600's
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Rick responded to a post I had made in another part of the Forum; however, to prevent that post from going off topic I decided to make its own.
Rick's slightly edited post:
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Hello,
I am following their conversation about the Basques Mercado since I have ancestors with the same last name but I have not been able to place them among the information you have provided on this post.
I am including below the information of the Basques Mercado I have in my family tree in case it helps in any way with your research, or if there is any information you might have about them I would appreciate anything you could share.
A) Juan Basques Mercado (birth before 1725 – died 12/April/1762 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco) married to Anna Contreras. (I don’t know who their ancestors are)
They had 3 kids that I am aware of, listed below- The marriage certificate of each kid states that they were originally from the City of Zacatecas and that they moved to Jalostotitlan around 1749 or 1750):
1) Maria Guadalupe Basques Mercado (born before 1738) married on 11/Jan/1753 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Joseph Sanches (Son of Manuel Sanches and Theresa de Saavedra)
Witnesses: Pedro Gomez, Joseph Gomez, Joseph Placencia
Godparents: Joseph Gonzalez, Anna Munoz
2) Joaquin Basques Mercado (born before 1739) married on 03/Feb/1754 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Anna Xaviera de Mendoza (widow de Guillermo Flores)
Witnesses: Miguel Perez, Joseph Antonio Placencia, Jacinto Casimiro
Godparents: Diego de la Mora, Ignes Mercado
3) Jose Ramon Basques Mercado (born before 1740) married on 22/Nov/1756 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Maria Silveria Alvarez de la Cruz (daughter of Juan Manuel Alvarez de la Cruz and Feliciana de Anda). I descended from this couple.
Witnesses: Joseph Placencia, Joaquin Mercado, Julian Jimenez
Godparents: Joseph Antonio Mercado, Maria Guadalupe Mercado
Another ancestor of this last name is:
B) Maria Mercado (b. 1700-30/Aug/1735 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) married on 15/Feb/1722 in Nochistlan to Nicolas de Loza Hermosillo born 29/Sep/1699 in Jalostotitlan (son of Joseph de Loza and Josefa de Hermosillo)
As per some online websites, this Maria Mercado is listed as the daughter of Juan Bacilio Onofre Basques de Mercado and Ynes Rangel de Acuna but I have not seen any documentation for this yet.
This couple had at least the following kids:
1) Estefana Maria Loza Mercado 19/Jan/1724 (Godparents: Christobal Mercado)
2) Juana Loza Mercado 15/June/1725 (Godparents: Joseph Mercado and Epifania? Sandoval)
3) Joseph Patricio Loza Mercado 30/Mar/1727 (Godparents: Juan Mercado and Angela de Torres)
4) Jose Isidro Loza Mercado 23/May/1728 (Godparents: Cayetano Rodriguez and Catharina de Sandoval)
5) Vicente Loza about 1729
6) Pablo Antonio Loza (b between 1730-1735)
7) Maria Leonor Loza (b between 1730-1735)
Regards,
Minerva
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Just to add more info to the mix, the 1648 padron of Fresnillo has a Beatriz de Acuna viuda probably living next to a Sebastian Mercado cc Maria Bernal? Beatriz has someone living in her home using the surname Rangel as well
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-WSYV?i=420&cat=23…
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Ha! Now searching I can do! Rick, where are you locating wills?
Alex
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Alex,
I can't take credit for finding the will. Another genealogist, Salvador Cabral Valdes, is the researcher that published her will. He did not find it. He wrote that the original discoverer of the will was Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, and that he had provided a copy to genealogists Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada and Leonardo de la Torre y Berumen. He states that Leonardo de la Torre y Berumen passed on a copy to him.
Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada provides the information that the descent is through Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado. I agree with him.
Salvador Cabral Valdes presents the line that skips the generation that includes Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.
I am a descendant of Capitan Sancho de Renteria and Agueda del Rio through my Reynoso-Renteria line that left many descendants in Jalostotitlan and throughout Los Altos de Jalisco. Agueda del Rio wrote "soy hija legítima de Mateo del Río de la Loza y de doña Ana Vázquez de Mercado y Tapia". The Vasquez de Mercado comes from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado, the Tapia from Gines's wife, the daughter of Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia.
The will is dated "20 días del mes de abril de mil y seiscientos y sesenta y cinco años." The will names Sebastian V. de Mercado but does not state how they are related. I found the relationship in another document dated 1642.
She named him here " Y también mando se le paguen a Sebastián de Mercado lo que pareciere por libro de cuenta que le debo".
Thanks again,
Rick
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Ahh Rick I see. I wonder where these other genealogists are finding wills. It must be at the local archive rather than sources available online.
Here is a dispensa I have including a Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado son of Ana Vasquez de Mercado. Hopefully it may be of some use:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L94-GN?i=87&wc=SSKY-MNL%3…
Tree is on image 90
Also check out dispensas 128 and 132 in the Sagrada Mitra Dispensa book
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Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado, son of Pedro Carillo D'avila and Maria Vassque de Mercad, takes in and raises a baby girl that s left on his "" doorstep". It is assumed that this baby girl is Sebastian's born out of wedlock. "Expuesta" is the word used. The Baby is Named Juana Vasquez de Mercado and when she Is of age, she marries a cousin. When she is married, it is acknowledged that she is family and not just adopted.
Rick A. Ricci
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Rick,
What you have found is some very interesting information. At this moment I do not descend from Sebastian but if a link can be found, then the connection would be made to Gines. That would be quite cool!
Alex
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Dear Alex,
I don't descend from Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado. i descend from his niece who mentions him in her will. She authorizes payment of her debt to him. If it hadn't been for you I wouldn't have dug deeper and found out so much information on this family. I believe that the next step in finding your ancestry is to find a will or some document naming Sebastian's children. Since my ancestor owed him money, and he was a Capitan, he most likely left some documentation of his assets and children so eventually it will turn up if we keep searching.
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
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Dear Alex,
I have discoverered how Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado, husband of Leonor Gonzalez Descends from Gines Vasquez de Mercado. more research is needed to confirm if Sebastian's grandson Juan Vasquez de Mercado is the same Juan de Mercado that is married to Ynes Rangel Acuña. Sebastian is actually named in my ancestors testament where she directs a payment to settle her debt to him. In another record he is named in a marriage record for a girl that was raised by him, "expuesta". There is a curveball to the family tree.
Rick A. Ricci
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Rick
I have seen your updates. I will be able to respond later tonight when I can sit down and go through the info you have provided. Thank you for keeping me in the loop with your research!
Alex
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Alex,
I feel fortunate to find a document dated 1624 that identifies Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado's father. There are still two issues.
The first issue is confirming that Juan Vasquez de Mercado married to Ynes Rangel Acuña is the same as juan Vasz de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval.
He second is that wo different parents are given for Sebastian's mother by two genealogists. There is even a third line given by someone here on nuestrosranchos. Both of the genealogies are possible if you look at certain dates, one seems to be more probable than the other. Both of these genealogists have done much work on genealogies specifically to Zacatecas. We may want to continue the discussion offline in order to not confuse the issue even more.
Rick
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Rick,
We have the same data regarding the families of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado (Leonor Gonzalez) and Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado (Pascuala Jiminez) so we are on the same page. Both were from Zacatecas which is a lot closer to Fresnillo than Tepatitlan, Cuquio, and Nochistlan so this may be the trail!
I'm glad that you have been able to connect Sebastian to Gines, that is a very very interesting connection! I'm also very glad that this thread has caused you to go further back on your tree! Congrats!
I don't believe that Juan Vasquez de Mercado, son of Cristobal and Petrona Moscoso y Sandoval is my guy however. He was baptized in 1675.
Antonio Vasquez de Mercado (Maria Plascencia) gave his age as 48 in 1731 placing his birth in 1683. See below and the next page:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT9K-PQ?i=138&wc=3JZV-92S%…
That would imply Juan Vasquez de Mercado (Ines Rangel de Acuna) would have been born at at the latest 1667.
Domingo Vasquez de Mercado (Teresa Plascencia) also had his first child, Miguel, in 1698, baptized in Nochistlan. That would place Domingo's birth at 1683 at the latest and Juan Vasquez de Mercado's birth (Ines Rangel de Acuna) at 1668 at the latest.
Alex
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Alex,
Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado did not use his father's surname, Carillo, and he was the only one from his immediate family to use the surname Vasquez de Mercado amongst the men. The Vasquez de Mercado surname comes from his mother. Nicolas Is most likely older brother of Cristobal Antto. Vasquez de Mercado. So we are still left to wonder who are Juan's parents. But from the Pieces of the puzzle that I possess, Sebastian is either the father or grandfather. Most likely a grandfather. Sebastian is the end of the line for the males with this surname in Fresnillo. Gines 's son Bernardino inherits the family fortune and raises his family in Mexico City.
Gines's daughters inherit the less valuable property in Fresnillo which at one time was well kept up. By the time my ancestor writes her testament the property can use some fixing to restore to its original condition.
Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada. states that Pedro Carillo's wife is Maria Mercado de Vasquez, daughter of Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado, and this is the line that makes the most sense when taking in all the information and the timelines. Others place his wife as an illegitimate daughter of Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia and his sister in law but this line is doubtful. In both cases she descends from Conquistador Bernadino Vasquez de Tapia. But one line bypasses Capitan Gines Vasquez del Mercado.
The reason that people mix up the lines is that there is marriage between very close relatives. Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado's wife is his first cousin. Licienciado Gines Vasquez de Mercado's sister is married to Bernardino Vasquez de Tapia. To top it off, Bernardino is related to Licienciado Gines Vasquez de Mercado's wife, Ines Vasquez. What happens is that people got confused as to how they are related and then screwed up the line. So Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia states that his daughter is married to Gines Vasquez de Mercado and that Gines comes from an honorable family. What he forgets to mention in this statement is how close his daughter is related to her husband since Bernardo is his uncle, besides his father-in-law. We know that Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado is the son of Pedro Carillo D'Avila (senior). If it is correct that his mother is a daughter of Capitan Gines Vazquez de Mercado then Conquistador Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia is her maternal grandfather and great uncle, and she is not his illegitimate daughter as some genealogists claim.
Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada provided clues that I was able to jump on to get the 1624 document that clearly states the name of Sebastian Vasqquez de Mercado's father. What makes this record important is that Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado is still alive at this time.
I believe that Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado may be a son of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado since the rest of the male siblings used Carillo as the surname.
This family has interesting connections as a niece married Hernan Cortez's son, and another family member married into the Jewish Cadena family (treasurer).
I descend from the Vasquez de Mercado line through my Reynoso-Renteria line that is mainly in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
The descent that people have passed down in history was that they descended from Gines Mercado, but what was most important was not descent from Capitan Gines Vasquez Mercado, but from his father el Licienciado Gines Mercado, a very famous medical doctor in Castilla.
Thanks again!
Rick
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Dear Alex,
I was researching the Vasquez de Mercado to help you out. As often happens, when I work on someone else's family from a nuestrosranchos member, I find out that the people that I am looking for are also my relatives. It turns out that the name of a greatgreatgrandchild of Gines Vasquez de Mercado sounded familiar so I went to my computer and looked up her name in my records. It turns out she is my ancestor. I had her info and her husbands but I did not have her ancestry. This project now has become a personal project. Having her as my ancestor will actually help in the search for your ancestor Juan Vasquez de Mercado as they would be anywhere from sibling to third cousin.
I owe you a million thanks for getting me on this project as I previously had no idea that I descended from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.
Rick A. Ricci
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Dear Alex,
I do have a few threads to pull. Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado did leave a at least two daughters in Zacatecas. I have their names and a spouse for each one. I believe that it is most likely we will find your ancestry though the descent of one of these daughters. I will need at least a few days, maybe weeks to pull the threads that will give us more information. I will most likely not get a chance to put in much time until next weekend. The leads do look promising as descendants of the two daughters did marry and left a trail.
Rick A. Ricci
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Looking at the years when the different Juan Vasquez de Mercado were alive, the best fit is tha son of Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval y Delgadillo.
The sons of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval are born at a slightly later time frame then the time frame for the Juan Vasquez de Mercado married to Ynes Rangel de Acuña.
From the reading of the dispensation there is a second "parentesco" through the Mercado line also because of the Moscoso Sandoval y Delgadillo line so I do believe that Juan Vasquez de Mercado that married to Ynes Rangel de Acuña is the son of Christobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval.
Hernando Vasquez de Mercado y Jimenez and Maria Josepha Moscoso Sandoval are the parents of:
1) Diego Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.14/Dec/1678)
2) Pasquala Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandobal (bap.17/Oct/1781)
3) Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 20/Feb/1684)
4) Simon Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 15/Jan/1690)
5) Joseph Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.9/May/1694)
All five siblings were baptized in Nochistlan, Zacatecas.
It turns out that Hernando Vasquez de Mercado and Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado are not brothers as I had suspected. Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado is the son of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado and Leonor Gonzalez. We are getting closer and closer to Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado (d. Before 27/May/1675) and Leonor Gonzalez are the parents of Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez. Cristobal and Petrona's marriage record name their parents and state that Leonor Gonzalez is a widow of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH6F?i=223&wc=3P9N-HZ3%3A1…
Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez (d. 22/July/1721, Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval are the parents of:
1) Christoval Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval
2) Juan Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 26/Dec1675)
3) Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval
4) Jacinto Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandobal (bap. 15/Feb/1682)
5) Leonor Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 26/Apr/1684)
Rick A. Ricci
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Rick, in your string of notes you mention:
5) Joseph Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.9/May/1694)
Do you have any more information on him? I'm trying to determine if there's a link to my tree and I'm particularly interested in who he may have married.
Thanks
Raul
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH5R-1?mode=g&cc=1804458
Fernando Basquez Mercado & Josepha De Moscoso Y Sandobal
Pg28-36
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2D3-Y?i=407&wc=12512705&c…
Juan Ygnacio Vasquez de Mercado (son of Domingo Mercado and Ma.Theresa Plasencia) married Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo.
Josepha Was also a descendant of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal)
Maria Theresa Plasencia descends from Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal) and that is one reason that they needed a dispensation, but there is a second relationship that needs that there is a dispensation so I believe that Domingo also descends from Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal).
Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo is the daughter of Joseph Gutierrez de Hermosillo and Mariana Delgadillo. Mariana Delgadillo is the daughter of Luis Delgadillo and Josepha de Islas. Luis Delgadillo is the son of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal).
Rick A. Ricci
Comment
Dear Alex,
I am not ignoring your request. I did some more research on the Vasquez Mercado family and have come up with possible parents to your Juan. Unfortunately, his middle name is not Bonifacio or Onofre. I would like to look at the dispensations to see How the names are written. Can you send me a link or information to how to get those dispensas?
We do know that his line descends from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado. The family stressed that they descended from him. It was a great honor to descend from him so the family and others would not forget. But Gines's son goes to Mexico City so it seems that the Vasquez de Mercado line continued in Zacatecas with one of the three daughters of Gines. The Vasquez de Mercado family that I am researching may only lead to a grandson or great grandson of Gines unless we can find more information on his daughters.
It is interesting how this family hooks up with some other families from Zacatecas that I have studied.
Rick A. Ricci
Comment
Rick,
Any info you can provide would be great. I would be happy to provide my sources. The only contemporary source I have for the parents of these siblings is the cited marriage record from the original post. This is also the only source I know of giving Ines Rangel de Acuna's name:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K79G-JK?mode=g&i=78&wc=3JD…
The remainder of my sources are dispensas. The majority of the dispensa's give the name Juan. Here is the links to the dispensas were the pertinent info is:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X7LQ-7?mode=g&i=224&wc=SS2…
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6KCC-K?mode=g&i=1107&wc=SS…
Here are two dispensas with the name Juan Bacilio:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6P3N-DM?mode=g&i=739&cc=18…
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6P3H-4N?mode=g&i=800&wc=SS…
And one dispensa with the name Onofre:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6Y9R-F1?i=680&wc=3J4Q-168%…
Let me know if additional sources on the descendants are needed. These are all of the sources I have for Juan Vasquez de Mercado and Ines Rangel de Acuna. Thank you for any assistance that anyone can provide.
Alex
Comment
Dear Alex,
I think I found something, but it may be just wishful thinking on my part. If I just tell you then you may end up seeing what I may just be imagining. Take another look at the first link that you sent me. The name is Jn with a raised o meaning Juan or as it is sometimes written in those times Johan. But just before the Surname Mercado there is a scribbling. The scribbling is not V for Vasquez. I think I figured out the scribbling but want you to look at it before I tell what I think it says. If we agree on the scribbling then I can tell you who I believe his parents are.
Rick A. Ricci
Comment
Rick,
I am interested in your thoughts; however, I see Ju* de Mercado where * is a raised "o", for both father and son.
I've been attemping to follow the Gines Vasquez de Mercado leads. I havent found the daughters but I found the son Bernardino Vasquez de Mercado which had a son named Gines as well. It appears this Gines had some children in Mexico City.
Alex
Comment
Dear Alex,
I don't see "de". The "de" that he writes in other places is different. Please take another look. If you still think it is de then I am just wishing that it is another abbreviation.
The furthest that I have gone back on the Vasquez Mercado family in Zacatecas is Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado married to Pasquala Jimenez. Nicolas and Pasquala are the parents of Hernando Vasquez de Mercado y Ximenez.
Hernando Vasquez de Mercado is married to Maria Josepha Moscoso de Sandoval y Delgadilo. (Daughter of Diego de Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Josepha Delgadillo)
Petrona Moscoso Sandoval, also a daughter of Diego Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Josepha Delgadillo, married Cristoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado.
I believe that two brothers married two sisters and that Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado is also a son of Nicolas. More research is needed to confirm this.
Cristoval Antonio Vasquez and Petrona Vasquez de Mercado are the parents of at least five children. One of them is named Juan Vasquez de Mercado. Another is named Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado.
Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado and Maria Torres are the parents of Juan Christoval Vasquez de Mercado (aka. Jn* Ct* Mercado). ( * stands for a raised o)
Diego Moscoso Sandoval is the son of Juan de Moscoso Sandoval and Catalina Cortez (daughter of Geronima Benavides)
Maria Josepha Delgadillo is the daughter of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal)
Hernando Vasquez de Mercado
Spouse's Name Ma.Josepha Moscoso Sandobal
Event Date 10 Mar 1678
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado
Mother's Name Pascuala Ximenes
Spouse's Father's Name Diego de Moscoso Sandoval
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Josepha Delgadillo
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXD-1DJ : 16 July 2015), Pascuala Ximenes in entry for Hernando Basques and Josepha De Moscosso Sanndobal, 10 Mar 1678; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,724.
Rick A. Ricci
Jewish Lineage of Dr Geronimo de Orozco and Beatriz Tello de Lomas (Sandoval)
Forums
We descend from Dr Geronimo de Orozco and Beatriz Tello de Lomas (Sandoval). I cam across an interesting article called Jewish Presence in Los Altos de Jalisco. You can read it here:
1651 Padron of Nochistlan. Where is it?
Forums
I have both of Sergio Gutierrez's books "Los Altos de Jalisco" Vol I & II. Vol I contains a census for Nochistlan in 1649 and Vol II has on for Nochistlan in 1664.
Comments
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This is the Padron 1649 from Nochistlan if this is what you are looking for.
Padrones, Caja 48 letra-M, 1649-1954
Film # 100563753
Starts at image 31.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99KJ-T91Z?i=30&cat=230…
The 1664 is on same film.
Starts on image 61.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99KJ-TSND?i=60&cat=230…
Datos sobre Joseph Nicolás de Aceves y Ma. Gertrudis Navarro
Forums
Hay alguien por ahí en NR que sepa quienes son los padres de Joseph Nicolás de Aceves y Ma. Gertrudis Navarro .
Comments
Comment
su padre fue Juan
Manuel de Aceves
Comment
Gracias!!
Tienes algo mas???
Opinions on sites to do your family tree in
Forums
I have all my family tree info in Family search, since it was the first site I used when I started working on my tree last year.
Comments
Comment
I have Ancestry and it's very good, it's free and you can have it private to I have Barbosas in my family my 8th grandparents were Diego Antonio De Barbosa
1662–1715 Cocula Jalisco and Juana De Partida take care dear it's very nice to share
Comment
Hi Gaby, since the beginning, I decided to use genealogy software on my computer. I've been using Rootsmagic for six years and I love it. You can try their free software here
http://rootsmagic.com/Essentials/
, which is a stripped down version of the full version, but it has all the basics , so you can see if you like it. If you want to get the full version, is only 29.95 dollars.
I do all my data entry, pictures, documents, etc on my PC, then I publish it online using TNG which is software that runs on a website
http://www.tngsitebuilding.com/
it's only 32.99
Using Rootsmagic, I export my tree. It generates a gedcom file which I upload to my TNG website, then using Filezilla, I upload all the new media, and that's it.
Comment
I use Wikitree. It's free and never goes down. Plus your information is always there and won't disappear when you stop paying like Ancestry, since Wikitree is free. My tree has been here for years:
https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Alonso-Family-Tree-154
Danny
Comment
Hi Gaby,
I have also wondered what the more experienced genealogists use. I started with Ancestry because it was easier to add information, add attachments and make changes but it did get expensive to keep and I saw myself searching for documents on family search. So I cancelled my subscription with them. Now I keep it on family search but it’s not your private family tree and anyone can make changes to it. I have noticed I lost people’s names I added. I would love to see what the more experienced people use. Hopefully someone will share with us what they use.
Thanks
Esther
Comment
For full control of your tree you may want to consider buying and using a product such as RootsMagic 7 instead of using online sites.
Comment
Hi mr alavarez,
Thank you, do you use this software?
Thank you,
Esther
Comment
For a time I did use it, yes. When I first started out a few years ago I wasn’t very organized or focused. I would research multiple lines at once and get lost, and my research was spread out across many pages of handwritten notes in manila folders, Excel files, folders of downloaded digital scans on multiple USB drives, emails, web browser bookmarks, and photocopies of texts and documents. It got to be overwhelming.
I considered building my family tree online, but just like you I wanted a great degree of control over it. I looked at various family history products before settling on RootsMagic. It was very affordable and it contained tools for analyzing my findings and for producing various types of reports and charts. At that time it was exactly what I needed to help me get organized and to make sense of my work, especially once I began working on the family trees of others. These days I don't rely on it so much, unless I start a new family history project.
I hope this helps and that you find the solution you’re looking for.
Comment
oh my gosh that is great information and thank you for recommending it and sharing. Some of the things you mention sound like me and I’m all over the place because I’m so excited but I need to learn to focus on one family. That was great advise for us beginners. I down loaded it and it already looks easy friendly.
Many thanks,
Esther
Testamentos in XVIII century
Dear prim@s:
I have seen records of wills on Family Search for Jalisco, but I am wondering if there is an index somewhere, or anyone has done any work on these? let's say if a death records shows that the person left a will, what are the chances of finding it? and if so, which resources could I use to do so?
Thank you in advance
Gaby B.
Comments
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Unfortunately there is not an index that I am aware of. They are great sources and at some point, it would be great if we could put a group together to index them the way we've done with Guadalajara Dispensas and Valladolid Dispensas. Same can be said for the Archivo de Instrumentos Publicos, that stores the information about land ownership. Most of it is now online, but not yet indexed. Actually, that one does have an index, found here: Film # 007984423
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-534Y-9?i=11&cat=2…
but the index does not correspond with familysearch microfilm numbers or order at all. It will give you an idea for who is in the documents though.
Hope this helps!
Sergio Salés
Comment
I noticed that on that index after the Libros it continues with Legajos en then it goes into multiple books at once which is really confusing. Also, some of the films in Tierras y aguas say legajos sueltos and they're not in the index. Do you know what to make of that?
Comment
Hi,
I worked on index that you mentioned (FIL# 269867) so far I have the following films identified:
FILM # VOLUME #
277579 VOL 1
270080 VOL 2
277581 VOL 3
277582 VOL 4
277583 VOL 5
277584 VOL 6
277585 VOL 7
277586 VOL 8
277587 VOL 9
277588 VOL 10
277590 VOL 12
277591 VOL 13
277592 VOL 14
I hope this helps
Sus L
SIERRA DE PINOS - Francisco de Cardona y Magdalena de Caravajal
Forums
Hola prim@s,
Comments
Comment
Thank you for your information it help decipher this problem for me. The marriage record (1st record top right) at its ending adds este Juan de Contreras and then Leonor Mojica, I thought maybe they were padrinos and just left it at that until your information. I took a second look and it was vi udo {de} Leonor Mojica.
Juan de Cardona (vuido de peres Mojica)
1620–Deceased • L5TG-P2Q
Teresa de Contreras
1654–Deceased • LTWG-8PX
Marriage: 8 May 1672
Sagrario, San Luis Potosi, San Luis Potosi, Mexico
Comment
Hi Sarod,
You are correct. And I just noticed that I neglected to include his second marriage to Teresa de Contreras, 8 May 1672 in Sagrario, SLP. Thank you for sharing.
Leonor Perez de Mojica was daughter of Hernan Perez de Mojica and Maria de Ortega, and granddaughter of Juan Diaz de Leon El Viejo cc Francisca de Ortega. She was widow of Baltasar de Armas, who she married 9 Feb 1644, in Pinos.
Also, before he married Leonor Mojica, Juan de Cardona had an illegitimate son named Diego Zapata, who petitioned marriage with Beatriz Rodriguez Soto on 5 Jul 1660, in San Matias, Pinos.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Comment
Hola Danny,
En beinte y tres de otubre de mil y quᵒˢ y nobenta y quatro años (…) despose y di las bendiciones nunpciales en la ermita de Nra Señora de Monserate a Joan darmas rresidente en el pueblo de Tezontepeque natural de las Yslas de Canaria hijo de Andres Garcia y de Leonor de Armas naturales de la dicha ysla con Leonor de Cardona hija de Franco Rramon de Cardona y de Leonor de Viguellas vzᵒˢ desta ciudad siendo tᵒˢ Francᵒ Enriqz y Joan Alvares y Joan de la Cruz y Bartolome de Salinas.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX9Q-5?i=338&wc=3P8Q-6…
Happy New Year to you!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Comment
Hola prim@s,
I need to backtrack here. I can’t find in my notes where I have it verified that Francisco de Cardona was the son of Francisco Ramon de Cardona and Leonor de Villegas. My linking him to them might still be premature, and conjecture, based on coinciding names & surnames, locations and timelines. If anyone does have proof of this connection, please share!
I don’t descend from these lines, but during my research, I have found plenty of bits and pieces of information on members of these families, since they were compadres of my ancestors. I started putting these pieces together, and saw some possible links, and came out with the pedigree that I gave earlier in this thread. I am sorry that I jumped the gun, and presented what I had found as documented fact, but there are still some pieces missing. I thought I’d throw what I do have out there, to show how I came about this proposed pedigree, for those of you who do descend from them, so you can at least have some leads.
FRANCISCO DE CARDONA & LEONOR DE ARMAS
What I do have confirmed, is that there is a familiar link between Francisco de Cardona cc Magdalena de Caravajal, and Leonor de Armas, aka Leonor de Cardona, who was married to Pedro de Vargas Moriano. This is established in the 15 Apr 1656 IM of the latter’s daughter, Ana de Vargas Moriano, to Nicolas de Castañeda y Sotomayor. The first witness presented was Miguel de Cardona, age 34, who was son of Francisco de Cardona and Madalena de Caravajal. He calls the bride “his niece,” and refers to himself as “her uncle.” The common surname is "Cardona," and the connection would be through the bride’s mother, Leonor de Armas aka Cardona, who was either his sister, his aunt, or his cousin.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B716-G?i=180&wc=3PS9-W…
JUAN DE ARMAS & LEONOR DE LA VEGA
In his entry for Juan de Armas, on p. 47 of his “Diccionario Biografico,” RMB mentions Juan de Armas’ 1616 marriage to Leonor de la Vega Cortés, and the 25 Jun 1618 baptism of their daughter, Leonor de Armas. And then, in a footnote, he says that daughter Leonor was married to Pedro de Vargas Moriano, and how in some documents, she and her mother are called “Leonor de Cardona.” I don't agree that Leonor de Armas, baptized in June 1618, is the same who married Pedro de Vargas, and I'll explain why in the next paragraph, but make note of what he says, about how she and her mother were both called "Leonor de Cardona."
LEONOR DE ARMAS Y CARDONA & PEDRO DE VARGAS
According to the San Matias Pinos parish archives, Pedro de Vargas and Leonor de Armas confirmed their daughter, Maria de Vargas, on, on 26 Jan 1627. Her compadre was Francisco de Çapata.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BK3K-H?i=15&wc=3PS3-HZ7
On 22 Oct 1629, baptized was Francisco, hijo de Francisco de Cardona y de Madalena de Caravajal. Padrinos were Pedro de Vargas y Leonor de CARDONA su mujer.
If Leonor de Armas y Cardona was baptized in Jun 1618, she would’ve been 8 1/2 years-old when her daughter was confirmed, and 11 years-old (and already married), when a madrina in 1629. Not likely. To be the mother of the girl confirmed on 26 Jan 1627, she had to be born well before 1613, in which case, she is not the same Leonor de Armas, baptized in Jun 1618. She could’ve been an earlier daughter - it wasn’t unusual for parents to give the same name to 2 living children. But Juan de Armas and Leonor de la Vega didn’t marry until 1616; previous to that, Leonor de la Vega was married to Juan Tamayo. So, either Leonor de Armas aka Cardona is not the daughter of Juan de Armas, or she's his daughter from an earlier marriage, possible with a woman surnamed "Cardona."
JUAN DE ARMAS & LEONOR DE CARDONA
On a whim, I ran a quick search at FamilySearch and WHAM! There’s Juan “Darmas,” marrying Leonor de Cardona on 23 Oct 1594, in Mexico City. Daughter of Francisco Ramon de Cardona and Leonor de Villegas.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX9Q-5?i=338&wc=3P8Q-6…
My head spun! What if?? Is this the same Juan de Armas?? If it is, then, there she is: the mother of Leonor de Armas, aka Leonor de Cardona, and her name is Leonor de Cardona! And there's the Francisco de Cardona connection: he's her brother! Thus, his son, Miguel de Cardona, would be 1st-cousin of her daughter, Leonor de Armas, and 1st-cousin/once removed of her daughter, Ana de Vargas Moriano. In the parlance of the era, Miguel de Cardona could have called Ana de Vargas Moriano his “niece.”
JUAN DE ARMAS & FRANCISCO DE CARDONA
RMB has both of these men as early residents of SLP. As mentioned, I found them both, on 3 Mar 1597, buying 28 mules from Alonso Jimenez, so we know that the 2 men had contact.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SZN1?i=52&wc=MXBY…
As I read this bill of sale for the first time, I could see the pieces all falling into into place: Juan de Armas and Leonor de Cardona marry in 1594, then move to SLP before 1597, accompanied by her brother, Francisco de Cardona. The 2 men go into business together, and invest in pack mules. Sometime before 1616, Leonor de Cardona dies, and Juan de Armas marries Leonor de la Vega en 2os.
Like I said, this is speculation. The testamento of Juan de Armas or Francisco de Cardona should clarify it.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Comment
I found the source for this relationship, in the extracts that Mary Lou Montagna did during her visits to Pinos, Zac, in the 1990’s:
"Francº de Cardona natˡ de la ciudad de Mexico hijo lexᵐº de Francº Ramon de Cardona y Leonor de Villegas casado que fue con Magda de Carabajal Testo Fueron sus albaseas Jů de Cardona y Miguel de Cardona sus hijos y Magda de Carabajal"
Redeemed!!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Comment
can you share the link to the source?
Comment
Hola isloera,
I found Francisco de Cardona’s burial record among the extractions that Mary Lou Montagna did from the books at San Matias, Pinos. She scanned all of her notes to PDF, and uploaded them to her dropbox, which can be accessed here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Comment
Thank you so much for your reply! Could you point me to the right folder or document?, there are many. Excuse my ignorance, I've seen Mary Lou Montagna mentioned repeatedly, but I can't find any information about her. She's clearly a very important genealogist and researcher.
Comment
Dear Manny,
I enjoyed reading your essay. It was a nice gift to receive on Día De los Reyes.
Thank you for sharing your work. It is greatly appreciated.
Happy New Year,
Rick A. Ricci
Comment
Hola a los dos:
En los registros de ésta familia aparecen dos Magdalenas de Caravajal, en los registros de Familysearch aparece sólo una, que podría ser la mayor, pero de momento no hay forma de asegurar que pertenezca a ésta línea familiar.
"México, Distrito Federal, registros parroquiales y diocesanos, 1514-1970", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ8B-MS7M : 28 July 2015), Madalena de Caravajal de la Torre, 1553.
En el Siglo XVI había dos ramas de ésta familia en la Ciudad de México:
1. Los descendientes del conquistador Antonio de Carvajal, originarios de Zamora, que vivían en la calle de San Francisco, los cuales se extendieron hacia Michoacán y el Occidente de México.
2. Los descendientes del conquistador Juan de Carvajal "El Viejo", posiblemente originarios de Zamora y relacionados con los anteriores, que vivían también en la calle de San Francisco en la ciudad de México, pero las tierras las recibieron en Tulancingo, ésta familia se dedicó a la minería y se extendió por los estados de Hidalgo y Guanajuato.
En contraste la rama de los descendientes de Juan de Limpias Carvajal vivían en Puebla y tenían las tierras en Oaxaca, luego pasaron a Querétaro. En tanto que los Caravajal de Nochistlán, Zacatecas proceden de la rama de Cáceres, su genelogía está en Geneanet en el árbol de sathazagthot, donde aparecen los ascendientes de Rodrigo Carvajal Ulloa.
Saludos
Marcelina
MORE "LOST" SAN MATIAS SIERRA DE PINOS
Forums
Hola prim@s,
Comments
Comment
Manny,
Thank you so much for the information. I have 2 lines in Sierra de Pinos.
I'm a little confuse. The PDF that was summited to the group a few days ago (the index), some of the records in this index are in film 221879 (from Lagos). Am i right??
Thank you so much again. I truly appreciate all your work in this area
saludos
susana L
Comment
Hola Susana,
They are entirely different books. As far as I can tell, none of the baptism nor marriage entries are duplicates. I’m not sure about the confirmations, since there are so many, but I doubt if they are. And no burial records appear among the records I indexed, so the ones on 221879 are unindexed.
Which families do you descend from?
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Comment
Hola Manny,
Thank you so much for the information about Sierra de Pinos.
Now regarding my lines, so far I have in Sierra de Pinos:
1. Pedro de Salas married with Juana de Bonilla
2. Marcos Gregorio Guillen married with Maria Simona Bacilia (indians or mulatos not sure yet the Hacienda el Pedregozo) around 1750
3. Eleuterio de Jesus Zacarias married with Eusebia de Rosa casilda (also indians or mulatos not sure yet from Hacienda El Lobo) around 1750
Aas you can imagine line #2 and #3 are the difficult ones. I believe those records you just found will be very helpful.
Thank you again
sus
Comment
Hola Susana,
You’re welcome, re: the indexing and all.
Here’s what I have on Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla. According to Jaime Holcombe in his Letters (p 185), they were from Ciudad de Zacatecas. I have them first appearing in Pinos in Feb 1645, when one of their criados baptized a child. They were living on the Estancia de Santa Cruz, which he’s named as the owner of in a wedding in May 1645 (Santa Cruz was owned previously by Padre Pedro Lazaro, the vicar of San Matias Pinos, who inherited it from his sister, Leonor Xuarez).
The children of Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla are:
1. Catalina de Salas, b. Zacatecas, Zac; m. Andres Ramirez de Cueva (from Lagos), im 03 Nov 1650, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
2. Matiana de Salas Bonilla, b. 10 Oct 1645, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
3. Nicolas de Salas Bonilla, b. 01 Jan 1654, San Matias, Pinos, Zac
4. Juana de Salas Bonilla, b. 11 Dec 1653, San Matias, Pinos, Zac
There were probably more, seeing how there is a gap between 1645 & 1654 - you might want to check in Sagrario, San Luis Potosi. Which of their children do you descend from? I’ll keep my eyes open.
As you mentioned, couples 2 & 3 will be more difficult, since they were either Indios or Mulatos. If they lived in the mid-1700’s, I’m not sure if you’ll locate them in the indexes nor in the Lagos book, since those are early 1600’s. Pedregozo - I don’t recall seeing that hacienda in the early records, so I think it was founded later, maybe after 1700. I’d recommend that you keep searching in San Matias, Pinos; search the IM’s and the burials. If #3 lived on El Lobo, keep searching in San Matias, Pinos, and maybe in Asientos, Ags, since it was close by.
I hope that helps!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Comment
Manny,
Thank you so much for the information about Pedro de Salas. I have the following children
1. Catalina (same information that you have)
2. Joseph Vicente de Salas marriage information 25 jan 1663 Marina de Zabala, San Matias, Pinos, Zac
3. I didn't have a Matiana or Nicolas or Juana. Thank you! Where are those records? I looked I could't find a microfilm or in the photocopies from Mary Lou? Are those in lagos?
4. Maria de Salas wife of Pedro del Muro. They emmigrated to Parral Chihuahua (when the mines were opening there, MIna de San Francisco). They had children there Pedro del Muro (21 feb 1637) and Juan del Muro Salas (15 sept 1638). Maria de Salas died shortly after Pedro del Muro (29 sept 1639) leaving at 3 children orphans (I just have 2 , I dont know the name of the third one but the 3 of them were minors, I'm sure very small). This is the line I come from. All the information from this line is in ARCHIVO SAN JOSE HIDALGO DEL PARRAL, cHIHUAHUA. I found the court document signed by Pedro de Salas in 1640. He said he was living in Aguascalientes.
5. Clerigo Juan de Salas. He went to pick up the children from Maria, with a letter from Pedro de Salas (the grandfather). I would love to find more information about Juan de Salas (orden sacerdotal).
As you can see this line is very interesting.
Please keep me posted if you find anything else.
saludos y gracias
sus leniski
Comment
Thanks Manny looking forward to your EBook!
Balcorta
Forums
Hi my name is Stephanie Mendoza-Terrell,
Comments
Comment
Hello Stephanie,
Subject:
Jacinta Balcorta Martz.
Baptized 28 Aug 1870
EL SAGRARIO OR SANTO DOMINGO,ZACATECAS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Image page #200
Source Image link: https://familysearch.org/das/v2/3:1:939J-64SZ-4G/dist.jpg?ctx=CrxCtxPub…
Parents: Francisco Balcorta ad Rosalia Martinez (Martz)
Paternal grandparents: Rafael Balcorte and Maria Refugio Marcario
Rafael Balcorte’s parents are Juan Bautista Balcorte and Maria De La Luz Garcia (This couple is from San Luis Potosí)
Juan Bautista (Baptista) is the son of José Matias Balcorta and Juana Petra B.?
Maria De La Luz Garcia is the daughter of Jose Eusebio Garcia and Maria Josefa Delgado (Gil?)
Maria Refugio Marcario is the daughter of, depending on the record, (1) Gregorio Marcario and Apolonia Lopez, or (2) Apolonio Marcario and Gregoria Lopez.
Maternal grandparents: Susano (Luciano?) Martinez And Brígida Ruiz? Rivas?
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Pablo Sanchez Tinajero
Baptized 12 Jun 1869
FRESNILLO DE GONZALEZ ECHEVERRIA,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Parents: Dario Sanchez Carillo and Elena Tinajero Soriano
Family tree link:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LTFG-VQM
Through Pedro you descend from Lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma (descent from Moctezuma II). I have done much work on this line.
I couldn’t find a marriage record.
Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci
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Thank you so much. I do know of Francisco Balcorta and Rosalia Martinez, however the dates are a little off. My grandmothers (Jacinta's daughter) birth certificate and a 1910 census states that Jacinta Balcorta was born in approximately 1874. Do you think they may have gotten the dates wrong? I do think that is her family but I've never been sure.
Do you have any other information about Jacinta? maybe a death certificate? I found 4 birth certificates for children she had in California with Pablo Sanchez.
Pablo Sanchez remarried in 1914 to Cornelia Samaniego. As far as I know Cornelia was his cousin.
I am going to research all the names you gave me. I appreciate your help.
Stephanie
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The clues that I followed were the records of the children and grandchildren so the information that I posted is correct. It is common for there to be a small discrepancy in dates when records are “approximate”.
Rick A. Ricci
DIEGO ROMO DE VIVAR & MARIANA DE VILLALOBOS
Forums
Estimados colegas,
Suplico su ayuda en sobre una rama que tengo introncada.
Comments
Comment
Steven,
Esta pareja aún sigue siendo un misterio para mí. Espero que haya otro miembro del foro que nos puede ayudar. Sí noté que te falta una hija llamada Margarita Romo de Vivar. La cual se casó el 15 de enero de 1741 con Cristóbal Gómez de Cornejo en Jalostotitlán. Este caballero era originario de la Ciudad de Méjico, siendo hijo legítimo de Francisco Gómez y Mariana Ramírez. Creo que el Cornejo entra por el lado materno, que pudiera ser Ramírez Cornejo, una familia vinculada estrechamente con las familias de Jalostotitlán.
Matrimonio de Cristóbal y Margarita:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYHN?i=440&cc=1874591&…
Saludos,
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Comment
The Ramirez, Gomez, and Cornejo families intermarried repeatedly in the 1600’s and 1700’s . Through marriage dispensations we are able to disentangle the endogamy. I descend from many of these marriages.
Rick A. Ricci
Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia
Anyone know of where I can get copies of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, or who may be willing to part with their set?
marty
Comments
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Esther,
Retoños translates to shoots or sprouts. The title of Mariano González Leal’s book, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, could be translated to something like, Spanish Sprouts (descendants) in New Galicia.
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Thank you for explaining and translating. ;-)
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There might have been a newer post about someone offering copies, but this is the only conversation I found. However, I went to the library and had them ordered. I was not prepared for the size of the volume (s) some have two and they only let you have one Tomo at a time, for a limited time with no extra time given. So if you know someone close by who is also interested he/she can order them as well. together you both would have a better chance to review the volume(s).
This was a conversation about them.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24079
Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia
Tomo 1 Estudios Histórico, antropológico, genealógico y biográfico sobre la población española de la zona oriental de la Nueva Galicia, desde su establecimiento en la región hasta nuestros días
> Tomo 2 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (ABALZA-CANO)
> Tomo 3 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (CARLIN-GARCIA DE CUEVAS)
> Tomo 4 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GARCIA DE HERMOSILLO-GONZALEZ DE LARIS)
> Tomo 5 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GONZALEZ DE RUVALCABA-GUILLEN)
> Tomo 6 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GUTIERREZ-HURTADO DE MENDOZA)
> Tomo 7 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (HURTADO DE MENDOZA-MANSO DE ZUÑIGA)
> Tomo 8 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (MARENTES-NANDIN DE SOTO)
> Tomo 9 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (NAVARRETE Y ARGOTE-RAMIREZ DE MENDOZA)
> Tomo 10 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (RAMIREZ DE OLIVAS-ZUBIETA)
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Hi, what are Retoños? I used google translate but i doubt it actually means "suckers".
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Really? i can order them from a library? Does it have to be a specific library or will my county library be able to order it?
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Danny you can go to your public library where they will help you with information to order one of the book or books in that volume. All you need is your library card and a library who is willing to lend it to you. I had the University of Chicago, but I had to wait a long time for each volume/s. I pretty much have ordered quite a number of different other books, unfortunately not many libraries are willing to share there collections. However when you are in college we use to have a special code to get articles and books in the college library. Good Luck.
You can go to worldcat to see which places have the collection near you. You will need some of the following information to order it.
https://www.worldcat.org
Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia
Author: Mariano González-Leal; Jalisco (Mexico). Secretaría General de Gobierno.
Publisher: Guadalajara, Jalisco, México : Gobierno de Jalisco, Secretaría General de Gobierno, Dirección de Publicaciones, <2010>-2011.
Edition/Format: Print book : Biography : State or province government publication : Spanish : 1a edView all editions and formats
Rating:
(not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first.
Subjects
Nueva Galicia -- Genealogy.
Spaniards -- Mexico -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogy.
Spaniards.
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Alas,
the only copy I can find is in Southern California. The cost is $760.00.
too rich for my blood. I even contacted the author and he said to just grab that last copy.
I tried to email again but no response. A large library on www.worldcat.org is your best bet to locate a copy of the ten volume set.
Comment
I would be interested in a copies also. Or for the very least renting copies or something along those lines.
Carlos
Martín de Ybarra casado con Ynes de Solís
Forums
Compañeros que tal. Busco información de Martin de Ybarra Casado con Dña. Ynes de Solís. En el Testamento de Joseph de Ybarra señala ser hijo de ambos.
Comments
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Saludos Francisco!
Ojala nos podemos ayudar en nuestra investigación de los Ibarra (Ybarra) de la zona de Chapala. No sabía que Martin Ibarra fue casado con Ines de Solis. No sé si tú has visto la dispensa por el matrimonio de Jose Teodoro Ibarra Quiñones y Lorenza de Siordia Zepeda. Alex y yo apenas habíamos empezado hablar sobre esta y otra dispensa (relacionada con la familia Plasencia) aquí: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18788?page=3
Esencialmente, hay dos dispensas que nos dan dos árboles de parentesco:
Agundis-Mondragon dispensa:
Tronco Desconocido
Pedro de Plasencia el Viejo c. Mariana Aceves - 1 - Unknown Plasencia c. Ana Diaz Ibarra
Maria de Plasencia c. desconocido - 2 - Mariana de Plasencia c. Nicolas de Siordia
Maria de Plasencia etc. c. Francisco Agundis - 3 - Gertrudis Mondragon (pretensa)
Leandro de Agundis (pretenso) – 4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K93-SK?i=400&wc=12512…
Ibarra-Siordia dispensa:
Tronco: Francisco de Ibarra c. Catalina Diaz (quien uno de los testigos “conoció bien”)
Martin de Ibarra c. Ines de Solis - 1 - Ana Diaz Ibarra c. desconocido Plasencia
Jose de Ibarra c. Francisca de Quiñones - 2 - Mariana de Plasencia c. Nicolas de Siordia
Jose Teodoro de Ibarra (pretenso) - 3 - Jose de Siordia c. Nicolasa de Zepeda
..... - 4 - Lorenza de Siordia (pretensa)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6R9D-MK?i=47&cc=1874591
Así que los padres de Martin de Ibarra fueron Francisco de Ibarra y Catalina Diaz. Ojala esto puede ser útil para ti. No he podido encontrar más sobre esta pareja. Tal vez tú has visto algo?
Especulación:
Es posible que Catalina Diaz Barron c. Juan de Moya (los padres de mi ancestro Bartolome de Moya c. Aurelia Hurtado de Mendoza Flores quienes tuvieron descendientes en Ayo el Chico y Arandas) fue la hija de Francisco de Ibarra y Catalina Diaz. Creo que su hijo Jose de Moya fue el vicario of Chapala al fin del siglo XVII y que tuvieron una hija Antonia que a veces uso el apellido Ibarra. Aparecen los Moya como padrinos en los registros de Chapala, incluso como padrinos de unos de los hijos de Jose de Ibarra y Francisca Quiñones.
Tambien pienso que Juana Diaz Mondragon c. Pedo Castellanos Vera y Sandoval (tambien mi ancestro) pudo ser hija de Nicolas de Siordia y Mariana Plasencia, tomando en cuenta su uso de los apellidos Diaz y Mondragon. El Diaz parece ser apellido importante, ya que también hay un Cristobal Diaz en Chapala quien caso primo una india llamada Maria y en segundas con Antonia de Santillan Gaytan Arriola. Tuvieron una hija llamada Clara de Ibarra quien caso con Antonio de Siordia, hijo de padres no conocidos en Chapala. Cristobal puede ser un nieto de Francisco de Ibarra y Catalina Diaz.
Unas preguntas restantes:
De quien es la Información Matrimonial de 1694 que señala la edad de Jose de Ibarra? Serias dispuesto compartir una transcripción del testamento de Jose de Ibarra? Encontre parte en los partidos de defunción de Chapala, pero no dice mucho.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X897-W5?i=18&wc=3J4J-Y…
Conoces algo sobre la esposa de Jose de Ibarra o algo sobre la familia Siordia de Chapala?
Gracias de antemano!
Richard Ibarra
Comment
Estimado Richard. Un Gusto saludarte. Gusto me da que en cosa de un momento me hayas ayudado bastante con mi árbol. Te comento.
En la Biblioteca Publica del Estado de Jalisco, Ramo Civil, Real Audiencia, caja 32, expediente 1, año 1718-19 se localiza el expediente que contiene los autos por los bienes de Joseph de Ybarra y Francisca Quiñones. El testamento que aparece en los archivos parroquiales de Chapala es solo la parte del testamento que le concierne a la iglesia. www.ancestry.mx/interactive/60017/MM9.3.1_2FTH-1-18431-31704-83/713797?…:
Este es testamento de don Joseph de Ybarra con algunas partes omitidas por ser contenido protocolario. (Ortografia original)
En resumen dice: yo Joseph de Ybarra español y vecino desta provincia de abalos hijo legitimo de martin de Ybarra y de doña Ynes de Solis mis padres ya difuntos, estando enfermo en cama dela enfermedad que dios nuestro señor a sido servido de enviarme, pero en mi entero juicio y cumplida memoria. Creyendo como fírmeme.te creo en el misterio de la santísima Trinidad… Hago y ordeno este mi testamento y ultima Voluntad en la forma y manera siguiente. Lo primero Encomiendo mi alma a dios nuestro señor que la Crio y Redimio con el infinito presio de su sangre y el cuerpo A la tierra que fue formado y mando que cuando la voluntad de nuestro señor fuere servido a llevarme desta presente Vida la eterna,mi cuerpo sea amortajado con el havito y querda de nuestro seráfico Padre San Fran.co para ganar las gracias indulgencias que están concedidas a quien lo lleva, el cual sea sepultado en la Yglesia parochia del pueblo de Clapala o en donde mi muerte sucediere en la parte o lugar que mis albaceas les pareciere el cual sea con toda humildad y sin pompa ninguna,---
Ytem mando que el dia de mi entierro si fuera hora competente se me diga una missa cantada …..
Ytem declaro tener a don Joan Castellanos y Gonzalez vecino de la ciudad de guadalaxara cantidad de pesos qie constaran por su libro de quentas … y mando se le pague lo que se le deviere----
Ytem declaro no deber a persona ninguna ningunos reales…
Ytem declaro que a un indio del pueblo de santana que no me acuerdo de su nombre le soy deudor de dos reales…
Ytem declaro por mis vienes la casa de mi morada que tengo en este pueblo( Rayado) Valle de Chapala con las alaxas que ai en ella.
Ytem declaro por mis vienes la ropa de mi vestir armas silla y freno todo bien tratado.
Ytem declaro por mis bienes una esclava llamada Josepha con dos hijos suios el uno llamado Joan y el otro Ysidro declaro por tal mis esclavos.
Ytem declaro por mis vienes cantidad de ciento y veinte reses pocas mas omenos de hierro y algunos bueyes.
Ytem declaro por mis vienes como treinta vestias cavallares de hierro, con mas quince o diez i seis mulas de carga y de cilla algunas de ellea aparexadas…
Yten declaro por mis vienes a quinze cavallos mansos.
Ytem Declaro por mis bienes dos redes de algodón con que se pesca en la laguna con sus dos canoas declarolo por mis vienes para que conste.
Ytem declaro titulo y merced de pesquería en esta dicha laguna de chapala lo cual contara por los testamentos y papeles que paran en mi poder.
Ytem declaro haver tenido quentas con don geronimo de quiñones vezino de zapotlan mando que se ajusten y en lo que alcanzare se le cobre por mi.
Ytem declaro ser casado y Bulado… según orden de nuetra santa Madre yYglesia con doña Francisca Quiñones con cual aunque me prometieron sus padres algún dote no he persivido hata el dia de hoy ninguna cantidad ni por esa via ni por otra manda que la abuela de dicha mi esposa le havia dejado por clausula de su testamento y durante el tiempo de nuesto matrimonio hemos tenido y procreado por nuestros hijos lexitimos , Antonia y Joana, Agustin Ynes, Martin, Joseph y Fran.ca de Ybarra nuestros hijos lexitimos declarolo para el descargo de mi consiencia como también el que dicha mi esposa se halla oy en dia en sinta, mando que si dios fuera servido de alumbrarla con bien se entienda ser mi hijo lexitimo lo que pariere lomo los demás-
Y para cumplir y pagar este mi testamento y lo en el contenido dexo y nombro por albaceas testamentarios fidei. Comisarios a mi querida esposa doña fran.ca de quiñones y a bartolome de moya mi compadre, a los quales des doi todo el poder y a cada uno insolidum que han menester para que entren en mis bienes y los vendan con almoneda y fuera de ella como mejor les parecieren y paguen y cumplan este mi testamento a quienes les prorrogo el mas tiempo que hubiera menester para hazerlo aunque sea pasado el año fatal que asi es mi ultima voluntad como el nombrar como nombro por tutora y curadora de nuestros hijos menores a la dicha mi esposa por la mucha satisfacción que de ella tengo a quien le pido por el amor de dios los cuide y doctrine y ponga en estado para el maior agrado de nuestro Señor.
Ytem Declaro que el tiempo y cuando contraje matrimonio con dicha Doña Fran.ca no tenia yo caudal ningino mas que las tierras donde vivo que herede de mi padre con los títulos de pesca y el que oi tengo y poseo he adquirido mediante dicho matrimonio y que entre los dos hemos buscado dicho caudal declarolo asi para el descargo de mi conciencia.
Dejo y nombro por mis universales herederos a los dichos mis hijis lexitimos y la dicha mi querida esposa para que hereden y partan en igualdad de partes…
En el Rancho de san Nicolas jurisdicción de Saiula provincia de abalos de la nueva España en seis días del mes de marzo de mil setecientos y tres años siendo testigos citados y llamados Phelipe Lopez Joan de hortega Nicolas de Herrera Antonio Ramires y Nicolas de puga que los dos firmaron conmigo como testigos –Joseph de Ybarra--- Ante mi como juez receptor pedro Ramirez---Testigo Nicolas de Puga Testigo Antonio Ramirez Concuerda con el original que queda en el archivo de mi cargo….
El dos de abril de ese año de 1703 muere doña Francisca Quiñones “vecina de Chapala y mujer que fue de Joseph de Ybarra quien había muerto días antes. Fue llamado Bartolomé de Moya para que como albacea testamentario de Joseph de Ybarra y su mujer prosiguiera las diligencias necesarias para saber lo que a cada uno de dichos menores les puede tocar” en la diligencia para nombrar curador ad litem de los bienes. La mayor de las hijas Antonia de Ybarra apoyada por su hermana Joana nombro como curador a “Joseph de Moya si tio persona de toda su satisfacción y confianza” Bartolomé de Moya nombra a su vez a Joseph de Siordia y Joan Diaz contador y evaluador .
De la dispensa de Ybarra- Siordia había visto el Auto o el fallo por decirlo de algún modo, que se encuentra en Matrimonios- Chapala www.ancestry.mx/interactive/60017/MM9.3.1_2FTH-1-18427-76297-5/795320?b… donde no se reflejan la declaración de los testigos.
Te agradezco la referencia de esta dispensa matrimonial donde quedo sin lugar a duda quienes fueron los padres de Martin Ybarra.
Sobre Francisca Quiñones tengo la idea que proviene de Zapotlán, por menciones de Joseph de Ybarra de tener una cuenta con don Gerónimo de Quiñones. Casado este con Francisca de Aguilar y padres de otro Gerónimo de quiñones nacido en 1678. Posible hermano y padres de Francisca Quiñones.
la edad de Joseph de Ybarra con la nueva información me hace dudar un poco. En realidad no es una información matrimonial sino un testigo de matrimonio de un mulato viudo( Partida en la parte superior derecha) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SK-DG?i=22&cc=187459…
Espero que en lo sucesivo vuelva a saludarte.
Francisco Méndez Ibarra
Comment
Qué tal Francisco, te tengo más noticias sobre nuestros ancestros Ibarra de Chapala.
Primeramente, he visto unos padrones de Chapala donde aparece Catalina Díaz (ya viuda de Francisco de Ibarra) y sus hijos.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KM-HVD8?i=816&cat=23…
También he encontrado en el ramo de Tierras y Aguas de Guadalajara unos informaciones sobre una propiedad en Chapala que acabo en manos de Nicolás de Siordia por compra que hizo a los otros herederos de ello. Todos estos herederos fueron (o descendieron de, ya que unos habían muerto) los 7 hijos de Catalina Díaz de Mondragón y Francisco de Ibarra. Además, dice que esta propiedad lo heredó Catalina de su ancestro, un Alonso Díaz Mondragón, quien lo había recibido como merced del virrey.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-83JK-6?i=361&cat=…
Con las informaciones y los padrones, podemos ampliar la lista de hijos de Francisco de Ibarra y Catalina Díaz:
Catalina Díaz cc Juan de Moya
Ana Díaz cc --- Plasencia
Nicolás de Ibarra cc Juana de Medina y Pena
Francisco de Ibarra cc Tomasina Velásquez
Antonio
Elena
Clara
Francisca
Martín de Ibarra cc Inés de Solis
Finalmente, también hay referencia que Catalina y Francisco habían sido originarios de Sayula, en la Provincia de Ávalos. Pero aún no he podido avanzar más en Sayula. Tal vez tendrás más éxito!
Saludos de nuevo y esperó que esto le ayudará!
Richard
Guadalajara Entierros