Help with an orphan






Arturo Ramos wrote:

I suppose I would just have to have the DNA test done myself

yes if your father's father's father's father etc ends up being Joseph
Ramon then your Y-DNA testing would be what you would compare to an
Aranzazu that you know comes from another of Bartolome Aranzazu's male
children that is wearing that name today. Like I said its a long shot
but one that would establish whether or not both my idea or the other
idea someone suggested might be true. If you shared the same Y-DNA then
you'd be back at a brick wall but at least you'd know which surname to
concentrate your research on.



joseph

 (as 
Joseph Ramon is my strictly-paternal ancestor) and then find a male 
descendant of Bartolome ARANZAZU who is his descendant strictly down 
the paternal line, i.e. probably any male that has the ARANZAZU last 
name.

That should not be THAT difficult as it is a pretty rare name and 
most likely anyone around El Teul or Tlaltenango who has that name 
today is

Help with an orphan

I suppose I would just have to have the DNA test done myself (as 
Joseph Ramon is my strictly-paternal ancestor) and then find a male 
descendant of Bartolome ARANZAZU who is his descendant strictly down 
the paternal line, i.e. probably any male that has the ARANZAZU last 
name.

That should not be THAT difficult as it is a pretty rare name and 
most likely anyone around El Teul or Tlaltenango who has that name 
today is descendant from Bartolome or his brother Francisco Xavier.  
A match to either of them would show that I am actually a descendant 
as well, right?  I have already begun mapping the ARANZAZU of 
Zacatecas family tree so I can probably confirm whether the volunteer 
is descendant of these men or not.

What sort of information is kept in the Informacion Matrimonial?  
Bartolome ARANZAZU was married to Juana de ARO in 1752 in Tlaltenango 
and there is a film... Información matrimonial 1742-1753  VAULT INTL 
Film 443846...  There is also a Census... Padrones 1754-1780  FHL

Help with an orphan

This is just a thought - but what if the child left at the door was really "fathered" by Don Bartolome Aranzazu, and the child's mother had no other real alternative - such as she was kicked out of her house, scarred for life, financially unable to care for a child.....
 
Esperanza(Chicago area) 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Arturo Ramos
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:47:05 -0000
Subject: [ranchos] Help with an orphan

Mi twenty-six times over cousin Rosalinda made a big breakthrough for 
me today looking through films for me.  I had not been able to find a 
link between by fourth-great-grandfather Joseph Ramon ARANZAZU and the 
families in Tlaltenango with that name (where he supposedly was born).  
She made the link but it was not what I expected.  I am posting it here 
so that I can get suggestions as to how to proceed:

I looked up the marriage record of Ramon, and while the IGI notes that 
he was married before, he was not.  The person

Help with an orphan

Well I really don't know how to proceed. But lets think outside the box
for a second and really reeeeach for straw. Suppose that this orphan
child was only an orphan to cover up an indiscreet pregnancy from an
unmarried sister/prima of Don Bartolome Aranzazu. That was a far reach
wasn't it? Well anyway if you could find an Aranzazu relative from your
Ramon's downline that is currently wearing the Aranzazu name and another
that you know is directly through one of Don Bartolome's other son's you
could do Y-DNA on them to eliminate this ever so slight possibility.
Sorry to offer so little, but was the only thing I could think of.


joseph

ps: Also try to find the "Informacion Matrimonial" for Ramon as you
never know but there might be additional clues given. Confirmation
records? Death record?


Arturo Ramos wrote:

Ramon, it says, is an "expuesto en las puertas de Don
Bartolome Aranzazu." Since he was left at the doorstep, I guess his
parents are unknown, and I think your

various Ranchos

Please keep your eyes open for any Duartes.  I believe
the Duartes from Jerez and Tlaltenango were related,
but I've had no success in linking them to my
greatgggggfather that lived in the 1600s in Zacatecas.
 

Thank you.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza  wrote:

> Why does it have to be offline?  We want to know
> more information on 
> your trip, too!  It's interesting and very helpful
> to the rest of us.  
> Purty Pleez?  Marge:)
> 
> On Aug 12, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Santos Luna wrote:
> 
> > Peggy, On my July trip to Tlaltenango, I was able
> to obtain some oral 
> > history from my cousins paternal grandmother who
> just celebrated her 
> > 100th birthday.
> > Her family said that she has great eyesight, and
> memory, She appeared 
> > to be in better health than her 80 year old
> daughter.
> >  
> > I was curious about the various "ranchos" so, I
> asked the various 
> > family members. Also, I was amazed at the distance
>

Bibliography Database: Ranchos2

Yes great I tried to do one awhile back but didn't get to far. I listed
some in "Bibliographies" in Ranchos2 but only have info there for Los
Altos. . .


please update as often as you can.

thanks,

joseph


Arturo Ramos wrote:

How about a bibliography database?






Yahoo! Groups Links














Rancho del Muerto - Gracias

Give it a try....
I some times use Yahoo Mexico for searching for names,
places, relatives, in Mexico, and I've had some
limited success.  Last week I found a doctor in
Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, with the same last surnames as
mine, but reversed (Prieto Duarte).  She listed her
birthplace as Jerez, Zacatecas! Now all I have to do
is find here email address.

Good luck.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California 

--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> do a google on Las Llamas, Zacatecas. here is one
> hit although I didn't 
> find out if its the same Rancho next to 
> Tlaltenango. do the translate 
> to english on it:
> 
> Leyendas de Zacatecas
> http://www.familiallamas.net/id18.html> - [ 
> Translate this page 
>
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.familiallamas.net/id18.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlas%2Bllamas,%2Bzacatecas%26complete%3D1%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG>
> 
> ]La Pagina de los Llamas. Leyendas de Zacatecas ...
> Los filones de plata 
>

Help with an orphan

Mi twenty-six times over cousin Rosalinda made a big breakthrough for 
me today looking through films for me.  I had not been able to find a 
link between by fourth-great-grandfather Joseph Ramon ARANZAZU and the 
families in Tlaltenango with that name (where he supposedly was born).  
She made the link but it was not what I expected.  I am posting it here 
so that I can get suggestions as to how to proceed:

I looked up the marriage record of Ramon, and while the IGI notes that 
he was married before, he was not.  The person extracting the record 
misunderstood.  Ramon, it says, is an "expuesto en las puertas de Don 
Bartolome Aranzazu."  Since he was left at the doorstep, I guess his 
parents are unknown, and I think your brick wall is now truly high.  
There is a chance that you can find his baptism record, but that would 
take some work.  Sorry about this news.

Also if anyone has any ideas as to how his son ended up getting the 
name RAMOS (Benito RAMOS)... My guess is that son of

[Fwd: Castle Garden now online]

thanks Kitty for this free database. Lots of entries for Spain.

=================================================

The Castle Garden Database is now online. You can presently search New York
passenger arrivals from 1830-1892.

http://www.castlegarden.org/

The data reported is Firstname, Lastname, Occupation, Age, Sex, Arrived,
Origin, and Ship. The website says, in part:

CastleGarden.org offers free access to an extraordinary database of
information on 10 million immigrants from 1830 through 1892, the year Ellis
Island opened.... From 1855 to 1890, the Castle was America's first official
immigration center, a pioneering collaboration of New York State and New
York City.

CastleGarden.org is an invaluable resource for educators, scholars,
students, family historians, and the interested public. Currently the site
hosts 10 million records, and support is needed to complete the digitization
of the remaining 2 million records, beginning in 1820, from the original
ship manifests.






Tlaxcaltecas en el Chichimeca

I need help. I would like for good messages like this and other that
are suggesting various books to be saved in the Ranchos2 files area.
Something like making a folder called "Indios" and a subfolder called
"Tlaxcaltecs" and then the books sited here inserted. As the messages
come in hot and heavy please do take this good information and save it
to a folder so we can reference it later. thanks,



joseph





Arturo Ramos wrote:

Alberto:

Thanks for the information.  Based on that article, I found a very 
useful book on the topic, which Schmal references:

People of the Peyote: Huichol Indian History, Religion, & Survival 
(Paperback) by Stacy B. Schaefer (Editor), Peter T. Furst (Editor)

I also ordered one of his books on genealogy.

Mexican-American Genealogical Research: Following the Paper Trail to 
Mexico (Paperback) by John Schmal, Donna Morales

I have also found a couple of books published by a University in 
Tlaxcala that are precisely on the topic of Tlaxacltec

Go To Digest


don't forget. . .if you are getting way too many emails just go to
Digest rather than consider unsubscribing.


or even go to "No Email" and read the posts online.

if you need help let me know.

joseph



Rancho del Muerto - Gracias

do a google on Las Llamas, Zacatecas. here is one hit although I didn't
find out if its the same Rancho next to  Tlaltenango. do the translate
to english on it:



Leyendas de Zacatecas - [ Translate this page ]La Pagina
de los Llamas. Leyendas de Zacatecas ... Los
filones de plata zacatecanos eran más reales y tangibles que las
riquezas de Cíbola y Quivira. ...

www.familiallamas.net/id18.html - 26k -
Aug 11, 2005 -
Cached
- Similar pages



joseph







Peggy Delgado wrote:

This may be a lame question, but if a Rancho
is listed as the birth place, what does that really mean?  How do I
find the histories of these ranches on the roles people played in
them?  What that information be on the same website?  I haven't really
looked and I don't understand Spanish too well although I can try and
muddle my way through. 
 
I'd appreciate any insight.
 
Peggy
 
p.s. the Ranchos I'm interested in are Las
Llamas and Encinillas, both outside of Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman

various Ranchos

Why does it have to be offline? We want to know more information on your trip, too! It's interesting and very helpful to the rest of us. Purty Pleez? Marge:)



On Aug 12, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Santos Luna wrote:


Peggy, On my July trip to Tlaltenango, I was able to obtain some oral history from my cousins paternal grandmother who just celebrated her 100th birthday.

Her family said that she has great eyesight, and memory, She appeared to be in better health than her 80 year old daughter.

 

I was curious about the various "ranchos" so, I asked the various family members. Also, I was amazed at the distance between Tlaltenango, and some of the "ranchos"...she said that they would walk over the mountains...about 2 hours. Gosh...even in my days of running and hiking, the terrain would have been quite the feat. 

 

Back to your question...about the "rancho" being listed as the birth place...apparently this is where the family lived and worked, then they went to the nearest church for the

various Ranchos

Peggy, On my July trip to Tlaltenango, I was able to obtain some oral history from my cousins paternal grandmother who just celebrated her 100th birthday.
Her family said that she has great eyesight, and memory, She appeared to be in better health than her 80 year old daughter.
 
I was curious about the various "ranchos" so, I asked the various family members. Also, I was amazed at the distance between Tlaltenango, and some of the "ranchos"...she said that they would walk over the mountains...about 2 hours. Gosh...even in my days of running and hiking, the terrain would have been quite the feat. 
 
Back to your question...about the "rancho" being listed as the birth place...apparently this is where the family lived and worked, then they went to the nearest church for the baptismal.
 
In some of my research, I have found sometimes my ancestors had the child baptized in Tlaltenango, and other times in Momax, and the "rancho" was listed the same.
 
I met a distant cousin, who shared

Rancho del Muerto - Gracias

This
may be a lame question, but if a Rancho is listed as the birth place, what does
that really mean?  How do I find the histories of these ranches on the
roles people played in them?  What that information be on the same
website?  I haven't really looked and I don't understand Spanish too well
although I can try and muddle my way through. 
 
I'd
appreciate any insight.
 
Peggy
 
p.s.
the Ranchos I'm interested in are Las Llamas and Encinillas, both outside of
Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas.
-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@...om
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Alberto
Duarte
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 6:27 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Rancho del Muerto
- Gracias

There is a ranch just outside of Jerez
called Lo de
Luna.  Many of my ancestors came from this ranch.
I
believe my  uncles (Garcia de la Cadena branch)
purchased the
ranch from the Munoz family in the early
1700's.

Alberto Duarte
Prieto
San

Rancho del Muerto - Gracias Part Two

I know
I wasn't the one who requested it, but I was very excited to find two Ranchos in
Zacatecas that were listed on my ancestors birth records!
Thanks
for the information!
Peggy
-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@...om
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Santos
Luna
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:09 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Rancho del Muerto
- Gracias Part Two

Rosalinda, Fantastic site!!! found what I was looking for,
and much more!!! Thank you for sharing.
Helyn


lareina2@... wrote:
Hi Helyn--
 
If you click on this link: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm ,
it is a geographic dictionary and lists many of the ranchos and
cities in Mexico, in alphabetical order.  Click on M, and then
scroll down to the link for Muertos, which happens to be on page 152, volume
4.  There are 18 ranchos listed under Muerto, and 5 under Muertos, with
other variations

filming Sombrerete

yes Dennis Daily is what I meant not Day. . .very nice person and easy
to talk to on the phone. Sometimes when you call Special Collections he
answers the phone. If anyone calls or emails him please report back on
future film sites on their agenda. thanks,


joseph

gmccrary@... wrote:

New Mexico State U. has filmed 3 archives from Mexico: three
collections in Durango--"the archives from the Durango Cathedral,
the state's notary records and a portion of the colonial materials
from the state historical archives." The Sombrerete will be the 4th
one.

NMSU worked with the town council to gain permission to film those
documents from Sombrerete. The person in charge at NMSU is
Dennis Daily. Perhaps you can contact him and inquire about future
projects.


Gloria



Yahoo! Groups Links













Question:2005 Spain Yearbook

Sounds like they take the information out of some of the Surname
Encyclopedias and send general historical information. I haven't seen
this company specifically.



joseph



-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Question
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 02:25:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: MMG8938@...
To: makas@...






family="SANSSERIF" face="Arial" lang="0">Hello:



Have you ever seen the 2005 Spain Yearbook?  It is based in Denver,
CO.  I am skeptical because you put in a surname and the name becomes
the title of the book "The 2005 Ballesteros Family Yearbook".



I asked for Spain genealogy.....and this came up.  The price online is
$39.85....has anyone hear of this?   I wonder if this is the phone book
scam???



Mickey

NMSU filming archives of Sombrerete

thanks for this great information. I also have family from there. Maybe
some gaps will be filled once this project is complete. thanks much.
keep us updated and also forward any ILL loan information we might need.
I know Mr. Day in Special Collections via some email communications. He
is a very very helpful person.


thanks,

joseph


gmccrary@... wrote:

In my latest alumni issue from New Mexico State University in Las
Cruces, I found the following article:


NMSU is filming the archives of Sombrerete, Zacatecas. It will
take 2 years and produce about 200 reels of film. "The archive
houses little used, but incredibly rich documentation for the period
of the late 17th century through the end of the 18th century."


Among the materials are the church sacramental records such as
the marriage records from 1738-1764.


I am looking forward to the completion of the filming. Many of my
ancestors came from Sombrerete. Don Diego de Vargas recruited
many of his NM colonizers from

Tlaxcaltecas en el Chichimeca

Record 1 of 1 in Dissertation Abstracts 1987-1991



TI: SIX TLAXCALAN COLONIES ON NEW SPAIN'S NORTHERN FRONTIER; A
COMPARISON OF SUCCESS AND FAILURE (MEXICO)

AU: SEGO-EUGENE-B

DN: PHD

DD: 1990

SN: INDIANA-UNIVERSITY (0093)

PG: 320

LA: ENGLISH

AB: In their desire to end the long and costly warfare with the nomadic
Indians on colonial Mexico's northern frontier, Spanish officials
pursued a number of remedies; one of which was pacification of the
region through the introduction of colonies of Indian allies from
central Mexico. By far the most energetic and large-scale effort of
this type took place in 1591, when about one thousand Tlaxcalans were
sent north to found six widely scattered settlements. This study traces
the history of five of them (San Luis Colotlan,
San Andres del Teul, San Miguel Mesquitic, Nuestra Senora de la
Asuncion de Tlaxcalilla, and San Sebastian del Agua del Venado), in an
attempt to ascertain the impact of the expedition in general, and
individual successes

[Fwd: SOMOS PRIMOS August 2005 URL link and Table of Contents lq]

I'm back. . .buried under 500+ emails but back.



joseph



==============================================



-------- Original Message --------

Subject: SOMOS PRIMOS August 2005 URL link and Table of Contents lq
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:37:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: MIMILOZANO@...
To: MIMILOZANO@...





Click
here: Somos Primos


http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2005/spaug05/spaug05.htm





Hi . .   Hope this summer is filled with fun family reunions and
exciting researching vacations.   You'll find in this issue two new
categories, Anti-Spanish Legends and Dichos. 



Somos Primos
is a reflection of all of us, please feel
welcomed to send articles, tidbits, family information, and cultural
items as well.  If you have sent something which has not appeared in an
issue yet,  please send me a reminder.



Warm regards, Mimi

Notification is sent as a service, if you do not want to be notified,
just let me