Hola a los genealogistas:
Desde ayer encontré que se reactivó por fin, la Guía General del Archivo General de la Nación que contiene, entre otros, los documentos de la época virreinal.
Has anyone tried using Genealogy Bank? What was your experience? They keep advertising on several cites I'm on and was wondering if anyone had tried them. Thank you, D. Corona
been actively online again searching for jose simon martinez and his wife maria rosalia delgadillo. he was born roughly about 1760 mexico and she also was born about 1765 .
Dear Steph Martinez,
I did some more research and went back some more generations where they hook up with other research that I had previously done for my family tree . The line hooks up with the Ruiz de Esparza family so there is descent from Moctezuma, as well as descent from Lope Ruiz de Esparza junior.
Rick A. Ricci
Miguel Martin married on 12/Nov/1719 to Efigenia Lucresia de Lira in Cienega de Mata, Jalisco. Image # 202 out of 456 in film # 641015
Miguel Martin and Efigenia Lucrecia de Lira are the parents of Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez)
Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez) married twice, first to Maria Yldefonsa Sedillo on 12/Feb/1746, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. (Daughter of Nicolas Sedillo and Josepha de Torres.
Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez) married for the second time to Francisca Xaviera Vicenta de Ortiz, daughter of Francisco Hortiz (Ortiz) and Maria Bernarda de Jesus De La Rosa.
Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez) and Francisca Xaviera Vicenta de Ortiz are the parents of Jose Simon Martinez married to Maria Rosalia Barthola Delgadillo-Gonzalez y Miramontes, daughter of Jose Regino Delgadillo (aka del Gado aka Gonzalez) and Maria Ysabel Miramontes
Rick A. Ricci
Parents of Simon and Rosalia are listed in the christening record (May 22 1803) of their daughter Maria Prudencia:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-JGJF-P
Here is the christening record (Jan 15 1794) of their daughter Maria Manuela:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-JGJX-3
María Prudencia and Maria Manuela were sisters because both of them were born in a place called Juachi or El Juachi and it also proves Rosalia Delgadillo was a.k.a. Rosa Delgado.
Maria Rosalia Delgadillo (aka Delgado) is the daughter of Josse Regino Delgado and Maria Ysabel Flores (aka Miramontes)
Godparents are Valtazar (Balthazar) Fuentes and Maria Polonia Delgadillo
The Godmother is also a daughter of Josse Regino Delgadillo (Delgado) and Maria Ysabel Flores (aka Miramontes)
The godfather is a son of Manuel Fuentes and Maria de Los Dolores Servantes.
Jose Andres Delgadillo is a brother to Maria Rosalia Delgadillo and Maria Polonia Delgadillo He is married to Maria Nicolaza Lira (daughter of Joseph de Lira and Maria Candida.
Here is a record that needs to be researched to see if there is a possible connection:
Rosa Ma. Miramontes Flores
Mexico Baptisms
Name Rosa Ma. Miramontes Flores
Gender Female
Christening Date 02 Oct 1736
Christening Place TLALTENANGO DE SANCHEZ ROMAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Joseph Miramontes
Mother's Name Bernarda Flores
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZQ-XZN : 12 December 2014), Rosa Ma. Miramontes Flores, 02 Oct 1736; citing TLALTENANGO DE SANCHEZ ROMAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 443,803.
Rick A. Ricci
thank you ricci and everyone for clarifying my training of thoughts. I highly suspected inter close marriages and yes agreed will need a dispensa as polonia back then was a daughter of josse regiono Delgadillo.
I forgot to explain why it is important to investigate the existence of a dispensation for the marriage of Maria Mauricia Martinez and Vicente Flores. The parents of Maria Mauricia Martinez are Simon Martinez and Maria Rosalia Delgadillo. The parents of Maria Rosalia Delgadillo are Josse Regino Delgado (Delgadillo) and Maria Isabel Flores (aka/Miramontes). The Delgado and Flores ancestry are the lines that are most likely shared by Maria Mauricia's husband Vicente Flores Delgado. The parents of Vicente are Clemente Flores and Maria Antonia Delgado (Delgadillo). A dispensation may provide common ancestors or clues since Maria Antonia Delgadillo is most likely related to Regino Delgadillo and Maria Isabel Flores Miramontes is most likely related to Clemente Flores. Searching through the baptismal records of the children of Clemente Flores and Maria Antonia Delgado may also provide information that could help in finding the parents of Josse Regino Delgadillo and Maria Isabel Flores Miramontes.
Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Important to Research this record to see if there is a letter of dispensation that shows that the bride, Maria Mauricia Martinez, and groom, Vicente Flores, are related through both the Delgadillo and the Flores lines.
Name. Vicente Flores
Birth Date 1787
Age 32
Spouse's Name Maria Mauricia Martinez
Spouse's Birth Date 1795
Spouse's Age 24
Event Date 18 Feb 1819
Event Place Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Clemente Flores
Mother's Name Maria Antonia Delgado
Spouse's Father's Name Simon Martinez
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Rosalia Delgadillo
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZV-9FJ : 15 July 2015), Simon Martinez in entry for Vicente Flores and Maria Mauricia Martinez, 18 Feb 1819; citing Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 641,017.
yes correct rosa Delgado aka Delgadillo was known by both names in some of the records I have viewed through family search and through ancestry.com she was my 6th great grandmother. I currently also found about 8 of her children and yes correct maria Manuela and or maria prudencia is those children of hers. thank you kindly for that.
I forgot to add that Jose Simon Martinez is the son of Fernando Martinez and Maria Bernarda Ortiz. That information is found in the baptismal record of Maria Prudencia that Ruben Hernandez provided.
Here are possible leads on Fernando Martinez:
Fernando Antto. Martin
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records
Name Fernando Antto. Martin
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 14 Jun 1747
Event Place Inmaculada Concepción, Ciénega de Mata, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Prudensio Martin
Mother's Name Felipa Antta.
Citing this Record
México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6QG-9HP : 16 February 2017), Fernando Antto. Martin, 14 Jun 1747; citing Baptism, Inmaculada Concepción, Ciénega de Mata, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 640,151.
Joseph Prudencio Martines
Mexico Baptisms
Name Joseph Prudencio Martines
Gender Male
Christening Date 22 Apr 1722
Christening Place SAN LUIS,COLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Lucas Martines
Mother's Name Ma.
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSHS-2TY : 12 December 2014), Joseph Prudencio Martines, 22 Apr 1722; citing SAN LUIS,COLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 443,671.
Rick A. Ricci
yes right you are I did later on find the parents as to be Fernando Martinez and or maria bernarda Ortiz.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZK-KX7
had question about this particular record unfortunately I cant view it any farther as it doesn't have a image it says through the family search. is this same family or someone different ?
Dear Steph,
There are two Jose Regino and Maria Ysabel couples, with enough similarities that they can be confused as being the same couple but there is evidence that distinguishes them. One of the Jose Regino and Maria Ysabel couples is español while the other Jose Regino and Maria Ysabel are mulatos libres.
This Jose Simon Martines and Maria Rosalia Barthola Gonzales Delgadillo is the same couple that is your family. The surnames Delgadillo, Delgado, and Gonzalez were all used by both Maria Rosalia and her father Jose Regino.
1) Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderon Orosco are the parents of Juan Delgadillo who is married to Ma.de la Concepcion Gonzalez de Islas Renteris (aka de Islas)
2) Juan Delgadillo and Ma.de la Concepcion Gonzalez de Islas Renteris (aka de Islas) are the parents of at least two sons, Juan Delgadillo y Gonzalez (Junior) and Diego Delgadillo Gonzalez.
3) juan Delgadillo Gonzalez (junior) is married to Elvira Martinez de Alarcon and are the parents of Maria Antonia Delgadillo that went by numerous surnames( Delgadillo, Martinez, and Gonzalez de Islas).
4) Maria Antonia Delgadillo ( aka Martinez, aka gonzalez de Islas) married Jose Diaz de Leon. These are my ancestors.
Jose Regino Delgadillo (aka Jose Regino Gonzalez) most likely descends from Juan Delgadillo and Ma.de la Concepcion Gonzalez de Islas Renteris (aka de Islas)
The descendants of the Delgadillo Gonzalez de Islas often married into the Martinez de Alarcon family. I descend from some of these Delgadillo Martinez lines I believe that there is a strong probability that Jose Simon Martinez also descends from the Martinez de Alarcon family.
Rick A. Ricci
Jose Simon Martines
mentioned in the record of Jose Simon Martines and Rosalia Barthola Gonsales
Name Jose Simon Martines
Spouse's Name Rosalia Barthola Gonsales
Event Date 10 Dec 1781
Event Place Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Bernardo De La O Martines
Mother's Name Francisca Xaviera Ortis
Spouse's Father's Name Jose Regino Gonsales
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Ysavel Miramontes
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZK-KX7 : 15 July 2015), Jose Simon Martines and Rosalia Barthola Gonsales, 10 Dec 1781; citing Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 641,016.
i did go look for the record and looking to me on fernando it cites prudencio for the father and or a woman by name of felipa for the mother which is fantastic news to me. and thank you for the record to confirm the differentiality of the persons in the one i couldnt view at the time . after reviewing informations and or notations in the groups of here i couldnt help but notice that you was a family member and to me that is awesome news! hi cousin rick ricci lol . this just made my day! i do hopes to do this dna test i keeps reading about i may start with the ancestry.com one first and see where it goes and or do the others later on as the coronado side of the family is virtuously stuck in brick wall when it has to do with my grandfather andres coronado and grandmother of mine by name of maria amat. but compared to over 10 yrs ago for records i couldnt be more happier as my great grandparents died exactly 4 years before i was even born and to me that is priceless learning about them and their families. not to forget meeting new families members that is also priceless to me
still looking at notes on here and looking for new record you was talking about.
Dear Steph,
Prudencio is not the grandfather of Jose Simon Martinez. I had mentioned Prudencio Martinez only as something to be checked out as a possibility. It has been ruled out as The correct line goes like this:
1) Jose Simon Martinez is Named as the son of Fernando Martinez but Fernando Martinez is properly named as Bernardo (Bernardino) de la O Martin.
2) Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez) and Francisca Xaviera Vicenta de Ortiz are the parents of Jose Simon Martinez married to Maria Rosalia Barthola Delgadillo-Gonzalez y Miramontes, daughter of Jose Regino Delgadillo (aka del Gado aka Gonzalez) and Maria Ysabel Miramontes.
Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez) married for the second time to Francisca Xaviera Vicenta de Ortiz, daughter of Francisco Hortiz (Ortiz) and Maria Bernarda de Jesus De La Rosa.
3) Miguel Martin and Efigenia Lucrecia de Lira are the parents of Bernardo (Bernardino) De La O Martin (Aka Martinez)
Miguel Martin married on 12/Nov/1719 to Efigenia Lucresia de Lira in Cienega de Mata, Jalisco. Image # 202 out of 456 in film # 641015
Rick A. Ricci
fantastic reading on this database i have been going back and forth. beautiful name of my grandma back then i was wondering it says of the islands am i correct ? how should i import her name into my roots magic or family tree maker? is it maria de la concepcion or how?
Jose Regino Delgadillo Gonzalez most likely descends from one of two Delgadillo Gonzalez lines. To distinguish them, one is called the Delgaldillo Gonzalez line while I refer to the other one as the Delgado Gonzalez line. If we find that Mauricia is not related to her husband then Regino most likely descends from the Delgadillo Gonzalez line that I listed earlier. If they are related then Regino descends from the Delgado Gonzalez line that are ancestors of Mauricia's husband. I am going to look for a letter of dispensation before I list the other line. This other Delgado Gonzalez line is the one that leads into the Ruiz de Esparza family and Moctezuma. I am related to both the Delgadillo Gonzalez line and the Delgado Gonzalez line.
Rick A. Ricci
while going to my family tree area to imports information i happened to notice for the area of cinega de matas, jalisco, mexico regarding marriages through family search there was names of antonia rosalia and or a anna maria delgado for following references they can be found through family search ie:familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A"maria%20rosalia%20barthola"~%20%2Bsurname%3Adelgadillo~%20%
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenn…
)a maria ysabel and juan delgado was present for both marriages) i was wondering if they were sisters of my maria rosalia delgadillo?
hi looking in notes of rosa maria miramontes i do have bernarda flores listed as mother and also juan joseph miramontes for parents also noted was several children born in zacatecas, mexico.
Im wondering if anyone has this couple Agustin de Cordoba and Ines Martinez Calvillo in their tree.
Hi Danny,
I don’t have this couple in my tree, but here are a couple of leads:
Agustin de Cordoba and Ynes Martinez Calvillo were mulatos libres. As you know, in a lot of cases, Mulatos took on the surnames of the families they worked for. During that era, there was a hacendado in Ags named Luis de Cordoba, as well as a family named Martinez Calvillo. I don’t know anything about Luis de Cordoba, but the Martinez Calvillo appear to descend from Joseph Martinez Calvillo cc Magdalena Gomez, who lived previously in San Felipe Gto and in Marfil Gto; they appear in Aguascalientes in the 1650s, and had about 10 children. I’ve also seen this surname in Zamora, Mich, though I haven’t been able to link them.
Agustin might come from Luis de Cordoba’s hacienda. Ynes Martinez Calvillo, on the other hand, is surely linked to the Martinez Calvillo, as a daughter (legitimate or illegitimate) or as a criado (or child of a criado). I mention Joseph Calvillo cc Magdalena Gomez in this thread: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23857
Looking at their marriage record, are the testigos Tomas de Lira and Joseph de los Santos? If so, they both had ties to Chinampas in Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal. The Lira’s were servants on Chinampas, you might wanna dig around there.
I hope that helps, and good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
This is really great information, Manny. Thank you so much. I've now looked at that couple Joseph Martinez Calvillo and Magdaleno Gomez and it definitely looks like Joseph Martinez Calvillo or one of his kids is the illegitimate father of Ynes Martinez Calvillo.
Hola Danny:
Yo también tengo una abuela llamada Victoria de Córdoba que nació el 16 de enero de 1746 en Ciénega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco. Era hija de Atanasio de Córdoba nacido en 1724 en Encarnación y de María Hermenegilda de los Dolores Martínez.
Muy cerca de Encarnación había una zona llamada "de las negritas" en donde había familias de personas negras. También en Ciénega de Mata había cientos de esclavos, por lo que en esa zona había población mulata.
Hay varios libros sobre los descendientes que mencionan sus linajes, se mencionan en el artículo Esclavos o Libres, en el blog Historias y Recuerdo de Encarnación, tal vez te sirva.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola,
These two are my 8th great-grandparents, from Nochistlan. Approximate DOB for Juan is 1705 and for Victoria is 1708.
This won't help looking further back, but additional information nonetheless.
Victoria Ballin, widow of Juan Sanches, died on 10 April 1771 in Estancia in Nochistlan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT9D-R?i=14&wc=3P9K-RM…
Hello Rick.
This couple christened 4 of their children in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco between the years 1708 and 1721 according to the results of the following search on FamilySearch:
If this is your Juan Sanchez, he should have been born before 1690.
I hope this information helps in your research.
Thank you so much for that. I also found a 5th child, if anyone is interested.
Sadly, when I click on that 2nd link, I keep getting an error message from familysearch that there are "technical difficulties." Could you share what that info was about Juan Sanchez? Thanks!
Hola Rick:
Hay una discusión previa sobre ésta familia bajo el título "Diego Vallin husban of Francisca Ruiz de Esparza, te convendría revisarlo.
Los participantes señalan que hay varios árboles genealógicos que señalan que la familia proviene de Francia, sin aportar pruebas. Yo encontré un libro y algún artículo sobre la historia de la imprenta en México que señala que esa familia tenía imprenta en Salamanca, España y obtuvieron licencia para poner una imprenta en la ciudad de México, se sabe que la familia era de origen francés porque Pedro Balli era traductor de la misma, aunque él había nacido en Salamanca, fue hijo de Juan Bautista Balli y de Catalina Rodríguez, pasó a Nueva España por Cédula del 15 de julio de 1569. Tuvo 5 hijos el Licenciado Juan Bautista Balli que escribió un memorial dirigido a la corona, Jerónimo quien heredó la imprenta y murió joven y tres mujeres que quedaron bajo la manutención de su hermano.
http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/obra-visor/historia-de-la-imprenta-en-l…
Saludos
Marcelina
Pierre Vailly, también conocido como Pedro Bailli, fue residente de Salamanca. Su familia tenía raíces en Francia, Italia, y España. Algunos genealogogos tiene sus antepasados de los Vailly en Italia que vienen a España en 1300’s, pasan a Francia donde se casan con francés. En los 1500’s encontramos la familia en Francia donde nace el padre de Pierre en Strasbourg, Alsace Lorraine, Francia. Su padre pasa a Italia donde se casa con una italiana/española y nace Pierre/Pedro. La familia pasa a España y se asientan en Salamanca antes de pasar a mexico. En Francia esta familia Vailly dejó su marca en la region de Alsace Lorraine. Hay un pueblo en esta región donde se encuentra un tipo de “multiple sclerosis “ que es diferente de otro tipos.
En 1900’s encontramos descendientes de Pierre Vailly,/Pedro Bailli en Pegueros Jalisco Mexico que también han heredado esta forma de “multiple Sclerosis “. Estos Martin del Campo De Pegueros son mis primos terceros y cuartos. Las familias que yo conozco que han heredado “multiple Sclerosis “ tienen padres que eran primos cercanos por lo Martin Del Campo y descendientes de Pierre Vailly.
En El Valle de Guadalupe Jalisco Mexico se encuentra otra familia donde los padres eran primos cercanos por lo Martin del Campo y esta familia ha heredado otra condición genética. Muchos de esta familia son sordos. Yo desciendo de la rama de Martin del Campo Del Valle de Guadalupe y tengo un medio hermano que nació sordo.
Yo desciendo de “Josesito” Martin del Campo siete veces por sus dos matrimonios. Mi esposa desciende de Josesito Martin del Campo dos veces. Mi esposa y yo somos primos quintos por la descendencia de Josesito Martin del Campo.
R.A.Ricci
Source: my book “Mygenes2000”
Hola Rick:
Me dejaste asombrada. Yo conozco a una mujer muy bella que tiene esclerosis múltiple y resulta que se apellida Barba, creo que su mamá es de Jalisco, me contaron que el médico les dijo que había mayor incidencia en las personas de ojos azules y ésta chica los tiene azules.
Yo también desciendo tanto de los Barba como de los Martin. ¿Sabes si los miembros de ésta familia tengan algún protocolo de tratamiento?
Gracias por la inofrmación
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
La línea de Los Barba en mis notas termina con la información que me paso Ing. José de Jesús Barba Ornelas. Hoy día no hemos hayado una línea de Barba en Francia. Hay muchos Martin del Campo que se han casado con Barba. La esclerosis múltiple viene por lo Martin del Campo por ser descendientes de Pierre Vailly. Mi esposa viene de una familia donde se casaron Martin del Campo y Barba muchas veces. Los padres de una de sus tatarabuelas se apellidan Barba Martin del Campo y Martin del Campo Barba. Los padres de su tatarabuela eran primos hermanos, por lo Barba y también por lo Martin del Campo. Por eso también vas a ver esclerosis múltiple también en la familia Barba.
Las mujeres de está familia que yo conozco que han heredado esclerosis múltiple también han heredado la belleza.
Ricardo A. Ricci
Hola Ricardo:
La sorpresa también tiene otros aspectos. Hace unos 20 años viví en cierta colonia, mi vecina de al lado se apellida Barba Martín y es de Jalostotitlán y me platicaba mucho sobre su familia. No muy lejos estaba otra familia de apellido Barba a la que pertenece la chica con la esclerosis, en aquél entonces le pregunté tanto a mi amiga como a la madre de la segunda familia si estaban emparentadas, dijeron que tal vez sí, pero ya no quisieron indagar más al respecto. Recientemente y gracias a tus investigaciones y las de otros compañeros me he enterado que yo desciendo tanto de Pedro Vailly, como de los Muñoz de la Barba y de los Martín del Campo.
Es decir, coincidimos en cierto espacio y tiempo pero ya ninguna de las tres vive en aquélla colonia, aunque compartimos los mismos ancestros.
Hasta ahora me he enterado, porque mi bisabuela materno paterna Juana Cuéllar Murguía fue una persona poco valorada en la familia y no se habló jamás de sus orígenes, lo único que se comentaba es que no supo administrar la herencia que le heredó su esposo.
Tal vez alguna vez vuelva a ver a mi amigas y por lo que ahora se, parientas.
No se si ya conoces éste PDF que contiene retratos de la familia Villaseñor:
http://www.museocjv.com/cedros/Los%20de%20Villasenor.pdf
En donde vivo hay personas con los mismos rasgos, espero te guste.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
Gracias por contarme de tus amigas Barba y Martin De Jalostotitlan. Estas son las familias de mi esposa, y también las mías. Si conozco el pdf de los Villaseñor que mencionas. Tiene mucha información y es un buen trabajo. Pero tiene por lo menos dos errores que yo he encontrado. Alamejor hay más pero yo no más he encontrado a dos errores.
Gracias ,
Ricardo A. Ricci
When I first found out that I had so much Martin del Campo ancestry I was surprised. Then I thought to myself “ no wonder some family members have hearing issues.” But no close members of my family have multiple Sclerosis. The closest family members that I knew with multiple Sclerosis were fourth cousins, or so I thought. I found out yesterday that a second cousin that I hadn’t seen in a couple of decades had come down with symptoms soon after I last saw her. She passed away a couple years ago after succumbing to the symptoms. She didn’t come down with symptoms until she was an adult. My fourth cousins that suffered from multiple Sclerosis all experienced some symptoms prior to becoming adults.
Rick. A. Ricci
Hola Rick:
Hubo una familia de impresores franceses que pasaron a vivir a Salamanca, España, tiempo después emigraron a la ciudad de México en donde tuvieron una imprenta también, sus descendientes pasaron a Nueva Galicia.
Uno de ellos Jerónimo Vailly o Valli aparece en varias obras sobre la historia de la imprenta en México. éste apellido fue escrito con variantes como Balli, Bailli, y posiblemente esté relacionado con tu abuela Victoria.
En el reciente post sobre la carta de dote de Alfonsina de la Paz subido por J. Refugio Hermosillo se menciona a alguien de esa familia.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina,
Muchísimas gracias - que interesante. Son cosas como estas que me impulsan mucho a seguir adelante con mis investigaciones, no obstante lo difícil que pueda ser.
Hola! compañeros esta es la segunda ocasión que pido ayuda .
The connection of the Dorantes Carranza family to the Lopez Peralta family is of paramount importance when dissecting what Dorantes Carranza jr. wrote. If I didn't know of this connection, I would find everything he wrote on this family as suspect since it presents a very old Diego Coría marrying a very young daughter of Jeronimo Lopez Peralta. But since I do know that the Dorantes Carranza family is closely related, and were involved with the Lopez Peralta family, I take the part of a Diego Coría marrying and having a child named Diego Coría Peralta as the truth. Checking the time frame does not allow any other generation between Diego Coría Peralta and Manuel Coría Peralta. This timeline is based on wills, marriage dates, and birth dates
What I'm not convinced of is the identity of the Diego Coria married to Maria Mendoza. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely, that this Diego Coría is the same Diego Coría that was a conquistador. I believe that it is much more likely that he is a son, or even grandson of Diego Coria the conquistador. Or the dates on the conquistador are way off. What we do have is the Lopez Peralta line going way back, and the only question is which of the daughters that became nuns was first married to Diego Coria. One of the possible sisters becomes a nun after being involved in the Dorantes scandal.
Rick A. Ricci
Hola a todos:
La descendencia de Don Gerónimo López conquistador de México es algo confusa ya que la escritura de Mayorazgo imponía le condición de que el sucesor s fuera hombre o mujer se llamara Jerónimo o Jerónima.
Los descendientes impusieron a sus hijos nombres como: Luis Jerónimo, Juan Gerónimo, Francisco Jerónimo o María Gerónima, Ana Jerónima, etc.
En el caso de la familia Coria creo que si emparentó directamente con la descendencia de Don Gerónimo López, Caballero del Largarto.
sigue
Hola a todos:
Es evidente que los dos conquistadores estaban relacionados ya que hicieron su relación de méritos y servicios juntos:
Información de méritos y servicios Diego de Coria y Jerónimo López, Portal Pares PATRONATO,78-a, N.1, R.5
Hay una diversa información que fue realizada a petición de Gerónimo López para hacer constar su posesión sobre "Chapultepeque" que puede verse en línea como:
Información hecha a pedimento del conquistador Jerónimo López 1530-1539 en www.biblioteca.tvEn dicho procedimiento Diego de Coria compareció como testigo a favor de Gerónimo.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
Yo he estudiado la familia de los Lopez de Peralta por muchos años. Primero los estudie por el parentesco con los Sanchez de Velasco. Yo he podido juntar mucha informacíon que explica el Arbol familiar. Yo desciendo de la familia Lopez Peralta.
Donde todavia tengo una duda es " cual Diego de Coria es el que se caso con la hija del tesorero Geronimo Lopez de Peralta (II)?" Cuando genealogos hicieron el error de nombrar a Jeronimo Lopez (1) como el suegro de Diego Coria fue cuando muchos genealogos Hacen el error de nombra al conquistador diego de Coria como el suegro, pero creo que es mas probable que el esposo es hijo o nieto del " Viego"
Gracias,
Ricardo
Hola Ricardo:
Creo que puedes tener razón, ya que Don Gerónimo nació en el siglo XV. Ya había leído sobre esta familia y su herencia en Salvatierra, Guanajuato, recuerdo una gigantesca hacienda abandonada, pero realmente no la he estudiado.
Las fechas que conozco son muy generales y se encuentran en la sección Gen-mex de la página bisabuelos.com en donde dice que Don Gerónimo se casó con Doña Ana Carrillo de Peralta, descendiente de la casa de Falces. Para saber con precisión con quien se casó cada quien -algunos se casaban varias veces- sería necesario conocer los testamentos o los contratos de matrimonio.
Encontré en Familysearch que el día 7 de enero de 1544 se bautizó a Alonso, hijo de Diego de Coria e Isabel de Chávez. Creo que se trata del conquistador pues los padrinos son varios y todos importantes: Don Juan Negrete, Arcediano, Don Diego (no pude leerlo) Chantre, Don Álvaro Timiño maestre escuela y Don Rafael de Cervantes, tesorero.
En aquella época se designaba a los sobrinos, yernos y nueras como "hijos", existen varias cartas del siglo XVI que así lo demuestran. Incluso los maridos se referían a sus esposas como "hija mía". Las viudas de los conquistadores se volvían a casar con los compañeros del marido. Así que requiere mucha paciencia determinar quien fue el marido.
Podríamos consultar el libro de Los Encomenderos de Himmerich a ver si menciona algo.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola de nuevo:
Diego de Coria nació hacia 1500 en Alcalá e Guadaira, Sevilla hijo de Alonso de Coria y Leonor Rodríguez, casó tres veces:
Esposa 1.- Violante Rodríguez hacia 1527.
Esposa 2.- Isabel de Chávez hacia 1536, hija del conquistador Hernando de Chávez.
Esposa 3.- María de Mendoza hacia 1549, hija del conquistador Gerónimo López y de su primera esposa Elvira Álvarez de Mendoza.
Hijos: Hernando, Alonso, Manuel y Diego.
Gerónimo López, conquistador y vecino de Colima también se casó tres veces:
Esposa 1.- Elvira Álvarez de Mendoza con quien tuvo dos hijas: María Concepción y Ana, ambas de Mendoza.
Esposa 2.- Catalina Álvarez de Contreras con quien tuvo a Gerónimo López El Mozo que fue quien se casó con Ana Carrillo de Peralta.
Esposa 3.- Mencía de Rivera con quien tuvo siete hijos.
Fuente: libro (online) "Los testigos hablan.La conquista de Colima y sus informantes". Margarita Nettel Ros p. 227
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
El error que hemos hecho muchos genealogos es revolver la informacíon.
Diego de Coria el conquistador se caso con su tercera esposa, Maria Mendoza, hija de conquistador Geronimo Lopez (1).
Otro Diego Coria, hijo o nieto del conquistador, se caso con una hija de Geronimo Lopez (II) "El Mozo" y Ana Carillo de Peralta.
La hija se fue de Monja despues de quedar viuda.
Como Mendoza aparece en la descendencia de la familia, genealogos hacen el error de pensar de que la linea viene de Maria Mendoza, la tercera esposa del conquistador Diego Coria. Pero es un gran error. Lo Mendoza de Los "Coria y Lopez Peralta viene por una linea materna de una abuela de los Peralta.
Yo he verificado la linea de los Lopez Peralta. El problema sigue siendo "cual de Los tres hombres nombrado Diego de Coria es esposo de la hija de Geronimo Lopez (II) el Mozo, ( tambien conocido como el tesorero)?"
Como queda viuda, y se hace monja, yo creo que es mas probable que el marido es Diego Coria (II), el hijo del conquistador Diego Coria (I) y no el nieto Diego Coria (III).
No se si es verdad que el conquistador Diego Coria se caso con la hija del Conquistador Geronimo Lopez. Creo que es posible que estan confundiendo la informacíon con el Diego Coria Casado con la hija de Geronimo Lopez (II).
Gracias,
Ricardo
Hola Ricardo:
Pues yo creo que es correcta la información de la autora porque revisó todas las informaciones de méritos y servicios y los documentos antiguos, así como varios autores.
Creo que Gerónimo López I al nacer alrededor de 1500 se casó en terceras nupcias con María de Mendoza, él con 49 años y ella con más de veinte; y que por lo tanto Diego de Coria I fue el suegro de Gerónimo López I.
Esto no impide que las dos familias volvieran a entroncar en la generación siguiente o que se casaran con alguna persona de apellido similar, como Mendoza. Seguramente en el Archivo General de la Nación existen los documentos del mayorazgo López de Peralta, pero la Guía General sigue inactiva y hay problemas políticos por una ley de censura a los archivos históricos que se está proponiendo. Entonces resulta que debemos de esperar a que la reactiven.
Voy a revisar dos árboles genealógicos que están en Geneanet, uno Chantal Laurent y otro de Guillermo Tovar y de Teresa (monardes) posiblemnte contengan alguna información.
Saludos
Marcelina
En el trabajo "Jerónimo López: un conquistador entre la reivindicación y el arbitrismo.
de Isabel Arenas Frutos visible en acuedi.org/ddata/9648PDF se analiza el testamento y la historia de sus hijas, en donde se menciona la que fue monja y que Baltasar Dorantes de Carranza la desengañó, no se llega a hablar de Diego de Coria.
Se confirma lo de los tres matrimonios de Gerónimo López. En el mensaje anterior expresé la relación contraria entre Gerónimo y Diego, sorry.
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
Yo tengo mucha informacíon sober esta familia. Yo tengo la informacíon de Guillermo Tovar de Teresa sobre esta familia. tambien tengo informacíon de los hijos y nietos de Geronimo Lopez (II) el Mozo (el tesorero) y su esposa Ana Carillo de Peralta. Tambien he Corregido un error sobre la ascendencia de Ana Carillo de Peralta.
Saludos,
Ricardo
Creo que usted esta en lo correcto es la hipótesis mas apegada a la realidad .
1). Diego Coría Married to Maria Mendoza aka Ana de San Bernardo
2). Diego Coría y Mendoza Peralta and wife unknown at this time
3). Manuel Coría Peralta married to Catalina Lomelin
The family of Maria Mendoza guides the possible birth dates.
Maria Mendoza is most likely the sister that took the religious name Ana de San Bernardo when she became a nun.
Maria Mendoza Lopez De Peralta is born after 1567, most likely born in 1576, ninth born to Jeronimo el mozo. (There was one set of twins before her.)
#2 Diego Coría Mendoza Lopez Peralta s born after 1591
# 3 Manuel Coria Peralta born Circa 1607
Even though it is stated that the Diego Coría that marries the daughter of Jeronimo Lopez el tesorero, is the conquistador, it seems unlikely, though not impossible. He would have been very old. What is significant is that Jeronimo Lopez de Peralta and his daughter are identified as such and that they are identified by a relation of theirs. By a relation that knew the daughters well. The ancestry and descent of the Lopez Peralta is well documented.
It is written that Manuel was from the first marriage and is not son of Maria Mendoza. If this is true then Manuel does not have Peralta as part of his surname. Then the son Diego Coría y Mendoza is the father of Manuel Coría Peralta that is married to Catalina Lomelin. So it would look like this:
1) Alonso Coría and Leonor Rodriguez
2) Diego Coría y Rodriguez. El Viejo. Married to Maria Mendoza Peralta
3) Diego Coría y Mendoza Peralta and wife unknown at this time
4) Manuel Coría Peralta married to Catalina Lomelin
The family of Maria Mendoza guides the possible birth dates of # 3 and # 4.
# 4 Manuel Most likely born circa 1590/1600
Catalina de Soria b.1547 Torrijos, Espana married to Gaspar de Villanueva Sandoval (Torrijos, Espana)arrived sometime before 1579 (Baltazar de Villanueva Sandoval possibly first born) Also Felipe de Peralta accused Baltazar of gambling lots of money September of 1623.
I found this information in Diccionario Biografico de los Antiguos Pobladores de San Luis Potosi, by Rafael Morales Bocardo
Not sure if it helps.
Dear Simona,
Although it is very possible that he is related to the Coría family that I am writing about, she does not descend from the Lopez Peralta family. Geronimo Lopez y Alvarez Cabrera married to Ana Carrillo de Peralta married after she was born, and their daughter that married the Coría family is born after the marriage and she was not one of the first born. Maria Mendoza was younger than at least one brother and sister as they are identified a as such.
The information you are providing is interesting and I will follow up on it to see if there is any relation to the Corias and Peraltas in my family.
Thanks for providing the info,
Rick A. Ricci
I forgot to add that if this Dorantes Carranza is the same man that was involved n a scandalous incident with one of Jeronimo Lopez's daughters then he would know if Diego Coría had married into this family. He was a relation that had to run for his life before things calmed down and he got away with just paying a big fine. Due to his actions and others doing the same thing, the Catholic Church changed a rule concerning marriage. The daughter that he was involved with eventually became a nun.
Marcelina may know more about him if he is the same man as he was also involved with a daughter from the Laguna Bravo family. A member of the Peralta family married a member of the Laguna Bravo family so they too were related to the Lopez Peralta family
Since Diego Coría el viejo has a son named Diego Coría, it is possible that people have confused the two and it is the younger Diego Coria that is the one that marries Maria Mendoza. The problem with this theory though is that the younger Diego Coria is said to be the son of Maria Mendosa. There were at least three Diego Corias, el viejo, el menor, and a grandson (III) in a row. Due to the very large age difference between Diego Coría and Maria Mendoza Peralta, you would think that it is more likely that she is married to his son, so then she couldn't be his mother. But since people do have Maria Mendoza married to el viejo. The only possible way for this to be true would have been for him to have been married to her at what we would call retirement age and she would have been a young teenager. Before people start saying that it would have been impossible I will add that my own father remarried at retirement age and had at least five more children as he had five more children with his second wife. Five.
Diego Coría el viejo
Some of the dates that I read on the Diego Coría (el viejo) that marries Maria Mendoza, daughter of Jeronimo Lopez cannot be true.
Diego Coría 'el viejo' is the son of Alonso Coría and Leonor Rodriguez.
(His mother remarries after becoming a widow and has issue from the second marriage).
Diego Coría el viejo has a first marriage to Isabel Chavez, a daughter of Conquistador Hernando de Chavez (5 children) (Hernando Chavez is a brother to conquistador Gutierre de Badajoz). It seems that Isabel Chavez dies while giving birth to their last child in 1550.
Diego el viejo is then said to marry Maria Mendoza, a daughter of Jeronimo Lopez el tesorero.
The problems with what genealogists are taking as facts begin here. It looks like genealogists are mistakenly saying that Diego's father in law is the elder "viejo Jeronimo Lopez. The father has three wives and one of them is surnamed Alvarez Mendoza. Some genealogist mistakenly believe that Maria Mendoza is her daughter. Once they make the mistake of confusing who the father is, they compound this mistake by giving Maria Mendoza a much earlier birthdate, further mixing up the information.
Since Jeronimo Lopez el mozo is her father, she could not have been married in 1551 to Diego Coría el viejo since she had not been born yet. Since the Peralta in the surname comes from Jeronimo el Mozo's second wife, Maria Mendoza has to be from the second wife, Diego Coría el viejo was a very old man when he married Maria Mendoza who had to have been very young when this marriage takes place. Then, since most of Jeronimo's daughters are recorded as becoming nuns when her father is writing his testament, then she must have become a nun once she is widowed. But since the names of his daughters that became nuns are only known to us by their religious name, we are unable to find out which one was originally baptized Maria Mendoza. The Mendoza surname comes from a greatgrandparent from the Peralta side of the family.
Since Diego Coría el viejo is an old man and has a very young wife, the son of his that is named Manuel Coría could very well have been the Manuel Coría Peralta married to Catalina Lomelin.
What we know for sure is that Diego Coría el Viejo is the father or grandfather of Manuel Coría Peralta married to Catalina Lomelin. But since now we know that he was very old when he was having children, the two Manuels may be the same person.
If Diego Coría el viejo was born circa 1505, marries his first wife in 1534, becomes a widower in 1550, then he marries a very young Maria Mendoza when he is in his sixties or seventies, then His son Manuel could well have been having children in the 1620's and 1630's.
Some genealogist have a different line then the one I have put together. They have the Manuel Coría Peralta married to Catalina Lomelin as the son of Juan Alonso Coría Peralta, and grandson of Diego Coría and Maria Mendoza Lopez Peralta. As I wrote before, son and grandson both fit in the timelines. But only the correct timelines with the very old Diego el viejo marrying a very young Maria Mendoza, daughter of Jeronimo Lopez "el mozo", and whose mothers birth dates and marriage dates help date her.
Ignacio,
Me podías esclarecer la genealogía que mencionaste sobre los Soria desde el más antiguo hasta nuestro Manuel de Soria Peralta, inclusive el vínculo entre Gerónimo López, según el libro Relación de Conquistadores que utilizaste? Discúlpame por no comprender muy bien. Gracias antemano. Tengo algunos fuentes que te interesará de los Archivos de Valladolid. Sobre todas estas familias: Villaseñor, López de Peralta, Figueroa, etc. Sé que el grupo es estrictamente de la Nueva Galicia más esta familia está tan vinculado tanto en ella como en el Obispado de Michoacán.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Ignacio,
Que interesante el fuente que encontraste sobre la genealogía de D. Diego de Soria. Ahora, bien, parece que el Gerónimo López de Peralta, talvez sea vinculado con el mismo Gerónimo López de Peralta quien fundo el Mayorazgo de los López de Peralta. Le he estudiado bien y revisaré mis fuentes para ver si tal vínculo existe o la posibilidad. La única cosa que me preocupa es el tiempo que los dos vivieron. Sobre los Soria también sé la posibilidad que fuesen descendientes de las Doce Linajes de Soria que es otra tema extensiva para abordar en otra ocasión. Me puedes enviar el fuente que tienes sobre aquel libro a mi correo electrónico. mendezdetorres@hotmail.com
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Carlos Peredo
Hola Daniel e Ignacio
Me parece que la fuente de que habla Ignacio es el libro de Dorantes de Carranza "Sumaria Relación de las Cosas de la Nueva España" que está en la red. Es un libro muy interesante ya que lo escribió el hijo de aquel legendario explorador de la malograda expedición que se perdió en Florida y después de como tres años los únicos sobrevivientes (Dorantes Carranza Sr. , un esclavo mulato que creo se llamaba Estevanico y otro español que no recuerdo) llegaron a Sinaloa donde había una avanzada de españoles. Recuerdo que se relata que llegaron casi desnudos y renegridos por el sol y apenas vivos. Me parece que el libro fue escrito a principios de los 1,600´s.
El libro que yo bajé de internet fue publicado en 1902 paleografiado por Don José María de Agreda y Sánchez y tiene una anotación manuscrita en que alguien señala que el original se escribió en 1604.
En mi opinión es posible que algunos capítulos los halla escrito Don Baltazar Dorantes en ese año de 1604, sin embargo, hay un capítulo en que habla del Marqués de Toral y ese título se concedió hasta 1616 según recuerdo y al cual me referiré en otro post de micho interés para los descendientes de Pedro Ruíz de Haro.
Este Diego de Coria me parece que no tiene ninguna relación con los Soria; de él, Dorantes Carranza nos relata que vino con Cortés a América, que peleó en Tenochtitlán, en Honduras, en Oaxaca y luego fue nombrado alférez de Nueva Galicia y Escribano y que en esa conquista hizo una hazaña derrotando a una multitud de indios que estaban en una isla (Peñol) y por ese hecho el rey le concedió el 15-abr-1540 un escudo de armas.
Desglosa Dorantes la descendencia del dicho Diego de Coria diciendo que tuvo tres hijos : Alonso de Coria, Manuel de Coria y el tercero llamado Diego de Coria del cual dice Dorantes que es nieto de Gerónimo López- me imagino que es hijo de una segunda esposa la cual sería hija de Gerónimo López.
Dice además que otros descendientes que vivían en la Casa original de Diego de Coria eran Domingo de Cebreros, yerno; tres nietos llamados Diego de Coria, Joan Alonso de Peralta y Hernando de Coria.
Además de los anteriores, dice que vivían en dicha casa dos bisnietos : Hernando de Coria y Francisco de Coria y al final menciona otro nieto "Hernando de Trejo por la mujer"
Al final a manera de rúbrica dice "Ligitimos" , dando a entender que todos los listados son de matrimonio.
Este Diego de Coria fue probablemente bisabuelo de Manuel de Coria y Peralta el que casó por 1630 con Catarina de Lomelín pareja que aparece en el libro de "Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid" , como vecinos de Jiquilpan y que tuvieron dos hijas :
Catarina de Coria Lomelín y Peralta vecina de Jiquilpan que casó en 1656 en Zamora, Mich. con José de la Brambila y Arriaga, de los que he localizado 8 hijos bautizados en Teocuitatlán y uno en Cocula.
Bernarda de Coria Lomelín y Peralta de la que localicé su partida de bautizo en 25-oct-1632 en Chilchota, Mich. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19461-84161-47?cc=1883388&wc…
Ella casó por 1656 con José de Villaseñor Figueroa y en 1657 el 22 de Noviembre a su hija María en Teocuitatlán que al parecer murió niña porque en 1663 bautizan otra María también en Teocuitatlán la cual casó por 1683 con Francisco de Cuevas Carvajal.
Unos hijos o sobrinos de Catalina de Coria Lomelín y Peralta fueron ricos dueños de una enorme Hacienda llamada Coapa cercana a Pátzcuaro cuyo hermoso casco se puede apreciar en la red; se llamaban Juan y Joseph de Coria y Peralta que nacieron por 1660.
Me interesaría encontrar el parentesco de los anteriores con el conquistador Diego de Coria ya que de ambos hermanos descendieron sendas mujeres que casaron en 1736 y en 1755 con dos Peredos que deben ser mis parientes lejanos.
Saludos
Carlos A. Peredo
Muchas gracias! por la información tengo la seguridad que sera de gran ayuda,a los que, estamos en esta búsqueda. tengo en mi Árbol a la Tia Bernardina y a algunas de sus Hijas espero le sea de alguna ayuda .estaré en la Sagrada Mitra de Gudalajara e tiene algún consejo sobre los datos que allá puedo obtener? aquí tiene las Hijas de Bernardina Lomelin de Coria Peralta y Joseph de Villaseñor Figueroa Dorothea Villaseñor Lomelin nació el 24 Mar 1659 en Teocuitatlan de Corona, Jalisco, Mexico
Franca. Figueroa Coria nació el 23 Mayo 1660 en Teocuitatlan de Corona, Jalisco, Mexico
Maria de Villaseñor Lomelín nació el 3 Mayo 1663 en Teocuitatlan de Corona, Jalisco, Mexico Juana Villaseñor Lomelin nació el Feb 19 1667 en TEOCUITATLAN DE CORONA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Marcela Villasenor Lomellin nació el año de 1664 en Sayula Jalisco Mexico.
la única que! nació en Sayula fue casada con el Señor Capitán Bartolome de Llerena y Ayala contador de la caja real de Guadalajara. procreando
a:
Nicolassa Antonia Llerena Villaseñor
n. 25 septiembre 1688, b. 12 octubre 1688 san Francisco de Asis, Jocotepec, Jalisco. Capitán Bartolome de Llerena y Ayala se casó (viudo de Marcela de Villaseñor Lomelin) 31 agosto 1670 sagrario metropolitano, Guadalajara con Francisca de Renteria Bocanegra.
Thank you for this information. I have been concentrating my efforts recently on the Brambila y Arriaga family in Michoacán and Jalisco. Are there any possibilities that the documents from Michoacán will be indexed in the near future?
Deedra Corona
yo solo encontré esta pagina por Internet pero no sabia el de este libro ,pero el Sr Señor Carlos A. Peredo fue tan gentil de darnos una pista mejor dicho el nombre de el libro. libro de Dorantes de Carranza "Sumaria Relación de las Cosas de la Nueva España"
Hello. I'm trying to trace my lineage to Lope de ruiz esparza. I started in Guadalajara where my dad is from, to Cocula, to Amatlan in Nayarit.
I couldn't really find anything except the sons marriage, although it looks like the actual last name is Barbosa, so its probably the mother that's named Esparza. sorry i couldnt help
Hello,
you should just post the link so several people can see it and help you
Here is the ink to the parish record that I would like help transcribing.
Thanks very much,
Yo
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0h53nhlqk49pu6/Screen%20Shot%202018-06-26%20…
the part that i can read say:
En ______ (ma)yo de mil setecientos y veinte años, el licenciado ______ cura _____ Juez Eclesiástico de esta villa, case y vele in facie (ecclesiae) por palabras de presente y de su mutuo consentimiento habiendo precedido las tres amonestaciones y de mas diligencias que ordena y manda el santo concilio a Thomas de Ochoa, español ____ (con) (Jua)na Maria Verdugo, española vecina de este real, estando presentes, el ___ don Joseph Subiate y don Joseph de la Campa y ____ don Alonso Montaño y otros muchos presentes y para que conste (lo firme) Ut Supra
Thanks, I really appreciate your help - I'm also looking at these other names to see if I can find any other family links by looking at military musters. I've found de la Campa and Montano in military musters.
Thank you again for helping me,
Yo
If matrimonial investigations exist for this parish in this time period, it will have information not in the marriage record. In some parishes many of the early matrimonial investigations are missing, and they are often not in chronological order. For a marriage without complications, that is no dispensation, they are often 4-6 weeks prior to the marriage.
George,
I checked and there doesn't look like there's any IM's for that parish. But yes the matrimonial investigations are usually a great help. Especially the one's you did for Aguascalientes. I use them all the time.
In 1719 in chihuahua theres a marriage for a Joseph de la Campa and Josepha de Subiate. The Joseph de la Campa is probably the same one as on your record. He's also probably the brother in law to the Joseph de Subiate on your record, who im guessing is the brother of the bride Josepha de Subiate.
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JH51-B5F : 10 February 2018), Josseph De La Campa and Maria Jossepha De Subiate, 25 Mar 1719; citing El Sagrario,Chihuahua,Chihuahua,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 162,689.
Good Evening,
I've recently run across an 1839 Padrones for Asientos, Aguas. on FamilySearch.
Went through it all and found some useful information.
Hello,
Just wanted to say thank you to all of you who have signed up to help! We're following up with you offline to get the ball rolling. If you wish to help, please send an email to
valladoliddispensas@googlegroups.com
Deedra, when you get a chance, can you send us email to that above address and we'll get you added to the group?
Thank You,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Hello,
It's been a little over a year since I first posted about starting the Valladolid (Morelia, Michoacan) dispensa project. I'm very happy to report that we've just indexed our 100th film!
I wanted to publicly thank all the volunteers that have made this possible so quickly! We have a long way to go, but, we've made good progress and for that I thank each and every one of you who have helped!
For everyone else, if you haven't checked out the website, please check it out. While your focus might be on the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes... You'll be surprised to find out that some of our/your ancestors from Jalisco, etc had roots in the Obispado de Michoacan, i.e. modern-day Michoacan, Colima, San Luis Potosi, Guanajuato, and Guerrero. Please come on over and as we have a nice selection of indexed films from the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s.
Here's the link to website:
https://www.valladoliddispensas.com
Thank You,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Thanks, Daniel, for your hard work-- I know what it takes to do this labor of love.
Rosalinda
This is tremendous. Thank you so much for your hard work.
On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 6:13 AM wrote:
> Thanks, Daniel, for your hard work-- I know what it takes to do this labor
> of
> love. Rosalinda
>
It is a labor of love and I owe a huge part to our volunteers who have done an amazing job of helping out. They made it possible to get to 100 indexed films so quickly!
Daniel Serna Valencia
We all appreciate it, Daniel. This will help everyone with their research.
Chris
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018, 5:38 PM, themexican@outlook.com wrote:
It is a labor of love and I owe a huge part to our volunteers who have done
an amazing job of helping out. They made it possible to get to 100 indexed
films so quickly! Daniel Serna Valencia
Count on me!
I also shared your project on my Facebook page "Historias y Genealogía" and invited my subscribers to join in.
Good luck,
Enrique Agraz
Lo haremos primo!
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 3, 2017, at 3:20 PM, "enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com" wrote:
>
> Count on me! I also shared your project on my Facebook page "Historias y
> Genealogía" and invited my subscribers to join in. Good luck, Enrique Agraz
>
so far i've been trying to finish up the 1787 ones(and am about done with the main 1787 one). i may do the 1807 one next.
Count me in, I have tried to get a group together on to finish extracting the Guadalajara and Valladolid dispensas and other pertinent records.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
I’ll help out too
> On Apr 1, 2017, at 4:25 PM, mendezdetorres@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Count me in, I have tried to get a group together on to finish extracting the
> Guadalajara and Valladolid dispensas and other pertinent records. Daniel
> Méndez de Torres y Camino
>
The Real Audencia Government of Guadalajara, Nueva Espana (Jalisco, Mexico) had political jurisdiccion over several provinces during Nueva Espana days.
Other part of Real Audiencia archives is in Archivo Municipal de Guadalajara
Adress: Calle Esmeralda 2486, Col. Victoria, Guadalajara, Jal.
I do not why but the archive was separetly in tw parts, Juan Jose Arreola Library and Archivo Municipal de Guadalajara
Hi.
As far as I know, the Juan Jose Arreola Public Library is the institution that guards the "Archivo de la Real Audiencia de la Nueva Galicia".
The catalogue is online, but if you want to read the documents then you have to go.
Cheers.
http://www.bpej.udg.mx/archivo-real-audiencia
the term castizo was rarely used in my experience. usually those 1/4 native and 3/4 spanish were called espanol
Hi,
This last one comment is correct a Castizo is the child of a Spanish with a Mestizo (1/2 native and 1/2 Spanish) so the child would be as Katy said 1/4 native and 3/4 Spanish. and if a Castizo married a Spanish their child would be Spanish.
As Katy said normally Castizos were passed as Spanish anyway. Thats why you don’t see very often the word Castizo in the church records.
The Castas were very important back then, and if you read carefully the baptize and marriage records especially before 1820’s, you can read words like: Indio, Coyote, Mulato, Lobo, Mestizo, Español. All this words are Castas, they represent the mix mainly between Spanish, Natives and Africans. They were many more Castas, but I think this ones are the most common ones to be found in the church records.
Sometimes the priest wasn’t sure to which Casta someone may belong to. That was probably because he or she was already very mixed, so a priest may use one Casta for this person, and in time the same priest may select different Casta for the same person in a different event, or another priest may select a different Casta for this person.
Mulato is a mix between Spanish and African, but some times a child of a Castizo with a Mulato could be passing as Castizo, Mulato, Mestizo or Spanish.
Not long ago I came across some records where the mother was Spanish, the father Mulato, therefore their children Casta should be Morisco, instead of Morsico. one child was baptize and recorded as Mulato, four children were baptize and recorded as Mestizo, and other three were baptize without recording their Casta, probably because they were visibly white, I founded their later marriage records and their Casta were recorded as Spanish.
.
Regards,
the term morisco was rarely used also. usually they were written down as being mulato or espanol.
note:occasionaly, someone with less than 3/4 spanish/espanol , would be written down as being espanol depending on legitimacy, social class they were born into, time period, the race/ethnicity of the godparents, and even possibly depending on the scribe who wrote down the record.
Hi Andelmo,
I think, during that era, they would sometimes use "casta/s" to mean any of the "lower" castes, like Mestizo, Mulato, Morisco, etc. Though, I'm not sure!
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
I agree with Manny. There are other cases such as this one. It seems that casta was often the default category used by record keepers for individuals of seemingly mixed but undetermined ancestry.
Greetings to all,
Has anyone any experience with My Heritage?
I'd like to know if a membership is a worthwhile
thing to do towards furthering research in Mexico
and Spain.
Thanks so much,
Hello,
I have my heritage and ancestry. Honestly, I use family search most. While my heritage seems to aggregate lots of info from many sources, the search function is really bad, yielding irrelevant info. It’s like searching for a needle in a haystack. I find it frustrating. The MH tree builder is nice though.
Ancestry helps sometimes through the hint feature but usually it’s docs i´ve seen. It’s helpful to surface docs on lines you are not actively working on. The search function also not the best so the hints can sometimes be totally off.
All in all, family search is really the only one I couldn’t do without.
Maven
Hi There,I agree. I've always used family search, but just wondered if my heritage had something to offer--worth paying for. I was kind of interested because theysay they offer Smart Matches that find connections between your and other users family trees,Consistency checker that scans family tree and finds inconsistencies and mistakes in your data. I'm always looking for help with brick walls or just plain serendipity!Thanks so much for your response on your experience.Alice BB
On Friday, June 1, 2018 10:18 PM, "pavendano@earthlink.net" wrote:
Hello, I have my heritage and ancestry. Honestly, I use family search most.
While my heritage seems to aggregate lots of info from many sources, the
search function is really bad, yielding irrelevant info. It’s like
searching for a needle in a haystack. I find it frustrating. The MH tree
builder is nice though. Ancestry helps sometimes through the hint feature but
usually it’s docs i´ve seen. It’s helpful to surface docs on lines you
are not actively working on. The search function also not the best so the
hints can sometimes be totally off. All in all, family search is really the
only one I couldn’t do without. Maven
When I need to search for something on Ancestry.com I just go to my local public library and use their institutional account. It has a feature that allows one to send any record to one's email for later access.
i can always search ancestry if someone needs me to look there. my email is dcalonso97@gmail.com
I'm not sure it would be worthwhile. I have ancestry.com and it's helped me a little but most of it I could've just done with familysearch. I would say probably not worthwhile.
Hello,
I was aware of the Ancestry situation, but I was hoping that since FamilytreeDNA
partners with My Heritage, it might be different. I guess I'm always hoping of
finding help to break through the brick walls.
Thanks so much.
ABB
Alice
you should just tell us who you're stuck on and maybe we could help
I have this couple, except the husband I have is Pablo Ortiz. Two children: Ana Ortiz and Phelipe Ortiz. No parents.
Hi Deedra,
That is the same couple he’s looking for. Pedro Ortiz and Catalina Ramirez had Ana Ortiz that married Bernabe Ruiz de Esparza and Felipe Ortiz that married Josefa de Avila. I believe that Pablo is basically a typo.
Chris
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:43 PM, DEEDRA CORONA wrote:
I have this couple, except the husband I have is Pablo Ortiz. Two children: Ana Ortiz and Phelipe Ortiz. No parents. The information I have is from Matrimonial record of their daughter to son of Lope Ruiz de Esparsa. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51650-25?cc=1410092&…
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Today's Topics:
1. Pedro Ortiz and Catalina Ramirez (Danny Alonso)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:34:41 -0700
From: Danny Alonso
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro Ortiz and Catalina Ramirez
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
I?m wondering if someone is familiar with the couple Pedro Ortiz and
Catalina Ramirez, they would?ve been born towards the end of the 1500s or
early 1600s in Aguascalientes probly. Does anyone know anything about them
or who their parents are?
--
Danny C. Alonso
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
I’m wondering if someone is familiar with the couple Pedro Ortiz and
Catalina Ramirez, they would’ve been born towards the end of the 1500s or
early 1600s in Aguascalien
Hi Danny,
I don’t know Pedro Ortiz and Catalina Ramirez’s origins, but they baptized Ana on 2 Jul 1623, in San Matias, Pinos, Zac. Her padrino was Melchor de Espinosa. Ana is likely the same who married Bernabe Ruiz de Esparza, 11 May 1643, in Ags.
Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you Manny. This is good information.
I had the idea that there were a number of books during the colonial days of Mexico.
So I did a search in the Pars website archive for "libros"
Daily Life in Colonial Mexico: The Journey of Friar Ilarione da Bergamo, 1761-1768
The majority of the documents I use are basic sacramental records, and unfortunately they contain very little information about our ancestors’ daily lives in the colonial era. So, I forgot how, but one day I came across Friar Ilarione’s book and wound up reading it twice because it helped me imagine and picture what life was like back then. It helped that his life’s story is somewhat interesting too. I recommend it.
http://tlanestli.blogspot.com/2011/10/primeros-impresores-en-mexico-sig…
En ésta liga se puede leer cuáles fueron los primeros libros que se imprimieron en la Nueva España.
Por otro lado, para saber más sobre la vida privada puede leerse la Sumaria Relación sobre las cosas de la Nueva España de Baltasar Dorantes de Carranza. Hay un libro de John Super sobre la vida en el México colonial.
Saludos
Marcelina
I am curious if anyone knows where esclavos were sold in the Nueva Galicia area such as Zacatecas, Jalisco, Aguasclientes.
Hola Antonio:
Te recomiendo que visites el sitio web Historias y recuerdos de Encarnación de Díaz, en donde hay un capítulo denominado "Esclavos o libres". El autor hace un recuento sobre la esclavitud y señala algunos libros de historiadores que han investigado sobre la esclavitud.
Se sabe que la familia Lomelin que vivía en Mexticacán tenían licencia para importar y vender esclavos. Otro lugar en donde hubo gran cantidad de esclavos fue en Ciénega de Mata.
Hace poco estaba haciendo la genealogía de un tío político y encontré varios esclavos entre sus ancestros, unos del rancho Paso de Cuarenta de la familia Muñoz de Xeres y otros de "Las negritas" cerca de el Sáuz de los Macías, actualmente, Encarnación de Díaz.
Saludos
Marcelina
There are documents concerning slaves, such as documents about sale, in the Aguascalientes government archives.
Several years ago there was discussion of the Aguascalientes archives here at NR, for example
The login for the Aguascalientes archives is at
http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/AXWeb/Login.aspx?IgnoreNTAutoLogin=T…
Please see the previous postings of Miguel Beltran Romo of March 2, 2011, and my post of "AHEA: Wildcard searches" on March 16th on how do do a search.
29 years ago I found a bill of sale to one of my wife’s ancestors with the surname Casillas. The sale was made in Jalisco.
R.A.Ricci
Hi,
I don't understand what they are doing to the cactus here and there is a drawing on the last page:
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/18412
Hola a todos:
La grana cochinilla fue un parásito que crece en las plantas de nopal y en otras plantas, se muele para extraer una tintura roja que era utilizada para teñir telas, especialmente la seda y hacer los trajes de los obispos y cardenales. La nobleza también demandaba estas telas por eso fue una actividad muy apreciada.
Saludos
Marcelina
I found three different marriage records for Andrés de la Torre and Marcela de Araiza and I am trying to make sense of them.
they're all the same people. if you look at the informacion matrimonial dated december 26, 1720, you can see that the parents are the same:
Thank you for your help! This is exactly what I needed.
Hi,
I have tried looking up Haltillero (spelling?) and Tepetitiq (spelling?) near Nochistlan and have come up empty. I put the links below.
Hi Don,
the second one is Tepetiltic, which is near Nochistlán, The first one is probably Astillero, which is also near Nochistlán.
Chris
Hello,
i'm not sure where they got that info. from? probably another incorrect piece of information on him, just like the trees that claim he had a son named hernan gonzalez y berrocal, or that tree that claimed his son pedro married isabel delgado(more than likely the pedro who married isabel was his grandson(a son of his son pedro) )
I'm on the same boat. I'm guessing if the info is correct could be an immigration record or a will. Can't find either. Please keep me posted if you find anything. I will do the same.
thanks
susana
I have a Pedro Huizar on my family tree. But I am curious of a Pedro Huizar that appears on this link of Texas history that says he was born in Aguascalientes, Mexico in 1740:
I have a Pedro Huizar on my family tree. But I am curious of a Pedro Huizar that appears on this link of Texas history that says he was born in Aguascalientes, Mexico in 1740:
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