Good day.
I hope all are well. I am searching for a birth record for Francisco Antonio Gallaga Mandarte Villaseñor. Here is the link to his marriage record
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KMS6-D6?i=347&wc=3J8D-4WG%3A173142401%2C171933302%2C176026201&cc=1874591
Your help would be very much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Sandra
Hello everyone,
My name is Edward Rojano, a new member and I wanted to introduce myself.
I started researching my family tree just a few years ago, specifically my direct paternal lineage from Jalisco. I didn’t really know much of our family history past my great grandfather. So I started with my grandfather, gathering names of parents and grandparents from birth, marriage and death registrations on Family Tree. Slowly, my family tree started coming together and as you can see below, I belong to the Cornejo family from Jalostotitlan, in the Los Altos region of what is now Jalisco.
Lately, I have been researching and trying to obtain more information on Antonio Cornejo Riojano, born in 1658 as per Dr. Mariano González-Leal in tomo III of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. I have been unable to find documents which definitively name and show Alonso Cornejo as his father, as is believed. Also, I have been trying to find the source his Riojano surname that was often used along with
Rick, Edward's no. 12 is my 8th great-grandfather :) Btw, what is the source for saying he was born in Chalco?
Thank you, Rick Fernández! That is very cool we share a great grandparent.
Saludos Edward y Leonardo,
Saludos Leonardo y Edward,
After reading the nobilario, I had more questions in my mind that led me back to Leonardo’s and Edward’s questions regarding the Osorio ancestry, so I went back to my notes and did more research. I had originally told Edward that I believed that the Rojano/Riojano surname came from a “de Rojas” ancestry in our Osorio line. But when I went back to look at out ancestral line with Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as Pedro Alvarez de Osorio’s wife I couldn’t find the Rojas line. Then Leonardo questioned the ancestry. Those thoughts were lingering as a cloud as I read the nobilario. So yes the line starts with Juan Alvarez Osorio and his wife Aldonza de Guzman, but the nobilario doesn’t mention the wives names of Pedro Alvarez Osorio and Alvar Perez Osorio. So I did more research which is hard on this family because there were so many Rodrigo, Alvaro, and Pedro Osorios in the family. And it turns out that I needed to merge some of the Pedro Alvarez Osorios that I had researched. Pedro Alvarez Osorio, son of Juan Alvarez Osorio and Aldonza Guzman, had at least four wives. The book Anales de la Real Academia Matritense de Heraldica y Genealogia IV (1996-1997) does not even list Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as one of his wives, but she is found in other documents as his wife. But this book specifically states that Alvaro Perez Osorio is the son of one of his other wives, Isabel de Rojas (daughter of Martin Sanchez de Rojas III, Señor de Monzon, and his wife Elvira Manrique). This book also says that Alvar Perez Osorio had children with Isabel de Losada out of wedlock.
So the tree looks like this:
1.)- Juan Alvarez Osorio + Aldonza Guzman
2.)- Pedro Alvarez Osorio +
3.)- Alvar Perez Osorio +
4.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices
5.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez
6.)- “el conquistador” Martin Lopez Osorio
1. Edward Rojano
2. Father (living)
3.Pedro Rojano Parra: born 18 October 1921, San Juan de Amula, Jalisco; died 10 October 2024 in Oceanside, CA.
4. Margarito Rojano Castillo: born 10 June 1888 El Límon, Jalisco; died 21 July 1934 in San Juan de Amula, El Límon, Jalisco.
5. Juan Cornejo Garcia (also known as Juan Rojano Garcia): born 26 November 1847 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 27 April 1900 in Ejutla, Jalisco.
6. José Remigio Cornejo Tostado (also known as Remigio Rojano): born 30 September 1824 in Coca, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 17 November 1892 in Ejutla, Jalisco.
7. José Ramón Nonato Cornejo Franco (also known as Ramon Rojano): born 1795 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco
8. José Servando Cornejo Ramírez de Hermosillo: born 1755 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in 1833 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
9. José Fulgencio Cornejo Romo: born January 1730 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 20 January 1793 in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
10. Salvador Cornejo Ramírez: born 1689 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 28 June 1740 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
11. Antonio Cornejo Riojano: born 1658; died 14 June 1732 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
12. Alonso de Cornejo: born about 1600 in Chalco, Mexico; died November 1671 Mexico City.
13. Fernando de Gordíbar Osorio: born about 1550; deceased.
14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573
15.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez
16.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices
17. Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406. +
18. Pedro Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1303 in Reino de Castilla y León; deceased 14 November 1360 en Villanubla, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León. “Era adelantado mayor de tierra de León y Merino de Asturias cuando el rey don Pedro mandó darle muerte en Villanubla el 14 de Noviembre de 1360. MARTÍN FUERTES, Los Osario, op. cit. pág. 29. + Isabel De Rojas, (daughter of Martin Sanchez de Rojas III, Señor de Monzon, and his wife Elvira Manrique).
19. Juan Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1275 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. 1328. + Aldonza Guzman.
20. Álvaro Rodríguez Osorio: born approx. 1235 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. in Benavente, Zamora, Castilla y León 1321.
21. Rodrigo Rodríguez Osorio: born approx.1200 in Astorga, Reino de León; deceased approx 1273. Took part in the conquest of Sevilla against the moors. Figura entre los donadíos adjudicados en el lugar de Bi~ena: a Rodrigo Rodríguez, fijode Rodrigo Osores, quarenta aranzadas e seis yugadas, anno e vez, e cambiarogelo en Behar (pág. 37) e igualmente en Soca~et: a Rodrigo Rodríguez Osores quarenta aranzadas e un par de casas, e cambiogelo despues en Behar (pág. 38). Igualmente figura con otras cuarenta yugadas en Alaquaz, donde es citado tras Diego López de Salcedo y Sancho Martínez de Xodar (pág. 156). En las dos primeras menciones aparece seguido de Martín González, fijo de Gonzalo Osores, y en la segunda se añade su primo (véase GONZÁLEZ, Repartimiento de Sevilla, op. cit. 11).
22. Rodrigo Osorio: born about 1166; deceased approx. From, Los Osorioun Linaje de Mas de Mil Años al Servicio de la Corona por Haime de Salazar y Acha, “XI-RODRIGO OSORIO, del que no sabemos casi nada. Estaba ya muerto en 1261, año en que su viuda y sus hijos pleitearon por San Román de Ornilla. Ella se llamaba doña EL VIRA FERNÁNDEZ<82
82.- Sobre esta generación nos ilustran dos documentos de San Pedro de Montes de 10 de junio de 1261 y de 26 de enero de 1272. El primero es una sentencia de Alfonso X sobre unas pro-
piedades en San Román de Ornilla, tras un pleito entre San Pedró de Montes y donna Elvira Ferrandez e sos fijos Rodrigo Rodriguez e Alvar Rodriguez. El segundo completa el anterior y se trata de la avenencia entre estos últimos,.fiyos de Rodrigo Osoyris e de donna Elvira Fernandez e de su tía donna Orraca Osoyriz e de Martin Gonzalez de Laguna e de suos herederos, con dicho monasterio. Parece claro que el tal Martín González es el primo citado como tal en el repartimiento de Sevilla (véase QUINTANA, San Pedro de Montes, op. cit. docs. 350 y 363, págs. 450 y465).
23. Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.
24. El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.
25. El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.
26. El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.
27. El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.
28. El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.
29. Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).
30. Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.
31. Ecta: born in the first years of 10th century; died unknown
Rick A. Ricci
Book: Mygenes2000
Hello Edward,
Martin Lopez Osorio’s family tree goes much farther in records according to an old book I read many years ago. The book states the the lineage can be found in another book that is at the Smithsonian Library. One day I will make it out there and look for that book.
You and I are fifth cousins.
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Rick Ricci, fifth cousins that’s so cool, thanks so much for reaching out. I had previously read information you had posted when I had been looking into Carlos Lomelín and the Lomellini family, thank you for all that.
Yes, with Martin Lopez Osorio, I was able to trace him back to the Osorio family with the help of a book I purchased titled, El Nobilario de Martín López Osorio by Dr. Clevy Lloyd Strout 1980 and also from a publication titled Los Osorio: Un Linaje de más de Mil Años al Servicio de La Corona by medieval genealogist and historian Jaime Salazar y Acha, as well as another book I found on the Osorio family that I can’t remember right now. Below is what I was able to gather from my direct paternal lineage. I will upload some of the items in my folder here if that helps. I am still trying to figure out the website. Thank you.
Generation:
14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573.
15. Cristobal Díaz Narices Osorio: born approximately 1470 in Sevilla, Spain; deceased.
16. Martín Álvarez Osorio: born unknown in Sevilla, Spain; died unknown.
17. Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406.
18. Pedro Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1303 in Reino de Castilla y León; deceased 14 November 1360 en Villanubla, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León. “Era adelantado mayor de tierra de León y Merino de Asturias cuando el rey don Pedro mandó darle muerte en Villanubla el 14 de Noviembre de 1360. MARTÍN FUERTES, Los Osario, op. cit. pág. 29.
19. Juan Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1275 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. 1328.
20. Álvaro Rodríguez Osorio: born approx. 1235 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. in Benavente, Zamora, Castilla y León 1321.
21. Rodrigo Rodríguez Osorio: born approx.1200 in Astorga, Reino de León; deceased approx 1273. Took part in the conquest of Sevilla against the moors. Figura entre los donadíos adjudicados en el lugar de Bi~ena: a Rodrigo Rodríguez, fijode Rodrigo Osores, quarenta aranzadas e seis yugadas, anno e vez, e cambiarogelo en Behar (pág. 37) e igualmente en Soca~et: a Rodrigo Rodríguez Osores quarenta aranzadas e un par de casas, e cambiogelo despues en Behar (pág. 38). Igualmente figura con otras cuarenta yugadas en Alaquaz, donde es citado tras Diego López de Salcedo y Sancho Martínez de Xodar (pág. 156). En las dos primeras menciones aparece seguido de Martín González, fijo de Gonzalo Osores, y en la segunda se añade su primo (véase GONZÁLEZ, Repartimiento de Sevilla, op. cit. 11).
22. Rodrigo Osorio: born about 1166; deceased approx. From, Los Osorioun Linaje de Mas de Mil Años al Servicio de la Corona por Haime de Salazar y Acha, “XI-RODRIGO OSORIO, del que no sabemos casi nada. Estaba ya muerto en 1261, año en que su viuda y sus hijos pleitearon por San Román de Ornilla. Ella se llamaba doña EL VIRA FERNÁNDEZ<82
82.- Sobre esta generación nos ilustran dos documentos de San Pedro de Montes de 10 de junio de 1261 y de 26 de enero de 1272. El primero es una sentencia de Alfonso X sobre unas pro-
piedades en San Román de Ornilla, tras un pleito entre San Pedró de Montes y donna Elvira Ferrandez e sos fijos Rodrigo Rodriguez e Alvar Rodriguez. El segundo completa el anterior y se trata de la avenencia entre estos últimos,.fiyos de Rodrigo Osoyris e de donna Elvira Fernandez e de su tía donna Orraca Osoyriz e de Martin Gonzalez de Laguna e de suos herederos, con dicho monasterio. Parece claro que el tal Martín González es el primo citado como tal en el repartimiento de Sevilla (véase QUINTANA, San Pedro de Montes, op. cit. docs. 350 y 363, págs. 450 y465).
23. Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.
24. El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.
25. El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.
26. El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.
27. El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.
28. El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.
29. Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).
30. Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.
31. Ecta: born in the first years of 10th century; died unknown.
Hello Edward,
Thank you for the information. I have done much work on the Osorio family and I was hoping to make the connection to the Cornejo lineage by going to Washington DC to get that information that you sent me. I would like to get a hold of El Nobilario de Martín López Osorio by Dr. Clevy Lloyd Strout 1980 and the article you mentioned. Do you know where I can get my hands on them?
I also descend from the Osorio family through my Reynoso ancestry.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci,
Hi Rick,
Of course, thank you! That’s so cool, it is such an interesting history that of the Osorio family and their role in the history of León, the reconquista and the arrival to what is now Mexico. I feel like we are just starting to scratch the surface.
Yes, the Osorio article by Jaime Salazar y Acha I have uploaded the PDF in my folder here along with a few other items.
In regard to the Nobilario, during my research, I just happened to come across the used book on AbeBooks earlier this year. I just searched and don’t see any for sale unfortunately. I don’t know if this was ever published. It appears to be an original final draft, as the book has corrections made by hand and whiteout on the pages. In the book he states the work consists of one single manuscript, which he cataloged in 1962 and I believe is still housed at the Thomas Gilcrease Institute of American History and Art in Tulsa, OK, that bears the number 106 in a catalog of Hispanic Documents at the Institute.
In the introduction, he says this work is his translation of the transcripts of the letters of patent nobility litigated by Garcia López Osorio, Bernardino Osorio and Cristóbal Díaz Naríces, sons of Martin Alvarez Osorio and Mariana López Naríces on January 28 1530 to prove their nobility. I have also uploaded a family tree he has in the book. I will work on uploading a few more things from it.
My folder: https://nuestrosranchos.org/ERojano27
Thanks,
Edward.
Hello Edward,
I have studied the Osorio family for many decades. A big part of my research includes the Wife of #18) Pedro Alvarez Osorio, Maria Fernandez de Villalobos. Her ancestry includes the royal Houses of Europe (Spain, England, Germany, etc). This line of ancestry includes Saint Matilda (Mathilde) of Ringleheim. I will include her in a book that I am writing for my daughter of my ancestors and ancestors siblings that have been canonized as saints. King Pedro sent the order to kill Pedro Alvarez Osorio, so he killed the husband of his not to distant cousin Maria Fernandez de Villalobos. Her close relationship to the king is documented.
Thank you so much for this information. I believe a copy of this “Nobilario” is the book housed in Washington DC. I no longer have to go to Washington DC to track down this information. Over many years, I kept repeating to myself that “next year I will go to Washington DC and find the Osorio lineage of my Cornejo line.” But something has always come up and I never made the trip.
As to your question of “where does the Riojano/Rojano name come from?”, The Riojano or Rojano part ot the Cornejo surname only appears after the marriage to the de Rojas family, so I think the Riojano/Rojano was to also show descent from the De Rojas family.
Thanks again Edward,
Rick
Hello Rick,
Thanks so much for the info, that is so interesting. Oh wow, so you have pretty extensive knowledge of the Osorio family! The medieval period in Spanish history is so fascinating. To me, that period and its continuation into what is now Mexico and the meeting of the new world and old is very interesting. Especially now, knowing our ancestors played a part in all of that. That is a great idea about leaving a book for your daughter. As I have been learning of my family history the last few years, I have thought about taking all my findings and compiling it for my children so they can learn and know all of this.
I am glad I could help with the Nobiliario of Martín López. I know how that goes, I’ve been wanting to go to Mexico City to get to know the city and see some of the historical sites, but same as with you, something comes up haha.
Thank you for that info about the Riojano/Cornejo surname. Who is it that married into the de Rojas family and where did they come from? I am not familiar with the family line. If you haven’t yet, please check out some of the items uploaded in my file.
Thank you very much,
Edward
Saludos Edward,
I saw that someone had already added the Osorio lineage to the Cornejo line on familysearch. I haven’t checked it all out yet but I did find one common mistake. Many genealogists have mistaken two cousins with the same name and the same title. I am sending you an explanation of the mistake and the right lineage.
Giron to Fernandez de Villalobos
I. Gonzalo Rodríguez Girón (b. 1160) de Fernando III recibe el señorío de Autillo en 1221. Casó con Sancha Rodríguez
II. Gonzalo González Girón, canciller mayor de Fernando III. Casó con Teresa Arias Quesada, hija de Arias González de Quesada y de María Froilaz.
III. Berenguela González Girón, señora de Autillo, quien casó con Lope Ruiz de Haro, el chico, II señor de La Guardia y de Bailén, hijo de Lope Díaz de Haro III, señor de Vizcaya y de Urraca de León.
IV. María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.
[Aquí es donde seguimos dos líneas. Ruy Gil De Villalobos y María Diaz De Haro tienen dos hijos, Gil Ruiz de Villalobos y Lope Ruiz de Villalobos, que tienen nietos del mismo nombre, Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos. El mayor hijo, Gil tiene un hijo Ruy que es el padre de su nieto Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos que se casó con Inés de la Cerda. Muchos dicen que este Fernan es el señor de Autillo. Pero sus hijos mueren antes de el. El primo legítimo más cercano es su primo segundo del mismo nombre.
Here it is as a chart:
María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.
Their two sons Lope and Gil each have a grandson named Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos
1)- Lope Ruiz de Villalobos casó con Berenguela Perez de Castaneda | 1) Gil Ruiz de Villalobos |
2) -Rodrigo López de Villalobos (aka Rodrigo Perez de Villalobos) | 2) Rodrigo Gil de Villalobos |
| 3)- Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos (aka Fernando Rodriguez de Villalobos) | 3). Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos casó con Ines de la Cerda |
| 4)- Maria Fernandez de Villalobos casó con Pedro Alvarez de Osorio |
I just been wondering what is know about Carlos Lomellin. I am a decedent of him through his son Lucas. I have research him and from other post that I have seen I know that he worked on the mines?
Dear Ana,
You are not the only one looking for a reply button. First I want to answer your questions.
(1) My book is titled my genes2000
(2) The reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo."
(3) I think that you should focus on the Lomellini Spinola line as the ancestry of Carlo Lomelin (Carlos Lomellini) and Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini).
(4) there were many “Lomellini family” documents that were found in the Library of an estate. They were put up for sale for a tremendous amount of money many years ago. I don’t know if they were sold or donated, but I did have access to them many years ago.
What I can say for certain is that I have narrowed it down to these two cousins Named Carlo Lomellini. One Carlo Lomellini with a brother named Luciano Lomellini (Luis Lomelin) and a father named Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The father of the Carlo that is married to Porzia is named Vicenzo Lomellini, and he is the leader of the Family business that includes the family of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. Vicenzo Lomellini’s great aunt is married to a Marin who is also in control of the family business at one time. I don’t know who was in control first. I also descend from this great aunt Lomellini through my ancestor Captain Luis Marin.
The story handed down through the centuries of the family being involved with the purchase of slaves led me to Carlo Lomellini, son of Porzia. But both Carlo Lomellini had a part in the family business which included the transporting of slaves. This was not the only thing that they transported. They were in the business of transporting goods.
It is clear from all the information that I have gathered that an argument can be made for each of these two Carlo Lomellini. The more information that I gather leads to these two Carlo Lomellini, but does not prove which of the two is the Carlo Lomellini that we seek. I had leaned towards the Carlo Lomellini that is the son of Vicenzo and Porzia, but we also have the story that Carlo Lomelin and Luis Lomelin are brothers and a birth date about 1584 for Carlo Lomelin which leads us to the Carlo Lomelin that is the son of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The Carlo Lomelin son of Vicenzo is at least 15 years older. If we stick to the 1584 date then it has to be the son of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. Both of the Carlo’s parents are in Spain and part of the family business.
I have made a very strong case that our Carlo Lomelin is one of these two Carlo Lomellini. What I can not do is say for sure which one is our Carlo Lomelin. I haven’t completed writing the book on the Lomellini because I was hoping to find evidence that would confirm which of the two is the one that came to Mexico, but I have not been successful in finding that document. My paternal grandmother gave birth to my father in her fifties. And then had another child a couple of years later so that is why I don’t remove the Carlo Lomellini that is the son of Porzia as a possibility. But the year 1584 would mean that she was an older woman when she had him or that she was extremely young when she first became a slave of her future husband. The baptismal record states that she is the slave of Vicenzo Lomellini but doesn’t give her age. The date of the record is the fact that is changing my mind and having me lean towards Carlo Lomellini Spinola being the same Carlo Lomelin that came to Mexico. We also need to remember that the family story was that our ancestors Carlo Lomelin and Luis (Luciano) were brothers. If this is true then Carlo Lomellini Spinola is our man and we now have Luis Lomellini’s (Luciano Lomellini) ancestry. Carlo Lomelllini’s marriage to Porzia is very interesting and demands further investigation as there is much more to the story.
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
********6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are both Carlo's ancestors]
7. Goffredo Lomellini
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
Parents of brothers :
#11
Luciano Lomellini Spinola (aka Luis Lomelin) and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (aka Carlo Lomelin)
Sorry that the book isn’t available to the public yet,
Rick A. Ricci
Source: book mygenes2000
Bear with me I am not used to the new format yet. I didn't see a reply button so I am hope all is well. Quick question Rick what is the name of your book regarding the Lomellini family? We descend many times from that family line. Also where did you find Portzia's info on her back story?
Also do we not have a mother for Vincenzo di Lomellini yet? I didn't see it in the list. I did read some interesting information regarding the family and the paintings in the Prado , Scottish etc. Museums. Facninating family. I too think there is a connection with the Lomellini and the Lomelinos. In fact I think I know where the Lomelinos ended up in Italy and their Palace still stands but is under threat currently. I shudder to think what would happen to the building, it SHOULD be a UNESCO heritage site given the over 1000 year history and priceless wall paintings and frescos.
In the house there might even be more documents about the family in it, yeah, everything was just left as is, so it is just a matter of time before vandals, squatters and weather destroy it. YIKES! I just saw a post about it yesterday.
Thank you Rick.
Brothers Luciano Lomellini (Luis Lomelin) and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlo Lomelin)
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
Parents of
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola (AKA Luis Lomelin) And Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlos Lomelin)
Vasallo de Lumello picked up his surname from where he lived before becoming consul in Genoa. His children were the first to be called Lomellini. His first name came from his father’s surname. His father’s legitimate sons carried the Vasallo surname and they lived in Milan which was a rival city-state to Genoa. There did not it seem to be much interaction between Vassallo and his half siblings.
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you Rick,
This is quite interesting, in particular the case of the -former- slave Porzia. Thank you for clearing this. I have seen how some people made up a last name name and background for Porzia. Perhaps they are ashamed to descend from a slave. I am not and I hope more studies focus on her, I find her marriage with Vicenzo most interesting.
Best regards,
Erik
Dear Erik,
I also find the relationship and marriage of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia to be very interesting. For Vincenzo to be the “owner”of Porzia when she is converted from Muslim to Catholicism when she is baptized in 1551, and to later marry her has to be quite a story. To become the wife of a man who “owns her” and who is the leader of a large business that includes slave trading, is most likely a love story of “Cinderella” proportions. Vincenzo Lomellini descends from a family with much history going back to 385 ad, so for him to marry his slave meant that he was “head over heels” fascinated by her. If he wasn’t then he wouldn’t have married her as she was already his slave. Her life had to be a very interesting one.
In many generations we find that we are missing a spouse’s name. In the case of Vicenzo’s ’parents we only have his father’s name. Yet, we are provided with Porzia’s name and with the information that she had been his slave. When I tracked down her baptismal record it provided more proof that she had been his slave. It also identified her as converting from Muslim to Catholic. I am hoping that we can get more information on her and Vincenzo Lomellini.
Thanks Erik,
Rick A. Ricci
I believe I saw others referring to her as his Jewish slave or in historical texts as "schiava, poi moglie" which just means "Slave then wife". There is no mention of her background. I believe they identified her in the Van dyke painting she is supposedly in the red head in the painting dressed in black of course. Can you shoot me the link where it identifies her as a Muslim then Christian convert? I do Spanish paleography so I do not see documents like that very often in the archives.
Either a Jewish or Muslim would not matter when it came to slavery so she could be either only Christians could not be made slaves back then.
Thank you again, I am researching this line again and wanted to find all of our Lomellini ties.
Porzia was a Muslim before she was converted to Catholicism. In a book that I posted it shows how her future husband had her baptized when she was a slave. Later on in other records she is listed a being his wife but previously his slave. ("Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana). There is no questioning of these facts as there is documentation. This Carlo’s father worked in the same “company “ as Christopher Columbus S father and they had a great aunt that is married a “Marin” and they are the ancestors of the Marin branch that went to Mexico and left many descendants.
What is still questionable is which of the two Carlo Lomellini is the Carlo Lomelin that came to Mexico and is the ancestor to the majority of the Lomeli . There is the one who does have a brother named Luciani Lomelini ( Luis Lomelin) and then there is the one that descends from Porzia. We know this from the date of Porzias baptism which would have made her most unlikely, not impossible though, to be the mother of a son born in 1584.
If the birthdate that most people give for Carlo Lomelin is correct, then he is not the son of Porzia. That would mean that he is the Carlo that has a brother named Luciano (Luis)
sons of Giacomo Lomellini and Paola Spinola
Girolamo Lomellini is the son of Giovanni Battista Lomellini and Lucia
Giovanni Battista is the son of Giacomo Lomellini and n. Crivella Della Spezia
Giacomo is the son of Domenico Lomellini and Bastiana de Saulo
Domenico is the son of Oronasio Lomellini and Peretta Vivaldi
Oronasio is the son of Damiano Lomellini and Battina Squarciafico
Damiano is the son of Onofrio Lomellini jr. and Romanella de Marini
Onofrio is the son of Onofrio Lomellini (Lumbello) Sr, and Luchina Pansano
Onofrio Sr. Is the son of Lodisio de Lumbello and his second wife Catarina Barbavari
Lodisio is the son of Riccardo de Lumbello + Catarina
Riccardo is the son of Oberto de Lumbello + Angela
Oberto is the son of Ansaldo da Lumello
Ansaldo is the son of Vasallo da Lumello
Rick A. Ricci
Lomellini. The first with this surname to Carlo Lomelin
1)-Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo descends two Vasallo Vasallo so he isn’t the first to have it as a first name. His half-siblings that are legitimate carry the Vasallo surname.
2)-Ansaldo da Lumello - Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Italia
3)- Simone da Lumello Died: 1253 in Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Italia
4)-Oberto da Lumello- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Italia
........... +Angela- Born: in Genova, Italia
5)- Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia
............ +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Italia
6)-Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia-
............. +Orietta- Born: in Genova
7)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia--
..............+ Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
8)- Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Italia
...............+ Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
9)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............ + Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Italia, -Father: Stefano Gentile
10)- Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia.
11)- Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown.
........+Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vicenzo era su dueño cuando ella se bautizo.
12)- Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López : Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1565 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died before 1649, most likely in 1648 in Spain.
Before Vasallo de Lumello there are 31 more generations to 385 ad. In all there are 56 generations from 385 ad to my daughter.
Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000
Steven Francisco Hernández organized the tree as follows, however I did make a few additions to Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia’s information. The reason for the two lines is that Carlo descends from two branches of the Lomellini family. The first branch is through Francesca Lomellini, and the second branch is through her husband Tobia Lomellini.
1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo is named after his paternal grandfather.
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1287 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Tomasina - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Leonello da Lumello (Lenello Lomellini) - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1343 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................+Caterina Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Napoleone Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................... 7 Niccolo Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
......................... +Luchina Lercari Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Domenico Lercari
...................... 8 [2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............................ +[1] Tobia Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Tobia Lomellini Mother: Orietta
.......................... 9 [3] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[4] Battina Grillo - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
............................. 10 [5] Tobia Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................... +[6] Giorgietta Gentile - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Father: Stefano Gentile
................................. 11 [7] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................................... 12 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
.......................................... +[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vincenzo era su dueño cuando ella bautizo.
........................................ 13 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. - Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown
======================================================
Second branch:
........ 4 Oberto da Lumello- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Angela- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................. +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................... +Orietta- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
................... 7 [1] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia--
.........................+[2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
...................... 8 [3] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............................ +[4] Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
.......................... 9 [5] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[6] Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Stefano Gentile
............................. 10 [7] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia.
................................. 11 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown
.......................................+[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vicenzo era su dueño cuando ella se bautizo.
.................................... 12 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1565 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown
The thread on the latest on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry at : http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20549,
In this thread you will find that The father of Carlo Lomellini, Vicenzo Lomellini, is the leader of the Lomellini/Marini business group that were merchants that also were slave traders. This is the information that had been passed down by Carlo Lomelin’s descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco for over four hundred years. The research led to the information that Capitan Luis Marin, that is married to a relative of the second wife of Hernan Cortez, is a cousin of Carlo Lomelini as Capitan Luis Marin descends from Vicenzo’s aunt, sister of Vicenzo’s father.
Vicenzo Lomellini does not use the name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini is the name of the father of Luciano Lomelin Spinola. Luciano’s family was also in Castilla and involved in business with Vicenzo. The Lomellini/Marini family had part of the business based in San Lucar de Barrameda.
Steven Francisco Hernández López did a great job of organizing the ancestry of Carlo Lomellini. However, Carlos’s mother who is named Porzia is not born in 1551. That is the year she is baptized by her owner, Vicenzo Lomellini. I don’t believe that he would have married her if she had been his slave from birth. It doesn’t make sense for Vicenzo to have an infant slave at 21. Because Vicenzo owns a couple of slaves that he is baptizing on 5/April/1551, I would give him the age of 21. If he were much younger it would be his parents baptizing them, and they would be their slaves. So Vicenzo Lomellini’s birth year is estimated to be circa 1530. Since Vicenzo later marries her after she has been his slave, I am estimating that she is eleven years old on 5/April/1551 when she is converted from Muslim to Catholic at her baptism. That would give her a birthdate of 1540. If Carlo Lomellini was born between her 20th and 35th birthday then Carlo Lomellini would have been born between 1560 and 1575 and not 1584 like most people copy from secondary sources.
I have seen a false ancestry of Porzia posted on the internet. Porzia had been a Muslim slave and I have not seen any records that identify her parents.
Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000
Earlier In this thread I incorrectly posted
“ Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos".
But this Maria is not their daughter.. The Maria Lomelin that is married to Francisco De la Cueva is their great granddaughter. I posted the correct lineage in the thread on my Corea Peralta ancestry.
Another mistake that I wrote in this thread was that Paolo Vicenzo Lomelini was richer than his cousin Vicenzo Lomelin, but that was not true. Vicenzo Lomellini was the leader of the Lomelini and Marin clan in Castilla. This business group included Vicenzo’s aunt who is also my ancestor as she the grandmother or great grandmother of my ancestor Conquistador Luis Marin.
Even though Paolo Vicenzo Lomelin and Vicenzo Lomelin were only third cousins, they held a much closer business relationship and Vicenzo was the one in charge. This family was in involved in the slave trade so the stories we heard about Carlo Lomelini’s family being slave traders is true.
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Rick,
It's not by much but here it is:
Esther (me)
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 25 cM across 3 segments
My grandmother - Socorro Fuentes Cervantes
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 4 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 10 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 15 cM across 1 segments
My mother - Josefina Lopez Fuentes
AC
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 24 cM across 3 segments
My dad - Roberto Hernandez Ramirez
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 1 segments
Thank you,
Esther
My mother’s dna analysis from AncestryDNA shows her to be 18% Italian. Both her parents are from Los Altos De Jalisco. My mother has many Romo De Vivar, Perez-franco(Perestrello), Marin(i) and Lomelin(i) ancestral lines. I believe that these four ancestral lines are the ones that contribute to the majority of her 18% Italian results
While researching my Lomelini ancestors, my work merged with the research that I was doing on a few other Genoese ancestral lines that I was working on. I did not complete my book on my Lomellini ancestors because I wanted to see if I could find DNA evidence by compiling a reference line of descent that stayed in Genoa. Yesterday I attempted to contact, through email, italian descendants of siblings of the ancestors that I have been studying in order set up a dna analysis of their relationships to the the Lomellini descendants in Nueva Galicia. I hope to add these dna comparisons to my book.
Rick A. Ricci
Mygenes2000
Hello Rick,
I just joined a Facebook group after being invited by another Ancestry member that noticed I have Lomelin family member in my tree. She has asked me to have descendants of the family join the group. She has MANY descendants of the Lomellini family in the group too who have the Landi surname. The group's name is Fam Lomelin Lomelin. I also wonder how many of us here have done DNA and uploaded to Gedmatch Genesis to see if we're related. I've tested myself, my mother, and a great aunt who is also from Jalisco. I'd be willing to share gedmatch numbers on here if anyone is interested.
Kenya
Hi Kenya,
I uploaded DNA to Gedmatch and would be willing to share gedmatch numbers to see if we are related. I have hit a wall on my 6th great grandfather, Onofre de Lomelin (1730-1759) who died in El Rancho el Humedo, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco and am searching for clues on his father (no conosido) and mother Maria Nuñez ( - bef. 1754). Not alone in the search, I know of a few others here and on other sites searching for the same. I've come across some trees online who have a known Lomelin as a father (Gabriel, Hernando or Domingo) and a different mother, however his marriage certificate to Angela de Jesus Yniguez (abt 1734-abt 1777) m.February 13, 1754 states Maria Nuñez as mother, deceased and unknown father, yet Onofre is given the surname Lomelin. Hopefully we can find his baptismal certificate, death certificate for his mother or a marriage dispensa with key information than can shed some light.
Hi Rick,
I just looked up "Mygenes2000" on ancestry to see if our DNA matched. I have my both my parents DNA as well as my maternal grandmother. My grandmother, mom and my self matched AC, OC and Patricia Romo and my father matched Patricia Romo. My parents and grandmother still live in Degollado, Jalisco.
Thank you,
Esther Hernandez Lopez
Dear Esther Hernandez Lopez,
I don’t have my dna results posted, but the people you found, AC, OC, and Patricia Romo are closely related to me. I am curious as to how closely you are related to each one of them. How close of a cousin does Ancestry predict?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
My work on Carlo Lomellini is extensive. My work up to this point on Luis Lomeli is not as extensive and is more speculative as there are more possible people that can be our Luis Lomeli. At this time there are three possible Luis Lomelin, two with a mother surnamed Spinola, a third that is also from the Iberian peninsula. The third one is a recent discovery.
When I posted the family tree on possible Luis Lomelin, I stated that I was "trying on a Glass slipper" on possible Luis Lomelin's. Any work on Geni that shows Luis Lomelin's ancestry is just someone copying my speculation and falsely posting it as fact. There is still much research to compile on Luis Lomelin.
There are three men married to Maria Lomelin, a daughter of Luis Lomelin and Maria Olmo. Are there three marriages for one Maria Lomelin y Olmo?
I have confirmed that Maria had two marriages but still looking for more evidence of the third marriage.
Here are the marriages:
Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"
Juan Villaseñor y Patiño de Herrera married to "María Lomelín "hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"
Diego de Barrientos Ribera y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"
I only know of three daughters of Luis Lomelin and Maria del Olmos. Does anyone know if they had more children?
Rick A. Ricci
Hola Richard:
Esas familias vivieron en Querétaro.
Don Diego de Barrientos Ribera era el justicia mayor de Querétaro a principios del siglo XVII y existe un retrato de él y de dona María Lomelin, su mujer.
La familia de Doña María vivía en Querétaro en esa época.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N537-58F : 12 December 2014), Luis Lomelin in entry for Luisa Lomelin Del Olmo, 04 Mar 1606; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWFTVW; FHL microfilm 247,920.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8D3-64B : 12 December 2014), Luis De Lomellin in entry for Ana De Lomellin Del Olmo, 09 Aug 1618; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWG19R; FHL microfilm 247,920.
Relación entre las familias del Olmo y Espíndola:
Hacia 1570 pasó a nueva España Doña Ana de Espíndola, presentándose como viuda del conquistador Francisco de Avendaño (Mendaño) conquistador de Nueva Granada, para estar con su hijo Francisco de Avendaño. Traía a sus dos hijas María de Espíndola (Avendaño) y doña Ana de Espíndola (Avendaño). Al poco tiempo María se casa con Juan Muñoz (Ramírez de Coy) en Puebla y luego pasan a Querétaro, doña Ana se casa con Francisco del Olmo.
Estas familias se desplazaban porque eran parte de una red mercantil en el camino real.
Saludos
Marcelina
Te recomiendo visitar el artículo sobre la Hacienda de La Laja en bisabuelos.com ya que los descendientes de Doña María y Don Diego fueron propietarios de dicha Hacienda.
Hola Marcelina,
Si tengo mas hijos de Luis Lomelin pero me faltan muchas piezas. Los Espindola viene de la Familia Genovez "Spinola" que ya tenian mucha relacion familiar con Los Lomellini. De los "Del Olmos" no tengo mas informacion. Los Avendaño es una familia conversa que viene de "la Casa de David".
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Hola Richard:
Creí que era Aben Dana, de la tribu de Dan.
La familia Ramírez de Coy y Alfaro Bravo de Lagunas era representante mercantil en los virreinatos del Duque de Béjar y Marqués de Gibraleón. Los Espíndola (Spínola), los Olmos, los Avendaño, etc. son familias asociadas y comisionistas de la red de distribución de productos.
No tengo identificados a los Lomelin como parte de esa red, pero muchas familias genovesas como los Spínola tenían representaciones en Sevilla y vivían en el mismo barrio "Calle de los Genoveses".
Marcelina
Dear Becky,
Last week Veronica told me that you were a member of Nuestrosranchos. I was happily surprised by the news and racked my brain trying to remember seeing your name in posts. It wasn't until I did a little investigating that I discoverered that you, as "visitor", had originally asked about Carlo Lomellin. If it hadn't been for your question I probably would have just kept on researching the Lomellini in Spain, Portugal, and Italy without posting some of the information.
As you know by now, I have tremendous amount of information on the Lomeli / Lomellini family.
Yesterday I took a look at your mom's ancestry and collected some information, (baptismal records, marriage records and census records.) I also pulled birth records from the civil records to make sure I was researching the right people.
Hopefully during Easter break I can find time to put a package together for you and send it through regular mail.
Please tell everyone in the family that they are in our thoughts and prayers,
Rick
I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Carbajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended from her through this line.
Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.
Ronnie
________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named
Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter
named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de
Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.
please cancel my nuestros ranchos account permanently due to health issues.. Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Reynoso
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 8:53 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.
Ronnie
________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.
We keep repeating that the Lomelin of Mexico come from the Lomellini from Italy and that is correct for many, many centuries. But I have found that the branch that I have gone furthest back on leads right back to what is today Portugal and Spain. Back to the Visigoth kings of the Iberian Peninsula.
The Lomellini have a line that goes back to Rechila, the Suevic King of Galicia of the fifth century. His mother was the daughter of Wallia, King of the Visigoths. This line leads to the middle of the first century where documentation ends with Berik, King of the Goths.
R.A.Ricci
In our research of Luis and Carlo Lomellini it seemed as we had little information to work with. But that is not so. We have gathered many little pieces that placed together like a jigsaw puzzle have helped us identify the possible and probable parents of the these two men. Some highly respected historians and genealogists have repeated the claim that they were brothers. We do not know where they got this information. These historians have not provided primary resources that we may inspect. We respected this claim but we realized that none of the present genealogists have seen or have any knowledge of a primary source to support this claim. Neither do we have any primary source to disprove this claim so we needed to proceed in our research as if it was possible that they were brothers, but also looking at data as if they were not brothers.
By looking at all the information that we have on these two men we were able to see that by separating our search into two directions we were able to use what we know about each one to identify their possible and probable parents.
Some of the information that we had of these two men was the same. They also had individual differences. The information that they share is first that they descend from the Lomellini family from Genoa with the patriarch, Vasallo Lumello from Meda Lumello (Vasallo was repeatedly named Consul of the Republic of Genoa). Another piece of information that they share is that they descend from the branch of the Lomellini that was heavily involved in businesses involving trade, shipping, and banking.
We researchers spent many years looking for the parents of these "brothers". We spent many years failing to find their parents. It wasn't until we brought up the possibility that they were not brothers that we could focus even more on the differences of Luis Lomellini and Carlo Lomellini, and there are differences.
Since most of us know that we descend from Carlo Lomellini the search shifted to his ancestors, putting aside Luis Lomelin for the time being.
The branch of the Lomellini family that was head and shoulders above the rest of the Lomellini family in trade, banking, and shipping descended from Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro. We have the direct line from Napoleone to Vasallo Lumello. From what we heard about them descending from a family involved in trade, shipping and banking it was logical to begin our search with Napoleone's descendant, Marco Lomellini, since he was a powerful businessman with many connections to the separate Lomellini branches. Through him we were able to connect with many of these branches.
Napoleone Lomellini makes it easier for us genealogists by placing conditions in his testament and will that insist on his directives be followed for many generations. Napoleone insisted that the consequence for not following his directives would be forfeiture of his inheritance. The person next in line in the genealogical table would then inherit and become executor. Actually three executors were named in the directives with two out of three making the decisions. Some decisions were not left open to interpretation by the executors. These decisions were made by Napoleone Lomellini. He placed some property in a trust that was to be shared by family members and never to be sold. He also left some assets to be used to help those in need. He left many assets to his children with specific directives to be followed. One of these directives involved keeping track of his descendants. This directive has contributed mightily to our research.
The Lomellini family testaments, wills, business contracts, genealogic family trees have great resources that I have mined looking for golden nuggets.
Looking through Napoleone Lomellini's descendants, Carlo Lomellini son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia stands out as a candidate to be our Carlo Lomellini. Lots of little details brought together help reinforce making him a prime candidate as our Carlo Lomellini. Three of these details I will go into here.
1.) The persistent rumor of a BIG trading family, This detail is a given as he descends from Napoleone Lomellini. This family had palaces that still exist today and have been converted to Luxurious hotels.
2.) That Carlos family had something to do with slavery. Porzia was Vincenzo Lomellini's slave before he married her. We have this documentation, even the date that she baptized converting from a Muslim to Christianity where it states that she is Vincenzo's slave. In later records she is identified as first slave, then wife.
3.) That as he was identified in a primary source provided be Steven Hernendez, that he was originally from " de reinos de Castilla y Genova" just like our probable Carlo Lomellini and his family identified themselves, from two city-states. The two city states were allied during the time that we believe Carlo Lomellini was born.
As other little details are collected they seem to support this claim that they are one and the same. Yet we must remember in the back of our minds that many highly respected historians and genealogists claimed that they were brothers. Those of us that have benefited greatly from the immense works of of genealogists like Dr. Rito Romo Franco, Mariano Gonzalez Leal, Jaime Holcombe and Guillermo Teresa de Tovar tread carefully when discussing little mistakes in their voluminous work.
Next, we add Luis Lomelin to our discussion. Luis Lomellini ran in more of an elite aristocratic circle than Carlo did. Though Carlo was educated and showed some success in in his business endeavors, Carlo was more of lower upper class compared to Luis Lomellini who married one his daughters to the elite upper class, the Villasenor Orosco family.
If we are to consider that maybe Carlos, who had an elite upper class father, Vincenzo and a mother, Porzia, from the lowest of the low classes would find it advantageous to come to the new world to enjoy the benefits of the status of the well known Lomellini family while also not disclosing that his mother was from the opposite end of the social classes. He would probably just name his father Vincenzo Lomellini and not his mother. If Carlo did this and our Luis Lomellini is Luciano Lomellini Spinoza(1), Carlo's 4th cousin maybe people came to be believe they were brothers because Luciano Lomellini Spinoza also had a father with a similar name as did Carlo, Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini. This Luis descended from the elite upper aristocratic class from both parents, not just one like Carlo. This Luis would feel very comfortable associating with the Villasenor Orosco families which our Luis did. His daughters married well. This does not seem to be a stroke of luck. The circumstances dictate that Luis himself must have run in pretty high circles. This Luciano Lomellinis family and Carlo Lomellinis family did have connections through other close family members, along with connections to Marco Lomellinis family who took after his great grandfather Napoleone Lomellini.
After putting this scenario together after so many years of work I fell that we had come up with two great candidates for Carlo and Luis Lomellini.
We are still haunted by the past assumption by historians and genealogist that they were brothers. Does this explanation that both Carlo and Luciano Lomellini have a father named Vincenzo Lomellini satisfactorily explain why historians and genealogists thought they were were brothers. I have a very extensive collection of genealogical data that most likely contains all possible Carlo and Luis Lomellini. Up until yesterday, I had not found any Luis and Carlo Lomellini brothers near the correct time frame. After investigating this possibility more thoroughly, I originally thought thatThe only Carlo and Luciano Lomellini siblings that I have found are born too late by many decades. Their siblings records helped date them. At least this is what I thought after looking at the dates provided. Many months later, and more investigations, it seems that the dates provided were not birth dates and that there is a possibility that Carlos and Luis Lomelin were brothers after all.
It is not as solid a conclusion for Luciano Lomellini. There are many Luciano Lomellini that need to be investigated. There were many Carlo Lomellini but after much research, I could eliminate them one by one until there were only two possible candidates. I will do the same with the Luciano Lomellini, eliminating one by one those that could not possibly be Luis Lomelin. This will be more difficult as we have less information on Luis Lomelin than we did on Carlo Lomelin. What we should take into account with Luis Lomelin is why did the historians think that they were brothers. Taking this identification into question seems to narrow the field but also includes Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) because even though they are not brothers, the fact that Carlo Lomellini (son of Porzia) and him share a father that has Vincenzo in their name. I call the father of Luciano Lomellini Spinolai(1) Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini and Carlo Lomellinis father only Vincenzo Lomellini because he was mostly known as Vincenzo and I saw only one record that also added "Paolo".
Taking into account all the information that we have presented so far, I see only two possible candidates for our Carlo Lomellini, and many possible candidates for Luciano Lomellini, though I believe that Luis Lomeli is either Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) or Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2). We cannot discount the pair that are brothers yet.
If Carlo and Luis Lomeli of Mexico are brothers than they have to be Carlo Lomellini (2) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)
They are the sons of Giacomo Lomellini and Paola Spinola
Girolamo Lomellini is the son of Giovanni Battista Lomellini and Lucia
Giovanni Battista is the son of Giacomo Lomellini and n. Crivella Della Spezia
Giacomo is the son of Domenico Lomellini and Bastiana de Saulo
Domenico is the son of Oronasio Lomellini and Peretta Vivaldi
Oronasio is the son of Damiano Lomellini and Battina Squarciafico
Damiano is the son of Onofrio Lomellini jr. and Romanella de Marini
Onofrio is the son of Onofrio Lomellini (Lumbello) Sr, and Luchina Pansano
Onofrio Sr. Is the son of Lodisio de Lumbello and his second wife Catarina Barbavari
Lodisio is the son of Riccardo de Lumbello + Catarina
Riccardo is the son of Oberto de Lumbello + Angela
Oberto is the son of Ansaldo da Lumello
Ansaldo is the son of Vasallo da Lumello
It comes down to only two possible Carlo Lomellinis for our Carlo Lomelin. Carlo Lomellini(1) was probably born c.1570, Carlo Lomellini(2) we don not have a specific birth date, only that the documents that name his siblings and his nephews and nieces place him as being alive in the early 1600's. Carlo is the youngest in his family. Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)is the oldest in this family. I had originally ruled these brothers out, but went back for a second look. I ruled them out but went back again. All the document dates given do not specify what the dates mean. After researching Battilanas book, I have come to the conclusion that they may fit in the time frame based on what I have on Carlo and Luis Lomeli . This Carlo would actually fit better with the later 1584 birthdate. This Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) would be closer to the 1570 date as I would pu him as about 10 to 15 years older than his younger brother Carlo, the tenth in this family. There is no story of slavery to go with this Carlo Lomellini(2). These Lomellini brothers do not come from the richer Lomellini branches so this Luciano Lomeli Spinola (2) would of had to become rich on his own and not through inheritance. I have also not found any business contracts involving this Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) to explain him becoming rich and our Luis Lomeli from Mexico was extremely wealthy.
Wealth wise Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) fits the bill as he descends from the wealthiest branch, the descendants of Napoleone Lomellini, as does Carlo Lomelini(1) even though Carlo also descends from the wealthier branch, his fathers choice of wife must have rubbed his family the wrong way and he would likely not have inherited as much money. Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) and Carlo Lomellini (1) (son of Porzia) descend from Napoleone Lomellini so their grandparents lived in the Lomellini Palaces. Marco Lomellini is from a time much later than Napoleone, about 150 years later when he seems to be the wealthiest of all the Lomellini.
R A Ricci
This information is from my Book with a working title "mygenes2000". I have a copyright based on what I have written already but have not published it as I am editing it and proof reading the contents. Any information used from should reference me, the author. I am required to add this statement to stop anyone from later claiming that I took their material without referencing them. Titles cannot be copyrighted and I have not decided on one but needed a working title to submit my chapters for the copyright. I have called my work mygenes2000 in reference to my symbolic and biological contributions to my family tree. My only daughter was born in 2000.
The Lomellini family, due to its high social class, business matters, education, and family traditions, left a vast amount of documents that record their lives and family connections.
The clues that I started off with were clues that seemed to revolve around Marco Lomellini who was a businessman who moved back and forth between Genoa and Spain. His descendants also moved back and forth. Marco had a lot of contact with Lomellini s from Genoa to Portugal. Gian Baptista Lomellini (aka Battista Leomelin), Bartolome Lomellini, Cosme Lomellini, and Baptista Lomellini were the Lomellini that left many descendants in Portugal that today use the surname Lomelino. As usual there was intermarrying of cousins between Marcos descendants and other lomellinis. There were three Battista Lomellini s living at the same time in Madiera, Portugal A daughter of Marcos married a cousin surnamed Lomellini so I had believed that the line could have come from his daughter. This sent me looking into all the Lomellini lines connected to Marco.
I found many Carlo lomellinis, most died at a young age. I found two Carlo Lomellini that lived at the same time as our Carlo Lomellini
The first Carlo Lomellini candidate did not go to New Spain, and therefore, could not possibly be our Carlos Lomellini . This Carlo Lomellini was a knight of the order of St. John Malta. He was the son of Bonifacio de Lumbello and Nicoletta Marini.
The second Carlo Lomellini that was born at the same time as our Carlo Lomellini that I have identified as a possible candidate has a genealogy that goes to the 4th century. It was well known that his ancestor, Vasallo Lumello, was illegitimate but his father is identified. Vasallo's mother is the one that is not recorded, at least in my documents. This possible Carlo Lomellini is not a descendant of Marco Lomellini but Marco was the thread that led me to finding Carlo.who was born in the 1570's to early 1580's( before 1586) Carlo is a close relative of Marco Lomellini. Many people looking for our Carlos lomellini's parents mention that their family history includes stories about their ancestor being involved in the Slave trade. If this possible Carlo is the right one that we are looking for, than everyone is in for a surprise because his mother, Porzia, is the slave of his father, Vincenzo Lomellini. A record distinctly names her as HIS slave when she is baptized on 5/April/1551 (she had been raised Muslim).[musulmana convertida al cristianesimo] Carlo Lomellini 's mother is considered to be from a low social class. Carlo Lomellini 's father comes from the highest social class.
Genoa occupied the island of Tabarka near where the Lomellini had a grant of the coral fishing from the Ottoman Turks. There was a strong jewish presence on the island along with the Muslims. It was not uncommon for the upper classes To take some of these inhabitants to Italy as slaves. When the word slave is mentioned, many people have images of slaves being whipped every day to do hard labor and although this did occur it was not common practice in Italy in the 16th century. The Italian high upper class would take slaves to be their house servants and not hard labor. Their work load and living conditions were comparable to other peasants of that time, in some cases better. Both peasants and slaves had it tough.
Moving to New Spain would have been advantageous to Carlo Lomellini where he would still carry the status of his family name and also be able to be quiet about his mothers pre-marriage social standing. Another record does say that although she was originally a slave, Vincenzo Lomellini married her. Vincenzo Lomellini(aka Lomellino) is the son of Giacomo Lomellini (b abt 1484 son of Tobia Lomellini and his second wife Giorgietta Gentile) Tobia is the son of Giacomo Lomellini Lomellini and Battina Grillo. This Giacomo is the son of distant cousins Tobia Lomellini and Franca(Francesca)Lomellini ( see next paragraph for her Lomellini line to Vasallo) Tobia is the son of Tobia Lumbello and Orietta. Tobia is the son of bennedetto Lumbello and Gioffredina Benedetto is the son of Ansaldo Lumbello and his second wife Francisca de Gualtieri. Ansaldo is the son of Oberto Lumbello and Angela. Oberto is the son of Simone Lumbello and Giulia. Simone is the son of Ansaldo Lumello. Ansaldo is the son of Vassallo da lumello, consul of Genoa.
Getting back to the wife of Tobia Lomellini, Franca (Francesca) Lomellini (Lumellino), daughter of Nicolo Lomellini (Lumbello)and Luchina Lercari Nicolo is the son of a Napoleone Lumbello (Lomellini) and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro, Napoleone is the son of Leonello Lumbello (Lomellini) and Caterina. Leonello is the son of Pietrino Lomellini (Lummello) and Tomasina. Pietrino is the son of Simone Lumbello and Giulia Simone is the son of Ansaldo Lumello the son of Vassallo da Lumello, consul of genoa.
There are two Franca Lomellinis with a father named Nicolo Lomellini. These are are not the same people and are distant cousins.
Napoleone and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro have a son named Carlo Lomellini that is signore de Ventimiglia, command. de la flotta genovese. He was born in the early 1400's and his marriage and children are well documented. This Carlo Lomellini passed away in 1435.
This Vassallo da Lumello is the ancestor to the Lomellini, Lumello, Lumbello, Lomellino, Lomelin, and Lomeli families. He descends from king hunno velphio bayern (born c. 385) king of the Suebi (Allamani) tribe of western Germany. The tribe called themselves Suebi but foreigners called them the Allamani tribe. Many genealogists and historians have Mistakenly referred to them as two tribes , or as the Allamani as a branch of the Suebi. A son of king Hunno became king of Bavaria. A descendant of king hunno went to Italy and his descendants became kings and princes of Lombardy.
One of these princes married Theodora, daughter of Leuthard II and Grimildis de Paris. Leuthard II was the son of Beggo de Paris and Adelheid ( aka Alpais, Alpaida, Adelaide). Adelheid is either daughter or granddaughter to Charlemagne. The world renowned genealogist Christian Settipani states that Adelheid is Charlemagnes daughter but some other genealogists (including Flotard from the 10th century) state that Adelheid is charlemagnes granddaughter through his son Louis le PiEux. There are 2 Adelheids(Alpais) The argument is which of these two Alpais does Theodora descend from. If you go by Charlemagne and his descendants traditional naming practice then Christian Settipani has the stronger argument. But Flotard wrote his genealogy in the tenth century and had access to primary sources.
Vasallo da Lumello descends from this Theodora, descendant of Charlemagne. This Theodora is nicknamed "daughter of Charlemagne" has been mistaken by many genealogists as actually being her daughter. I repeat, she is not his daughter, though she actually descends from him and is named after her aunt, Charlemagne's real daughter Theodora.
I can post this tree, generation by generation on another date.
This line is only important to nuestrosrancho members if this second Carlo Lomellini is the same person as our Carlos Lomellini in New Spain. if these two are one and the same there would be little documentation among the descendants as they would try to hide Porzias pre-marriage social class. The documents may name only Vincenzo Lomellini.
I recently found a document, just like I had predicted, of a daughter of P. Vincenzo [Paolo Vincenzo] Lomellini and Porzia, naming only her father and making no mention of her mother.
Another interesting fact about this possible Carlo Lomellini is that through his father, he is related to the Marini family who also left descendants in Nochistlan Zacatecas and Jalisco. More endogamy amongst the first families of Zacatecas and Jalisco in Spain before coming over and in new Spain.
I keep getting asked about my Lomellini research so I decided to share part of my work. Some of Carlo 's siblings have been named in the documents but they do not claim to list all of Vincenzo s children. I have not found Luis Lomellini listed as his sibling though this does not mean that he is not one. I did not know until about two years ago that I also descend from Luis Lomellini so I had focused most of my research looking for Carlo Lomellini. I am going to go back and reread all previous documents to see if I missed any information that would help track down Luis Lomellinis parents. I also have many unread documents.
Jaime Holcombe mentioned that Carlos and Luis Lomellini were brothers, but I do not have information on his sources. I would like access his source to look for more clues.
There are many documents that refer to the Lomellini family but my research is not complete, it is a work in progress in the unraveling of the family tree. I do not know when I will publish the book since I still have much to add to it. After all this research, I can understand some of the Italian that I read, and the more I read, the more I understand it. What I do not understand, my neighbor translates for me. He is Italian. My book will provide sources for my information . Much of my work comes from a treasure trove of Italian documents that were collected and kept in a family library. The Lomellini left many family records. they believed in genealogy. They left many legal documents such as wills and business applications and transactions. There are many books in public libraries, and on the internet that will validate my research.
R. A. Ricci
On this previous post dated February 01, 2014 I listed only two Carlo Lomellinis alive with only one possibly being our Carlo Lomelin. There was a third Carlo Lomellini that I had originally thought was from a totally different time frame which would make him an impossible candidate but further research showed that the date I was originally working with turned out to not be birth dates. This Carlo Lomellini (2) does have a brother named Luciano Lomellini. Please check on another post of mine titled "are Carlo and Luis Lomelin brothers?" For more information on these two. In that other post I have included their descent from Vasallo Lumello.
R.A.Riccii
Thee information in this post is part of a book that is copyrighted by me. Any use of this information should reference its author.
I have recd many emails asking me about any new news on my research on Carlos Lomelin. The good news is that I have continued my research and found a little more information but the bad news is that I have had to put my work aside lately and will not be able to finish a book by the end of summer. I will add that the window for the brothers Carlo Lomellini(2) and Luciano Lomellini (2) continues to shrink. Important and very specific information of a nephew of theirs makes it unlikely that they are our Carlo Lomellin and Luis Lomelin. Other information(dates of close relatives) also are taken into consideration.
The probability that Carlos Lomelin is the same Carlo Lomellini (1) son of Vicenzo Lomellini and Porzia is increasing as the window closes on Carlo Lomellini (2).
R A Ricci
Hello Mr Ricci .....My name is Alejandro Lomeli. I am curious as to what the status of your book is. Ive been following your replies on here about Carlos and Luis Lomellini and am really looking forward to reading your work. I descend back 10 generations to Carlos Lomellini. Best Regards, A.Lomeli
Hello Alejandro,
I believe that the information that I have discovered on Luis (Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) is the last puzzle piece that I needed to finally Name with conviction the parents of Carlo Lomellini. The book could be finished right now if it was only on the descendants and ancestors of Carlo Lomellini. But research of Carlo Lomellimi’s Ancestors has provided much information on the branches of the Lomellini family that went to the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) before coming over to the Americas. The research has provided valuable ancestral information on Luis Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) and a famous cousin of Carlo Lomellini’s great grandfather.
The book will also include descendants of Luis Lomeli, Carlos’s fourth cousin. I am still working on Luis Lomeli’s descendants. Luis’s descendants are just a relatively recent addition to my research as in the past I had only focused on how Miguel Hidalgo Costilla and I descended from him. This information on Luis is important as it lays to rest the mistaken belief that Carlos (Carlo) and Luis (Luciano) were brothers. Although Carlo Lomeli and Luis Lomeli were only fourth cousins, they were part of a small circle of Italian families on the Iberian Peninsula that intermarried often, and they had second cousins in common. That means that their fathers had first cousins in common, and both of their families were very close to the other two Lomellini branches of the family on the Iberian Peninsula. In fact, there were quite a few in the family in which both parents were surnamed Lomellini. Three of the Lomellini branches were so very closely related before arriving on the Iberian Peninsula that they could be considered part of one bigger branch while the fourth branch was not as closely related before their arrival,, but they intermarried often with the other Lomellini once they came over, even though this fourth branch primarily resided in Portugal. Even though I wrote primarily resided, the families traveled often due to business interests between Genoa, Spain, and Portugal. They also traveled often throughout the Mediterranean and through the English Channel as they moved goods. It was only after decades that the families settled permanently as they enjoyed thinking of themselves as residents of different city-states. Over the centuries, The Iberian peninsula Lomellini branches developed into two separate branches, one in Portugal (Lomelino), and the other in Spain (Lomelin).
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Source: Mygenes2000
Did you ever find documentation of Luis Lomellini's parents? My family tree shows that I am a descendant. I know you said your book focus more on Carlo, but I was wondering if you had found any new information about Luis and his lineage. My ancestors settled in Tamazula Jalisco and in tracing the Munguia side it led me to the last names Coria and Lomellini.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?
Dear Alma,
I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres
Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza
Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.
Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres.
Geronimo and his spouse Matiana (Martiana) were related through the Gonzalez de Hermosillo.
The last name was not Lomeli. It was Lomelin. Carlos Lomelin was Carlo Lomellini in Italian.
I have much more information on these lines.
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci
Question:
Martiana Lomelini Gavilan
Submitted by almadegollings on Thu, 2016-07-14 17:14.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?
Dear Alma,
I forgot to add that Martiana was also known as Matiana de Torres. The "de Torres" was from her maternal grandmother, Francisca de Torres. Jerónimo and Martiana baptized a daughter where Martiana used her maternal grandmother's surname as her own.
When baptizing another child she is surnamed "de Hermosillo". I have numerous children for Geronimo and Martiana though I don't know how many total children they had.
//////////////////
Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán)
Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Thu, 2016-07-14 22:13.
Dear Alma,
I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres
Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza
Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.
Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres.
Geronimo and his spouse Matiana (Martiana) were related through the Gonzalez de Hermosillo.
The last name was not Lomeli. It was Lomelin. Carlos Lomelin was Carlo Lomellini in Italian.
I have much more information on these lines.
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci
Question:
Martiana Lomelini Gavilan
Submitted by almadegollings on Thu, 2016-07-14 17:14.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?
I have seen her being considered a Jewish slave I have not seen her represented as a Muslim "[musulmana convertida al cristianesimo]" Do you have the baptismal document that says she was a Muslim that converted?
I want to make sure my records are correct and proof of their claims. Thank you so much.
Though we can not assume anything yet regarding the origins of Carlo e Luigi Lomellini -we do not even know how they are related-, here is an article about a member of the Lomellini lineage:
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/leonardo-lomellini_(Dizionario_Biog…
Here is what I consider of genealogical interest:
Leonardo Lomellini born ca. 1510, son of Girolamo di Tobia and Brigida di Pier Francesco Lomellini. His wife was Bianca Grimaldi Oliva di Gerolamo. He had 5 daughters: Faustina, Brigida, Maria, Geronima, Maddalena and only 1 son: Giacomo who died in 1594 leaving no descendants.
The article also mentions his business ventures in Spain. He died ca. 1581.
There is another -the same?- Leonardo Lomellini in New Spain who had a commercial contract with Hernán Cortés in 1542. Perhaps Carlos and Luigi are related.
The article also mentions his patrimony valued at 18.750 lires and compares it to the greater patrimony of two other Lomellini: Bartolomeo Lomellini and Augusto.
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini/
The article above mentions that the family had 7 Dogi of Genoa; an Angelo Lomellini, author of a relation of the fall of Constantinople, two cardinals, etc.
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini_(Enciclopedia-Italiana)/ This article mentions a Vassallo di Lumello as the origin of the Lomellini family in 1137.
It is true that Vassallo di Lumello is considered the origin of the Lomellini family. This is because Vasallo Lomellini 's descendants were the first to be surnamed Lomellini. Often when someone is considered the origin of a family it is because the line stops there but that is not the case here. Vassallo Lomellini' s father is well documented. Vassallo Lomellini was an illegitimate son of Rejnerius Vassallo. his mothers name is the one that I cannot find. Rejnerius Vassallo is the son of Auberto II di Vassalllo 3rd signore di Lavigno.
There does not seem to be much interaction between Auberto II other sons and grandchildren with Vassallo Lumello. . Auberto II Vassallo's other sons and grandchildren lived and left many descendants in Milan while Vassallo di Lumello's family lived and left descendants in Genoa. Auberto II Vassallo is the son of Vasallo Vasallo (many of descendants took his name)
Auberto II Vassallo 's ancestors are well documented for many generations. This Auberto ii descends from Prince Manfred III of Lombardy, Comte D'Orleans (c 770-836) (sometimes the numbering of the Manfreds is confusing because there was so many of them and different historians have numbered them differently) and Theodora nicknamed "daughter of Charlemagne". The descent from this wife of Manfred is clear though I am still working on whether she is daughter, granddaughter, or great granddaughter of Charlemagne. Both Manfred III (Manfred I) and Theodora are related as they both descend from Pepin II (aka Pepin of Herstal) (aka Pepin the middle), son of Ansegisel and Begga. There are also many other family relationships through Charlemagnes mother, and his wife Hildegarde. Theodora's nickname has caused much confusion with many genealogist because they take her nickname literally. Others state it is not a nickname and that she is Charlemagnes daughter but not Theodora but a sister of hers with a similar sounding name. Charlemagne had an aunt Theodora(Theodrada) daughter and grandaughter, and a great grandaughter of the same name. Many genealogists have argued over this point, one side arguing that she is a daughter with the other side arguing that she is a great granddaughter. After reading their arguments and taking into account dates I believe that she is one of the grandchildren that Charlemagne took in and raised as his own. I will continue doing research to clarify this contention.
Auberto ii grandfather, Auberto I Vecelli's nickname Is Vasallo which his descendants took as a surname. the nickname came from his position as vassal to his brother Bongiovanni II conte de Vercelli who took the surname Avogadro. I am still looking into why Bogiovanni did this. I am curious because I remember Avogadro from chemistry class. Many of Bogiovanni II Avogadro descendents took this last name. I am curious to find the connection between Bogiovanni Ii and Lorenzo Romano Amedo Carlo Avogadro, conte di Quarenga e Cerreto, the founder of atomic and molecular theory. Amedeo's father Filippo Avogadro( count, lawyer, and senator) and his mother Anna Maria Vercellone both likely descend from Bogiovanni's ancestors. Filippo Avogadro is said to be descended from a long line of lawyers from the noble house of Avogadro and Vercelli but I do not have the names.
R.A Ricci
To Leon de Tejada
You stated that we cannot assume anything in regards to Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. We are not just guessing. We are gathering facts and looking for all the data that will guide us to the identities of Carlo and Luis(Luciano ) Lomellini. You are contributing to this search. You are right in guessing that they may be related. This Leonardo Lomellini that you mention is the son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini.
This Leonardo Lomellini is a first cousin to our Carlo Lomellini's father, Vincenzo Lomellini.
Vincenzo's father Giacomo Lomellini and Girolamo Lomellini are brothers, sons of Tobia Lomellini and Giorgietta Gentile.
Right now We do not know if the two Leonardo Lomellinis are the same person. There was another Leonardo Lomellini married to Maria Lomellini, daughter of Marco Lomellini Lomellini This Leonardo Lomellini is the son of Pier Francesco Lomellini (son of Giuliano Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini) and Maria Lomellini (daughter of Giacomo Lomellini)
Marco Lomellini had another daughter that also married a Lomellini. His daughter Andreola Lomellini married Lorenzo Lomellini son of Giacomo Lomellini and Battina Grillo. This Lorenzo is brother to Tobia Lomellini, Carlo Lomellini's great grandfather.
Whichever Leonardo Lomellini it is, there is a relatively close relationship to Carlo Lomellini.
Please continue to post anything you find.
R A Ricci
The two possible Leonardo Lomellini are both alive during the same time period and both related to Pier Francesco Lomellini, one his son and the other is his grandson through Pietros daughter. At least One of these two Leonardo Lomellini is a trade merchant that provided black slaves to new Spain(Mexico). The Leonardo Lomellini ( son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini - daughter of Pietro Francseco Lomellini) that is the grandson is the one that is positively identified as a merchant having residence in Castilla so he is the most likely Leonardo Lomellini that provided the slaves to the new world. He is also Vicenzo's first cousin ( the Vicenzo Lomellini that is father to Carlo Lomellini (1)). This Leonardo also had daughters and only one son (that did not leave descendants) and that would explain the continuation or transfer of this business to his nephew who later tried to monopolize this business. This was a different nephew, not Carlo Lomelin.
The Leonardo Lomellini that is the son of Pier Francesco could also have been a merchant as his father in law was a big time merchant who also had business interests in Spain and Portugal.
I have been able to identify whom I believe is the most likely Luis Lomelin as a member of a branch of the Lomellini family that had established residency in Castilla.This Luciano Lomellini has a brother that is also identified as being from the Lomellini branch that settled in Castilla and is merchant involved in The slave trade. I have also found more circumstantial evidence that also increases the probability that I have also identified the correct Carlo Lomellini. However, I have not found any documents in Mexico that positively identify them as being the same people.
The information that I have gathered on Carlo and Luis Lomellin continues to slowly build and point towards their probable identification.
R.A.Ricci
I finally found a Luigi Lomellini in the 15th century but he was born to early and can't be our Luis Lomelin that goes to Nueva Espana.
The little bits of information that I do find point to Luciano Lomeli Spinola (1) being Luis Lomelin
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini. [
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala But possibly from 1st wife (I did further research but don't have the info in front of me and I don't recall which one was the mother)
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola
This Luciano Lomellini 's family is the Lomellini family that is found living in Castilla and is one of the Lomellini branches that is involved in the slave trade. Luciano's nephew is involved in the slave trade with permission from the King of Castille. Everything that I find on this Luciano Lomellini adds to the probability that he is our Luis Lomellin.
Adding all the information that we have about Carlo Lomellini we can see why people may have mistaken them for brothers. They both came from an Italian Lomellini family living in Castilla, they both had a connection to slavery, Luis's nephew was a slave trader and Carlo's mother was a slave before his father married her. They both had a father named Vicenzo Lomellini Even though they were distant cousins (4th cousins) their families were in contact with each other through their associations with Marco Lomellini, their relative. Marco made good use of his relatives to employ them in his many business ventures. Marco also brought his wife's family into his business ventures. Luis Lomellini Spinola was also related to Marco's wife through his mother Catarina Spinola and his great grandmother Pometta Spinola.
R A Ricci
Carlos Peredo
To León de Tejada et al
I just found in PARES a few records that I´m almost sure are related to the Lomellinis we are talking about but you can only find them searching for "Comelín"; and precisely, there are one or two records about a Leonardo "Comelin", I think that´s de son of Girolamo di Tobia that you mention in your post.
There´s another interesting record about "El magnífico" Benet Comelín doncel genovés mercader (I think in Barcelona) in a legal battle against another mercader genovés (image not available)
And there are one or two more documents mentioning some "Comelins"
Now, about the same time frame in which Carlo and Luis Lomelín lived in New Spain, there were some others with the same last name, does any one of you have some info about them?
I mean, for instance, there´s a Giovani Lomelín mmarrying 25-oct-1592 María Ramos, could he be the same Juan Carlos Lomelín that married María Cortés Benavides about 1609 ?
There´s Josepe Sánchez Lomelín who married Petronila de Soria ca 1584 and they baptized at least the following children in Pachuca :
Joseph 18-ago-1585
Manue 30-ene-1620
There´s also Agustina Lomelín marrying ca 1615 in México City Manuel del Castillo Villafañe;
María Lomelín who married ca 1605 the Captain Diego Barrientos Ribera Alcalde Mayor
who through their gandchildren Buenaventura and Cecilia connected with the Castilla Peralta y Rivadeneira, one of the most prominent families of that time and certainly "Royals" through the "Castilla" name.
Enough questions for today, hopefully we´ll have a more complete picture of this lastname both in Spain and in Mexico.
Regards
Carlos Peredo
I post here a line concerning one of those Comelinis I told you about in my last post.
"
13. Procura atorgada pels notaris de Tarragona Nicolau Rossell i Agustí Frexa a favor de Gaspar Spinola i Giovanni Comelino, mercaders genovesos residents a Barcelona (1542-08-21)"
As you can see, it involves two Genovese merchants living in Barcelona.
Would you agree with me that they made a mistake and that the last name in reality was Lomelín ?
I do not recall seeing Comelino seeing in any business deal with the Lomellini or Spinola but I might have overlooked it thinking that it was a graphical error. I agree with you that it is probably a mistake but we now must be on the lookout to see if this name comes up again. The Lomellini had many business deals with the other prominent families from Genoa that concerned interests outside of Genoa and in Barcelona, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, and Corsica. The Lomellini had multpple business interests throughout the Mediterranean.
If Comelino is not a graphical error than maybe it could be a variation of Lomellino in Basque.
You brought up a question regarding Maria Ramos and her husband Lomellini. At one time, Jaime Holcombe wrote that Carlo Lomelin and this man were the same person. We need to see if we can find his notes and see why he made this conclusion. Jaime Holcombe would include notes detailing his sources throughout most of his immense genealogical work but he did not provide sources on his information on Carlo Lomellin so we do not have any idea where he got this idea. In the beginning of my research I accepted his conclusions as facts but it wasn't until I was able to remove my research from his conclusions that I was able to focus on finding the Carlo Lomelin married to Maria Benavides. I do not know if Jaime Holcombe changed his mind on the Lomelin since I was only going on his earlier submissions to the Mormon library.
R A Ricci
To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.
Thank you
R A Ricci
To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.
Thank you
R A Ricci
It came to my attention two years ago that the Lomelín who in reality are the Lomelini family were one of the 7 principal houses of Genoa. I remember once, even a good colleague, D. Mariano González Leal reported certain documents that existed, but I am no professional in the italian language. I have found some using google books and other sources. Look up "Lomelini" in the search engine under books, you will find lots of genealogical related items in italian especially in the middle ages. One thing is certain our ancestors Carlo Lomelini and Luigi Lomelini were natives of Genoa and arrived in New Spain. Carlo settled in Nochistlán and I believe if I recall correctly Luigi made his way to Hidalgo. I hope this helps in some way. There truly is so much yet to be discovered about our ancestors and lineages. Documents to be read, analyzed, transcripted, published, preserved, etc.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
I descend from both Carlos and Luis Lomellini Most Lomeli in Los altos descend from just Carlos. Miguel hidalgo also descends from both Carlos and Luis.
Lomellini (o Lomellino)
Buon giorno a tutti,
Lomellini (o Lomellino). - Famiglia genovese, di origine forse lombarda, la cui potenza mercantile ed economica risale al sec. 12º (il capostipite, Vassallo, fu console del comune nel 1137); si affermò per l'attività bancaria nel sec. 14º e poi per la redditizia pesca del corallo, avendo ottenuto dalla Spagna l'esclusività per l'isola di Tabarca, perduta solo nel 1741, quando l'isola passò in possesso del bey di Tunisi. Tra i membri più notevoli di questa famiglia, che dette a Genova ben sette dogi (Giambattista, 1533-34; Giannotto, 1571-72; Giacomo, 1625-26; Giambattista, 1646-47; Stefano, 1752; Agostino, 1760-61; Giuseppe, 1777-78), si ricordano: Leonello (v.); Angelo, autore di una importante relazione sulla caduta di Costantinopoli (1453); Benedetto (1517-79), cardinale; Goffredo, ecclesiastico e attivo rappresentante della Repubblica genovese a Roma, come appare dal suo carteggio (1559-99); Giovanni Girolamo (m. 1659), altro cardinale; Giacomo, che ebbe parte notevole negli avvenimenti del 1746.
www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini/
Arrivederci,
Steven Francisco Hernández López
La famiglia Lomellini di Genova
Efectivamente, los Lomelín de Nochistlán eran originalmente la famiglia Lomellini di Genova, una de las siete familias más nobles y principales de la República de Génova, familia que ejerció el oficio de “Doge di la Repubblica”, como decir el Presidente, en múltiples ocasiones. Los Lomellini originalmente provinieron de La Lomellina “una regione storico-geografica, sita nella zona sud-occidentale della Lombardia compresa tra: il Sesia a ovest, il Po a ovest e a sud, il Ticino a est e il Basso Novarese a nord.”
Presentemente hay Lomellini en Italia, España, Portugal, México, Brasil, y en otros lugares, pero bajo varios rubros diferentes: Lomellini, Lomellino, Lomellina, Lomelín, Lomelí, etc.
Para poder remontar la genealogía antigua de esta familia, va a ser necesario, saber y leer los documentos originales en italiano. Como yo domino el idioma italiano, puedo leer y hacer búsquedas específicas sobres sus personajes, biografías, hazañas, historias, y datos. Este libro contiene la raíz troncal del linaje entero del apellido. “Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova” escrito por el señor Natale Battilana
http://books.google.com/books?id=wdA7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA257&lpg=PA257&dq=fam…
Entre las páginas 176 y 221 (del libro digitalizado) está la narración histórico-genealógica de los Lomellini. Descendemos de un hombre llamado Vassallo da Lumello, cónsul de Génova en el año 1197.
Pero también obviamente necesitamos conectar los Lomelínes mexicanos cono los Lomellini italianos. Tiene que haber documentos en AGI, PARES, u otros sitios.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Carlos Peredo
Hello All
I just came across a text that may lead to surprising genealogical news. It´s in the Book "Sevilla y sus mercaderes a fines de la Edad Media"
By Enrique Otte
I saw three paragraphs that may lead to well known families of "Los Altos", Aguascalientes,Zacatecas, etc.; here they are :
"...el 15-may-1506 Álvaro de Valladolid, Bernardo Grimaldi y Andrés de Carrión dieron poder a su compañero Bernardino de Isla para cobrar “de los señores del cabildo y regimiento de Sevilla….en 25-may-1506 el consejo firmó como siempre ante notario un asiento con Francesco Doria en nombre de Giuliano Lomellino por 2,000 cargas (de trigo) ...atuaron por parte de la ciudad …… los veinticuatros Alonso de Jaén de Roelas, Luis Méndez de Sotomayor y Pedro Suárez de Castilla, y el ... en la nao vasca Santiago, del maestre Martín Romo, 199 cargas"
Now, beginning with Bernardino de Isla and Andrés Carrión, I remeber in "Andariegos y Pobladores: Nueva España y Nueva Galicia" a brother of another Bernardino de Isla called Diego de Isla accuses in 1572 a certain Pablo Carrión of bigamy because Carrión was married in Sevilla and re-married in México. Pablo Carrion is said to be the builder of the "naos" of Legazpi´s expedition to The Filippines in which Carrión failed to participate. Couriously his second wife, after the divorce, goes to Filippines and there she gets married again.
I´m guessing that those "sevillanos" of the beginning of the XVI century have to be the previous generation of those "Isla" and "Carrión" that we see in "Andariegos"
And we see that those "sevillanos" were merchants at the same time that there was another merchant called Giuliano Lomellino who is represented in a commercial transaction by another "italiano" : Francesco Doria.
An Alonso the Jaén de Roelas is also mentioned and that brings to my mind those two last names that also appeared in México in the same región.
I´m guessing then : That the Lomelín of México are related to Giuliano Lomellino and that Bernardino de Isla was the father of the Bernardino de Isla that married Magdalena de Lavezares, whose son : Benito was the father of Magdalena de Lavezares and María de Isla.
Let´s recall that in the second half of the 15th century ther was another "italiano" living in Sevilla and that he is undoubtedly the ancestor of the sisters "Isla- Lavezares" , his name was Guido Lavezari a Genovese editor, grand father of Guido de Lavezares who lived in México several times and that finally was named "Virrey" of the Filippines.
What do you think ?
Carlos
Algo sobre Battista Lomellini, Doge di la Repubblica di Genova, para que vean además las armas de los Lomellini.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battista_Lomellini
Steven Francisco Hernández López
En mis datos sobre los apellidos de Génova aparecen los apellidos Isola y Lavezzari. Parece que estos apellidos italianos luego fueron hispanizados con las ortografías de Isla (en italiano, Isola significa Isla) y Lavezares (porque en italiano, palabras que terminan en –i son plurales masculinas). Creo que estas familias distintas estaban ya vinculadas por ser genovesas y en el ámbito español se unieron. Ya en México por eso tan seguido aparece el apellido Isola como Isla o de Isla así nomás.
Solo una sugerencia para considerar.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Gracias portan interesante libro es genial también en estos documentos hablan de los Fregosi Fregoso o como Campofregoso y los Grimaldi que tenia entendido estaban emparentados pero solo pensé que era un mito o leyenda romántica .ahora y gracias a ustedes pues la duda podría despejarse claro que con la ayuda de un traductor hasta pronto.
Hello Steve,
I took a look at the book that you mentioned "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battliana.
This book has a lot of information on the Lomellini family, just like you said it would. If you take a look at page 192, [ page 16 of the Lomellini chapter], you will find the Carlo Lomellini, son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia, that Is possibly our ancestor, Carlos Lomellini. This page even corroborates the information that identifies Porzia as a slave and Vincenzo's wife {schiava, poi moglie}. The information identifying Porzia as HIS slave, prior to their marriage, is found in her baptismal record that is not part of this book.
Thanks for all the informative posts. They have provided valuable resources to my research.
I do not know if you remember me. I met you and Mike Guttierrez many, many years ago. That day that we met was supposed to be the day that I gave up genealogy. My intention was to share my information of over 20 generations with other genealogists that may want to take my info and add to it theirs. I was going to walk away from genealogy. I had not expected Mike, you, and the other people in that meeting to reignite the passion that I have for this hobby.
Thanks again
R A Ricci
Yeah I definitely remember you...It was the Orange Family History Center if memory serves me right. You had data on Toribio Hernandez de Arellano & Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza and a whole lot more. But I, like you also, have had my ups and downs, and ins and outs with genealogy. Sometimes this passion has to cede its place to other more pressing concerns of life, as with me over the past...oh say 3 years. But I too am rebounding and making a come back.
But in regards to our Lomelin/Lomelllini ancestry, when I downloaded the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana [download at http://books.google.com/books?id=wdA7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq=Genealo…], and opened the PDF file I located the entire Lomellini chapter from page 479 to pg. 528 of 576. I read the introductory heading regarding the history and origin of the family and it was basically what has been widely reported. Carlos Lomellini is by default a descendant of "Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova nell'anno 1197".
You were spot on concerning the precise lineage from Vassallo da Lumello all the way down to the Carlo Lomellini were are suspecting based on the records of "gli carte nobiliari" is OUR Carlo Lomellini.
Based on what I read and what you had already presented you hit the nail right on the head. I think for once we may have something here people. The legend of the slave trade, or the "slave" rumor, is indeed a persistent family legend. What a coincidence that in the most trustworthy sources available on the matter point almost directly to Carlos Lomellini, son of Vincenzo Lomellin & Porzia, "schiava, poi moglie" (slave, later wife). From what I have gathered the "1587" that all the kids of Vincenzo Lomellin & Porzia - Carlo, Catterina, Livia, Lavinia, Isabella, and Gironima - have over their names, means they were all alive that year when they were mentioned in some family document or record, probably a last will and testament. So Carlo Lomellini was already alive in 1587, as were all his sisters. And sisters mind you, not brothers named Luigi nor Giovanni-Battista Lomellini. I have been asking myself...D'ove stanno questi fratelli d'il nostro Carlo Lomellini?
So the lineage you gave a while back with all those wonderful sounding Italian Genoese names is most likely our ancestral lineage. I have already begun the task of inputting the names and family connections presented by the 45 "carte nobiliari". The lineage that leads directly to Carlo Lomellin follows this course once you first download the book:
Introduction: pg. 479-483/576
Carte 1: pg. 483/576
Carte 2: pg. 484/576
Carte 8: pg. 490/576
Carte 14: pg. 496/576
Carte 16: pg. 498/576
Carte 31: pg. 513/576
Carte 32: pg. 514/576
End: pg. 528/576
In summary, the two lines of descent from Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova, to Carlo Lomellini are as follows:
1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1287 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Tomasina - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Leonello da Lumello (Lenello Lomellini) - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1343 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................+Caterina Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Napoleone Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................... 7 Niccolo Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
......................... +Luchina Lercari Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Domenico Lercari
...................... 8 [2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............................ +[1] Tobia Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Tobia Lomellini Mother: Orietta
.......................... 9 [3] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[4] Battina Grillo - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
............................. 10 [5] Tobia Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................... +[6] Giorgietta Gentile - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Father: Stefano Gentile
................................. 11 [7] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................................... 12 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini Born: ca. 1540 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
.......................................... +[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" Born: ca. 1551
........................................ 13 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. - Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown
........ 4 Oberto da Lumello- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Angela- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................. +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............... 6 Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................... +Orietta- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
................... 7 [1] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia--
.........................+[2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
...................... 8 [3] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............................ +[4] Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
.......................... 9 [5] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[6] Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Stefano Gentile
............................. 10 [7] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia.
................................. 11 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1540 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown
.......................................+[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: ca. 1551--
.................................... 12 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown
Based on your records, does this concur with what you have? What original documents or books have your referenced and cited? What are their titles, author, dates of publication? Do you possess copies of these records? Perhaps a random citation in a bibliography in one of those books helps unlock the mysteries even further.
What we further need to do is investigate in the archives of the Sagrarios de Guadalajara, Valladolid, y Ciudad de México to see if what documents exist that can irrefutably prove that this is the correct lineage of the Famiglia Nobile di Lomellini that became the vast Familia Lomelín de Nochistlán/Mexticacán and the rest of Los Altos de Jalisco. I'm still not 100% convinced that this is our EXACT lineage, we need proof undeniable. But it's the best we got and the furthest we have seriously gotten on this subject...so I'll take, for now.
Buona notte...Andiamo!
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Hello and you're welcome of course Rick.
My last message was directed to you upon recalling when we had met...that WAS you! Was it Orange or L.A.? It has been a while. I bet we have both been working on some BIG projects haven't we? I read you are putting together a book...can't wait to read it. As for me...I have several in the works, and I still need to find more documents and time to put it all together. Like our Lomellini lineage.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
I am organizing various source documents I have located regarding Carlo Lomellini and his connection to Genoa, and the noble Lomellini family, their ventures throughout the Mediterranean, and their roles as Dogi della Repubblica di Genova, and translating and transcribing Italian records so I can share them with Nuestros Ranchos. Please look for them in a new thread I will start elsewhere en Español.
Gracias por tus preguntas e interés. Muchas cosas nuevas van a salir a la luz sobre varios apellidos genoveses como Lomellini, Fregoso, Doria, Spinola/Espínola, Bocanegra, Lavezzari, Isola, y muchos más, en los historiales y archivos de Génova, España y México.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Muchísimas gracias Paco, es muy amable de tu parte.I can't wait.
Sofia
A long time ago I worked on the family tree of Miguel Hidalgo. I found out that he descended from both Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. Through many sources I heard that Carlos and Luis were brothers. I would go on searching for their ancestors because I descend from Carlo Lomellini many times. I was concerned with Luis only as in how he would help me find the parents of my ancestor, Carlo, his so called brother.
The more I worked on this line, the more it became apparent that a long time ago historians and genealogist had stated that they were brothers and that this assumption had been handed down. Are they brothers? If they are not brother's, what could have contributed to them thinking that they were brothers? I believe that I have the answers to both questions. The third question I have is where did people get the date of birth, 1584 for Carlo Lomellini? I believe I have an answer to that question also. actually Steven Hernandez was the one that provided the answer to that question.
The lomellini family is not just any family. They believed in intermarriage with the other main families in genoa and kept many many records. One of the main reason for these records is that a lot of money was involved. the family had many major businesses in trade and banking. Some of the Lomellini wrote specific directions that property was not to be sold, but handed down generation by generation. Any one not following the directives of the will were disinherited and the next person in line would inherit. They were forced to keep genealogical tables as one of the conditions of these wills in order to comply with its demands. Both Carlo and Luis were part of the generations that had to be part of the genealogical tables or the inheritors were not complying. Compliance was mandatory if you wanted to keep your money. Both Carlo and Luis were known to belong to this illustrious family so their records have to be in the Italian genealogical tables. Including them was little effort. Not including them could and would lead to disaster if anyone found out and wanted to challenge you for not following the directives in the wills. The will specifically states that the inheritor LOSES his inheritance to the next person in line if the directives are NOT followed.
I looked all over for a Lomellini that had sons named Luis and Carlo. I rejected many possible because both brothers were not listed. Once I was able to separate the two, I just focused on Carlo since he was my ancestor. Any notes that I had made regarding Luis were put aside since he was not my ancestor. If you have been paying attention to the previous posts, you know that I believe that I have found Carlo's parents and they are Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia. Due to Carlo's mother premarriage social status, I predicted that when we find records on Carlo in Mexico that they may only list his father Vincenzo. Once I made that statement and went back and looked at all the records that I had put aside, a light bulb turned on, and I think I now know why Carlo and Luis were thought to be brothers.
Like I stated before, my priority was finding Carlos parents and Luis was not that important to me if he was not Carlo's brother. A couple of years ago, thanks to Claudia Casillas and her dispensas, I found out that I too descend from Luis Lomellini . Many people in Los altos de Jalisco also descend from him, they just don't know it yet.
Now that I believe that they were not brothers, I went went back and found a Luciano (Luis in Italian) Lomellini that I had rejected because he did not have a brother named Carlo. His age and everything fit but since he did not have a brother named Carlos his notes were put aside. I believe that this Luciano is our Luis and the reason that people had believed they were brothers was that they both were identified as being sons of Vincenzo Lomellini. Luciano is the son of a different Vincenzo. Since Carlo most probably identified himself using only his fathers name than people most likely assumed that they descended from the same Vincenzo Lomellini.
Even though we have not identified records in Mexico identifying Carlos and Luis parents we know that at one time in the past they had to exist and if we keep looking they may turn up one day. I bet Carlo's will only name his father and Luis's will name both his parents.
Thanks to Claudia Casillas, without her I would not have found the record that I had been looking for since 1985. Thanks to Steven Hernandez for encouraging me to go back to my notes to provide sources. This led to the discovery of my notes on Luciano Lomellini.
The records that we have on Luis and Carlos do not specify a birth date. The dates that we do have state that they were alive at a certain date and we know the dates of some their activities.from these dates we can come up with an approximate date, revising it as more information is accumulated. We have two dates showing that Carlo and Luciano were alive 1578 but looking at their parents ages they were most likely born in the late 1560's or 1570's with a possibility of 1580's. I believe that until we have more information, I feel comfortable giving Carlos a birth date c.1570 and Luis a birth date earlier than this, c.1550. This is not set in stone. People see a genealogical table and automatically assume that it is the birth year. Steven Hernandez pointed out that all of Vincenzo and Porzias children had the same date next to them. I believe that he correctly recognized that this date is of a record identifying them like a will and that they were all born prior to this date. They could have been quintuplets, and they could all of been born this year but most likely not. We must then look at their parents information and try to figure out the most likely date of birth. Sometimes when Two dates are given without identifying what the dates mean it is because two conflicting reports are given as two when they are born or he was born between those years. You have to look up other information to guide you on dates meaning if they are not specific.
Luciano Lomellini descends from two families that were in the upper class of the republic of Genoa.
Through his father, Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini he descends from Vassallo d Lumello, consul of Genoa.
Through his mother, Catarina Spinola, he descends from Guido Spinola, consul of Genoa
First the Lomellini line
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancsetors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini. [Goffredos brother Niccolo is married to the half sister of the Calvos, Luchina Lercari] [another brother, Battista Lomellini has a grandaughter who marries a businessman that, along with Paulo di Negro, had a business transaction involving sugar with Christopher Colombus.]
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + I believe his 2nd wife Novella Cicala I don't believe he had children with his first wife, I will confirm
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola
This Luciano is a fourth cousin to Carlo Lomellini, whether he is or isn't Luis Lomellini is only speculation at this point, recognizing the fact that our Luis is most likely in the available genealogical tables and we are having the Luis 's try on the glass slipper. The fact that they both descend from a Vincenzo Lomellini adds a twist to the story that goes far in explaining why they thought they were brothers. Our Luis Lomellini also married his daughter to the upper class in Mexico.
Many of Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Negro descendants used the surname Lomellini. Some Female descendants married cousins that kept residences in Portugal. This line in Portugal used the surname Lomelino Some actually kept three residences, because some had a residence in Castilla. This is why records naming place of origin sometimes listed two different city-states. Marco Lomellini Lomellini descended from separate branches of Lomellini. Marco Lomellini Lomellini married Bianca Spinola so Luciano Lomellini Spinola was related to Marco Lomellini children thru both Marcos parents and his wife Bianca.
One of the branches was the main branch that settled in Portugal. Marco had business interests in Castilla, Portugal, and Genoa. Marcos had a residence in Lisbon, Portugal. Marco Lomellini was held in high regard by the Portuguese royal court. Some of their descendants married their Lomellino cousin from Portugal. Cosmo Lomellino and Giorgio Lomellino Portuguese/Genoese brothers (sons of Bartolommeo Lomellini(Lomellino) that had residences in Madeira, Portugal, married Lomellini cousins from Genoa that descended from Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro. They considered themselves from multiple city-states not just one. That is why Carlos Lomellini is listed in a record in Mexico as being from reinos de Castilla and Genoa. During Carlos lifetime, Genova was affiliated with Castile.
Many Lomellini records are written ' Gio Batta Lomellini '. but it is only an abbreviation For Giovanni Battista Lomellini They never called them Gio Batta.
Francesco Calvo, Marco Lomellini and Giovanni Battista Lomellino Lomellini ( son of Cosmo Lomellino) shared some business interests in Portugal. Francesco Calvo is related to the Lomellini. The Calvo children were angry when their widowed mother married Domenico Lercari. In these decades, the aristocratic widows were not supposed to remarry. Cattaneo Calvo never forgave her for remarrying and left her out of his will (except for a pittance which emphasized his displeasure). Their mother had least one child, Luchina Lercari, with her second husband, Domenico Lercari. Luchina Lercari married Niccolo Lomellini(see Lomellini line above) and are ancestors of Carlo Lomellini.
The Spinola line
1. Guido Spinola, console of Genoa
2. Oberto Spinola + Siballade (Sybil) Volta (daughter of Ingo II Della Volta + Giulia) Ingo II was very rich and had monopolies like Lomellini
3. Oberto Spinola
4. Guglielmo Spinola
5. Andreolo Spinola
6. Ozone Spinola
7. Antonio Spinola + Cattarina Caramella
8. Niccolo Spinola + Cattarina Paternoster
9. Giovanni Battista Spinola + Margarita
10. Cattarina Spinola + Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini
11 Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1)
One thing that I needed to evaluate was to check on available information on the time frame when Luis and Luciano lived.
This was the concern I had with Carlo and Carlos Lomellini. With Carlo, I felt uncomfortable with the supposed date that most people have for Carlos birth year of 1584. Though possible, I found that he had most likely been born 10 to 15 years earlier. Once Steve Hernandez provided information (documents showing his wife as a widow) reinforcing my claim that he had been born much earlier, than my concern was erased. Another document that helps the reinforce the claim is the document that Steven provided stating an origin of both reino de Castillo and Genoa. I had predicted such a claim in a post on this nuestrosrancho site a couple of years ago because our Carlo Lomellini's family considered themselves from both places. They had great pride in being from both. Most people do not claim an origin from different locations. This Lomellini family did. However, further research has raised a red flag. The dates given for Carlo Lomellini(2) that had caused him to be put aside as a possible Carlo Lomelin are not birth dates. The dates given on the rest of his immediate family are not necessarily birth dates. This opens the possibility that Carlo Lomelini(2) lived at the same time as our Carlo Lomelin in Mexico, and he has a brother named Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2).
The concern I had with Luis and Luciano Lomellini is again the time frame. I believed that Luis would have been born even earlier than Carlos Lomellini and was concerned about others dating him to be the same age as Carlo Lomellini. I am relieved to find out that everything still seems to fit. Luis was at least a decade older than Carlo, maybe even 15 years older. The more documents that I look at, the more Luis and Luciano were alive at the same time.
The more I find on Luis Lomellini, the more he looks to be a Luciano Lomellini Spinola. I say a Luciano Lomellini Spinola because there is another possible Luis Lomeli which I will name Luciano Lomellini Spinola(2). If the the historians and genealogists that claim Carlo and Luis Lomellini's are brothers are correct than Luis Lomeli has to be Luciano Lomellini Spinola(2) as he is the only Luis with a brother Carlo Lomellini. I will soon post their line.
From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line
"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue dueno de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de fortuna
Hubieron y procrearon entre otro hijos a
Pedro de Villasenor de Lomelin
I would greatly appreciate any information anyone may have on Luis Lomeli and his descendants. Any information may provide clues to identifying his place in the Lomellini family.
R A Ricci
This material posted above is copyrighted and as such, any reference to it should reference the author. This warning prohibits anyone else from claiming to have previously copyrighted this information and requiring their consent.
Hi Steve,
It was Orange County. Mike Gutierrez invited me to your meeting. Does this group still meet? I would like to get list of the people that I met at that meeting? Is there someone I can contact for information?
Rick A Ricci
Hello Steve,
Nice to hear from you. I really like the manner in which you presented the information on the birthplace of the lomellinis. I really liked the way you distinguished between Genoa and the republic of Genoa. Many historians and genealogists forget that the difference between the two is similar to Mexico D.F. And Mexico the country though the republic of Genoa was not nearly as big as Mexico. I have been guilty of this myself. Many different languages were spoken in what we now consider Italy. There were different languages spoken, like Spanish and tabarchino, in parts of the republic of Genoa. Italy was a bunch of city-states, they were separate kingdoms like Aragon, Pamplona, Leon, Castile in Spain before coming together. The republic of Genoa included communities outside the city of Genoa.
Getting my information was a long story in itself that would fill a book. A lot of the documents are from a private library and are not from a book. The major citation is my unpublished book since many of the documents that I reference are not published. These documents were in a private library for centuries in Italy. Theses documents are not completely original as now I see a lot of the same information in other documents and books like the one you recommended, "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" by Nattale Battilana. I wonder if they had the same sources or if one was the source of the other. It took some convincing to get access to them. I do not have access to them right now because the owners of the documents are very protective of their documents and are not allowing access to them as they are in the process of scanning and organizing the documents.
Another reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo." Porzia was not black but you did not have to be black to be a slave in the 1500's in Europe and around the Mediterranean. One of Carlos distant cousins, Francesco Lomellini, also white, was actually taken as a slave while he was traveling in Turkey. Traveling was not always safe in those times. I saw the movie Captain Phillips last night, so I guess i can say it isn't always safe to travel in today's world. The Lomellini family was deeply involved in trade where family members would travel with the shipment of goods and make sure transactions were completed as planned.
I was not sure where to begin when I began my Lomellini research so I started off with the persistent rumors about Carlos Lomellini ancestors being businessman involved with slaves. I discovered that many of the Lomellini of the 14th through 17 centuries were businessman that liked to corner the market and discourage competition. they later went into banking with many of the Genoese families that intermarried. Some of the Lomellini men really stood out. One of these impressive businessmen was Marco Lomellini who had his hand in many enterprises and much contact with the Lomellini's from Portugal to Italy even though he was often based in the middle of the two, Spain. I went after everything that I could find on Marco Lomellini, Looking for info on him led me to these documents that were kept in a Italian family library for centuries.
Even though I used the 1584 date to guide my research because so many people cite it as Carlos's birth year, I now believe that we need to change this date to reflect the data provided. I believe that 1584 date is given in the belief that he had to been born at least by this date for his voyage to the new world in the early 1600's.
Even though the dates you give for Vincenzo Lomellini, Porzia, and Carlo Lomellini are all possible given the information we have on these people, I believe that these dates should be adjusted with the new data concerning Porzia.
I believe a birth date c. 1530 for Vincenzo Lomellin, a birth date c. 1540 for Porzia, and a birthdate c.1570 for Carlo Lomellini would be more accurate. Vincenzo is the owner of Porzia in 1551 so I believe he must have been at least 21 by then. Porzia is not an infant when she is baptized. she is a convert and has already been a practicing Muslim. If she was too young when Vincenzo took her in as a slave, I believe it would have been even more awkward to marry your slave if you took care of her from infancy. Let's make her at least 11 years old when Vincenzo has her baptized in 1551. Then even though it is possible for Porzia to give birth to Carlo Lomellini in her 40's, it makes more sense to give him a birth date c. 1570 when she would most likely be in her 30's. what do you think of this reasoning?
All of the other data you have is consistent with my records.
Looking forward to your input,
R A Ricci
To Steve
You are correct that we need to continue investigating the archives in the Sagrarios of Guadalajara, Valladolid, and Mexico City. However, I think that it is important to point out that the Valladolid Lomeli descend from Luis Lomeli and not Carlos. I believe that the Lomeli married to Pedro Villasenor Orosco and Francisco Villasenor in Valladolid descend from Luis Lomeli and Maria Olmos. Please let me know if your information differs from mine.
R A Ricci
Carlos Peredo
Rick
According to El Padre Ibarrola Luis Lomelín y su esposa María del Olmo fueron vecinos de Jiquilpan, Mich y su hija María casó con Juan de Villaseñor Patiño y ellos fueron los padres de Pedro Villaseñor Lomelín, el cual casó con Inés Fernández del Rincón; quienes tubieron a Juan Miguel de Villaseñor Lomelín, que casó con Elena Cortés Enríquez de Silva y esta última pareja fueron los padres de Joaquina de Villaseñor Cortés Lomelín, la que casó con su pariente Juan Gallaga Mandarte Lomelín y tubieron a Ana María Mandarte Villaseñor la mamá de MIGUEL HIDALGO Y COSTILLA.
That line is an interesting line that I have had the pleasure to research. But Hidalgos line doesn't connect to the masses in Los Altos. The line that I am most interested in confirming is Maria Lomelin Orosco descent from Luis Lomelin. This Maria Lomelin Orosco is the ancestor of many families in Los Altos de Jalisco. She is the wife of Francisco Villasenor. Is this Maria the daughter of juan Villasenor Orosco Patino and His wife Maria Lomelin?
From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line
"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue due no de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de fortuna
Hubieron y procrearon entre otro hijos a
Pedro de Villasenor de Lomelin
.
These are Hidalgos ancestors. This description of Luis Lomelin fits what we would expect of a description of Luciano Lomellini Spinola (1) as he descends from noble lines from both his father and mother. Descriptions like this one is what one expects of a descendent of Napoleone Lomellini y Teodora di Giorgio di Negro and also from the Spinola families.
R A Ricci
Dear Mr. Ricci
I found record of a marriage of Dona Juana Patino Villasenor to Juan Vergara (?) Lisalde. Diego Ysla Heredia was a testigo and also noted as escribano publico for Valladolid.
The record is from 1628 Valladolid. Here is the link:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5T9P-5C?i=263&wc=3NYJ-YWL%…
Familysearch Mexico, michoacan, morelia, sagrario metro matrimonios1623-42 image 264.
Juan Vergara Lisalde was not present, but was represented by another man.
Since you mentioned Juan Villasenor Patino, thought you might be interested. If you know how Juan and Juana are related, please post. And if you know of any connection to Juana de Heredia Patino (wife of cristobal sotelo moctezuma), or her heir, Lorenzo Patino de Vargas, please post.
Regards
Denise Fastrup
So far, I have found four mistakes in the Lomellini section of the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana
This book is an extremely valuable resource and these four mistakes seemed to have been made by misreading some documents and then placing a daughters name as the spouse or the father in laws name instead of the real spouses name. The good thing about Battiana's book is that the names can be cross referenced with other documents to get it correct.
There are also many omissions. Battilana's book is an incredible resource but any researcher relying solely on this book is making a big mistake. An example of an omission would be that Napoleone Lomellini had a wife before Teodora and at least three of the children are from her. Another example is that Marco Lomellini also had children from two women, one his wife and I am not sure if he was legally married to the other woman who was Portuguese and gave him two sons.
R.A.Ricci
There is a John Reyes who is not a member who wants to know who posted the genealogy of his family on the website. Does anyone want to take credit for posting the genealogy of "Geronimo M. Reyes"? I would like to put you and John together as you are probably cousins. But I can't seem to find a message with that title "Ancestors of Geronimo M. Reyes". Maybe its there and I just didn't find it yet so if anyone else with better tech savy would help that would be also welcome.
Joseph (email me please makas@nc.rr.com)
Gracias por la respuesta, es una verdadera pena que el censo ya no esté disponible porque era una herramienta extraordinaria para iniciar investigaciones genealógicas.
It's not just the 1930 census. Images of civil and parochial records from about the 1920s and later are also not available. I don't know why, but I suspect it's very likely related to privacy protection legislation that passed in Mexico earlier this year.
I'm looking for the parents of Joseph Padilla and his wife María Eusebia Lópes de Lara. They probably married before June of 1734 in either Jalisco or Guanajuato.
Joseph Padilla, noted as born in Cuarenta, Jalisco (date unknown) and died before 25 Jun 1746. He is the first husband of María Eusebia Lópes de Lara (born c1715 probably in León, Guanajuato).
I believe, but cannot yet prove, María Eusebia Lópes de Lara is the daughter of Donato López de Lara (b. c1685 & buried 30 Oct 1751 in León, Guanajuato) and Agueda Juliana de Soto (Sotomayor y Aguilar?).
María Eusebia Lópes de Lara (c1715 León?)
1st marriage: bef. June 1734? Joseph Padilla b. Cuarenta, Jalisco d. bef. 25 Jun 1746
1.1 Aguedas Juliana Padilla b. 1735 León, Guanajuato
m. 5 Mar 1753 don Juan Antonío Muñoz de Xeres
1.2 Joseph Marcelino Antonio Padilla b. c1739 Cuarenta, Jalisco
m. 13 Aug 1757 doña María Antonía Muñoz de Xeres
m. 10 May 1769 Antonía Victoria de Torres (India)
Per the marriage document of Eusebia Maria Lopez de Lara dated 1746 her first husband, Joseph Padilla, had been dead for 2 years and that former husband is buried at the church where she is getting married as stated therein.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VRSD-H5?lang=en&i=498
Note that per her marriage to Joseph Padilla he was from Queretaro. https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/GKRM-TB7
Thank you very much!
I have the record for her second marriage, but the record for her first marriage to Joseph Padilla eluded me. This is very helpful.
Yes, after I posted my original comment, I came to realize, upon further research, that Joseph Padilla was probably not born in Cuarenta as later documents infer. This proves it. I can now refocus my search to Queretaro.
Our family is descended from Joseph and Eusebia's son Marcelino, and this information will help us immensely.
Thank you again for your assistance.
I have been looking to find a connection between the Queretaro Padillas and the Jalisco Padillas. Hopefully this will help in my research of the Queretaro Padillas.
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
Rick, there are Padillas in Guanajuato that may be part of this group as well. Until today, I was concentrating effort into charting their relationships with one another.. now the search expands.
Hello Travis,
I too would like to chart the relationships between the Padillas from these different areas.
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci
Hello, all!
I am hoping to get some help with the address in the following document, please.
page 242, record 5049. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPJ1-K36
record 5220. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPJ9-JN3
I can make out house 607. It's the street name that I can't quite make out. Calle 44 Hidalgo.
I'm hoping to locate the nearest parish to search for baptismal records for the children of Hilario Lopez and Angela Morales.
Thank you!
David,
Up until the 1980's - 1990's, Guadalajara was divided into four sectors named Hidalgo, Juárez, Libertad and Reforma. Guadalajara is currently divided into 7 zones. Similarly Calle 44 was probably renamed since I was not able to find it in the current map of Guadalajara.
Best regards,
Austin Pérez
is for a marriage of Gabriela Alvarez and her parents are listed as Jose Maria Alvarez (in the parenthesis I need help understanding, something like "quien ante mi presto el consentimierrto necesario) and Gertrudis Orozco. . . .
My Spanish is not sufficient to understand what the priest is saying within the parenthesis so any help understanding what is being said here would be very much appreciated.
thanks,
Joseph
who before me lent the necessary consent
(Who gave me the necessary consent)
My 3x great grandfather was named Juan Romo de Vivar. He owned a hacienda just outside the city of Aguascalientes around 1884 called Hacienda Agostaderito.
Thank you, Jorge, for your information. It is very much appreciated, and helpful.
Hi Victoria,
Some aditional information: My mom’s maiden surname is Medina, if you consult the FamilySearch link that Manny sent you, you will find the ancestors from José Antonio Medina and going up 5 generations you will find Luis de Medina del Rincon y Romero Gutierrez y Valdivia, born in 1589 in Aguascalientes, who is my direct ancestor (11 generations).
Luis de Medina del Rincon married Maria Fernandez de Vaulus de Siordia y Navarro y Arias de Sotelo (María Fernández Vaulus in Family Search), she is the grand daugther of Petronila de Moctezuma who is believed to be descendant from Moctezuma II Xocoyotzin. But there is no full evidence.
Jorge Minchaca Medina
Saludos Jorge,
I disagree with your statement that says there is “ no full evidence”, as I personally saw a record that identified her as Moctezuma’s descendant. Lope Ruiz de Esparza states in the document that he had arrived from Spain two years prior and that between his arrival and that date he had married his wife who was a descendant of Moctezuma II. That record sits in the library of the Mormon Church in West Los Angeles, California.
Rick A. Ricci
Saludos Rick,
Thanks for your clarification, I said that there was no evidence because I wasn't sure that there was one. Now I can say that it is sure.
In Facebook there is the group "Descendants of Petronila Moctezuma" and some of the members doubt about this relationship, but nobody is as precise as you.
Thanks again for all the fine work you are doing.
Jorge
Hi Victoria,
I also have a lot of Romo de Vivar ancestors, eventhough I'm not descendant from José Romo de Vivar and Juana Maria Lopez de Nava.
I'm not as good as Manny and Rick but I have made some research about the Romo de Vivar. They had a lot of children and of course the fornames were sometimes repeated, therefore I like to search for the complete names.
According to my research, the complete names are: Juan's father: Joseph Ygnacio Romo de Vivar Lopez and his grandfather: Pedro Joseph Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar y Muñoz de la Barba.
Furthermore, Pedro Joseph Francisco Xavier is the son of Cristobal Romo de Vivar Delgado (born in 1685) and Maria Muñoz de la Barba Escoto.
I wish you to enjoy your research.
Jorge Minchaca
Your welcome Victoria. My mom’s maiden surname is Romo. Her father, my maternal grandfather, is a third cousin of Santo Toribio Romo.
and I also thank you Manny Diez Hermosillo, keep up the great work,
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you, Rick A.Ricci and Manny Diez Hermosillo for the helpful information.
Jose Romo de Vivar and Maria del Carmen Ramirez were married 1/Dec/1804 in Aguascalientes.
Jose Romo de Vivar is the son of Jose Romo de Vivar y Muñoz de La Barba and Juana Maria López de Nava.
Maria del Carmen Ramirez is the daughter of Pioquinto Ramirez and Maria Guadalupe Cobos.
Reymundo Velsaco married Mariana Medina on 3/Mar/1821.
Reymundo Velasco is the son of Juan Velasco and Dolores López.
Mariana is the daughter of Jose Antonio Medina and Josefa (? Gómez or Gama, )
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Victoria,
That information can be found on FamilySearch.org, which is a free website (you only have to register with them). According to their marriage record, his parents were Jose Romo and Carmen Ramirez, and hers were Reymundo Velasco and Mariana Medina:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DW78-C9ZM
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Dear all,
While searching for the well-knowned couple Pedro Nieto and Josefa Corona from Pinos, I noticed that the archives of Bizkaia "Archivo Histórico Foral de Bizkaia" mentioned in their website having the following document : "Probanza de hidalguía y limpieza de sangre de Josefa Corona, hija de Cosme López y Catalina Corona, realizada en el año 1646 que incluye:
Privilegio Real dado por el Rey Carlos I a favor de Manuel Monje concediendo un escudo de armas por las labores desarrolladas en la conquista y pacificación de la ciudad de Méjico y de Nueva España."
In the same link (https://apps.bizkaia.eus/ARIT/ARITSVisualizarFichaDocumento?seccion=8&e…), you can see that another document is mentioning "Josefa Corona, esposa de Pedro Nieto".
The time and location matches with our Josefa Corona and I wondered if anyone had ever came accross this lead ?
Kind regards,
Tristan
Hola Tristan,
Others have researched the Monje de Leon/Alvarez Corona families. Silvia H. Corona comes to mind, and has published many studies available online. I’ve also posted some work I’ve done on this family here at NR: https://nuestrosraices.com/en/node/25061
That document from August 1594 isn’t Catalina de Leon’s testamento, it’s regarding her late husband’s estate. Throughout that document, Catalina Corona is identified as their daughter and heir. She was already married to Cosme Lopez and said that she was over the age of 24 years.
Catalina Corona is also mentioned in the testamento of her half-sister, Mariana Osorio, who was daughter of Catalina de Leon from her first marriage, to Cristobal de Giron Osorio, in which she identifies Catalina Corona, wife of Cosme Lopez, as her sister. She also bequeaths a slave named Maria to her niece, Doña Jusepa Corona, though she doesn’t say whose daughter Jusepa is. She also mentions another niece - a nun named Josepha de Jesus: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69L5-5?view=explo…
Antonio: in which city was Josefa Corona’s dowry card submitted? And is it available online? If so, please share the link. Thanks!
I don’t think this family had roots in Vizcaya. This file is located in that archive because that’s where Antonio Luis de la Plaza was living, and he needed to provide proof of his status as an hijodalgo. But he was born in 1672 in Madrid, where he was baptized at the church of San Justo. His father was a member of the king’s Guardia Amarilla, so they would’ve lived where ever the court was. But they do mention someone named Rafael Carrera, who presented his probanza/limpieza in 1636 in the principality of Catalunya, “to enter into the service of His Majesty.” Rafael Carrera is obviously related to Maria Carrera, Antonio Luis’ mother, so the Carrera’s might have roots in Catalunya. My guess is, Maria Carrera was the daughter of Manuel Nieto Corona; “Carrera” is not among the surnames of the known ancestors of Manuel Nieto, so it might be his wife’s surname, but that’s just a guess.
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Very interesting lead! Initially I too thought it seemed a bit far fetched however after connecting some dots I now think this has some traction!
From what we do know, in 1641, around 10+ years after our ancestors Pedro Nieto and Josefa Corona married, they convened to the justices to affirm their marriage dowry. Josefa’s dowry was given to Pedro by Nicolas de Urdiales (Valdes) and his wife Catalina Lopez Corona! The sudden apparent need for it to be in written form was to “maintain the peace, amicability, and ensure no fraud to the dowry givers.” A second document confirms the receipt of the dowry, shedding light that it was originally agreed upon in 1630. The dowry was valued at 4,200 pesos and was loaded with goodies like;
-a pair of blue silk sheets
-2 pink goatskin pillows with floral designs from Ruan
-5 Agnus Dei (cordero de Dios/lamb of God figurines) ornate with gold, feathers, and pearls
-10 spoons and 1 large ladle all minted of silver
-a decorative ornate salt shaker
The documentation is so vivid with details and mentioning numerous times how Catalina and Josefa are sisters, but it fails to mentions who their parents are. In any event I can now correlate Josefa having a sister who supposedly is her mother's namesake.
As Manny stated above, let us recall our ancestor Pedro Nieto’s 1658 testamento... it makes mention that his and Josefa’s son Manuel (the first born son) was residing in "Los Reinos de Castilla" and their son Lorenzo was of the religious order of San Francisco. Therefore, in my eyes, it seems obvious there was some immediate contact/connection with Castilla in their generation.
Also I too have never seen the surname Perez Barlota or any mentioning of a brother named Juan in the documents I have encountered. Perhaps a brother-in-law to Josefa? Even more intriguing. Also the document Manny cited “Revista de la Sociedad de Historia, Genealogía y Heráldica de Jalisco" fails to mention a daughter named Catalina? After a quick comb through of other couples within this document, there is no mention of known children to the couples born before 1600 (here and there only in 1599, but this is obviously so as this is intended for the 17th century only).
I too am now very curious as to why Josefa would need a probanza de hidalguía and a limpieza de sangre? What are the contents within these documents? Also the fact that they are stored in the Vizcaya archives, is this a clue to where her family is from? Or was this merely because her son Manuel living there?
Wow. If I had seen the relationships given here on an online family tree, you know, one of those sourceless trees on which the relationships are based purely on matching names&surnames, I’d have ignored this. But this is the actual description of the contents of an actual file catalogued at an actual government archive; unless the documents are doctored, there is no reason to doubt the veracity of the relationships given.
Many of us have wondered whether Josefa Corona descended from Martin Monje cc Isabel Alvarez Corona, and if so, how? This appears to confirm that, and reveals how. And you’re right, times & locations do match: a limpieza & probanza done for Josefa Corona cc Pedro Nieto in 1646, and the power of attorney to do so granted to her cousin, Lic. Martin de Leon (son of Pedro Villanueva and Beatriz Corona, who was sister of Catalina Corona), and before Francisco Morales (escribano publico and alguacil mayor in Sierra de Pinos). Btw, the name of the ancestor who was granted an escudo de armas in 1539 was Martin Monje and not Manuel Monje, but that’s academic.
I wonder why Josefa Corona needed to do a limpieza & probanza? Maybe for her son, Fray Lorenzo Nieto, who I believe joined the Dominican order? And I wonder how Antonio Luis de la Plaza, born 1672 in Madrid, Spain, descended from them? Could he be a grandson of Manuel Nieto Corona, who was said to be residing in Spain when Pedro Nieto wrote his testamento in 1658? Maybe his mother, Maria Carrera, was daughter of Manuel Nieto? That’s the only possible link. Wow. I don’t descend from this family, but I’d still love to get my hands on this dossier, and see how all of the pieces fall into place!
Anyway, I looked for the power of attorney granted in 1646 to Lic. Martin de Leon in the online Guadalajara notary archives, but the only document regarding Pedro Nieto and Josefa Corona that I could find was this one, dated 30 Nov 1635, in which, as the executors and heirs of her deceased brother, Juan Perez Barlota, they grant powers to Diego Fernandez de Cordoba, to settle some accounts on their behalf: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-83SK-4?view&lang=…
I’ve seen no record of Cosme Lopez cc Catalina Corona having a son named Juan, nor have I seen the surnames Perez Barlota associated with them. Other than a carta de pago dated 2 Jun 1627 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69LV-T?view&lang=…, I’ve been unable to find anything on Juan Perez Barlota, who would’ve died some time before 30 Nov 1635; unless his wife preceded him in death, I doubt he was married, since he named Doña Josefa and Pedro Nieto as his executors and heirs. I searched for his testamento, but no luck; maybe someone else can try?
Anyways, thanks for sharing this, Tristan - great find!
For anyone descending from Pedro Nieto cc Josefa Corona, this would be how she descends from Martin Monje:
i. Alonso Gutierrez de Leon cc Doña Inés de Alonso Monja
ii. Don Martin Monje de Leon cc Doña isabel Alvarez Corona
iii. Doña Catalina de Leon y Corona cc Juan Fernandez Nieto
iv. Doña Catalina de Leon y Corona cc Cosme Lopez
v. Doña Josefa Corona m. Pedro Nieto
As per his testamento, Pedro Nieto was from Linhares, Coimbra, Portugal, son of Hernando de Almedia and Isabel Hernandez.
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Dear Manny,
As always, your inputs are immensely helpful.
I would also have ignored if this information came from those numerous incoherent online trees, (in my opinion those have become quite unmanageable and pose significant risks of spreading misinformation) but as it is an official source, I also feel confident about it.
Additionally, I found a reference in an old edition of the “Revista de la Sociedad de Historia, Genealogía y Heráldica de Jalisco” (October 1978), available here: https://www.museocjv.com/revistasociedadhghj/Revista%20de%20la%20Sociedad%20de%20Historia%20Genealogia%20y%20Heraldica%20de%20Jalisco%20AC%201978-8.pdf. The publication lists several children of Don Cosme López and Doña Catalina de León o Corona, all baptized in Guadalajara:
I.-Josefa.-18 de Octubre de 1600 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LSX-3P?i=15&lang=fr)
II.-Adriano.-24 de Febrero de 1602.
III.-Cosme.-26 de Diciembre de 1603.
IV.-Magdalena.-18 de Septiembre de 1606.
V.-Lucia.-26 de Diciembre de 1607.
VI.-Magdalena.-21 de Octubre de 1609.
Juan is not mentioned among those children however.
Also, how do you connect Catalina de Leon y Corona to Juan Fernandez Nieto and Catalina de Leon y Corona ? Has this family already being investigated ? There is a testamento dated 1594 for Catalina (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-135Q-4?lang=fr&i=135)) as well as for Juan Fernandez Nieto (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-135Q-G?lang=fr&i=144) but I’m afraid my reading skills are very limited when looking at 16th century documents.
Kind regards,
Tristan
on this page of family search: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-4VSW-LB?i=161&cc=1804458&lang=en
child is Je Bernabe of Blas Palacios and Prudencia Guerrero (right side first complete record)
I'm trying to figure out the Abuelo Paterno first name of . . .is it ???Hoquinto??? Palacios and Micaela Reyes (see the attached snip)
thanks,
Joseph
My reading is: Pioquinto (Pío Quinto)
The couple is also mentioned in these sources:
Hello!
I'm hoping someone here is familiar with the López de Lara, Ahumada/Aumada and Medina families of Lagos de Moreno circa 1570-1665 and/or can point me in the right direction for answers to the below questions.
I found the following baptism in parish register of Santa María de los Lagos:
Andrés, bt. 14 Oct 1615 in Lagos, son of Andrés de López and Isabel de Medina
Is Isabel de Medina (above) is the same person as doña Isabel de Medina (below)?
1. Antonio de Lepe (López?), son of doña Isabel de Medina
m. doña Josepha de Ahumada/Aumada
1.1 Francisco, bt. 14 Nov 1644 La Asunción, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico (madrina: Da Ysabel de Medina)
1.2 María, bt. 14 Aug 1648 La Asunción, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico (madrina: "Doña Isabel de Medina Viuda, y madre de el dicho Antonio de Lepe")
1.3 Francisca de Aumada, vecina de León (1673), y en Lagos (1676) en la casa de Antonia de Villegas (madre de Juan de Santoyo)
m. 23 Jan 1673 in Lagos to Juan de Santoyo, bt. 2 Aug
Quiro encontrar información de mi abuelito en lado de mi padre. Arnulfo Chavez Godinez, mi abuelito era regalado a un señor soltero que era conocido como Leon Casillas en la sierra cerca los otates, la troja, y la Sierra.
Cuenta la historia que una pareja tenía dos hijos pequeños. El mayor murió joven (de 2 a 6 años). Entonces se llevaron al niño, mi abuelo "Arnulfo Chávez Godínez", y recorrieron los ranchos intentando dar al menor en adopción.
Un hombre soltero conocido como "Don León" o León Casillas adoptó a Arnulfo cuando tenía entre 3 días y 3 años.
Supuestamente, Don León era un hombre con una nariz grande y cicatrices de acné en el rostro.
Me gustaría encontrar más información en la familia que regaló a mi abuelito o en el señor que lo crió como su propio niño.
Does anyone have a solid theory on the identity of Simón Báez, who married María de la Cerda [alias María de Balencuela?] probably sometime before Sep 1652?
Conjectured and proven children:
Nicolasa Báez de la Cerda b. c1653 probably in San Luis Potosí
Maria Báez b. 1653 in San Luis Potosí [may be the same person as sister Nicolasa Báez de la Cerda]
Simon Báez de la Cerda b. c1656 probably in Aguascalientes
Ygnacio Báez de la Cerna b. c1658 probably in Aguascalientes
Blasa Báez b. c1658? probably in Aguascalientes
Antonio Báez Lopes b. before 1659 probably in Aguascalientes (not proven)
Sebastiana Báez de la Cerda b 1659 in Aguascalientes
Simón Báez died in Aguascalientes and was buried 14 Dec 1659.
I lean toward one of two possibilities:
There was a Simon Baez, who along with Antonio Lopez Merino, was arrested regarding the discovery of some skeletal remains on the latter’s ranch, on 15 Sep 1655, in San Luis Potosi. He was age 37 (b. 1618), spaniard, mayordomo of Capitan Juan Caballero, on this one’s ranch in Valle de Mexquitic. He couldn’t sign his name, so he wasn't schooled. There’s no mention of his marital status, but he had a brother named Francisco Baez, who also lived in the area. One of the victims was Simon Baez’s Indian criada, named Melchora, who had run away with the other victim (Juanillo, indio criado de Antonio Lopez Merino). Simon Baez admitted to having had an illicit relationship with Melchora, that ran for some 3 years, up to the day that she fled. It was reported that, while chasing after the fleeing Indians, he had become so enraged, that he threatened to kill them, if they caught up with them. For this reason he was held under suspicion. He was acquitted of all charges and released: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHW9?i=236&wc=MXB…
That’s all I’ve seen about this person, but I’ll keep my eyes open. He is probably the same Simon Baez who was married to Maria Valenzuela, residents of Mexquitic, according to their daughter’s baptism record, as you mentioned.
Good luck!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Hi Manny,
That is amazing. Thank you
I found this since I posted this topic: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GTZ-GLS
A Simón Báez is mentioned as owner of esclavo, Francisco de la Cruz, husband of the madrina. It's in Guanajuato, but not very far from San Luis Potosí. Maybe the same man?
Best,
Travis
I was contacted about a the below inactive .pdf Is there someone in the group that can supply me or this person with the correct file?
Buenos días, perdón que lo moleste.
Ví en la página de Nuestros Ranchos un enlace al pdf del libro Andariegos y pobladores: Nueva España y Nueva Galicia pero el enlace ya no sirve.
Usted tendrá el PDF?
Muchas gracias, le envío un saludo cordial.
thanks,
joseph
This book has much valuable information. However, I recall that it had a few mistakes in it where they wrongly identified a few people with other people of similar names. I think I found four mistakes. So be careful when using this book as a source.
Rick A. Ricci
Hello everyone!
Does anyone know who Gerónima de Ornelas (widow) is?
Gerónima is noted in the household of Antonia de Villegas in the 1669 Padron of Lagos:
Casa de Antonia de Villegas mestissa [alias Mendoza b. before 1629, widow of Juan de Santoyo alias Pérez]
Geronima de Ornelas Viuda ++ [Unknown]
Antonio de Santoyo casado con ++ [son, alias Mendoza]
Melchora Basques mestissa ++ [daughter-in-law, alias de los Reyes]
Angelina Peres mestissa soltera ++ [daughter]
Ysidro de Santoyo + [grandson?]
Juan de Santoyo + [grandson]
I have not identified the location of this home, but it is somewhere south of Lagos; probably close to Los Jacales.
I cannot find any information about Gerónima de Ornelas, but Antonia de Villegas is an ancestor thrice over and two women with whom I believe she may be closely related are both also ancestors (María de Villegas alias de Rodas alias González b. c1630 who married Juan de Saavedra; and María de González alias de los Reyes b. c1610 who married Domingo de Espinosa
When everything is working right it is soooo easy to take the website for granted. But just let some little thing go wrong and suddenly those of us that appreciate the site for what it is are quickly brought back to reality. I guess what I'm trying to say is that one individual in the group is mainly responsible for keeping the sight humming along so nicely, Lee Ingram. Lee has donated countless (well I'm sure he could count them) hours to revive and act as the keeper of the NuestrosRanchos.org website. I so much appreciate you and your efforts Lee and saying THANK YOU doesn't feel like enough, but here goes anyway THANK YOU.
Joseph Puentes
Thanks for the kind words Joseph! There is so much info that has been contributed to this site by the membership for over 22 years now! I am a little bit selfish in wanting to keep the site running, so others can enjoy it (and learn) as much as I do. There are some excellent researchers that participate via this site; and I am always grateful to contribute where I can.
Hola, everyone:
My name is Ryan and I am currently researching my 10th great-grandfather, Andrés de ARAIZA. I believe he was born around 1635 and he married Micaela de YSASI/ISASSI around 1655. Their children are: Catalina de ARAIZA (1658-?) and Antonio de ARAIZA (1661-?), both of whom were born in Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco. Andrés de ARAIZA died 4 Jul 1662 in Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco.
This WikiTree* says that Andrés de ARAIZA's parents were Juan de ARAIZA y MEDINA and María de las Islas, however I have not found any sources that support this.
*WikiTree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Araiza-16
Has anyone come across my 10th great-grandfather, Andrés de ARAIZA, in their research and knows how he fits into the picture?
Siempre agradecido,
Ryan R.
The records that provide this information on Andres’s parents is found in the marriage dispensations:
Dispensa matrimonial de su hija Catalina con Antonio Orozco, Montejano Hilton, María de la Luz. Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia: expedientes de la série de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII. Mexico: M. Montejano Hilton, 1999, pg. 26. 3 de junio de 1682
Hi, Rick - thank you so much for your reply!
Are those dispensas the same ones that mralvarez314 shared on this post? I read through those scans several times, but I did not see any reference to Andrés de ARAIZA's parents, or to Juan de ARAIZA y MEDINA and María de las Islas - did I miss something?
I do not have access to that book of dispensations by M. Montejano Hilton, can the book be accessed online?
¡Gracias!
Hi everyone,
I'm trying to read another document from Francisco de Covarrubias, but I can't make out what the highlighted words say. Could someone take a look and let me know what the highlighted words say? I really appreciate it.
Great job, rvs, that’s how I read it, though there are a couple I see differently, tell me what you think:
4. q[ue h]ay
10. de+ella ya con la m[erce]d
13. al s[eñ]or o[bi]spo
14. no [h]ay otra cosa
15. aviso a v[uestra] m[erced]
Might #2 be “conste”? When I read through, neither really makes sense to me! ;)
For abbreviations, I find this website very helpful: https://www.iifilologicas.unam.mx/dicabenovo/index.php?page=inicio
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Thank you so much for your help and for sharing that tool, Manny Díez! I think that your proposals are more acurate than what I had preoviously shared.
It will be really useful!
Best regards,
Hi @alexfanatico, I am no expert but it seems to me like some of the words are the following:
1. Probanza
2. Conoce
3. Juzgaran
4. ** can't understand this one
5. Cosa faltare
6. Ser cosa tan
7. Tan remotas
8. Ser sus padres
9. Le sobra
10. De ella, ya con la mal * not 100% sure of "mal" as the last word
11. Proveyó
12. Avisado
13. Al Santo Oficio or Sr. Oficial * not 100% sure
14. Hay Dicha Cosa * not 100% sure of "hay" as the first word.
15. Aviso ahí
16. ** can't understand this one
17. Su mujer __ __ conserve. ** can't make out two or three words of this part.
I hope it may be useful!
Best regards,
Researching possible relative Juan de Saavedra in 17th century Lagos, and I ran across the de Saavedra y Guzman family, Basically, the below pedigree is cobbled from different sources. In some cases, I found this family group in online trees with the addition of my Juan de Saavedra and his wife Maria de Villegas:
PEDIGREE 1
1 Antonio de Saavedra Guzmán (Espanol) (c.1562-c.1620)
m. Catalina de Villafañe y Alvarado
1.1 Juan de Saavedra y Guzmán (birth estimates range from c.1589/c.1590)
m. María de Monroy y Flores (birth estimates range from c.1590 to c.1633)
1.1.1 Juan de Saavedra (Espanol) (birth estimates range from c.1590 to b.1634 and most dates for death are c.1675)
m. María de Villegas alias de Rodas alias Gonzales (Espanola/mestizo) (b.????)
1.1.1.1 Ana Saavedra (b.1651)
Recently someone asked a question regarding Cresencio Bugarin from Atolinga Zacatecas. I can’t find the comment anymore but here is what I found:
Jose Cresencio Bugarin, born in the “rancho de Laguna”, born 19/April/1880 baptized on 26/April/1880 in Atolinga, Zacatecas. He is the son of Marcial Bugarin and Maria Huerta, paternal grandparents are Julian Bulgarian and Bacilia Hermosillo, maternal grandmother is Juana de Huerta . His civil record names him Cresencio, while the baptismal record on that same date names him José Cresencio Bugarin. Marcial also had children with Maria Weneslao Huerta. The two Marias are not the same person. Marcial Bugarin had children from at least three relationships. The proof that the two Marias are not the same person is that they each have different parents.
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Rick,
Sorry for the late reply. My family are Bugarin from Atolinga. Thank you for the information on my relatives.
I am glad that I could help you Christa. Please let me know if you need more information
Rick A. Ricci
Hello,
Thank you for allowing me to join this group. I am looking forward to learning from everyone here. I've been lurking for awhile now as a visitor reading public posts and am impressed by the knowledge and research of the members here.
Even though I've researched my Texas and American ancestors for a few years I'm a novice with Mexican genealogy. I have many questions and maybe a bit of original research to contribute, also.
I am researching families primarily in Jalisco and Guanajuato that are spread out like a wide curved paintbrush stroke from Aquascalientes southeast across Encarnación de Díaz and Lagos de Moreno through León and ending around Silao.
Surnames include (bold type indicates special interest): Gómez/Gómes, Tavares/Tabares, Pacheco, Carillo, Mena, Beloso/Veloso/Velas, Villegas, López de Lara, Padilla/Padilla de Ávila, Mezquita/Amesquita, Araisa/Araysa/Araiza, Quirós, Días/Díaz, Abrego, Sánches/Sánchez, Almaguer, Yañez, Ojeda, Hernández Ñagas, Saavedra, Mendoza, Santoy
A new member (NA, T) asked if anyone in the group has, or is working on this. Also whether it would be good information to upload to the website (Not my area of research but I'd say YES, please do):
I am working on a transcription of the 1669 padron of the Villa de Santa María de los Lagos, with some genealogical notes on its individuals and family groups with some references to records (marriage, baptism and dispensas). I'm only on page 11 so far so it'll be awhile before I'm finished. Ultimately my intention is to cross-reference it with the 1676 padron. Also, I'm indexing the pueblos and ranchos in the 1808 padron (with brief notes on some ranches like chain of ownership, name changes, etc.).
Joseph Puentes
ps: just in case if you all see any Puente/Puentes/De La Puente in any of those records or Diaz too please bring them to my attention.
Estimados compañeros,
¿Alguno de ustedes tiene información que lleve a la localizaión del origen de Rodrigo de Pinedo, residente en Jerez y marido de Catalina Cid Caldera?
Agradeceré enormemente cualquier información al frespecto.
Un cordial saludo,
hfaizcorbe
Does anyone have any information on Maria Velasco married to Geronimo Orosco in Aguascalientes in early 1600? Thanks for your help.
Is maria also known as angela daughter of tremino velasco? She attends several weddings but the brides surnames are velasco. Are they her sisters or daughters? Also francisco velasco married to nicolasa ruiz esparza who are his parents.?
Aurora Romo
My Great grandmother is Emilia Velasco married to Felix DeAnda in 1867 in Calvillo, Aguas. Following the family line of Velascos I have Francisco de Velasco Arce and Maria Ceron (married Nov 19 1636 in San Antonio, Mixquiahuala, Hidalgo Mexico) as the parents of Francisco Velasco who is married to Nicolasa Ruis-De Esparza in Nov. 19, 1665 in Aguascalientes. My great grandmother Emilia's mother and father were both Velasco's. I have quite a bit of info on both family lines.
Aurora
Aurora Romo
My Great grandmother is Emilia Velasco married to Felix DeAnda in 1867 in Calvillo, Aguas. Following the family line of Velascos I have Francisco de Velasco Arce and Maria Ceron (married Nov 19 1636 in San Antonio, Mixquiahuala, Hidalgo Mexico) as the parents of Francisco Velasco who is married to Nicolasa Ruis-De Esparza in Nov. 19, 1665 in Aguascalientes. My great grandmother Emilia's mother and father were both Velasco's. I have quite a bit of info on both family lines.
Aurora
Thanks for your response. i have researched the velasco esparza line hoping to further my velasco line but i have reached a dead end. I did not find any document pf velasco and esparza ruiz which led me to his parents. Thank you for the info. My research has lead me to maria velasco and geronimo orosco but no connection. maria is at several weddings with brides by the last name velasco but whose daughters were they?
I've been trying to find more information about the family of Bernabe Velasco, ca~ 1685 in Aguascalientes/Calvillo. The children that I have for him are Jose Velasco, Manuel Velasco, Maria Velasco, Josefa Velasco. Josefa and Urbano Contreras had kids sometimes after 1730 near Calvillo.
Their descendents also married Medinas in Calvillo and Aguascalientes in the mid- to late 1700s.
Do you come across any of these names in your research?
Aurora,
This is great. Do you mind sharing me how you made the link and what documents you found to establish this connection. I also descend from the Velasco family of Aguascalientes. I would have never thought they would come from Francisco de Velasco Arce from Hidalgo. Thank you. My mother grew up in Aguascalientes and in Calvillo she descends from Francisco de Velasco about 4 times.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
I found the marriage of Francisco Velasco to Maria Ceron on Family Search
Marriage date Nov 19, 1636 in San Antonio, Mixquiahuala, Hidalgo (BatchM61367-3)
Information on Family search states that Grooms parents are Antonio Velasco and Maria Arce, Brides parents : Juan Ceron and Agusta Perez.
Francisco Velasco Ceron was Baptized January 12, 1638, San Antonio, Mixquiahuala, Hidalgo (Batch 657694) Image 30 –the date is within the presumed date of birth of Francisco Velasco – I could not find anything for Francisco Velasco in Aguascalientes other than his marriage to Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza in 1665.
Antonio Velasco and Maria de Arce are listed as being married Nov 19, 1636 San Antonio, Mixquiahuala, Hidalgo (Batch 613673) I have not been able to find this batch number on line.
Let me know if you can find a better connection/verification of this information
Gracias
Aurora
I am a Velasco from Aguascalientes/Calvillo. I descended from, Bernabé de Velasco y Temiño
Bernabé de Velasco y Zúñiga
J. Nicolás Velasco de Laris
José Velasco Pacheco
Miguel Velasco Esparza
Jose Maria Velasco
Antonio Velasco
José Pablo Velasco
my grandfather ⬇️
Rafael Velasco Delgado
My dad is the youngest son of Rafael Velasco.
Welcome!