Nuestros Ranchos Site

I'm stuck on this couple, Xptoval Saucedo & Feliciana De Udabe who should have been married between 1705-1712 in Teocaltiche. I cant find a marriage for them, it looks like the marriage records for this time frame are missing. Does anyone have any info on the marriage or ancestors of this couple? Here is what I have on them and their eight children;

Christoval Saucedo died 1742 married to Feliciana de Udabe died 1745
--Francisco Saucedo Bap. 1713
--Ysidro Caietano Saucedo Bap.1715, m. Antonia Feliciana Yanez
--Juan Zacarias Saucedo Bap. 1748, m. Margarita Ruiz
--Joseph Antonio Saucedo Bap. 1726, m. Maria de los Dolores Lopez de Nava
--Maria de los Dolores Saucedo m. Juan Rovalcava
--Santiago Saucedo m. Manuela de la Asencion Rovalcava
--Juana Maria Saucedo m. Nicolas Rovalcava
--Maria Antonia San Joseph Saucedo m. Augustin Raphael Lopes

Is it possible that the marriage records for this time frame are somewhere else? Any suggestions at all will help. Thanks.

Ron Robinson
El Paso, Texas

Paul J. Gomez
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 29, 2012, at 4:22 PM, "Joseph Puentes" wrote:

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 6:04 PM
> To: undisclosed-recipients:
> Subject: Somos Primos May 2012 150th Online Issue
>
> Please copy and paste
> http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2012/spmay12/spmay12.htm
>
> Dear Primos, Friends and Readers:
>
> This issue is the 150th online issue of Somos Primos. It has been a challenge and a joy to prepare the monthly publications. So much is happening politically, it is difficult to filter out purely current political incidents and events from heritage and family based issues.
>
> It is very encouraging to see so many of you involved in promoting our history and heritage. Thank you all. It is the accumulation and combination of personal family research, which is revealing the reality of history.
>
> Projects are happening all over the nation. The Pascual shield on the front page is an example. In January the Pascual family of Manila held their 3rd International Family Reunion. Somos Primos will be sharing the marvelous accomplishment of their family outreach as an encouraging example to all of us. Their genealogical research goes back to a Spanish soldier in the 1700s.
>
> Congratulations to them.
> God bless, Mimi
>
> UNITED STATES
> Pray for Our Great Nation: May 3rd, National Day of Prayer May 5th, USNS Cesar Chavez to be Christened and Launched March 31 Proclaimed César Chávez Day Labor Council for Latin American Advancement Unveils Unprecedented Report TAMACC 2012 Women of Distinction Award Recipients Remembering on Mother's Day by Wanda F. Garcia A Tribute to my Mother on Mother’s Day by Irene Mendez Tello Marco Rubio’s Alternative Immigration Bill — by Griselda Nevárez José Martí Awards. FINAL entry deadline: June 30, 2012 About the National Association of Hispanic Publications
> López: The Myth of the ‘One Size-fits-All’ Hispanic by José Antonio López Tidbits and Snippets July 7-10th, NCLR National Conference
>
> WITNESS TO HERITAGE
>
> 1. TEJANO MONUMENT
> The True Meaning of the Tejano Monument, by Cecilia Ballí This is our history: Effort to build Tejano Monument began in South Texas Idea for a Tejano Monument at the state Capitol started at UTPA Tejano monument supporters faced questions Automatically generated mul

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press release

April 18, 2012, 10:14 a.m. EDT

Genealogy Tool Kit Published by Foundation for the National Archives

WASHINGTON, April 18, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Step-by-Step Guide to Family Research at the National Archives

The Foundation for the National Archives announces the publication of the Genealogy Tool Kit: Getting Started on Your Family History at the National Archives, written by National Archives genealogy archives specialist John P. Deeben.

This 160-page step-by-step guide was published by the Foundation and launched in April 2012 to coincide with the celebration of the National Archives' release of the 1940 U.S. Census. The Foundation has long supported research at the National Archives, including its annual support of the Archives' Genealogy Fair, and the development of genealogy products such as this Tool Kit and other archival and research-oriented items.

The Genealogy Tool Kit will help family researchers of all levels of experience to explore how their ancestors interacted with the Federal Government over the course of their lives. Did they enter the United States from a foreign country? Apply to become an American citizen? Enlist in a regiment during a particular war? File for a patent, homestead, or pension?

Through such questions, and many more, the Genealogy Tool Kit helps genealogists to navigate the records at the National Archives, from census and naturalization records to military and federal land grant records. With checklists to track the readers' progress, family trees to fill in as ancestors are discovered, and room for taking notes, the Tool Kit will also serve as researchers' own record of their family history research project.

The Genealogy Tool Kit also includes the personal discovery stories of Archivist of the United States David S. Ferriero, documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, and author and journalist A'Lelia Bundles, as well as inspirational accounts from several other family historians.

The Tool Kit is available for purchase in the Archives Shop in Washington, DC, over the phone at 202-357-5271, or via email at nationalarchivesstore@nara.gov

About the National ArchivesThe National Archives and Records Administration is an independent Federal agency that preserves and shares with the public records that trace the story of our nation, government, and the American people. From the Declaration of Independence to accounts of ordinary Americans, the holdings of the National Archives directly touch the lives of millions of people. The National Archives is a public trust upon which our democracy depends, ensuring access to essential evidence that protects the rights of American citizens, documents the actions of the government, and reveals the evolving national experience

About the Foundation for the National Archives The Foundation for the National Archives is an independent nonprofit that serves as the National Archives' private-sector partner in the creation of and ongoing support of the National Archives Experience, which includes permanent exhibits, educational programs, traveling exhibits, special events and film screenings, and historical/records-related products, publications, and media. The Foundation helps the public understand the importance of the holdings of the National Archives by presenting the depth and diversity of the records through award-winning, interactive educational exhibits and programs. It generates financial and creative support for the National Archives Experience from individuals, foundations, and corporations who share a belief in the importance of innovative civics education.

SOURCE Foundation for the National Archives

Saludos a todos, I was checking out Guadalajara dispensas #film 168130 image 1219 -bottom righthand side the last Tronco with
Bernabe Martin y Gertrudis Pedroza
then vino Maria Martin married to a Bernabe Diaz luego vino
Fabiana Diaz Married to Luis Padilla
I went to Cienga de Mata ,Jalisco matrimonios 1667-1757 IMAGE FRB 01,1730---#IMAGE 248 it states that los padres de Fabiana era Nicolas Diaz y Juana Isasi---but the tronco I saw has me puzzled stating a Bernabe Diaz and Maria Martin are the parents of Fabiana Diaz, any thoughts ?
Thank yiu for your time
Ronnie Reynoso

Primeramente seria bueno preguntarle a la persona que te dio la
informacion y repetirla como se te dio.
Tengo copia del bautismo de Canuta Padilla Gallo y como te dije en esta
acta, Canuta nacio en la Estancia Vieja y fue bautizada en San Juan de
los Lagos y no Jalostotitlan. Ella fue a vivir a La Aguila (Como dicen
los de La Aguila--ya se que lo correcto es El Aguila) que pertenece a
Jalostotitlan. Ella se fue a vivir a este rancho con su marido Jose Ana
Gutierrez por lo que me contaba mi abuelo. Lo demas (matrimonio) lo
saque de Family Search y deberias pregunatarles a los misioneros si
encuentras algun error. No tengo copia de su defuncion, ni de su
matrimonio. Solo se decirte que en la acta de bautismo dice que sus
padres fueron Atanacio Padilla y Maria-Francisca-de-los-Dolores Gallo.
Sus padrinos fueron sus abuelos maternos. Ella nacio January 19, 1821 y
fue bautizada el 21 del mismo mes.
Como haz de saber, el padre muchas veces esta en el bautismo y no
siempre en el matrimonio y mucho menos en la defuncion de su hija. Me
imagino que EL dio su nombre en el bautismo y se puede saber su nombre
correcto encontrando su acta de bautismo que no tengo yo.

Suerte!
Irma
****************************************

Today's Topics:

1. Canuta padilla gallo (gutierrez_ezequiel777@hotmail.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:39:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: gutierrez_ezequiel777@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Canuta padilla gallo
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hola de nuevo y gracias por la informacion que me han ofrecido puntual,
sobre mi bisabuelo benigno gutierez padilla. Ahora mi duda es con
respecto a la madre de el. Canuta Padilla Gallo. Pues segun apuntes de
Irma Lucero Gomes ella nacio en 1821 en rancho el Aguila perteneciente a
san juan de los lagos. lo cual es correcto pero segun estos el Padre era
Atanacio Padilla y Francisca Gallo la madre. Pero cuando caso con Jose
Ana Gutierrez en 1839 en Jalos, Se dice que se llamaba Antonio Padilla y
no Atanacio. Y en su acta de defuncion de Canuta Padilla que es en 1897
en Jalos. Tambien dice que el padre era Antonio Padilla. En fin acaso
tendria el nombre combinado como Antonio Atanacio Padilla. Bueno gracias
por su ayuda en este asunto.

------------------------------

hello,
Can someone please help me with this brickwall in Zapotlan el Grande?

Feliz Antonio Rodriguez (born aprox 1767) married may 4 1788 with Juana Maria Villaseñor
Feliz is son of Joseph Rodriguez and Maria de Jesus De Vargas (or Bargas)
Juana Maria is daughter of Jose Antonio Villaseñor and Maria Lugarda Sanchez

That is as far as I go in this branch, Feliz had several siblings:
Joseph Joaquin,Maria Agustina, Joseph Antonio,Micaella and Joseph Maria Cosme

Thank you for your help!

hola,
Podría alguien ayudarme por favor estoy atorada con esta rama de mi árbol en Zapotlan Jalisco?
Feliz Antonio Rodriguez (nacido aprox 1767) casado el 4 de mayo de 1788 con Juana Maria Villaseñor
Feliz es hijo of Joseph Rodriguez y Maria de Jesus De Vargas (o Bargas)
Juana Maria es hija de Jose Antonio Villaseñor y Maria Lugarda Sanchez

Hasta aqui llego en esta rama, Feliz tuvo varios hermanos:
Joseph Joaquin,Maria Agustina, Joseph Antonio,Micaella y Joseph Maria Cosme

Muchas Gracias por su ayuda!

This is just a heads up to anyone doing research in Nochistlan but specific to film # 226675, Bautismos 1870-1873, it's full of errors, listing the wrong names or surnames at least 20-30 % of the time so make sure to double check off of other records the surnames of the grandparents or even for that matter of the parents. Too many mistakes to list!!
I wish I could write and notify someone to make the corrections but I guess I'm at least 140 years too late.

Un aviso a todos los que hacen estudios en family search, especificamente los archivos del rollo# 226675 de Bautismos de Nochistlan, Zacatecas, 1870-1873. Contiene muchisimos errores en los apellidos de los padres y de los abuelos.
Durante sus investigaciones cuando encuentren una partida de Bautismo, rectifiquen sus datos con otros datos de las mismas familias, de otra manera van a documentar nombres erroneos.

Quisiera dar aviso a los escribanos de estos documentos pero creo que es bastante tarde, han pasado mas de 140 años.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

Hola a todos, especialmente a los interesados en esta familia que tuvo un tema de foro girando en torno a ella hace pocas semanas en este sitio.

Hoy por la mañana estaba revisando el libro de "Esbozos Históricos de Tecolotlán" y resulta que Gabriel Agraz menciona que cuando Antonia Ramírez de Prado casa con Sebastián Pérez de Guzmán, ella declara ser originaria del Real del Parral de la Vizcaya y vecina de Tecolotlán desde su infancia. Este hecho nos confirma que el Antonio Ramírez de Prado que estaba casado con Micaela García Montero (García de Rivas) que bautiza una hija en 1662 en Parral es la misma pareja que la de Aguascalientes y Jalisco. Daniel Méndez de Torres también estaba de acuerdo con este punto y creo entonces que ya tenemos asegurada muy bien la zona que queremos estudiar por lo menos en esta generación que no es ni Jalisco, ni Michoacán ni Aguascalientes.

Estuve buscando a personas con los mismos apellidos por las mismas fechas en Parral, Chihuahua, esto fue lo que encontré espero sea útil. Andrés Ramírez del Prado, originario de Santa Fe, Nuevo Mexico estuvo casado con Petrona de Gamboa por el año de 1661 en que tienen a un hijo llamado Antonio que después contraería nupcias con Luisa de Tapia en 1685 en Paso del Norte. Por las fechas, me surge la idea de que nuestro antepasado Antonio Ramírez de Prado debió haber sido hermano o primo de Andrés. Además como ya había mencionado antes, hubo otra pareja del mismo apellido, pero su casta es coyote y dice ser originario de Sayula, lo cual nos traería de regreso a Jalisco.

Por otro lado, Micaela utiliza el apellido García de Rivas pero también el de García Montero. No he podido hasta ahora localizar a García Montero's en la zona pero sí tengo datos de García de Rivas. Se supone que el primer García de Rivas en pasar al Norte del Virreinato fue Miguel García de la Riva allá por 1693 y era marido de Micaela de Velasco con quien casó en 1671 en la Ciudad de México, de dónde eran originarios. Por lo que he visto, el origen de la familia García de la Riva lo fue Diego García de la Riva que estuvo casado con María de Estrada, ellos fueron padres de por lo menos tres hijos, Miguel (ya mencionado), Juan y Brígida. Si Micaela fuese García de Rivas y no García Montero, yo pensaría que debería de ser hermana de los tres hermanos ya citados.

Los invito a que continuemos el estudio de esta familia, poco a poco van surgiendo más y más datos, si lo seguimos haciendo en equipo será más rápido.

Gracias de antemano.

Enrique Agraz

As many of you have discovered, there were many of our relatives that
inter-married, sometimes even first cousins! What did these relatives have to
do to get a Catholic dispensa so they had the church's blessing?

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

So i am sort of having like a brick wall im stuck with Ambrosio De Armas And Quiteria De Velasco.I know the had around 5 5 kids and they were from Nochistlan.If anybody can help me im having such a hard time.

And is anyone related to this family and new where this family came from it would be nice to know?

Father was Miguel Reyes mother Espridiona Gomez had a twin Germana Reyes. Born in Encarnacion de Diaz Jalisco Mexico . Father widowed and later married Dominga Prado.

Hello all,
As some of you may know, I will be doing a presentation on the Guadalajara Dispensas project at the upcoming 3rd Annual Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in Sacramento. http://www.nuevagalicia.net/

As I prepare the material, I'd like to hear from those NR members who will be in attendance. I'd like to know what YOU want to know about the Dispensas and the current extraction project at www.guadalajaradispensas.com

My goal is to give a general introduction on the Dispensas; what they are and how to access them, and plan to break down a dispensa document bit-by-bit to show what key data can be extracted from it.

I'd like to "open the floor" right now (so to speak) and take questions/comments from my peers here because there may be other concerns that I'm not thinking of at this time and I think we will all benefit from your input. I may be looking at a square, but it's actually an octagon!

Feel free to post your response here at NR. Disclaimer: I am open to suggestions but, due to time constraints, make no promises to incorporate them in the talk. For those of you not attending the NGGS conference, I will have a summary of my presentation available at my blog after the conference.

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com

Several of Nuestros Ranchos members have shown interest on DNA testing. I learned that Familytreedna has announced a two day sale on new DNA tests and upgrades (Friday 20th and Saturday 21st). I include a link where you can place any orders and the original report. VN

http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA

Well if you haven’t heard tomorrow it’s again DNA Day and Family Tree DNA felt that was good enough for us to have a short two day sale.

Nearly the entire offering will be on sale these two days, including upgrades that were not on last year's sale. The sale will begin at 6PM April 19th and will conclude at 11:59PM on Saturday the 21st (Central time, U.S.)

Here are the details, and the prices will be automatically adjusted at our web site and therefore there will be no need for a coupon:

New Kits

Y-DNA 12 regular: $99 sale: $59
mtDNA regular: $99 sale: $59

Y-DNA 37 regular:$149 sale: $129
Y-DNA 67 regular:$238 sale: $199
Family Finder regular:$289 sale: $199
mtFullSequence (FGS) regular:$299 sale: $249

Y-DNA 12 + mtDNA regular: $179 sale: $118
FF + Y-DNA 12 regular: $339 sale: $258
FF + mtDNA regular: $339 sale: $258
FF+ Y-37 regular: $438 sale: $328
FF + mtPlus regular: $438 sale: $328
Comprehensive (FF + FMS + Y-67) regular: $797 sale: $657

Upgrades

Y-DNA 12 regular:$89 sale: $59
mtDNA add-on regular:$89 sale: $59
Y-DNA 12-37 Marker regular: $99 sale: $69
Y-DNA 37-67 Marker regular: $99 sale: $79
Y-DNA 12-67 Marker regular: $199 sale: $148
mtFullSequence upgrade (HVR1 to Mega) regular: $269 sale: $199
mtFullSequence upgrade (HVR2 to Mega) regular $269 sale: $199
mtFullSequence add-on regular $289 sale: $219
Family Finder regular $289 sale: $199

You are welcome to blog about this, report this your group members, or send an email to your distribution list, but when it’s over, it’s over.

Linda,

Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings. I will check out the Cordero and Cabrera listings in hopes that my Corberas may be linked with these possible spelling variations...

I will continue to view your site for other surnames that appear in my family history search.

Once again thank you.. you have done a wonderful job in sharing your findings...

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

Hola Primo Miggy,

Benigno Gutierrez se caso dos veces. Su primera esposa fue Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla y su segunda (mi bisabuela) fue Maria-Ysabel Gutierrez Padilla. Dime si tienes mas preguntas.

Saludos, Irma

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 08:54:41 -0700
From: Miggy GUTIERREZ
To: research
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] benigno gutierrez padilla
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Benigno, perdon quie era la esposa de Benigno?

Miguel Gutierrez

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gutierrez_ezequiel777@hotmail.com
> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:26:26 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] benigno gutierrez padilla
>
> Hola Adrian gusto en saluarte, y te confirmo que mi bisabuelo benigno gutierrez y Norberto Gutierrez si fueron hermanos, y como bien tu dices Norberto caso con Librada Gutierrez y aunque tal vez ya tienes esta informacion te la doy por si acaso no fuera asi. Norberto es de el 7 de junio de 1865 y caso con Librada el dia 12 de febrero de 1890 en jalos. ella era hija de Evaristo Gutierrez y de Maria Melquiades Gonzales. Y como informacion complementaria te platico que esta Maria Melquiades Gonzales era hermana de mi bisdabuelo Juan Gonzales por el lado materno de mi papa. saludos y con gusto compartiere lo que poseo de informacion Adrian cuando tu gustes saludos

So i found the parents of Victoriano Ruiz and Maria Ysabel Albares but there is a problem i need help on figuring out Maria Ysabel mothers first name and last name im guesing her first name is Maria help?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15092-7854-28?cc=1410092&wc=…
its on the second page the name of the individual getting baptised is Sebastiana

Alguein me podria orientar como hacer cambios en mi árbol? Me concontré con un error y debo corregirlo.

Hi, I would like to know what the difference was between entierros "humildes" and entierros "de limosna". I have also seen in records, that people actually gave money to the church (fabrica de ? pesos) so that the corpse could stay buried for a couple of years. I have also seen that in the burial records of San Martin Hidalgo of the 1820s, next to the corpse's race (e.g. español, yndio, mulato) the priest would write initials, most notably P. next to yndios, mulatos, and some españoles, and A. or Ad. to españoles. Has anybody encountered these initials before in burial records?

V. Quintero Castro

Hola a todos.

Aguascalientes, Ags. Febrero 20 de 1695. Exp. 73 .- Dispensa de tercer con cuarto grado de consanguinidad.- Francisco Nuñez, castizo de 30 años de edad vecino y natural de Villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legitimo de Salvador Nuñez y de Maria Vasquez: con Rosa Maria de Ayala, española de 22 años de edad, natural y vecina de esta villa, hija legitima de Salvador de Villalobos y de Doña Angela de Ayala. Declaracion del pretenso: Que Maria Vásquez, mi madre y la madre de Salvador Villalobos, padre de la pretensa, fueron primas hermanas. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 9 de marzo de 1695. 19 fojas.

--- On Sun, 4/22/12, Celestino Villalobos wrote:

> From: Celestino Villalobos
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (6110) Jaime Holcombe 20 Feb 1695
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Cc: "Armando Antuñano"
> Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 3:55 PM

> -

Hola a Todos.

Iv'e been trying to locate an informacion matrimonial in the year 1762 from Nochistlan but i can't find it no where.Can someone please help?

Lamobucs@hotmail.com

Daniel Francisco Briones

We are also researching the name "Briones" - Altagracia Briones (B: abt.
1895, D: 1982).
Married Jose Antonio Escobedo.
Both probably from the Jalisco area.
We found information on several Altagracia Escobedos, but not the right
persons.
We are running into a dead end.
I would be interested in knowing anything you have in the Briones family
tree.
Thanks,
Gary (miller04@satx.rr.com)

Gary & Sarah Miller
miller04@satx.rr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 5:07 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: General Digest, Vol 75, Issue 11

Send General mailing list submissions to
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DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

1. Hola! (Lamobucs@hotmail.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lamobucs@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hola!
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Daniel Francisco Briones

Queria saber si podia compar algunos libros en el coleccion que necesito
pero no todos?

------------------------------

Im pretty much stuck on this the Lomelin individual his name is Sebastian Lomelin he married Josefa Hurtado but i do not have their marriage record i descend from the offspring Maria Margarita Lomelin who married Rafael Yanez in 1762 in Nochistlan and i do have the record.Can someone please help me find Sebastian Lomelin parents?

Maria Margarita Lomelin And Rafael Yanez Marriage record

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15184-37453-25?cc=1410092&wc…

Saludos amigos, he encontrado (tal parece) el inicio de mi árbol genealógico, pero me dice que Joseph Hurtado nacido entre los años 1655 y 1663 en el puesto de la Barrera, jurisdicción del rincón de León y avecinado en la feligresía de Lagos o en Nostanejo cerca de Jacona en las inmediaciones de Unión de San Antonio y radicado en El carrizo de los Hurtado Municipio de Lagos de Moreno y casado con Micaela De Anda Altamirano el 4 de marzo de 1690.

¿Alguien sabe con exactitud la fecha de nacimiento de Joseph Hurtado y el nombre de sus ascendentes?

saludos

profr. Raúl Hurtado Pérez

I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".

Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.

When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.

Is this amount a donation, or is this what it cost to be buried by the Church.

George Fulton