Presentación

Hi everyone!
Mi name is Lucia and I'm doing research about mi roots at los altos de Jalisco, specially about Camarena, Santos, Delgado and Correa.

I'm starting with Camarena that is the one I've more advance in.
The very last information I have is about Manuel de Camarena son of Julián de Camarena and Susana de Guzman de Camarena, ( I have no date of marriage or location or ancetor's of them, or date of birth)

Manuel Ramón de Camarena who married first with Ana (or Soledad?) Corcuera and with Virginia García (2nd marriage). They lived at Arandas Jalisco about 1870, where all of their children were born - at least 3 of them at "San José de La Teja" rancho. I also know that Manuel de Camarena had other Ranchos likes: "Ibarrilla" "Las pilas" "Hacienda de Guadalupe" "El posito" "El Vallado" "Valparaiso" "Jocoyote" "El potrerito" "Tres cruces", "La mesita", "La laguna" and some others in Arandas and La piedad, Michoacán.

If theres anyone ho should share information about or interchange I have some few information about that maybe should help us (all interesested about) to complete some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle

If theres anything I could hel you about, I'll be right here. Thank's a lot!!!

Lucía

Books on the history of Tepatitlan \ San Jose de Bazarte

I've be following the thread in regards to the books dealing Nuevo Galicia with interest. I was wondering if anyone knows of any books dealing specifically with the history of Tepatitlan \ Los Altos or San Jose de Bazarte. If not, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can find out more on the historical background of these places ? especially "La Villa"....Thanks in advance , Robert Gonzalez ~

IGI marriage records

Just a simple question.

I understand that the present method probably is quicker and saves time for the original document-recorder person in 99% of the time; but WHY does that person (who creates these documents) NOT bother to include the names of the parents of the newlyweds ???? If the parent's names are not on the record or illegible, that can be noted on the IGI just as easily.

Aren't we ALL grateful when we do find an IGI with that information? Think of the countless MILLIONS of wasted hours saved for the researcher/ descendants.

The information is ALREADY there in 99% of the time.

Why does the person who needs this vital information about their ancestors have to send for that SAME microfilm and spend countless hours of of DUPLICATE research time in doing this?

Just a thought.

Connections & Family Search Pilot Website

Hi, Everyone:

I am sorry I do not contribute very often. While I have made some very
important and significant connections with those with whom I share a common
ancestor (thanks to this forum), my area of research and family is not
shared by the more active members of this group. So, my apologies for not
taking part in discussions, etc. Add to this the fact that our computer is
on again and off again quite often, so I tend to get way behind in what is
being discussed in this forum. I have also taken on some new
responsibilities over the past several months that have severely curtailed
my research all around. So.... I am very lucky to have the time that I do
have to go through a little bit of a microfilm, check out Family Search, or
to send a message to this group now and then: Just to let you know I'm still
here, still doing my research and wish you all the best of luck in your
searching!

By the way, I just discovered the Aguascalientes church records on the
family search pilot website. I was going to order a microfilm that I
learned was on this site, so I saved 5.95 when I found the exact record I
was looking for, which cost me only 10 cents to simply print it out! How
easy can that be? And, Sergio, whom I work with on our shared family
history, emailed me the document from that site, so I didn't even have to
put it on my flashdrive or figure out how to send it to him! Isn't that
great?

Well, thank-you and I hope you are all doing well in your research and in
all areas of your lives!
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Familia Domínguez Cornejo o de la Torre Cornejo.

Hola compañeros y amigos, me encuentro con un problema al investigar a José Domínguez y María Josefa Cornejo que debieron casar aprox. en 1776 en San Miguel el Alto o Jalostotitlán, pero no encuentro datos mas atrás sobre ellos.

A veces aparecen sus hijos y descendientes como Domínguez y en ocasiones como de la Torre. También es curioso, porque a veces aparecen como mestizos y otras como español.

Yo desciendo de un hijo de ésta pareja, de nombre José Rafael Tiburcio de Guadalupe Domínguez Cornejo, que casó con Felipa de Jesús Rodríguez Orozco en 1812 en Tepatitlán. Ella es descendiente de la familia Rodríguez de Híjar.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Los Castellanos de Tepatitlán y Ocotlán.

Alguien tiene información de Ana María Castellanos, mujer de Anastasio Arias Maldonado, que debió nacer aprox. en 1720 en Tepatitlán u Ocotlán. Ellos tuvieron una hijo llamado Antonio Matías Arias Maldonado que casó con María Lugarda Gutiérrez Galindo.

También quiero saber si tienen datos de Antonia Castellanos, mujer de Manuel Aceves. Ella debió nacer aprox. en 1725 en Ocotlán o Tepatitlán. Padres de José Lázaro Aceves Castellanos quien casó en Tepatitlán con María Margarita Petronila Arias Maldonado.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Martinez, Aguilar, Macias, D'avila 1800+

I am looking for any info on these names: Martinez, Aguilar, Macias and D'avila from the 1800 + The areas are Ojuelos, Jalisco, Pinos, Zacatecas, and Aguascaliente.

Thank you.

Estoy buscando cual quer informacion sobre estos nombres: Martinez, Aguilar, Macias y D'avila de 1800+.
Las zonas son Ojuelos, Jalisco, Pinos, Zacatecas, y Aguascaliente.

Gracias.

Lopez de Lizardi

I recently advanced my research considerably by going to the Salt Lake City
Library. I added Juan Delgado m. 4 Mar 1669 to Margarita Lopez de Lizardi
at the Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes to my database.
Unfortunately, the marriage record does not name the parents of either the
bride or the groom. I searched for the Informacion Matrimonial for this
couple, but it is missing. I've gone through the images on
pilot.familysearch twice (I know the records are out of order) and I could
not find it. Does anyone have any info on this couple? I found all the
baptismal records for 12 of their children and noticed that the padrinos
were often from the Ruiz Esparza, Tiscareño, Gabai, and Romo de Vivar
families. I am wondering how they may be connected to these families.
Another question I have is the Lopez de Lizardi surname sounds like it may
be the same as Lopez de Elizalde. Does anyone know if this is the same
surname? Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.

Maria Cortez
Sacramento, CA

Yanez del Monte

I found a mistake in my tree and I was hoping that someone could correct it.

Juan Yanez del Monte and Lorenzo Yanez del Monte are half brothers because they have the same father but different mothers. This is very clearly stated that they had different mothers. My problem is that I do not know which of the two is the son of Geronima Benavides. I have both of them listed. which one should not be there?
I know how I originally made the mistake. A dispensa that I originally used called them brothers but did not specify that they had different mothers.

Bernardina Ornelas y Mendoza.

Alguien tiene información de Juan de León y Bernardina de Ornelas y Mendoza, padres de mi ancestro Felipe de León, quienes debieron nacer en Lagos de Moreno o Teocaltiche. Solo encuentro una hija suya aparte de mi ancestro Felipe en Teocaltiche bautizada en 1712.

Felipe casó en Tepatitlán con María de San Juan Ledezma el 23 de mayo de 1731.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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genealogy errors

Ricci

Is this Villalpando family related to Thomas de Villalpando who married (1)
Maria de Vargas, 1677 and (2) Maria de Jaen (de Sotelo), 1690, in
Aguascalientes?

George Fulton

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Yanez del Monte and Perestoriello

I cannot answer for that claim of Alonso Perestorello since I have questioned it from the beginning. They seemed to get started on that route with the mistake that it is two last names written as Peres Torello. It may have orginated that way many years before but I doubt it. The Perstorello family name was originally Pallestrelli in Genoa.

The perestorello family were like the mendozas in that they intermarried over and over again among cousins. In this case it was the perestorello rodriguez and ferriera families intermarrying repeatedly.

You see this among my side of the gutierrez family. My greatgrandfather Emeterio Romo Gutierrez's parents were 2nd cousins and 3rd cousins. The gutierrez romo jimenez gonzalez family of that part of jalos intermarried repeatedly. That is why you see those names repeatedly inSanto toribio's family. Kind of like the martin and barba family, and more recently the alvarez and casillas families.

It continued with my tio Lupe Romo who married maria luisa Romo, the sister of Jorge romo barba the author of a recent history and genealogy book of the Valle de Gpe. . Lupe and Maria Luisa (Guicha) are 2nd cousins. Their children are romo romo or as I call them romo quadrado. romo squared. i thought i would add that since today is square root day, 3/3/09 and I am a math teacher. I really did call them that as a teenager and they took it as an offense though it was said in jest. the comment still comes up in family gatherings.

I remember that I heard as a kid that someone was getting married and an aunt from the valle de Gpe. responded " how dare she marry that man, he is not even family" of course she said this in spanish.

The perestorello family had a jewish background and they tended to marry among those with the same background or at least those that were more tolerant of interculture marriage. This tolerance usually came because you knew that somewhere in your own recent history there is a interculture marriage.

The intolerance of intercultural marriage seems to build up the farther away it is in a persons history or ancestry.

as to the mendoza family chart there is an extensive one, though not anywhere complete (many missing daughters that I have had to add) in that SHARR journal where I originally found this information.

________________________________

From: Daniel M?ndez del Camino [general@nuestrosranchos.org
]
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 9:06 PM
To: Ricci, Richard
Subject: Yanez del Monte and Perestoriello

Hi Richard, I was wondering do you have any more info genealogy wise on Íñigo Mendoza and María Fuentes? They sound like part of "La Casa del Infantado". BTH Im starting to lean towards your research on ALonso Pérez. The only thing I wonder is how did don Mariano find and said his parents were. His mother's name according to him is María di or de Toriello which mght be related to the Perestoriello family. I AM LOST! -Daniel Camino

________________________________

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La Gutierrada

I've heard of La Gutierrada, and wonder if it's the same one that was
held about 4 years ago in Jalos? I knew of a couple that attended. The
husband is also a descendant of Jose Sotero & Ma de Jesus Romo--they are
his 2nd G Grandparents, but I recall that it was held in Jalos that
time. Does the locale change? Since you say it's the 2nd, then their's
must have been a smaller Gtz reunion, but they referred to it in the
same manner. My dad's Gonzalada also has a reunion in Ags. during the
Summer months.
Ricci, you must also be a relative of mine, however more distant than
you are to Miggy? Jose Sotero was brother to my G Grandmother, Tomasa
Gtz. Santo Toribio, was my father's 3rd cousin--distant too.
Irma Gomez Gtz

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:23:21 -0800
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the
first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero
Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near
Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they
are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2,
2009 .

------------------------------

Hispanic Research Series on Roots Television

Hi everyone,

I hadn't checked the Roots TV site in a while, and noticed that they had added some new videos. Maybe they will be informative for some of you. This is the link:

http://www.rootstelevision.com/program_guide.php

type in - Hispanic genealogy in the SEARCH box

The 4 videos are: 1) Buscando Ancestors Mexicanos in el internet; 2) Hispanic Research Series at the FHL; 3) Mexico: Genealogical Research (George & Peggy Ryskamp); 4) Spanish Parish Records

Natalie

Alvaro Carrillo

Hello everybody,

I am looking for the parents of Alvaro Carrilo from Teocaltiche , Jalisco he married Maria Alvarez de Sandi , daughter of Capitan Lorenzo Alvarez and Agustina de Viera ( velados ) March 4, 1585 in Lagos de Moreno , Jalisco .

Any and all info will be greatly appreciated .

Welester G. Alvarado and Arq. Jose Francisco Garza Carrillo

ARAIZA y MEDINA (Bill Figueroa and RickRicci)

Isassi, Yssasi, Ysasi, Isassi or Isasi, is a Basque name. Not italian.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Ricci"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:37:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ARAIZA y MEDINA (Bill Figueroa and RickRicci)

I noticed the same thing. as to the surname is was spelled many ways and was italian. Isassi is the most common spelling, or at least the one Jaime holcombe used. He did not have these girls, and elvira listed as children of Nicolas martin del campo and sebastiana Isassi but the records have prven that for elvira and antonia. I still need to check out maria married to antonio Vasquez zermeno but when I saw that I speculated that she could be antonias sister. I share the same thoughts as you do regarding the information we find even in published material that is why i check everything. If Jaime Holcombe, Mariano gonzlez Leal and my tio abuelo Doctor Rito Romo Franco can make mistakes as detail oriented as they are, then we all can and will make mistakes. I have made many and that is why I work so dilligently at correcting mistakes, mine and others. As you have seen I am not the greatest typist and make errors as I type away. I don't bother to correct e-mails but I triple check how I input data. my poor typing has actuallly make some great finds because the people that input data many times misread or mistyped the information when they would input it. Some of my biggest finds have been because I learned to deliberately type in info as if I was misreading or carelessly typing. I learned this when I took someone to the library about 13 years ago and theyknocked into the keyboard and out popped out the information on someone I had been looking hard for for at least 6 months. If they hadn't slapped at the keyboard out of frustration I may have never found that info. It was the last piece of the puzzle in my wives casillas family. The inputter had misread the information. Then I used that as a strategy. That is how I made my breakthrough in my romo line. I assumed that someone had misread the information and went over where I believed they may have made a mistake. I was right. That was when I made my family's connection to Santo Toribio Thanks Bill for all your help ________________________________ From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Bill Figueroa Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 10:06 AM To: research@nuestrosranchos.org Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ARAIZA y MEDINA (Bill Figueroa and RickRicci) Rick, Have you seen the actual marriage record? Family Search also lists the marriage of Maria de Yzasi (not Antonia) who married Antonio Vazquez de Zermeño (Sermeño) on 25 May 1681. The strange thing is that they're listed for the SAME DATE AND PLACE (Batch M604181 Source Call 0221512). Was it a double marriage? Were Maria and Antonia sisters or was it a mistake made by the submitter? Apparently, both IGI records originated from the same submitter. To find these records, search for Maria de YZASI, then separately for Antonia de YSAZI. Notice that the surnames are spelled differently. The parents of the groom and bride are provided. I am wary of any information found on Family Search until it is verified against the actual record. I find errors every day. The same goes for some of the information published in books, even those published by distinguished genealogists and historians. Unless, of course, it is backed up with the proper sources. Family Search is a good tool, but should not be trusted blindly. The fact that the same LDS Film No. 221512 is given for both IGI records makes me believe that it was a double marriage for Maria and Antonia. Maybe someone in the group can look up the record. Bill Figueroa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricci, Richard" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ARAIZA y MEDINA (Bill Figueroa and RickRicci) Joseph de Aguilar Solorzano was married to Maria Antonia Ysazi (Isassi) Martin del Campo on 25 May 1681 Sta Ma. de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco Mexico Maria Antonia Isassi is the daughter of Nicolas Martin del campo and Sebastiana Isassi. Joseph Aguilar Solorzano is the son of Juan de Aguilar Solorzano and Luisa de Araiza y Medina according to the marriage notes. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List To post, send email to: research(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Steve Apodaca and Francisco Sevilla....... news

Thank you for the information about Mr. Mariano´s Book. Wish the best for him and a good recovering since the surgery.

Steve y Francisco:

Les mandio un caluroso saludo desde Vallarta y les comento lo siguiente.... En estos dias he estado revisando todas las paginas del Censo de Poblacion de Mexico de 1930, especificamente de Santa Catarina, y me encontre ahi unos Sevilla y unos Apodaca. Fue inevitable recordarlos a ustedes claro, y además, vi unos de apellido MORGUITA. No recuerdo quien de los dos estaba buscando a esta familia (creo que Francisco si mal no recuerdo) y segun yo guarde las paginas para mandarselas a ustedes. pero cuando cerre el programa trate de ver los archivos que guarde con esa informacion y resulto que no son compatibles. Tengo que buscar la manera de poderselos mandar y que los vean si estan interesados. Solo necesito saber si les interesa tenerlos o si ya los vieron o ya los tienen.

Ahi mismo, en el censo, estuve sacando MUCHOS de mis antepasados por los Toscano principalemente. Ya termine de revisar los documentos de Santa Catarina y voy a comenzar en estos dias a ver los de Zacoalco (son 208 paginas) de los cuales sacaré miles de datos lo mas seguro. Si necesitan o les puedo ayudar en algo solo diganmelo por favor.

Estamos en contacto, por favor no se pierdan y escriban pronto.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA

Ser de Luz!!!

> From: announce-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Announce Digest, Vol 36, Issue 2
> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:00:35 -0800
>
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> Nuestros Ranchos Announce Mailing List
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Mariano Gonzales-Leal's new books (Rose Hardy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:50:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rose Hardy
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mariano Gonzales-Leal's new books
> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Mariano is still working on the next 7 volumes....about 1000 pages per book according to historian Nicolas Anda de Sanchez. Mariano had surgery a few weeks ago and is aiming for a book release around May or June of this year. My cousin is good friends with Nicolas, and Nicolas had spoken with Mariano.
>
> I'll keep you posted as we are all very anxious about the new books.
>
> Rose Hardy
> Fresno, CA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

Reunions 2009 -

Hola todos (as)

Busco archivos parroquiales o registros civiles de Mexticacan Jal. de 1925 a 1935 alguien tiene o sabe donde encontrarlos, estoy en Monterrey y no tengo viaje a mexticacan hasta diciembre, gracias de antemano.
Saludos cordiales

Antonio Santillan
santillan59@hotmail.com

> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:52:54 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from. When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>

Prefixes

Good Evening Group: Could someone please explain the 19th Century or "modern" criteria as to how one acquired, maintained, or lost the "Don" and/or "Dona" prefix? Thanks so much, Alice BB

--- rricci@lausd.net wrote:

From: "Ricci, Richard"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:30:49 -0800

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Marge Vallazza
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 12:53 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons

That same sort of stuff is on the Sagrada Mitra book because it's in
the official record, so no big deal in those cases. In those days,
lots of people couldn't read so they didn't have the privelege of
trumpeting all the juicy gossip everywhere. We call one person in
this area around here "Channel 5" because like the tv station, she's
the first in "Breaking News." And I think it would be a great idea to
write the documented stories on NR, if Josef permits. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Daniel M?ndez del Camino wrote:

Hi Alicia and Richard! I agree with Alicia, I have found out so many
'interesting stories' (scandals, hatred, love stories, murders,
betrayals) Maybe I can post some on Ranchos one day. MY goodness it
sounds like novela on "el catorce." But really if its something really
bad, I still want to know its part of who you are and your family
history. Like one would be my cuarto bisabuelo don Estevan López had
an affair with a younger women Gorgonia de Mendoza and had two kids.
Apparently only some certain confidants he had knew about it, one was
his son-in-law's two brothers Viviano and Manuel del Camino. And some
others. his wife didnot find out until these two kids were about 12 or
so. By then he Estevan had long been dead when his two hijos naturales
were 6 and 7. Lets say Estevan wasnt the faithfulest man on the
hacienda! On there records baptisms ( they have the last name López
but "de padre no conocido" y Gorgonia de Mendoza" Everyone knew he was
the father except his wife and his other family. THe list goes on of
escándolos. Thought I just share this part of Alteño history in my
family. -Daniel

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Mariano Gonzales-Leal's new books

Mariano is still working on the next 7 volumes....about 1000 pages per book according to historian Nicolas Anda de Sanchez. Mariano had surgery a few weeks ago and is aiming for a book release around May or June of this year. My cousin is good friends with Nicolas, and Nicolas had spoken with Mariano.

I'll keep you posted as we are all very anxious about the new books.

Rose Hardy
Fresno, CA

Libro "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia Vol. III "

Alguien en el grupo sabe si ya salió la última publicación del libro del Sr. Mariano Gonzalez Leal Vol. III ? O si hay alguna fecha para tal venta?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone in the group know if there is a publication of the Mariano´s Leal book Vol. III or if there is a date for the sale?

Gracias por cualquier informacion/ Thanks for any info.

Alessandro Vitela

Viuda and Soltera

Can the terms "viuda" (widow) and "soltera" (spinster, or single woman) be used interchanged? That is, could "soltera" describe a women who is actually a widow?

I have a 1739 death record from Aguascalientes for Josepha Rodrigues where "soltera" is used. Her parents are named, but there is no other information. I also have what may be her husband's (Salvador Ponse) death record from 1738, where it states that he is married to Josepha Rodrigues.

George Fulton