Civil Censuses in Mexico

Thanks so much for the information, Arturo. This affirms the need to search maternal names just as carefully. I believ I've read that it wasn't unheard of for a husband to take his wife's maiden surname, if she was the sole heir to land or fortune. Alice Blake

--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:

From: arturoramos
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Civil Censuses in Mexico
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 07:33:31 -0700 (PDT)

Alice:

I think that beginning with the Porfirian government and certainly after the Mexican Revolution, the state developed its own civil registries and census functions and attempted to usurp these functions all together from the Church.

I would imagine that a census from 1930 by the state would be one of the first ones for that area. I know that in Totatiche, the post-Revolutionary government did a land census around 1920 that is quite good. I found out through that that the little land owned by my father's family in Mexico actually was his grandmother's, which she had inherited from her father.

That then led to me to research inheritance patterns and as it turns out, just like surnames, land did not transfer down the male side only... Lots of powerful women inheriting land, especially in the earlier days of the colony.

ARCHIVO HISTÓRICO DE AGUASCALIENTES

Dear Alice:
EL ARCHIVO HISTÓRICO DE AGUASCALIENTES concentra documentación e información
desde el año de 1592 hasta 1930, y está dividido en fondos, series y
secciones. Aproximadamente un 70% se encuentra clasificado, todo está
inventariado.
Sus fondos más importantes son: 1) PROTOCOLOS NOTARIALES (1592-1925),
tratando asuntos como testamentarías, sucesiones, escrituraciones de
propiedad, contratos civiles y privados, fundaciones de pueblos indígenas y
padrones de población.- 2) Ramo Judicial, asuntos civiles y penales (a
partir del año de 1654); 3) COFRADÍAS (1790-1857); 4) ARCHIVOS DE
PARROQUIAS DEL ESTADO, PRINCIPALMENTE LIBROS DE REGISTROS SACRAMENTALES. El
archivo cuenta, además con una HEMEROTECA HISTÓRICA (1842 - a la fecha) y
una colección de 3700 fotografías (1850-1940). Domicilio: Juan de Montoro,
215. Colonia Centro. CP 20000. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes. Teléfono
014409153946
Felipe Reyes Romo

_________________________________________________________________
Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger
http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/

Para Eddy, Discrepancia de Datos.

Hola a todos en el Sub-grupo Centro:

Hola Eddy, vi lo que mandaste de tu genealogia, y
yo tengo algo que discrepa con tu investigacion, y no
se si alguien pueda ayudarnos a discernir sobre que
dato es el correcto, tu escribiste lo siguiente:

IV.- Don Cristóbal Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Vázquez de Lara, nacido en 1695.
Fue sepultado el 10 de octubre de 1727. Casó en Jalostotitlán el 3 de
febrero de 1721 con doña Antonia Micaela Maciel-Blancarte y Galván de Rojas,
nacida en Ayo el Chico en 1699; hija de don Juan Maciel-Blancarte y de doña
Marcela Galván de Rojas. Hijo:

V.- Don Joseph Agatón Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Maciel. Casó en Jalostotitlán
el 26 de enero de 1742 con doña María Antonia Muñoz de Nava y Martín del
Campo, hija de don Joseph Manuel Muñoz de Nava y de doña María de San Juan
Martín del Campo.

---------------------------------------

Y resulta ser que yo den mis investigaciones tengo
que Don Joseph Agaton Gutiérrez de Mendoza es hijo de
Don Mateo Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Pedroza y de Doña
Teresa de Jesus Maciel Galvan de Rojas, y que como tu
escribes se caso con Ma. Antonia Muñoz de Nava y
Martin del Campo el 26-Ene-1742, hija como tu dices
de Joseph Manuel Muñoz de Nava y Juana Maria Martin
del Campo.

Alli esta la discrepancia, de quien es hijo realmente
Don Joseph Agaton Gutierrez de Mendoza:

a) De Don Mateo Gutierrrez de Mendoza y Pedroza y
Doña Teresa de Jesus Maciel Galvan de Rojas.

b) De Don Cristobal Gutiérrez de Mendoza Maciel y
Antonia Micaela Maciel Galvan de Rojas.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

Los Oñate en Aguascalientes

Miembros de la familia Oñate vivieron en Aguascalientes. Doña María de Oñate
viuda de Andrés López de la Cerda, vendió en en el año de 1743 a Diego de
Medina y Lomas, una mulata esclava llamada Nicolasa de la O. El texto
riginal del contrato de compra-venta dice: " la esclava es de color cocho,
buena gracia y de 40 años de edad, en un precio y cuantía de 240 pesos de
oro común". La fuente documental se puede consultar en el Archivo
Histrórico de Aguascalientes. Fondo de Protocolos Notariales. Siglo XVIII:
Caja 15, Expediente 3 y Caja 14 , Expediente 5.
Felipe Reyes Romo

_________________________________________________________________
Prodigy/MSN Search. Todo lo que buscas ahora más rapido
http://search.t1msn.com.mx/

Asientos, Aguascalientes Feb 1839 Church Census listing Haciendas and Ranchos

Hello Rose, Very interesting. I was wondering if these were working haciendas/ranchos in 1839, or pueblitos named for the former haciendas; and if the founders or owners were named. Thanks, Alice Blake

--- rosehardy@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Rose Hardy
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Asientos, Aguascalientes Feb 1839 Church Census listing Haciendas and Ranchos
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:25:46 -0700 (PDT)

I have just upload a list of Haciendas and Ranchos from the 1839 Church Census of Asientos, Aguascalientes. There are some names that were hard to make out so I put question marks after the name.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15101

Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Fresno,CA

Asientos, Aguascalientes Feb 1839 Church Census listing Haciendas and Ranchos

I have just upload a list of Haciendas and Ranchos from the 1839 Church Census of Asientos, Aguascalientes. There are some names that were hard to make out so I put question marks after the name.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15101

Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Fresno,CA

Pánuco, Zacatecas

Isn't somebody researching this area?:

Title
Padrones, 1807-1922

Authors
Iglesia Católica () (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilm de manuscritos en el archivo diocesano de Zacatecas.
Pánuco es una vicaría de Veta Grande, Zacatecas.
Membership lists of the parish of Pánuco, Zacatecas.

Subjects
México, Zacatecas, Pánuco - Census

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1987

Physical
1 rollo de microfilm ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Padrones 1807-1840, 1864, 1878, 1889, 1922 (no hay orden) - FHL INTL Film [ 1464049 ]

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

Salt Lake Next Week

Everybody and anybody who is headed to Salt Lake next week, can you
please email me privately and let me know where you will be staying
and how we can get in touch? It would be nice to organize a Nuestros
Ranchos dinner or lunch or something of the sort.

I look forward to seeing you all there.

Padrones de Panuco

Hello Arturo, I've researched the 1930 census for Villa Garcia and Vetagrande, Zacatecas. That was not church related, right? Or is this the same data. If it isn't, how do I acquire it? Thanks so much, Alice Blake

--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:

From: arturoramos
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Padrones de Panuco
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:43:09 -0700 (PDT)

Alice:

Padrones are censuses. In Mexico, the Church would take parrish censuses every generation or so. The ones that I have seen have listings of people's names by locality along with their ages and profession as well as relationship to the head of the household. Very useful but not indexed so you have to know precisely where the people you are looking for lived or be willing to wheel through thousands of names to find your needle in the haystack.

Some spirits!

Some months ago a boy from my neighbor´s throw some rocks from his second floor terrace to my second floor roof. I yelled asking him to stop, he not even turn his head, then I manaced to tell his mom and it worked! The past weekend he did it again but with wooden blocks (tiny blocks) so I went to his door, his grandma granted me to come in, so I did. We had a little chat and she was nice listening to me and asking me question about my family and I ask about hers. Then I dropped it
my Genealogy questionaire! there is a little story behind this.

Like 25 year ago my mom and she had a verbal street fight about some water delivery, ´couse those days there where no tab water we had to pay for tanks.

Since then we, the families, don´t talk to each other.

And this ocasion she received me in her home with expression like "come on in Leticia", "it has been long time since I don´t chat with you!

There is more! This lady is a relative of my mom, not very close, and so is of my dad! I don´t know yet how or how far are we related and she ofered me to investigate names with her brother. Are there spirits working around throwing stones?!

We always knew we were related, but just when I was wondering how to investigat his grandson throw items to my roor!

General Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5

As far as the Legend of the Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa, I heard a
similar legend about one of my ancestors too--not the Martin del Campos
either. It was totally false, as I found this ancestor's baptism record
that discounted the whole story. The Martin del Campo family from Los
Altos is also very well documented as coming from La Revilla de Campos
in Spain, not France. Also if you read in I believe the first volume of
Retonos... By Mariano Gonz.- Leal's book, he discounts the whole French
thing in los Altos. I always wonder why so many individuals have been
told this--you know being French and all. People from Los Altos have
always been such a closed society that didn't like to mingle with
outsiders. Now why would they mingle with common French soldiers, and
boast about it too? During the Cristiada, much later in history, women
from Los Altos (probably in other locales too, but I can only speak for
Los Altos) were often hidden from any soldiers which might be riding by.
Why would French soldiers be seen any differently? I don't even think
they ever came near Los Altos. Read Don Mariano's book for he discusses
this.

Just wondering...
Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero
Northern California

Corrine and Maria Elena,

Here is the story from a GeaNet posting.

Emilie

Date:
September 5, 2005 06:40PM
Frank te esta hablando tu tia Graciela .
Me ha dado mucho gusto encontrarte y yo te digo que la historia que yo
tengo es asi :
( Esto sucedio al rededor de los anos de la inbacion Francesa, al
rededor de l700....... ) Un nino fue abandonado en las puestas de la
"Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa" con ropages muy finos en una canastilla , y
el nino llevaba puesta una medalla y ropages muy finos y prendida una
nota , en la cual decia:
este nino ya ha sido bautizado y se llama Martin, ruego que no se la
quiten la medalla en el trascurso de su vida.

Los duenos de la Hacienda ya eran personas grandes de edad y nunca
tubieron familia ( y posiblemente creyeron que era la parte adecuada
para que el nino creciera y quisas pudieran reconocerlo cuando El
creciera. ) El nino crecio y las familias y el medio ambiente que les
rodeaban, sabian que el nino no era decendiente de los duenos de la"
HACIENDA DE LA YEGUA RUSA," asi que al nino le empesaron a decir o
identificar cuando hablaban de El ; " ahi va Martin, y cuando se
preguntaban que Martin, facil lo identificaban con" Martin, del campo" (
de la yegua rusa), ya que la Haciebnda estaba cituada en una area que
era grande y le rodeaba la belleza del campo .

Ese nino se supone que fue algun deslis de la fam. real ya que el nino
era blanco, rubio y de ojos azules y el ropaje era de telas muy finas y
encajes franceses , pero como no era bien visto en eos tiempos los
deslices en las familias de alto rango asi que los ninos los desconocian
a los ignoraban escondiendolos o regalandolos pero siempre habia una
clave para poder dar algun dia con los hijos.
Esta es la historia de los Martin del campo .

Parese que la Hacienda famosa estaba situada en Lagos de Moreno, Jal.,
mas no me consta , pero yo tambien he investigado a cerca del origen de
nuestro apeido y esta historia he encontrado. En Lagos de Moreno ,Jal.
se construyo un puente que tiene una inscripcion que dice asi:" Este
puente fue construido en Lagos y se pasa por arriba". Es curioso porque
en aquellos tiempos las personas cominaban apie en burro o a caballo
puesto que todo era cercano y a la orilla del pueblo habia un rio pero
solo en tiempo de lluvias se llenaba de agua, asi que muy pocas personas
eran las que crusaban el puente , se les hacia mas facil crusarse el
arroyuelo a pie que ir a dar la vuelta hasta donde estaba el puente.

Este comentario te lo hago porque las personas pudientes de aquellos
tiempos solian hacer sus fincas en un lugar alto y serca de un rio para
proteger su sitio. y me parecio el mas adecuado porque parece ser que
ahi fue la cuna de los Martin del campo, ya que era la parte mas
acercada entre Mexaico y Guadalajara .

Frank espero estes bien y siempre los recuerdo saludos a tu esposa y los
ninos y saludame a tu papa haber si se acuerda de mi.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 14:23:48 -0700
From: "Emilie Garcia"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fw: Legend of Hacienda de Yegua Rusa
(in Spanish)
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Arturo,

Could you please translate this story into English for those who aren't
that proficient in Spanish? Also, I have a question: In the story, the
lady says that the French invaded Lagos de Moreno around the 1700s. Is
that true? I thought the French invasion occurred in the middle of the
1800's after the Spanish were kicked out, no? I am so confused by
people saying that their ancestors were from France, including my own
father, now deceased, who told me that his great-great grandfather was
called "El Frances" and had blue eyes. My research shows that his
ancestors lived in Salitrillo, Tepetongo, Zacatecas for hundreds of
years, and the only white people mentioned were "espanol" and the
surnames are Spanish, not French, except for his own surname which is
Basque (Olague). I keep thinking that because the most recent European
invaders had been French in my g-g-grandfather's time, the people just
thought that all white, blue-eyed people there were "French".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----

Ordering Material From Archivo del Arzobispado de Guadalajara ???

Has anyone ever ordered material from the Archivo del Arzobispado de Guadalajara (AAG)? Is it possible? Is it expensive? If you have info on this can you post it to the group?

I'm interested in ordering this Padron listed in Dr. Lyman Platt's book "Census Record for Latin America. . ." for Zacatecas, Zacatecas:

1770

Are you all that are going on the "Dream Team Trip" going to be swinging by the Archivo del Arzobispado de Guadalajara (AAG)? Any chance I could get one of you to purchase this for me?

joseph

Have You Ordered This film? Old News?

Not being from Los Altos I'm not keeping up on your all's discussions. Happened upon this and was wondering if you have already ordered this film?

joseph

===================

Title Documentos eclesiásticos, 1772-1784
Authors Iglesia Católica. Arzobispado de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)

Note Location
Film
Descripción y padrones de la Audiencia de Guadalajara 1772-1773, 1784 Cartas y expedientes 1772 Padrón de Totatiche de Taltenango 1773 Padrón de Sr. San Juan 1772-1773, 1784 Padrón de la Razón 1773 Testimonio del plan del curato de Tlajomulco 1772-1773 FHL INTL Film
758093

New MtDNA Results

I just received the mtDNA from the test that my father did.

Both of my maternal lineages have come back as indigenous (A and B) and both of my paternal lineages have come back as European (E3b and R1b)

HVR1 Haplogroup
B

HVR1 differences
from CRS
16092C
16111T
16182C
16183C
16189C
16217C
16483A
16519C

A Geographical Breakthrough!

I had to post this and share it with you all because I am so thrilled! No one had been able to find any information on the Hacienda de Los Campos, Aguascalientes where my grandmother was born. I searched and searched under all configurations, and FINALLY when switching from Yahoo's engine to Google's, I found an oral history narrated by an elderly man from El Molino, municipality of Asientos, Aguascalientes. In his narrative he tells how his pueblo of El Molino was once part of La Hacienda De Los Campos! He said that the Hacienda once had huge holdings of land in a place in the northeast that was disputed by three states but which became part of Aguascalientes (Asientos). He said that in the middle of the century there was muich rain which eventually destroyed the hacienda (or the lands - my Spanish translation is so-so on this because he seems to ranmble a bit) and one of the vestiges that was left was the water powered mill with which the hacendados made wheat flour, so
the pueblo became known as El Molino. The oterh payoff from this is that while looking at the names of haciendas in Asientos, I found Ojo de Agua de Rosales, my grandfather's birthplace! This makes Asientos my 'family home' so to speak. Another breakthrough...do you all feel as elated as I do when you make an exciting find like this??
John

Poems and Cuentos

I was checking out the Poems and Cuentos in the files and thought of asking
if anyone had ever heard of the story from Jalisco about "hijo de la yegua
rusa," which means son of a russian mare. Anyways, my mother regrets not
paying any attention to her aunt telling the story to my sister, both of
whom are now deceased. Another of my mom's aunts is still living, so we
hope to get the story from her and record it.

Corrine Ardoin

Ancestor report for Zenaida Orozco Moreno

Hola a todos:

En mi folder de archivos podrán encontrar un reporte de los ancestros de mi
bisabuela Zenaida Orozco Moreno. (14 generaciones)

Archivos --- Archivos de Genealogia de Miembros --- Jose Humberto Suarez
Villarreal ------------------------- Ancestros de Zenaida Orozco Moreno /
Zenaida Orozco Moreno´s Ancestors

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=1263

Saludos
Jose Humberto
---------------------------------
Hello everyone:

In my file folder you will find an ancestor report for my great-grandmother
Zenaida Orozco Moreno (14 generations)

Files --- Members´ Genealogy --- Jose Humberto Suarez Villarreal
----------------------------------------------------Ancestros de Zenaida
Orozco Moreno / Zenaida Orozco Moreno´s Ancestors

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=1263

Best Regards
Jose Humberto

Martin Del Campo/Romero/De La Torre & Photos

I am still waiting to get my scanner fixed before I can upload a wonderful
wedding photo of my grandmother and her two sisters and other photos, as
well. I am also still trying to find out the connection to my Martin Del
Campo ancestry and the Romero/De la Torre families. Other pictures I have
are of Pioquinta Gonzalez Figueroa, from Madrid, Spain, according to my
mother. Pioquinta was her great-grandmother. I also have pictures of my
mom's grandfather and grandmother Alberto Martin Del Campo and Francisca
Cabral and of Alberto's mother, Rita Robles Rivera who married Ismael Martin
Del Campo and his sister, Lola. We suspect Jewish heritage in there with a
name like Ismael in our family tree.

Corrine Ardoin

document on Aguascalientes Hacienda Uploaded

Hello all
Ihave uploaded the document about the Hacienda de los Campos to my folder
in the "members genealogies". It is under my name, John Robles, or you can get there via http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15063. The name of the file is 'History - La Hacienda de los Campos' and is a narrative that tells about the pueblo of El Molino and how it was once part of La Hacienda de los Campos. This was a major discovery for me, because the Hacienda no longer appears anywhere, not even in the ex-Haciendas list.
Thanks
John