does anyone know what " fallcio de Hogio" mean

my grandfather death died of Hogio thanks for reading

Comentarios

Comentario

The closest explanation I could find is some sort of respiratory problem. Fallecio de means he died of ....hogio.
Gloria

Comentario

chris thanks for the quick response. it had been said by the family stories that he (grandfather) had died of asthma. I just uncovered his document when he died and it said " Fallecio de Hogio " I didn't know what that meant and I was wondering if the stores were true. This grandfather is my Great, Great Grandfather I don't know how you were able to get Fallecio de Hogio to a breathing difficulty but thanks.

Tucson, Arizona Research Resources

Hello,

I am going to be in the Tucson, Arizona area next month. And was wondering if anyone could recommend some places to research at?

Thanks,
Jon Walker

Comentarios

Comentario

The state archives are located in Phoenix. If you are able to drive there it is worth the trip. The records are all stored on microfilm and the staff will help you identify which film you need to review. That said, you will need to scroll through the rolls to find the records you want - that means it helps to have an idea of what year and location you seek. You can print copies from the viewer for 10 cents. They can make change if necessary. Plan to spend the day there.

You will need to register with them when you arrive - you'll need your ID. You probably already know that you can find birth/death certificates on line. However, they explained that there was a time when someone requested a birth certificate and it was simply given to them without retaining a copy. While you may not find the copy, the index cards were retained that listed date of birth, location, and the names of the parents. Still very helpful. You can also pull copies of marriage records not available on line.

Here's the website with the address: http://www.azlibrary.gov/arm

Comentario

I spent a few weeks there and found a lot of interesting books and journals in the Main Library of the University of Arizona. They have large collections on history of Mexico and southern US.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

"Abuelos incognitos"?

I recently ran across a church baptismal record on familysearch.org that stated "abuelos incognitos".

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Cindy:

Existieron varias razones para ocultar el nombre de los padres de un niño, pudo ser una relación que no era socialmente aceptable, o que causara deshonra de acuerdo a las reglas de la época. Era mejor aceptado el hijo que se tenía con mujer soltera que con mujer casada, porque podría dañar a la familia ya establecida. Pero un indicio importante para conocer la identidad es el nombre de los padrinos, porque muchas veces son miembros del mismo clan.

Tengo un caso cercano en que una mujer acudió a bautizar una niña como su hija natural, pero no era posible ya que esa mujer se encontraba embarazada de un hijo que nació a los pocos meses y además era casada y el marido no acudió, pero sí reconoció al hijo que nació poco después. Hemos pensado que se trata de la abuela que bautizó a una nieta posiblemente hija de un hija de 17 años. La niña la entregó a su hermano y a su cuñada para que la criaran y le pusieron sus apellidos sin registrarla.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Some records have the granparents some dont when they dont have them
recorded they are unknown or incognito.

Some form based baptism dont have the granparents recorded for some reason
and some do.

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Cindy F wrote:

> I recently ran across a church baptismal record on familysearch.org that
> stated "abuelos incognitos". This doesn't seem to me that the grandparents
> were unknown but for some reason are unlisted.
> Has anyone run across this before? Why would the grandparents not be
> named? Any ideas?
> Thanks in advance for any insight.
>
> Cindy (Barela) Fahrbach
> email: genie_research@hotmail.com
> ----------------------------------------
> Researching: Banegas, Barela, Cutler,
> De La O, Fahrbach, Jimenez, Keller,
> May, Navarro, Starnes, Utley, Ybarra
> ----------------------------------------

Comentario

You have to remember that the child's mother was usually not present at the
baptism. She was observing "La Quarentena" For 40 days after the birth of
the child she was confined to her home for bed rest, not allowed to leave
the house or do any housework. This is probably the only time in her life
that she was cared for by others, her parents, siblings, in-laws or
husband.

The Padrinos or Godparents would be present at the baptism and maybe the
father. The Godparents may not have known the names of all the
grandparents, therefore Incognito, or unknown.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Cindy F wrote:

> I recently ran across a church baptismal record on familysearch.org that
> stated "abuelos incognitos". This doesn't seem to me that the grandparents
> were unknown but for some reason are unlisted.
> Has anyone run across this before? Why would the grandparents not be
> named? Any ideas?
> Thanks in advance for any insight.
>
> Cindy (Barela) Fahrbach
> email: genie_research@hotmail.com
> ----------------------------------------
> Researching: Banegas, Barela, Cutler,
> De La O, Fahrbach, Jimenez, Keller,
> May, Navarro, Starnes, Utley, Ybarra
> ----------------------------------------

Epifanio Mercado

I am in search of a photo of my great grandfather Epifanio Mercado son of Ricardo Mercado and Silvestra Vargas date of baptism, April (21 maybe) 1871, born in Rancho Virgenes, Monte Escobedo, Zacateca

araiza, araisa, arais, araiz

There is an applicant to the group that wants to know if anyone is doing
research on these names: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz

Hay un aplicante que quiere saber si hay algunos en el grupo haciendo

Comentarios

Comentario

I have an ancestor with araiza that I have not had a chance to investigate.
Juan Aguilar Solorzano married Luisa Araiza y Medina on 9/mar/1651 in Aguascalientes. they were the parents of Joseph aguilar solorzano.

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Rick,

Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano married twice. His first wife was Mariana Tellez de Heredia. No information about this marriage. After his wife died he married Luisa de Araisa y Medina on 9 April 1651 in Aguascalientes. His father's name was also Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano. I have no information about his mother. Juan had at least two siblings, Pedro who married Gertrudis de Araisa y Medina, and Antonia who married Hernando de Araisa y Medina. Juan, Pedro and Antonia were brothers and sisters. Luisa, Gertrudis and Hernando were sisters and brother. The parents of the last three were Juan de Araisa y Medina and María Lozano.

I have five sons and four daughters for Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano and Luisa de Araisa y Medina, but no Joseph.

Juan I b. 1652 died infant 1659
Gerónimo b. 1654
María b. 1655 m. (no date) Sebastián Ruiz de Esparza Sotelo d. before 1688
Juan II b. 1660 died infant 1666
Francisca b. 1665
Diego b. 1667 Clérigo Presbítero d. 1745
Ana b. 1670
Juan III b. 1671 m. 1703 Rosa de Medina d. 1744. Parents of Rosa de Medina? Possibly a relative.
Gertrudis b. 1675

Give me some info. about Joseph and I will check my database to try to find him. Baptism? Marriage? Burial?

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "R.A.Ricci"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] araiza & Medina

>
> I have an ancestor with araiza that I have not had a chance to investigate.
> Juan Aguilar Solorzano married Luisa Araiza y Medina on 9/mar/1651 in Aguascalientes. they were the parents of Joseph aguilar solorzano.
>
>
>
> R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Joseph was named as the son of Juan aguilar solorzano and luiza de araisa y medina in a despensa

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Bill Figueroa
Sent: Tue 2/24/2009 10:47 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] araiza & Medina

Rick,

Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano married twice. His first wife was Mariana Tellez de Heredia. No information about this marriage. After his wife died he married Luisa de Araisa y Medina on 9 April 1651 in Aguascalientes. His father's name was also Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano. I have no information about his mother. Juan had at least two siblings, Pedro who married Gertrudis de Araisa y Medina, and Antonia who married Hernando de Araisa y Medina. Juan, Pedro and Antonia were brothers and sisters. Luisa, Gertrudis and Hernando were sisters and brother. The parents of the last three were Juan de Araisa y Medina and María Lozano.

I have five sons and four daughters for Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano and Luisa de Araisa y Medina, but no Joseph.

Juan I b. 1652 died infant 1659
Gerónimo b. 1654
María b. 1655 m. (no date) Sebastián Ruiz de Esparza Sotelo d. before 1688
Juan II b. 1660 died infant 1666
Francisca b. 1665
Diego b. 1667 Clérigo Presbítero d. 1745
Ana b. 1670
Juan III b. 1671 m. 1703 Rosa de Medina d. 1744. Parents of Rosa de Medina? Possibly a relative.
Gertrudis b. 1675

Give me some info. about Joseph and I will check my database to try to find him. Baptism? Marriage? Burial?

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "R.A.Ricci"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] araiza & Medina

>
> I have an ancestor with araiza that I have not had a chance to investigate.
> Juan Aguilar Solorzano married Luisa Araiza y Medina on 9/mar/1651 in Aguascalientes. they were the parents of Joseph aguilar solorzano.
>
>
>
> R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Rick,

Is the dispensa included in the book "Sagrada Mitra" by Luz
Montejano-Hilton? Can you give me the item and page number to look it up, or
email me a scan if you already have one?

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricci, Richard"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] araiza & Medina

Joseph was named as the son of Juan aguilar solorzano and luiza de araisa y
medina in a dispensa.

Comentario

He was not named in the dispensa but from the dispensa I figured out that the mother of micaela aguilar solorzano (wife of a saines de santiago)was surnamed ysazi. From there I used the family search program to search for the husband of antonia Ysazi which led me to the marriage certificate of antonia Ysazi married to jose aguilar solorzano which gave the parents of the bride and groom

I was actually lucky. I had mistakenly speculated that micaela aguilar solorzano was a ruiz de esparz because jose saines is listed as having a 2nd wife by the name of micaela ruiz de esparsa by jaime holcombe and I was checking to see if he had made a mistake, I had been going over all dispensations that had ruiz de esparz and aguilar solorzano in them to see if they were possibly the same person. My investigation proved him correct that they were two distinct individuals. And my investigations uncovered the parents of Micaela Aguilar Solorzano. Later on I will continue to research if the 2 micaelas were related. I stopped looking for micaela ruiz de esparzas parents when I found my ancestors, the parents of micaela aguilar solorzano.

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Hello Bill,

I was wondering whether you had more information on juan Agiuilar Solorzano, father of juan Aguilar Solorzano who is married to Luisa de Araiza Medina. I think you were the one that told me that the Aguilar Solorzanos came over from Colima. There are many Juan Aguilar Solorzanos, all from the same family, in Colima. I have gathered some information on this Aguilar Solorzano family and am hoping to find another piece to the puzzle. There are two connections to the Flores family and a connection to the Pantoja family that I have been studying.

Thanks, Rick A Ricci

Comentario

Dear Bill Figueroa,

Here is Joseph Aguilar Solorzano's marriage record:

Name Joseph De Aguilar Solorzano
Spouse's Name Antonia De Ysazi
Event Date 25 May 1681
Event Place Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Juan De Aguilar Solorsano
Mother's Name Luisa De Araiza
Spouse's Father's Name Nicolas Martin Del Campo
Spouse's Mother's Name Sebastiana De Yzasi
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCXN-5R6 : 15 July 2015), Juan De Aguilar Solorsano in entry for Joseph De Aguilar Solorzano and Antonia De Ysazi, 25 May 1681; citing Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 221,512.

Do you still have Juan Aguilar Solorzano's father as another Juan? There is conflicting information posted as to his father. I have been collecting much information on this family. I am looking for a primary source that clearly states the name of his father since some other genealogists insist the our Juan Aguilar Solorzano is a son of Francisco de Aguilar Solorzano and Anna Ruiz de Galindo Escobar, and that Francisco is the son of Geronimo Matheo de Aguilar and Constanza de Castillejas

Francisco and Anna are also Parents of Gaspar Aguilar Solorzano, alcalde mayor de la villa de Colima married to Bernarda Siorda ( from the family of an ancestor of mine surnamed Rodriguez Ponce)
Thanks,
R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Joseph,

I am researching early records of Aguascalientes beginning around 1600. One
prominent family that lived in the city (which was only a village at the
time) had the compounded surname Araisa y Medina. Please pass it on to the
applicant to Nuestros Ranchos in case he/she is interested.

Estoy investigando los primeros registros de Aguascalientes, los cuales
empiezan por el año 1600. Una de las familias más prominentes de esa ciudad
(villa en aquellos tiempos) llevaba el apellido Araisa y Medina. Favor de
pasarle esta información a la persona interesada.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
There is an applicant to the group that wants to know if anyone is doing
research on these names: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz.

Hay un aplicante que quiere saber si hay algunos en el grupo haciendo
investigacion de estos apellidos: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz

joseph

Comentario

Joseph,

I actually have araisa/araiza early info. Perhaps Bill and I have the same info, but please pass this on to this member just in case.

Connie

---- Bill Figueroa wrote:

=============
Joseph,

I am researching early records of Aguascalientes beginning around 1600. One
prominent family that lived in the city (which was only a village at the
time) had the compounded surname Araisa y Medina. Please pass it on to the
applicant to Nuestros Ranchos in case he/she is interested.

Estoy investigando los primeros registros de Aguascalientes, los cuales
empiezan por el año 1600. Una de las familias más prominentes de esa ciudad
(villa en aquellos tiempos) llevaba el apellido Araisa y Medina. Favor de
pasarle esta información a la persona interesada.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
There is an applicant to the group that wants to know if anyone is doing
research on these names: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz.

Hay un aplicante que quiere saber si hay algunos en el grupo haciendo
investigacion de estos apellidos: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz

joseph

Comentario

Estimado Joseph yo he encontrado mucho de ese apellido pero de forma compuesta, de hecho es el apellido más extendido en el sur del Estado de México y el Noreste de Guerrero actualmente sólo se usa Benítez pero en la época colonial fue Benítez de Araiza algunas veces escrito por los curas de Araiza o sólo Araiza.
A la región del sur del estado de México llegan a finales del siglo XVI seguramente atraidos por los descubrimientos argentíferos de los recien fundados Reales de Minas de Temascaltepec y Sultepec.

Los libros parroquiales de Tejupilco los más antiguos y completos que comienzan en 1644 ya mencionan a los Benitez de Ariza entonces dos hermanos: Cristobal y Felipe como vecinos de San Diego Cuentla una doctrina indígena por las haciendas que poseyeron San José Almoloya y luego reciben merced para fundar una tenería de pieles y se funda la Hacienda del la Tenería de Cuentla, a fines del siglo XVII un Juan José funda la hacienda de San José del Río Grande. Las 3 haciendas eran vecinas y limitaban entre sí, perteneciendo las 3 a la Parroquia de Tejupilco, en el siglo XVIII personas de este apellido poseyeron tambien la Hacienda de San Nicolás de Nanchichitla, y la Hacienda de Bejucos que de todas es la única que se mantiene intacta con exepción de la capilla, esta hacienda data de 1623.

Como dato curioso: fueron Don Felipe Benitez de Ariza y su mujer Doña Petronila Espinoza de los Monteros los padrinos de bautizo de Don Cristobal Hidalgo - Costilla Espinoza de los Monteros, el padre de Don Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla un 18 de septiembre de 1713. Doña petronila era hermana de la mamá de Don Cristobal, de nombre Mariana.

Espero le pueda servir de algo, sé que estas personas no nacieron en la región que estudiamos aquí pero tal vez exista relación.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:46:17 -0500> From: makas@nc.rr.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] araiza, araisa, arais, araiz> > > There is an applicant to the group that wants to know if anyone is doing > research on these names: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz> > Hay un aplicante que quiere saber si hay algunos en el grupo haciendo > investigacion de estos appellidos: araiza, araisa, arais, araiz> > joseph> > =====================> > Joseph Puentes> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes > Genealogy)> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
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Introduction - Cadena, Velasquez, Vasquez, Gomez in Jalisco

Hello to all,

I am new to the list since last week and in this message I'm presenting my
second main line - Cadena - found in Cuquio, San Antonio de los Vasquez and
San Felipe, all in Jalisco. They were espanoles.

Comentarios

Comentario

If you've ever heard of Miguel Cadena, you'll find he was mestizo--
padre was espagnol and also named Miguel and madre was india
(Chichimeca) and he was a great warrior! Marge:)

On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Susan and Joe Cadena wrote:

Hello to all,

I am new to the list since last week and in this message I'm
presenting my
second main line - Cadena - found in Cuquio, San Antonio de los
Vasquez and
San Felipe, all in Jalisco. They were espanoles.

Earliest ancestor found is Manuel Cadena married to Ana Santiaga Jacoba
Gomes (dau. of Joachim Gomes and Maria Gertrudis Vasquez, born ca.
1754, San
Felipe/Cuquio). The only child found of this couple thus far is Jose
Leondardo Esculano Cadena, born Nov 1781 in Cuquio. Working backwards,
Manuel would have been born about 1750, but I've been unable to find a
record thus far. Manuel was dead at the time of son Jose's first
marriage in
1806; Ana Gomes died between 1806 and Jose's second marriage (to Maria
Eusebia Vasquez) in 1829.

The name Cadena was quite prevalent in the Cuquio area at this time.
Jose's
children were born between 1807-1819 in either Cuquio or San Antonio
de los
Vasquez, which lies somewhat east of Ixtlahuacan del Rio. One of them,
Maria
Francisca Romana Cadena, ended up marrying in Guadalajara to Raymundo
Gutierres of the Gutierres Rubio line found in and around Tepatitlan.

Is anyone else on the list researching the name Cadena? I'm trying to
find
out where the family came from before Cuquio - directly from Spain, or
elsewhere in Mexico? Does anyone know of records besides those of the
church
for this area? There are gaps in the church records that have made
research
difficult. There is also the possibility that the Cadena were in
Guadalajara
before Cuquio.

Thank you in advance for all suggestions.

Susan Cadena

Comentario

Miguel Caldera (see Powell's book: Mexico's Miguel Caldera) is very
famous, but not a Cadena. His father was Pedro Caldera. There is a town
outside of Jerez called Garcia de la Cadena. I have an Ana Garcia de la
Cadena and her father Andreas in my direct line. It is probably a
stretch to drop the Garcia.
George

Marge Vallazza wrote:
> If you've ever heard of Miguel Cadena, you'll find he was
> mestizo--padre was espagnol and also named Miguel and madre was india
> (Chichimeca) and he was a great warrior! Marge:)
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Susan and Joe Cadena wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
>
>
> I am new to the list since last week and in this message I'm
> presenting my
> second main line - Cadena - found in Cuquio, San Antonio de los
> Vasquez and
> San Felipe, all in Jalisco. They were espanoles.
>
>
>
> Earliest ancestor found is Manuel Cadena married to Ana Santiaga Jacoba
> Gomes (dau. of Joachim Gomes and Maria Gertrudis Vasquez, born ca.
> 1754, San
> Felipe/Cuquio). The only child found of this couple thus far is Jose
> Leondardo Esculano Cadena, born Nov 1781 in Cuquio. Working backwards,
> Manuel would have been born about 1750, but I've been unable to find a
> record thus far. Manuel was dead at the time of son Jose's first
> marriage in
> 1806; Ana Gomes died between 1806 and Jose's second marriage (to Maria
> Eusebia Vasquez) in 1829.
>
>
>
> The name Cadena was quite prevalent in the Cuquio area at this time.
> Jose's
> children were born between 1807-1819 in either Cuquio or San Antonio
> de los
> Vasquez, which lies somewhat east of Ixtlahuacan del Rio. One of them,
> Maria
> Francisca Romana Cadena, ended up marrying in Guadalajara to Raymundo
> Gutierres of the Gutierres Rubio line found in and around Tepatitlan.
>
>
>
> Is anyone else on the list researching the name Cadena? I'm trying to
> find
> out where the family came from before Cuquio - directly from Spain, or
> elsewhere in Mexico? Does anyone know of records besides those of the
> church
> for this area? There are gaps in the church records that have made
> research
> difficult. There is also the possibility that the Cadena were in
> Guadalajara
> before Cuquio.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for all suggestions.
>
> Susan Cadena
>

Comentario

ooops! :) As one of Gilda Radnor's character used to say on SNL,
"Oh. Never mind." (Was it Emily Latela?) :) Marge:)
On Jan 19, 2009, at 4:10 PM, George Luna wrote:

Miguel Caldera (see Powell's book: Mexico's Miguel Caldera) is very
famous, but not a Cadena. His father was Pedro Caldera. There is a
town outside of Jerez called Garcia de la Cadena. I have an Ana Garcia
de la Cadena and her father Andreas in my direct line. It is probably
a stretch to drop the Garcia.
George

Marge Vallazza wrote:
> If you've ever heard of Miguel Cadena, you'll find he was mestizo--
> padre was espagnol and also named Miguel and madre was india
> (Chichimeca) and he was a great warrior! Marge:)
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Susan and Joe Cadena wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
>
>
> I am new to the list since last week and in this message I'm
> presenting my
> second main line - Cadena - found in Cuquio, San Antonio de los
> Vasquez and
> San Felipe, all in Jalisco. They were espanoles.
>
>
>
> Earliest ancestor found is Manuel Cadena married to Ana Santiaga
> Jacoba
> Gomes (dau. of Joachim Gomes and Maria Gertrudis Vasquez, born ca.
> 1754, San
> Felipe/Cuquio). The only child found of this couple thus far is Jose
> Leondardo Esculano Cadena, born Nov 1781 in Cuquio. Working backwards,
> Manuel would have been born about 1750, but I've been unable to find a
> record thus far. Manuel was dead at the time of son Jose's first
> marriage in
> 1806; Ana Gomes died between 1806 and Jose's second marriage (to Maria
> Eusebia Vasquez) in 1829.
>
>
>
> The name Cadena was quite prevalent in the Cuquio area at this time.
> Jose's
> children were born between 1807-1819 in either Cuquio or San Antonio
> de los
> Vasquez, which lies somewhat east of Ixtlahuacan del Rio. One of
> them, Maria
> Francisca Romana Cadena, ended up marrying in Guadalajara to Raymundo
> Gutierres of the Gutierres Rubio line found in and around Tepatitlan.
>
>
>
> Is anyone else on the list researching the name Cadena? I'm trying
> to find
> out where the family came from before Cuquio - directly from Spain, or
> elsewhere in Mexico? Does anyone know of records besides those of
> the church
> for this area? There are gaps in the church records that have made
> research
> difficult. There is also the possibility that the Cadena were in
> Guadalajara
> before Cuquio.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for all suggestions.
>
> Susan Cadena
>

Comentario

I am also researching the Cadena name. Miguel Cadena was my great grandfather who was baptized in Sombrerete in 1865, His father was Candido Cadena and Candido's father was Pascual Cadena.

Marge, Susan,
do either of you have information about Miguel, Candido, or Pascual, or any of these Cadena's?

Thank you very much!

Fernando Fermin Garcia

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

could someone tell me what the words are on this baptism for Fernando
Fermin Garcia on the right page near the bottom between cinquenta y quatro
años and baptize y puze

Comentarios

Comentario

"de Dni. Parochi liz.a"- Abreviaturas en Latín

"de Domini Parrochi lizencia" - "con la licencia del Señor Párroco"

(which means "with the licence [or permission] of the Parrish Lord [priest]"

Comentario

Danny,

I can't quite make out the words, maybe someone else can help with that,
but I think it's just saying he had a parish license to perform the baptism.

Paige

Juan Miramontes and Brigida de Urritia

For well over 20 years I’ve been researching my Miramontes family line finally hitting the “wall” years ago. We’ve all experienced this from time to time.

Comentarios

Comentario

Six to five years ago, several of us - including the late Guillermo Tovar de Teresa and myself - provided a thorough analysis of the Miramontes family of Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.

Please go over EVERY word, accent, and comment in the following thread. We explored the ancestry of Juan de Miramontes & Brígida Ortiz de Urrutia (whose parents were Hernando Machado Rangel & María Bernal, she dau. of Diego Machón de Urrutia & N. Bernal).

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18291 [check out pages 1, 2, & 3]

SFHL
Steven Francisco Hernández Gamiño y López de los Reyes…y Miramontes.

Comentario

I have this and the children I have for them are Fernando/Hernando wife Cecilia Lopez, Lorenso wife Maria Gonzales, Juan, Tomasina, husband Juan Sanchez Castellanos and Maria Rodrigues de Haro, husband Juan Miramontes. They are from Tlaltenango.
.
Declaración de Nicolás Díaz, español de 60 años de edad: Porque Juan de Miramontes y María de Saucedo, tuvieron por hijos a Hernando de Aro y a Juan de
Miramontes. dicho Juan de Miramontes. tuvo a Juana de Miramontes. y la dicha
tuvo a Doña Ana de Vera, madre del pretenso; y Hernando de Aro. tuvo por hija a
Doña Lorenza de Aro. y la dicha tuvo a Doña María Tello de Orozco, madre de la pretensa.
,
Declaración de Don Diego López Bravo.
español de 48 años de edad: Sabe que el difunto Francisco Xavier de Haro marido que fué de esta pretensa y Juan de Miramontes. el Gordito es tio carnal de este pretenso en segundo grado, por ser primo hermano de Juan de Miramontes Aro.
padre de este dicho pretenso. Declaración de Don Fernando de Haro. español de 73 años de edad, pariente de los pretensos: Que Doña Gertrudis de la Cueva está en tercero con quinto grado de afinidad con su pretenso porque Lorenzo de Miramontes Aro. tuvo y procreó por su hijo legítimo a Juan de Miramontes Aro, quien en la misma forma hubo y procreó a Bartholomé de Miramontes Aro, el cual
de la misma manera hubo y procreó a Juan de Miramontes Aro, padre legítimo deThomás de Miramontes Aro que es el pretenso. Y en cuanto a la pretensa es a saber que Femando de Aro. hermano de Lorenzo de Miramontes Aro. tatarabuelo del pretenso, hubo y procreó por su hijo legítimo a Joseph de Aro, padre de Francisco Xavier de Aro, marido de la pretensa. Otros testigos declaran que los
pretensos no tienen parentesco alguno, o que se encuentran en grados diferentes.
Se otorgó La dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 4 de julio de 1746. 25
fojas.

Comentario

Chris, thanks for your reply to my post. I've seen this information on this webpage. I wasn't certain of the veracity of the information there. It seemed to me some of the discussions concerning Juan's parents here on the NR website were not completely definitive. Again this may be a misinterpretation on my part. I fully realize the great deal of research poured into these first generations of the Miramontes family by many NR members and the lack of records available to prove out some of these relationships. For this I am very appreciative.

Gus Meza

Carlos and Luisa Rovalcava

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone tell me what the two words are on this marriage for my
ancestors Carlos Rovalcava and Luisa Rovalcava.

Comentarios

Comentario

Primo Juan Carlos Aguayo is correct,* "Fueron legitimamente dispensados".*
They were given a legitimate dispensation, given that they were twice
related to the third degree and once related to the 4th degree. Maybe
that's why they had to stipulate that the dispensation was a legitimate one.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 12:15 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> Could someone tell me what the two words are on this marriage for my
> ancestors Carlos Rovalcava and Luisa Rovalcava. The two words are right
> before it say "fueron padrinos Hilario Garcia and Dominga Rovalcava"
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VK76-8
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny,

It says, legitimamente dispensados, or legitimately pardoned for being
related.

Saludos,
Juan Carlos Aguayo

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:15 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> Could someone tell me what the two words are on this marriage for my
> ancestors Carlos Rovalcava and Luisa Rovalcava. The two words are right
> before it say "fueron padrinos Hilario Garcia and Dominga Rovalcava"
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VK76-8
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Non-digitized documents on PARES

Is there a way to request digital copies of documents listed in PARES that are not digitized? I'm looking to get a document that is one page and looks like its just on microfilm.

Thank you

Alex

Comentarios

Comentario

Si se puede, en la misma pagina de Pares hay un link para solicitar archivos digitales, tembien te dan los costos.

Testamentos Aguascalientes: Como contactar a Paco Romo?

Hace algunos meses Paco Romo inicio un proyecto bien importante en Nuestros Ranchos para transcribir testamentos de Aguascalientes (http://www.romogutierrez.com/Transcripciones/Indices/Fondo_Notarial/

Comentarios

Comentario

Jaime y todos los miembros del grupo:

Parece que quedo truncado el proyecto que hace un año comenzó Paco Romo.

Sin embargo tu puedes ver cualquier documento del Archivo Histórico del Estado de Aguascalientes en la pagina web: http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx

Debes poner como user name: sigue.publica y como password publica. clic en Log in
Luego en la pagina que se abre debes seleccionar con boton derecho del mouse "SGG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX" y hacer clic en "NEW QUERY". Entonces te abrira una pagina para busqueda.

Es bastante malo el motor de busqueda. Necesitas escribir EXACTAMENTE los datos como están escritos en la base de datos para obtener lo que buscas. Lo mas practico que he encontrado para la busqueda de testamentos es por medio de la fecha en formato DD-MM-AAAA . En la pagina del proyecto que alguna vez inició Paco Romo esta la lista de los testamentos

http://www.romogutierrez.com/Transcripciones/Indices/Fondo_Notarial/Testamentos.htmx

Un ejemplo: para localizar el testamento de Maria Nuñez de Ortega en el textbox FECHA escribes 30-12-1686 presionas enter y te aparecerán 3 protocolos, el primero de ellos es precisamente el que tiene como contratante a Maria Nuñez de Ortega, solamente haces clic en el icono "Open document" y listo.

Espero sea de utilidad esta información.

Saludos cordiales

Miguel Beltran Romo
Encarnacion de Diaz, Jal.

Comentario

Miguel,
Muchisimas gracias por la informacion. Voy a seguir tus instrucciones. Respecto al proyecto iniciado por Paco, es una tristeza que quedara truncado, ya que creo que con el tiempo podriamos tener un material de referencia bien importante para todos los miembros con raices en Aguascalientes. Se que Angelina, asi com otros miembros de NR estariamos interesados a dar marcha adelante con ese proyecto.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Estimados señores,

Hace más de veinte años que el ingeniero Felipe Reyes Romo, persona muy
seria, estudiosa y amigo generoso, entonces director del Archivo Histórico
del Estado de Aguascalientes, concluyó un Indice de testamentos de del
Archivo de Aguascalientes, como sucesor del historiador Jesús Gómez Serrano,
el cual quedó en manos de Gerardo su colaborador, quien estaba buscando
editor para publicarlo.

El ingeniero Reyes Romo debe disponer de una copia de ese trabajo. Felipe
también es amigo de Bill Figueroa, y tanto él como un servidor, podríamos
exhortarlo a que permita la difusión de ese trabajo en Nuestros Ranchos.
Esto sería de una inmensa utilidad para todos ustedes, pues yo encontré
multitud de documentos de antepasados cuyos nombres he visto desfilar en los
innumerables correos de los diversos miembros de nuestra comunidad.

También tiene en sus manos el Indice del Archivo del Parral, elaborado por
una amiga suya, donde figuran muchas personas con los apellidos que nos
interesan. En este Indice también he encontrado documentos de antepasados
nuestros.

En suma, será cuestión de contactar a Felipe Reyes Romo, para que Arturo
Ramos, activo y responsable promotor de Nuestros Ranchos, encuentre la
manera de incorporar este par de corpus documentales para ser consultados
por todos nosotros, tal como lo hizo con los protocolos de Zacatecas del
siglo XVII que realizó Jaime Holcombe y yo lo envié.

Saludos

Guillermo Tovar de Teresa

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jaime R.
Alvarado
Enviado el: Lunes, 14 de Marzo de 2011 06:22 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentos del AHEA

Miguel,
Muchisimas gracias por la informacion. Voy a seguir tus instrucciones.
Respecto al proyecto iniciado por Paco, es una tristeza que quedara
truncado, ya que creo que con el tiempo podriamos tener un material de
referencia bien importante para todos los miembros con raices en
Aguascalientes. Se que Angelina, asi com otros miembros de NR estariamos
interesados a dar marcha adelante con ese proyecto.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

As an aid in searching Archivo Histórico del Estado de Aguascalientes, some fields, such as "Contratantes" allow the use of wildcards.

Example 1:

Entering "Miguel*" will give a list of files whose title begins with "Miguel". This search returns 229 records.

The search can be limited by choosing options in "Fondo", "Lugar" or any of the other options.

Placing a check in the box next to "Contratante" will result in that field being displayed with the search results.

Example 2:

Entering "*Miguel*" will return a list where the name "Miguel" is anywhere in the title. This search returns 563 records. Again, the searched can be limited by choosing other options.

Each page is viewed as a separate file, and all can be saved to your computer. The images are of reasonable quality.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George,
I googled Achivo Historico del Estado de Aguascalientes, but didn't get the right link.  Do you have it?  Thanks so much,  Alice  

--- On Wed, 3/16/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:

From: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] AHEA: Wildcard searches
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 5:02 AM

As an aid in searching Archivo Histórico del Estado de Aguascalientes, some fields, such as "Contratantes" allow the use of wildcards.

Example 1:

Entering "Miguel*" will give a list of files whose title begins with "Miguel". This search returns 229 records.

The search can be limited by choosing options in "Fondo", "Lugar" or any of the other options.

Placing a check in the box next to "Contratante" will result in that field being displayed with the search results.

Example 2:

Entering "*Miguel*" will return a list where the name "Miguel" is anywhere in the title. This search returns 563 records. Again, the searched can be limited by choosing other options.

Each page is viewed as a separate file, and all can be saved to your computer. The images are of reasonable quality.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Alice

The web address is http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx

User name: sigue.publica
password: publica

Miguel Beltran Romo in his posting on NR on 3/14/11 has some more detail.

The wills (testamento) seem to begin in the late 1600s. I've found some from somewhat later that have been very interesting and useful. Most of the documents are in good condition, but occasionally some are just fragments.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Thanks so much, George.  Sounds interesting; I'll definitely give it a try!
Alice

--- On Wed, 3/16/11, gpf13@aol.com wrote:

From: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Web address for AHEA
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 3:24 PM

Alice

The web address is http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx

User name: sigue.publica
password: publica

Miguel Beltran Romo in his posting on NR on 3/14/11 has some more detail.

The wills (testamento) seem to begin in the late 1600s. I've found some from somewhat later that have been very interesting and useful. Most of the documents are in good condition, but occasionally some are just fragments.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

El nombre de la persona que dispone ya concluido y ordenado por él, del
Indice de Testamentos del Archivo Histórico de Aguascalientes es Luis
Gerardo Cortez, quien estaba buscando editarlo.

Los datos que tengo suyos son los siguientes (espero que todavía la
dirección de su correo sea la misma):

luisgcortez@mailbanamex.com

Saludos

Guillermo Tovar de Teresa

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jaime R.
Alvarado
Enviado el: Lunes, 14 de Marzo de 2011 06:22 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentos del AHEA

Miguel,
Muchisimas gracias por la informacion. Voy a seguir tus instrucciones.
Respecto al proyecto iniciado por Paco, es una tristeza que quedara
truncado, ya que creo que con el tiempo podriamos tener un material de
referencia bien importante para todos los miembros con raices en
Aguascalientes. Se que Angelina, asi com otros miembros de NR estariamos
interesados a dar marcha adelante con ese proyecto.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Mi buen amigo Luis Gerardo Cortez dirige ahora una revista que se llama El
Positivo. Fue encargado del AHEA y se le localiza de varias maneras:
http://www.facebook.com/elpositivo2009
http://twitter.com/elpositivo2009
http://groups.google.com/group/elpositivo

Su revista virtual tiene la siguiente dirección:

http://elpositivo2009.wordpress.com/category/luis-gerardo-cortez/

Luis Gerardo tiene concluido el nutrido y útil Indice de Testamentos del
Archivo de Aguascalientes. Ese trabajo es de una enorme utilidad, pues estoy
seguro de que si Arturo Ramos lo incorpora a Nuestros Ranchos, muchos de sus
miembros encontrarán información extraordinaria, que nos ayudará a
enriquecer nuestra historia familiar.

Le dará mucho gusto recibir diversas comunicaciones de miembros de Nuestros
Ranchos, para animarlo a que aporte ese valiosísimo índice, que yo ya he
consultado y me ha resultado de una gran ayuda, pues figuran los testamentos
de muchísimos antepasados de la región en los siglos XVII-XIX (Romo de
Vivar, Tiscareño, Ruíz de Esparza, Muñoz de Hermosillo y muchísimos otros).

Su consulta es imprescindible, pues los nombres de los hijos de una misma
pareja aparecen con cinco o seis apellidos diferentes, lo que crea infinitas
confusiones y con la consulta de los testamentos se aclara todo.

Saludos

Guillermo Tovar de Teresa

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jaime R.
Alvarado
Enviado el: Lunes, 14 de Marzo de 2011 06:22 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentos del AHEA

Miguel,
Muchisimas gracias por la informacion. Voy a seguir tus instrucciones.
Respecto al proyecto iniciado por Paco, es una tristeza que quedara
truncado, ya que creo que con el tiempo podriamos tener un material de
referencia bien importante para todos los miembros con raices en
Aguascalientes. Se que Angelina, asi com otros miembros de NR estariamos
interesados a dar marcha adelante con ese proyecto.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Hello

Just wanted to say I came across this post, tried it and it worked (I looked up the testament of Antonio Romo) - so for others who are relatively new to the list (I joined in 2012), this is a way in to testaments filed in Aguascalientes in the 1600's and 1700's.

Thanks Miguel Beltran Romo!

Regards,
Denise Fastrup (currently searching for marriage of Raphael Romo and Raphaela Aguilar)

Comentario

Hola, interesante el asunto, alguna otra forma de consultar testamento, si se desconoce la fecha y sólo el nombre del que testa, cómo es la mecánica, ya le trate con varias variables y nada. el que testa es Francisco Lopez del Corral ( Fco Lopez Portillo del Corral) a su esposa Teodocia Martínez de Sotomayor.
Muchas Gracias
Javier Gonzalez L.P.
Durango Dgo.

Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor de Hermosillo, ca 1665

Leonor de Hermosillo sale en el padron de Jalos de 1650 con la edad de 9 en la estancia del Br.

Comentarios

Comentario

Discúlpame por no ser específico. Sólo que Martha Gómez mencionó que Leonor de Hermosillo o Rubio hija de Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo casó dos veces Manuel Gómez de Mendoza y Pedro Franco de Paredes, sólo tengo que casó Pedro no Manuel. Es porque pregunté si podía compartir lo que tiene para que lo podamos revisar.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

Hola a todos,

Hay otra leonor de Hermosillo hija de un Hermano de Leonor de Hermosillo que se llamo Cristobal Munoz de Hermosillo  y esa otra Leonor se caso con un sr. llamado Manuel Gomez de Mendoza y tambien se caso son un Pedro Franco de Paredes .

en conclusion esta Leonor viene siendo sobrina de la Leonor que se caso con Miguel Gutierrez.

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: mgomez42@comcast.net
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 9:10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor de        Hermosillo, ca 1665

Pienso que debe ser hija de Leonor de Hermosillo y de Miguel Gutierrez Rubio. porque la mama debe de haber nacido como en 1590 cuando mucho porque el papa que yo tengo registrado de Leonor de Hermosillo la esposa de Miguel Gutierrez  lo bautizaron el 8 de julio de 1561 entonces no podria ser papa de una nina de 9  en 1650 porque tendria que haberla tenido como a los 80?

----- Original Message -----
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 4:53:31 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor de        Hermosillo, ca 1665

Leonor de Hermosillo sale en el padron de Jalos de 1650 con la edad de 9 en la estancia del Br. Lazaro Gutierrez de Hermosillo y de Leonor de Hermosillo madre del Bachiller y esposa de Miguel Gutierrez Rubio. Esta Leonor aparece en los padrones de Jalos en los 1670s como esposa de Diego de la Mota y Padilla. Depues de la muerte del Br. Lazaro Gtz de Hermosillo, dueño de la estancia de la Nascapiloya (cercas de San Miguel el Alto, Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo su hermano y Diego aparecen como herederos del bachiller (esta informacion la herencia la encontre en una carta de poder en los protocolos de Jose L. Ramirez en 1688 y 1689).

Mi pregunta para todos ustedes, sera Leonor de Hermosillo hija de Leonor de Hermosillo y Miguel Gutierrez Rubio o hija del Bachiller Lazaro?

Comentario

Estimados Martha:

Es verdad Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo casó a una Leonor Rubio tuvieron por lo menos una hija
también llamada Leonor Rubio que yo sepa nunca fue conocida como Hermosillo. Esta falleció 15
de febrero de 1692 en San Francisco de Tepatitlán. Esta Leonor, segunda de su nombre casó a
Pedro Franco de Paredes quien se bautizo en Silao el 18 de junio de 1624. Estos tuvieron otra
Leonor Rubio y por lo menos una nieta llamada Leonor Ana Rubio. Esta línea se vínculo muy
cercano con los Flores de la Torre, Torre-Ledesma, Covarrubias, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, etc.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Buenos días Sr. Tovar de Teresa, me gustaría obtener al igual que Daniel Méndez del Camino una copia del documento que menciona que Diego de la Mota Padilla es hijo de Diego de la Mota Padilla "El Tuerto", ya que creo que desciendo de el por parte de su hijo Felipe de Jesús de la Mota Padilla casado en Tepatitlán en 1700 con Juana González de Hermosillo.

En el registro de matrimonio dice que Felipe de Jesús de la Mota Padilla es hijo del Capitán Diego de la Mota Padilla, vecino de Santa María de los Ángeles, pero no menciona a su madre, además no se donde se encuentra Santa María de los Ángeles, al principio pensé que sería Santa María de los Lagos, pero no lo se.

Si me puede proporcionar dicho documento se lo agradeceré muchísimo.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Estimado don Jorge Luis Rodríguez,

Me da mucho gusto saludarlo. Lo que tenía era el apunte en mi libreta y le
envié a Daniel Pérez Camino el original de mi copia y la transcripción que
tenía en la carpeta de algún archivo que no encuentro, pues creo que lo pasé
a un USB que estuve buscando hoy a mediodía y no lo encuentro. Lo más fácil
es pedirle a Daniel que le envíe una copia de lo que le envié, ya que no
creo que tenga ningún inconveniente en hacerlo, pues es una persona muy
amable y servicial.

En todo caso seguiré buscando en mis memorias de archivo.

Saludos cordiales

GTT

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: Domingo, 13 de Marzo de 2011 12:15 p.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor
de Hermosillo, ca 1665

Buenos días Sr. Tovar de Teresa, me gustaría obtener al igual que Daniel
Méndez del Camino una copia del documento que menciona que Diego de la Mota
Padilla es hijo de Diego de la Mota Padilla "El Tuerto", ya que creo que
desciendo de el por parte de su hijo Felipe de Jesús de la Mota Padilla
casado en Tepatitlán en 1700 con Juana González de Hermosillo.

En el registro de matrimonio dice que Felipe de Jesús de la Mota Padilla es
hijo del Capitán Diego de la Mota Padilla, vecino de Santa María de los
Ángeles, pero no menciona a su madre, además no se donde se encuentra Santa
María de los Ángeles, al principio pensé que sería Santa María de los Lagos,
pero no lo se.

Si me puede proporcionar dicho documento se lo agradeceré muchísimo.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Muchas gracias Sr. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, no se preocupe, me pondré en contacto con Daniel, es un gran amigo y tenemos mucha comunicación sobre el tema, así que le pediré a el, el dato del que me habla.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Estimado Jorge:

Ya te envire los scans del testamento de Luis Padilla Davila, disculpa mi tardeza
la vida ha sido difil y complicado. Le doy todo la gracias al gran Guillermo
Tovar de Teresa para tomar el tiempo en proporcionarme la copia. Aprecio
su amistad.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Estimados compañeros:

Español:
Subí los imágenes del testamento de un antepasado quizás de todos nosotros lo de Luis Padilla Dávila. Este registro importantísimo fue proporcionado por el Sr. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, me lo envió hace meses. Entendí hoy que me envió el original de lo que tenía. No siento que es justo que sólo yo puedo ver esta información. Es porque decidí a compartitlo con todos. Lo podáis ver bajo Reference Materials, pienso que es el último opción.

Ser más directo aquí está el enlace:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19335

English:
Today I uploaded the images of the will of an ancestor who we all probably share some kind of kinship Luis Padilla Dávila. This important record was given to me by Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, he sent it to me months ago. I learned today that he sent me the original copy he had. I feel it is not fair that I can only access this information, thus I decided to share it on Nuestros Rnchos for the benefit of other researchers. You can find it under Reference Materials, I believe it is the last option.

You can also follow the direct link:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19335

Saludos cordiales,

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

I am looking for information on:
Josepha Flores que era difunta el 12 de Octubre de 1645 cuando testó el
padre de ella Don Hernán Flores de la Torre.

I need to know : Josepha FLores con quien caso?
Gracias
Sylvia H Corona

2011/3/13 Daniel Méndez Camino

>
> Estimados Martha:
>
> Es verdad Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo casó a una Leonor Rubio tuvieron
> por lo menos una hija
> también llamada Leonor Rubio que yo sepa nunca fue conocida como
> Hermosillo. Esta falleció 15
> de febrero de 1692 en San Francisco de Tepatitlán. Esta Leonor, segunda de
> su nombre casó a
> Pedro Franco de Paredes quien se bautizo en Silao el 18 de junio de 1624.
> Estos tuvieron otra
> Leonor Rubio y por lo menos una nieta llamada Leonor Ana Rubio. Esta línea
> se vínculo muy
> cercano con los Flores de la Torre, Torre-Ledesma, Covarrubias, Gómez
> Hurtado de Mendoza, etc.
>
> Daniel Méndez Camino
>

Comentario

Sylvia,

Who was Hernan Flores de la Torre's wife? I have 2 Hernans.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvia H Corona"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 12:31:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor de Hermosillo, ca 1665

I am looking for information on:
Josepha Flores que era difunta el 12 de Octubre de 1645 cuando testó el
padre de ella Don Hernán Flores de la Torre.

I need to know : Josepha FLores con quien caso?
Gracias
Sylvia H Corona

2011/3/13 Daniel Méndez Camino

>
> Estimados Martha:
>
> Es verdad Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo casó a una Leonor Rubio tuvieron
> por lo menos una hija
> también llamada Leonor Rubio que yo sepa nunca fue conocida como
> Hermosillo. Esta falleció 15
> de febrero de 1692 en San Francisco de Tepatitlán. Esta Leonor, segunda de
> su nombre casó a
> Pedro Franco de Paredes quien se bautizo en Silao el 18 de junio de 1624.
> Estos tuvieron otra
> Leonor Rubio y por lo menos una nieta llamada Leonor Ana Rubio. Esta línea
> se vínculo muy
> cercano con los Flores de la Torre, Torre-Ledesma, Covarrubias, Gómez
> Hurtado de Mendoza, etc.
>
>  Daniel Méndez Camino
>

Comentario

Sylvia,

Dice Guillermo Garmendia Leal en "Fundadores de Nueva Galicia" [Tomo I
Guadalajara, pp 91-95] que Josepha Flores de la Torre era esposa del Capitán
Diego Vázquez de Buendía. Josepha era hija de Hernán Flores de la Torre y
Anna Alvarez de Sandi.

Saludos,

BILL FIGUEROA

Comentario

exactamente de aqui tome la informacion, por eso es que quiero estudiar que
esto sea cierto y quien era esta Josepha FLores y donde quedo su descendia
si la hubo, en una de mis notas tengo que quedo en Aguascalientes.
Tuviron hijos Diego Vazquez de Buendia y Josepha?

EL personaje de mi interes es Diego Vazquez de Buendia

Gracias
Sylvia

2011/4/10 Bill Figueroa

> Sylvia,
>
> Dice Guillermo Garmendia Leal en "Fundadores de Nueva Galicia" [Tomo I
> Guadalajara, pp 91-95] que Josepha Flores de la Torre era esposa del Capitán
> Diego Vázquez de Buendía. Josepha era hija de Hernán Flores de la Torre y
> Anna Alvarez de Sandi.
>
> Saludos,
>
> BILL FIGUEROA

Comentario

Sylvia,

No tengo ninguna información adicional de Diego Vázquez de Buendía y Josepha
Flores de la Torre, pero dudo que hayan dejado descendencia en
Aguascalientes. Hasta la fecha no he encontrado ninguna información de
ellos en los muchísimos registros parroquiales y civiles, libros, y otros
documentos históricos por los que he pasado en los últimos 10 años. Sin
embargo, puedo decirte con certeza que su hermano Hernán Flores de la Torre
casó con Juana de Aguilar y Salado, aka Juana de Siordia, el 4 de octubre de
1654 en la Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes. Talvez encuentres
algo de Diego y Josepha en los archivos de Juchipila o directamente en los
de Guadalajara.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Si existe varios Vasquez de Buendia en Aguascalientes que casaron y bautizaron hijos.
Pero no he podido entrocar los con Diego Vasquez de Buendia, posiblemente sus hijos.
Tambien ya para el siglo XVIII y XIX puedes encontrar algunos Vasquez de Buendia
en Jalostotitlan, LAgos de MOreno, Sombrerete y Villa Cos los que he encontrado.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Yo tengo un archivo que habla de Diego Vazquez de Bundia casado con Maria de la Torre y tuvieron como hijos a Juan de la Torre, Diego Vazquez y Nicolas de la Torre que venden un sitio de ganado llamado la junta de los Rios en Colotlan, Jalisco en 1672 al Cap. Francisco Lopez, teniente protector de la frontera de San Luis Colotlan.

Comentario

Martha:

Podias compartir mas informacion a cuanto ese Manuel Gomez de Mendoza quien caso a la Leonor antemencionada?
Solo tenia que estuvo casada con el Franco de Paredes. Gracias antemano.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Hay que tener cuidado, hubo varias Leonores de Hermosillo. La primera fue hija de Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Ana Maria Muñoz. Esta Leonor tuvo posiblemente una hija ,la esposa de Diego de la Mota y Padilla, y despues existieron varias sobrinas y nietas con el mismo nombre.

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Me parece muy confusa esta pregunta.

¿A que Manuel Gómez de Mendoza se refiere?

Yo tengo a Manuel Gómez-Hurtado de Mendoza y Torres de Valdivia casado con
Francisca Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Lomelín, padres de Antonia, Jerónima y
Joseph. Este último, casado con Juana Franco de Paredes y Lomelín, hija de
Alonso y Margarita, ya referidos en otras comunicaciones. También tengo a
Ana, casada con Juan Antonio Franco de Paredes y Hermosillo, hijo de Pedro y
Leonor (Rama de la Hacienda de El Horno), así como a Juana, mujer delCapitán
Juan Díaz de Sandi. Estos entre otros. ¿Podrían ackarara que se refieren.

Les recomiendo que para comentarios personales y que no sean de interés
general, lo realicen en sus correos personales, pues a los que seguimos
discusiones de fondo quedamos confundidos con estas referencias crípticas.

Saludos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Méndez Camino
Enviado el: Domingo, 13 de Marzo de 2011 09:56 a.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor
de Hermosillo, ca 1665

Martha:

Podias compartir mas informacion a cuanto ese Manuel Gomez de Mendoza quien
caso a la Leonor antemencionada?
Solo tenia que estuvo casada con el Franco de Paredes. Gracias antemano.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Pienso que debe ser hija de Leonor de Hermosillo y de Miguel Gutierrez Rubio. porque la mama debe de haber nacido como en 1590 cuando mucho porque el papa que yo tengo registrado de Leonor de Hermosillo la esposa de Miguel Gutierrez  lo bautizaron el 8 de julio de 1561 entonces no podria ser papa de una nina de 9  en 1650 porque tendria que haberla tenido como a los 80?

----- Original Message -----
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 4:53:31 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla casado con Leonor de        Hermosillo, ca 1665

Leonor de Hermosillo sale en el padron de Jalos de 1650 con la edad de 9 en la estancia del Br. Lazaro Gutierrez de Hermosillo y de Leonor de Hermosillo madre del Bachiller y esposa de Miguel Gutierrez Rubio. Esta Leonor aparece en los padrones de Jalos en los 1670s como esposa de Diego de la Mota y Padilla. Depues de la muerte del Br. Lazaro Gtz de Hermosillo, dueño de la estancia de la Nascapiloya (cercas de San Miguel el Alto, Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo su hermano y Diego aparecen como herederos del bachiller (esta informacion la herencia la encontre en una carta de poder en los protocolos de Jose L. Ramirez en 1688 y 1689).

Mi pregunta para todos ustedes, sera Leonor de Hermosillo hija de Leonor de Hermosillo y Miguel Gutierrez Rubio o hija del Bachiller Lazaro?

Comentario

Segun una eleccion de mayordomo de la Cofradia de las Animas en Jalos, que he paleografiado abajo, dice que Miguel Gtz Rubio murio el 1 Enero de 1652. Este dato da la posibilidad de que Miguel es el padre de Leonor de Hermosillo (II) porque ella tenia aproximadamente 1 a 2 años cuando murio Miguel. El dato que me hace dudar de lo que acabo de escribir es que en la acta de defuncion de Leonor de Hermosillo (I), no se mensiona que Leonor (II) es hija, solo aparecen el Br. Lazaro y Francisco Gtz Rubio como hijos de Miguel Gtz Rubio y Leonor (I). Aqui es donde entra la duda de que Leonor (II) es posiblemente hija del Br. Lazaro. Tendre que buscar el testamento de Lazaro para quitar las dudas.

Paleografia de una eleccion de mayordomo en Cofradia de la Animas del Purgatorio:

"En 26 de Abril 1642 años. Estando el Pe fray Alonso de la mota que al prete (presente) administraba este partido y los cofrades de la cofradía de las Animas unanimes y conformes eligieron por mayordomo a francisco gutierrez de hermosillo de la dha cofradia y por su ayudante y diputado Jhoan Beserra para que usen el dicho officio y el dho Juo Veserra como diputado quien dio qtas (cuentas) desde primero de enero que fue cdo (cuando) murio el dho mayordomo que era Miguel guttz asta oy de 21 de Abril de 642 años y ajustado gasto y resivo quedo (ilegible) con la dicha cofradia y lo firmo el Po fray Alonso y los vesinos
-Padre fr. Alonso de la mota (rúbrica) -Br D. Andres de Estrada Flores (rúbrica)
-D. Andres de estrada y bocanegra (rúbrica) -Juan beserra (rúbrica)"

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Estimado Señores:

Como Martha pienso que es hija de Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio y Leonor de Hermosillo. Nunca he encontrado que el Br. Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo tuvo hijos. Pero si necesitamos encontrar un fuente que lo compruebe primeramente. Necesitaríamos localizar el testamento de Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio. Todavía como mencionó Sergio puede existir la duda. Pero por experiencia personal muchas partidas de defunción sólo menciona los albaceas del difunto vez en cuando encuentro partidas donde menciona todo los hijos muy raro. En este caso los albaceas de don Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio eran sus hijos por seguro los mayores, el Br. don Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo y don Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio. Dichos dueños de sus propias haciendas; la familia Gutiérrez Rubio es conocida en su historia como una familia que era bien establecida en la región.

Según el padrón de Tepatitlán consta que su hermano Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio era dueño de la hacienda del Salto jurisdicción de San Francisco de Tepatitlán unas cinco leguas.

Luego les traigo noticias de los González-Florida.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

Estimados señores:

¿De quién suponen hijo a ese Diego de la Mota Padilla?

Saludos

GTT

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Méndez Camino
Enviado el: Sábado, 12 de Marzo de 2011 04:52 p.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y

Estimado Señores:

Como Martha pienso que es hija de Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio y Leonor de
Hermosillo. Nunca he encontrado que el Br. Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo
tuvo hijos. Pero si necesitamos encontrar un fuente que lo compruebe
primeramente. Necesitaríamos localizar el testamento de Miguel Gutiérrez
Rubio. Todavía como mencionó Sergio puede existir la duda. Pero por
experiencia personal muchas partidas de defunción sólo menciona los albaceas
del difunto vez en cuando encuentro partidas donde menciona todo los hijos
muy raro. En este caso los albaceas de don Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio eran sus
hijos por seguro los mayores, el Br. don Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo y
don Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio. Dichos dueños de sus propias haciendas; la
familia Gutiérrez Rubio es conocida en su historia como una familia que era
bien establecida en la región.

Según el padrón de Tepatitlán consta que su hermano Francisco Gutiérrez
Rubio era dueño de la hacienda del Salto jurisdicción de San Francisco de
Tepatitlán unas cinco leguas.

Luego les traigo noticias de los González-Florida.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

Segun el libro de Jorge Palomino y Cañedo, " Los Padilla de Avila", este Diego de la Mota y Padilla fue hijo de Diego de la Mota "el tuerto" y Jeronima de Arteaga, y nacio en Guadalajara en 2 de marzo de 1633 junto con su hermano mellizo Gabriel. Este Diego "el tuerto" fue hijo natural de Luis Padilla Davila. Luis Padilla Davila a la vez fue hijo de Diego de Padilla Davilla y Ana de la Mota y Vera.

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Gracias Sergio,

Acabo enviar mensaje al grupo y Guillermo Tovar que sospechaba que era hijo de Diego “el tuerto”. Me da risa porque mi sospecho era correcto. Tengo confianza con Jorge Palomino quien extractó bastante en los archivos de Guadalajara.

¿Cómo conseguistes copia del libro que mencionastes?

Gracias antemano como siempre. Tengo otro Diego Mota-Padilla que me entra por los Méndez de Torres, por seguro te dará interés el post que acabo de enviar titulado Méndez de Torres y los Mota Padilla.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

No sospecho que ese Diego era hijo del "Tuerto". Lo confirmé con un
documento cuya copia le envié a Daniel Pérez Camino. El no tenía ninguna
sospecha y no se debe de reir de ello, pues no tenía ni idea del tema.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Méndez Camino
Enviado el: Domingo, 13 de Marzo de 2011 10:33 a.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego de la Mota y Padilla hijo de....

Gracias Sergio,

Acabo enviar mensaje al grupo y Guillermo Tovar que sospechaba que era hijo
de Diego “el tuerto”. Me da risa porque mi sospecho era correcto. Tengo
confianza con Jorge Palomino quien extractó bastante en los archivos de
Guadalajara.

¿Cómo conseguistes copia del libro que mencionastes?

Gracias antemano como siempre. Tengo otro Diego Mota-Padilla que me entra
por los Méndez de Torres, por seguro te dará interés el post que acabo de
enviar titulado Méndez de Torres y los Mota Padilla.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga and María Guadalupe de la Vega y Rivas

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Has anyone heard of this couple before Estaban de Aguiar y Quiroga and
Maria Guadalup de la Vega y Rivas or sometimes just Rivas.

Comentarios

Comentario

thank you Sarod. i just took a look at that on family search, but there's
no sources or anything. do you know where they got that information?

Danny C. Alonso

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:50 PM, wrote:

> On www.Familysearch.org MTJJ-LV2 ID you can search by this ID number or
> name.
> The parents are listed but only two chidren. I have Rivas on my paternal
> line
> supposedly, they are from Guanajuato not found one of my Rivas. hope you
> find
> yours. ​
>

Comentario

thank you. i'll see if i can contact him. I've never heard of Fernando
Aguias and Augustina Ramires. it doesnt look like theres any information on
him in family search.

Danny C. Alonso

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:46 PM, wrote:

> It looks like it was created in 2012 by a user named barajas. when you open
> up the vital information you will see the name and if you tap it a contact
> address is listed. I don't know if it is still valid since it was 2012.
>

Comentario

I was surprised that there were no sources since I had seen them but it was late and I decided to wait till today to see what happen to them when I merged several records. I went to ALL CHANGES and saw the sources there and it said they were attached so I tapped it to view and they showed up on MTJJ-LV2. On the 27th they are upgrading the system for 24 hours. I have had trouble with records not attached to both records when merging a wedding or the parents did not get attached so I have to go to each record and open the view record (it shows that it has been merged but it doesn't show up) so I have to review attachements and it clearly shows it is is not added. Maybe this problem will be corrected with the upgrade. there are 6 sources
​

Comentario

Hi Danny,

I was just looking thorugh the 1684 Padron for Real de Santa Ana; seems to be the homebase of the Aguiar y Quiroga. I don't see Esteban, since it may be from before he was born, but maybe he's linked to these people:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DX92-HQ?i=211&wc=3JMN-GP8

I don't know which modern state Real de Santa Ana is in.

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Danny,

Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga and María Guadalupe de la Vega y Rivas are my 9th great grandparents. I'm not sure what the source is, but there are several possible Aguiar y Quiroga's in the same time frame that I guess could be the parents. I'm guessing the Fernando Aguias and Agustina Ramires that the Family Search tree mentions as the parents, is actually Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga and Agustina Arias who married in San Juan de la Vega, Guanajuato in 1654 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GT3-K74). I've looked at several of these couples but never found any real proof as confirmation. I actually thought Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga and Agustina Arias seemed a little old to be his parents when I first looked. I spent some time looking at Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga and María Guadalupe de la Vega y Rivas a few years ago, but, never found a marriage record for them. There is a baptism in 1722 for their son Joseph Agustin Aguiar, that says his madrina, Doña Ana Sanchez de Medina, is also his grandmother (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-539Q-Z6)

I think the time frame makes Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga and Agustina Arias  better candidates for grandparents. A few years after Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga and Agustina Arias, there is also a Don Alvaro de Aguiar y Quiroga and Doña Maria de Ledesma that were married in Guanajuato (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGFQ-9SLK). I've come across this Don Alvaro de Aguiar y Quiroga on several records in Aguascalientes (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-68J3-44L), although, he is also a better candidate for grandparent considering the time frame. I estimate Don Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga was born about 1700 or maybe a couple years earlier. Since, Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga and Agustina Arias were married in 1654, they were most likely born around 1635 or earlier and, since, Alvaro de Aguiar y Quiroga and Maria de Ledesma were married in 1659, they were probably born around 1640 or earlier. If those dates are close, then both possible mothers would be about 60 and 65 years old when they gave birth to Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga. Not very likely. It's possible I'm way off and Esteban de Aguiar y Quiroga was born 20 years earlier. That would make these possible parents better candidates, but, still, without sources, it's just a guess. If Hernando de Aguiar y Quiroga is the father, then the grandmother Doña Ana Sanchez de Medina would be on the maternal side. Really, Don Alvaro and Don Hernando are equally probable or improbable as parents. There is also a Don Pedro de Aguiar y Quiroga that appears on records in Aguascalientes (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-68J3-44F), who may be related, but I'm not aware of who is wife is. The last possible candidates are also from Guanajuato, Juan de Aguiar y Quiroga and Melchora Nuñez de Ledesma aka Melchora de Aguirre y Ledesma. This couple had children almost to 1680. All of these couples are possible, although, I've always felt the last couple fit better, but, I actually don't know. Hopefully, you will have better luck.

Chris

Utah Chapter NGGS

I am working to organize a chapter here in Utah for the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society. Anyone interested in being a part of this get in contact with me.

Comentarios

Velasco or Villalbazo

Hello, is there a connection between the names Velasco and Villalbazo?

Comentarios

Comentario

I made a mistake in typing this earlier. I had written Maria Gertrudis Paz y Luna but It should read:

Maria Gertrudis Paz y Lugo is the daughter of Francisco Paz + Josepha De la Cruz Lugo

Sorry,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Maria Urzula Velasco
Gender Female
Husband Bernardo Aseves
Son Jose Manuel Aseves Velasco
Name Jose Manuel Aseves Velasco
Gender Male
Christening Date 04 Jan 1816
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Bernardo Aseves
Mother's Name Maria Urzula Velasco
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGDY-C9V : 12 December 2014), Maria Urzula Velasco in entry for Jose Manuel Aseves Velasco, 04 Jan 1816; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,941.

Franco. Xabier Villavaso
mentioned in the record of Franco. Xabier Villavaso and Lorenza Josefa Luna
Name Franco. Xabier Villavaso
Spouse's Name Lorenza Josefa Luna
Event Date 16 Feb 1779
Event Place Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZJV-4XV : 16 July 2015), Franco. Xabier Villavaso and Lorenza Josefa Luna, 16 Feb 1779; citing Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,985

Comentario

Dear Rayna,

Maria Ursula Velasco Villalbaso (Villabaso Luna y Velasco) and Bernardo (Fernando) Aseves are the parents of Jose Manuel Aseves

Maria Ursula Villabaso y Luna Velasco is the daughter of Francisco Xavier Villavaso (Velasco in baptismal record but it may be a mistake by the scribe and the Velasco comes from Lorezas mother.) (indio) and Lorenza Josefa Luna y Velasco (española)

Lorenza Josefa Luna y Velasco is the daughter of Jose Anastacio de Luna and Francisca Geronima Velasco

Bernardo Aseves is the son of Juan de San Pedro Aseves and Maria Gertrudis Lugo

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Thank you for your replies and your help. I am still a little confused. The reason is because of conflicting baptismal records where everything appears to agree, except for one little detail. For example, I found a baptismal record that appears to be a younger brother of Manuel, Jose Francisco de la Trinidad Asebes Villalbazo. This is Image 166 Film 224942. It shows Franciscos parents to be Bernardo Asebes and Maria Urzula Villalbazo. It shows the paternal gtandparents to be Pedro Asebes and Maria Gertrudis Paz (not Lugo). The maternal grandparents are Francisco Xabier Villalbazo and Maria Josefa Dias (not Lorenza Josefa Luna).

On the baptismal record of Jose Trinidad Bailon Asebes Villalbazo, whom I believe to be another brother, the only difference in parentage if the maternal grandmother whom it shows as Maria Francisca Dias. Image 266 Film 224942

Again, thank you!

Rayna Babette Allen

Comentario

Dear Rayna,

This should help explain some of the differences in names:

Josepha Lorenza Diaz Velasco is the daughter of Jose Diaz and Francisca Velasco

Juan de San Pedro Asveves is the son of Salvador Aseves and Michaela Serrano y Luna

Maria Gertrudis Paz y Luna is the daughter of Francisco Paz + Josepha De la Cruz Lugo

Micaela Serrano y Luna is the daughter of Juan Serrano and Efigenia de Luna

Salvador Aseves is the son of Salvador Aseves and Ana de Diaz Contreras

Francisco de la Paz (junior)is the Son of another Francisco Xavier de la Paz (senior) and Catharina de la Meza

Josepha de la Cruz Lugo is the Daughter of Antonio de Lugo and Maria Vicenta

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Oh my goodness! This would take me months (at least) to come up with this! I am grateful beyond words!

So it seems to me, that the maternal name used in these baptismal records is somewhat arbitrary. Is that correct, or am I missing something really important here?

Thank you!

Babette

Comentario

Dear Rayna,

The use of different surnames was common in those times. It makes it frustrating at times but This practice also provides clues as to the ancestry.

Your welcome, I'm glad I could help,
R.A. Ricci

Muñoz y Martinez de Orozco

Ventura Muñoz and Rita Martinez de Orozco fathers of Santiago Muñoz married with Andrea Solís.
This two couple were in Villa de Cos, Zacatecas from 1755 to 1815.

Comentarios

Comentario

Miguel, the relationship is complicated, but Ventura and Refugio are not brother and sister. I believe they may be primos, but cannot yet prove it.

Rita is Anacleto's tia. Her father is my 7th great grandfather

I've been working on this for almost 18 years and have marriage records, baptism records, dispensia's and more for all these families. Everything I have is documented. Ventura is the brother of my 5th great grandfather.

I know Ventura had at least 8 children and I am aware of 3 sons, Joaquin, Santiago, and Joseph. Unless I missed one, you must be a descendant of one of these men.

It's too much to put here. Please contact me directly at rm1jr@yahoo.com if you want to learn more.

Pedro Triana, 1800-1882 Juan Aldama, Zacatecas

Me llamo Victor Eduardo Hernandez Triana​ de Colonia Hidalgo, Sombrerete, Zacatecas, y estoy formando el árbol genealógico de
mis familias. Me estoy enfocando en el apellido Triana, y los apellidos de el lado de mi madre.

Comentarios

Comentario

There is a Martin Triana Perez with a picture of a soldier not sure if his is your family of brothers you are looking for.

These records can be located in www.Familysearch.org
278T-3VR this number is to instantly locate the martin or you can type the name birth around 1867 in Auza, Zacatecas married 14 FEB 1885 with first wife. The record has 6 wifes total not sure if they are or how accurate the records are.

There is a Felix Triana KHMN-DJC born abt 1813 married to Encarnacion Estrada. Nothing else in the record started in 2012.
​
​

Comentario

My name is Victor Eduardo Hernandez Triana Hidalgo Colonia, Sombrerete, Zacatecas, and I am forming the family tree of my families. I'm focusing on the surname Triana, and my maternal surnames.

Surnames I've been focusing on are:
San Miguel del Mezquita​l(Juan Aldama)
Miguel Auza
Sain Alto
Sombrerete
in the state of Zacatecas.

Some clues that I have about the Triana second generation family, two brothers, the
father of the General Martin Guzman Triana, Exiquio Triana, and the father of Colonel Emiliano Gomez Triana, Gregorio Triana were relatives of my grandfather Quirino Triana. It is rumored that they were first cousins. Martin Guzman Triana, Emiliano Gomez Triana, and Cipriano Triana were first cousins, perhaps second cousins to my grandfather Felix Triana Vidaña in someway. Does anyone else know how they are relatives?

I also want to find out is if any of you have more information about who was Pedro Triana, husband of Maria Rudecinda Vitela. Their children were Quirino Triana Vitela, and Maria del Refugio Triana Vitela.

If you are a relative of the Rueda, Bueno, or Magallanes families of Sain Alto, Juan Aldama / Miguel Auza Zacatecas, any information would be appreciated. If you want information about my research of these families, let me know which family and I will provide it.

Here is the list of my descendants in the Triana Family. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/eduardotriana

Comentario

Victor,

I looked on family search and there doesn't seem to really be anything related to this family. maybe they're not indexed in this area yet. you may have to guess when they were born and married and then start to look for their marriage and birth records page by page.

Danny C. Alonso

Informacion Matrimonial

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Comentarios

Comentario

So the bann is the public announcement of the pending marriage (nowadays posted in boards outside the churches, previously probably announced verbally), the license is the permit for the pending marriage, and the contract is the document signed by bride and groom after the marriage. So the Información Matrimonial is more like the license since they get information on the bride and groom in order to see if there is no problem with the pending marriage. The Dispensa would also be a license if there was indeed some problem. The marriage record would be the contract and many times they mention the dates of the bann announcements (usually on 3 different dates before the marriage).
In Mexico sometimes they refer to a divorce as the dissolution of the marriage contract.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

It usually means testimony from both parties and also witnesses. Information as to their marital status: ages, parents' names, if eligible with Catholic previous rite requirements, single status or widow or widower, if they are good Catholics / citizens. Also if and how the prospective bride or groom may be related to each. Witnesses also attest to their status and if they are eligible to marry each other. Often there are "troncos" (pedigree trees) if they are cousins. etc.

Nicolas Garcia Reyes

I am having a difficult time trying to locate Nicolas Garcia Reyes baptism, I have his matrimonio at Asuncion de Maria Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, 1846-1853, image 667 of 773= In this image it sta

Comentarios

Comentario

Here is a summary of the data we have collected:

Nicolas Garcia is the son of Jose Camilo Garcia (b.1810) and Brigida Reyes (Ruvalcaba) (b.1801) (m.28 Jul 1835)

Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilera is the son of Jose Maria Garcia and Maria Vicenta Aguilar Vocanegra

Maria Vicenta Aguilar Vocanegra is the daughter of Jose Dionicio (Leonicio) Aguilar and Eusebia Vocanegra .

Jose Maria Garcia is the son of Antonio Garcia and Eusebia Martinez according to a baptismal record for Jose Andres Garcia (c. 7/Feb/1816) Aguascalientes

according to another document Jose Maria Garcia is the son of
Jose Bartolo Garcia (Different from your Antonio Garcia above)y Maria Margarita Salas (also different from your Eusebia Martinez above)

Brigida Reyes (aka Brigida Ruvalvaba) (b.1801) is the daughter Jose Antonio Reyes and Josefa Gonzalez-Ruvalcaba Lozano according to a baptismal record. In her marriage record she is the daughter of Ygnacio Ruvalcaba and Josefa Reyes

Jose Antonio Reyes is married to Maria Josefa Gonzalez -Ruvalcaba y Lozano (m.30/Aug/1794) Aguascalientes these may be the parents of Brigida Reyes (Ruvalcaba)

Since we have two different primary sources identifying different paternal grandparents, I am guessing that one couple is the biological parents of Jose Maria Garcia and the second set may have been his adoptive parents. I am theorizing that his parents passed away and he was taken in by family. Just a theory

Comentario

Hi Chris, I have documented information on NICOLAS GARCIA and BRIGIDA REYES. Bautismos 1841-1842 IMAGE 351 of 481 Asuncion de Maria Aguascalientes. This is where I am having a difficult time trying to decipher the Birth of Nicolas Garcia. En la Villa de Aguascalientes el veinte de Marzo de mil ochocientos cuarenta dos, El Padre Do Monico Rangel de Licentia Parrochi Bautiso Solamnemte y puso los Santo Oleos a MARIA PATRICIA que nacio el dia Diez y Site a las Ocho de La Manana, Barrio el Salite, hija legitima de Camilo Garcia y Brigida Reyes, Abuelos Paternos Jose Maria Garcia y Vicenta Bocanegra, Abuelos Maternos; ANTONIO REYES y JOSEFA LOSANO Padrinos Jose Maria Paredes Y Josefa Bocanegra. You said in your reply that Brigida's father surname was Robalcaba and her mother was Josefa Reyes. Is it possible that you are describing a total different Brigida Reyes. I m still at a loss regarding my gg grandfather, Nicolas Garcia location of his Bautismo. can anybody shed some light to this subject. Garcias Primos

Arturo

Comentario

Dear Arturo

Jose Maria Garcia is the son of Antonio Garica and Eusebia Martinez
Maria Vicenta Aguilar (aka Vicenta Bocanegra) is the daughter of Leonicio Aguilar and Eusebia Bocanegra.
Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar is the son of Jose Maria Garcia and Maria Vicenta Aguilar Bocanegra

Name Jose Maria Garcia
Gender Male
Wife Maria Vicenta Aguilar
Son Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar
Name Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar
Gender Male
Christening Date 19 Jul 1809
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Maria Garcia
Mother's Name Maria Vicenta Aguilar
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMMC-S9T : 12 December 2014), Jose Maria Garcia in entry for Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar, 19 Jul 1809; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,455.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Jose Antonio Reyes
mentioned in the record of Jose Antonio Reyes and Maria Josefa Gonzalez Lozano
Name Jose Antonio Reyes
Spouse's Name Maria Josefa Gonss. Lozano
Event Date 30 Aug 1794
Event Place El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHP1-D2Z : 14 July 2015), Jose Antonio Reyes and Maria Josefa Gonss., 30 Aug 1794; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,833

////:::::///////////:::::::::////////////::::::::::://///////////::::::::::::////////

Good luck,
R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Hi R.A. Ricci, appreciate what you are doing. Here what I have on Camilo Garcia Aguilar; Had this particular document for the past 7 years, but have not had much luck breaking through this wall.. BAUTISMOS de CASTAS 1807-1812; Aguascalientes Asuncion de Maria;
Enla Yglesia Parroquial de esta Villa de Aguascalientes el Diez y Nueve del mes de Julio de mil ochocientos y nueve anos. el Presbiterio Don Eufracio Carrillo como teniente del Presbiterio Don Ygnacio Jose Rincon Gallardo Cura Ynterino baptize solamnemte y puse los Santos Oleos y Chrisma a JOSE CAMILO YNDIO, que nacioen esta Villa dia quince del corriente mes Hijo legitimo de Jose Maria Garcia y de Maria Vicenta Aguilar vecinos de esta dicha Villa. Sus Abuelos Paternos Jose Bartolo Garcia (Different from your Antonio Garcia above)y Maria Margarita Salas ( also different from your Eusebia Martinez above) y Maternos Dionicio Aguilar (different first name from your Leonicio above) y Maria Eucebia Vocanegra.

Am I in the right place or am I off the mark? Not the brightest bulb, so if you do not mind could you direct me to the Bautismos where you located the different named Abuelos etc, or is this the document I need? sorry for being a bother, this part of the family has cause me many hours without much progress. As wellas Nicolas Garcia Baitismo. Gracias

Arturo

Comentario

Dear Arturo,

I believe that Chris is right, we are dealing with the same Brigida, and she has Gonzalez Ruvalcaba Lozano and Reyes in her ancestry. Where I disagree with Chris is where she gets the ruvalcaba from. I am only guessing but I think she gets it from the Gonzalez-Ruvalcaba y Lozano of the family from her maternal grandmother.

Jose Dionicio Aguilar is the same person as Leonicio Aguilar. I have often seen Dionicio and Leonicio used interchangeably.

There is however an issue between the abuelo paternos that you name and the ones that I name. They are not the same people.

Please check out the baptismal certificate for Jose Andres Garcia

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8P1-V3F

Image 483 out of 502
Date 7/Feb1816
Aguascalientes

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DBGS-VL7?i=482&wc=M6QX-NPD…
Vicenta Aguilar
Gender Female
Husband Jose Maria Garcia
Son Jose Andres Garcia
Name Jose Andres Garcia y Aguilar
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 07 Feb 1816
Event Place Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Jose M'A Garcia
Mother's Name Vicenta Aguilar
CITING THIS RECORD

México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8P1-V3N : 27 July 2015), Vicenta Aguilar in entry for Jose Andres Garcia, 07 Feb 1816; citing Baptism, Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico, parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic church parishes, Aguascalientes).

Your welcome,

R.A. Ricci

Comentario

Dear Arturo and Chris,

Since we have two different primary sources identifying different paternal grandparents, I am guessing that one couple is the biological parents of Jose Maria Garcia and the second set may have been his adoptive parents. I am theorizing that his parents passed away and he was taken in by family. Just a theory.

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Hi Arturo,

I actually am not taking a position on where the Robalcava name comes from, I'm just reading the record. If it comes from her mother, than one of the records is wrong, but, the Brigida's are definitely the same. The problem is the multiple names. I actually am not sure that all the errors are from the various records, some may come from the family itself. There's too many different names for them to all be mistakes of the priest or the scribe. I'm thinking something else may be going on here. Possibly, Brigida's parentage was not fully known, or came to light at a later date, or some other scenario. Also, now I'm not sure any of these names are correct. It's unusual not to find any records for names in Aguascalientes, which is pretty well indexed. There doesn't appear to be an Antonio Reyes and Josefa Lozano in this time frame or an Ygnacio Robalcava and Josefa Reyes either. Here's a similarly named couple to the Brigida Robalcava record, it's for a Eustaquio Robalcava and Josefa Reyes, both Indios. Eustaquio and Ygnacio, could be confused by the scribe. This couple fits the time frame, perhaps you should look at them:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MCS-B73

Chris

Comentario

Hi R.A. Ricci, well if this is true, it puts a different spin on things. My certificate of Camilo Garcia, indicates that he is YNDIO, the question is, Jose Andres and Camilo Garcia are both hijos legitimos of Jose Maria Garcia and Vicenta
Aguilar. However on his Bautismo, dated July 19, 1809, Asuncion de Maria Aguascalientes, Bautismos de castas 1807-1812, Image 272 and 273, lists his parents as:

Father: Jose Maria Garcia
Mother: Maria Vicenta Aguilar
Abuelos Paternos: Jose Bartolo Garcia y Maria Margarita Salas
Abuelos Maternos: Jose Dionicio Aguilar y Maria Eucevia Vocanegra

According to your research: Parents of Jose Maria Garcia are:
Antonio Garcia and Eusebia Martinez, info extracted from Bautismo of Jose Andres Garcia, Feb. 7, 1816 Image 483 of 502 Espanol.

The problems are, Camilo is caste as Yndio.
Jose Andres as Espanol
Camilo's Abuelos are Jose Bartolo Garcia y Maria Margarita Salas
as indicated in his bautismo July 19, 1809. This period seems to indicate that the parents of Jose Maria Garcia were Jose bartolo Garcia and Maria Margarita Salas.

Six years after the birth of Camilo Garcia a brother is born, named Jose Andres Garcia.Problems: Racial casting, Espanol and different set of Abuelos Paternos;
Antonio Garcia and Eusebia Martinez.

The question is was Camilo an Yndio and if so was Jose Maria or Maria Vicenta Aguilar Yndio/Yndia or both?

If Jose Maria Garcia was orphaned and his relative Antonio Garcia and Eucebia both espanoles or was there an Yndio/Yndia or mestizo/mestiza among this set of parents.

What makes this very interesting, is that the Garcia clan comes from a long line of classical musicians, starting with Nicolas Garcia and two of his sons well known filamornicos, Jose Angel Garcia Macias (mi maria) and Rafael Garcia Macias and his grandsons Ricardo Garcia Mendoza and Antonio Garcia Mendoza, this family was well respected in Aguascalientes.

So now the questions are; was Camilo Yndio, is my certificate incorrect, is Jose Bartolo Garcia and Maria Margarita Salas an erroneous entries.

Gracias, Arturo

Comentario

Arturo, Rick,

This is the first time I've come across a family that has used this many different names. It makes it very difficult to track down. Here's more names for you. Camilo Garcia is the son of Jose Maria Salas and Vicenta Aguilar. Jose Maria Salas and Vicenta Aguilar were married on 1 October 1808. Jose Maria Salas is the natural born son of Margarita Salas. Vicenta Aguilar is the daughter of Dionicio Aguilar and Eusebia Lopez, another new apellido.

Marriage of Jose Maria Salas and Vicenta Aguilar:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6P83-8V6

Chris

Comentario

I would agree, however, I have documents through bautismos and matrimonios that discount this theory. Jose Maria was a very common first and middle name during those periods. My ancestry documented history begins with my bisabuelos paternos, Jose Angel Garcia Macias and Francisca Natalia Mendoza Tiscareno. I took a trip to Aguascalientes, and interviewed my cousin x2, Maria de Los Dolores Garcia Ruiz de La Pena 90x yrs of age daughter of my great uncle Ricardo Garcia Mendoza, also collected the book Cuatro Valores Aguascalentenses, author by Jose Antonio de La Torre Garcia, written in honor of his grandfather Jose Angel Garcia Macias,uncle Rafael Garcia Macias and Primos Ricardo Garcia Mendoza and Antonio Garcia Mendoza. During this trip I was able to gathered names and dates of birth of Jose Angel and Francisca Natalia sons and daughters. Through this research the names of abuelos paternos always mentioned Nicolas Garcia Reyes and Pantaleona Macias, and for children of Nicolas and Pantaleona the names of Abuelos Paternos have been Jose Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes and for the children of Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes the Abuelos Paternos: Jose Maria Garcia and Vicenta Bocanegra, Maternos Antonio Reyes and Josefa Bocanegra

The sequence of abuelos takes a drastic turn with the bautismo of Jose Camilo, July 19, 1809
Parents:Jose Maria Garcia y Maria Vicenta Aguilar aka Bocanegra (see above)
Abuelos Paternos:Jose Bartolo Garcia and Maria Margarita Salas
Abuelos Maternos: Dionicio Aguilar and Maria Eucevia Vocanegra (see above)

This as far as my documented history on the Garcia clan took me. Unfortunate without a bautismo of Nicolas Garcia Reyes , doubts exist.

Bautismo de Jose Angel Garcia Macias; bautismos 1853-1855, IMAGE 123 of 602

hijo legitimo de Nicolas Garcia y Pantaleona Macias
Abuelos Paternos: Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes
Abuelos Maternos: N. Maria Ysabel Macias, have a certificate that for Brigida Reyes as hija Natural de Baqcilio Lopez
Is there an answer?

Comentario

Hi Arturo,

Jose Maria is a very common name in that era. But, Jose Maria with the exact same named mother, (Margarita Salas) and the exact same named wife, (Vicenta Aguilar), who also happens to have the exact same named father, (Dionicio Aguilar) and a mother with the exact same given name, (Eusebia), is far less common. This doesn't mean Bartolo Garcia isn't his father, it just means he's a natural born child. I also don't believe this is the last hijo natural. This would also explain why there's no marriages for some of these couples, even though this is one of the best indexed areas. I would also not rely too heavily on everything that was told by family members, until it's backed up with records. I was told various things by family members, much of which turned out inaccurate, or, in some cases, completely wrong, once the actual records were found. I think there's little doubt that this is the correct Jose Maria Garcia(Salas).

Chris

From: "winonade14@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:58 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Andres Garcia

I would agree, however, I have documents through bautismos and matrimonios
that discount this theory. Jose Maria was a very common first and middle name
during those periods. My ancestry documented history begins with my
bisabuelos paternos, Jose Angel Garcia Macias and Francisca Natalia Mendoza
Tiscareno. I took a trip to Aguascalientes, and interviewed my cousin x2,
Maria de Los Dolores Garcia Ruiz de La Pena 90x yrs of age daughter of my
great uncle Ricardo Garcia Mendoza, also collected the book Cuatro Valores
Aguascalentenses, author by Jose Antonio de La Torre Garcia, written in honor
of his grandfather Jose Angel Garcia Macias,uncle Rafael Garcia Macias and
Primos Ricardo Garcia Mendoza and Antonio Garcia Mendoza. During this trip I
was able to gathered names and dates of birth of Jose Angel and Francisca
Natalia sons and daughters. Through this research the names of abuelos
paternos always mentioned Nicolas Garcia Reyes and Pantaleona Macias, and for
children of Nicolas and Pantaleona the names of Abuelos Paternos have been
Jose Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes and for the children of Camilo Garcia
and Brigida Reyes the Abuelos Paternos: Jose Maria Garcia and Vicenta
Bocanegra, Maternos Antonio Reyes and Josefa Bocanegra The sequence of
abuelos takes a drastic turn with the bautismo of Jose Camilo, July 19, 1809
Parents:Jose Maria Garcia y Maria Vicenta Aguilar aka Bocanegra (see above)
Abuelos Paternos:Jose Bartolo Garcia and Maria Margarita Salas Abuelos
Maternos: Dionicio Aguilar and Maria Eucevia Vocanegra (see above) This as
far as my documented history on the Garcia clan took me. Unfortunate without
a bautismo of Nicolas Garcia Reyes , doubts exist. Bautismo de Jose Angel
Garcia Macias; bautismos 1853-1855, IMAGE 123 of 602 hijo legitimo de Nicolas
Garcia y Pantaleona Macias Abuelos Paternos: Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes
Abuelos Maternos: N. Maria Ysabel Macias, have a certificate that for Brigida
Reyes as hija Natural de Baqcilio Lopez Is there an answer?

Comentario

Hi Chris, hijos/hijas naturales was very common based on my encounter of certificates I came across,(not in the Garcia Clan)I have not found one certificate suggesting that. I need to correct one statement, Jose Angel Garcia Macias and Francisca Natalia Mendoza Tiscareno are my maternal bisabuelos. I am the son of Francisca Garcia Yanez and Fernando de Leon Medina, my grandparents
were Jose Jesus Garcia Mendoza and Emilia (Edmigda) Yanez Macias, Emilia was the Natural daughter of Alejandro Yanez of Pinos Zacatecas and Teresa Macias Guardado Villa Garcia Zacatecas. My interview with Maria de Los Dolores Garcia Ruiz de La Pena, was confirming what I already had from my grandfather sons and daughters, here in Texas. She did not suggest nor influence me in anyway as to the family in Aguascalientes, social and educational status. All that information is recorded in their defunciones . In addition streets bearing their names in Aguascalientes because of their musical contributions to the State and Mexico as a whole, also recognition for some of the daughters of Jose Angel Garcia Macias who distinguished themselves as educators whose names appear on streets named after them. All that said, I would love to find the certificate of Bautismo for Nicolas Garcia Reyes, because this certificate would answer part of my questions. If you have located Nicolas bautismo, I would appreciate the period and Image number. I know he was born in April 1830, but had no success locating that certificate. Gracias

Arturo de Leon-Garcia

Comentario

Hi Arturo,

No one is suggesting anything about hijos naturales and the Garcia's. I have dozens of hijos naturales in my family. I'm suggesting that that's one possible explanation for the inconsistencies in records and multiple apellidos. I'm also not suggesting that you disregard your families oral and written history, I'm just suggesting that it needs to be confirmed with actual records, and, if those records show contradictory evidence, than you may need to disregard portions of what you may have heard. All of us in the forum are trying to assist you. I believe both records that I provided are your correct ancestors. I believe if your review them thoroughly you will come to the same conclusion.

Chris

Comentario

Hello everyone,

I agree with Chris in that this one is a big puzzle with many pieces but we are having trouble putting them together because of multiple use of names and information about what seems to be the same.people. The issue about different races is really not an issue. I have seen the same person referred to as three or four different racial classifications. Sometimes they would look at the color of the skin of the child and come up with the classification. I have seen the same person classified as mestizo, tresalvo, and espanol; each classification in a different document. The issue here is the numerous names for what seem to be the same people.

I do not have an answer for this dilemma. What I do know is that Chris has done excellent work when helping me out with my Perez-Gallo family line. I have a lot of respect for Chris's work and conjectures.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Oh I am not questioning Chris abilities, capabilities and theories regarding a multitude of surnames, it is probable. In this world everything has a probability, it is that my certificates seem to direct me toward the known, and I was simply trying to FIND NICOLAS GARCIA bautismo certificate that up to this point has eluded me. I feel comfortable with Camilo Garcia bautismo certificate and the data and names within the document. It is just that BAUTISMO belonging to NICOLAS I want. Thanks Rick A. Ricci for all your help and hard work.

Arturo de Leon-Garcia

Comentario

I am going to review this entire conversation and see where I can comfortably feel the connection, based on verifiable documents. The problem with me, is that I have a one chance to get it right, (getting old). I want whoever picks the baton, that his lane be clear. Again thank you for all your hard work.

Arturo de Leon-Garcia

Comentario

Dear Arturo,

Finding Nicolas 's baptismal record may help us figure out how these puzzle pieces fit together.. I will be on the look out for it. Let me know if you find additional information. Please let me know how I can help you.

Thank you and you are welcome,
Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Arturo,
It's not possible at all that it's a different Brigida. It is possible that this family used multiple apellidos or errors took place in various records, but the Brigida's are the same. First, there is not one baptism taking place for Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes, prior to the marriage of Camilo Garcia and Brigida Robalcava. Second, the Paternal grandparents are exactly the same for Camilo Garcia. Third, Camilo Garcia would have had to marry two women named Brigida, and the first Brigida would've had to have died prior to his 1835 marriage to Brigida Robalcava. And, clearly that's not the case, since Camilo Garcia and Brigida Reyes are still have children in the 1840's:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMMF-MRD
Chris

From: "winonade14@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 10:41 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] bautismo of Maria Patricia Garcia

Hi Chris, I have documented information on NICOLAS GARCIA and BRIGIDA REYES.
Bautismos 1841-1842 IMAGE 351 of 481 Asuncion de Maria Aguascalientes. This
is where I am having a difficult time trying to decipher the Birth of Nicolas
Garcia. En la Villa de Aguascalientes el veinte de Marzo de mil ochocientos
cuarenta dos, El Padre Do Monico Rangel de Licentia Parrochi Bautiso
Solamnemte y puso los Santo Oleos a MARIA PATRICIA que nacio el dia Diez y
Site a las Ocho de La Manana, Barrio el Salite, hija legitima de Camilo
Garcia y Brigida Reyes, Abuelos Paternos Jose Maria Garcia y Vicenta
Bocanegra, Abuelos Maternos; ANTONIO REYES y JOSEFA LOSANO Padrinos Jose
Maria Paredes Y Josefa Bocanegra. You said in your reply that Brigida's
father surname was Robalcaba and her mother was Josefa Reyes. Is it possible
that you are describing a total different Brigida Reyes. I m still at a loss
regarding my gg grandfather, Nicolas Garcia location of his Bautismo. can
anybody shed some light to this subject. Garcias Primos Arturo

Comentario

Hi Arturo,

I think you're looking in the wrong time frame for the baptism of Nicolas Garcia. I don't think he was born in 1830, but instead closer to 1836, based on his parents marriage in July of 1835: [https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X2M3-1FG ]. Sadly, the names again are slightly different from yours, although still similar. Here the bride and groom are listed as Camilo Garcia and Brigida Robalcaba. The paternal parents are listed as Jose Maria Garcia and Visenta Aguilar. The Maternal parents are listed as Ygnacio Robalcaba and Josefa Reyes. Brigida apparently used her mother's name. This new name of Robalcaba may help in your search.

Chris

Comentario

Name Jose Maria Garcia
Gender Male
Wife Maria Vicenta Aguilar
Son Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar
Name Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar
Gender Male
Christening Date 19 Jul 1809
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Maria Garcia
Mother's Name Maria Vicenta Aguilar
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMMC-S9T : 12 December 2014), Jose Maria Garcia in entry for Jose Camilo Garcia Aguilar, 19 Jul 1809; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,455.

Jose Maria Saavedra

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
Maria Saavedra.

Comentarios

Comentario

It says "herrero" (blacksmith), indígena (indian)". Indígena literally means local or native, but in this particular case means specifically "indian", a term that was common in colonial times but less favoured in independent Mexico. That after "indigena" the text clarifies "del mismo origen y vecindad" (same birthplace and residence than the person above), makes clear that with "indigena" he was trying to say "indian" and not only just "native".

Comentario

Carlos,

Thank you. I have a question for you, Im researching my first cousins family because she doesn't really know how to and she has lots Salgados and im wondering where your Salgados are from, hers are from San Pablo Meoqui.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Dear Danny,

Never translate words in isolation. Look up the words and get a word definition, but always remember that how the word is used and when it is used is important. Blacksmith is misspelled but it's a death record so you will often find a profession after a deceased persons name. If it had been a marriage record then you would expect espanol or tresalvo or Indio instead of a profession. I have seem some marriage records with a profession after a name but this is not common.

As to the native word, it does not mean Indian here. You have to look at the word "indigena" here with the other words in the rest of the sentence. It is in a death record, not a marriage record, and it is right after the profession is given. In this case the record states that he and his wife are originally from there and that they were known to be residents there.

Comentario

Dear Danny,

Your welcome. Your thanks are greatly appreciated. I am impressed with your devotion to genealogy at such a young age. I was interested in it at your age but mostly listened as my tio (great uncle) Doctor Rito Romo Franco would explain to me his latest findings. He would also tell me how I was related to the many people that we met while walking around town.

There was one lady, a great great aunt, that I thought was really old because she was in her seventies. I would later visit her when she was in her eighties and nineties. She lived to be over one hundred. She passed away decades ago so some of her stories were very old. She was a partera "birth nurse" for many people in the town so she always had stories about how this person was related to that person.

One of my favorite stories is the one a great great aunt of mine would tell me of when she was a little child hiding in a tree and throwing fruit at Santo Toribio Romo as he walked down the street. She made him dance in the street in order to avoid the fruit. When Santo Toribio finally figured out where the fruit was coming from, and who was throwing it, he loudly told her she was going to "get it" as soon as he told her father. She was his niece.

A cousin of my grandfathers just passed away, he was 102. He had many stories about the family that just fascinated me. Many of those people have now passed away but I keep them in my heart and in my records.

If you have a chance, go to mexico and listen to your elderly relatives tell you stories about your family.

Feel free to ask me for help in your research,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Thank you Mr.Ricci. I would like to go to Mexico an meet my relatives one day. I been wanting to go for a while but my mom doesnt think its safe right now. but I will definetly go one day. Thank you for your help.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

I believe they say herrero ( iron smith, his profession ) and indigena (
indigent is the word for word translation but I think they are trying to
say that he was native )
On Jun 15, 2016 4:21 PM, "Danny Alonso" wrote:

> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Oops, my bad: herrero, and indigena with an "a" at the end. herrero =
blacksmith, indigena = indigenous ( native ). Sorry I had not read all off
your comments before my first response. I noticed I made a mistake.
On Jun 15, 2016 9:18 PM, "Eduardo Seoane" wrote:

> I believe they say herrero ( iron smith, his profession ) and indigena (
> indigent is the word for word translation but I think they are trying to
> say that he was native )
> On Jun 15, 2016 4:21 PM, "Danny Alonso" wrote:
>
>> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>>
>>
>> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
>> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
>> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>>
>>
>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>>
>>
>> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to thank everyone that helped me with reading my ancestor Jose
MAria Saavedra's record, Mr. Ricci, Angelina, Ashlynn, Alicia, Donna,
Esther, Eduardo, Maria, Stella, and everyone that I might have missed. I
really appreciate all your help and assistance. thank you very much.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying to
get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
back.

Danny C. Alonso

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez
wrote:

> Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for you. I
> was
> learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!

Comentario

Danny,

I am doing a family tree for my adopted daughter. Her g-g grandfather was an Estevan Saavedra. He was from Degollado and Arandas in Jalisco. Saavedra is an unusual name (for me). I wonder if Estevan was related to your Jose Saavedra. Do you know the origin of that surname?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:14:11 -0700
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Maria Saavedra
>
> That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
> contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying to
> get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
> back.
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez
> wrote:
>
> > Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for you. I
> > was
> > learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!

Comentario

Emilie,

i missed this email. I heard the name a lot. I think Saavedra is pretty
common. I looked it up and it says its a goth name meaning Old House. I
asked my mom and she says goths are people that wear black makeup in
school, so i think these are different goths. If you tell me who your
Saavedra's ancestors are I can see if they link with mine.

Danny C. Alonso

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

> Danny,
>
> I am doing a family tree for my adopted daughter. Her g-g grandfather was
> an Estevan Saavedra. He was from Degollado and Arandas in Jalisco.
> Saavedra is an unusual name (for me). I wonder if Estevan was related to
> your Jose Saavedra. Do you know the origin of that surname?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:14:11 -0700
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Maria Saavedra
> >
> > That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
> > contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying
> to
> > get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
> > back.
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez <
> donnagonzalez002@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for
> you. I
> > > was
> > > learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!

Comentario

herrero = blacksmith,

indigeno = indigenous

Thus an indigenous blacksmith. The surname Herrera comes from the word
Herrero., son of an herrero, son of a blacksmith.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Even though the spelling is a little off it does mean blacksmith. The second word should be taken in context with the words that are written after that. It is saying that he , like his wife, are both originally , and residents, from that same area.

Comentario

It sounds like (Hebrew)

*Hevreo indigena*
Maybe someone else knows different.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hi Danny,

I don't know if I can help much but I'll try. The word for "hebrew" in
Spanish is "hebreo" and "v" and "b" are sometimes used interchangeably for
one another in a word. Though the writer wrote "hebrero". Still I think
Esther may be onto something.

From what limited amount I can read the woman has the same origin and comes
from the same vicinity as the legitimate son Jose. I know that many Jews
came over from Spain and the Iberian Peninsula and intermarried in Mexico.
My family has some Jewish blood from the Acevedo and Mercado sides. The
writer may be describing this woman and her son Jose (if i'm reading that
correctly) as being Jewish/Hebrew in origin. Maybe another person can
better translate this article.

Hope this helps a bit.
Good luck!
-Donna

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Esther Jordan wrote:

> It sounds like (Hebrew)
>
> *Hevreo indigena*
> Maybe someone else knows different.
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
> >
> >
> > Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for
> Jose
> > Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> > two words immediately after it says 68 años
> >
> >
> > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
> >
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Thank you Everyone. but now i'm a little confused. is he Hebrew or a
blacksmith or is he native American?

Danny C. Alonso

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:50 PM, wrote:

> Hello Danny,
>
> I read "herrero, indigeno". Which means he was a blacksmith of native
> origin.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>

Comentario

Hi Danny,

He's a Blacksmith, not a Jew. The word is herrero, not hevrero, which isn't
the word for Hebrew either way. Hebrew would be Hebreo, but, if he was a
Jew, they would've wrote Judío, not Hebreo. The second word, indígena, I
believe is referring to him being native to the same region of San Luis
Potosí, not of being indigenous in origin.

Have a great day,

Ashlynn

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Everyone. but now i'm a little confused. is he Hebrew or a
> blacksmith or is he native American?
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:50 PM, wrote:
>
> > Hello Danny,
> >
> > I read "herrero, indigeno". Which means he was a blacksmith of native
> > origin.
> >
> > -Angelina-
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

If it's herrero then it means iron worker or Blacksmith. The problem is that it looks more like hevrero.
Then the next word means indicates, so ti is saying they are getting the information from his wife who is from the same area.