Nuestros Ranchos Site

considering some of the names you mentioned, we might be related

Ruben, where is the older post you found? I would like to read it too. There are helpful guides for deciphering texts, but I cannot find one that addresses symbols in the margin.

I found a marriage record with a similar symbol, and am wondering its meaning there. The record is;
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18453-5545-67?cc=1874591&wc=… : accessed 28 Feb 2014), Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979 > Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979 > Colotlán > San Luis Obispo > Matrimonios 1720-1752 > image 34 of 508.

It shows the marriage of Diego Pinedo (mulatto) and Chatarina de la Cruz (of Tepuliche). Below that notation in the margin is a symbol like our percent (%) and a cross with circles at each of the four ends, outlined with four curves.

What does that mean?

Eric Freeman

These are the only people I found in Jalisco with the same surnames the
same as the ones you're searching for in Jalisco.

Jose Maria Gutierrez Camarena

Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950

christening:
17 March 1901 San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico
residence:
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico father: Gabino Gutierrez
mother: Candelaria
Camarena
Maria Silviana Gutierrez
Camarena

Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950
christening: 12 February 1900 San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de
Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico residence:
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico father: Camilo Gutierrez
mother: Maria
Camarena
Maria De Los Angeles Gutierrez
Camarena

Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950
christening: 4 October 1886 La Inmaculada Concepción, San Diego de
Alejandría, Jalisco, Mexico residence:
San Diego de Alejandría, Jalisco, Mexico father: Guadalupe Gutierrez
mother: Maria Refugio Camarena
Ma Ysabel Gutierrez De
Camarena

Mexico, National Census, 1930
birth: 1908 Jalisco residence: 1930 San Lucas, Tlajomulco, Jalisco,
Mexico other: Ebaristo Barbosa, Gillerma Péres De Barbosa, Nolberto
Barbosa, María Barbosa, Felicitas Barbosa, Simona Barbosa...

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 6:46 AM, PL Trois Laurent wrote:

> I'm trying to put together a family tree about my grandmother
> Maria Soledad Gutierrez.....born 1901 (?) in Arandas or Guadalajara,
> Jalisco area.....her parent were Jose Gutierrez and Emilia Camarena...I
> don't have any information about them.....I don't have any further
> information on her family tree...it's all a mystery... my grandmother
> immigrated to the U.S. in 1927 (with her sister, Guadalupe)....they had two
> brothers, Ramon and Miguel, who stayed in Mexico....
>
> I would like help getting information and tracing the family tree as far
> back as possible.
>
> Many thanks (Muchos Gracias)...
> Patricia Lawrence

Stuart Armstrong

The C. stands for "ciudadano". (citizen).

"Natural" USUALLY means natural child, that is, born out of wedlock or father unknown, or in some cases neither parent is known.

Depending on context, "natural" may also mean native of, same as "originario".

Some records abbreviate M (Mujer) or H (Hombre) in the margin of the record. This can be helpful when the other gender indicators in the text are unclear.

Hi Denise,

A book that has helped me a lot with deciphering the abbreviations is by Nancy Ellen Carlberg and is titled "Beginning Mexican Research".

I purchased this at a convention last year and it has been quite helpful.

Kristine

Stuart Armstrong
Yes, many times a woman goes by more than one name. Or parts of her full name. Her full name could be Antonia Catalina Avila Cid. But don't jump to that as the only solution. People changed or modified their names often, so that in later records you may not recognize the same person found in earlier records. I have several instances of females having as many as seven different surnames in various records, along with several variations of their given names. Whether it was that they had decided to be known by different names, or that the informants were not well informed, is hard to tell. I can certainly relate to your dilemma trying to decide if the two names belong to the same person.
Name variations seem to be more common with women than men. Perhaps it was because of the culture of the times, that the women were often not present at the christenings of their children, being "churched" or recovering from childbirth, and those present may have known her by her first name only. Remember - in many instances these were very poor people, almost slaves, and working hard to survive. And most of them were also illiterate.
Another reality which causes confusion many more times than you would expect is two siblings who have the same name. In my wife's direct ancestral line there is a Timoteo Puentes, who had a brother with exactly the same name. At first I thought he was married twice, until I noticed that the children of the two wives overlapped. One Timoteo married Severa Rodríguez and the other married Arcadia Zapata. To make matters worse, Severa had a sister named Severina, which you would expect to be a variation of the same name. And to make it even more confusing, one of the priests in the original records confused the wives of the two brothers and came up with Severa Zapata, leading one researcher to think they were the same person, and combining the names into Severa Arcadia Rodríguez Zapata. It took a lot of evidence to unravel the confusion and prove that some of the original records were wrong.
I have about six such instances of same-name siblings in my database. In one case there were THREE siblings of the same name. This scenario most commonly happens with twins, or with a child who was born on an older sibling's birthday. It does NOT usually mean that the older child had died - in most cases the siblings were contemporary and each raised their own families.
I might also point out that most of the "original" records were not really original. They were copied from other volumes or loose papers months or even years after the fact. Internal evidence reveals many typographical-style errors, parts of records ending up in other records, names and relationships missplaced, dates that don't make sense, gender errors (lots of them), etc.
My conclusion, then, is that you just have to keep on gathering evidence, until you get enough that hopefully the true picture will begin to emerge.

It's not uncommon for a person to be referred to with two different names.
i.e. Juan Antonio Carlos's parents are Jose Carlos and Maria Carrillo. He can be referred to as either Juan Carlos or Antonio Carrillo. I've seen this many times.

Jose Carlos de Leon

I believe these are two different women-- wives of the same man. I'm sure someone recording the vital information perhaps mixed up the names sometimes, but I don't think there is only one woman. What makes you think so?

Como siempre digo en esta área de estudio, requiere comprobar las informaciones con documentos fidedignos. Hemos encontrado muchísimos, sí, innumerables errores en estos sitios genealógicos de personas que colocan datos erróneos. Aunque, sin duda siempre es bueno por curiosidad comparar las informaciones nos puede dar una pista o por lo menos una dirección en abordar el tema. No estoy diciendo que están incorrecto TODAS las informaciones en esos sitios, mas para mi hasta que tengo un documento en mi mano que lo dice, lo establece y lo compruebe ahí se convierte en escritura. Debemos ser muy cuidadosos en las reconstrucciones de estos árboles genealógicos. Documento por documento, acta por acta, línea por línea, vínculo por vínculo. A los pocos podremos recopilar información suficiente para establecer las genealogías.

Solamente un pensamiento y suerte,

Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Yo soy pariente de Victoriano Ramírez López “El Catorce”. El Catorce fue hijo de Carlos Ramírez y de Viviana López. He investigado muy a fondo su genealogía ya que estamos emparentados por el apellido López de los Reyes. La madre de El Catorce, Viviana López Zavala (nac. 04 de diciembre de 1864, San Miguel el Alto), fue hija de Francisco López Maciel y de María de Jesús Zavala Rocha (casados el 19 de febrero de 1851, San Miguel el Alto). Francisco López Maciel (nac. 24 de febrero de 1828/bap. 3 de marzo de 1828, Guadalajarita, San Miguel el Alto) fue hermano entero de mi tatarabuelo Inocencio López Maciel (nac. 3 de enero de 1838/bap. 7 de enero de 1838, El Rancho del Alto, San Miguel el Alto). Francisco e Inocencio López Maciel fueron hijos de don José Feliciano López Vásquez y de doña María Guadalupe Maciel Villalpando, quienes se casaron el 20 de agosto de 1821 en Jalostotitlán, previa una dispensa de consanguinidad en tercer grado igual.

Todas mis investigaciones de documentos fidedignos comprueban irrefutablemente que el padre de El Catorce se llamaba Carlos Ramírez Ramírez, y no Gabriel Ramírez, como erróneamente afirman algunos descendientes. No he localizado ninguna evidencia que así lo compruebe, pero si existen actas de bautizo de sus otros hermanos en San Miguel el Alto. Además no existe para nada el matrimonio de un Gabriel Ramírez, menos con una López, o que hayan tenido hijos en San Miguel el Alto. Pero si existe el matrimonio de los verdaderos padres de El Catorce, Carlos Ramírez y Viviana López, en San Miguel el Alto, el día 7 de abril de 1880. Lamentablemente, ya no existe el acta de bautizo de Victoriano Ramírez López, ya que la página entera donde aparece su partida en 1892, fue robada hace muchos años. El Catorce nació el día 23 de marzo de 1892, en puesto El Rincón de Chávez, jurisdicción de San Miguel el Alto.

Victoriano Ramírez López fue primo segundo de mi abuelo Agustín López Salcido, o sea que El Catorce fue mi tío abuelo en segundo grado. Cuando mi abuelito Agustín vivía nos contaba que tenía parientes que pelearon en la Cristiada, y nos contaba que era pariente de El Catorce. Siempre me quedé con esa idea, hasta finalmente lo pude comprobar con la investigación genealógica. Nuestro parentesco se puede abreviar así:

.....................Feliciano López = Mª Guadalupe Maciel
Inocencio López=Carmen Flores..................Francisco López=Mª Jesús Zavala
Antonio López=Petra Salcido......................Viviana López=Carlos Ramírez
Agustín López=Mª Guadalupe Contreras..........Victoriano Ramírez López
María López=Ignacio Hernández
Steven F. Hernández López

Espero que les sea útil esta información.

Atentamente,
Steven Francisco Hernández Gamiño y López de los Reyes

(Steven Francisco Hernández-López)

I was the other person related to Francisco Acosta and Teresa Pedrosa
through my 4xGGrandfather Nazario Ponce, the Grandson of Micaela Pedroza.
If someone finds out who there parents are please let me know.

Mia

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: IChristopher
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acosta y Pedroza
>
> Hi?Paige and Armando
>
> I?actually don't have a lot of time to?really get into this discussion
> because I have to be?in homeroom shortly, Plus I?also don?t know who the
> parents of Don Francisco de Acosta or Do?a Theresa de Pedroza are, but they
> are my 7th great grandparents, and I thought I?d?mention I?ve asked about
> this couple before and never received a response, so, I think you?re
> message worked, I?m just not sure anyone in the group has any information
> on who their parents might be. I think many people in the forum are
> connected to the Gonzalez de Hermosillo?s, but I only remember one other
> person mention this specific line before and they were new too. Hopefully,
> maybe you can find something I haven?t been able to. But, I also am pretty
> sure Don Francisco de Acosta was never married to Do?a Theresa de Pedroza.
> Armando is right, both the marriage and the Informaci?n Matrimonial for Don
> Joseph Thomas Mu?oz Gonz?lez de Hermosillo and Do?a Michaela de
> Acosta y Pedroza, list Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza as hija natural de
> Do?a Theresa de Pedroza.
>
> Marriage:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12126-33354-49?cc=1502404&…
> Informaci?nMatrimonial:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12165-72890-91?cc=1502404&…
>
> Only on the defunci?n dated 11 Jan 1793 is Do?a Michaela de Acosta listed
> as hija leg?tima de Don Francisco de Acosta y Do?a Theresa de Pedroza:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11107-7567-81?cc=1502404&w…
>
> she died two days earlier giving birth to her 11th child, Miguel Juli?n
> Mu?oz Gonz?lez de Hermosillo.
>
> I believe the defunci?n is probably an error. Although, I do believe she
> is the daughter of Don Francisco de Acosta and Do?a Theresa de Pedroza. I
> just don?t think she is their legitimate daughter. I guess it?s
> possible that they married sometime after the birth of Michaela, but, I
> don?t think so and I don?t have a record of that. But, I have never found
> the baptism of Michaela de Acosta, so I don?t know what clues may be on
> that record. But, I?m sure that she would?ve
> probably been listed as Michaela de Pedroza on the baptism. It wasn?t
> until the dowry and during her marriage that she began being listed as
> Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza or just Michaela de Acosta. The dowry and how
> to access the information is contained in
> a list of dowries put together by George Fulton at this link:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19373
>
> the dowry for Do?a Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza and Don Joseph Thomas
> Mu?oz Gonz?lez de Hermosillo is dated 12-08-1769 and may have some
> information. I?ve seen it before, but can?t seem to access the site on my
> new computer for some reason, but, I don?t believe it has any specific
> information on her parents, or anything really significant, but, I can?t
> recall.?
>
> I actually also descend from a Don Francisco de Acosta that married one of
> the Fern?ndez de Palos and from a Do?a Theresa de Pedroza that also married
> one of the Fern?ndez de Palos each of them born in the 1720s which would
> make them perfect candidates to be the parents of Michaela de Acosta born
> in 1751, except for the fact that they were married to other people. I
> don?t know what their relationship is to the Don Francisco de Acosta and
> Do?a Theresa de Pedroza that are the parents of Michaela de Acosta y
> Pedroza, if any at all, except that they have the same names and live in
> the same region and the same timeframe.
>
> I?m sure there may be some other clues out there regarding the parents of
> Don Francisco de Acosta and Do?a Theresa de Pedroza, but I?m not sure what
> they are. There is a Don Ygnacio de Acosta who is Padrino at the wedding of
> their daughter Do?a Michaela de Acosta to Don Joseph Thomas Mu?oz Gonz?lez
> de Hermosillo, that may be a clue, but I don?t know. Also, on the baptism
> of Michaela de Acosta?s first child:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11864-154648-28?cc=1502404…
>
> the Padrino is a Don Joseph Antonio de Acosta, but, I think he may be a
> priest. ?On the baptism of at least three of the
> children, the Madrina is Do?a Petra de Pedroza, who, I think, may be the
> daughter of Do?a Juana de
> Acosta and Don Santiago de Pedroza, but, again, I?m not sure what the
> relationship is between those Acosta and Pedroza?s may be to
> Don Francisco
> de Acosta and Do?a Theresa de Pedroza. Really, this was just a long way
> of saying I have no idea who their parents are. I?ve been trying to figure
> that out for well over a year. And, probably none of this information is
> very helpful, but, I wanted to give you what I had on them.? Here is the
> links to the other baptisms I?ve found of the other children of Don Joseph
> Thomas Mu?oz Gonz?lez de Hermosillo and Do?a Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza,
> maybe it?ll help:
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11864-154648-28?cc=1502404…
>
> Chris??????????
>
> ?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acosta y Pedroza
> ?
> Hello Paige,
>
> The marriage record of Jos? Tom?s Mu?oz Gonz?lez De Hermosillo at El
> Sagrario,
> Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes on August 16, 1769 shows him
> marrying Michaela de Pedroza hija natural de Mar?a Teresa de Pedroza.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12126-33354-49?cc=1502404&…
> do you know that her father was Francisco de Acosta? Since the mother
> wasn't mentioned as being married there is probably not a marriage record,
> informaci?n matrimonial record, or dispensa that will allow you do
> determine the parents of either Francisco de Acosta or Teresa de Pedrosa.
>
> You might end up having to search for a dispensa of descendants of Jos?
> Tom?s Mu?oz Gonz?lez De Hermosillo
> and Micaela de Pedroza/Acosta to find
> the grandparents of Micaela.
>
> Armando
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm not sure my last message worked. I'm trying to locate the parents of
> don Francisco De Acosta, and his wife, do?a Teresa De Pedroza. They
> probably married around 1750 in Aguascalientes.
>
> They are the parents of Micaela De Acosta that married? Jos? Tom?s
> Mu?oz
> Gonz?lez De Hermosillo at El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes on
> August 16, 1769.
>
> Paige

 
Hi Alicia,
 
I descend from them on my mother's side, so I don't know whether it would solve the puzzle. Plus, I descend from the other Pedroza's and Acosta's on my father's side and I'm not familiar enough with DNA to know whether it would help or whether my other Acosta and Pedroza connections would just confuse the situation. Armando probably could better answer that question.
 
Chris
 

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acosta y Pedroza

Have any of you who believe you descend from this paternal and maternal
lineage, ever considered taking dna tests to see if you're connected by DNA?

Alicia

________________________________
From: IChristopher
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acosta y Pedroza

Hi Paige and Armando

I actually don't have a lot of time to really get into this discussion because I have to be in homeroom shortly, Plus I also don’t know who the parents of Don Francisco de Acosta or Doña Theresa de Pedroza are, but they are my 7th great grandparents, and I thought I’d mention I’ve asked about this couple before and never received a response, so, I think you’re message worked, I’m just not sure anyone in the group has any information on who their parents might be. I think many people in the forum are connected to the Gonzalez de Hermosillo’s, but I only remember one other person mention this specific line before and they were new too. Hopefully, maybe you can find something I haven’t been able to. But, I also am pretty sure Don Francisco de Acosta was never married to Doña Theresa de Pedroza. Armando is right, both the marriage and the Información Matrimonial for Don Joseph Thomas Muñoz González de Hermosillo and Doña Michaela de
Acosta y Pedroza, list Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza as hija natural de Doña Theresa de Pedroza.

Marriage: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12126-33354-49?cc=1502404&…
Información Matrimonial: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12165-72890-91?cc=1502404&…

Only on the defunción dated 11 Jan 1793 is Doña Michaela de Acosta listed as hija legítima de Don Francisco de Acosta y Doña Theresa de Pedroza: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11107-7567-81?cc=1502404&w…

she died two days earlier giving birth to her 11th child, Miguel Julián Muñoz González de Hermosillo.

I believe the defunción is probably an error. Although, I do believe she is the daughter of Don Francisco de Acosta and Doña Theresa de Pedroza. I just don’t think she is their legitimate daughter. I guess it’s
possible that they married sometime after the birth of Michaela, but, I don’t think so and I don’t have a record of that. But, I have never found the baptism of Michaela de Acosta, so I don’t know what clues may be on that record. But, I’m sure that she would’ve
probably been listed as Michaela de Pedroza on the baptism. It wasn’t until the dowry and during her marriage that she began being listed as Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza or just Michaela de Acosta. The dowry and how to access the information is contained in
a list of dowries put together by George Fulton at this link: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19373

the dowry for Doña Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza and Don Joseph Thomas Muñoz González de Hermosillo is dated 12-08-1769 and may have some information. I’ve seen it before, but can’t seem to access the site on my new computer for some reason, but, I don’t believe it has any specific information on her parents, or anything really significant, but, I can’t recall. 

I actually also descend from a Don Francisco de Acosta that married one of the Fernández de Palos and from a Doña Theresa de Pedroza that also married one of the Fernández de Palos each of them born in the 1720s which would make them perfect candidates to be the parents of Michaela de Acosta born in 1751, except for the fact that they were married to other people. I don’t know what their relationship is to the Don Francisco de Acosta and Doña Theresa de Pedroza that are the parents of Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza, if any at all, except that they have the same names and live in the same region and the same timeframe.

I’m sure there may be some other clues out there regarding the parents of Don Francisco de Acosta and Doña Theresa de Pedroza, but I’m not sure what they are. There is a Don Ygnacio de Acosta who is Padrino at the wedding of their daughter Doña Michaela de Acosta to Don Joseph Thomas Muñoz González de Hermosillo, that may be a clue, but I don’t know. Also, on the baptism of Michaela de Acosta’s first child: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11864-154648-28?cc=1502404…

the Padrino is a Don Joseph Antonio de Acosta, but, I think he may be a priest.  On the baptism of at least three of the
children, the Madrina is Doña Petra de Pedroza, who, I think, may be the daughter of Doña Juana de
Acosta and Don Santiago de Pedroza, but, again, I’m not sure what the relationship is between those Acosta and Pedroza’s may be to
Don Francisco
de Acosta and Doña Theresa de Pedroza. Really, this was just a long way of saying I have no idea who their parents are. I’ve been trying to figure that out for well over a year. And, probably none of this information is very helpful, but, I wanted to give you what I had on them.  Here is the links to the other baptisms I’ve found of the other children of Don Joseph Thomas Muñoz González de Hermosillo and Doña Michaela de Acosta y Pedroza, maybe it’ll help:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11864-154648-28?cc=1502404…

Chris          

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acosta y Pedroza
 
Hello Paige,

The marriage record of José Tomás Muñoz González De Hermosillo at El
Sagrario,
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes on August 16, 1769 shows him
marrying Michaela de Pedroza hija natural de María Teresa de Pedroza.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12126-33354-49?cc=1502404&…
do you know that her father was Francisco de Acosta? Since the mother
wasn't mentioned as being married there is probably not a marriage record,
información matrimonial record, or dispensa that will allow you do
determine the parents of either Francisco de Acosta or Teresa de Pedrosa.

You might end up having to search for a dispensa of descendants of José
Tomás Muñoz González De Hermosillo
and Micaela de Pedroza/Acosta to find
the grandparents of Micaela.

Armando

Hello everyone,

I'm not sure my last message worked. I'm trying to locate the parents of
don Francisco De Acosta, and his wife, doña Teresa De Pedroza. They
probably married around 1750 in Aguascalientes.

They are the parents of Micaela De Acosta that married  José Tomás
Muñoz
González De Hermosillo at El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes on
August 16, 1769.

Paige

I'm wondering if it was in reference for "cross-eyed"?

Jose Carlos de Leon

Guadalupe Correa Diaz was my great grandfather and I am stucked in that line. Although you gave me a tip with miguel orozco tatarabuelos. I will enriched this thread after a few searches

Disculpas, Miguel Lopez de Elizalde y Leonor de Aberruza fueron abuelos de Beatriz Lopez y los padres de Beatriz fueron Juan Lopez de Elizalde y Aberruza y Leonor Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza, padres de Leonor Becerra fueron Juan Becerra y Ana sanchez de Mendoza, esta ultima hija de Toribio Hernandez de Arellano y de Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza hija de Iñigo Lopez de Mendoza y Qiñonez, Marquez de Mondejar y de Maria Laso de Mendoza.  Capitulo 81. Geneologias de Nochistlan.

--- On Wed, 1/20/10, alvaradj@comcast.net wrote:

From: alvaradj@comcast.net
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Macias&Josefa de Alvarado and Thomas Macias-Maria Lopez de Lizalde
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 2:35 PM

Sisters Maria Lopez de Elizalde and Josefa de Alvarado, daughters of Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde, married respectively Thomas Macias (13 Sept 1659) and Nicolas Macias (21 Feb 1662). Does anyone knows what is the relationships of Nicolas and Thomas to the Macias Valades clan? Also, I do not have any information past Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde. I will appreciate any help.

Las hermanas Maria Lopez de Elizalde y Josefa de Alvarado, hijas de Luis de Alvarado y Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde, se casaron respectivamente con Thomas Macias (13 sept 1659) y con Nicolas Macias (21 feb 1662). Alguien conoce la relacion entre Nicolas y Thomas con el resto del clan Macias Valades? Asi mismo, no cuento con ninguna informacion previa a Luis Alvarado y Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde. Le voy a agradecer su ayuda.

Estos, nombres probablemente son los que andas buscando.
Nicolas Macias, fue bautizado el 22 de Febrero de 1642. Padres Francisco Macias y Jasinta Ortega en Aguascalientes.
Hay un Mateo, no un Tomas hermano de este Nicolas.
Mateo Macias, hijo de Francisco Macias y Jasinta de Ortega, fue bautizado 17 Octubre 1627 en Aguascalientes.
Tambien Maria Lopez de Lizalde hermana de Beatriz Lopez, caso en primeras nupcias con Juan de Luevana y en segundas con Martin Ruiz de Esparza. Ver Cap. 51 G. Nochistlan.
Beatriz Lopez fue hija de Miguel Lopez de Elizalde y de Leonor de Aberruza.
Talvez Maria Lopez se caso mas que dos veces, si ese fue el caso el tercer esposo sería Tomas, pero si no, quiere decir que a lo mejor, tu información no es completamente correcta, o la informacón de Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez y Frias en su libro de Genealogias de Nochistlan Capitulo 81, pagina 236 a 239, no sean confiables, es cuestión de investigar un poco mas. Espero que te ayude un poco. Celestino.

--- On Wed, 1/20/10, alvaradj@comcast.net wrote:

From: alvaradj@comcast.net
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Macias&Josefa de Alvarado and Thomas Macias-Maria Lopez de Lizalde
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 2:35 PM

Sisters Maria Lopez de Elizalde and Josefa de Alvarado, daughters of Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde, married respectively Thomas Macias (13 Sept 1659) and Nicolas Macias (21 Feb 1662). Does anyone knows what is the relationships of Nicolas and Thomas to the Macias Valades clan? Also, I do not have any information past Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde. I will appreciate any help.

Las hermanas Maria Lopez de Elizalde y Josefa de Alvarado, hijas de Luis de Alvarado y Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde, se casaron respectivamente con Thomas Macias (13 sept 1659) y con Nicolas Macias (21 feb 1662). Alguien conoce la relacion entre Nicolas y Thomas con el resto del clan Macias Valades? Asi mismo, no cuento con ninguna informacion previa a Luis Alvarado y Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde. Le voy a agradecer su ayuda.

I have Tomas' parents as:
Pedro Macias Valades & Luisa Solano de Villegas.
I know Nicolas' parents have been debated. Some claims as to be being married twicewith Francisca Gutierrez de Mendoza cannot be becuase it conflicts with the childrens baptisms. A man couldnt be married to two woman at the same time. I believe they re not the sameNicolas. It had to be another Nicolas, a close relative.
-Daniel
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Edgar Olguin Diaz
un cordila saludo
aqui esta el link del bautimos de mauro
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15530-76700-95?cc=1804458&wc…

Edgar Olguin Diaz
un cordila saludo
aqui esta el link del bautimos de mauro
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15530-76700-95?cc=1804458&wc…

Edgar Olguin Diaz
un cordila saludo
aqui esta el link del bautimos de mauro
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15530-76700-95?cc=1804458&wc…

Edgar Olguin Diaz
un cordila saludo
aqui esta el link del bautimos de mauro
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15530-76700-95?cc=1804458&wc…

Edgar Olguin Diaz
un cordila saludo
aqui esta el link del bautimos de mauro
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15530-76700-95?cc=1804458&wc…

If Felipe was born Aug. of 1856 in San Miguel El Alto then his surname is Alderete Anda and not Anda Alderete. The paternal surname goes first and the maternal surname goes last.

The same goes for Santiago, if his father's surname was Torres and his mother's surname was Guerra then his surname was Torres Guerra and not Guerra Torres.

The birth record of Santiago should name his grandparents. Are they not named in it?

Regards
Armando