Nuestros Ranchos Site

Arturo,

What pixel size dimensions did you use on your camera for the pictures? Do they print out at a reasonable resolution so they can be read?

Raymond

I just uploaded an article from the LDS Church News that gives some
information about the Digital Conversion Project

have a look in Albums-->Digital Filming Project News

joseph

A quote from Joseph's message to Natalie:

"Now Natalie, who exactly are we talking about? Can you email me
privately? I think it's time for the Cinto"

Reading about "El cinto" brought back memories of the time when I was a "Muy travieso" little boy and the harsh discipline administered by my parents.

It has been a long time and I don't remember all of the details of what I did, but it must have been something really bad. I remember playing with two cousins, two older sisters, and some neighborhood friends. We were all around five to eight years old. We were playing in our backyard when all of a sudden I heard somebody say: "Here comes your Mom" I turned around and I didn't like what I saw, my Mom, walking rapidly toward me, with the meanest look in her eyes and a rope in one hand. I looked around for a place to run to or a place to hide, no such luck. I knew that was it and I was about to have a new experience in life.

My Mom grabbed me by one arm and dragged me to a tree while she was saying: "I am going to teach a lesson you'll never foreget, I am going to hang you! " I started to cry as I looked around, hoping that somebody would come to my rescue, no such luck. All the other kids were also crying and scared, frozen stiff in place, just waiting to see what was going to happen to me. She took the rope and wrapped it around my WAIST, tied a knot and threw the other end over a limb of the tree. She pulled on the rope, lifting me about a couple of feet off the ground. That's when I died! Of course, at the age, I had no idea that people didn't die hanged by a rope tied around the waist. She must have held me up in the air for a full five or ten seconds, but for me, it was an eternity. The last thing that I remember is seeing the other kids running away in panic, crying out loud. I guess they also thought that I was going to die.

I wasn't physically hurt, just emotionally, which is worse...Was it cruel? Funny? You be the judge.

That incident made quite an impression on me, to the point where I have never forgotten it. My kids laugh out loud when I tell them abou it. It probably shaped my behavior for the rest of my life. From that point on, I was a well behaved and responsible person.

ps: This incident took place in Mexico in the early 1940's.

I have a feeling that this little true story will open a new subject for discussion... Discipline of Hispanics. Who hasn't felt the CINTO ?
or some other object on their bottom?

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

1gnzlz@verizon.net

Susanna,

here are the answers I received from the FTM list about the back slash issue
I think we need to experiment with it with the first names as well

maybe something like

\Maria Josefa\ \Sanchez de Castillo Cruz\

this has some great possibilities

joseph

ps: here is info about the list:

Having a problem? Try our Online Help Center at: http://help.genealogy.com
which features a knowledge base and links to all available support resources
[OR]
You are currently subscribed to ftmtech-l as: makas@nc.rr.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ftmtech-l-51602891H@lyris.genealogy.com
Remember, this list's name is FTMTECH-L (not the number one)
[OR]
For genealogy help, check out our new, revised learning center!
http://www.genealogy.com/genehelp.html

====================

My original questions:

Subject: BackSlash/Upgrade: 2 questions
From: Joseph Puentes
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:19:44 -0500
X-Message-Number: 7

I was listening to the "Genealogy Guys" podcast and they were saying
something about the use of the backslash in names to force FTM to accept
a name as it is. Can someone explain that a little further? For example
in my Hispanic Genealogy the fathers surname takes the middle position
and the mothers maiden surname take the last position: e.g. if my dad
was Antonio Perez and my mom was Louisa Diaz my name would be Joseph
Perez Diaz

so if I were to insert that into FTM and want to make FTM recognize the
last or surname to be Perez Diaz instead of just Diaz would I write it
like this:

Joseph \Perez Diaz\ ????

=========================

Second question. I'm still using FTM 11 and have a copy of the version
that followed that I never upgraded to. I have been hesitating since a
cousin also has FTM 11 and I didn't want to force him to upgrade as
well. Well Now that there is a FTM 2006 I"m wondering what I should do.
Can I go directly from FTM 11 to FTM 2006? or do I need to upgrade
twice: To FTM 2005 and then to FTM 2006 (that is assuming there was
nothing between FTM 11 and FTM 2005)?

Will someone using FTM 11 that receives something on a CD from me using
FTM 2006 be able to read it or will they be forced to upgrade as well.

thanks,

Joseph Puentes
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com

======================

Their Answers:

Subject: Re: BackSlash/Upgrade: 2 questions
From: "John Okerson"
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:26:59 -0500
X-Message-Number: 8

From: "Joseph Puentes"

>> so if I were to insert that into FTM and want to make FTM recognize the
>> last or surname to be Perez Diaz instead of just Diaz would I write it
>> like this:
>>
>> Joseph \Perez Diaz\ ????
>
>

Sure, that is exactly how it works. When you do it the first time, you can
tell the chage has been effected, because FTM asks you if you wish to change
the name. In a similar fashion, if you wanted to make him Joseph \Perez\
Diaz, FTM would ask again as it is a different surname. Another way is to
check in the Index of Individual when you have the person already selected -
either highlighted or with the cursor in his/her name box. The F2 key, or
the Index of Individuals icon, will take you to their place in the list of
folks. You NEED to check this!

>> =========================
>> Can I go directly from FTM 11 to FTM 2006? or do I need to upgrade twice:
>> To FTM 2005 and then to FTM 2006 (that is assuming there was nothing
>> between FTM 11 and FTM 2005)?
>
>

You may go directly from FTM 11 to FTM 2006, without difficulty.

>> Will someone using FTM 11 that receives something on a CD from me using
>> FTM 2006 be able to read it or will they be forced to upgrade as well.
>
>

When YOU export the data for your friend, you need to save it for him/her in
FTM 11 format and NOT open it thereafter. Reopening converts the newly made
Version 11 file a 2006 file. Can it be done? Absolutely YES! Hay que darse
cuidado - nada mas. Just be careful. You can read his data and he can read
yours as long as you are careful with it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: BackSlash/Upgrade: 2 questions
From: "Candy Jens"
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:24:04 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9

I don't mean to complain - but the General Digest Vol 3 Issue 15 that I received was a DISASTER. It seemed to be filled with a lot of repeitive text that I am sure is clogging up our site. I know Joseph posted some instructions not long ago on how to delete the body of a message before hitting reply to a query, etc. I don't remember what day that was posted (and I couldn't find the message to provide reference here) - but it is a message that may need repeating - and READ CAREFULLY for guidance in this matter - and if you don't understand, then ask for additional help. I am not very good with computer techy stuff, but believe me, if I can do it you can too, it isn't hard to do.
OK - I'm off the soap box. Have a beautiful day - may you be blessed in the coming weeks with the discovery of new ancestors.

Natalie C. Coleman, Virginia

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Yoland Medina Perez has submitted a very very thought provoking poem. .
.go and read it:

Files-->Books and Articles-->"Poems and Cuentos"

Secrets are something that can totally alter our genealogy.

I was listening to a podcast the other day by the Genealogy Guys and
they were telling why these certain documents were in error. It seems
that the duaghter in law had made a death bed promise to keep the secret
that the mother in law was older than husband and that was why the
information on the death cert was wrong.

Secrets and previous centuries way of thinking on things are things we
really need to consider.

seems in my family certain secrets have altered the history as well. The
story goes that my grandmother, Virginia Diaz was born on December 15,
1886 some 5 days (oh what shame) before my grandfather, Julio Puentes
who was born on December 20, 1886, but I couldn't find a baptism record
for Abuelita Virginia. but low and behold there is another Virginia Diaz
baptism that was recorded on December 3, 1885. woe, Woe, WOE that would
make my grandmother a whopping 1 year and 17 days older than my
grandfather IF indeed it is Abuelita Virginia's baptism record.

So now it gets confusing. What do I believe. I'm leaning in the
direction that the 1885 record is NOT my abuelita Virginia's baptism
record AND that is solely on gut instinct with strong Oral History to
back up that instinct. The next generation will have to figure it out.

Seems that there is a lot of back and forth about their ages. Seems that
there were some letters written back and forth about how my
G-grandfather (Julio Puente, Sr DOB: April 11, 1852) was upset about my
grandfather marrying a 5 days older woman. Was it really that big of a
deal? Were Mexican men of that time really suppose to be marrying women
10 years their junior to insure plenty of time for them to be reproductive?

. . .well anyway. The story goes that my G-grandfather wasn't so much
upset by the fact that my grandfather was marrying his 3rd cousin but
that he was marrying an "older" woman. Also the story goes that my Great
Grandfather, Francisco Diaz (DOB: April 2, 1862) would tell my
grandmother over and over again that if she didn't remember anything or
learn anything she needed to remember the day of her birth: December 15,
1886. My Aunt who recently passed, Julia Puentes de Espinoza was told
that story about the repeating of her birth over again several times to
make the point stick.

Now we have the story of my Great Grandmother Antonia SantaMaria (DOB:
June 11, 1862) in "Muchacha" (which is also in the Poems and Cuentos).
She had a child that was born before my grandmother who died when my
grandmother was just born. That 1885 record could easily be for this
first child and that other child easily could have been Virginia1 and
then my grandmother named the same to replace the dead child. I've seen
multiple same name namings like that even when the child didn't die.

So what was it? Was all of it an elaborate story to cover up the horrid
and unbearable fact that my grandmother was 1 year and 17 days older
than my grandfather? or was there another child born before that was
Virginia1 and my grandmother really was renamed to take her place?

I don't know and don't believe I'll ever know for sure, but I do know
that I "believe" that my Abuelita Virginia was born on December 15, 1886
and the next generation of researchers will need to sort things out.

It is an interesting story and gives some insight into the way our
people our relatives thought back in their time. This way of thinking is
directly influential into the way we think now because they were the
ones that directly influenced our parents. Thank you Yolanda for your
poem that provoked these thoughts. Imagine all the other secrets that
our relatives have taken with them to their graves. How I also would
love to sit at their feet and hear the stories.

joseph

Hi John:

It was Alicia's idea that we meet in the Bay Area or Central
California to allow other genealogists to join our meetings. We all
agreed and welcomed the opportunity to get out of the 100+ degree
weather in Sacramento. I hope you can join us.

Maria

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:46:00 -0700
> From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brentwood
> To:
> Message-ID: <002901c65dc2$16b46ec0$6400a8c0@Emachine>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8;
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Maria:
>
> I am just wondering how somebody came up with Brentwood as the location for
> the NorCal meeting in July. What a great idea! My wife has relatives in
> Antioch and I have one brother in Stockton and one near Lodi. It looks like
> if I decide to go, I can kill two birds with one stone, meet my "Primas
> Norte?as" and visit my family.
>
> John Gonzalez
> Wildomar, CA.
> 1gnzlz@verizon.net
>

"Here"

This arrival would be for Juan Antonio LIENDO, senior since it is before the birth of the junior. But the time frame seems correct given that you believe the junior was born around 1700. This Antonio LIENDO came unmarried to the new world... Guatemala, which is not quite Nueva Espana but very close and certainly within easy migrating distance to Zacatecas a decade later...

Furthermore, Catalina DE LA ROSA strikes me (gut instinct) as an indigenous name... I have run across many a records with DE LA ROSA and DE LA CRUZ and so forth indicating the person as India/o. Makes sense that they would be assigned such simple, descriptive names instead of really obscure Basque names, etc.

I think you are on the right track about his parents marrying in Zacatecas. If I make it to Salt Lake in October, I will be looking through the informaciones matrimoniales of the 1600s in Zacatecas and will keep an eye open.

>
>
> here

Maria
>

I'm not there yet, but have any of you gotten to the point in your
research where the records are written in Latin? I'm not even sure that
this will be an issue in Mexico.but just in case you are back that far
here is a tutorial on beginning Latin that might help:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/latin/beginners/

also related to this is:

Palaeography: reading old handwriting

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/

I found this information on the Genealogy Guys podcast:
http://www.genealogyguys.com/

They very seldom talk about things specifically related to Hispanic
Genealogy, but often talk about things that could benefit us in our
genealogy.

One thing they mentioned is something I have yet to fully investigate.
Seems that Family Tree Maker will hold the two name Spanish style of
Surnaming together in the right order with the use of a slash or
back-slash.

At the same time they did give a good plug for the Legacy software that
Victor uses in that it has fields for each of the names I believe.

joseph

From: Dani Brown [mailto:dtxn@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 10:43 AM
To: MEXICAN-HISTORY-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: [MEX-HISTORY] Missouri Online!

The Missouri Archives has put up an index to 1910-1955 Missouri death certificates. They will eventually have images of all certificates, but for now they have 1900-1920 images. It's kind of slow because it's new and is getting lots of use.

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/deathcertificates/#search

Dani

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Sacerdotes martires ahora santos
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: francisco sevilla
To: Joseph Puentes

I'm addressing this message for "Joseph" take interest in reality
is for all of you that interest in "La Guerra Cristera". Recently less
than 20 years it came into public knowledge that close to one million,
(si casi un millon) of casualties were because of this conflict.
It is very odd that the Catholic Bible is the only bible thhat
includes one extra book. The Book of Judith. You have to read it to
understand the set mind of those "mexicanos" that revolted against the
government. Also check the following web page:
http://www.psicomundo.com/mexico/artefacto/corazon.htm It gives an
account on Jose Leon Torales.

Francisco

"Here"

Ranchos Members

Report on visit to Family History Library in Salt Lake City (FHL in SLC).

Cojumatlan de Regules, Michoacan - Film Inventory at FHL in SLC
Unfortunately only 1 film number was found. Film number 654633. I see on the catalog listing a few more films showing FHL INTL Film which should mean they are at the FHL in SLC, so this could mean that these films are in High Density location. When ordering your films before a trip, they will check High Density first before ordering from the VAULT. When you get to the library, always check the file drawers to see if your films are in, if not, then go to the window and ask if they are in High Density. They will check their database and either order the film from VAULT or they go back to High Density location and bring them out to the window, usually takes one hour. Don't recall who ask to check this out so I am addressing it to all

Jalostotitlan, Jalisco - Film Inventory at FHL in SLC
ALL films are in EXCEPT
279284 thru 285
279287 thru 294
279312 thru 279316
279381 thru 279398

Arturo Ramos
Found all documents and will put them in the mail to you if we don’t see you while we are in Virginia.

Joseph Puentes
We found all documents except
Maria Phelipa de Jesus Puente Xaloma 604811 - incomplete date - wrong date? This film covered vol 8 1679 – 1771
Vol 9 1693 – 1695
Maria Catarina Puentes Aguilus - 604815 check vol 14 1809 – 1825 checked thru Dec 1820
Jose Pasqujal Francisco Puente 604815 check along with above Maria Catarina.

Helyn
We will need an 18 wheeler to bring home your documents. We got all documents except the following:
Unfortunately your Juan Carlos de Godoy Miranda b 19 Mar 1687 was not found. Film number 439844 went from Feb 1687 thru 1688. We looked forward and backwards both directions for 1 year. If we had another day, we would have checked further.
Since Rosalinda Ruiz was with us, she checked over your documents and made copies.
About your Saint Cristobal Magallanas Correra, Rich found Mateo Correra during your time frame in Colotlan, so we made a copy of page with his signature on three times. Nice clean copy. Rosalinda says she believes your Cristobal Magallanas was a priest in Totatiche, Jalisco. We didn't check that out any further.

Maria Elena Guitierrez
Found all documents, need your address so we can mail them to you.

Mickey,
I am sorry to report I never could figure out what films went with what request. When we see you in Houston later this month, I’ll explain to you the format that works for us when visiting the FHL.

Maria Cortez
I believe we found all your documents. I sealed your envelope up and can’t confirm it. I guess you will be surprised.

Yvonne Beltran
We found all your documents

Elvira
Your film number 1327059 was very hard to read. With the baptism Rich went back and forward one year and couldn’t find it. With the Marriage we found the date with a few documents, but none were yours. Rich also went back and forth 1 year.

Sometimes when FHC order films for their locations it come out in better condition. We had a film for Banamichi, Sonora and spent many trips trying to view it until a volunteer suggested we try ordering a better copy. When the original was made they must have been low on toner or whatever they use. The second copy was a little better.

All
In the two days we were there, we were able to find 19 documents of Rich’s ancestors, and 63 documents of yours total of 82. We spent 12 hours on Tuesday and 10 ½ hours on Friday with Rosalinda.
All documents are now in envelopes and ready to mail out. We will wait until we find a Post Office or in grocery store post office to verify the weight before mailing them out.
We are driving thru Wyoming right now as I type this listing and just passed a herd of antelope. Nothing else to see, kinda like the middle of Nevada, but windy. Lots of trucks.

Rich driver and
Kitty typist

Perhaps someone can guide me in the right direction......my brick wall is
"Zacatecas, Zac." where my ancestor, Juan Antonio Liendo and his wife
Catalina de la Rosa gave birth to their son also named Juan Antonio Liendo.
In the will of Juan Antonio Liendo (the son) he states (in 1771) that he was
"originario de Zacatecas, Zac" but he does not give the name of a Rancho or
any other town. I am assuming he (the son) was born around 1700. My focus
on the SLC trip is to find records on the son and on his parents as well.

Can anyone tell me what towns or ranchos may have existed in or around the
city of Zacatecas in the late 1600s or very early 1700s?

Thanks!

Josie

Estoy aqui. I'm here!

Maria Gutierrez-Uhlenburg

test

test

test.

Sorry to have the need to do this, but I really want to get a handle on
who is getting the messages delivered to their email inboxes.

If you get this email automatically delivered to your inbox then just
reply to the email and say "HERE."

if I don't get an answer from you I might have to go in and reset your
email distribution list subscription so that those "CONFIRMATION" emails
that folks are not replying to will be regenerated and maybe this time
around they will be "replied to."

I hate having to take up bandwidth on this list for this administrative
stuff, but I need to know whose properly subscribed and whose not.

So If you get this 1) click on the "reply" button of your email program
and 2) just say at the top of the email "HERE."

If this time next Saturday I haven't received a "HERE" from you I"m
going in and resetting your email list subscription. (That means that if
you are properly subscribed, but don't reply to this email and I go in
and reset it you will now be in the position where you are forced to
reply to those confirmation emails again even if you already did. SO
PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL SO I KNOW ALL IS WELL WITH YOUR SUBSCRIPTION).

thanks,

joseph

The orginal indigenous inhabitants of the area around Momax, Zacatecas
were Caxcanes, Tepecanos and perhaps Zacatecas. All of these ethnic
groups were Uto-Aztecan speakers, meaning that the languages that they
spoke were related to Nahuatl, though Tepecano is not as closely related
to the others. The migration of that group southward was much later
than that of the Mexica, and is closer to Pima and some Southwestern
U.S. indigenous languages. Uto-Aztecan speakers are originally from the
area around Arizona and Utah (thus the Uto in the language family name).

But you are correct in that the names are Nahuatl-derived. Soon after
Spanish arrival in the area, the local indigenous populations were
largely decimated and other natives migrated to the area to meet labor
needs. I know that in Colotlan, Jalisco, hundreds of Tlaxcaltec
families were brought in as colonizers by the Spanish and "mexicano"
(the language of the Mexica and Tlaxcaltecs now academically refered to
as Nahuatl) was the lingua franca by the early 1600s. It seems that
many of the names were Nahuatlized.

What's in the telling of our stories and telling of our lives? It depends........, could be a great deal or very little, depending on who's doing the telling and who's doing the listening.

I, because I've been consumed with geneaological research for the last year and a half, communicate this to almost anyone who will listen, who is family or may be family or may want to be family or may want to just listen to me babble.

In one of my spurts a few months back, I began to relate to one of my sister's friends who is from Mexico with ancestors from Monterey, Nuevo Leon and from Chihuahua how I was doing family research. One conversation led to another and while she listened to my musings she interrupted me to say that she believed we might be related to her boyfriend, as he had mentioned in their long courtship some of the same family names and the same towns and ranchos. She then told us that he had a book on Nochistlan which I assumed would be Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias' book. I showed her my copy of this book and she said it was a different one that focused on the Duranes of Nochistlan, Zac, written by a Duran of Nochistlan. A couple of weeks later she came with her boyfriend. Sure enough, her boyfriend's grandparents were from Nochistlan.

Last night they dropped by with this book, written in spanish by Ingeniero Jesus Duran Rodriguez with a prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal. The title is; NOCHISTLAN, ZACATECAS, Su Parroquia, Los Duran y otras familias antiguas. Estudio Historico-Genealogico. It is 349 long delicious pages of local history.
This hardback book was printed in 1991 in Monterrey, N.L, Mexico and has many photographs but it does not have an ISBN number.
They let me borrow this book and will allow me to present it to our next Northern California meeting to be held in July in Brentwood Ca.They might also consider attending this meeting with me if their schedule allows it. If there are any of you out there from the Nochistlan area or any other town mentioned below that are interested in research of this area, this book is full of family and histrorical data.

Some of the other Zacatecas towns are Apulco, Jalpa, Toyahua, Tenayuca, Cofradia de la Animas and Tlachichila. It also includes families from Mexticacan, Yahualica, Jalostitlan, Tepatitlan and Teocaltiche Jalisco as well as Aguascalientes. It lists property owners, Census records, death, marriage, baptism and church records, slavery in Nochistlan and much local and regional history since the founding of this city.

That's all for now,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo

Sorry,

That Brickwall workshop will be on April 13, not April 23 and it is free.

Alicia

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
For anyone living in the Seattle area there will be a workshop on April 23 at the NARA facility. See the link below.

Saludos,
Alicia

http://www.archives.gov/pacific-alaska/seattle/public/workshops.html

I am listening to a book on tape called "Havanna Dreams." It has a lot
of Cuba's history in it as related to Fidel Castro. One section was
talking about this dish that was named in such a way that it sounded
like it had Racial Overtones. The black bean and rice dish was called
"Moros y Christianos" or something like that.

Has anyone ever heard of this or other foods that had reference to Race?

joseph