double surnames

I think I can explain a few things about the double
surname issue.
 
The last names were established to distinguish a person.
They are the ultimate ID. The last name allows to determine who that person
belongs to. The use of the "de" and the "y" are essentially that. That
person belongs to this group and that group. It could be a family, or
an earlier time even a location, etc. It was the tradition. In some
regions that continue to this day (specially Spain). The use of the "de" and the
"y" alone doesn't mean "nobility". It is possible, but in some regions that was
only a tradition for every member. The only thing  that it shows was that
the person had 2 groups he wanted to be related to.
 
The last names have been the product of an evolution. Now,
we know that the 1st last name is the father's and the second last name is the
mother's, but before, like many of us noticed that wasn't the case. You really
could pick and choose how you wanted to be recognized. Who
you

Pinedo Family

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073"  wrote:
>
> Ed,
> 
> It is probably not the same Diego Pinedo they you speak of, but I was 
> just wondering if you have additional information on this couple.
> 
> Diego PINEDO married to Juana DE ESCOVEDO.  They had at least one 
> daughter, Augustina PINEDO. She married on 15 Sep 1734 in San Luis, 
> Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico Juan DE AYON, son of Nicolas DE AYON and 
> Petra DE LA MADERA.  This couple had at least five children.
> 
> Thanks,
> Angie
 
Angie,

I unfortunately do not have much information regarding Pinedos. You might ask Arturo 
Ramos who has both Pinedo and Escobedo family ancestors; he already has an amazing 
collection of data.

Ed






double surnames

Mmmmm Since this subject started I've thought about
the Novela that I'm watching "Alborada" . . .  The prestigious noble family
is Manrique y Arellano. So, this might be a dumb question but maybe the "Y" was
used for noble families such as: Counts, Dukes, etc.?



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Irma
GomezLucero
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:38 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ranchos] Re: double
surnames

Great questions,
Emilie.  I've often wondered about all that.  From what I read, our
Spanish ancestors came here to either get away from persecution (Sephardic Jews)
or poverty.  It seems this was an opportunity to better themselves, and
perhaps take on new identities.  The French would utilize "de" to denote
nobility.  I wonder if our ancestors also tried to appear as noble
too.
Irma



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emilie
Garcia
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6

double surnames

Great questions,
Emilie.  I've often wondered about all that.  From what I read, our
Spanish ancestors came here to either get away from persecution (Sephardic Jews)
or poverty.  It seems this was an opportunity to better themselves, and
perhaps take on new identities.  The French would utilize "de" to denote
nobility.  I wonder if our ancestors also tried to appear as noble
too.
Irma



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emilie
Garcia
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:02 PM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: double
surnames

I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico.  I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place?  Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague".  There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name.  However, I have no idea when that

double surnames

I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico.  I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place?  Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague".  There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name.  However, I have no idea when that town was founded and if my
ancestors came from there.  They were Basque, that I know. 
 
Also, I find that many of my ancestors in Zacatecas used surnames
interchangeably.  My Tinajeros used the surnames Felix, Flores or Suriano
often but there was not consistency (it would change from one generation to
another and then back again), and my Matas, Valdeses and Pereses used those
names interchangeably as did my Escovedo/de la Torre and Quijas/Berumen
lines.  Could it be that since only a handful of surnames were used in each
community, that the people there were confused as to what their

Double surnames

Use of the "de" in double surnames.

My wife was a Mexican citizen living in Mexico when I married her.  
Her maiden name was: Isaura Martinez Vallejo.  Martinez was her 
father's last name and Vallejo her mother's.   After we got married 
and she was processing her papers to become a legal resident, her 
name became: Isaura Martinez Vallejo de Gonzalez.  The part "de 
Gonzalez" was added to designate her marriage to a "Gonzalez" That 
is how her name appears on her Green Card and also on her Mexican 
Passport. Once in the United States, she only uses Isaura Gonzalez, 
and that is how it appears on her American Passport and all of her 
legal documents. She is a U.S. Citizen now. 

I lived in Mexico for 10 years and noticed that that was the costum 
( law ? very possible, since that is how it used on official 
documents ) "de" is used like Mrs. is used here.

I believe "de" was also used in a different way when it was part of 
a name of a MALE to designate his place of origin.  Rodrigo

Chicken Soup for the Latino Soul



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Oral History



Chic

double surnames

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:45
AM
Subject: [ranchos] Re: double
surnames

Linda:

I got some persepective on this issue from
Mssrs. de la Torre Berumen
and Valdes Salazar while I was down in
Mexico.

Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence, President
Vicente
Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all Spaniards be expelled
from
Mexico.  In reality, many were exempted but certainly all of
those who
had been loyalists during the war of independence and those that
had
royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were
expelled.

Those Spanish families that remained became weary of being
labeled
Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and thus those

with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or "Fernandez de Jara

Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to mexicanize them.  I

think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they dropped

double surnames





Chris Pineda wrote:

I too have come across instances in the 1500s and
1600s where some siblings took on the surname of their
father and others, their mother's. I have heard some
of the following explanations to account for this:

1)Perhaps their mother's line was more distinguished,
particularly if she was the daughter or grandaughter
of someone famous;

2)Perhaps their father had committed some crime and
some of his children did not want to be associated
with his name;

3)Perhaps the father's line/surname was associated as
being Sephardic and some children wished to disguise
this fact, particularly when the Inquisition came to
Mexico.

I'm wondering about this possibility. It is my understanding that to be
full Spanish was better than Mestizo. so maybe if the mother was
thought to be more full blooded spanish they chose to use that name
because the genealogy would show this to be true, whereas maybe with
the father the lines were more complicated or maybe he was even a "Hijo

Pinedo Family

Ed,

It is probably not the same Diego Pinedo they you speak of, but I was 
just wondering if you have additional information on this couple.

Diego PINEDO married to Juana DE ESCOVEDO.  They had at least one 
daughter, Augustina PINEDO. She married on 15 Sep 1734 in San Luis, 
Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico Juan DE AYON, son of Nicolas DE AYON and 
Petra DE LA MADERA.  This couple had at least five children.

Thanks,
Angie

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros"  wrote:
> Jessica,
> 
> I have been trying to figure out how to respond to you and to 
Arturo's comments. I agree 
> with what Arturo has said in general. The Valparaiso data is 
indexed well in the Mormon 
> films after about 1880, so it is fairly straight forward after 
those dates; the Internet IGI 
> (familysearch.org data) is another story and is sparse to say the 
least. Before 1880 it is a 
> real crap-shoot, at least for me. My families came in and out of 
the Valparaiso area and I 
> sometimes wonder if

New file uploaded to ranchos

Hello All,

I have added new families to my genealogy over the last year, so I 
decided to update all my files.

Take a look and let me know if you recoginize a name...

Angie Godina


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
> group.
> 
>   File        : /Angie Godina /Angies_Genealogy.htm 
>   Uploaded by : aajay1073  
>   Description : Surname and Location List 
> 
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%
3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/Angies_Genealogy.htm 
> 
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> 
> Regards,
> 
> aajay1073 
>





New file uploaded to ranchos

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Angie Godina /Angies_Genealogy.htm 
  Uploaded by : aajay1073  
  Description : Surname and Location List 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/Angies_Genealogy.htm 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

aajay1073 
 







double surnames

I too have come across instances in the 1500s and
1600s where some siblings took on the surname of their
father and others, their mother's. I have heard some
of the following explanations to account for this:

1)Perhaps their mother's line was more distinguished,
particularly if she was the daughter or grandaughter
of someone famous;

2)Perhaps their father had committed some crime and
some of his children did not want to be associated
with his name;

3)Perhaps the father's line/surname was associated as
being Sephardic and some children wished to disguise
this fact, particularly when the Inquisition came to
Mexico.

Or perhaps it really was not that big a deal back then
to take on one parent's name over the other. I imagine
for most of the Spanish conquistadores and immigrants,
coming to the New World must have been a fluid time in
terms of identity--it was a rare chance to remake
themselves.

Chris Pineda   

--- Arturo Ramos  wrote:

> Linda:
> 
> I got some

double surnames

Linda:

I got some persepective on this issue from Mssrs. de la Torre Berumen 
and Valdes Salazar while I was down in Mexico.

Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence, President Vicente 
Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all Spaniards be expelled from 
Mexico.  In reality, many were exempted but certainly all of those who 
had been loyalists during the war of independence and those that had 
royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were expelled.

Those Spanish families that remained became weary of being labeled 
Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and thus those 
with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or "Fernandez de Jara 
Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to mexicanize them.  I 
think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they dropped.

On a similar note, I would appreciate hearing any perspectives people 
may have about how children chose whether to take on the mother's 
family name vs. the father's family name.  I have run across

double surnames

I'm hoping you can help me with double surnames.  Is there a 
difference when they use De or Y? Such as Alvares del Castillo or 
Ochoa y Garibay?  How long did they usually keep the double surname?  
I haven't found a reason why some families ended up using the surname 
they chose.. Villasenor y Jaso, some went Villasenor and others went 
Jaso.. same family!

I have gone from records in Tamazula Jalisco to Chilchota Michoacan.  
So many families from that part of Jalisco came from this area of 
Michoacan in the later 1700's.  In doing marriage records from there 
I'm finding it not unusual to have the actual marriage in the home of 
a family member, was that normal for the mid 1750's?
Linda in Everett





New Member/A personal perspective

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos"  wrote:
>
> Jessica:
> 
> I think you are going to have somewhat of a difficult time since I 
> think that the Valparaiso films are not indexed in familysearch.  I 
> know that Ed Serros is researching family in that parrish so he can 
> probably give you some better tips about what to do, but it may 
> entail simply ordering the films and going through them.  Many of the 
> books from the 19th century have indexes by name, so perhaps it is 
> not as daunting as it may seem.
> 
> Good luck.

Jessica,

I have been trying to figure out how to respond to you and to Arturo's comments. I agree 
with what Arturo has said in general. The Valparaiso data is indexed well in the Mormon 
films after about 1880, so it is fairly straight forward after those dates; the Internet IGI 
(familysearch.org data) is another story and is sparse to say the least. Before 1880 it is a 
real crap-shoot, at least for me. My families came in and

YNIGUES LINE

FELIZ AÑO ALICIA
THANKS FOR THE INFO ON JUAN YNIGUES,  YOU ARE MORE THAN LIKELY CORRECT ABOUT IT NOT BEING THE RIGHT TIME FRAME.  IN ANY CASE  IT'S WONDERFUL OF YOU TO DO THE LOOKUP.  WHO KNOWS PERHAPS THE INFO WILL HELP SOMEONE ELSE IN THE GROUP.   MIL GRACIAS  POR TU AYUDA
YOLANDA MEDINA PEREZ

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Yolanda,
Sorry it has taken me so long to do the lookup for you but here it is.
 
I have taken the following excerpts from Jose Luis's book relating to Juan Yñiguez. I don't believe he is the one you are looking for because the dates and the wife's name don't coincide but just to be on the safe side
I have noted all the pages with Juan Yñiguez and the facts pertaining to each page.
 
 
Page 73:  Juan Yñiguez, married to Maria Melchora de los Reyes, padron de año 1649, hijo de Juan Yñiguez y Andrea Cortes.
 
Page 73: In 1628, Ana de Santiago, hija de Juan Iñiguez y Andrea Cortez se caso con Nicolas Estrada, hijo de Xacome Xinoves (Yñiguez) y

Books to Review for the quarter

Joseph,
I agree that it may not be related and then again maybe it might, but I thought I would think out of the box and throw in a bit of controversy, although we did have a very brief discussion in Ranchos about Melungeons.
 
I selected books not only on their apparent merits but on cost, availablility and length of the book. It had to be affordable and accesible to all who were interested and not an extremely long read as many people work full time and have families to keep them pretty busy as it is. 
 
I encourage all Ranchos members to read over the brief summaries and place your votes.
 
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
 

Joseph Puentes wrote:

those books looked good to me. make sure to tape
the discussion and I
can make it part of the Nuestra Familia Unida "book discussion" section
[that is if the members vote on this and say yes].

Also the Melungeons book was questionable. Interesting topic but not
related. . .well I guess its possibly related, but only in

Books to Review for the quarter

those books looked good to me. make sure to tape the discussion and I
can make it part of the Nuestra Familia Unida "book discussion" section
[that is if the members vote on this and say yes].


Also the Melungeons book was questionable. Interesting topic but not
related. . .well I guess its possibly related, but only in a speculative
way. It is possible that some of the original people that were slaves on
Drake's ships were Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish, Moors, or other
Mediterranean ethnicity's.


joseph





New Member

Jessica:

I think you are going to have somewhat of a difficult time since I 
think that the Valparaiso films are not indexed in familysearch.  I 
know that Ed Serros is researching family in that parrish so he can 
probably give you some better tips about what to do, but it may 
entail simply ordering the films and going through them.  Many of the 
books from the 19th century have indexes by name, so perhaps it is 
not as daunting as it may seem.

Good luck.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "jesscast1212"  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> My name is Jessica Castaneda. I am just starting to try and do 
> genealogy research on my husbands family from Zacatecas, Mexico. I 
> have worked on my lines before but I feel I am in a completely new 
> ballpark now. I have been reading your postings and am excited to 
be 
> able to learn from you all. A little bit about myself- I have a one 
> year old who is currently teething, my husband and I are in the 
> process of buying a house and

Books to Review for the quarter

Items in Your Wish List: 8 You can place up to 25 items in your Wish List.
Remove Description Availability Cart
Underdogs
Mariano Azuela, E. Munguia (Translator), Ana Castillo (Introduction)
Format: Mass Market Paperback
ISBN: 0451526252
Price: $6.95
Usually ships within 24 hours
The Melungeons: The Resurrection of a Proud People. An Untold Story of Ethnic Cleansing in America
N. Brent Kennedy, Robyn Vaughan Kennedy
Format: Paperback
ISBN: 0865545162
Price: $17.95
Usually ships within 24 hours
Same Day delivery in Manhattan
The Broken Spears: The Aztec Account of the Conquest of Mexico
Miguel Leon-Portillo, Foreword by J. Jorge De Alva, Foreword by J. Jorge Klor De Alva
Format: Paperback
ISBN: 0807055018
Price: $18.00
Usually ships within 24 hours
Same Day delivery in Manhattan
Becoming Mexican American:
Ethnicity, Culture, and Identity in Chicano Los Angeles, 1900-1945

George J. Sanchez, Gonzalo J. Sanchez, Charles Bergquist

New Member

Hi all,
My name is Jessica Castaneda. I am just starting to try and do 
genealogy research on my husbands family from Zacatecas, Mexico. I 
have worked on my lines before but I feel I am in a completely new 
ballpark now. I have been reading your postings and am excited to be 
able to learn from you all. A little bit about myself- I have a one 
year old who is currently teething, my husband and I are in the 
process of buying a house and moving, and I work coordinating 
educational programs from migrant children in TN. I met my husband 
teaching English.That's enough about me.. What I know about my 
husbands family is this. (not much)

His fathers name is Crescencio Castaneda-Salazar. Mothers name is 
Juana Hernandez de Leon. They currently reside in Chihuahua but his 
father was born in Valparaiso Zacatecas Mexico. Crescenio's father 
was Antonio Castaneda-Dominguez although some say it was Castaneda-
Martinez. His wife's name was (this is where it gets confusing) some 
say Teodora

Database Who's Who/Jan. 31, 2006

I just checked the database looking for those researching certain areas
and couldn't find the info I needed. Can you all make it a point to go
to the database and make your entry into the 'who's who' area? we have
112 members but should be under 100 members after the 31st when the
following addresses get unsubscribed from the group. That means that if
we have 64 entries there are 36 valid members of the group that still
need to enter their who's who information. Its easy and helpful to new
members.


joseph

ps: the following are on track to be unsubscribed if I don't get a
simple email letting me know you are interested in maintaining your
membership and giving me a time frame when you will send in your
representative genealogy file:


   amador_flore...     zapOgram@...

   artalbec     artalbec@...

   cristal828     cristal828@...

   ftworthtexgo... TexGonzales@...

   hugz803     hugz803@...

   jmdldsmty     jmdldsmty@...

   josealfredod...     jjetmech01@...

Message Archives

hmmm, well maybe later I'll have time to do a little figuring on this.
it says something about downloading PERL and at that point my eyes
glazed over.



I do want to copy and save the message archives because one day I can
see the need to get off of Yahoo. I wonder how many megs of memory our
message archives will take up?



thanks Arturo, the answer is here, I'll just have to get to it sometime.



joseph





Arturo Ramos wrote:

Joseph:

There is software that extracts out Yahoo Group messages into mbox 
format, which can then be read by a number of other software programs:

http://www.tt-solutions.com/en/products/yahoo2mbox/

I think there are also commercial (need to buy software) solutions that 
may do the same.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
  
I have a concern and was hoping some of the more tech savy members of 
the group could help me with. I don't know how to "save" the message 
archives to another location short of opening each

YNIGUES LINE

Yolanda,
Sorry it has taken me so long to do the lookup for you but here it is.
 
I have taken the following excerpts from Jose Luis's book relating to Juan Yñiguez. I don't believe he is the one you are looking for because the dates and the wife's name don't coincide but just to be on the safe side I have noted all the pages with Juan Yñiguez and the facts pertaining to each page.
 
 
Page 73:  Juan Yñiguez, married to Maria Melchora de los Reyes, padron de año 1649, hijo de Juan Yñiguez y Andrea Cortes.
 
Page 73: In 1628, Ana de Santiago, hija de Juan Iñiguez y Andrea Cortez se caso con Nicolas Estrada, hijo de Xacome Xinoves (Yñiguez) y de Maria de Estrada.
 
Page 82: En 12 Sept 1628 Juan Yñiguez y su esposa Andrea Cortes fueron padrinos de matrimonio en Mezquiticacan de
Don Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ulloa y Doña Juana Lomelin, hija de Carlos Lomelin y Maria de Benavides, su mujer.
 
Page 113: In 1690, Juan Yñiguez was witness to the marriage of Lorenzo de Torres & Maria