Nuestros Ranchos Site

Pleito de Rodrigo Hidalgo, de Toro (Zamora) 
Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Antonio de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Diego Arias de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) Sobre Rodrigo Hidalgo, administrador durante 24 años de Guiomar de Sotelo y su marido Francisco Martínez de Tordesillas, contra el capitán Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo y Antonio de Sotelo, como testamentarios de la dicha Guiomar y contra Diego Arias de Sotelo como donatario de sus bienes para que le paguen los 120.000 maravedíes que la dicha Guiomar le dejó mandados en un codicilo antes de morir por los servicios prestados en esos 24 años.

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

From primary sources found on PARES, I had originally posted the following information, but I found another source that gives different information that you can see in the corrections on the bottom ancestral line.

original post:
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2)- Payo Sotelo and Ysabel Ruiz

3)-Diego Sotelo “el Viejo” and Ynes Sedeño had many children. The two named in this document are:

3.1)-Luis Sotelo de Rivera
3,2)-Payo Sotelo Nar’uaez (Narváez)

and 
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2.)-Juan Sotelo. Who Is the father of

Payo Sotelo de Ribera, Tomas Sotelo de Ribera, and Eugenio Sotelo de Ribera

=====///////////////////////

New post
Corrections :  different wife for #1 (Francisca Soto), Payo senior and Francisca are grandparents of Juan Sotelo. Payo Sotelo (junior) who is married to Ysabel Ruiz are the parents of Juan Sotelo.

so what I gather from this is that Francisca Soto is a first wife, and that Juana Herrera is the last wife.  Here is a document testamento de Payo Rodriguez de Sotelo and Juana Herrera: Testamento de Payo Rodriguez Sotelo y Juana de Herrera. 

This is what the Ejecutario de Villadolid dated 2/May/1587 presented by Juan Sotelo says:

1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Francisca Soto.

2)- Payo Sotelo and Ysabel Ruiz

3)- Juan Sotelo and Catalina de San Miguel

          3.1)- Payo Sotelo de Ribera, 

          3.2)- Tomas Sotelo de Ribera, and 

          3.3)- Eugenio Sotelo de Ribera

So there are two primary sources naming different mothers for Payo Sotelo married to Ysabel Ruiz,  and Juan Sotelo is the brother of Diego Sotelo “el Viejo” that is married to Ynes Sedeño. The brothers Payo, Tomas , and Eugenio are repeatedly listed in this order so I am assuming that they are listed by age.

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

From a document that I read, the Sotelo surname came about because they came from the Villa de Sotelo. The document implies that before arriving at San Miguel de Ribera that the “Sotelo” were known by a different surname. I was wondering if they meant a name other than “Arias.” This change in surname was common in those times. While searching to see if I could find the other surname I came across some more Reynosos in San Miguel de Rivera.

Diego Arias de Yerba married to Isabel Reynoso sister of Antonio Reynoso

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/3997817?nm

Gracias por tu trabajo Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

Dear Erik,

I found another Diego Sotelo el viejo in San Miguel de Ribera alive about the same time as the Diego Sotelo that is the ancestor of our Diego Arias de Sotelo. He is listed as having a father with a different name than the one that you found.

Rick A. Ricci

Dear Erik,

You gave me enough information to send me digging for Antonio Sotelo’s parents. I believe I have found them in a document stating the hidalguia of a couple of cousins of Antonio Sotelo. I won’t post the information here as I want to keeep up the suspense for your book. And I may be wrong, and this is another branch of the Sotelo family. The document that I found doesn’t mention Antonio, but with what I already know about the family, plus what the information you provided, I believe that I have filled in a couple of blanks. I will download all of the document pages and send them to you later this week.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Estimado Erik,

I will be sending you some information that may help you in your research. I have some information on the ancestry of Lope Sotelo’s wife Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera. I put this ancestry together by compiling from different secondary sources.

1) Gonzalo López de Ribera m. Teresa Vasquez de Meira
2) Lope López de Ribera m. Maria Afan
3) Ruy (Rodrigo) López de Ribera m. Inés de Sotomayor
4) Per Afán de Ribera “el Viejo” m. Maria Rodríguez Marino (first wife)
5) Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera m. Lope de Sotelo
6) Pero (Pedro) Sotelo m. Inés Cisneros
7) Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros

=====================================================================

1)King Alfonso IX de Leon and Aldonza Martins De Silva
2)Rodrigo Alfonso de Leon, Señor de Aliger m. Ines Rodríguez de Cabrera
3)Sancha Alfonso de Leon m. Lope Sánchez Señor de Valenzuela y Jodar
4)Sancha Martinez de Jodar, conquistador del Castillo de Jodar m. Berenguela de Cabrera
5)Juana Rodríguez de Jodar m. Garcia Mendez de Sotomayor
6) Ruy Mendez de Sotomayor
7)Inés de Sotomayor m. Ruy (Rodrigo) López de Ribera
8) Per Afán de Ribera “el Viejo” m. Maria Rodríguez Marino (first wife)
9)Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera m. Lope de Sotelo.
10) Pero (Pedro) Sotelo m. Inés Cisneros
11)Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros

You may also want to check out Antonio de Sotelo y Cisneros’s “testamentos”.
1) Copia del testamento Abierto de Don Antonio Sotelo y Cisneros. Arch. De la Mitra., Leg 161, C-1, doc 1.v.
2) Copia del testamento Cerrado de Don Antonio Sotelo y Cisneros. A.H.P. Leg 499, año 1548,fol. 307

Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera es prima tercera de Leonor la esposa de Enrique Guzman, duque de Medina Sidonia

Muchas Gracias Erik
Rick A. Ricci

Dear Leon de Tejada

I am so happy you are writing a book on the family of Diego Arias de Sotelo! Thanks for sharing new info here in NR!
The thread which Rick has provided (in this thread) will show you what else has turned up in our (NR members) searches/research, there could be references and links there which you might find helpful.

I look forward to reading your book!

Best Regards
Denise Fastrup

El 16 de abril de 1550, Guiomar de Herrezuelo, viuda de Andrés de Sotelo, capitán, vecina de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora), litiga contra el concejo de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) y el fiscal de Real Chancillería Ibargüen, sobre exención de impuestos

Estimado Erik,

What a week! This same week that you post Diego Aria de Sotelo’s, I found out that I descend from Pedro Arais Dávila. In a letter from Diego’s father to his son, Pedro Arias de Avila was mentioned. Ever since I learned of this letter I unsuccessfully searched for the Sotelo Cisnero family connection. Now that we now that his paternal grandfather has a different ancestry, it is possible that we may finally find the family connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila.

A couple of years ago a group of us mentioned in a thread that we had doubt regarding Antonio’s ancestry so it is great that you finally found proof of his true ancestry.

Here is the location of the thread where we discussed his ancestry, his connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila, and the Arias Sotelo Cisneros family:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24399?page=2

Thanks again Erik for sharing your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

Yo he estudiado muchos de los primos de los Sotelo, acumulando historias de esta familia que tuvo un gran impacto en el pleito religioso de ese tiempo sobre las enseñansas de Erasmus sobre Cristianismo. Es terible como la inquisición atacó muchos miembros de esta familia no mas por juntarse para estudiar la Biblia y darle gracias a dios. Fueron acusados de estudiar la Biblia demasiado y de juntarse a darle gracias a Dios y seguir las enseñanzas de Erasmus. Espero con mucha anticipación y alegría los resultados de tu investigación.

Como escribiste una vez, hacemos buen mancuerna en nuestros estudios.

Muchísimas Gracias Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.   Her  father is identified as Diego Hurtado de Mendoza from a document not in my possession. What I know about this Diego is his parents and siblings, was single when he came over, who he came over with, and who he worked for. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know how he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America.  I have not seen the document that states that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is her father, and that is why I searched everywhere for her ancestry.   What I have put together is Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s ancestry.  I would like to read this document to see if I can find more information.

I also put together an ancestry of Isabel De Mendoza Velasco who also fits the timetable for our Isabel Mendoza.  This Isabel Mendoza Velasco is mistakenly listed in genealogical tables as becoming a nun when her aunt with the same name is the one who became a nun. But this Isabel de Mendoza Velasco does not have native Indian ancestry so this makes her unlikely to be the Isabel Mendoza married to Toribio Hernandez de Arellano. 

More research still needs to be done before I publish my findings on this family. 

Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is related to many of the other Conquistadors. 

Rick A. Ricci

There is no mention of the name of Isabel Mendoza de Hurtado’s mother.  I believe that she may have been a native.   Her father is mentioned coming over from Spain and his duties, but there is no mention of a wife.   

Rick A. Ricci
 

Mr. Ricci there is a Hurtado de Mendoza on wikipedia married to a De Luna
and his father Diego Hurtado de Medoza was also married to a De Luna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8D%C3%B1igo_L%C3%B3pez_de_Mendoza_y_L…

Danny C. Alonso

I have only seen the term 'criollo' used to mean place of birth or origin and not used to signify caste. Of the records that include the term 'criollo' for a person it will also include the person's caste (español, mestizo, indio, mulato.

Saludos,

Austin Pérez

"...mestiso soltero i criollo de esta villa..."

In this instance, as well as in the other records on the same page, the writer used the word criollo to mean originario (autóctono o nativo de esta villa de Lagos), and not in the usual sense related to the castas colonial that one typically sees in these records.

Joseph, thank you for sharing this incredible story, and thank you, all: Joseph, Lee, Rosalinda, Wesley and Arturo for the work and time you placed into this site. I'm happy to contribute monetarily once a means to do so is established.

Best regards,

Travis

Hello Eric,

I too have wondered about the document that people have said exists that identifies Diego Hurtado de Mendoza as a relative of the Viceroy and father of Isabel Mendoza. This Diego Hurtado de Mendoza came over as criado of the Bishop. He was single when he came over, and the question remains on whether he traveled back and forth from Spain, or if he just stayed in Mexico after his first trip.  I believe he made more than one trip as the date of birth of Isabel is given by most genealogists as mid to late 1530’s.  If he really is her father then he would have had to come to Mexico earlier than his trip to Mexico in the early 1550’s. Because this Diego is connected to the viceroy, I believe that he worked first for him and that is why he most likely made more than one trip between Spain and Mexico. If he traveled  back and forth across the Atlantic Ocean as representative of the Viceroy and the Bishop, then that could possibly explain why there is not much written about his life in Mexico.

And this Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is a cousin of the Ruy Diaz de Mendoza that is an ancestor of many people in New Mexico. Another cousin traveled to South America and left many descendants there. While working on both separate projects on identifying their ancestry the projects converged, with me first discovering Ruy’s true parents and grandparents, and then discovering that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is in that close family tree.

The actual details of their ancestry will take pages.   Please let me know if you can get access to that document, as I have asked for that specific document for over two decades, but no one has given details on where to find it.

The evidence that I have is only for Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s ancestry, the Diego that was a criado of the bishop.   I don’t have the document that states that he is Isabel’s father so I can’t study it to find out what it actually says.  So until we can get a hold of that document we are left wondering.

Merry Christmas,

Rick A. Ricci

Source: my book, Mygenes2000

I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.  The Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that was identified as her father came over from Spain.   Diego was single when he came over and little is known about him except who he came over with and who he worked for.  I don’t have proof that he was her father, but he is the Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that a document said was her father. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know Diego’s ancestry and he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America. It is clear that Isabel’s mother was native or a mestiza.  I do not know the identity of Isabel’s mother.

Rick A. Ricci

Thank you Erik for sharing this interesting theory. 

Hoping to hear more on this research. I have also been following with great interest your recent thread on Toribio Hernández de Arellano and the possible connection to the Hernández family from Salamanca. No doubt that further evidence will emerge to confirm this association. 

Best regards, 

Tristán Díaz de León

Sometime ago I read your findings on Diego Delgado, his wife and family in law. At the time I didn`t realize that Juan Diaz, his father in law happened to be one of the founders of Celaya on January 1st, 1571 (There are no other mentions to a Juan Diaz in the area until at least 1611, and this one was married to a certain Agustina Rodriguez, mestiza and he himself apparently a mestizo, and they both lived in the village of San Miguel in 1614). He and the other founders were granted land at the beginning of 1574 and they made the commitment to keep them for, at least, ten years, but by 1582 he had sold his. This might have happened probably because he was a master shoemaker and not a labrador, and it can also be the reason why he moved to San Luis Potosí.

The founder of Celaya were 30, and they had to be, and actually were, heads of family, i.e. at least married, and in most cases had children. This means that it was highly probable that they were all above 20 years of age. That would most probably made him born on or before 1550, and that's why I doubt some of the facts ttributed to him by RMB, because by the dates he's mentioned by RMB the whole of Celaya's founders on whom there is information were dead (El 6 de febrero de 1618 ante la fe de Juan de Trujillo, escribano real, junto con Pedro Vallejo, maestro zapatero fungió como testigo en la escritura pública de compra-venta de un esclavo negro que vendió Francisco Rodríguez Serrano, maestro de zapatero a Gerónimo de León, panadero. En diciembre de 1623, su nombre aparece, entre otros, como deudor a la sucesión testamentaria de Juan de Elorza. El 27 de octubre de 1655, se constituyó como fiador por la cantidad de 500 pesos en favor de Juan Enríquez, en quien se remató por el Muy Ilustre Ayuntamiento el oficio de depositario general. El 26 de marzo de 1662 junto con su hermano otorgó escritura de reconocimiento de adeudo por la cantidad de 2000 pesos a favor del general León de Alza, representado por Francisco de Alcorta.). He could't be the son of Jerónimo Díaz and nephew of Francisco Román.I'm sure that RMB confiused Diwego Delgado's father in law with another Juan Diaz, which happens to be a very common name.

Juan Díaz appears as a cofrade in the "Testimonio de las constituciones de la archicofradía del Santísimo Sacramento, fundada en la iglesia parrochial del señor San Francisco de esta ciudad de Celaya el año de 1574", kept at the Archives of the Franciscan Province of Michoacan.  In the same archives apperas the following: "Mencía Meléndez, viuda de Bartolomé de Losa, dice, en una cláusula de su testamento, que pasó ante Pedro Téllez de Fonseca a los 30 de enero de 1582, que dicho su marido dejó, por su fin y muerte, cinco caballerías de tierra, las dos y media que compró de Juan Díaz y las otras dos y media que le fueron dadas por su vecindad, con cuatro días de agua, con mas caballería y media de tierra que se compró de Miguel Sánchez y se metió en la dicha hacienda." as well as "… es linde con tierras de Gonzalo Díaz e con tierras de su madre del dicho Pedro Meléndez, que la dicha media caballería de tierras es dentro de las tierras de Alejos de Losa, hermano del dicho Pedro Meléndez, y siendo dentro de las tierras del dicho Alejos de Losa, prestando consentimiento para ello, están sin perjuicio y se le puede hacer la merced que pide por estar la dicha merced a otro de esta villa, que es a Juan Díaz, de quien la recibió y compró Bartolomé de Losa, padre del dicho Pedro Meléndez, ..."

I would very much appreciatte if you could tell the me links to Francisca Gallegos testament.

Best regards,

Héctor

Great Job Manny! I love your posts!

I am sorry I cannot answer your question, but I do want to give you information (In case you don't have it) about one of your Delgado ancestors.

I came across this while researching my own Delgado line from Tlaltenango and Atolinga, Zacatecas.

Juan Delgado is in the following book "Spain's Patriots of Northwestern New Spain" the link follows:

http://www.somosprimos.com/hough/nwus.pdf

He is listed among the Spanish Patriots who fought against England during the American Revolution. He is listed alphabetically on page 48 on the pdf document. He was son of Bartolome Delgado, who was son of Francisco Delgado, who was son of Diego Delgado as you previously posted.

Other helpful links.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5F8-DQV
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5FZ-KNN

I hope this helps your research.

Ruben

Can you cite a primary source?   A few years ago a genealogist that lived in Colorado did much research on this line, and she could not find any primary sources.  

I have seen that many people take it as a given, but I still would like to see a primary source.   

Hello Rick

I understand your skepticism. My friend looked into my genealogy, and got back to me a few days later saying I was related to Manuel the 1st saying he needs to take a knee and kiss the ring next time he see's me stuff like that.  I thought he was pulling my leg and decided to look into it and prove him wrong.

The more I looked into it the more it made sense. King Manuals 1 son  Luís Duke of Beja of Portugal never married Violante Gomez or at least there is no record of it. She was labelled a Converso from Jewish to Christianity after the Christian Reconquista  of Spain. as a result their children were considered illegitimate. The church was reluctant to marry a Converso or baptize a converso child. The name "Gomez de Portugal". comes from Violante Gomez, and the de Portugal part comes from Luis Duke of Beja of Portugal. 

This is link to one of the sources I found.

  https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/mcdonald-family-site/I509485.php

Thanks

David M.

I have never seen the evidence as to who his father is.   Though I did see that he descended from a Jewish woman.  The thing is that when I see the posts that say his father was the king they list someone that wasn’t his mother. 

Rick A. Ricci

After reading your post I could not see a link to my paternal Munoz line. 

One name that I noticed was Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal. 

One of the founders of Lagos De Moreno was man named Juan Gomes de Portugal or Capitan Juan Gomes de Portugal. He was married to Cathalina LOPEZ de la MAdrid de la Cuadra y de NAVA Lopez.

They got married about 1558 at Spain.

Juan was the illegitimate grandson of Manuel1st king of Portugal. Juan had up to 17 children. 

When I see the name ending with Gomez de Portugal in the Lagos de Moreno area I assume there is a link to Capitan Juan and his link to royalty.

Good luck on your hunt!

David M.

Dear Manny, 

Thank you for these insights !

I am curious about how you were able to confirm that Francisca de Ortega was indeed the daughter of Luis Maldonado (himself the son of Luis Maldonado and Inés Sánchez de Ortega). Based on your previous comments on the topic (above), I had understood that we were still uncertain which Luis Maldonado was her father. How did you arrive to this conclusion ?

Kind regards

Tristán Díaz de León

Dear all,

I have identified a new document regarding Juan Díaz de León which is dated 1603 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SSZT?view=fullText&keywords=Juan%20D%C3%ADaz%20de%20Le%C3%B3n&lang=fr&groupId=

I'm afraid I can't read it but it seems that it concerns Francisca de Ortega as well. Could someone try to understand the topic of this document ? 

Tristan Díaz de León

I am also related to Juan Diaz de Leon and his daughter Maria Ortega. I've been doing work in San Luis Potosi and Guanajuato. I've noticed the city of San Luis Potosi in San Luis Potosi has been people from Sierra de Pinos.

Great work.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Hola primos!

Amazing the amount of work all of you have put in and I have learned so much as far as the lineage but I would like to learn more as to who these people are. I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo" and his son "El Mozo", and then  Andres DDL. I was wondering if anyone had information as to what their Juan's role was in regards to Pinos? I know his name is on the map in 1603 and owned some mines, but is there any other info anyone else can share? 

Thank you so much!

Rosendo Gutierrez-Diaz

Hello Manny,

When I was a kid, family members would say that Vikki Carr was a distant cousin of ours. I did her family tree and found that she is repeatedlyrelated to my family as she has ancestors from all over Los Altos de Jalisco. I wanted to let you know that she also descends from Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carillo.

Vikki Carr was her stage name. Part of her father’s ancestral family was mainly from Los Altos de Jalisco, and the other part was mainly from the state of New Mexico. She is also is related to coach Tom Flores through her Altos de Jalisco ancestral roots and is related to quarterback Jim Plunkett through her New Mexico ancestral roots.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello everyone,

I have a small information that could be useful in the origins of Diaz de Leon family. As we all know now Juan Diaz de Leon, El viejo, was from the city of Ayamonte. While searching for his license to New Spain, i found a document called "Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Isabel de León, criada del licenciado Alonso de Villalba, natural de Ayamonte, hija de Francisco Hernández Cataño e Isabel Díaz de León, a Charcas." The document is dated 1603 which is the same year as when Juan Diaz de Leon was registered in Pinos's map. I think this might be a lead on Juan Diaz de Leon's origins.

Tristan Diaz de Leon

Puedo decir que el año de su nacimiento esta alrededor de 1591 según su testamento fechado el 25 de agosto de 1655 en la ciudad de San Luis Potosí, dejo el siguiente fuente y link para su valoración:

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHWT?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 55 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6YR?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 56 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6KV?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 57 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

Saludos Familia descendiente de Díaz de León.

Atte. Jean H. Tavera 12va. Generación Descendiente de Juan Díaz de León.

Hello, Manny.

Glad to see your interest in San Luis Potosi where I was surprised to find several of my lines (Galvan, de la Cerda, Diaz Infante, Montanez and Marquez to name a few). Here's a link to a research paper that may help you. It covers SLP testaments from 1642 to 1671. It's a summary report and I believe only those persons who died are named. There's a Diaz de Leon. Don't know if he is your line.

From time to time I will add files to my Dropbox GENEALOGY folder. It will be a mishmash of drafts, finished papers, Family Group Sheets, handwritten notes and extractions and just stuff that may help others.

Mary Lou

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Manny,

This is great work. Juan Diaz de Leon is my ancestor too. I wish I knew something to add, but I dont. I was curious though about the witnesses and other property owners in 1604, Diego Camacho and Juliana de Sotomayor and if you think they're related to the Martin Camacho/Martn de Sotomayor family.

Danny C. Alonso

Obispo Francisco Antonio Lorenzana dejo una herencia a los hijos de una señora(ita).   Despues dijeron que se Los hijos de dejo a unos huerfanos.  Deacendientes de el se vinieron a Watsonville y Ventura California.  Yo conozco un descendiente que vive en Camarillo 

I have seen "MA" used for mostly Maria, but also used for Mariana when transferred probably by LDS.

I also found one that was transcribed to Maxima, the MA may have looked like an MX on that one, but it turned out to be Mariana with cross referencing.

Hello Emilie.

Bernardo and Juana got married by church in "La Villa de Santa Rosalia" on Jan 09 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-DCD

Bernardo (20). Parents: Juan J. Carmona and Manuela Reyes.

Juana (17). Parents: Anastasio Ocon and Ricarda Burrola.

Anastasio and Ricarda got married in the same place on Jan 13 1862:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-HD4

Anastasio (20). Parents: Pedro Ocon and Placida Muñoz.

Ricarda (16). Parents: Salome Burrola and Mauricia Morales.

Is there a link to the document you are citing you could provide? I'll gladly help with the names of Bernardo's grandparents.

I see that page was not "INDEXED" .... but anyway I added as a source to Miguel Espinoa individual page.

This match popped up...... it all seems to line up except Maria Ygnacia's Nomeli mother's name is Vega and not Fernandes?   Could that marriage record just be wrong and her mother's surname is really Vega???

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/merge/verify/984G-FX5/GQ1W-2ZQ

can you provide the link.... I found some info and this may be your family but I could not find that wedding record:    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/984G-FX5

#2 and #3 are the same. The Mateo de Ruvalcaba signatures from both documents below match.

 11 Apr 1678. Jose Delgadillo (Diego Delgadillo & Petrona de Islas) sobrino de Mateo de Ruvalcaba. 

 10 Feb 1686. Mateo de Ruvalcaba vecino y casado, tío de la pretensa Leonor de Ortiz (Juan de Ruvalcaba & Catalina de Sena).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH55-L?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 64 of 662; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-THR6-Z?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 392 of 662; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

"he could easily have married Leonor de Lizardi after the death of his first wife (this timeline would also allow Leonor de Lizardi to be the same who was married to Juan de Sepulveda)." 

On 3 Nov 1660 in Mexticacan, the padrinos Antonio de Ruvalcaba y Josefa de Sepulveda su e…nada (?). Not sure what that word is, but likely some relationship meaning the same Leonor de Lizalde married Juan de Sepulveda and then married Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-G1NG-4?cc=1804458&wc=3P98-… : 13 December 2021), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1627-1686 > image 159 of 565; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

All,

One last link for Matheo in the Libros de Gobierno records.   This one dated 12 May 1677. 

This one is in Teocaltiche, and mentions Antonio Robalcava.  Also involving caballerias within the jurisdiction of Teocaltiche.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 4

Lee

Moco(a) means son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of someone of the same name right?

So Juana de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Mateo de Rucalcaba and Catalina Cortes (de Moscoso y Sandoval), could be named after her grandmother Juana de Isla (Lozano) wife of Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

 México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT19?cc=1804458&wc=MC7X-DM9%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C153551201 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Entierros 1667-1738 > image 45 of 400; parroquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

Matheo Rubalcava is again mentioned in the Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno records on 23 May 1676. Likely the same Matheo Rubalcava mentioned in the 1671 record that was posted earlier. He is still involved in Goverment affairs. No mention of Juan Rubalcava in this record, and this record mentions only Nochistlan, which is under Juchipila Jurisidiction. Jose Lopez Ramirez and Lazaro Guerrero are also mentioned.  Not sure what this record is about, but it does mention a cofradia and also indicates that Matheo is still a presence in this area in 1676.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 2

Again mentioned in 3 October 1676 records which involved 4 caballerias, I believe in Mexticacan, and noted in Juchipila Jurisdication. Bernadino de Yslas is also mentioned.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 3

Lee

Manny,

Nice summation of the many older Matheo's.   The link below is from the 1671 Zacatacas Libros de Gobierno (via Family Search). This Matheo is not the one who died before July of 1670, as this image (87 of 591) notes Matheo and Juan Rubalcava involved in this transaction when dated on 14 May 1671. It appears they were involved in some caballerias in Nochistlan and/or Aguascalientes jurisdictions.  Not sure how much help this is, since no genealogical information can be ascertained, but it does provide locations as to where they were located in the 1670's.  To be living in 1671 and in positions of authority, these two Rubalcava's were likely older, which lines up with those folks that have been so nicely summed up by you.  Not sure which one it could be, but could add more supporting info.

Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno Link

Lee

What many have probably already noticed, but I am not sure whether anyone has stated is that close relatives tend to be listed close together in confirmations, and since close relatives often times live close to each other they are also listed next to each other in padrones.

My guess is that the Magdalena Lozano viuda and the Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo are in-laws. 

1681 Teocaltiche padrones

• Marcos Yanez
• Magdalena Lozano su mujer
• Magdalena Lozano viuda

• Sebastian de Campos mestizo
• …….

• Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo
• Juan de Ruvalcaba mestizo 

Thank you Manny for great work! 

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

According to my research, which could be faulty, Francisca Flores de la Torre was my 10th ggaunt (Her sister, Angela, was my 10th gg.), but she was married to Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña.

Parents

Capitán Diego Fuentes Flores y Pérez de la Torre 1539-1616

Angela María Pacheco Rodríguez y Temiño de Velasco y Carbajal 1542--

Spouse

Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña 1555-

Sanchez-Castellanos

Claudia check this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15265-26849-50?cc=1410092&wc…

It looks like Hernando de Haro and Francisca Morillo

Claudia,
I'm not sure it's the same Hernando b:abt 1610, but I have him in my tree as a brother to Lorenzo de Miramontes y Haro (my 8th GGF). They were sons of Hernando de Haro Miramontes and Cecilia Lopez, m:abt 1629. The elder Hernando was the son of Juan Miramontes and Maria Haro y Saucedo.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-L4Q

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SYVJ-3DS

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-M74

Cecilia Lopez remarried on 25Oct1644 to Felipe Diaz de Santiago in Tlaltenango, Zacatacas.

Hope this was of some help.
Roy

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Caludia, cuando se casan Rodrigo Sanchez Castellanos de Rodas, hijo de Manuel Sanchez Castellanos de Haro y Josefa de Rodas el 1 de junio de 1684 (Dispensa matrimonial pagina 112 y Juana de Luna de Haro con 4to grado de consanguinidad, ponen a Tomasina de Haro (Tomasina de Saucedo) como prima hermana de Hernando de Haro.

Segun recuerdo Hernando de Haro era hijo de Juan de Miramontes y Maria de Haro y Saucedo, lo cual me parece extraño, ya que tuvo que haber otra mujer con apellidos Haro y Saucedo casada con un hermano de Juan de Miramontes.

He leido paginas donde incluso ponen a Heranando de Haro como hermano de Tomasina, pero la dispensa los pone como primos. No se que opinen? Si hay alguien que haya resuelto el misterio favor de decirnoslo.

Como siempre, muchas gracias por compartir estas valiosas y detalladas informaciones.

Anexo a la petición de Domingo de Onís y Vela se encuentra la información de limpieza de su esposa María Mancina que se hizo en el pueblo de Tlaltenango entre los meses de marzo y julio de 1685, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM9-3?cat=31792&….

Los testigos presentados fueron:

1. El capitán Lucas Rubio Abarca, español, vecino del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
2. Luis de Luna, español, vecino y natural [haber nacido] del partido de Tlaltenango, de 69 años de edad.
3. Bartolomé de Luna, español, vecino y natural del partido de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
4. Antonio de la O, español, vecino y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 70 años de edad.
5. Juan de Moreira, mulato libre, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 48 años de edad. Compadre de Jerónimo de Mancina y Magdalena de Rivera “…por haberle bautizado un hijo a este testigo…”
6. José Morillo, mulato libre, vecino del partido de Tlaltenango, natural del pueblo de Colotlán de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 70 años de edad.
7. Pablo de Casas, español, vecino de San Andrés del Astillero de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 67 años de edad.
8. Nicolás Díaz, español, vecino y natural del partido de Tlaltenango, de 60 años de edad.
9. André Martínez, español, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 60 años de edad poco más o menos.
10. Antonio Yáñez, mestizo, vecino del partido de Tlaltenango de más tiempo de 60 años y natural de la ciudad de Zacatecas, de edad de 80 años más o menos.
11. Diego de Cisneros, mestizo, natural de la ciudad de Zacatecas y asistente en la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango más tiempo de 65 años, de 87 años de edad, poco más o menos.
12. Nicolás Carrillo, español, natural de la villa de Jerez de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 54 años de edad poco más o menos.

También contiene copias de los expedientes de bautismo de María de Mancina: Tlaltenango, 25 de mayo de 1657, padrino Julián Sánchez de la Madriz; y de su madre Magdalena de Rivera: Tlaltenango, 25 de junio [julio] 1632, padrinos Lorenzo de Miramontes y Catalina González, su mujer, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM9-J?cat=31792&i=716&lang=es

Sergio, muchas gracias por compartir tus hallazgos.

La ciudad de Utre en Génova es conocida hoy como Voltri (Vötri o Ütri en la lengua ligur).

• Voltri - Wikipedia (es)

Yes Huejucar and Guejucar is the same place. It is a valley where Calvillo, Ojocaliente and Huanusco make up. This is an area of expertise for me. My mother's family was primarily from Calvillo (Huejucar), Aguascalientes and Mexico City.

Chema

Huejucar is a twon in Jalisco, not in Zacatecas, is near to Colotlan and Jerez.

If one is labeleled as español and the other mestizo, and they are labeled correctly, then they are most likely half - siblings   The probability is higher of finding first  a record naming the parents of Nicolasa Vásquez (d. bef1735) - Espanola,    And then use his parents as a focal point to find his half siblings Melchora de los Reyes parents 

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Dispensa for Marcos de Espitia and Anastasia de Quesada: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6X9P-5P

There is an earlier NR thread about this family. Some of the information is dated and has been proven incorrect, but there's some interesting info about Maria Rubio's possible origins: https://nuestrosranchos.org/node/22015

According to one of the contributors, Pedro Hernandez cc Maria Rubio were among the founders of Lagos de Moreno. This might help support that: on 3 Feb 1569, a Pedro Hernandez was granted a titulo y merced de un sitio de estancia para ganado mayor and a caballeria de tierra in the jurisdiction of Lagos. I don’t know if it’s the same man: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-J7ND-X?view=explo…

You might already have this, their son, Lic. Cristobal Gutierrez, founded a capellania in July 1621: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DGJH-Y?i=259&wc=3JWY-T…

It includes the distribution of the estate of Pedro Hernandez to his heirs, naming the entire family group, including spouses of those already married (Catalina Rubio cc Luis Lopez Ramirez, Maria Rubio cc Juan Belmont Rangel). Cristobal and Leonor Gutierrrez were still minors (under 25), so their guardian ad litem, Pablo Garcia Crespo, was present. They do an appraisal of the real & chattel properties, and then a breakdown of how it was distributed. Maria Rubio says her son, Cristobal Gutierrez, who was about 22 years old (b.1599) wants to be ordained, which she wants too, so she donates the farm and everything to him. In Jan 1626, he was already a clerigo de menores ordenes and intended to advance to sacerdote. I took the liberty of looking through the Guadalajara archives and found his ordenes, with the hope that they’d include a limpieza de sangre, but they don’t, other than witnesses agreeing that he and his parents were all “old christians”. It does mention that Pedro Fernandez throughout his life served as teniente de alcalde mayor, alcalde ordinario, and regidor of the Villa de los los Lagos, as well as mayordomo of the parish church: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DJBB-9?wc=3JW2-K68&lan…

I hope you find this helpful.
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo