Nuestros Ranchos Site

Nancy

Not infrequently, births in California were recorded without a given name, only last names.

My mother-in-law, born in 1925, in the Imperial Valley, CA actually added her name to her birth certificate when she was an adult.

My father-in-law, born in 1924 or 1925, picked a 1925 birth certificate (the other was for his brother who died as an infant), both of these had only surnames for the child. He took 1925 because it kept him out of the WW II draft for another year.

There are also gaps in the records as not every birth was recorded, even when required by law.

A similar situation may apply to your father. You might have better luck with the County Clerk, rather than Sacramento for the birth certificate.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Dear Nancy:
Have you tried researching the Sanchez Guerrero family? She might have been a godparent to some of the sibling's children, then you could place her. She could also have been a witness in one of the marriage investigations. Sometimes those auxiliary records can really help.

Maureen Bejar

Hello Nuestros Ranchos,
 
I would like to humbly ask for assistance in reading a marriage entry.  I have found a Family Search image and cannot make out some details such as: the place Emeterio Delgadillo lives, and the part after 'hija legitima de Marcelino Prieto y Refugio Cruz que viven, .......'
The link to the image is:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…, and appears in Nochistlan, Matrimonion 1883-1887, image 244 of 519.  There is a handwritten '374' at the top of the page stamped '188'.

Although the handwriting is beautiful, the image quality on my screen is difficult to read.
 
Any assistance in the translation is greatly appreciated.
 
Raymond Medrano
Hot Houston

Hola Alejandro, curioso lo que mencionas de los Gómez de Nochistlán. Yo también he estado investigando ésta familia y también quedé atorado en el matrimonio de Nicolás Gómez con Magdalena Sepúlveda.

El esposo de mi hermana es Gómez Gómez, y el Gómez de su madre proviene de Nicolás Gómez y Magdalena Sepúlveda por su hijo Ascencio, quien casó con María de la Asención Rodríguez Ramírez.

Si encuentro algo después te tendré en mente porque se que te interesa.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

2011/7/27, Juan Aguayo :
> To all,
>
> I just noticed that as of July 23 Teocaltiche church records are now
> available online!
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
>
> Ahora me di cuenta que las actas de Teocaltiche estan disponible desde el 23
> de este mes en la red!
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Saludos a todos,
>
> Juan Carlos Aguayo Munoz
>
>Gracias muchas gracias ocupaba revisar y me han sido de mucha ayuda... perdon el abuso pero no sabes si tambien estan los de nayarit ?????
>
> _SERGIO EDUARDO ALATORRE GOMEZ
SALUDOS Y NUEVAMENTE
GRACIAS___________________________________________________________________
>

Nancy,
 
I feel your pain. I'm still looking for my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos' birth record, still no luck, but the hunt is half the fun. In the process I have made many other discoveries about other family lines.
My other problem is that all of my family lines come from Nochistlan and it's so easy to get distracted. While searching for one family, I encounter many other family connections and lose the focus of the one I'm searching for at that one time.
To complicate things further, my husband's family is also from Nochistlan and I find our families co-mingling with each other all along the way.
So not only am I contending with my ancestors, I'm also having to answer to his ancestors, they are all calling to me and saying, come here, find me first.
Good luck Nancy and thanks Patty for your family tree that inspires all of us to keep going.
 
Saludos de San Jose,
Alicia

From: "nbperez@att.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 6:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Patty's family tree

Believe me, after more than 10 years of patiently searching for my grandmother's name
and background and finding literally nothing,my patience is running out but I haven't
yet given up. She doesn't seem to exist in any records I've searched and I don't know her maiden name, so how to find her? She was born about 1892, I believe in Mexico, but have no proof. I am now researching the surnames of Guerrero, Sanchez, Flores, in Guadalajara, based on a family group photo from about 1908. I have looked for a marriage record (not found) for Francisco Sanchez Guerrero
as I am hoping he is my grandmother's father, which would lead to breaking down
my huge brick wall. You can see a photo of my grandmother, Alma Blanche holding a
baby, the Guerrero family photo with her seated in the center row, and a photo of Jesus Sanchez Guerrero. But due to an older age, I think his brother, Francisco
might be my grandmother's father and the man in the photo. To see the photos please go to the "latest images" link on the right side of the page.
Patty, thanks so much for your info but the names don't seem to match my searches.

Had you try looking for your mother´s christening record??? with a little
bit of luck you can find there her grand parents and where is she from, or
her marriage record can also contain that data.

I know its a very simple tip but it may help.

Good luck!

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:18 PM, wrote:

> Believe me, after more than 10 years of patiently searching for my
> grandmother's name
> and background and finding literally nothing,my patience is running out but
> I haven't
> yet given up. She doesn't seem to exist in any records I've searched and I
> don't know her maiden name, so how to find her? She was born about 1892, I
> believe in Mexico, but have no proof. I am now researching the surnames of
> Guerrero, Sanchez, Flores, in Guadalajara, based on a family group photo
> from about 1908. I have looked for a marriage record (not found) for
> Francisco Sanchez Guerrero
> as I am hoping he is my grandmother's father, which would lead to breaking
> down
> my huge brick wall. You can see a photo of my grandmother, Alma Blanche
> holding a
> baby, the Guerrero family photo with her seated in the center row, and a
> photo of Jesus Sanchez Guerrero. But due to an older age, I think his
> brother, Francisco
> might be my grandmother's father and the man in the photo. To see the
> photos please go to the "latest images" link on the right side of the page.
> Patty, thanks so much for your info but the names don't seem to match my
> searches.

Perhaps this is obvious, but did your grandmother come to the US? If so, take a look at the US census records. These will give the country of birth, and a date of immigration. However, don't take the date as absolute, it could be a few years either way. The listed age may be correct, but again, do not assume it is unless you have some supporting evidence: I've seen dates as far as 10 years off for older people, such as in their 50s!

When you search the US census you may have to be creative when searching the last or first name. The census taken didn't always spell names correctly, and sometimes had real problems with non-American names. The ancestry.com indexes are OK, the LDS ones are better. The Heritage Quest indexes aren't nearly as useful.

Try searching for the first name and location only. Unfortunately, this tends to produce many results; a birth year range will narrow the list.

Something else to consider, is that who ever extracted the name for the census index may not have been able to read what was written, and therefore did not spell the name correctly.

From the dates you give, also look at the 1930 Mexican national census. I've used it a little, with mixed results. I've found a few people I didn't expect, and not found ones that should have been there.

Possibly, also obvious: look at all the baptismal records. In the early part of the 1900s, the Catholic Church started annotating baptismal records with marriage information. Also, matrimonial investigations will sometimes have references to the baptismal records. This seems to have been more common in the small towns, than in the few large ones I've looked at.

One of the suggestions made at the last meeting of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society for dealing with brick walls is to write down everything you know. This will do two things: (1) makes the gaps clear, and (2) possibly make suggestions for where to look or suggest conclusions that weren't apparent.

Sometimes following up on a hunch or guess may lead to success.

I know the frustration! Be persistent! And finally, sometimes it is just luck. It took me a long time to find Alejandra Saldana's family. The birth year I was given by her children was wrong (although the month and day was correct), the place of birth was wrong, and her father's age in the US census was 10 years off!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

No he visto la dispensa pero no creo que son los mismos simplemente por las
fechas. Puedes encontrar la familia de Esteban I Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza y
Maria Torres Valdivia en la página de Javier Sanchiz Ruiz.
http://gw5.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=sanchiz&lang=es;p=esteban;n=gomez+…

¿Nos puedes dar el enlace de la dispensa?

Armando

2011/8/15

> Hola a todos los compañerpos del foro,,, revizando unas dispensas
> matrimoniales del año 1797 me encotre una que decia que Agustin Gomez Casado
> con Maria leal y Paula Gomez casada con Martin Casillas eran hijos de esta
> Pareja de Fernando Gomez y Ana Villaseñor,, lo cual contradice el Libro de
> Don Mariano Gonzalez Leal, que menciona en su libro que estos dos Agustin y
> Paula Gomez son hijos de Esteban I Gomez Hurtado de mendoza y Maria Torres
> Valdivia,, alguien de ustedes sabe de quien eran hijos este Fernando Gomez y
> Ana Villaseñor,,, la dispensa de la que hablo esta en la pag. 379 de las
> dispensas de 1797 por si la quieren ver

Hola Valente

Hace unos días comenté sobre tu pregunta, pero me parece que hice algo mal y no apareció el comentario, o quizá fue el problema que hubo en la página. No sé.

Vuelvo a escribir lo que yo pienso de este tema.

Fui a ver la referencia que indicas y me doy cuenta que la costumbre de colocar estas iniciales comienza, si no me equivoco, en los libros de 1841. Definitivamente no creo que quiera decir indio o casta, el uso de colocar la "calidad" como se llamaba a la raza de los bautizados se suspendió junto con la consumación de la independencia, en 1821. Me parece que hubo una ley que prohibió asentar la raza de las personas en estos libros. El caso es que esa práctica se abandonó. Algunos párrocos en vez de el adjetivo "indio" o "español" colocaron el de "americano" o "ciudadano" En 1880 ya no era posible distinguir quien era mestizo o español. Creo que se debe dar por descartado que YY quiera decir indio.

Me parece que puede referirse a un lugar pensé que CC pudiera ser capellanías y YY iglesias, pero esto es solo especulación y qué sería de CY, la verdad es que esto es algo misterioso. Ojalá que alguien pueda aportarnos luz en este tema.

Saludos.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

This is really cool. Thanks Claudia!

------ Original Message ------
Received: 06:53 PM PDT, 08/14/2011
From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Padron de Nochistlan - 1846

Here are my quick notes of what an be found in the images for the 1846 Padron
de Nochistlan found here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

1846-1899 - nochistlan - padrones
Film: 226945

NOTE: I am making note of place names only so you will find your people if you
already know the name of the rancho, estancia or place where they resided.

IMAGES #003-100

003 slate 1846
004 principio
005/6 1846 padron

007/8 oriente

011 norte

015 poniente

016 sur

018 barrio de santiago

021 barrio de san sebastian

025 barrio de san francisco

029 puesto de la villita

030 cofradia del santisimo / huerta de pachecos

031 cofradia de la purisima / pueblo de toyahua

039 pueblo de apulco

045 pueblo de tenayuca

048/9 chimaliquin

050 rancho de tapias / rio de apulco

051 arroyo hondo

052/3 huegotita / el alamo

054 el salto / el tunal / paso de carretas / estancia de los delgadillo

057/8 santa rita / el trich

059 puesto del coyote / la jabonera

060 puesto del picacho / monte de los yanez

061 los chaves

062 rancho viejo / lo de carrera / las tinajas

063 san martin / mesa de la magdalena / hacienda de tlachichilia

064 rio de santa gertrudis / sombreretillo / huiscolco

065/6 puesto de las bolsas / san roque / el malpaso / el chiquiguitillo

067 el salitre / los cardos / rincon de diego / las pilas / la cienega

068 mololoas / monte de los duranes

069 las ahujas

070 cerro de san miguel

071 mesa de las galusas / santa rita / san jose / el carriscal

072-4 rincon de torres / hacienda de santa gertrudis

075 barranca de jocoqui / el aguacate / el capulin / serro grande

076 mesa de los ocotes / la cienega2 / el citio

077 mesa de los abelares

078/9 rincon de aguayos / hacienda del alamo / cofradia de animas

082 tapotica / paso de orosco

083 la capellania / jesus maria

084 el durasno de carrillos / barranca de morenos / rancho de las troxes /
rancho de los gonzalez

085 el salto

086/7 rancho de san jose / rancho viejo / el saucillo

088 rio ancho / el molino

089/90 las huertas

091 javalies

092 rancho el zapote / labor de los mercados

093/4 huisquilco

095 llano grande / veladores

096/7 SUMMARY population 9,765

098 SUMMARY
population 14,567

099 blank
100 fin

Claudia,

On behalf of the Nuestros Ranchos group I would like to extend my thanks
to you for your wonderful efforts in helping your fellow researchers. I
certainly hope that others will take note and follow your fine example.

thank you,

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

claudiacasillas@gmail.com wrote:
> Here are my quick notes of what an be found in the images for the 1846
> Padron de Nochistlan found here:
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
>
> 1846-1899 - nochistlan - padrones
> Film: 226945
>
> NOTE: I am making note of place names only so you will find your
> people if you already know the name of the rancho, estancia or place
> where they resided.
>
> IMAGES #003-100
>
> 003 slate 1846
> 004 principio
> 005/6 1846 padron
>
> 007/8 oriente
>
> 011 norte
>
> 015 poniente
>
> 016 sur
>
> 018 barrio de santiago
>
> 021 barrio de san sebastian
>
> 025 barrio de san francisco
>
> 029 puesto de la villita
>
> 030 cofradia del santisimo / huerta de pachecos
>
> 031 cofradia de la purisima / pueblo de toyahua
>
> 039 pueblo de apulco
>
> 045 pueblo de tenayuca
>
> 048/9 chimaliquin
>
> 050 rancho de tapias / rio de apulco
>
> 051 arroyo hondo
>
> 052/3 huegotita / el alamo
>
> 054 el salto / el tunal / paso de carretas / estancia de los delgadillo
>
> 057/8 santa rita / el trich
>
> 059 puesto del coyote / la jabonera
>
> 060 puesto del picacho / monte de los yanez
>
> 061 los chaves
>
> 062 rancho viejo / lo de carrera / las tinajas
>
> 063 san martin / mesa de la magdalena / hacienda de tlachichilia
>
> 064 rio de santa gertrudis / sombreretillo / huiscolco
>
> 065/6 puesto de las bolsas / san roque / el malpaso / el chiquiguitillo
>
> 067 el salitre / los cardos / rincon de diego / las pilas / la cienega
>
> 068 mololoas / monte de los duranes
>
> 069 las ahujas
>
> 070 cerro de san miguel
>
> 071 mesa de las galusas / santa rita / san jose / el carriscal
>
> 072-4 rincon de torres / hacienda de santa gertrudis
>
> 075 barranca de jocoqui / el aguacate / el capulin / serro grande
>
> 076 mesa de los ocotes / la cienega2 / el citio
>
> 077 mesa de los abelares
>
> 078/9 rincon de aguayos / hacienda del alamo / cofradia de animas
>
> 082 tapotica / paso de orosco
> 083 la capellania / jesus maria
>
> 084 el durasno de carrillos / barranca de morenos / rancho de las
> troxes / rancho de los gonzalez
>
> 085 el salto
>
> 086/7 rancho de san jose / rancho viejo / el saucillo
>
> 088 rio ancho / el molino
>
> 089/90 las huertas
>
> 091 javalies
>
> 092 rancho el zapote / labor de los mercados
>
> 093/4 huisquilco
>
> 095 llano grande / veladores
>
> 096/7 SUMMARY population 9,765
>
> 098 SUMMARY
> population 14,567
>
> 099 blank
> 100 fin

Well said, Daniel!
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Nuestros Ranchos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Patty's family tree
Sent: Aug 14, 2011 10:10 AM

It all takes patience, sometimes I believe I lack it, but we all started at the
beginning. Many people consider some of us "smart" "knowledegble" but in
reality we have just studied over the years. We all start from a tiny seed
and with a bit of patience and persistance, it begins to grow into a tree
that unites all your ancestors.

Daniel Méndez Camino

It all takes patience, sometimes I believe I lack it, but we all started at the
beginning. Many people consider some of us "smart" "knowledegble" but in
reality we have just studied over the years. We all start from a tiny seed
and with a bit of patience and persistance, it begins to grow into a tree
that unites all your ancestors.

Daniel Méndez Camino

I don't have a recommendation on a book but some very good websites with
very smart and knowledgeable people are the following -

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/
http://dna-forums.org/
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?201-Genetics-amp-Anthropo…

Every year there are changes and additions to the the haplogroups. The
current haplogroups and subclades can be seen at
http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html

The books you mentioned will have outdated info, and maybe even biased, so
keep that in mind when reading them. There are currently many studies that
will bring to light a lot more info, changes, and additions. The forums from
the above websites include many good arguments that should be read to
understand how many details aren't fully agreed upon yet.

Wikipedia has been updated with these changes and include links to the
source info and studies so it will have a lot of good material but the
previous mentioned websites should be kept in mind, especially when there
are critiques of the studies like the ones presented by Dienekes.

Armando

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:39 PM, wrote:

> I've recently read a couple of books on genetic testing, and related
> topics. While they do not answer all my questions, they seem to be pretty
> reasonable:
>
> (1) Trace Your Roots with DNA by Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak (this is her
> name and not a typo) and Ann Turner.
>
> Copyright 2004, so perhaps a little dated, but still a reasonable
> discussion of what DNA testing can do.
>
> Still in print @ $16.95
>
> (2) The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey by Spencer Wells
>
> Copyright 2002, also perhaps a little dated.
>
> Spencer Wells is the person involved with the Genographics Project
> (National Geographic). This book is about population migration, more of a
> "deep ancestry" approach. It would be useful to read this and watch the
> National Geographic video (watch the video first).
>
> Still in print at $14.95.
>
> I ordered both of them from an online bookstore, none of the brick & mortar
> stores had them.
>
> I'm still looking for something that does an in-depth description of haplo
> types.

Try this not sure if it will work...

http://hdzvialpando.tribalpages.com/tpphotos/fullphotos/hdzvialpando_40…

Amalia Hernandez Arias

I didnt know where to upload it at? I see this website is pretty particular so I dont want to put the image in the wrong folder. Do you know where?

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Amalia,

Thank you for sending those links. I didn't realize you had sent them before I sent my last post.

I think that Villa de Leon was transcribed as Villa de Con and the "il" is an abbreviation for "ijo legitimo" (legitimate son of) since the name of his parents follow. What do you think, Daniel? Does that answer the mystery?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:28:31 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Link to de Villalpando records
>
> Ok I just uploaded them to my photobucket page..
>
> first one is the interpretation from the book Origins of New Mexico Families
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/mestazvialpando_119227…
>
> 2nd one is the interpretation from the Diligencias Matrimonias
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/DMpageVillalpando.jpg
>
> And lastly is the Juan de Villalpando marriage which the first page is missing...
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/Juanmarriagep2.jpg
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/Juanmarriagep3.jpg
>
> Thank you all for helping out..hopefully the mystery can be solved!!
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
>
>
>

Armando and Jose Luis,
Your input is greatly appreciated, and providing the links helps lots!
Thank you,
Raymond Medrano

Greetings to all,
I have not been able to locate Yahualica De Gonzalez San Miguel, Gallo, Jalisco.  This is all supposed to be one location but seems to have more names than usual.  Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
Raymond Medrano

Nancy

The only ones I've seen are in possession of family members. My mother-in-law had one for her father who immigrated to the US in the early 1900s. I've seen one other that someone brought into the Family History Center where I volunteer.

These appear to have been generated in one of the Mexican consulates near the border, or possibly from an office in Mexico. The one from my wife's family is typed on a form, with signatures, and from its state of wear and all the folds, was probably carried by her grandfather for a long time.

Since my wife's grandfather's document is a printed form, I suspect they were commonly used. The question is, how many were preserved when the owner passed away. Unfortunately, people often had the opinion that this "old stuff" was of little or no value.

The one brought in by the FHC patron was very useful in that it listed the town the person was born in. From that we could find his baptismal records, and were able to back a couple of generations.

I have never seen an archive of these. These are not in the border crossing records (such as those at Ancestry.com), which are essentially index cards.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Marylouise,

I happen to come across your ggg-parents marriage record in Ciénega De Mata
(Guadalupe Macias & Tomasa Esparza) the writing is a little rough but I can
make out their parents
Guadalupe Macias parents: Manuel Macias & Maria Montoia
Tomasa Esparza parents: Cayetano Esparza & Maria Antonia Macias

If you want to see the original it can be viewed on familysearch.org
Cienega de Mata, matrimonios 1840-1858, image 123

here is the link
https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

-Angelina

It appears that permissions on the website were corrupted such that certain posts were not visible.

I believe the error has been resolved, but please let me know if there are any additional problems you run into.

Given how long the site has been running on the same code base, we may have to perform another overhaul.

More to come.

-Arturo

The posts for the past 5 years, other than yours and one from Emilie, are
missing. It is as if someone restored a database that is 5 years old onto
the server.

Armando

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:42 AM, wrote:

> Is there a problem with the website?
>
> When I click on the "Recent Posts" link, I get a list of posting from 5
> years ago.