for everyone's information:
1) You can't add attachments to emails as they will be stripped as in
the recent message by Ernie on the photo he included. If you want to
show the group a photo then upload it to the Album area and copy the
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Somos Primos June 2006 lq-1 Table of Contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
To: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
For those of you that can read Spanish here is that file Susana Liniski
sent in which is 800+ pages of information on Zacatecas on two Word
files (part 1 and part 2) that can be found in the "Files" and in the
Estimado Joseph:
Yo soy uno de aquellos que puede leer español y agradezco a Susana Liniski el permitirme consultar tan interesantes documentos, Zacatecas 1 y 2 de sus archivos. Realmente son demasiado extensos y como tu dices, se necesita tiempo para analizarlos en su totalidad. Nos daremos los espacios necesarios para hacerlo. Gracias.
Joseph Puentes escribió:
For those of you that can read Spanish here is that file Susana Liniski
sent in which is 800+ pages of information on Zacatecas on two Word
files (part 1 and part 2) that can be found in the "Files" and in the
"Reference Material" and under "Notarias y Otros de Zacatecas" or you
can go directly there via this URL:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14507
I'm sorry but I just haven't had time to look through it very much, but
will look closer when time permits. If some of you or if Susana wants to
give a report or overview of the material covered that would be wonderful.
thanks Prima,
joseph
I remember reading somewhere that priests were required (prior to Mexican independence) to submit a certification of purity of blood (limpieza de sangre). These certifications were basically genealogies going back a few generations.
Have you gotten any info on your question?
I have a book; have not seen it in a long time....but I could find it if needed. It had the priest and his ancestors listed. I may have gotten that in Spain.
When you ask where could they be found....probably in the Franciscan Archives....wouldn't you think? Most probably there because I do not think they would be at the Archivo de la Nacion.
Now, I need to find that book. It will give the info that you need.
Mickey
arturoramos wrote:
>I remember reading somewhere that priests were required (prior to Mexican independence) to submit a certification of purity of blood (limpieza de sangre). These certifications were basically genealogies going back a few generations.
>
>Does anyone know where the archives of these documents can be found?
>
>Has someone in the group seen one and have a sample of what they look like?
>
do you think they might be in some of these records? I've not looked
into these records yet and would like to one day order a film to see
what kind of info there is for them. I've got a Cipriano Puente who was
a priest in Huejucar during the 1860's-1870's and I'd be interested to
see if he is related. But this is after Independence so would'nt fit in
with purity of blood idea:
Title
Documentos eclesiásticos, 1604-1898
Authors
Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
Notes
Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en Guadalajara.
Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
Subjects
México, Jalisco - Church records
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
Format
Manuscript (On Film)
Language
Spanish
Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
1957-1958
Physical
131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
Ordenes 1600-1699 - FHL INTL Film [ 168674 ]
Ordenes 1600-1628, 1714 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168675 ]
Ordenes 1620-1659 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168676 ]
Ordenes 1604-1691 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168677 ]
Ordenes 1614-1668 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168678 ]
Ordenes 1668-1684 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168679 ]
Ordenes 1684-1699, 1703, 1708 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168680 ]
Ordenes 1662-1692 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168681 ]
Ordenes 1689-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168682 ]
Ordenes 1679-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168683 ]
Ordenes 1698-1803 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168684 ]
Ordenes 1700-1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168685 ]
Ordenes 1758-1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168686 ]
Ordenes 1767-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168687 ]
Ordenes 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168688 ]
Ordenes 1771-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168689 ]
Ordenes 1772-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168690 ]
Ordenes 1700-1717 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168691 ]
Ordenes 1715-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168692 ]
Ordenes 1754-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168693 ]
Ordenes 1702-1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168694 ]
Ordenes 1734-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168695 ]
Ordenes 1700-1707 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168696 ]
Ordenes 1707-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168697 ]
Ordenes 1736-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168698 ]
Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168699 ]
Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168700 ]
Ordenes 1779-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168701 ]
Ordenes 1787-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168702 ]
Ordenes 1798-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168703 ]
Ordenes 1701-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168704 ]
Ordenes 1701-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168705 ]
Ordenes 1746-1747 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168706 ]
Ordenes 1747-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168707 ]
Ordenes 1702-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168708 ]
Ordenes 1747-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168709 ]
Ordenes 1777-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168710 ]
Ordenes 1780-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168711 ]
Ordenes 1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168712 ]
Ordenes 1790-1796 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168713 ]
Ordenes 1796-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168714 ]
Ordenes 1707-1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168715 ]
Ordenes 1716-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168716 ]
Ordenes 1703-1792 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168717 ]
Ordenes 1703-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168718 ]
Ordenes 1703-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168719 ]
Ordenes 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168720 ]
Ordenes 1751-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168721 ]
Ordenes 1761-1784 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168722 ]
Ordenes 1724-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168723 ]
Ordenes 1730-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168724 ]
Ordenes 1722-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168725 ]
Ordenes 1732-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168726 ]
Ordenes 1760-1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168727 ]
Ordenes 1765-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168728 ]
Ordenes 1774-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168729 ]
Ordenes 1770-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168731 ]
Ordenes 1786, 1791, 1796-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168732 ]
Ordenes 1714-1753 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168733 ]
Ordenes 1742-1785 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168734 ]
Ordenes 1756-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168735 ]
Ordenes 1787-1800 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168736 ]
Ordenes 1714-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168737 ]
Ordenes 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168738 ]
Ordenes 1734-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168739 ]
Ordenes 1741-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168740 ]
Ordenes 1748-1797 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168741 ]
Ordenes 1756-1762 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168742 ]
Ordenes 1753-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168743 ]
Ordenes 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168744 ]
Ordenes 1762-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168745 ]
Ordenes 1771-1803 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168746 ]
Ordenes 1651-1829 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168747 ]
Ordenes 1757-1789 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168748 ]
Ordenes 1784-1805 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168749 ]
Ordenes 1757-1799 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168750 ]
Ordenes 1797-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168751 ]
Ordenes 1807-1819 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168752 ]
Ordenes 1819-1824 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168753 ]
Ordenes 1824-1831 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168754 ]
Ordenes 1830-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168755 ]
Ordenes 1853-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168756 ]
Ordenes 1855, 1861-1862 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168757 ]
Ordenes 1800-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168758 ]
Ordenes 1814-1837 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168759 ]
Ordenes 1836-1839 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168760 ]
Ordenes 1839-1841 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168761 ]
Ordenes 1840-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168762 ]
Ordenes 1844-1850 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168763 ]
Ordenes 1850-1865 - FHL INTL Film [ 168764 ]
Ordenes 1864-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168765 ]
Ordenes 1800-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168766 ]
Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168767 ]
Ordenes 1800-1805 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168768 ]
Ordenes 1805-1815 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168769 ]
Ordenes 1805-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168770 ]
Ordenes 1805-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168771 ]
Ordenes 1817-1845 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168772 ]
Ordenes 1845-1857 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168773 ]
Ordenes 1857-1887 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168774 ]
Ordenes 1802-1847 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168775 ]
Ordenes 1802-1890 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168776 ]
Ordenes 1889-1890 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168777 ]
Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168778 ]
Ordenes 1802-1826 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168779 ]
Ordenes 1821-1899 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168780 ]
Ordenes 1881-1883 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168781 ]
Ordenes 1883-1884 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168782 ]
Ordenes 1883-1889 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168783 ]
Ordenes 1880-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168784 ]
Ordenes 1891-1895 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168785 ]
Ordenes 1892-1896 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168786 ]
Ordenes 1892-1897 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168787 ]
Ordenes 1894-1898 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168788 ]
Ordenes 1894-1897 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168789 ]
Ordenes 1803-1854 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168790 ]
© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Much apologies for the delay in forwarding this to the group. Here is
some information sent to me by Susana Leniski. The attachments she is
referring to have been uploaded to the website (Files) -->(Reference
I saw this message on RootsWeb and was wondering if any on the group
have heard about the Zacatecas City records being kept in the "Museo
Archives to protect them from decay" ?
joseph
-------- Original Message --------
Listen to some new podcasts that the Nuestra Familia Unida podcast
project has received permission to link to:
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/podcast/history.html#cris (Cristero War)
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/podcast/misc.html (Maps & Hispanic
Estimado Joseph.
Te saludo y sugiero consultes la siguiente dirección: www.voltairenet.org/article121131.html (además de otros enlaces que aparecen al final de este artículo). Es otro punto de vista algo diferente de los ya conocidos que puede servir para normar criterios.
Joseph Puentes escribió:
Listen to some new podcasts that the Nuestra Familia Unida podcast
project has received permission to link to:
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/podcast/history.html#cris (Cristero War)
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/podcast/misc.html (Maps & Hispanic
Society of America)
Also very soon we'll have more contributions from Frank Moreno Sifuentes:
Stella By Starlight
Pedro Chaisse
I'm also very thankful that Frank has recruited one of his friends from
Austin, Tx., Ramon Moncivais to work on contributing oral history
podcasts for the project. I'm also looking forward to having some new
Poetry for the podcast.
thanks,
joseph
-Thank you for telling us about these podcasts. I'm an avid Mac fan. I listened to several pod casts, including the myths of maps, Cortez after the conquest and myths of the conquest.
I must admit I was very let down:( The speaker never really got to the seven myths of the conquest, just about the context in very general, and broad terms.
I guess I'm too addicted to the printed word. I relish reading. I enjoy books, with their texture and feel, even their smell. But most importantly I can flip past stuff I already know, not so with a podcast.
I'm sure the medium will be of more interest and use to others, just not this Chicano.
I have listened to podcasts I enjoyed. There's an online Blues Library, or foundation that describes then plays incredible songs from the dawn of the recorded music era. Absolutely breathtaking.
But spoken word alone doesn't quite hold my attention.
On another matter.....We had a tremendous turnout at the Mexican-American Veterans Memorial on Monday. Beautiful wreaths, big floral arrangements.
I believe the Governator, Arnold himself, left one. Also Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. But I arrived later and only saw the flowers when my sister and I lit our hundred candles of a dozen colors at the foot of the monument.
It warmed my heart to have people respect our fathers, and our proud past.
A broken down hobo stumbled by and saluted a framed picture of my father I stood by the monument. I was so surprised. I was certain he was going to ask me for spare change for a cold cerveza, and you know what?
I would have given it to him. But he never asked.
I layed out my late dad's stereo equipment there as well for anyone who needed it to take home with them. My father always loved the poorest and most humble of our people.
Ernie,
I too have a great love of books. I have rooms full of books that I can't part with. My bedside table has at least 8 books at any given time that I've started. Currently I am reading mostly Latin American History but am also reading books on religions which are in large part historical as well as books on Geneaology. The books I am presently reading are full of post-it notes at various locations depicting specific dates and events that refer me to things or facts to look up in another book or on-line.
There is no end to my madness.
I guess I'm too addicted to the printed word. I relish reading. I enjoy books, with their texture and feel, even their smell. But most importantly I can flip past stuff I already know, not so with a podcast.
On another matter.....We had a tremendous turnout at the Mexican-American Veterans Memorial on Monday. Beautiful wreaths, big floral arrangements.
Ernie, did you take any pictures of the cemetery?
Gracias,
Alicia
Here's a picture of the candles flickering in the dark, and one of my sister lighting the candles at the base of the monument amidst the floral wreaths.
I've sent this message out to the Ranchos Yahoo Group:
------
-------
--------
---------
Sorry about this scare. You all thought that the Yahoo Ranchos was Dead
and here it is raising it's head again. Kind of reminds me of a joke
Joseph and Arturo,
While entering films for Teocaltiche, I made an incomplete entry and in trying to go back to correct it I created a new entry for the same film rather than correcting the original entry. The entry is for Baptisms, Batch # C024197, years 1640-1786. This batch does not have a film # associated with it, don't know if this is because it was a compilation of films or loose pages or other. In any case I wanted to notify you so you would know who created the error. Maybe you can remove the first one I created that was incomplete.
Amen. . .I totally agree. We in the USA owe a lot to our fallen heroes.
we should take every opportunity to thank vets not just on Memorial day
but every opportunity we have. Read past the quote for another idea:
I for one like to remember the Fallen Heroes in my Family, injured and
seriously affected as well, but we should think of those and honor those
that were just there. Here is my list and I hope you will take the
opportunity to list your family (feel free to list even if they are from
other areas or ethnicity's):
Served In Action:
Rigoberto Avelar Olmos - US ARMY - Vietnam
Jose Daniel Avelar Olmos - US ARMY - Vietnam
Juan Carlos Carrillo Avelar- US ARMY - Panama Invasion and Desert Storm
Jason Avelar Field - USMC - Iraq Conflict, 2005
James Avelar Field - USMC - Presently In Iraq
We will not forget you !
Died in Action:
Miguel Diaz - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Miguel Puentes - San Jose, CA - Vietnam
Wounded in Action:
Eduardo Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Frank Ascarate - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Served in Action:
Manuel Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Frank Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Jose Refugio Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW2
Carlos Puentes Espinoza - Santa Paula, CA - Vietnam
Registered and Ready to Serve:
Joseangel Diaz - Santa Paula, CA - WW1
Julio Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW1
Antonio Puentes - Santa Paula, CA - WW2 (deferment)
We pay our respects to all the fallen heroes. Perhaps the most profound tribute of all was made on the first national memorial observance in May, 1868, by then - General James A. Garfield when he said: "They summed up and perfected, by one supreme act, the highest virtues of men and citizens. For love of country they accepted death, and thus resolved all doubts, and made immortal their patriotism and virtue."
Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful story.
It brought a cascade of tears to my old and battered Chicano face.
I must admit that I was ignorant of all those facts.
I wish that the post office would issue a series of stamps honoring all 40 Latino recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor.
My late father served in Normandy in WWII. He always spoke fondly of Rouen, and the French people.
But, he told me Nazi prisoners of war were treated better back here at home than Mexican-American soldiers, and vets. He told me he was refused service at various restaurants shortly after the war while he was in uniform wearing his medals:(
We have a Latin American War Vets memorial here in Los Angeles at the corner of Cesar Chavez and Indiana, right at the L.A. city line. My dad was there when they dedicated it in 1947. Every year on Veteran's Day, and Memorial Day, the current governor lays a wreath, and stops for a photo op.
I started a tradition of leaving light candles there at night. Many people followed my lead, and now the monument has a stream of melted wax at its base, and on special evenings like the one coming up, it glows with a hundred flickering lights.
Its adjacent to Evergreen Cemetery, oldest burial ground in Los Angeles. My father played there as a kid, as if it were a park.
We now have three members who have contributed to the GEDCOM database. We have a few other people who asked for accounts to be set up but have not yet uploaded data.
If there is anybody who would like to put their genealogy data (even if it is just a fraction of what you have) in this searchable database, please let me know and I will be happy to help you get it online. I think that building the database, particularly ancestors from the earlier centuries (those that we might share with other members) would be incredibly helpful for the group.
Arturo - I have a list of at least 70 batch numbers. Tell me how to submit them.
Henrietta (and others):
If you have confirmed batch numbers, I would suggest you first go to the films section and see if the batch numbers are already in the database. If they are not, you can enter them yourself by:
(1) If there are NO films for a given muniicpality... use the pull down menu at the bottom of the state listing to add films for a new municipality. You will need to enter the Description (e.g. Baptisms or Marriages), Beginning Year, Ending Year, Film Number, Batch Number and (if you have the film on indefinite loan) your name.
(2) If the municipality is already listed but your particular film or batch number is not, click on the "Add Film" button on the bottom of the municipality film listing page.
(3) If you have a large number of films, email them to me at arturo.ramos2 (at) verizon.net (preferably in an Excel spreadsheet) and I can upload them to the database all at once rather than inputing each one individually. If possible, I would prefer that you sort out those films that are already in the database and send me a list of only fims that are not yet in the database.
Arturo,
I just added 30 new films to the Zacatecas, Nochistlan de Mejia films database. They are all for baptisms, years 1627 thru 1875. As I have time I will upload the rest of the films for Nochistlan, that would be the marriage, census and death films.
Alicia
I have a list of the Batch numbers I usually use but I couldn't understand where is the list where I may check the ones that have been uploaded in order to help upload some more. I also want to know if the Batches have to be from a certain place or can be from any city. Mine are mostly from Sinaloa, Sonora and Durango and a few from Jalisco.
Thank you Alicia,
Sure sounds like an interesting story. I will answer him. Maybe he
has some leads to my Romero/de la Torre family.
Linda
>
> HI LINDA,
> YO SOY DE TEPATITLAN, Y MI MAMA ES ROMERO, MI ABUELA SE
have a listen to the Nuestra Familia Unida for a couple of very good
History podcasts from the "Here On Earth" podcast.
the first is about the 700+ years of Muslim Occupation of Spain:
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/podcast/history.html
Will someone please translate this for me. The translation online
was confusing. Thank you.
HI LINDA,
YO SOY DE TEPATITLAN, Y MI MAMA ES ROMERO, MI ABUELA SE
LLAMABA FELICIANA ROMERO, CASADA CON JESUS ENRIQUEZ, ELLA MURIO MUY
Linda,
I will give the translation a try.
It says something like this.
Hi Linda, I am from Tepatitlan, my mother is a Romero and my grandmother was named Feliciana Romero, married to Jesus Enriquez, she died very young. My grandfather's father was hanged in order to rob him. Does this sound familiar, I don't know the exact year of his death but it must have been around 1925. Does this name sound familiar, Irineo De La Torre. perhaps if you are interested we can talk later.
Thank You
HI LINDA,
YO SOY DE TEPATITLAN, Y MI MAMA ES ROMERO, MI ABUELA SE
LLAMABA FELICIANA ROMERO, CASADA CON JESUS ENRIQUEZ, ELLA MURIO MUY
JOVEN, a el papa de mi abuelo lo ahorcaron por robarle a ver si les
suena familiar, no se el ano exacto de su muerte pero debe haber sido
por el 1925 no se voy a indagar no se si te suene familiar el nombre
de Irineo De LA Torre. en fin despues si gustas platicaremos.
gracias.
Greetings from Switzerland! I took some R&R time in Italy and found someone
born in Mexico and buried in Italy! I went to Venice a couple of weeks ago
and took a water taxi across the lagoon from Venice to the Island of St.
Though this is not an authoritative source, the post appears verbatum in a number of different sites which makes me think it is plagiarized from some historical source:
foros.kaliman.com.mx/discus/ messages/590/15634.html?1124947162
Fue en 1810 cuando los anhelos independentistas de los pobladores de la Nueva España, encabezados por el cura Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, fueron descubiertos y dio inicio la guerra de Independencia. Y no fue sino hasta 1821 cuando el general Agustín de Iturbide se declaró en favor de una Monarquia Independiente.
Fue él el autor del Plan de Iguala que firmaron España y la Nueva España reconociendo aquélla la independencia de ésta.
En reconocimiento a su papel en la independencia de España el Congreso Nacional otorgó a Agustín de Iturbide un bono de la elevadísima cantidad de $ 1 000 000.00.
El 21 de julio de 1822 Agustín de Iturbide fue coronado Emperador de la Nueva España. Sin embargo el 23 de marzo de 1823 hubo de abdicar presionado por Santa Ana y Guadalupe Victoria. Y se autodesterró.
Sin embargo, en julio de 1824 regresó con su familia al puerto de Soto la Marina, lugar donde fue aprehendido por haber sido declarado traidor a la patria. El día 19 de ese mismo mes fue fusilado.
Sin embargo, el bono de $ 1 000 000.00 no había sido pagado y el gobierno reconocía su deuda ya que había sido otorgado con apego a ley. No obstante, las arcas nacionales estaban casi vacías por lo que resultaba imposible pagarlo.
Deseosos de finiquitar el asunto el gobierno mexicano ofreció en pago a la familia de Iturbide un terreno grandísimo, de cientos de leguas cuadradas en el estado de Texas. Tierras que los herederos de Iturbide simplemente deberían localizar y señalar para sí.
Durante más de veinte años los herederos de Iturbide omitieron reclamar sus tierras en Texas y ésta declaró su independencia de México. Cuando esto sucedió el gobierno de México ofreció a los Iturbide reclamar la tierra, pero esta vez en lo que ahora es California o Nuevo México. Pero los Iturbide no sentían deseos de viajar tan lejos para reclamar esa extensión territorial. Devino lo inevitable, la guerra entre México y Estados Unidos, en la que aquél perdió gran parte de su territorio.
Cuando la Comisión de Tierras de EE UU (US Land Comission) comenzó a funcionar en California, don Salvador Iturbide, segundo hijo del emperador fusilado, se presentó ante ésta para reclamar las tierras prometidas. Obvio es que no obtuvo las tierras deseadas, y regresó a México con las manos vacías.
El 12 de marzo de 1853 Lombardini concedió a los herederos de Iturbide treinta leguas cuadradas de tierras, mismas que deberían ser localizadas por ellos o sus representantes en algún lugar de Sinaloa, Sonora o Baja California.
See this link to a site documenting the descendancy of Emperor Agustin I of Mexico:
http://4dw.net/royalark/Mexico/mexico3.htm
H.H. Prince Don Salvador de Iturbide y de Marzàn. b. at Mexico City, 18th September 1849, educ. Ste Barbe Coll., Paris. Adopted by Emperor Maximilien I, and was granted the title of Prince de Iturbide with the style of His Highness, 1st September 1865. Received a pension from Emperor Franz Joseph in recognition of his position as the adopted son of Emperor Maximilian. Rcvd: Knt. of the Order of Notre Dame de la Guadalupe 1st class. m. at Mikos Castle, Mikosd, Hungary, 21st June 1871, Gizella María Terezia (b. at Széplak, Hungary, 1st February 1846; m. second, at Paddington, London, 4th August 1900, Emil Jenison, Count von Walworth, who d. at Nice, France, 10th January 1910; and d. at a nursing home in Graz, Austria, 1st April 1921), daughter of Baron Eduard Johann Nepomuk Mikos de Tarrõdhàza, by his wife, Therese María Antonia Gludovàcz, Edler Frau de Petõhàz. He d. Ajaccio, Corsica, 26th February 1895 (bur. Cemetery of S Michele, Venice).
Thanks, Rosalinda! The article is VERY interesting!
Josie
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of rosa9972
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:41 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Don Salvador Iturbide
Here's a link for Salvador:
http://www.casaimperial.org/donsalvador.htm
Rosalinda
Josei and Ranchos members,
Interesting that you should send this because being a new learner of the history of Mexico, that surname rang a bell. Here is a link to an article on a famous or infamous Yturbide or Iturbide, could be spelled either way.
Thanks Josie,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca
"Josie T. Trevino" wrote:
Greetings from Switzerland! I took some R&R time in Italy and found someone
born in Mexico and buried in Italy! I went to Venice a couple of weeks ago
and took a water taxi across the lagoon from Venice to the Island of St.
Michele. It is a walled cemetery island in a quiet garden setting and a
wide variety of memorials. I did not look at all the burial sites since it
is extremely large but, as fate would have it, I found a beautiful burial
site of a gentleman named Salvador Yturbide. The tombstone reads:
"Salvador Yturbide, nacido en Mejico el 18 Setiembre 1849, muerto en
Ajaccio 26 Febreri 1895."
I took a picture of this and will share with anyone who may connect to this
gentleman.
Josie Trevino-Trevino
Sorry,
As Joseph pointed out, I forgot to include the link
Here are the links, one in english y una en español.
http://www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/espanol/historia/personajes/detalle…
http://www.bartleby.com/65/it/Iturbide.html
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 12:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexico research in Italy
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Josie and Ranchos members,
Interesting that you should send this because being a new learner of the history of Mexico, that surname rang a bell. Here is a link to an article on a famous or infamous Yturbide or Iturbide, could be spelled either way.
Thanks Josie,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca
"Josie T. Trevino" wrote:
Greetings from Switzerland! I took some R&R time in Italy and found someone
born in Mexico and buried in Italy! I went to Venice a couple of weeks ago
and took a water taxi across the lagoon from Venice to the Island of St.
Michele. It is a walled cemetery island in a quiet garden setting and a
wide variety of memorials. I did not look at all the burial sites since it
is extremely large but, as fate would have it, I found a beautiful burial
site of a gentleman named Salvador Yturbide. The tombstone reads:
"Salvador Yturbide, nacido en Mejico el 18 Setiembre 1849, muerto en
Ajaccio 26 Febreri 1895."
I took a picture of this and will share with anyone who may connect to this
gentleman.
Josie Trevino-Trevino
Thanks, Alicia! I enjoyed this article as well as the one Rosalinda
referred.......Both very interesting!
Josie
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Alicia
Carrillo
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:14 PM
To: Ranchos
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fwd: Re: Mexico research in Italy
Sorry,
As Joseph pointed out, I forgot to include the link
Here are the links, one in english y una en español.
http://www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/espanol/historia/personajes/detalle…?
idcat=1&idsec=5&idsub=0&idpag=1286
Have a listen to the latest submissions by Frank Moreno Sifuentes at:
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com/podcast/oral_history.html and if you
haven't already continue listening to the next group of stories from the
To any and all within striking distance of the East Coast. Come and be
part of the Parade in DC on July 4th.
joseph
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. Parade
Many thanks to all who have contributed to my project on Chihuahua.
I intend to follow up my study on Chihuahua with one on Aguascalientes along the same broad outlines.
So if you have any books you can part with on Aguascalientes, or old family photos to share, please let me know.
I'm writing an English language guide to the genealogy and history of Chihuahua that I think will be of use to everyone tracing their roots to Chihuahua.
I need additional source material. In particular books on Chihuahua's history and genealogy as well as family narratives. There must be several hundred books on the subject, virtualy 99% in Spanish, most out of print, most had small print runs in the first place, many were printed by small concerns in out of the way towns and pueblos.
Estimado Nathan:
Mi inglés no es muy fluído y por tal motivo te contesto en español. Estoy enterado de tus actividades acerca de la historia y la gente del estado de Chihuahua. Lamento informarte, que en este momento, no tengo nada relativo a ese estado. Mis raíces familiares vienen del estado de Zacatecas y conozco algo de esto. Sin embargo, en virtud de tu interés, trataré de informarme de algún tema relacionado con tus objetivos. Atte. Salvador.
NathanJones escribió:
I'm writing an English language guide to the genealogy and history of Chihuahua that I think will be of use to everyone tracing their roots to Chihuahua.
I need additional source material. In particular books on Chihuahua's history and genealogy as well as family narratives. There must be several hundred books on the subject, virtualy 99% in Spanish, most out of print, most had small print runs in the first place, many were printed by small concerns in out of the way towns and pueblos.
I can translate and synthesize all the information into one English language source.
If you have a book that might be of help, please let me know. If you donate a book, or pamphlet you will receive a copy of the completed study.
If you rather sell your material, I'm willing to buy.
Used, worn out copies are just fine. I'm not looking for a handsome library, just a lot of information.
You are welcome to donate scans of your family photos of Chihuahua. Pictures of people and places, the landscape, the way life used to be.
I have hundreds of pictrures already, but you never know what might show up.
I don't intend this to be the typical Pancho Villa dominated story. It will tell the story of all of our people, all our families, not just mine.
I think I can paint an exciting and accurate narrative as well as supply the facts and create a guide.
>
> Arturo & Joseph,
I believe that priests (maybe only some?) are still required to submit
genealogical type of information. The reason I say this is that I visited
an Uncle of mine who lives in the Rancho de San Nicolás de los Abundis a few
I asked my sister-in-law this weekend about this issue and she stated that the reason they ask for the priests' geneaologies is that if any of their parents, grandparents or great grandparents were co-habiting with someone outside of their marriage in which they must have been married in the Catholic or if any of them had children outside of their marriage they could not be ordained as priests.
Alicia Carrillo
Maria Cortez wrote:
>
> Arturo & Joseph,
I believe that priests (maybe only some?) are still required to submit
genealogical type of information. The reason I say this is that I visited
an Uncle of mine who lives in the Rancho de San Nicolás de los Abundis a few
years ago. He is interested in genealogy and has done some research, so I
brought him a pedigree chart that I printed for him. His comment to me was
that it would've been nice for his son (who is an ordained priest) to have
had that chart when he needed it to present to the Archdiocese. I assume
from this comment that priests still submit their genealogies before being
ordained.
Maria
Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Priests' Genealogies (Joseph Puentes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 19:41:00 -0500
> From: Joseph Puentes
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Priests' Genealogies
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <44652B1C.8090600@nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> arturoramos wrote:
>
> >I remember reading somewhere that priests were required (prior to Mexican
> independence) to submit a certification of purity of blood (limpieza de
> sangre). These certifications were basically genealogies going back a few
> generations.
> >
> >Does anyone know where the archives of these documents can be found?
> >
> >Has someone in the group seen one and have a sample of what they look
> like?
> >
> do you think they might be in some of these records? I've not looked
> into these records yet and would like to one day order a film to see
> what kind of info there is for them. I've got a Cipriano Puente who was
> a priest in Huejucar during the 1860's-1870's and I'd be interested to
> see if he is related. But this is after Independence so would'nt fit in
> with purity of blood idea:
>
> Title
> Documentos eclesi?sticos, 1604-1898
>
> Authors
> Iglesia Cat?lica. Di?cesis de Guadalajara (M?xico) (Main Author)
>
> Notes
> Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en
> Guadalajara.
> Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
> Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
> Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> Subjects
> M?xico, Jalisco - Church records
> M?xico, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
>
> Format
> Manuscript (On Film)
>
> Language
> Spanish
>
> Publication
> Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Geneal?gica de Utah,
> 1957-1958
>
> Physical
> 131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
>
> Film Notes
> Note - Location [Film]
> Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
>
Hello All! long time no posting! Anyway, when someone posts a new "genealogical" file, or edit's one...how does everyone/anyone find out? The reason I ask is that I added to new files to my tree and wondered how anyone would know to go there and look at it?
this is the way Peggy. Just send a message to the group "advertising"
your new addition or modification.
thanks,
joseph
scooterpie1968 wrote:
>Hello All! long time no posting! Anyway, when someone posts a new "genealogical" file, or edit's one...how does everyone/anyone find out? The reason I ask is that I added to new files to my tree and wondered how anyone would know to go there and look at it?
>
>If there is something else that I'm not doing, then I guess this is my notification.....here it goes...
>
>I'm very excited to tell you all that I've been moving forward in my research and have found two more "limbs" in my family tree that landed in Zacatecas! Please view my "Baez Family" file and my "Oviedo Family". This is my maternal line - one that I didn't think would interest this group because my researched centered in Coahuila...it turns out this road led me to Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas, Fresnillo Zacatecas and Zacatecas Zacatecas.
>
>
>Hope all the Mother's out there had a great day - I know I did....
>
>Peggy
Peggy:
I think it is a very common occurence that families in Northern Mexico, New Mexico, Texas and California were originally from the Zacatecas area. Since Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi were the first "frontiers" in Mexico, many of the families that then moved to the second frontiers came from the area. I know that Mazapil and Sombrerete in particular were big transient stations for such families.
Thanks for letting us know about your breakthroughs.
Hi All,
Charles asked me this question and since my research is not around
Nochistlan I thought I'd forward this on to the group. If any of you all
have this information maybe it would be good to make a file in the
Joseph and Charles,
I know one of the major Estancias was La Estanica de los Delgadillos. I will look up some of the others and get back to you soon.
Alicia
Joseph Puentes wrote:
Hi All,
Charles asked me this question and since my research is not around
Nochistlan I thought I'd forward this on to the group. If any of you all
have this information maybe it would be good to make a file in the
reference area of the group for the Estancias.
thanks,
joseph
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nochistlan/La Estancias
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 09:12:02 -0700
From: Charles Clark
To: Joseph Puentes
Joseph:
Do you have a list of the La Estancias ... in and around Nochistlan?
I have been looking for the complete name of the birth place of my
grandfather, Pedro Rodriguez born in 1883 in "La Estancia." He was
married to Maria Ulloa and they had many many common ancestors with many
of them listed in Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias' book. That is
how the place was described by my mother and her sisters but I know
that that was only part of the name. I thought that the birth
certificate would give the full name except that it is too hard to read.
I recently saw pictures of it and it seemed a bit larger than I
expected. I also saw pictures of his house which I am told is over 300
years old.
As always, I appreciate any help you can give me.
Sincerely,
Charles Clark
Nathan,
Is this the same Diego ROMO DE VIVAR that was born 12 Mar 1589 in Relves,
Toledo, Espana? If so, he is my 8th GGrandfather.
Ken Alva
Southern California
Its wonderful to hear from you!
We're practically neighbors. I'm just over the hill in Monterey Park.
I've never seen an exact DOB on Diego Romo de Vivar. All I've seen is a birth year, 1608.
But your date is probably more accurate. Maybe him, or his father.
Ernie Alderete
Hi Ernie:
This is what I have on Diego Romo de Vivar:
B:12 Mar 1589 Rielves Toledo, España. Died: Santa Maria del Rio Florido,
Chihuahua, Mexico.
I don't know what data you got from Ken. was it the same as above?
John Gonzalez
wildomar, CA.
1gnzlz@verizon.net
Gracias to all member that responded favorable.
My project has taken me from prehispanic time to the present(1968-71). I have tried to incorporate several short stories "cuentos" and novels that has a "Fiesta" or celebration of somewhere within the drama/dialog. Some have a political overtone, but I feel strongly that the message must continue and that more mexicanos/hispanics/chicanos must be aware. I hope I don't offend or shock anyone. Thanks, Francisco.
yes go and have a look it is at: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14482
or you can go to "Files" and "Books and Articles" and then to "Fiestas
Mexicanas Project"
thanks Francisco.
joseph
francisco sevilla wrote:
>Gracias to all member that responded favorable.
> My project has taken me from prehispanic time to the present(1968-71). I have tried to incorporate several short stories "cuentos" and novels that has a "Fiesta" or celebration of somewhere within the drama/dialog. Some have a political overtone, but I feel strongly that the message must continue and that more mexicanos/hispanics/chicanos must be aware. I hope I don't offend or shock anyone. Thanks, Francisco.
>
> Gracias a todos los miembros que respondieron favorable.
> El proyecto me ha llevado desde los tiempos precortecinos al presente (1968-71). He tratado de incorporar algunos cuentos y novelas que se refieren a una "fiesta o a una celebracion dentro de la drama/dialogo. Algunos de los cuentos tienen un tono politico, pero creo que el mensaje tiene que continuar y espero que mas mexicanos/as/hispanos/chicanos/ tienen que darse cuenta. Espero no ofender o alarmar a nadie. Gracias Francisco
>
> PS/PD Lo siento pero el trabajo esta en Espanol..I'm sorry but the project was done in Spanish.
>
>
> Ok I have created a file in NUESTROS RANCHOS web page, the file name is fiestas mexicanas project or proyecto a ranchos.doc
>
>
>
Francisco,
Que proyecto tan interesante. Voy leyendo tu presentacion y al llegar a celebracion de la Candelaria me trae muchos recuerdos. Mi tio Agustin Olmos que en paz descanse, acostumbraba sembrar su cosecha en el dia de la Candelaria. Primero mandaba decir una misa y invitaba a toda la familia a la misa y despues de la misa a una cena donde se servian tamales y atole de chocolate. A la persona que le habia tocado el niño Dios en la rosca de los reyes magos le tocaba traer los tamales y el atoloe. Hasta hoy que lei tu discurso no sabia yo porque se hacia eso o el porque de la tradicion.
Francisco, what an interesting project. As I read your Fiestas de Mexico project and I arrived at the section where you describe the feast of La Candelaria on Feb 2 it brings back fond memories of my tio Agustin Olmos who now rests in peace. He would, when he was alive sow seeds for his upcoming crops on Feb 2 and then he would invite all family members and we would gather together for a mass in honor of all family members who had passed into the other world.
For the feast of the Epiphany on Jan 6 a Rosca de Reyes is made and in it is a very small image of the baby Jesus. When this pastry ring of the 3 kings is served, the persons who gets this small image is responsible for bringing the tamales and atole de chocolate to the family gathering of La Candelaria on Feb 2.
Thank You so much Francisco........you brought to mind so many wonderful traditions in my family.
Con mucho agradecimiento........Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
Susana's Zacatecas File Now Uploaded