mt dna testing - How is it done

Thank you Victor and everyone else who shared info on dna and mtdna.  It looks like time will make the tests even more affordable and understandable for the layman..
 
In doing the records provided by the LDS centers on the marriages, births, baptisms and deaths of our Mexican Ancestors I've gathered information that only mtdna and dna tests will prove or disprove.  Mainly the discovery of African Ancestors that my Mexican born family insist never occurred!  Telling them that Mulato Esclavos married Indios who then married Espanol's doesn't seem to make believers of them..We are obviously Mestizo's and I hope to prove we are all Mexico had to offer!  I only wish I had reason to think I have Jerish origins too but I don't. Oh well, I can't have it all!  I did find Mulato's in my lines in Zacatecas (Alcala/Seranoo)  and Jalisco (Figueroa/Rolon) in the 1700's.
 
On a side note, I went to Mexico for the first time 2 years ago and tried to find records of birth and marriage for my

Genealogia Diaz del Castillo/Martin del Campo

Hola Francisco,

Tengo mucho interes en ver tu información genealogica. Yo tengo 
varios ancestros con el apellido Martín del Campo. Mi apellido 
materno es Díaz, pero no se si fué Díaz del Castillo, Díaz de Sandi o 
Díaz Infante. El Díaz mas lejano que tengo en record es José Antonio 
Díaz, nacido entre 1740-1748. Tres de mis abuelos fueron nacidos en 
Los Altos de Jalisco. Te invito a que revises mi archivo y dime si 
encuentras alguna rama en común.

Saludos,

María Cortez

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Francisco Martin 
 wrote:
> Hola Joseph.
>  
>    ya esta casi terminada, fue de gran utilidad la informacion de 
Francisco Hernandez, por cierto te queria preguntar que software, 
utilizan para hacer el arbol genealogico que lo pone en recuadro a 
cada una de las personas. ya que el de Ancestry, no lo pone y solo 
maneja una sola rama a la vez o me podrias informar como hacerle para 
bajarlo y avisrte?
>  
>   Por cierto la semana pasada estuve en Los

DNA discussion

I've been following the discussion on the DNA testing with much 
interest. My brother did the 9 marker test, but did not post his 
results on Gary Felix's page.  I did mention it to him, but either he's 
not interested or it just slipped his mind.  I have a copy of the 
results and would be interested in posting the results on this site if 
Joseph decides to collect that data.  I haven't done much research on 
my own regarding this subject, and I am happy to see that we have 
several people in this group with so much knowledge to share.

Maria

p.s. My brother's haplogroup is R1b. Our surname is Sanchez and 3 of 
our grandparents were from the Los Altos de Jalisco area. The 4th 
grandparent was from Tizapan Jalisco (near Lake Chapala).



Name Calling

Emilie,
 
I laughed when I saw the word surumata. We in our family still use it to chide ourselves or family members to imply "you dummy" when we do something stupid or are incompetent at something. I don't know that it's a word that exists in the spanish language dictionary. Thanks for putting this out there. I have never heard the word tarayata.
 
These last couple of days have been extremely engaging in terms of the dialogue going back and forth. We have discussed escribir en español, DNA project and language...........how exciting to hear intelligent people communicate thoughts, ideas, facts and theories and many subjects that relate to our heritage.
¡Gracias a todos!...........Alicia

Emilie Garcia wrote:
I wonder if anyone in the group knows the meaning of two words used by my parents to chide us when we were children.  My mother, a Native American-Mexican from New Mexico used to call me "surumata".  My father, who was from Jerez, Zacatecas, used to call me

Question mark

Hello John,

Try the following instructions: 

"Click Start, Settings, Control Panel, Regional and
Language Options. Click the Language(s) tab. In Win
XP, click Details, then Add. Choose an Input language
(English United States) and a Keyboard Layout
(International English). Use Apply to finish the
process; the Windows installation CD may be needed."

Read the instructions on how to switch or select keyboard layouts.  
You can select also which one you prefer as the default layout.

Let us know if you need any other help!

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "John Gonzalez" 1gnzlz@v...> wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I don't know what version of Windows other people are using.  I am 
using Windows XP Home Edition and when I press the Alt+? I get 
nothing, just a pleasent little sound. I tried both Alt keys.
> I am sticking with Alt+168, it hasn't failed me yet!  As far as the 
exclamation symbol is concerned, I just do it the old fashion way: 
Shift +1. 
> 
> 
> John Gonzalez  
> 1gnzlz@v

re Family Tree DNA Project

Esperanza,

Regarding the question addressed to me, my haplotype is indeed listed 
at Gary Felix's web page among the Villarreal surname list.  I have 
several genetic matches or near matches, including your cousin 
Homero, all of whom have been newly rediscovered distant cousins to 
me.  

Our DNA shows the very high likelihood of sharing a common ancestor 
but at 6 generations back so far on my paternal lineage I still 
haven't found where our genealogical branches join, which means that 
it is a little further back into the previous century.  I'm still 
following the paper trail!  One very exciting discovery is that as we 
look deeper into our Nuevo León roots we're finding that they lead 
back to Zacatecas.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, latina1955@a... wrote:
>   
> Hi Prima,
> I am curious about your brother's DNA - what was he able to learn.  
In lieu of our possible connection, I would be extremely 
curious....If you look at Gary Felix's chart, I am related to Homero

Name Calling

Emilie,

Those two words are definitely not found in the dictinary of the "Real 
Academia Española".  

I'm familiar with one similar word "zurumbato" or "zurumbata" in its 
feminine gender.  I ignore its true meaning or origin but in the 
context that I remember hearing that adjetive it was always applied to 
someone with a poor head, like stunned or stupid, in the sense of a 
temporary mental numbness.  For example, "andaba bien zurumbato".

This link below shows another example.  Just click and scroll down to 
example 16:

http://www.aaanet.org/sla/jla/wea_13_2_haney_clips.htm

The other word, "tarayata" I really don't remember.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"  
wrote:
> I wonder if anyone in the group knows the meaning of two words used 
by my parents to chide us when we were children.  My mother, a Native 
American-Mexican from New Mexico used to call me "surumata".  My 
father, who was from Jerez, Zacatecas, used to call me "tarayata

Question mark

Hi:

 

I don't know what version of Windows other people
are using.  I am using Windows XP Home Edition and when I press the Alt+? I
get nothing, just a pleasent little sound. I tried both Alt keys.

I am sticking with Alt+168, it hasn't failed me
yet!  As far as the exclamation symbol is concerned, I just do it the
old fashion way: Shift +1. 

 

Back to genealogy... I have the film of Baptism
records from 1872 to 1877 for the Jalostotitlan area.  If anybody has
relatives that were born during this timeframe I can look them up. Just Email
me. 

 

John Gonzalez 

re Family Tree DNA Project

 
Hi Prima,
I am curious about your brother's DNA - what was he able to learn.  In lieu of our possible connection, I would be extremely curious....If you look at Gary Felix's chart, I am related to Homero Villarreal several times over (surnames include Villarreal, Bermea, Trevino) from both my paternal grandparents!
 
From my limited understanding about Jewish culture, it seems that there was a definite separation of the three "tribes", generally kept that way by the use of their last names and religious customs.  Because of this and the relatively slow migration patterns that occured in early history, there appears to be a definite correlation between certain Jewish sects, in their DNA.  I could be mistaken.......The way it was explained to me by several Jewish friends:  a Cohnan can only marry another proven Cohnan though the paternal line.  This is the "highest sect", but according to my friends, they feel it is a way to subjugate the other "tribes".  All other sects were allowed

Name Calling

I wonder if anyone in the group knows the meaning of two words used by my parents to chide us when we were children.  My mother, a Native American-Mexican from New Mexico used to call me "surumata".  My father, who was from Jerez, Zacatecas, used to call me "tarayata".  What are these names?  Are they Indian tribes, or what?
 
Thanks,
  
   Emilie Garcia
   Port Orchard, WA




Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

DNA

First of all, I did not understand the comment about the priest not having the faith.  Several of the early priests in Mexico were really hidden Jews. Maybe even later priests have been.  Their parents were hiding from the Inquisition which had followed them to Mexico.  One of my Carbajal ancestors was burned at the stake in Mexico City in the lat e 1500's for not refuting his Hebrew faith.  The secretly Jewish parents of these priests had put them in the Catholic seminaries, since they wanted their sons to get an education and learn Hebrew legally, and they practiced Judaism secretly.
 
Santos asked whose DNA they used to prove a connection to "Cohanim":  the Jews have ancient traditions that have allowed them to track their ancestry wherever they go---remember all those "begots" in the Bible?  So, it was a descendant of Aaron that is one of the 18 men that can be traced to the 18 separate haplogroups, these men being the ancestors of us all and thus Y (male DNA) can only be traced

DNA

Joseph,

I have done the DNA testing for the lines of my four grandparents. I think it would be 
interesting to have everyone share this information with the rancho group if they feel wish to 
do so. As you know, Gary Felix has a nice review of Y-DNA results on Mexican-American 
males, who are participating in his project via Family Tree DNA, http://members.tripod.com/
~GaryFelix/index63.htm.

Ed



mt dna testing

Thanks, Victor, I'll consider this. Marge:)

On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:15 PM, Victor Villarreal wrote:


There's a company that does the DNA tests for free but the results

take a lot of time to be posted on their site, about a year.



The name is Sorensons Molecular Genealogy Foundation:

http://smgf.org/



Or maybe you and other interested relatives can pitch in for a test of

one of your boy cousins?







--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza

wrote:

> My father and his brothers are dead and I don't have any brothers and

> forget my boy cousins...son tan tacaños!!!! they'll never pay to get

> the DNA results.  Marge

> On Jun 21, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:

>

> > Members and cousins:

> >  It would be very interesting if we all had our dna

> >  results, but I believe we would be very much the same

> >  since we share the same Mexican ancestors and they

> >  also came from the same region of Mexico, Spain,

> >  Portugal.

> >

> > 

re Family Tree DNA Project

Santos,

Just one more thing:  I had heard about "Gato por Liebre" but I never
heard about "Gato por Oso" hehe!

Which reminds me, Mr. Greenspan is a business man not a scientist!

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Villarreal" 
wrote:
> I'm going to start this with a saying in Spanish: No comas ansias,
Santos.
> 
> You do good by playing the devil's advocate in all of this.  Your
> attitude is just right when entering this highly speculative field of
> genetic genealogy.  
> 
> Always try to rely on scientific findings for your answers.  And even
> then, remember that much of what scientists postulate are theories and
> hypothesis.  As a starting point for your research on your first
> question, check the following link regarding the Cohanim:
> 
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Behar-AJHG-03.pdf
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Santos Luna  wrote:
> > I was very excited when I read about the DNA

re Family Tree DNA Project

I'm going to start this with a saying in Spanish: No comas ansias, Santos.

You do good by playing the devil's advocate in all of this.  Your
attitude is just right when entering this highly speculative field of
genetic genealogy.  

Always try to rely on scientific findings for your answers.  And even
then, remember that much of what scientists postulate are theories and
hypothesis.  As a starting point for your research on your first
question, check the following link regarding the Cohanim:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Behar-AJHG-03.pdf

Best Regards,

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Santos Luna  wrote:
> I was very excited when I read about the DNA Project, and offered to
pay for the testing, using my brother's DNA. My brother has done some
research on his own, and has not been given any conclusive answers. 
>  
> In the scenario below...
>  
> 1. Who's DNA did they use to prove a connection to "Cohanim"?
> 
> 2. Where did they get the DNA for Moses

mt dna testing

There's a company that does the DNA tests for free but the results
take a lot of time to be posted on their site, about a year.

The name is Sorensons Molecular Genealogy Foundation:
http://smgf.org/

Or maybe you and other interested relatives can pitch in for a test of
one of your boy cousins?



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza 
wrote:
> My father and his brothers are dead and I don't have any brothers and 
> forget my boy cousins...son tan tacaños!!!! they'll never pay to get 
> the DNA results.  Marge
> On Jun 21, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> > Members and cousins:
> >  It would be very interesting if we all had our dna
> >  results, but I believe we would be very much the same
> >  since we share the same Mexican ancestors and they
> >  also came from the same region of Mexico, Spain,
> >  Portugal.
> >
> >  Any comments?
> >
> >  Alberto.
> >
> >  --- Margarita Vallazza  wrote:
> >
> >  > If we can only go

re Family Tree DNA Project - Sephardim and Moors

Emilie,

As always, it is evident that you're doing your homework and usually
marching one step ahead of the rest of us.

Like yourself, I have been most intrigued by all those stories that
you mentioned about the early Spanish colonizers, particularly more so
when I realised that the Y haplogroup to which I belong to is not the
typical Western European haplogroup but one that is, as I previously
said, very widespread all around the Mediterranean sea, including
North Africa, the Middle East, the Balcans and, of course, the Iberian
Peninsula.

As I understand many of our group here have not studied this topic in
detail, I felt compelled to point out a couple of facts that I believe
could be helpful to all:

Ethnicity is not determined alone by your DNA haplogroup.  In other
words, having "X" haplogroup does not automatically place you in any
ethnic group, regardless of all those ancient stories.  If your
genealogical and historical research shows documented ancestral
evidence of certain

mt dna testing

Alberto,

You are very much correct.  According to Gary Felix's Genealogy of
Mexico DNA Surname Project, the current breakdown of all persons
tested is the following:

Native American 17%
Nordic 8%
Semitic 20%
Western European 46%
Other 8%

Of course this is not an accurate reflection of Mexican Hispanics'
ethnic composition, because this is not a scientifically sampled
population, but it gives an approximation or estimate of what it truly is.

Victor

The link to the Genealogy of Mexico DNA Project is:
http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alberto Duarte  wrote:
> Members and cousins:
> It would be very interesting if we all had our dna
> results, but I believe we would be very much the same
> since we share the same Mexican ancestors and they
> also came from the same region of Mexico, Spain,
> Portugal.
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Alberto.
> 





mt dna testing

Margarita,

The limitation about only being able to test the female line does not
depend on the site doing the testing, but is something inherent to the
way men and women are genetically different.

However, you can determine your genetic lineage by testing anyone in
the direct lineage of your father, that is, your father himself or an
uncle, a brother of yours, a son of your uncle, even a grandson of
your father.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza 
wrote:
> If we can only go through the female line, then I'll have to go through 
> another site.  My mother was from Scotland, and her mother was from 
> Ireland.:(  Marge
> On Jun 21, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
> 
> > I would love to see how others did thier dna tests. I feel cheated as
> >  a female that I can only do the mtdna (female)line. I ordered mine
> >  through Gary Felix's site.  My husband ordered his from another even
> >  though it's the same lab.. he does not

re Family Tree DNA Project

I was very excited when I read about the DNA Project, and offered to pay for the testing, using my brother's DNA. My brother has done some research on his own, and has not been given any conclusive answers.
 
In the scenario below...
 
1. Who's DNA did they use to prove a connection to "Cohanim"?

2. Where did they get the DNA for Moses & Aaron?

3. For the African ancestor where did they get that DNA? There are 51 countries in the Continent of Africa. From Morocco to South Africa...and the islands. Were samples taken from individuals from most of these countries?

As a side note, from an Egyptologist, the current Egyptians are not of the line that actually build the pyramids. But, that is another topic. The point is, that the people's of the world have always been mobile.

Gosh, I hate to sound like the devils advocate, but would hope that this folks are not giving us un "Gato por Oso.

Emilie, perhaps, Mr. Greenspan can offer some positive insight.

Santos Luna

Emilie Garcia

mt dna testing - How is it done

Hello Linda,

If you already ordered and sent your samples through Gary Felix's
site, that means that the company doing your testing is Family Tree DNA.

What the mtDNA test will show is what haplogroup your
maternal-genealogical line belongs to. This will identify the
biogeographical regions and migration routes of your deep ancestry;
deep meaning very, very old ancestry.

In the case of YDNA is something similar for the paternal line, except
that the genetic markers in the Y chromosome mutate more rapidly so
they can be used to trace genealogical relationships (by matching to
others) on a shorter time scale (hundreds of years).  Obviously, this
kind of test is most useful from the genealogist perspective.

There's a third kind of test done by a different company which tests
not the Y chromosome, nor the mitochondrial (mt) DNA, but the
autosomal DNA.  This DNA represents the bulk of our DNA, the genetic
accumulation or load of all our ancestors that define what and who we
are, not

Spanish Question Mark

FYI
Here's the English version of my question to Emilie:

Have you tried the "Alt" key to the right side of the space bar and
the key with the question mark?

I can see, you got that right!

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> 
> 
> Victor Villarreal wrote:
> 
> >Hello Emilie,
> >
> >I too have my keyboard configured for International English.  As you 
> >know, in my case Spanish is my native language and English is my
second 
> >one.
> >
> >Regarding the upside down question mark (or should it be right side 
> >up), ¿Has intentado usar la combinación de teclas "Alt" a la derecha 
> >del la barra espaciadora y la tecla con el signo de interrogación?
> >
> sorry but I didn't get it. . .can you give us this last sentence in
English?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph
> 
> ps: are Teclas "keys" . . .actually as I'm reading it again I think I'm 
> getting it. Tell me if this is right, "Have you intended to use the 
> combination keys Alt to the right of the

YDNA/MtDNA

Joseph,

It took me a while to make the decision of doing the dna tests but
eventually I could not stand anymore to ignore it.

My Y-DNA test showed that my haplogroup is "E3b", a type of haplogroup
that is very widespread all around the Mediterranean sea, and my
mtDNA, on the maternal side, came as "A", one of the five Amerindian
haplogroups.  

So far, my closest matches on my paternal lineage have all been
persons that share my own surname, whom I have only known of now that
I have been researching these matters.  On my maternal DNA I have no
matches so far.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> I did both mine. I posted my Ydna results to the group but haven't for 
> my Mt dna. My Mt dna goes back to Africa probably a black slave got
into 
> my line many generations ago.
> 
> I'm going to eventually make up a YDNA/MtDNA folder in the files area 
> where those that are interested can post their results. As far as I
know 
> very few in the

Spanish Language Characters

Emilie,

Using the right side ALT and the ? keys simultaneously produces the ¿
symbol.  It does work.  Also, the admiration symbol ¡ can be typed by
the use of the right side ALT key plus the ! key.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
> Hi, Victor,
> 
> I understand what you said in Spanish about using right side ALT and
the ? key to get the Spanish character for "el signo de
interrogacion", but since I set my computer back to the factory
settings, I have not tried it.  Does that work? (Sorry I couldn't
respond in Spanish).  When I reset my computer for the Spanish
characters I still might not be able to have that one character work.
 I found that the exclamation character doesn't work with my MSN
Explorer.  I don't have Outlook Express (Internet Explorer) because my
MSN Explorer e-mail is web-based only in order to not have my e-mails
to other Internet Providers blocked because I have a msn.com address
on another e-mail account.
> 
>

mt dna testing

My father and his brothers are dead and I don't have any brothers and forget my boy cousins...son tan tacaños!!!! they'll never pay to get the DNA results. Marge

On Jun 21, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:


Members and cousins:

It would be very interesting if we all had our dna

results, but I believe we would be very much the same

since we share the same Mexican ancestors and they

also came from the same region of Mexico, Spain,

Portugal.



Any comments?



Alberto.



--- Margarita Vallazza wrote:



> If we can only go through the female line, then I'll

> have to go through

> another site.  My mother was from Scotland, and her

> mother was from

> Ireland.:(  Marge

> On Jun 21, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long

> wrote:

>

> > I would love to see how others did thier dna

> tests. I feel cheated as

> >  a female that I can only do the mtdna

> (female)line. I ordered mine

> >  through Gary Felix's site.  My husband ordered

> his from