Nuestros Ranchos Site

On the subject of building accurate, easy to follow pedigrees:

The following is an excerpt from the latest newsletter from Pat Gooldy of Ye Olde Genealogy Shoppe in Indiana:

"One of the pitfalls in searching huge databases is the peril of finding a name and assuming that is the individual for which you are searching when indeed that gentleman is not the right age, not in the right place, and indeed, is not related to your fellow at all. That only leads to mythology, not genealogy, and many miffed and confused descendants wondering why they can not follow the scenario for the family you have built. You are building not a pedigree, but a nightmare for your descendants.

Genealogy means many small steps taken in the effort to build a pedigree. Each step must be tested in many ways to be sure it is not a mis-step. The larger the database, the more options you have, but also the more risk of making a mistake".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----

Test for Joseph

(Espanol sigue abajo)

I have noticed that many of the new members' genealogy files in the files section are not in a standard genealogy report format. That makes understanding the information very difficult and therefore takes away from the value of the group, which is to share information.

As this is a group for serious genealogy researchers, I think it behooves every member to understand and use (as much as possible) standard genealogy reports when sharing genealogy information. A good place to start for those that do not yet have sophisticated genealogy software (such as FamilyTree Maker or Legacy Family Tree) would be to dowload PAF, which is available for free from familysearch.org. You can download free user manuals from the site as well:

http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?cat…

Cindy's list has a comprehensive list of genealogy software along with articles that compare and review the software:

http://www.cyndislist.com/software.htm

== ESPANOL ==
He visto que muchas de las genealogias de los nuevos miembros en la seccion de carpetas de archivos no son reported estandares de genealogia. Eso resulta en que la informacion sea dificil de entender y a causa de esto disminuye su beneficio para el grupo, ya que no se comparte la informacion.

Como un grupo de genealogistas serios, yo creo que es la responsabilidad de cada miembro entender y usar (cuando posible) reported de genealogia estandares cuando compartimos informacion genealogica. Para aquellos que aun no tienen software de genealogia avanzado (tal como Family Tree Maker o Legacy Family Tree), seria bueno descargar el programa de PAF que queda disponible gratuitamente en familysearch.org. De ese sitio tambien se pueden descargar los manuales para el software:

http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?cat…

Cindy's list tiene una lista comprensiva de software genealogico asi como una lista de articulos que critican y comparan las varias opciones de software:

http://www.cyndislist.com/software.htm

!Hola! me da mucho gusto saber que existe un grupo tan animado buscando las raices de nuestros antepasados ,espero yo tambien poder contribuir en lo que pueda.Mi objetivo es poder hallar informacion de la siguiente familia;Justo Martinez(bisabuelo) Francisca Contreras (bisabuela),Dominga Martinez Contreras (abuela), Toribio Casas (abuelo).Dominga tuvo una sobrina llamada Maria de Jesus Martinez y su esposo Manuel de lara y ellos tuvieron un hijo en 1944 que se llamo Ramiro De lara Martinez.Que tengan mucho exito en su busqueda.Carlos s Casas www.nuestros ranchos.com/node/15508 Joseph contestando a tu pregunta ;creo que Temaxcal no era un apellido sino un pueblo y creo que por eso estaba escrito en la tarjeta que le mando su sobrina.hasta luego!!!

---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Mickey was very kind to ask George Ryskamp for his input about Bill
Figueroa's question. He is very busy right now making preparations for a
trip to Spain and he said:

He would search the Argena Website, He said early land grants would be
under "Tierras". He thinks that you would find the info in both the
Argena, (Archivo de la Nacion) and Archivo de las Indias.

joseph

ps: thanks Mickey

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Hi Patria & anyone interested in Ayotlan,
I have created a Ayotlan folder under Jalisco. I have posted 1 photo of Ayotlan so far and will be putting another 40 photos or so to share with all of you when I get an opportunity. These photos are from a trip that I took with my husband and my mother to Ayotlan back in 2004.
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 5:20:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayotlan, Santa Rita, Jalisco

Patricia -

Thanks for that great article with all those photos. My husband's ancestors, the Villalobos, Morones, and Peres were from Ayo El Chico, now Ayotlan. I printed out the article and most of the photos for him.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayotlan, Santa Rita, Jalisco

Dear Group--

I came across this site on Wednesday--

http://www.stormlake.com/mexico/index.htm

which shows Santa Rita, Jalisco, where my husband was
born. Apparently a delegation of people came from
Iowa in 2005 to visit. I know that there are a few
people who are researching in Ayotlan, which is also
featured, so this might be of interest to them.

On our trip to Santa Rita in December, I took quite a
few pictures. If you would be interested in seeing
what the land looks like around Santa Rita and this
part of los Altos, send me an email at
canprin@yahoo.com.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton

While we are on the Gutierres or Gutierrez family, I have a question. Someone entered into the LDS site a Gregorio Gutierrez Jauregui born May 25, 1889 in Valle de Guadalupe to Teodoro Gutierrez and Petra Jauregui. However, no information was on the 2002 Ancestral file and the message on the record say no additional information is available. Does this belong to anyone in the group?

Other children born to Teodoro and Petra are:

Casiana b. 1884 San Miguel El Alto, Rancho La Mesa, married to Atilano Baragas and their children born in
Valle de Guadalupe.
Francisca b. 1888 San Miguel El Alto, Rancho Sobera
Enriqueta b. 1905 Valle de Guadalupe
Virginia ???? (her children born in Valle de Guadalupe and she was married to Espiridion Casillas)
Perfecta ??? (her children born in Valle de Guadalupe and she was married to Leon Casillas)

I am asking as Petra Jauregui is Catarina Jauregui's (possibly from Ojo de Agua?) sister. I estimate that Petra Jauregui and Teodoro Gutierrez were married in early 1880's in San Miguel, but have not found the marriage as of yet. Would love to hook up with the submitter of Gregorio Gutierrez! By the way, the early 1800's records from San Miguel El Alto that I am viewing have oodles of births from Rancho Ojo de Agua, but so far no Jauregui's and I am about half way through the film. If anyone needs a record from the baptisms 1821-1832 San Miguel El Alto, let me know I would be happy to print it and scan it. Right now the printer at the LDS FHC is broken, but they are waiting on a new machine, so it may take a little bit.

Maureen Bejar

In order for genealogies within the group to be available to all they
should be posted in the "Files" --> "Members Genealogies" --> "Your Last
Name, Your First Name" area of the group. Go there and open your folder
and then upload your genealogy.

THE GENEALOGIES SHOULD NOT BE SENT TO THE GROUP VIA EMAILS. The emails
don't properly group the genealogies so they can be available in the
future. So if you have an update that you want to send to the group go
to your folder and upload a file there and then copy and paste the URL
of your folder into an email and send it to the group with a description
of where you are researching and the surnames you have researched.

ALSO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not send in genealogies that have living
individuals or even deceased individuals that are as close as your
parents both for security and privacy sake. Sometimes Financial
Information Passwords are chosen based on your Mother's Maiden name and
if you go and post that information via an email to the group then the
whole internet connected world will suddenly have your Financial
Password [you did know that the nuestrosranchos.org email archives are
Public, didn't you?].

So to recap:

1) No genealogies should be sent to the group via emails.

2) No living individuals should be included in any genealogies made
available to the group members both for privacy and security reasons
(especially your mother's maiden name).

thanks,

joseph

ps: who in the group can come up with a more elegant way of wording the
above email? I would like a better version of the above so I can send it
out when folks first come into the group so they will not automatically
start sending genealogies to the group. so if you have good english
skills and can word it better than this and even suggest other ideas
that I have forgotten to list to new members please take a "try" at
properly wording a version of the message that I can send to brand new
members.

thanks

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Dear Group--

I came across this site on Wednesday--

http://www.stormlake.com/mexico/index.htm

which shows Santa Rita, Jalisco, where my husband was
born. Apparently a delegation of people came from
Iowa in 2005 to visit. I know that there are a few
people who are researching in Ayotlan, which is also
featured, so this might be of interest to them.

On our trip to Santa Rita in December, I took quite a
few pictures. If you would be interested in seeing
what the land looks like around Santa Rita and this
part of los Altos, send me an email at
canprin@yahoo.com.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton

My Opinion on what naming convention we should use: that which our
relatives used: Given Name, Fathers Surname, Mothers Surname

If we go mixing it up with the US style where sometimes the mothers
Maiden name goes in the middle then that will only lead to confusion.
but if you absolutely need to use that naming style at a bare minimum
you need to "Announce" that you are doing that. I think it is fair to
say that many if not most of the people on this list are using the
Mexican Naming Convention.

Just in case it isn't clear let me give an example: Julio de Jesus
Puente Varela ---his given name = "Julio de Jesus"; his fathers name
"Cecilio Puente" and his mothers name: "Dominga Varela." [Julio de Jesus
happens to be my GG grandfather born in Rancho de Animas, Santa Maria de
Los Angeles, Jalisco in 1852].

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Hello Arturo and others who shared ideas,
Blas was married to Maria Zubiate Cisneros somewhere in Mexico but I'm not sure where. Maria was around 7 years younger than he was and was from Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua. I even have her parent's names which I got from her brother's SSI record.
I don't know how they met but I suspect that Blas was a miner in Zacatecas first, he then met his wife Maria maybe through their families involvement in mining (workers), they had their first 5 children in Chihuahua (not 100% sure), and then my grandfather Lorenzo Cisneros Gutierrez was the last child born in Sierra Mojada Coahuila in 1903. They came to the U.S., by train (according to Lorenzo's naturalization papers) around 1906.
Is it possible that some families never baptised their children because they were moving from local to local wherever there was work??
I should probably first check the Sierra Mojada Coahuila Civil Registry to see if they have Lorenzo's civil birth record. Maybe that will have more info on his parents Blas and Maria.
It seemed that because Blas was a miner, he had to go where the work was taking along his family on the train with him. Sierra Mojada in Coahuila was a mining town from what I have read, can't find a local parish though, I'll search some more.
Thanks Arturo for helping me think this through. I'll go back and plan my path forward on the research. I like a new Genealogy research challenge!
Yolanda
Jalisco/Zacatecas

----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:30:04 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez in Zacatecas (La Sauceda)

Yolanda:

If you have credible evidence that Blas Gutierrez was born in La Sauceda de la Borda, Zacatecas, then you should start by identifying what church he might have been baptized in. La Sauceda used to be a municipality in Zacatecas (look at the Cubas Diccionario Geografico from the links section of the site and look up simply "Sauceda"). There is no such municipality now, though from my meager research it looks like La Sauceda would now be part of Veta Grande.

If you look in the familysearch.org website and look up Sauceda de la Borda, you will note that the local parish is San Juan Bautista and that they have the following films for the region:

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1861-1862, 1867- 1869, 1876-1884
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1884-1896
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1896-1917
Información matrimonial 1869-1871, 1877-1880
Información matrimonial 1880-1884
Información matrimonial 1884-1889
Información matrimonial 1890-1900

That means that the parrish did not exist when your ancestor was born in 1844 and he would have had to been baptized in a nearby town's parrish... perhaps Panuco or Vetagrande?

Vetagrande's records begin in 1756 but they are missing baptism records for the 1840 and 1850s...

Panuco's records begin even earlier in 1684, but they are likewise missing baptism records for most of the 1840s...

I would suspect that your ancestor was in one of those two church's baptism records but they are now lost or destroyed and that is why you are having so much trouble finding him. Do you know if he was married in Mexico or the United States?

Blas is a full name, not a nickname. I also have an ancestor named Blas Gutierrez:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I414

Hello - I am having a difficult time trying to find my great grandfather's family history. His name is Blas Gutierrez and he supposedly was born in Sauceda de la Borda, Zacatecas Mexico in 1844. He died in Los Angeles on September 1, 1911. He was married to Maria Zubiate Cisneros born 1859, she died Dec. 7, 1908 in Los Angeles, California. I found his internment record and tried to find more information through the mortuary with no luck.
I don't have another surname for Blas but my mom's oldest sister says she remembers that he might have had another first name of Cornelio. I haven't been able to find a Cornlio Blas Gutierrez yet. But I also wonder if Blas is a nickname for another first name, for example I have seen "Nelli" used as a nickname for Manuela",or "Cuca" for Refugia. He did have family in Los Angeles who came in the early 1900's and they were the Chavez's of Los Angeles. Perhaps I can search on the other first name.

I was hoping to have some success researching the Gutierrez line by following Blas Gutierrez's cousins.
The following people are related to Blas Gutierrez but I'm not exactly sure how he connects with them (1st cousin, uncle, brother). :

Maximo Gutierrez & Perfecta De La Rosa
Married Feb. 15, 1863 in San Juan Bautista,
Panuco Zacatecas, Mexico

Children:
Candelario Gutierrez & Anastasia Martinez
Married Jul 10, 1882, Sauceda de la Borda, Zacatecas Mexico

Maria Ynes Gutierrez & Gerardo Chavez
Married Feb. 4, 1884 San Juan Bautista, Panuco, Zacatecas Mexico
Gerardo age at Marriage: 19
Maria Ynes age at Marriage: 18

Thanks for any research recommendations on Zacatecas parishes or information on the Gutierrez/Chavez line from Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Saw a reference to the following site: < http://www.footnote.com/ >
on Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak's blog page
< http://www.rootstelevision.com/blogs/megans-rootsworld.html >
See also: < www.footnote.com/nara > ; for insight to NARA's partnership with Footnote see Dick Eastman's review here: < http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/01/national_archiv… >

It is always interesting to see what is happening in the realm of genealogy in general; you never know when someone's idea will spark an investigation or help you see a problem (think Brick Wall) in a new light.

Have a great day - take care.

Natalie in Virginia

PS: Oh - the National Genealogical Society will hold it's Conference in Richmond, VA in mid-May. Check their website for details : < http://www.ngsgenealogy.org/ >

ncc

I am hoping the subject line is NOT alarming - I just wasn't quite sure how title my query.
Anyway ... I was @ my local FHC on Tues./Jan 9 to view a film I had ordered before the holidays.
On the box was a sticker message that I don't recall ever seeing before (see below):
"WARNING!
By contract between the Genealogical Society of Utah (GSU) and the owner(s) of some or all of the included records, this microfilm may not be
SOLD, DUPLICATED, EXTRACTED, or INDEXED
except under limited circumstances.
For further information contact FAMILY HISTORY CENTER SUPPORT, SLC, Utah
VIOLATION OF SUCH RESTRICTION(S) MAY RESULT IN CIVIL OR CRIMINAL LIABILITY!"

Note: I looked at some of the other film boxes in the drawers, and not all of them had this notice.
So - does anyone know about this "Warning"? I did not make an inquiry about this while at the FHC.

Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide.

Natalie in Virginia
Researching: CASTRO, GARCIA, DUENAS, DURAN, and others in the Valparaiso District, Sain Alto, and Sombrerete of ZACATECAS

Does anyone else have lineage in Huanusco, Zacatecas?

I am Daniel. I am from the Mormon Church, the sticker isn't all that big of a deal. The reson why people haven't seen the sticker on the films in the drawers is because those films in the drawers were ordered before the year 2000. Before the year 2000 patrons were able to take the films to ther FHCs if they wished there wasn't a strict policy as there is now. But something happened that I cant remeber because I was about 8 years old, but in 2000 the Counci from the Church made an act of 2000 which stated "From this day forward Microfilms should stay in the FHC it was orderd from and cant be moved elsewhere. Something like that. So the sticker was added to all new films coming in 2000. The sticker is just saying if you take it, destroy it, sell it, or anything else without the approval of the LDS Genealogy Society's APPPROVAL than you can be fined or even accused of criminal actions. Beause in reality coping microfilm isn't the $5 or $6 you pay it much more. My estimation is about $15 to copy one microfilm and the church pays at the willing of their expense and if people take the church is just wasting their. They want anyone being able to work on their genealogy. I hope this helps. -Daniel A. Mendez del Camino :)

Juanita,
Sorry to delay with this reply. The Rancho San Mateo to which I refer is in the Valparaiso District. The City of Valparaiso lies 90 KM south-west of Fresnillo (it is due-west of the city of Zacatecas, but there is no direct highway between Zacatecas and Valparaiso). I believe the RANCHO SAN MATEO is about 15-18 KM north-east of Valparaiso (my best estimate from the map I am looking at; it is an older map - 10 yrs+ ).
I hope this is helpful. In what district is your San Matias?

Natalie

Hello Ranchos members:

I created a document with instructions on creating Rich Text Format (.rtf) files from PAF reports. I put it in the Reference Materials folder.

If something isn't clear, please give me your feedback and I will try to make the instructions clearer.

Maria Cortez

Now - it just occured to me that when she dies (which I don't expect to
happen soon), I WILL BECOME the family elder, as I am the eldest of the
family of my generation - kind of a scary thought.
SO - are any of YOU the FAMILY ELDER? How do you feel about that role? I
guess I better get cracking on my research.

Just my 2 centavos.

Natalie

Natalie,
You bring up a very important question. I'm probably towards
the younger end of my paternal generation, and somewhere in the middle
on my maternal line, so am far from being an elder. Our little subgroup
here in N. Calif. have discussed this. When I get a chance, I do send
vital copies of birth, marriage, death records to some relatives that
are interested--nothing complete though. Actually I did send a complete
copy of my paternal line to my uncle in Mexico who is very interested,
but he is in his 80's. Hopefully if something happens to him, the info
won't get tossed. His children are not interested either, but he does
have the habit of showing what I send him to others in the family. Some
have told me to send them a copy of my finished product. When is a
genealogist finished!?! :)
Since I'm about 8 years away from retirement, and have two
relatively young children (11 & 14), I feel very overwhelmed by the task
at hand. My 14 year old has already told me that she won't carry on my
research. :( My 11 yr old says he will, but most 11 yr olds will say
anything to make their mother happy. Knowing that I am not immortal,
and that death can come at anytime, I always try to keep my files backed
up in several places. Our subgroup whom I'm connected to also share all
that we have in common, so I feel that I've covered many bases. My
advice is share, share, share. Someone down the line will always catch
the bug, and carry on, so keep these records available to them.
Thanks for bringing this up,
Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero
N. Calif.

Hello Maureen,

While researching microfilm for San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, I have
come across records from a Ranch called Ojo de Agua located in the
municipio of San Juan de los Lagos. I don't think that I have any
direct family from there, and being that I don't have any direct
Jaureguis in my family lines, I probably have not jotted down anything.
It wouldn't hurt to check out San Juan records.

Good luck.
Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero
Northern Calif.

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 17:12:28 -0500
From: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Origin of Catarina Jauregui
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <4599874C.1010507@nc.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

There is an Ojo de Agua in the Santa Maria de Los Angeles area of
Jalisco but not so sure it doesn't show up in the Colotlan records. . .I
can't remember which of these two it was that the actual records showed
up in.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Emilie:
> Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo
> de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and
> 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco.
> I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other

> leads would be wonderful. Thanks
>
> Maureen
>

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Emilie:
> Do you have any information on where I might find records for
Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and
1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I
might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other
leads would be wonderful. Thanks
>
> Maureen
>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Nuestros Ranchos] Yaqui Tribe]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:30:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Felix
To: Joseph Puentes

Hi Joseph,
there is no way to tell definitively. It is most likely Yaqui would be
similar to the Native Americans of the southwestern
United States. That would be more likely mtdna B and maybe C3 for ydna.
Although anything is possible.
Matches to this area (Sonora) would help in this regard.

Least likely would be mtdna D.

Gary

*/Joseph Puentes /* wrote:

Gary How do I go about explaining this?

joseph

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Yaqui Tribe
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:33:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Maureen Bejar
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
References: <481420.74952.qm@web55209.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Dear Linda: I have been looking all over for something on a Yakhi tribe, but I think I was given an
incorrect spelling! Your posting with Yaqui maybe the right
spelling. Per my mom-in-law, Catarina Jauregui may have been part Yaqui. Can you give me any
information on this? If I can convince one of the family member to submit to a DNA test, what
haplogroup would show as Yaqui? Thanks for any help.
Maureen

Alicia Carrillo (alliecar@pacbell.net) has sent you a news article.
(Email address has not been verified.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Personal message:

This is a very interesting new theory that I had not heard of before.

Alicia

Theory for mass deaths roils Mexico - Yahoo! News

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070107/ap_on_sc/mexico_ancient_plague

============================================================
Yahoo! News
http://news.yahoo.com/

Hello Patricia -
I have been to Ayo El Chico also about 4 years ago when my husband and I took my mother there for the first time. In fact she was the first in her family to ever visit Ayo El Chico. We videotaped and photographed the whole event which I would like to turn into a documentary some day. I've been to Ayo El Chico twice. We made fast friends with the notary at the local church called La Nuestra Senora de la Soledad. Every time we have visited we made a donation to the church and brought some nice candys for the notary. They know me pretty well at the church now as I corresponded with a nice notary named Josefina who always did some research for me. On my last trip they allowed me to use my scanner to copy some records. I was very careful handling these very old parish records. You probably know more about the history of Ayo El Chico than I do and would very much like any info. that you might have on this area.

These are the names that I found per my Duenas line:
Found these on Batch No: M604479 Source Call No: 0280789
Jose Casimiro Duenas Christened: Mar 11, 1809, San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mexico
Parents are:
Juan de los Santos Duenas & Maria Antonia Abad de Jesus Damiana Olmos married Feb. 23, 1784 San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mexico
Children of Juan and Maria Antonia are:
Maria Jacinta Duenas born 1816 in La Agua Caliente, Jal. Mex., marries Juan Pablo Navarro on Feb. 19, 1835 in San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Maria Ynes Duenas born 1815 (don't know local yet), marries Mateo Aguilar on Feb. 12, 1840, San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Gregoria Duenas born 1800 (don't know local yet), marries Jose Senon Rodrigues on Feb. 8, 1815, San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Jose Maria Duenas born 1795 (don't know local yet), marries Juana Gertrudis Camargo on April 19, 1815, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Jose Perfecto Duenas (no birth year or local yet), marries Antonia Gutierres on July 26, 1815, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Nasaria Duenas born 1802 (don't know year or local yet), marries Jose Rosalino Camargo on Oct. 30, 1822, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.

Check out batch M604481 where a line of Duenas can be found in Santa Rita. Perhaps there is a connection?? I didn't search for any offspring yet for any of these Duenas as I am still trying to trace the direct Luna line.
Let me know if I can provide more info.
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Casimiro DUENAS

Dear Yolanda--

I just read your information and found it very
exciting. My husband and I returned from almost 3
weeks vacation in Jalisco, Mexico on Thursday. We
spent 2 days in Guadalajara before going out to the
countryside.

Most of my research for my husband who is a GODINEZ
Garcia has been in the ranchos of Atotonilco el Alto,
which is the municipio right next to the Municipio of
Ayotlan. In the past, it was called Ayo el Chico.
The majority of the time we spent renovating the
family home which is located in Santa Rita, Ayotlan,
Jalisco. While at the Guadalajara airport, I bought a
map of Jalisco and to my dismay found it did not show
Santa Rita, a small town of about 5,000 people. It
did show other nearby places and some of those are
even smaller than Santa Rita.

I have one Casimiro DUENAS for whom I am looking. He
is listed as the father of Jose Refugio DUENAS. He
was not married to the mother of Jose Refugio. She
was listed as Rafaela LUQUE. The information on the
parents of this illigitimate child comes from the
marriage record of Jose Refugio DUENAS and his wife,
Bernardina del Refugio CHOLICO. They wed in
Atotonilco el Alto on 26 April 1882. Most of the
time, it seems that she used the name of Refugio
CHOLICO and her birthdate was 20 May 1862 in
Salitrillo, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico.
Other inportant family names on the tree of Bernardina
del Refugio are SEPULVEDA and MONTANO.

I have been looking for Calixta DUENAS born about 1857
in Valle, , Jalisco for almost 30 years. She was the
daughter of Anastacio DUENAS and Vicenta LOMELIN.
Except for Calixta's marriage to Fermin GUTIERREZ on
10 Feb 1876 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, I have not
been able to go any further back, only forward.
Apparently she was an orphan and I have not been able
to find birth, marriage, nor death information on her
parents.

If you have any further information on DUENAS lines in
the Ayo el Chico or Atotonilco el Alto areas, I would
like to hear about it.

I work at a Family History Center each week and I will
take your names along for those of the Ayo el Chico
area. I have a number of films on indefinte loan and
some cover the earlier years. I also have the 1930
Census of Ayo el Chico, which is a very good starting
point for researching. I will see if I can add
anything to what you have listed which seems to be
excellent.

I wish you well and hope to hear from you soon.

Patricia Diane Godinez AKA Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.

PS The GUTIERREZ names I have researched are from
Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

--- Yolanda Ochoa wrote:

Yolanda,

How wonderful that you were able to go to Ayo el Chico (Ayotlan?) and actually be allowed to handle original documents, etc. You must possess excellent powers of persuasion.

My husband has some ancestors from Ayo El Chico, circa early 1730s. Their surnames are Villalobos, Morones, and Peres.

We would love to see your film and photos, to see what the place looks like, etc. Maybe you can help me down the road in getting some records.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Joseph,

I think you are about to open a big can of frijoles(beans) with talk of opening it up to other states. Once those beans are out you won't know what to do with them and you will again be muy cansado!!! and none of us want that. What will happen is someone will say, pues mira nomas /look here, if he let Nayarit in maybe he can consider Chihuahua or Guanajuato.
We would all like to expand further but as you said before, there are other groups where we can do that. Ya Basta Jose, no mas estados !!! That's my vote and I'm sticking to my frijoles, or was that guns. Nothing against Nayarit mind you............but we can still include other states in our discussions as they weave in and out of Jal, Aguas and Zac, enough said, Ya callate Alicia antes de que metas la pata en el bote de frijoles.

Adios

----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 3:20:00 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nayarit: was: Trip to Jalisco, Aguascalientes and Zacatecas

Not boring at all in fact very very interesting. . .I envy the richness
of the details you have in your genealogy. I have dates and not nearly
so far back. thank you for sharing.

talking about Guatemala. . .one of your countrymen, Guillermo Castañeda
Lee did a podcast for the http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com podcast
project. Have a listen: http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/genealogy/other.html

thanks for sharing and who knows but we might need to open the door a
bit wider to include Tepic or would it be all of Nayarit? No my history
is lacking terribly in some areas. maybe we can have you send in more
material that would support the resolution to open the group to consider
Tepic (Nayarit). I've never been opposed to hearing a good argument and
the evidence to support it. Since this message really falls into the
category of research in our area of research I'm moving it over to the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list