Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila

Christobal de Medina married Maria de Avila (Abila) on May 2 1666 in Aguascalientes. In their marriage record their parents are not listed, and unfortunately the images of Marriage Licenses (Informacion Matrimonial) in the LDS Pilot site begin that year, but two months latter. So, I've hit a road block. However, there is some additional information that may help.
They had a daughter Beatriz de Medina de Avila b. 16 April 1687 married on March 11 1709 to Joseph de Reyes her cousin in 3rd degree, son of Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel de Esparza. The 'informacion matrimonial' refers to their relationship, they receive a 'dispensa' but no more details of how they are related. I've also in a road block with the Reyes-Esparza marriage, as I am unable to locate their marriage record.
There is also a Bernabe Medina, son of Christobal Medina and Maria Avila, who married Maria Theresa Romo Vibar on 12 April 1722 in Asientos, Aguascalientes.
Maybe someone in the group is related to these families and has additional information that will be greatly appreciated.

Jaime Alvarado

Christobal de Medina se caso con Maria de Avila (Abila) en Mayo 2 de 1666 en Aguascalientes. En su acta matrimonial no hay informacion de los padres y desgraciadamente las imagenes de informacion matrimonial en el portal Pilot de LDS no cominenzan sino hasta dos meses despues. Estoy atorado. Sin embargo, tengo informacion adicional que puede servir.
Tuvieron una hija, Beatris de Medin de Avila nacida 16 de Abril 1687 que se caso el 11 de Marzo de 1709 con Joseph de Reyes, su primo en tercer grado, hijo de Antonio de los Reyes e Isabel de Esparza. La informacion matrimonial hace referencia a la dispensa por su consanguinidad, pero no da mas informacion de su parentesco. De igual forma no tengo mas informacion de los ancestros de Antonio de Reyes e Isabel de Esparza, asi que estoy atorado ahi tambien.
Aparece tamien un Bernabe Medina, hijo de Crisotobal de Medina y Maria Avila que se caso con Maria Theresa Romo Vibar el 12 de Abril de 1722 en Asientos, Ags.
Quiza alguno miembro del grupo este relacionado ha estas familias y tenga informacion adicional de la que estare muy agradecido.

Jaime Alvarado

Ramos families from Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico

My grandmother's name was Paula/Pabla Ramos Mascorro.
She had 12 sisters. I only have the name of one sister, Longina/Lonjina Ramos Mascorro, christened on March 23 1863 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
Their parents names were Antonio Ramos and Jesusita/Jesue Mascorro.
Paula/Pabla married Guadalupe Martinez and her name became Paula/Pabla Ramos Martinez.
Anyone knowing or having any information and would like to share, please email me Delia Martinez-Fry at deljmar99@webtv.net.
Also, I have the book SAN GABRIEL VALLEY FAMILIES OF NUEVA GALICIA by Rosanne Gonzales-Hardy and would be willing to look up information on your ancestors and email it to you if you want.
Thank you for reading my post. Delia

Why do we do genealogy?

Hi Jonathan!
I wish I had started doing genealogy 30 years ago!!! :-) The reason I
do genealogy is probably a selfish one......I only have one
brother.....I come from a small family and always wanted a larger
family......my parents had other ideas!! :-)
I have always had this "yearning" to find the rest of my
family.......although I knew very little about them. It gives me great
satisfaction when I discover a bit of information about them. I
am absolutely overjoyed when I finally meet one of my distant cousins
through genealogy! It is the very best feeling (for me) in this world!
My grandfather (Julian Trevino) was born when his father was age 71
and his mother was age 41! He was the last of 17 children from two
families of my great-grandfather!!! To me it is a great miracle that I
even exist!!! :-) When my grandfather was born he was given to his
padrinos (also his cousins) with the understanding that they never
change his Trevino surname. He was raised with cousins named Valdez
and Villarreal but his name was always Trevino.
I do my genealogy on the Valdez/Villarreal line as if it were my
primary line because they raised my grandfather. I do my Trevino/
Villarreal research because that is my paternal line. My mother's
line is Soto/Barrios.
To me there is nothing more fascinating than doing my genealogy and
discovering my ancestors!
Josie Trevino Trevino
Houston, TX
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
> been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made
> me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And
> I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group
> members.
>
> Jonathan

____________________________________________________________
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The Lomellini

I'm reading a book titled Rivers of Gold by Hugh Thomas about the Rise and Fall of the Spanish Empire, from Columbus to Magellan.

Chapter 4 begins with the Genoese or Italian explorers and the influence on the Spanish crown. During the early 15th Century the Genoese merchants were dominant in Mediterranean commerce. The Italians were very influential to the Spanish crown as there also happened to be a sitting Genoese Pope, Pope Innocent VIII. whose ancestry was purported to be Genoese on both sides of his family.

Among the prominent Genoese families was the Lomellini family. According to this book, the Lomellini's controlled the Portuguese Gold trade and dominated the salt and silver commerce of Sardinia and Ceuta. They brought most of the Gold from Africa by caravan and their other specialty was the slave trade. Unlike the Portuguese who traded slaves and then aimed to convert them to Christianity, the Genoese traded gold and slaves in Crimea, Tunisia, Malaga, Granada and Chios and their aim was to make money, not to convert slaves.

The slaves were Circassians, Ethiopians, Slavs, Bosnians, Berbers and Black Africans, Canary Islanders, Muslims and Greeks and even Christians. They would trade men women and children and trade them on the open world markets. They were great seafaring families as were Columbus and his brothers.

Just thought I'd share a little history with those who have Lomeillini ancestors.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

Why I do genealogy

For Jonathan:

Why do I do genealogy? For my children and grandchildren, and for myself. Because I grew up with only one grandparent (the others had died long before I was born), there was always this troubling feeling of not knowing where we came from, and what made us what we are. The following two quotations explain this better than I can:

The first is from an old posting to the Puerto Rican board by Charles Batiz:

Family history is the study of the past
to find our place in the present,
to learn to hear "the voices in our blood,
the silent voices that run through our veins,
that make up who we are and where we stand
in a never-ending line of ancestors and descendants."

And the second is this poem I came across some years ago:
>From Cronica Mexicayotl, by Fernando Alvarado Tezozomoc

Never will it be lost,
never will it be forgotten,
that which they came to do,
that which they came to record
in their paintings:

Their renown,
their history,
their memory.

Thus in the future
never will it perish,
never will it be forgotten;
always we will treasure it.

We,
their children
their grandchildren,
brothers,
great-grandchildren,
great-great grandchildren,
descendants,
we who carry their blood
and their color:

We will tell it,
we will pass it on
to those who do not yet live,
to those who are to be born:
the children of the Mexicans,
the children of the Tenochcans....

SIXTEENTH CENTURY INDIGENOUS JALISCO

Found this in my notes and thought it might be of interest to the group:

Luis
=========================================================
SIXTEENTH CENTURY INDIGENOUS JALISCO
by John P. Schmal © 2001

The modern state of Jalisco consists of 31,152 square miles (80,684 square kilometers) located in the west central portion of the Mexican Republic. However, the Jalisco of colonial Mexico was not an individual political entity but part of the Spanish province of Nueva Galicia, which embraced some 180,000 kilometers ranging from the Pacific Ocean to the foothills of the Sierra Madre Occidental.

Besides the present-day state of Jalisco, Nueva Galicia also included the states of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Nayarit, and the northwest corner of San Luis Potosí. Across this broad range of territory, a wide array of indigenous groups lived before 1522 (the first year of contact with Spanish explorers). Domingo Lázaro de Arregui, in his "Descripción de la Nueva Galicia" - published in 1621 - wrote that 72 languages were spoken in the Spanish colonial province of Nueva Galicia.

As the Spaniards and their Indian allies from the south made their way into Nueva Galicia early in the Sixteenth Century, they encountered large numbers of nomadic Chichimeca Indians. Philip Wayne Powell - whose Soldiers, Indians, and Silver: North America's First Frontier War is the definitive source of information relating to the Chichimeca Indians - referred to Chichimeca as "an all-inclusive epithet" that had "a spiteful connotation." The Spaniards borrowed this designation from their Aztec allies and started to refer to the large stretch Chichimeca territory as La Gran Chichimeca.

Afredo Moreno González, in his recent book Santa Maria de Los Lagos, explains that the word Chichimeca has been subject to various interpretations over the years. Some of these suggestions included "linaje de perros" (of dog lineage), "perros altaneros" (arrogant dogs), or "chupadores de sangre" (blood-suckers). In any case, it was apparent that the Mexican Indians of the south did not hold their northern counterparts in high regard. However, in time, they learned to both fear and respect many of these Indians as brave and courageous defenders of their ancestral homelands.

Unfortunately, the widespread displacement that took place starting in 1529 prevents us from obtaining a clear picture of the indigenous Jalisco that existed in pre-Hispanic times. Four primary factors influenced the post-contact indigenous distribution of Jalisco and its evolution into a Spanish colonial province. The first factor was the 1529-30 campaign of Nuño Beltrán de Guzmán. In The North Frontier of New Spain, Peter Gerhard wrote that "Guzmán, with a large force of Spaniards, Mexican allies, and Tarascan slaves, went through here in a rapid and brutal campaign lasting from February to June 1530… Guzmán's strategy was to terrorize the natives with often unprovoked killing, torture, and enslavement."

Once Guzmán had consolidated his conquests, he ordered all of the conquered Indians of Jalisco to be distributed among Spanish encomiendas. The individual receiving the encomienda, known as the encomendero, received free labor and tribute from the Indians, in return for which the subjects were commended to the encomendero's care. As might be expected, such institutions were prone to misuse and, as a result, many Indians were reduced to slave labor and - all too often - death. Although Guzmán was arrested and imprisoned in 1536, his reign of terror had set into motion institutions that led to the widespread displacement of the indigenous people of Jalisco.

The second factor was the Mixtón Rebellion of 1541-1542. This indigenous uprising was a desperate attempt by the Cazcanes Indians to drive the Spaniards out of Nueva Galicia. In response to the desperate situation, Viceroy Mendoza assembled a force of 450 Spaniards and some 30,000 Aztec and Tlaxcalan supporting troops. In a series of short sieges and assaults, Mendoza gradually suffocated the uprising. The aftermath of this defeat, according to Peter Gerhard, led to thousands of deaths. In addition, he writes, "thousands were driven off in chains to the mines, and many of the survivors (mostly women and children) were transported from their homelands to work on Spanish farms and haciendas."

The third factor influencing Jalisco's evolution was the complex set of relationships that the Spaniards enjoyed with their Indian allies. As the frontier moved outward from the center, the military would seek to form alliances with friendly Indian groups. Then, in 1550, the Chichimeca War had began. This guerrilla war, which continued until the last decade of the century, was primarily fought by Chichimeca Indians defending their lands in Zacatecas, Guanajuato, Aguascalientes, and northern Jalisco.

The Chichimeca conflict forced the Spaniards to rely heavily upon their Indian allies. The result of this dependence upon indigenous allies as soldados (soldiers) and pobladores (settlers) led to enormous and wide-ranging migration and resettlement patterns that would transform the geographic nature of the indigenous peoples of Nueva Galicia. In describing this phenomenon, Mr. Powell noted that the "Indians formed the bulk of the fighting forces against the Chichimeca warriors… As fighters, as burden bearers, as interpreters, as scouts, as emissaries, the pacified natives of New Spain played significant and often indispensable roles in subjugating and civilizing the Chichimeca country."

By the middle of the Sixteenth Century, the Tarascans, Aztecs, Cholultecans, Otomíes, Tlaxcalans, and the Cazcanes had all joined forces with the Spanish military. By the time the Chichimeca War had begun, the Tarascans and Otomíes, in particular, had already developed "considerable experience in warfare alongside the Spaniards." As a result, explains Mr. Powell, "they were the first important auxiliaries employed for entradas against the Chichimecas."

The employment of Tarascans, Mexicans, and Tlaxcalans for the purpose of "defensive colonization" also encouraged a gradual assimilation of the Chichimecas. In the 1590s Náhuatl-speaking colonists from Tlaxcala and the Valley of Mexico settled in some parts of Jalisco to serve, as Mr. Gerhard writes, "as a frontier militia and a civilizing influence." As the Indians of Jalisco made peace and settled down to work for Spanish employers, they were absorbed into the more dominant Indian groups that had come from the south. By the early Seventeenth Century, writes Mr. Powell, most of the Chichimeca Indians had disappeared as distinguishable cultural entities.

The fourth cause of depopulation and displacement of the Jalisco Indians was contagious disease. The physical isolation of the Indians in the Americas is the primary reason for which disease caused such havoc with the Native American populations. This physical isolation resulted in a natural quarantine from the rest of the planet and from a wide assortment of communicable diseases. When smallpox first ravaged through Mexico in 1520, no Indian had immunity to the disease.

During the first century of the conquest, the Mexican Indians suffered through 19 major epidemics. They were exposed to smallpox, chicken pox, diphtheria, influenza, scarlet fever, measles, typhoid, mumps, influenza, and cocoliztli (a hemorrhagic disease). Peter Gerhard has estimated the total native population of Nueva Galicia in 1520 at 855,000 persons. However, in the next two decades, the populous coastal region north of Banderas Bay witnessed the greatest population decline. "The unusually brutal conquest," writes Mr. Gerhard, "was swiftly followed by famine, further violence and dislocation, and epidemic disease."

By the late 1530s, the population of the Pacific coastal plain and foothills from Acaponeta to Puficación had declined by more than half. Subsequently, Indians from the highland areas were transported to work in the cacao plantations. When their numbers declined, the Spaniards turned to African slaves. By 1560, Mr. Gerhard wrote, the 320,000 indigenous people who occupied the entire tierra caliente in 1520 had dropped to a mere 20,000. A plague in 1545-1548 is believed to have killed off more than half of the surviving Indians of the highland regions. By 1550, it is believed that there were an estimated 220,000 Indians in all of Nueva Galicia.

The diversity of Jalisco's early indigenous population can be understood more clearly by exploring individual tribes or regions of the state. The following paragraphs are designed to provide the reader with some basic knowledge of several of the indigenous groups of Jalisco:

The Cazcanes. The Cazcanes (Caxcanes) lived in the northern section of the state. They were a partly nomadic people, whose principal religious and population centers were at Teul, Tlaltenango, Juchipila, and Teocaltiche. According to Mr. Powell, they were "the heart and the center of the Indian rebellion in 1541 and 1542." After the Mixtón Rebellion, the Cazcanes became allies of the Spaniards. For this reason, they suffered attacks by the Zacatecas and Guachichiles during the Chichimeca War.

Cocas. When the Spaniards first entered this area, the Coca Indians, guided by their leader Tzitlali, moved away to a small valley surrounded by high mountains, a place they named "Cocolan." Because the Cocas were peaceful people, the Spaniards, for the most part, left them alone. José Ramírez Flores, the author of Lenguas Indígenas de Jalisco, lists Cuyutlán, San Marcos, Tlajomulco, Toluquilla and Poncitlán as towns in which the Coca language was spoken.

Cuytecos. The Cuyutecos Indians, inhabiting the west central region around Atenquillo, Mascota, Talpa, Tecolotlán and Mixtlán, spoke a Nahua language. It is believed the Cuyuteco language may have been a late introduction into Jalisco.

Guachichiles. The Guachichiles, of all the Chichimeca Indians, occupied the most extensive territory. Considered both warlike and brave, the Guachichiles roamed through a large section of the present-day state of Zacatecas. The name of " Guachichile " that the Mexicans gave them meant "heads painted of red," a reference to the red dye that they used to pain their bodies, faces and hair. Although the main home of the Guachichile Indians lay in Zacatecas, they had a small representation in the Los Altos area of Jalisco. Their language was spoken at Tepatitlán and Arandas.

Huichol. The Huichol Indians of northwestern Jalisco and Nayarit lived in very isolated regions. This isolation has served them well for their aboriginal culture has survived with relatively few major modifications since the period of first contact with Western culture.

Even today, the Huichol Indians of Jalisco and Nayarit currently inhabit an isolated region of the Sierra Madre Occidental. Their language was spoken in the northern stretches of the Three-Fingers Region of Northern Jalisco, in particular Huejuquilla, Tuxpan and Colotlán.

Otomíes. The Otomíes were a Chichimeca nation primarily occupying Queretaro and Jilotepec. However, early on, the Otomíes allied themselves with the Spaniards and Mexica Indians. As a result, writes Mr. Powell, Otomí settlers were "issued a grant of privileges" and were "supplied with tools for breaking land." For their allegiance, they were exempted from tribute and given a certain amount of autonomy in their towns. During the 1550s, Luis de Velasco (the second Viceroy of Nueva España) used Otomí militia against the Chichimecas. The strategic placement of Otomí settlements in Nueva Galicia made their language dominant near Zapotitlán, Juchitlán, Autlán, and other towns near Jalisco's southern border with Colima.

Tecuexes. The Tecuexe Indians inhabited the Los Altos region around Jalostotitlan, Tepatitilan, Yahualica, Juchitlán, and Tonalán.

Tepehuanes. The Tepehuanes Indians are usually associated with Durango and with their massive revolt from 1616 to 1619. However, the Tepehuanes language was associated with several towns in the "Three-Fingers" region of northern Jalisco, most notably Tepec and Chimaltitlán.

The indigenous nations of Sixteenth Century Jalisco experienced such enormous upheaval in the space of mere decades that it has been difficult for historians to reconstruct the original homes of some native groups. Peter Gerhard, in The Northern Frontier of New Spain, has done a spectacular job of exploring the specific history of each colonial jurisdiction. Anyone who studies Mr. Gerhard's work comes to realize that each jurisdiction, and each community within each jurisdiction, has experienced a unique set of circumstances that set it apart from all other jurisdictions. A brief discussion of some of the individual districts of Jalisco follows:

Tequila (North central Jalisco). The indigenous name for this community is believed to have been Tecuallan (which, over time, evolved to its present form). The inhabitants of this area were Tecuexe farmers, most of who lived in the Barranca. North of the Río Grande were the Huicholes, who were the traditional enemies of the Tecuexes. Although Guzmán and his forces passed through this area in 1530, the natives of this area offered stiff resistance to Spanish incursions into their lands. The Huicholes north of the Río Grande raided the Tecuexes settlements in the south before 1550. According to Gerhard, "the Indians [of this jurisdiction] remained hostile and uncontrolled until after the Chichimec war when an Augustinian friar began their conversion."

Lagos de Moreno (Northeastern Los Altos). The author Alfredo Moreno González tells us that the Native American village occupying this area was Pechititán. According to Mr. Gerhard, "most if not all of the region was occupied at contact by Chichimec hunters-gatherers, probably Guachichiles, with a sprinkling of Guamares in the east." It is also believed that Tecuexes occupied the region southwest of Lagos. When Pedro Almíndez Chirinos traveled through here in March 1530 with a force of fifty Spaniards and 500 Tarascan and Tlaxcalan allies, the inhabitants gave him a peaceful reception.

Jalostotitlán (Northern Los Altos). This town was called a parish of Tecuexes.

San Juan de Los Lagos and Encarnación de Díaz (Northern Los Altos). The indigenous people of these districts were called "Chichimecas blancos" because of the limestone pigments they used to color their bodies and faces. The indigenous name for San Juan was Mezquititlán.

La Tabla de los Mendozas

I made a table about the Mendoza family showing how they married into several prominant spanish families and the many surnames they created. I think it could help us look at the big picture. I've never knew how important this family was. Just today, i found 4 mor Mendoza lines conncecting back to Toribio and Isabel, that brings me to a total of 14 and I have about 3 more that Im trying my best to connect but no luck. This table hopefully helps someone in the group. This shows the many "Mendoza surnames" that were created all from the original Hurtado de Mendoza. Also, I included what I believe are Toribio and Isabel's parents. I have some research and work done. Toribio grandmother "was" according to me Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza the daughter of the Duke Mendoza which would make Toribio and Isabel second cousins. Is it by chance that their daughters have the same names as Toribio's grnadmothers. Catalina, Isabel, Juana, Anna and also their grandchildren' The names keep repeating in the family. I know that Toribio was a relative to the Ramírez de Arellano of Los Altos and to Cortes' wife. I think the Hernández de Arellano was created by Thoribios "parents" (the one i believe to be) His father is the son of the Duke of Hijar and his mother is the Count of Aguilar (Los Arellanos) Hence Hernández de Arellano. I have better evidence that could support it. This is taken from Los Altos system of two important families merging names. If it's not them I know it someone in the family I found in the Arellanos and Hijars; this is pretty darn close. It should be them. The file is in my file folder. Daniel Méndez del Camino

Nuestros Ranchos Submission REDUX

Okay folks. Sorry about the sloppy uploads. Joseph was kind enough to show me how exactly to upload my files to my folder only. I also took this opportunity to put together the rest of my great grandmothers pedigree trees. Please look through them and see if we can make a connection.

GALARZA LOPEZ Ma de Jesus.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2905

GARCIA DE LEON Ma Macedonia.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2906

MALDONADO CHAVEZ Matilde.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2907

PEDROZA ROMO Timotea Pedgree.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2908

ALBA CUEVA Elena.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2909

MOCTEZUMA Petrolina Pedigree.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2910

I have other loose trees in my database that I will also be posting soon. They include my surname along with other surnames that appear above. I have not been able to connect to them but hopefully they might help someone else.

ESPANOL: Favor de bajar y revicar estos archivos para ver si podemos acer una conexcion de familia. Tambien tengo otros troncos familiares sueltos con mi apellido y con diferentes apellidos que no e podido conectar a mi tronco familiar. Espero que esta informacion le pueda servir a alguien mas.

saludos,
Luis
dexaime@excite.com

Gracias \ Some

Rick,
Being from the "norte", where relatives have confirmed our Jewish legacy via
word of mouth, and verified later by DNA - I am very interested in how the
Jewish legacy might have continued in Los Altos, however guised.

Can you elaborate? I want to see if there is a connection of traditions to
those in the "norte" (Nuevo Leon/Coahuila).

Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir…
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

Digest v. Individual Emails

Lately there has been a lot of activity on the list and when that
happens some start thinking of ways to minimize the amount of emails
received into their inbox. Well there are two options to consider -

going to:

1) Digest

or

2) No Mail

The digest version is getting a single email per day with all of that
days emails within one large email. To switch from individual email to
digest just log in and to you "my account" and and "edit" and "my
mailing lists" and switch to digest from there.

or if you really don't want to get any email at all but don't want to
unsubscribe from the group then you can go to "no mail" and just read
the discussions online via the website. You would do the same as for
digest except pick the "no mail" option instead.

If anyone has any trouble with this please contact me.

thanks,

joseph

ps: if anyone does decide to go to the digest version please take care
that you never reply to a digest version without doing two things:

1) change the subject line of your email to properly reflect the content
of your message
2) cutting out everything except the exact content to which you are replying

=====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Second Hello \ Introduction

Hi Everyone, I didn't see my first two posts here, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I did get a reply ( Gracias Jorge !) but have not seen my posts show up here...forgive me, I'm a rookie. First I'd like to thank Joseph for allowing me to join the site. My name is Robert Gonzalez, my area of research is Los Altos de Jalisco, specifically, Tepatitlan and "La Villa" San Jose De Basarte. My father and grandfather were born in La Villa \ SJB. My Great Grandfather, Gregorio Gonzalez is buried beneath the alter of the small church\ capilla there. I also have records of my great,great grandfather and some other family members but have hit a wall. Ultimatley I'd like to take my research all the way back to Spain to find out where my family line started. Names I'd like to research are Gonzalez, Casillas and Alonso. It seems that for at least two generations, the Gonzalez line married into the Casillas line. Any info on San Jose de Basarte would be greatly appreciated, I do have some minor info in regards to the history of La Villa but not enough to satisfy my curiosity. Thank you all, I look forward to sharing info with all of you, Robert Gonzalez ~

Datos por la Familia Felix

Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
                                                |
                            Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila
                                                |
                            Bartolome Felix Arellano/Catarina Chaves Carrillo
                                                |
                            Juan Pedro Felix Arellano/Ysabel Llanos y Valdez
                                                |
                            Marcelino Felix Tinajero/Juana Acevedo
                                                |
                            Felipe Tinajero Felix/Gregoria Salasar-Miranda     
                                                |
                            Jose Hilario Felix b. 07 Nov 1812 Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
Se casa en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico, 10 Jan 1835, con /Maria Teodora Flores
                                                |
                            Maria Rafaela Tinajero-Flores, b. 01 Nov 1843, Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico. Ella se casa con Pedro Olague 21 Mar 1863 en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
                                                |
                            Francisco Olague-Felix, b. 21 Sep 1872, en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico

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Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 4:07:08 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4

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DAILY DIGEST
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: FW: Villa de Jerez/Nicolas Felix (Emilie Garcia)
  2. Totatiche (Cortes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:00:54 -0800
From: "Emilie Garcia"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez/Nicolas Felix
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="Windows-1252"

Hola, Jose Felix,

Si, mi antepasado es Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
                                                |
                            Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila
                                                |
                            Bartolome Felix Arellano/Catarina Chaves Carrillo
                                                |
                            Juan Pedro Felix Arellano/Ysabel Llanos y Valdez
                                                |
                            Marcelino Felix Tinajero/Juana Acevedo
                                                |
                            Felipe Tinajero Felix/Gregoria Salasar      (cambiaron nombre a Tinajero)
                                                |
                            Jose Hilario Tinajero/Maria Teodora Flores
                                                |
                            Maria Rafaela Tinajero/Pedro Olague
                                                |
                            Francisco Olague/Gorgonia Garcia
                                                |
                            Guadalupe Olague/Luisa Marquez
                                                |
                              Emilie Marquez Olague de Garcia
                       
--- Original Message -----
  From: JOSE FELIX
  To: research@ nuestros ranchos.com
  Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez

  Hola Emelie:
  Tienes mucha razon acabo de leer la historia de Jerez y si anteriormente le nombraban  VILLA DE JEREZ a la actual ciudad de Jerez de Garcia Salinas.
  Con relacion a que tu tambien eres desendiente de Nicolas Felix ? el que pudo haber nacido en 1630 a 1640 .tu cuentas con esa informacion? es una gran alegria saber que ya, habemos barios que compartimos el mismo ancestro .
  Muy pronto estare actualizando mi arbol geneologico en esta pagina. Y gracias a la ayuda de varios miembros .Empese hace aproximadamente un a?o con tan solo algunos 15 y actualmente cuento con 350 .
  Saludos
  Jose Luis Felix
  > From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:04:30 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez> > Jose Felix:> > I too am descended from Nicolas Felix. My father was born in Jerez, Zacatecas in 1903. The complete name of the town now is Jerez de Garcia Salinas, and it is not too far from Nochistlan where the Felix and Peraltas lived. I think they used to call it La Villa de Jerez in birth records long time ago. > > Emilie Garcia> Port Orchard, WA> > > -----

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu,  5 Feb 2009 12:24:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Cortes
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Totatiche
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Maria Cortes

Where is Totatiche?  This file is hard to read.

------------------------------

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Ricci,Just trying to clarify what you wrote. Ladino was a form of the Spanish language spoken near San Miguel? And what are "Jewish conversos?" Where there actually synagogues around there?Thanks,Luis-----Original Message-----From: "Ricci, Richard" [rricci@lausd.net]Date: 02/20/2009 03:17 PMTo: research@nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my familyThere are stories that the spanish being spoken near valle de Gpe, pegueros and san miguel was ladino and was spoken because of jewish converso ancestors. they used to sing in the countryside this language that was different from the spanish spoken in mexico. Some of my uncles and aunts used to speak about this........ ________________________________ From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of El Peregrino Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 9:57 AM To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my family Hi Daniel ! Thank you for the warm welcome ! I have not posted any files as of yet, I'm still a rookie at all this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My father and grandmother did tell me that the Gonzalez \ Casillas line married into each other a couple of times !, So I know that saying about Altenos is true ! Just some background, my Grandfather and his brothers moved up to Miami , Arizona to work in the mines. He contracted miners lung \ black lung and when he realized it was going to kill him, he went back to his birthplace, La Villa \ San Jose de Basarte. My father and my uncle Santiago were born there. My grandfather passed when my father was only two years old or so, he never knew him My grandmother, who was originally from Aguascalientes, moved the family back to Arizona, first Jerome, then to Bisbee..where I grew up. According to my grandmother, my grandfather's family had a large estate that the family shared, she sold off her portion to some of the fami ly members that had stayed behind. My grandmother eventually remarried to a man who did not care for my father and his brothers and he forbade my grandmother to ever talk about their family. For many years my dad had no info as to his roots, very little about it was ever discussed. When my abuelas husband died, she could finally talk to her sons about their family history, but they were grown men by that time. She used to tell me stories about the family and my grandfather and she hid away photos that I'm am blessed to have now. My grandfather and his brothers were tall, 6ft plus and all except my abuelo had blond hair and blue eyes. She told me that when my grandfather would speak to his father, they spoke a version of spanish that she has a hard time following..I've always wondered if it was Gallego or Catalan...maybe even Basque. So many other things she would tell me that I would like answers to, not so much for me, but for my father. My great grandfather , Gregorio Gonz alez Casillas is buried in the small church or capilla in SJdB, quite an honor I'm told, I'd like to know why this type of respect was given to my family, who exactly they were ? I'd better give it a rest now ! I still have much more info to share, sorry to ramble on. Thanks again Daniel, I look forward to speaking with you more in the future ! Robert ~ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List To post, send email to: research(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

More generations

Thanks to Maria Cortez and a volunteer at my local FHC, I now am familiar
with the value of batch numbers. I didn't locate anything on Diego Ruiz and
Catharina Perez yet, but, after too many hours online, I have probably
located a number of ggs I didn't have. (I never feel I know for sure until
I'm looking at the church record on film.) I'm submitting them here with
the hope that someone has them already researched:

my 3ggmo: Maria Marta Rodriguez, bap 26 Oct 1814, Mexticacan, Jal. Pts.
Jose Agustin Rodriguez and Maria Dolores de Jaure, md 30
Maria md Candido Delgadillo 10 Feb 1836 in Yahualica, Jal.

Mari de la pena losa

Catalina DE ARENAS Y MARIN DE PENALOSA is my 8x great-grandmother. I would be great if we could compare and share information. I would also be able to update the pedigree tree that I uploaded to my folder.Luis JAIMEdexaime@excite.com-----Original Message-----From: "R. A. Ricci" [rricci@lausd.net]Date: 02/19/2009 02:29 AMTo: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mari de la pena losa I need to check my notes but I believe that I may have information on you C arenas Marin de la pena losa. She is may ancestor. I believe i have her parents and grandparents. My wife is calling so i can't look it up for you right now. I also have dates and locations. Tell me what the c stands for. R.A.Ricci -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List To post, send email to: research(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

MOCTEZUMA, Petronila

I have just finished posting my pedigree tree from my bisabuela Ma. DELGADO to Petronila MOCTEZUMA. I've seen that Petronila has already been convered on this site. However, I wanted to know what the final consensus was on her lineage to Moctezuma. And, does anyone have that data? The file can be found at
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2903

Other names in her tree are TISCARENO RUIS ESPARZA ESPINOSA MARQUEZ MOLINA NAVARRO DIAZ DELGADO. Can anyone expand on the data I have on those names that file? Thanks in advance for any help.

Luis JAIME

Llanos de Valdes

Salvador Cabral Valdes sent me the following information for those that
were asking about the Llanos de Valdes:

Registro modificado de -Pedro de Llanos de Valdes-1382

Primera generación

1. -Pedro de Llanos de Valdes-1382.

-Pedro se casó (MRIN:587) -Ines Osorio Fernandez Y Garcia-1383.

Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:

+ 2 M i. -Juan de Llanos Y Valdes-1380.

Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Hello to all!

Do any of you have info on Gertrudis Diaz de Leon? She was married to Juan Alvarez Tostado, son of Captian Juan Alvarez Tostado and Isabel Ramirez de Mendoza. Gertrudis is my 7th ggmother.

Thanks!

------------------------------------------

Saludos a todos!

Alguien de ustedes tiene alguna informacion de Gertrudis Diaz de Leon? Ella estuvo casada con Juan Alvarez Tostado, hijo del Capitan Juan Alvarez Tostado e Isabel Ramirez de Mendoza. Ella es mi 7a bisabuela.

Gracias!

What are the Geographical areas of your Zacatecas research?

Just curious as to where, geographically speaking, your Zacatecas research is located/focused. Did your families move around frequently - i.e., were they in one place for more or less than 5 or 10 years, or for generations? My father was born (1912) at Hacienda del Astillero, SW of Valparaiso, off the Valparaiso-Huejucar Highway (Mex Hwy 44). His father was born at Hacienda de Santa Monica, Sain Alto (1879), his mother at Rancho San Mateo (1887; N of Valparaiso). There is a Santa Monica north of Sain Alto, but it looks pretty desolate on the Google map of the area.
So - is anyone researching the Sain Alto area, or Sombrerete, or Fresnillo? Have you visited any of these places? I visited Astillero in 1996.

Thanks,
Natalie Castro Coleman
researching: GARCIA, DUENAS, CASTRO, MARTINEZ, and others

Hello to all

My name is Charles Flores and I am a new member. I am eager to expand my
research here. My focus area is Juchipila, and Nochistlan, Zac. The surnames
are Flores, Rincon, Banuelos, Godina, Ascencio, Ruiz, Figueroa, and Quezada.
Thanks for allowing me to work within this group.
Lo Mejor,
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

My Ornelas Ancestry

Below is my Ornelas line and ancestry.

1.Daniel Mendez del Camino b. 1992 in San Jose, California, United States
2.Jose Gabriel Mendez Cortez b. 1956 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
3.Martin Mendez Serrano b. 1917 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
4.Lucia Serrano Rubio b. 1889 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
5.Juan Jose Serrano Gutierrez b. 1853 in Zapotiltic, Jalisco, Mexico
6.Jose Jesus Francisco Serrano de Leon b. 1825 in Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, Mexico
7.Alexandro de Cerrano y de Ornelas b. 1799 in Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, Mexico
8.Maria Juana Rafaela Alvina de Hornelas y Garcia b. 1771 in Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, Mexico
9.Manuel Antonio de Hornelas y Basques de Lara b. 1737 San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
10.Gregorio de Hornellas y de la Crus b. 1713 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
11.Juan de Dios de Hornellas y Sanches b. 1669 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
12.Andres de Ornellas y de Orosco b. 1636 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
13.Alvaro Albares de Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendosa b. 1598 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
14.Alvaro Albares de Ornellas (mother is uknown) b. 1561 in Mexico City, D.F., Mexico
15.Alvaro Albares de Ornellas, 11th Count of Dornelas (mother is uknown) b. 1530/1532 (disputed) in Mexico City, D.F., Mexico
16.Alvaro Albares de Ornelas y Fernandes de Abreu, 10th Count of Dornelas b. 1496 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
17.Alvaro Albares de Ornelas y Fernandes de Saavedra, 9th Count of Dornelas b. 1456 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
Henceforth the one who started this LONG chain of Alvaro Albares de Ornelas!
18.Alvaro Lopes de Ornelas y de Ayala, 8th Count of Dornelas b. 1424 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
19.Lope Esteves de Ornelas y de Portugal , 7th Count of Dornelas b. 1384 in Lisbon, Lisbon, Portugal (His mother was Dona Estefania, Princess of Portugal. Illegitimate Daughter of Pedro I, King of Portugal
20. Pedro Anes de Ornelas, 6th Count of Dornelas b. 1354 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
21. Martim Joaes de Ornelas, 5th Count of Dornelas b. 1324 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
22. Joao Joaes de Ornelas y, Pires de Cardoso, 4th Count of Dornelas b. 1294 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
23. Joao Pires de Ornelas y Anes de Freitas, 3rd Count of Dornelas b. 1264 in Dornelas, Madeira, Portugal
24. Pedro Fernandes de Ornelas, 2nd Count of Dornelas b. 1234 in Madeira, Madeira, Portugal
25. Fernando Fernandes y Anes de Ornelas, 1st Count of Dornelas b. 1204 in Veloso, Leon, Spain
26. Juan Fernandes de Veloso, 7th Count of Veloso b. 1174 in Veloso, Leon, Spain
27. Rui Fernandes de Veloso y de Aragon, 6th Count of Veloso b. 1144 in Aragon, Aragon, Spain
(His mother was Dona Ximena de Aragon, Princess of Aragon, illegitimate daughter of Alfonso I, King of Aragon.)
28. Fernando Rodrigues de Veloso, 5th Count of Veloso b. 1114 in Velso, Veloso, Spain
29. Rodrigo Fernandes de Veloso y de Vella, 4th Count of Veloso b. 1084 in Veloso, Veloso, Spain
30. Fernando Rodrigues de Veloso y de Francia, 3rd Count of Veloso b. 1054 in Paris, Paris, France
(His mother was Alembert Capet, Princess of France, daughter Henry I Capet, King of France)
31. Rodrigo Sanches de Veloso y de Frolas, 2nd Count of Veloso b. 1024 in Leon, Leon, Spain
32. Sancho Ramires de Leon y Gomes de Saldana, 1st Count of Veloso and Prince of Leon b. 984 in Leon, Leon, Spain
33. Ramiro III Sanches de Leon, King of Leon b. 961 in Leon, Leon, Spain

Here are the sources there also some websites but need to go back and write them down.
From: Dornelas, Afonso; Dornelas, origem Deste apelido (there is a exemplary in Funchal Library)
The Transalation from Portegues: The Origin of the Ornelas Surname, Im not sure where to buy it, would be a good book to have. Well thats it for now because the genealogy never ends it goes all the way back to the time of the Roman Empire and Jesus Christ so yeah. I think its really fun when you connect into a royal family. I have checked and your husband and I connect with almost every royal European family today, I think its really cool to know this. You may also be wondering Alvaro de Ornelas the one born in 1530-1532 did infact plea the King of Portugal to keep his fathers title in the 1560's when his father died. So what does that mean? Not only did that title came to Mexico it stayed there. The big question is who is the Heir to that title? Someone in Mexico right now is the rightful heir to the County of Dornelas. No one knows what happened to it, Ive been researching but have not found anything for the title after 1611 when Alvaro died. And there is no record of Alvaro the one born in 1530 to have children in Portugal. He only had to return in order to officially become Count of Dornelas but quickly returned to Jalisco. so the title did in fact say Mexico. Not like the Moctezuma line in which some returned to Spain. The Ornelas stayed in Jalisco. And Emilie I have some tips for you. I think youll need to extend your Ornelas line back to 1690-1710 because thats when I have a Benito Ornelas and I think your Benito is the ancestor of you Benito so I hope your husband and I can connect in the future. -Daniel Mendez del Camino

Rubio Coat of Arms Picture

A person outside the group would like any comments on this picture:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17482 If anyone has any a comment to
share I'll send her your message.

Una persona afuera del grupo necesita informacion de este foto:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17482. Si tienes informacion de esto
le voy a mandar su mensaje

joseph

=====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Cuquio Records

Any ideas on how to access church records that aren't posted on
familysearch? I need matrimonial records for Cuquio, Jalisco that predate
1741, which is the earliest posted. I emailed the archdiocese and they
referred me back to Cuquio. There are baptisms posted prior to 1741.

I believe my ancestors, Diego Ruiz and Catarina Perez, were married there
in the early 1730s. I have found them listed as padrinos there in 1736 and
several children born there, starting in 1737. Unfortunately, so far, no
grandparents nor origens are noted. There are not a lot of Ruizes at this
period, so I don't think there is much of an extended family based there
(there are lots later on), so I'm guessing that within a generation back
they will elsewhere. Diego died between Dec 1785 and Dec 1789. Catarina
died after Dec 1789. Their children I've found so far are: Maria Luisa,
24 Aug 1737, Joseph Anastacio c1739, Joseph Joachin Maria and Joseph Miguel
Maria, 23 Nov 1745, Manuela 1749, Maria de la Candelaria, 24 Jul 1760, and
Manuel.

Any ideas or leads would be much appreciated.

Rocha Marriage

I was looking through a film so far today and it included a marriage of a Rocha (havent had a chance to transcribe it) in 1770. I almost skipped it but I remember
that many members have de la Rocha lines and thought it would be good to scan it. Ill add it to the Ranchos folder later this week for anyone who just wants a copy or needs it. -Daniel M. Camino