Determining age of an ancestor

Hello everybody! I have a question regarding which documents are more important to determine the age of an ancestor.

My second great-grandmother, Ramona Pulido González, was baptised on may 13th 1887. In her marriage record, in 1901, they say she is 15 years old, when she was, according to the baptism record, just days from turning 14. This could've been an honest, slight mistake.

However, things get trickier. When my great grandfather was born in 1906, the civil record says she was 26 years old, when she was really 19, and her death record states that she died at 65 in 1950.

My (perhaps novelistic) guess is that since her husband was considerably older (he was 44 at the time of the wedding), they were stretching the numbers (specially the civil registration) so that she wouldn't appear underage with the law (although this was fairly common in these towns and this years). I think I should trust most the baptism record, because it wouldn't make sense trying to explain a seven year old being baptised and passing for a newborn (since the baptism record clearly says "born yesterday"). But I was wondering if I might be overlooking something, or if the other records would be better to determine age.

Also, I don't think there is a chance that I am confusing people; her name matches, as well as the town she was born in (which is very very small and wouldn't leave chance to so many coincidences), her husband's name and parents as well as her own parents, and my great grandafthers birthday as told by my mom, who knew him.

Thanks in advance!! :)

Spanish Law 1770 in Mexico

Spanish Law or Custom 1770
What was the Spanish law or custom about 1770 in Durango, Durango surrounding this event? Pablo Lucio Padilla married Maria Gertrudis Godoy. He was a free mulato, she a mulata slave belonging to someone else. Did Pablo have to buy her? Did she remain the slave of the 3rd party? In giving consent for the marriage would her freedom also have been included without comment in the church record? Would their children be free?, or slaves of the 3rd party owner?
Thanks. Ed Nissen Padilla

Victoria Ballin

Does anyone have any info on Victoria Vallin/Ballin she married Juan Sanchez Salgado on 25 Oct 1726 unfortunately their marriage record did not provide me with their parents.So if anyone has any info or can help please feel free to do so.

Looking for origins of Rafael Duran

Hola parientes, I am currently stuck. I am looking for any baptismal records for Rafael Duran. Rafael is my 4th great-grandfather. I found his matrimonial record of his marriage to Dolores Aguilera on the 23rd of February 1800: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY3Q-FJS?i=264&cc=1502…

I'm stuck because the record states "padres no conocidos" so his parents are not listed. With Dolores he goes on to have many children born in Calvillo, Aguascalientes. Does anyone have any potential leads I can follow? My hunch is he was born some time around 1775-1777. I've search in Zacatecas, Aguascalientes and Jalisco. The closest I've found is Josef Rafael Duran baptized in Teocaltiche, Jalisco in 1777: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR6G-6?i=368&cc=1874591

Thank you,

Ernesto Duran

AGUASCALIENTES: Francisco Gutierrez Duron, Elena de Alvarado, Beatriz Rodriguez de la Vera

Hola prim@s,

I hope you and your loved ones are all safe and well during these trying times!

“Gutierrez Duron” was a compound surname first appearing in Aguascalientes during the latter half of the 17th Century. While earlier generations also alternated using the sole “Gutierrez” or “Duron,” later generations would drop “Gutierrez,” using only “Duron.” Most of those using this surname combination can be traced back to one of two families: that of Juan Gutierrez Duron cc Teresa del Castillo, and that of Francisco Gutierrez Duron, who married twice - first, to Elena de Alvarado, and then to Beatriz Rodriguez de la Vera. There was also a Maria Gutierrez Duron, who married Joseph Guerra, and who was a contemporary of the other two, though her descendants never used the Gutierrez Duron surname. As far as I can tell, there was no contact between these three families, so I don’t know if they were related.
Since I descend from Francisco Gutierrez Duron, I thought I’d start a thread on him and and his two wives, for those of us who descend from them to share what we have. Their children and descendants have been touched upon in previous NR threads:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23281
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23498
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23766

I’ll first include what I have on the family groups of Francisco Duron’s two marriages, followed by my notes on his and his two wive’s possible origins. I’ll then include my notes on the other families who used this surname, who might or might not be related.

I hope you find this useful, and if any of you can add or amend anything, please do. By the way, be prepared for a long read - being SiP for almost 2 months, I’ve had a lot of free time on my hands!

Saludos y un fuerte abrazo para todos (desde lejos, claro!),
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Francisco Gutierrez Duron: Marriages & Issue

Francisco Gutierrez Duron and Elena de Alvarado married around 1677. Elena de Alvarado died and was buried 8 Sep 1687, in Aguascalientes. Their last son, Joseph, was baptized almost 2 months after her burial, so she likely died during childbirth.

The children of Francisco Gutierrez Duron and Elena de Alvarado are:

1. Ana Gutierrez Duron, m. Nicolas Gutierrez, 20 Feb 1693, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
2. Maria Duron, b. 17 Nov 1680, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Esteban de Ulloa, 16 Jan 1698, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
3. Francisco Duron, b. 30 Mar 1683, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
4. Juan Gutierrez Duron, b. 16 Jul 1684, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Gertrudis de Leyba. Possibly the same who married Juana Tinoco, 04 Jan 1705, Aguascalientes.
5. Dionicia aka Leonicia Duron Gutierrez, b. 03 Mar 1686, Asuncion de Maria, Ags. m1. Geronimo Roman, m2. Andres Diaz de Leon, 05 May 1728, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
6. Joseph Duron, b. 25 Nov 1687, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.

Francisco Gutierrez Duron married his second wife, Beatriz Rodriguez de la Vera, on 24 Dec 1688, in Aguascalientes. She was of parents unknown. Francisco Gutierrez Duron died and was buried 6 Feb 1729, in Aguascalientes. Beatriz Rodriguez would pass on 5 Jun 1731, also in Aguascalientes.

The children of Francisco Gutierrez Duron and Beatriz Rodriguez de la Vera are:

1. Juana Duron, b. 26 Oct 1689, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Santiago Gonzalez, 08 Jan 1710, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
2. Jose Manuel Duron aka Ruiz Colmenero, b. 07 Jan 1691, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m1. Maria Apolonia Fernandez de Sosa, 12 Oct 1713; m2. Gertrudis Diaz de Lomas, 09 Jul 1739; m3. Juana Nieto Corona, 04 Dec 1747, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
3. Gertrudis Gutierrez Duron, b. 24 Apr 1693, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
4. Miguel Duron, b. 17 Oct 1694, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Micaela Gomez Rendon, 04 Jun 1719, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
5. Francisca Duron, b. 17 Feb 1698, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Felipe Ruiz de Camarillo, 24 Dec 1718, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
6. Cristobal Duron, b. 16 Nov 1700, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Gertrudis de Avila, 24 Jan 1723, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
7. Efigenia Duron, b. 27 Dec 1703, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Antonio Aguilar, 26 May 1725, Asuncion de Maria, Ags.
8. Francisca Xaviera Solano Duron aka Colmenero, b. 12 Jul 1707, d. 19 Jun 1764, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Felipe Martinez de Sotomayor.

POSSIBLE ORIGINS

Francisco Gutierrez Duron
Francisco Gutierrez Duron was of the Spanish caste; from IM’s on which he was a witness, his birth took place between 1653 and 1657, and though I don’t know where he was born, he was living in Aguascalientes as early as 1670. He couldn’t sign his name, so he never received a formal education, and he dedicated himself to farming (probably legumes, chiles and maiz). If he owned any land, it was very little - enough to sustain himself and his family, with some surplus to sell at market. To supplement their income, his second wife, Beatriz de la Vera, did laundry for some people in town.

Multiple burial records for the same person within a few years

I have noticed a a few instances, at least 5 so far, where a person has two burial records within a few years. This in Nochistlan with the first burial records occurring in the mid 1780s.

One example is below of Maria Duran widow of Lucas de Aguirre.

Why is this occurring?

05 Jun 1786
México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TTZ5?cc=1804458&wc=3P9K-RM… : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Entierros 1771-1807 > image 175 of 578; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

30 Nov 1791
México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TTBF?cc=1804458&wc=3P9K-RM… : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Entierros 1771-1807 > image 240 of 578; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

brother of Lamberto de Alba Jimenes

Can´t find a brother (friar ?) of Jose Lamberto Alva (or de Alba) Jimenes, only reference I have is that he was "presbítero in Cienega de Mata, Jose Maria. Apparently also another brother Reynaldo was close to them.
We make a living with what we get,But we make a life with what we give.

Abraham de Alba Avila
Terrestrial Plant Ecology, Permaculture and Holistic Management & Low Stress Animal Handling   cel: 449-100-9966

Manuel de Alba d.1732

Any more info on Manuel ? only know that he died in Teocaltiche in 1732, married Catarina Martin del Campo, but no clue where he was born, Spain ?
We make a living with what we get,But we make a life with what we give.

Abraham de Alba Avila
Terrestrial Plant Ecology, Permaculture and Holistic Management & Low Stress Animal Handling   cel: 449-100-9966

Manuela de Carcamo y Santa Cruz

Hello,

I'm reviewing the first film of Baptisms for Tlaltenango. I'm researching the Molina family. I found Manuela de Carcamo y Santa Cruz living with the Molina Family . She shows up as a godmother in the baptism of Josepha de Molina Albertiz (3 april 1636). Does anyone know anything about Manuela de Carcamo y Sta Cruz living in Tlaltenango??

Thanks

saludos

susana

Rodrigo de Castro Tlaltenango. (married to Francisca Rodas)

Hello,

I need help reading a record.
It is the baptismal record of Francisco Gonzalez (4 nov 1639) in tlaltenango.
The godparents were:
Rodrigo de castro "turget???" y Catalina Ponce doncella su cunada

The "turget" (I don't think is that) could be a clue.

Here is the link:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-D4?i=70&cc=180445…

Thanks y Saludos

susana L

Gonzalo de Antunes "el Portugués"

Hola a todos,

Me gustaría abrir una discusión sobre Gonzalo de Antunes o Antúnez "el Portugués", establecido en Michoacán en los siglos XVI y XVII, y genearca de los Antunes o Antúnez de Borja relacionados con los Villaseñor y muchas otras familias de la zona. En su honor y el de su familia reciben nombre el pueblo y Llanos de Antúnez en Michoacán.

También lo he visto nombrado como Gonzalo Antúnez y Yáñez.

La información que he encontrado acerca de él hasta ahora es muy interesante, enlisto algunos puntos importantes:

1.- En 1592 fue nombrado teniente de corregidor de Tancítaro.
2.- En 1598 contrae matrimonio en Pátzcuaro con María Martínez de Borja.
2.- El 24 de noviembre de 1613 fue nombrado familiar de la Inquisición por la ciudad de Pátzcuaro.
3.- En 1614 fue el receptor de una merced de dos sitios de ganado mayor y cuatro caballerías.
4.- En 1617 estableció una capellanía en la Hacienda de Cancita, con valor de dos mil quinientos pesos, para su hijo el bachiller Felipe de Antúnez.

Gabriel Ibarrola Arriaga, menciona en su libro "Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid", publicado en 1969, que Gonzalo Antúnez fue originario de "Randulfes, en el Obispado de Braga (Portugal)", el cual yo he dado por supuesto que se refiere a la freguesía de "Rendufe" en Amares (hay otra con el mismo nombre en Guimarães, más lejana de Braga), puesto que no encuentro otra población con nombre parecido en la zona. En la misma publicación, escribe que fue hijo de Antonio Yanes (sic) e Isabel Rodríguez, lo malo es que no cita fuentes (o por lo menos no se ven en Google Books (https://books.google.es/books?id=bsAKAQAAIAAJ&q=%22gonzalo+antunez%22+p…). Dávila Garibi lo menciona en su obra "Del Comendador D. Leonel de Cervantes...", pero tampoco consigo sacar mayor información.

Diversas publicaciones a penas mencionan las investigaciones que mandó hacer sobre él el virrey Velasco, y la Real Cédula entregada "a un oidor" para que proceda en su contra. Sin embargo, el contenido de dichos procesos o investigaciones sigue siendo un misterio.

Si alguien se quiere unir en la búsqueda (citando fuentes y absteniéndose de hacer conjeturas) acerca de este antepasado de muchos de nosotros, seguramente lo agradeceremos todos.

Saludos cordiales.

Gregorio Sandoval Legaspi's wife

Hey everybody!! I have a question about Gregorio Sandoval Legaspi and his wife.

I descend from his son Nicanor Sandoval, who married Sotera Rodríguez in 1878 and then Ramona Pulido in 1906. In the marriage with Ramona Pulido it states that he is a widow and mentions Sotera Rodríguez, and his parents are Gregorio Sandoval Legaspi and Dolores Pulido. This also matches their grandson, Maximiano Sandoval - my great grandfather.

However, in the marriage registry of Nicanor Sandoval and Sotera Rodríguez (his first wife), Nicanor appears as son of Gregorio Sandoval and Teresa Espinoza, and I don't understand this at all. All the other names match, the dates match, and "Teresa" doesn't sound like "Dolores" at all. It's also not a full name; she is "María Dolores Pulido de los Ríos", so nothing close to "Espinoza". Also, I searched for a registry for Gregorio Sandoval and Teresa Espinoza, and didn't find anything at all.

Do you think it was just a weird registry mistake?

Rosa Maria Flores married to Pedro de la Torre de la Torre

Hello,

I'm reviewing the line of Pedro de la Torre and Rosa Maria Flores in Jerez, Zacatecas. I have several children for the couple. Also I know the parents of Pedro de la Torre (Joseph de la Torre Acosta and Josepha de la Torre del Rio). But I don't have Rosa's parents.
I have read that her parents are Pedro Flores de la Torre and Juana de la Torre but I couldn't find any sources for the information.
Does anyone have any sources to link her to the parents??
Any information would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

susana

Sierra Mojada, Coahuila

Yes, This is WAY WAY off topic for this group but I'm helping my second cousin. I'm looking for baptism/birth records for 1888 and civil records for this area start in 1892 so I'm looking for baptism records and don't see it listed as a location in the church records.

If anyone is researching Coahuila where do you think folks registered their children for Sierra Mojada?

thanks,

Joseph Puentes

Maria de Isla- Magdalena de Lavazares

Hola,

Como muchos en este grupo soy descendiente de Maria de Isla y Cristobal Martinez Lozano quienes tuvieron descendencia en Aguascalientes en 1600's. Encontre en el foro, algo que escribio CARLOS PEREDO en 2014, hablando sobre MARIA DE ISLAS MOCTEZUMA:

" Gracias a Datos que en gran parte fueron investigados por Don Guillermo Tovar, sabemos con claridad que Benito de Isla casado con Magdalena Lavezares fueron padres de

Magdalena de Lavezares y

María de Isla"

Alguien sabe la fuente documental de la investigacion de Don Guillermo Tovar a la que CARLOS PEREDO se esta refiriendo? Estoy tratando, como muchos, de establecer el arbol de la familia ISLA en la zona.

Saludos

Susana Leniski

Military Records of Nueva Espana (Mexico)

I think I found out where to look for military records of individuals that served in the americas. Such as Nueva Espana (Mexico):

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Spain_Military_Records

The records of those that served in the Americas are found in the General Archive of Simancas. These records include the following places:

Buenos Aires
Cuba
Chile
Philippines
Guatemala
Nueva España (originally Mexico and Central America except Panama)
Viceroyalty of Peru (originally included most of Spanish South America)
Indias (Florida, Puerto Rico y Venezuela)

Archive of Simancas?
http://www.mecd.gob.es/redirigeme/

Help With Explanation of Baptism Record

Hello, I came accross a Baptismo Record while doing research and I don't believe I've ever seen this.

The record states in parenthesis "(a quien baptizo en caso de necesidad Don Antonio Marmolejo)." I know for a fact that this person is not a member of the clergy from researching thousands of records from this parish. Don Antonio Marmolejo is married and has children.

Was this a common practice? Allowing someone other than a priest to baptize children?

Here is the link: No. 305 left page

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2GSD-5C?i=341&wc=3J6H-…

Thanks
Ruben R

Para los decendientes de Francisco de Covarrubias

*RESUMEN:* son 193 paginas Título de la unidad: "Informaciones: Francisco
de Covarrubias"
Archivo: Archivo General de Indias
Signatura: GUADALAJARA,48,N.23
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…

--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
Kutsaraipa: Mythical place where they met Ancestors
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
http://jerez-zacatecas.webcindario.com (web Vieja )
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/

Familysearch Records - No Format Listed

Does anyone know how to access the digital images referenced on these pages?

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1497850?availability=Family…

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2537417?availability=Family…

I haven't seen it where it doesn't list a format for consultation. Thanks in advance, and hope everyone is healthy and well!

-Richard