Nuestros Ranchos Site

Daniel,

Orodrica is common in Nochistlan Zac. My Saldivars are inter-connected to Ordorica's but as far as I can tell, I don't have a direct connection.

Alicia, San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: mormonboy74
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:18:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ordorica Surname

Does anyone know this surname, as far as I have seen its not very commen in Aguascalientes but there are A LOT in Jalisco and Michoacan Area. I have never heard the surname de Ordorica before until know. I think My Ordorica line migrated to Aguas in the mid 1740's. Here is my Ordorica line.

Maria Rita de Ordorica born ca. 1775 in Ciudad Aguascalientes, Ags., Mexico and married Hipolito de Soto around 1795 and had Mateo de Soto y de Ordorica who is my 4th great grandfather. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for all your help in the past.

I use PAF program, and it allows for different marriage events. But one event would still need to be the main marriage date. So for myself, I have been placing the Church marriage in the main marriage event and then I add the Civil Marriage as a separate marriage event. So at the high level view, it only shows the Church marriage but when I select the detail view, then it shows both dates and each date stores its own event location and event source.

Hope this helps,
Angie Godina

I think that the Church Marriage would be best because its the persons
belief in religious rites, just like us Mormons sometimes we get married in
Civil Law first, but its not recognized by the church to be Spouses yet
until you are married in the Temple, then its when we celebrated.

>From: longsjourney
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Church and civil marriage records
>Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 01:04:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>I have done church marriage records from Jerez and am now working on civil
>marriage records. I'm finding some that are years apart and others that
>are days apart, usually the civil marriage first.. Which date would you put
>for the wedding date? It appears there was a lot more fuss over the church
>marriage. I'm entering both into the files but wondered which should appear
>on the marriage date box. I know my grandparents from there only celebrated
>the church marriage date.
>
>Linda in Everett

Esther, there is an association of city historians for the state of Coahuila: Asociacion Estatal de Cronistas e Historiadores del Estado de Coahuila, A. C. I couldn't find an address or phone number online for the cronista in Guerrero, but as of 2005 the person is listed as Enrique Cervera Rodriguez. Maybe you can contact the city of Guerrero at buzon@coahuila.gob.mx, or you can contact the Asociacion at cronistascoahuila@yahoo.com.mx and hopefully someone can tell you how to contact Mr. Cervera.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA ---

Jonathan:

That sounds like a great idea. Who is organizing the conference and how will it be held?

Some interesting topics would be:
- Spanish language paleography
- Use of marriage dispensation records
- Surname systems in early colonial Mexico
- Border crossing records

Chris:

I am glad that you have decided to come back to the group.

Have you thought about doing DNA testing? I had my cousin, whose direct paternal line is Pinedo do a Y-DNA test last year and I would be interested to see if you two are a match since my maternal grandfather is a Pinedo from a Tlaltenango branch of Pinedos.

Yolanda:

Look in the Links section in Nuestros Ranchos and under Geographical Information there is a link for Jalisco municipalities. San Gabriel is south of Lake Chapala just north of the Colima border.

If you look at the Digital Map collections also under the Links - Geographical information, you will see that there is a link to the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transporte's Atlas Digital de Mexico. You can dowload a high resolution PDF map of Jalisco where you can find what towns are around San Gabriel... it looks like: Zapotitlan, Tomilan, Tapalpa and Zapotlan el Grande... The closest large city will likely be Colima.

This Sounds good I will always find new records online but then then need to
order the film to find the parents, etc. This will be fun. Cant wait!

>From: conrique
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Revamped search interface for
>FamilySearchcoming soon !
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 18:23:42 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Around 2,000 genealogists who are reported to have attended this year's
>National Genealogical Society (NGS) Conference --- held last week in
>Richmond, Virginia --- were offered a preview of the forthcoming revamped
>search interface for the FamilySearch site.
>
>Family History Library representatives at their booth now project the
>revamped site launch to be THIS FALL.
>The new system integrates information from the presently disparate
>databases (IGI, Pedigree Resource and Ancestral Files, etc.) and will
>feature linking to digitizes records.
>
>And, even though only a small portion of the Library's vast holdings will
>be available when the site relaunches, content will expand rapidly and
>record IMAGES will become available online soon.
>
>Efrain Conrique
>San Diego, California

thank-you for your assistance in providing information on diagnosis
translations. "Hydropesia," then could have been internal bleeding, or
hydrophilia, which is absorbing water. It is a challenge when letters are
interchanged, s for f, etc. and c for s as far as the other term I found
"fistula antigua" though I think you are right about it being a malignant
festering pustule. What a way to go!

Corrine

Alicia,

That was so tragic that he died in the end; but what a great story about the empathy people had for each other not only in their own community, but all along the way. I know that some people survived with permanent disabling injuries after accidents. I guess sometimes it was better they died. Otherwise they would really be a burden to their families. There was no prenatal or preventive care, and no recourse for rapes, and other crimes. Some people, like my one great-grandmother were herbalists for their communities who would help by massage therapy and potions, etc. People did what they could. We are so lucky to be living in an age where there are people like Ed to make our lives more comfortable.

I have seen records where several families were wiped out at once due to being attacked by marauding Indians-- "muerto a manos de los hindios barbaros". I had one great-grandfather die after falling off his horse. That would happen a lot. Another great-grandfather was shot to death by robbers. A great uncle had a stroke and lived for years paralyzed; his oldest son was only about 14 and he had to become the man in the family and take over their cantina and restaurant because his siblings were mostly girls and his mother had to tend to the father.

Emilie

----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones translations

Ed,

My mother and great aunts have shared many factual stories about hardships in these very rural areas. Where my family comes from is Tlachichila Zacatecas in the municipality of Nochistlan. Mom says that when she was a little girl in the ranchos outside of Tlachichila there were no doctors in Tlachichila or Nochistlan, the nearest MD's were in Teocaltiche or Aguascalientes. Mom is 82 so this must have been between 1930 and 1940.

Mom had a brother who died as a result of an accident, a stone wall fell on him and crushed him in the chest. There were no vehicles and no paved roads. Mom said that the men of the town constructed a cot and between several men they carried him to Aguascalientes on foot. It took them over a week to carry the cot/stretcher on foot. As they traveled the word would spread and they would get more men on the way to help and every night they would spend the night at some good samaritan's home who would feed them all.

Can you imagine the pain her brother endured over several days and can you imagine the dedication of those who carried him day after day. Just like this story I'm sure there are many more similar or even more gruesome.

For the most part, people died due to lack of medical care.
Alicia

----- Original Message ----
From: Edward Serros >
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:32:12 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones translations

I agree with the translations but I am sure that in many of the cases they do not really tell you what the person really died of. I have reviewed death records from the late 1700's and the 1800's in Jalisco and Zacatecas and what strikes me are the epidemics of "fiebre," which can represent any number of infectious diseases---viral or bacterial. I have no idea of what the diagnosis was when they refer to "cerebral" or "dolor" or whatever. Furthermore the funeral record is being recorded by a priest, who has little or no knowledge of medicine.

I think it is safe to say that a large proportion of the population unfortunately died of infectious diseases for which there was no treatment available at that time. Can you imagine no antibiotic therapy for pneumonia, ear infections, throat infections, skin infection, infected wounds, tuberculosis, lepropsy, etc.? Can you imagine no surgical therapy for appendicitis or cholecystitis (gall stone attack) or heart disease? Can you imagine giving birth to a child where there was no treatment for eclampsia (toxemia) of pregnancy or where there were no surgical options for birth of a child who was not going to be delivered in the usual (vaginal) manner. Can you imagine no treatment for high blood pressure or diabetes?

Bottom line: it was a different world. Take the diagnosis of death with a grain of salt, to say the least.

I know that there are other physicians that are part of this group who may wish to comment on the above

Edward Serros, MD

You should probably search Guadalajara for these records since it was the
capital of Nueva Galicia during this time. And since Zacatecas was also part
of Nueva Galicia.

>From: "Rodolfo Trujillo"
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To:
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sierra de Pinos Records 1650 - 1730
>Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:52:49 -0500
>
>Hello All,
>
>In my searching I have had trouble finding records of marriages and
>baptisms
>in Pinos, Zac (AKA Sierra de Pinos) and surrounding ranches and haciendas.
>Does anyone know where these records may be found? I've heard rumors that
>they may actually exist as part of church records somewhere in Jalisco.
>Please Help!
>
>Regards, Rodolfo Trujillo

Rodolfo,

Within the Nuestros Ranchos site once you've logged in there is a section called films. It's on the upper right hand side. Click on films, you will see a list on the left side with the names of the states in Mexico, click on Zacatecas, scroll down the list of the names of the municipalities and you will see Pinos. It shows 33 rolls of film for Pinos. Click on Pinos and it will show description of film, the year range, film #, batch # and type of index. Having identifed which film you need click on the index button for that description/year and happy searching.

Buena Suerte,

Alicia de San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: Rodolfo Trujillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:52:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sierra de Pinos Records 1650 - 1730

Hello All,

In my searching I have had trouble finding records of marriages and baptisms
in Pinos, Zac (AKA Sierra de Pinos) and surrounding ranches and haciendas.
Does anyone know where these records may be found? I've heard rumors that
they may actually exist as part of church records somewhere in Jalisco.
Please Help!

Regards, Rodolfo Trujillo

Marina:

Welcome to the group. I hope this group can help you make some progress with your genealogy.

If your family is from Valparaiso, you are a bit out of luck in the sense that the films from that parrish are not yet indexed by the Church of Latter Day Saintes (LDS). The most important resource for any genealogist researching Mexico are parrish records and since the LDS has more than 90% of these filmed, that is the primary resource. What you need to do is find your closest Family History Center on http://www.familysearch.org and start ordering and reviewing films.

I can tell you that the origin of the surnames you are researching is largely the Jerez and Tlaltenango area so you will likely be able to eventually link up with others in the group that are researching the same families. The original Talamantes in the area were a pair of brothers who lived in Tlaltenango around 1630 named Jacinto and Pedro Lopez de Talamantes. Jacinto's son's seem to have taken their mother's last name (Covarrubias) so most Talamantes are probably descendants of the latter.

There is a strong nucleus of Caderas around Jerez. Miguel Caldera, and Cristobal Caldera (probably Miguel's uncle) were very prominent among the first settlers of the region. Miguel was a mestizo Captain who negotiated peace with the local Chichimecas (Zacatecas and Guachichiles) and therefore lots of indigenous people took his name.

The Miramontes in the region descend from Juan de Miramonte who immigrated from Spain in the late 1500s and settled in Tlaltenango where he married Maria de Haro y Saucedo (a descendant of Pedro de Bobadilla who was the original encomendero of Tepechitlan). They had a great number of children, some named Haro and some Miramontes and others Saucedo.

You can find information on most of these people in the GEDCOM database under the Tlaltenango families tree. However, genealogy is about working back one generation at a time so you should start by documenting all of the information you have (whether oral or from documents) in a database with detailed source information. You can download the free PAF program from the familysearch site.

I would start by ordering some films from Valparaiso and trying to find Secundino's and Pascuala's marriage which should list their places of birth and names of their parents.

Linda:

I noticed that some of the searches I was able to do before with wildcards are no longer possible as well. I think they have further restricted wildcard searches probably because it was taxing their servers too much.

I will try to play around with it over the next couple of weeks, but in the meantime, I do know that as long as you have a batch number, you can do whatever wildcards you want. That makes the Films database with batch numbers all the more important.

For any new members who are not familiar with the Films database on Nuestros Ranchos, I encourage you to try it. Many members spenta great number of hours putting it together. Instructions are on the Nuestros Ranchos User Guide that you can download from the "Reference Materials" files section.