Nuestros Ranchos Site

I've found that word describing the cast of a person who would be the child
of a spaniard and a mulato (three quarters white and one quarter black),
same as Morisco. Castizo would be for a person three quarters a spaniard and
one quarter indian.
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: "Deena Ortiz"
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To:
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Meaning ofTresalva
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:59:17 -0700
>
>I apologize if this question has appeared before. Recently, while reading
>christening records, I have come across the word "tresalvo" right after the
>name of the child being baptised. Can someone define it for me? Thanks
>
>~Deena Ortiz~
>
>

Hi Deena,

The word "Tresalvo" was used in old church records to define the caste of a
person that was three quarters white and one quarter indian, like the child
of a Spaniard with a Mestizo. It comes from the words "tres"="three" and
"albo"="white"). Hope this helps.

Bill Figueroa

You can access the 61 volumes of the Mexican Inquisition that the Bancroft
Library purchased at
_http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collections/latinamericana/inquisition.htm…
(http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collections/latinamericana/inquisition.html)
They give a description of the acquisition, as well.
It just so happens that it contains a 360 page volume on my surname in the
town that my family is from(Juchipila). My g-g gfather was a rich and
prominent man there circa 1850. The family in this doc were descendants of the
forst encomendero of Juchipila. I traced about nine generations to about the mid
17th century. Their paternal line actually goes back to 1300 A.D. to Ferrer
de Fuentes. My main goal is to bridge a 150 year gap ( if it does connect).
Anyhow, I hope that many of us can get useful info here.
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks Emily for that link.........it answered my question. What atrocities occurred in the name of God and the church.

Alicia

Natalie---

I think many of us, especially those pushing 70 like myself, have trouble at the computer and viewer. One thing that helped me was that the director at our FHC ordered a 60X viewer that enlarges everything. Some people don't like using it because you have to move the lever constantly to reposition the lens (you can only view a section of the microfilmed page at that enlargement) and if you have arthritis (as I do) then that becomes a problem.

Thanks for the link to the Roots program.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: nc_coleman
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] George R. Ryskamp interview on Roots Television

I hadn't checked the Roots Television site in a while, so I'm not sure how long this has been on. In this program, host Sharon DeBartolo Carmack interviews George R. Ryskamp, author of "Finding Your Hispanic Roots" (4-part interview; interview preceded by a commercial). Check the interview here:

http://www.rootstelevision.com/players/player_rootsbooks.php?bctid=2818…

I have only had a chance to listen/watch part 1, so I am not in a position to give an overall review. However, Dr. Ryskamp is one of the best in the field of Hispanic Genelaogy.
If you have a chance, share your personal review of this program.

I hope all is going well with your research - mine is going slowly ... my eyes get very heavy when reading some of those Mexican records for extended periods (anyone else suffer from this malady??).
Have a good weekend.

Natalie in VA : )

mary did you ever get any information on your ancestors in peralvillo?

Daniel--

I once tried to get into the IGI index for "Moctezuma" for those who claimed ancestry from Moctezuma, and a message appeared that said more or less that listings for royalty, nobility, etc. were specially processed and had limited access. The message also said that direct descendants could contact: Temple Department, Special Services, 50 E. North Temple Street., Salt Lake City, UT 84150-6400. I think the batch number started with a "T". Since I do not claim ancestry from Moctezuma, I didn't bother to follow up on that. However, one of the members of Ranchos recently told me that she did follow up on that message when it showed up for one of her ancestors who is linked to another noble line (not Moctezuma).

She also created a log-on-user-account at the LDS.ORG site and got into the Product Support section, which allowed her to type in a special message for help. She typed in the "T" batch number for her ancestor. The response message explained that certain batch numbers are for royal, noble, peerage, or medieval family group records and stated that certain information on royal lines that they have are available on microfilm. However, if the source call number is "FDP" or "SIS", the original source records are available only to direct line relatives through Special Services. You first have to find your ancestor who is a descendant of nobility that has been flagged with that special message on the IGI and send them a printout of the IGI entry and advise them of your relationship to the deceased descendant of the royal or noble line. I imagine several people who run into these messages on the IGI are quite surprised to find they are linked to certain royal lines.

The message goes on to say that the sources used to compile royal pedigrees or pedigrees from before 1500 is available in the Author or Title Search of the Family History Library Catalog to obtain the call numbers (for books, etc.), which you can give to your local library or university library who may have access to these sources through inter-library loan. The message also says that the microfilm copy of the source list for all surnames is available on Films 1239010 to 1239015 that you can order through your local family history center. The clue here is "direct descendants". The people at the main Family History Center must have investigated which recent descendants of nobility, etc. they have listed in the IGI that tied in to the royal lines on which they have information and have flagged these entries in the IGI, in order to help only those who they have found actually descend from these special lines. They otherwise would be overwhelmed with requests for help in tryi
ng to pr
ove royal ancestry from the most noted lines.

I believe that most proven direct lines of descendants of Moctezuma live in Spain, since the descendants of Mexican royalty married Spanish nobility and became very Spanish within a few generations and were taken to Europe long ago, but many Mexicans continue to claim otherwise. Remember that many people would change their names to honor respected members of their communities and don't really have blood links to the surnames they adopted.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: mormonboy74
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:25 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendants of Moctezuma

Does anyone know where I can find a website or book about the current living descendants of Moctezuma? Thanks. I love this group so much, we all have helped each other. Any Info. is appreciated. -Daniel Mendez Camino

Daniel:

The only way that I have used the Guia General (with some success) is simply doing a text search of the document description. You can do so by:

- Going to the link I previosuly posted: http://www.agn.gob.mx/guiageneral/

- Click on "Guia General" from the top menu in the red bar, then on "Contenido de la Guia" (Content of the Guide)

- The lower part of the window will split into two frames. On the bottom of the left hand frame there is a button that reads "Buscar." Click on this button.

- Search fields will appear in the upper part of the left hand frame. Select the default "Alcance y Contenido" (Scope and Content). You can also search by title or date, but unless you know exactly what you are looking for I don't see how these are useful.

- Scroll down a bit to find the field labeled "Palabras a buscar" (Words to search) and type in your search criteria. For example, I simply typed "Colotlan" to get any document that mentioned Colotlan in the description and found a couple of very valuable documents. You can also try a name if it is rare enough. For example, I tried "Talamantes" and got a number of interesting documents.

- Scroll down a bit further to the "Buscar" button and click it.

- You should get a list of documents organized by the collection and folio that they are in appearing in the lower part of the left hand frame. Click on the title next to lowest level folder (usually black) and the document description should appear in the right hand frame.

You can go document by document or by looking at the titles of the higher level folders you can get an idea of what each document is going to be about and limit your search that way.

I will keep playing around with it and see if there are better ways to use it.

The following 2, for your consideration:

Surnames of interest
Surnames of primary interest

Efrain

Dear Joseph--

With some people, perhaps what would work best, would
be to give an example of exactly what you needed. For
instance:

Surnames--Barrera, Cholico, Duenas, Sepulveda, in
Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, for years of 1765-1929.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane

--- Joseph Puentes wrote:

>
> in the application for membership there is one area
> needing
> clarification because so so so so many new
> applicants are not putting in
> the correct information: "Surnames Researching:**"
>
> Can you all think of a very short phrase that would
> convey the message
> that in this area the new applicant needs to insert
> the surnames they
> are researching?
>
> thanks for your help with this.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
> History Podcast)
>
>
> *

Hi Jonathan

I have a problem in my search.

My grandmother left my grandfather in the year of around 1914 from Mexico City. My gramdparents were never married. My mother was the first born and she was born in Chih. Chih in 1905. My grandfather regestered her as his child and my grandmother. He was a philarmonico and single and named my mother Elena Mitre. He gave her his last name.

He was hired to play at the teatro lydico in Mexico City. This is where my problem begans. They moved there so that he could start working playing his violin.

There were 5 children born to them, my mother, Jesus , Alejandro, Manuel and Antonia. Manuel died when my aunt Antonia was around 1 year old. It was during the war and my grandfather didn't allow my grandmother to attend the burial, so I was told.

When she left my grandfather, my mother was around 10 years old and she never saw him again. My grandmother came to El Paso TX where her mother was waiting for her and the children.

My aunt Antonia was baptized again when she was about 1 1/2 years old, this was in 1914. I have the certificate.

My grandmother married Natividad Lopez and moved to Colorado. She left the girls behind and took the boys with them. The boys entered school under the name of Lopez, they even went to the service with that name. They all claimed that they were US citizens (they are all gone now).

My mother was given the name of Gandara by her grandparents and was entered in school by that name and she used it all her life even when she got married to my father. (that is another story).

The problem is I don't know how to get the birth of my uncls and my aunt Antonia. They lived in a town called Peralvillo in Mexico City. I have tried to check with the LDS to see if there is a church in that town but they couln't help me.

Alejandro just died in Oct 2006, So all the family is gone. They put the birth date of 1914, which I don't believe it is true. I do not want to prove anyone right or wrong I just want to put the right information.

How can I go about doing this and finding my family in Mexico City. Most of this was given to me by my mother before she died. It wasn't until I starded to do research that my mother said all this to me.

I hope you can help me.
Thank you for your time
Mary

-----Original Message-----
>From: mexicanfhr
>Sent: Apr 15, 2007 8:12 PM
>To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research classes
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>Several weeks ago, I posted a announcement about a weekly Hispanic/Mexican Research class, that I would be teaching. Several of you stated an interest in taking the class.
>
>I just wanted to let you know, that the classes have started. They are being taught Sunday evenings at 7:15pm to 7:45pm (MST). Then from 8:00pm to 11:00 pm (MST) I am answering questions.
>
>I also can teach a class, during the week if the need arises.
>
>To register for the classes and to download the viewer software, goto the site: www.familyhistoryliveonline.com
>
>If you have any problems, feel free to contact me at: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
>
>thanks,
>Jonathan

Lorenzo:

Para nada eres el unico de tener ese "problema" de llevar un apellido que es una palabra comun. El mio es Ramos y como te imaginas tambien es bastante comun.

Cuando hablamos de que el apellido es "originario" de tal y tal lugar (por lo menos la mayoria de este grupo) nos referimos a donde primero aparecio el apellido dentro de nuestra region y donde parece aunestar el nucleo de personas con ese apellido.

La genealogia y la heraldia, aunque relacionadas no van mano en mano. Es decir llevar un apellido no es ser descendiente de una persona de ese apellido. Mi linea estrictamente paterna cambia de Ramos a Arazazu a fines de los 1700s y luego a Barreda a fines de los 1600s y peor hay un hijo adoptado que quiere decir que geneticamente no soy Barreda.

En Mexico suele haber apellidos cuyos linajes parecen haber originado en Mexico con familias indigenas o africanas que no llevaban anteriormente apellidos o mas bien que cambiaron sus apellidos de idioma indigena al castellano... el la region de Colotlan, las familias tlaxcaltecas que imigraron tomaron nombres tal como Ramos, Rios, Vela, Flores, etc. Entre las familias caxcanas, naturales del Valle de Tlaltenango, tomaron nombres como Hernandez, Cruz, Juarez.

A ese mismo pueblo de Tlaltenango inmigro un hombre llamado Juan de Miramonte a fines de los 1500s. Parece ser el unico inmigrante con ese apellido y tuvo bastante familia con su esposa que se llamaba Maria Haro y Saucedo. Unos hijos tomaron el nombre Miramontes, otros Haro y algunas nietas acabaron con el nombre Saucedo.

En Mexico, el apellido Miramontes y su variacion Viramontes, son "originarios" de Tlaltenango, ya que la gente que lleva este nombre o es descendiente de Juan de Miramontes o de algun esclavo, sirviente, peon, vecino de uno de sus descendientes que decidio adoptar ese nombre. Obviamente no todo el mundo que lleva el apellido es descendiente de el, pero de algun modo en la historia hubo una conexion con esa familia y asi se tomo el nombre.

Ya que Miramontes no es una palabra comun como Ramos o Cuesta, no es comparable ya que me imagino que nuestros nombres, igual que otros como Cruz, Rios, Flores se adoptaron espontaneamente por personas sin ninguna conexion a otra persona con ese mismo nombre... asi que para nuestros apellidos no creo que seria posible decir que son "originarios" de ningun lugar.

do you know if there are historical weather records for Mexico and how
far back they go. I'd love to know the weather for a couple of select
dates for Sombrerete and Colotlan in 1793.

thanks,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

nc_coleman wrote:
>
> One of the interesting lectures was called "Stormy Weather" - a discussion of how weather effects families, communities, and local economies. Did severe or cataclysmic weather conditions cause families to move from one place to another, etc. (Note: this lecture was a "maiden" lecture - never before presented; we were the guinea pigs for the speakers - but I thought it was a very interesting topic, and provided food for thought. Samples of types of federal records were: 1) Annual Reports of the Surveyors General; 2) federal annual reports of violent ... weather; 3) records of: the Weather Bureau; WPA; Dept of State (there was a brief discussion of the world-wide effcts of the eruption of the volcano Kracatoa [?sp]); 4) photograph collection.
>
>
> Have a good day.
> Natalie in VA
>
>
>
>
>

Joseph/Agustin:

Coculiten is in present days part of the municipality of Momax, Zacatecas, right on the border with Colotlan, Jalisco. Before a seperate parrish was set up in Momax, baptisms from this town were performed in Tlaltenango.

That being said, Agustin, you are right that many of the registro civil records for Momax are missing... i.e. only the following records are filmed by the FHL:

Nacimientos 1876-1882, 1912-1913 -- Matrimonios 1875-1877, 1879-1880, 1885-1887, 1912-1915 -- Defunciones 1871-1876, 1878-1886, 1912

VAULT INTL Film 2245129 Items 1 - 8

However, the church records are a bit more promising, in particular all of the baptisms for the years in question exist:

Bautismos 1878-1892 FHL INTL Film 443991
Bautismos 1892-1905 FHL INTL Film 443992

as well as the marriage films, though you will have to sift through informacion matrimonial:

Información matrimonial 1874-1877 FHL INTL Film 444000
Información matrimonial 1879-1886 VAULT INTL Film 444001
Información matrimonial 1886-1894 FHL INTL Film 444002
Información matrimonial 1894-1901 FHL INTL Film 444003

Many of the Momax films are indexed and can be searched online:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/films/Zacatecas/2030

this has been a confusion to me. In Jalisco and in Zacatecas I have seen
on maps a Coculitlen/Coculiten and then a Cuculiten/Cuculitlen (not sure
if the "tlen" is correct on either). Anyway I know that there was a
Cuculitlen in Zacatecas and those records are sometimes found in the
Tlaltenango films. Go to www.familysearch.org and find your local Family
History Center, pay them a visit and order some film:

Title
*Registros parroquiales, 1630-1961*

Authors
*Iglesia Católica (Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas) (Main Author)*

Notes
*Microfilm de manuscritos en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román.
Catholic church parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages
and deaths from Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Text in Spanish.*

Subjects
* México, Zacatecas, Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román - Church records*

Format
* Manuscript (On Film)*

Language
* Spanish*

Publication
* Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por The Genealogical Society of Utah,
1961-1978*

Physical
* 177 rollos de microfilm ; 35 mm., 16 mm.*

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
*
Bautismos 1884-1890 - FHL INTL Film [ 443824 ]
Bautismos 1890-1895 - FHL INTL Film [ 443825 ]
Bautismos 1895-1901 - FHL INTL Film [ 443826 ]*

If indeed you are looking for Momax films then here are some possible
films to order:

Title
*Registros parroquiales, 1776-1961*

Authors
*Iglesia Católica (Momax, Zacatecas) (Main Author)*

Notes
*Microfilm de manuscritos en Momax.
Algunos tomos incluyen índice.
Los registros de esta parroquia de Momax incluyen varios lugares de los
municipios de Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román en Zacatecas y Colotlán en
Jalisco.
Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages and deaths from
Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico.*

Subjects
* México, Zacatecas, Momax - Church records
México, Jalisco, Refugio - Church records*

Format
* Manuscript (On Film)*

Language
* Spanish*

Publication
* Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1962*

Physical
* 37 rollos de microfilm ; 35 mm.*

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
*Bautismos 1776-1811 - FHL INTL Film [ 443987 ]
Bautismos 1811-1829 - FHL INTL Film [ 443988 ]
Bautismos 1829-1850 - FHL INTL Film [ 443989 ]
Bautismos 1850-1878 - FHL INTL Film [ 443990 ]
Bautismos 1878-1892 - FHL INTL Film [ 443991 ]
Bautismos 1892-1905 - FHL INTL Film [ 443992 ]
Bautismos 1905-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 443993 ]

if you are looking in the Tepetongo area then here are films to order:

*

Title
*Registros parroquiales, 1750-1972*

Authors
*Iglesia Católica. San Juan Bautista (Tepetongo, Zacatecas) (Main Author)*

Notes
*Microfilme de manuscritos en los archivos de la parroquia y del
Obispado de Zacatecas.
Algunos de los libros incluyen índice.
Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriage petitions and
marriages, and deaths from Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico.*

Subjects
* México, Zacatecas, Tepetongo - Church records*

Format
* Manuscript (On Film)*

Language
* Spanish*

Publication
* Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
1978, 1988*

Physical
* 51 rollos de microfilme ; 35 mm., 16 mm.*

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
*Bautismos 1750-1770, 1775-1780, 1786-1808, 1812-1817 - FHL INTL Film [
1158146 ]
Bautismos 1818-1831 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158147 ]
Bautismos 1831-1847 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158148 ]
Bautismos 1847-1858 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158149 ]
Bautismos 1859, 1862-1870 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158150 ]
Bautismos 1871-1881 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158151 ]
Bautismos 1881-1891 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158152 ]
Bautismos 1891-1907 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158153 ]
Bautismos 1907-1916 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158154 ]
Bautismos 1916-1932 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158155 ]
Bautismos 1932-1937 - FHL INTL Film [ 1158156 ]
Bautismos de hijos naturales 1843-1860,1862-1919 - FHL INTL Film [
1158157 ]

*agustin mota wrote:
> agustin mota wrote: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: agustin mota
> Subject: Suniga -Luna
> To:
>
> I am looking for my lost family can you help? The only information i have is oral history. My grandfathers name was Asencion Luna Haro born around 1892 in Cuculiten Jalisco. My great grandfathers name was Crespin Luna he married Severiana Haro both i believe from the same area.my grandmothers name was Clemencia Suniga born around 1910, married at age 13 died at about age20. after there marrige nothing was ever herd about the Suniga elders. My great grandfathers name was Pedro Suniga i was told came from the Tepetongo area.I was told years ago and recently that there had been a fire in Momax and that these records were lost. My aunts have birth certificates but they provided the information so that the certificate could be made.I know this for a fact.So any information will help get started.I am also reaserching Mota,Herrera,Alvares all from the Momax area these names are progresing due to other records.Thank you all Agustin from northern Sonoma county.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
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