Nuestros Ranchos Site

Sorry. There is no mention of Lt. Miguel Guerrero in The Life & Times of
Pancho Villa.
Jose Aguayo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pancho Villa and Lt. Miguel Guerrero

> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Jose Aguayo
>
>>I read with great interest your mention of General Trinidad Rodriguez. I,
>>too, am a student of the Mexican Revolution and especially General
>>Francisco
>>Villa and the Division Del Norte. When I read your message, I immediately
>>consulted the index of The Life & Times of Pancho Villa by Friedrich Katz.
>
> Jose, would your book include any information on the "Tigre de Tijuana"
> Lt. Miguel Guerrero, who died Feb 14, 1914 while fighting the Villistas in
> San
> Miguel el Alto? I'm curious as to his date and place of birth, and
> ancestry, to
> prove or disprove a possible family connection. There was a corrido
> written
> about him, and his remains are buried in Tijuana. I've seen only a brief
> reference
> to Guerrero on someone's blog, and have part of a faded newspaper article
> from
> 1936 that my grandmother saved. Guerrero murdered my grandfather in 1912.
>
> Thank you for your help and time.
>
> Gloria Delgado

Esperanza

the book contains many trees most ROBLES it is not very well organized for
its mostly hand written, send me some names and I will check the book.

Letty

Hola Nathan:
I read with great interest your mention of General Trinidad Rodriguez. I,
too, am a student of the Mexican Revolution and especially General Francisco
Villa and the Division Del Norte. When I read your message, I immediately
consulted the index of The Life & Times of Pancho Villa by Friedrich Katz.
There is indeed a reference to one General Trinidad Rodriguez, but no
listing of his maternal surname in the index. The narrative this 800 plus
page tome lists your possible ancestor four times. He was associated with
Villa from his bandit days before the Revolution. Villa considered him one
of his favorite generals -- as evidence, he adopted Trinidad's son Samuel
after the general was killed late in the Revolution. There is mention in
the book of Manuel Chao and Trinidad Rodriguez's troops being defeated by
General Pascual Orozco at the battle of Santa Rosalia in 1913. Trinidad
Rodriguez was the uncle of Rogelio Rodriguez Saenz whose father owned the
hacienda of El Pichague. The father, for obvious reasons, wanted nothing to
do with the revolution, but Rogelio also joined one of Villa's brigades.
The final mention in the book of General Trinidad Rodriguez is when he heard
that Villa threatened to resign command of the Division del Norte during his
dispute with General Carranza in 1914. When Carranza accepted Villa's
resignation and appointed him Governor of Chihuahua, a disgruntled General
Rodriguez was overheard to say, "I will go into the mountains and live off
roots!" I would bet that this General Rodriguez Saenz was in fact your "tio
abuelo" because Villa would have only allowed the erection of a statue in
his beloved Chihuahua of one of his favorite commanders and trusted friend.
Jose Aguayo
----- Original Message -----
From: "NathanJones"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:24 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ceniceros

>
> Ceniceros is a name in our family that is virtually interchangeable with
> Lucifer himself. El diablo.
>
> My mother turned 88 last week, on July 10. She's bedridden. She's always
> had flat feet, and has diabetic neuropathy, so her tiny feet can't support
> her weight anymore. And she has alzheimer's, so her memory is very weak.
>
> But when she hears that name her green eyes still glow red with fire.
>
> Ceniceros was the man who killed her father, my grandfather in 1923 in
> Jimenez, Chihuahua.
> He was the principal of the school in Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua at the
> time.
>
> And a member of the brand new PRI Party. Perhaps, the first PRI candidate
> to be assasinated.
>
> Grandpa Nicolas found Pancho VIlla's buried treasure, so the story goes.
> And Ceniceros killed him for it.
>
> I don't have all the facts right. But family tradition says Ceniceros was
> released following a general amnesty that freed all prisoners following
> the revolution.
>
> Naturally, the revolutionary period in Chihuahua is of interest to my
> family. I've tried to find sources without much luck.
>
> I cannot corroborate whether General Trinidad Rodriguez was actually my
> mother's uncle as she has always told me. She took me to his mounted
> statue when she showed me Chihuahua as a boy, and told me that was her
> uncle.
>
> As I've mentioned before, there are TWO Generals Trindidad Rodriguez in
> this period, and area.
> General Trinidad Rodriguez Quintanilla is defnitely NOT my relation. The
> other Trini Rodriguez is the one we believe is part of our familia. But I
> can find no direct evidence:(
>
> I would like to piece the puzzle together for my madrecita querida before
> she dies. Tie the Rodriguez family together at last.
>
> Mama lost her father when she was only five years old. Yet she remembers
> him as if she saw him yesterday. Nothing has been able to erase that
> memory from her mind, or that love in her heart.
>
> I recently heard from a cousin that family friends came to my uncle Guerro
> about forty years ago. My mother's older brother by 11 months. They told
> him Ceniceros was in town, there in Chihuahua, Chihuahua. They gave my
> uncle a loaded gun and told him they would go with him to kill him.
>
> But my uncle uncharacteristically said his first responsibility now was
> his own children, not avenging his father.
>
>
>
>

The Diego Bergara posting is in the Tlaltenango Families GEDCOM which I am
compiling from the earliest Tlaltenango marriage film. I can get you a scan
of that entry next time I am looking at the film if you like though I have
been transcribing the entries as best I can.

- Arturo

=====================
From: scooterpie1968
Date: 2006/07/18 Tue AM 12:08:48 CDT
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who posted the GEDCOM file for Diego Bergara?

I have Bergara's in my line from around 1754 to 1789....(Maria Olaya Bergara
born in 1789 to Salvador Bergara and Maria Salvadora Godoy)....

Thanks...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arturo Ramos"

Arturo,
Have you "made the leap," into Spain with your Haro line?
Pat

Where are you on your research of Onate lines. I have only recently tied into the line in the 1500's. We can compare notes on what we know. I got a note from Marge who also ties into the line but I can't find her post online to reply to. I sent moderator my gedcom I think. BUt haven't seen it posted.
THere is one book I need to get that may help us. I do not know it it is avalable.

I still have a lot of documentation to do. IT seems I never get caught up on the documentation and am anxious to keep moving forward on my research.

Esther

Here's some additional information on Moctezuma that you may find
interesting.
http://genealogia.netopia.pt/titulos/tit_show.php?id=14938.
Pat

longsjourney wrote:

>I'm afraid there is no match.... my direct ancestor comes through their daughter Leonarda,
>
> who's daughter, Perfecta Castanon who married Severiano Perez who's parent's Victoriano Perez and Felipa Zamora are my direct ancestors. I've tried to find Perfecta's father Pedro Castanon connection to my line of Castanon's but haven't so far... so our kinship makes us kissing cousins I'm afraid..
>

So close and yet so far. I really wanted a good reason to to go back to
BC as I think that and the Yukon are absolutely fabulous and rugged
placed to visit. Keep researching and who knows but that Pedro Castanon
might be one of yours and I think that would make us related. Time will
tell.

see you prima (hey if nothing else our families knew each other and were
friends back in Mexico).

joseph

>
>Linda in b.c.
>
>ps.. I'm having to cut and paste all my (b) and (n) since I spilled a cup of coffee on my keyboard.. live and learn

Thank you.

You know you can't draw too many inferences from a basic 12 marker test.

My initial 12 marker matches were all with Anglos, which led me to incorrect conclusions.

If you have more marker test results pending, when you get them you will have a better idea of where you stand genetically.

I had matches jumping out of the woodwork the first day my results were posted on Gary Felix's site. One Czech lady in particular says we are an exact match. That completely thru my sister and me. We never anticipated any Slavic ancestry.

She sent me her family tree and both our families attended the same church in San Antonio, Texas two hundred years ago. So maybe there was some hanky panky in the confessional:)

I was a DNA virgin, susceptible to suggestion.

It is a lot to digest in one meal:)

Jovana:

Welcome to the group. I am sure there are people here who would be more than glad to help. We will just need a bit more information. Unfortunately in genealogy physical descriptions of people are not very useful. I suppose what we need to start with is whether you know the name of the town and the approximate date that your granfather was born.

I am pretty certain that the name Viramontes is an alteration of the name Miramontes, which is very common in Zacatecas and I have been able to trace it back to the original immigrant from Spain in the late 1500s, Juan de Miramonte who married Maria de Haro y Saucedo and had several children in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.

If you do not know the exact birthplace of your grandfather and if he immigrated to the US, you can try the Social Security death index. You should be able to get his SSN and then order his application which will list his parents and birthplace...

I think this may be your grandather:

BENJAMIN VIRAMONTES 20 Oct 1901 Sep 1973 90650 (Norwalk, Los Angeles, CA) (none specified) 554-16-1732 California

Give us some more info and we will go from there....

Ernie

I would love to see what Jaime Holcomb complied on Petronila. Have you seen
the book "Moctezuma's Children, Aztec Royalty Under Spanish Rule, 1520-1700"
by Donald E Chipman? It's a good book, I bought it from University of Texas
Press. It can also be purchased through Amazon.com

Rose

>From:
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogia de Nochistlan
>Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 9:19:44 -0700
>
>It is hard to find. I located a library in Texas with a copy. but they were
>not willing to let it out of their state on an inter library loan.
>
>But they were kind enough to copy the ten pages of chapter 58, capitulo 58.
>The descent of Petronila Moctezuma and Martin Navarro down through both of
>their daughters.
>
>The chapter corroborates Petronila's descent from the emperor of the
>Aztecs. Something I've been looking for for years.
>
>I also have Petronila's marriage record as compiled by Jaime Holcombe.
>Further proof of her imperial descent.
>
>I would be gald to email my scans to you so everyone can view this valuable
>material.
>
>And, in hopes that others will contribute what they have and know about
>Petronila Moctezuma.
>My cause celebre!
>

http://www.federacionzacatecana.org

i thought the link above might be helpful should you wish to make contact with recent immigrants from the various towns and ranchos from Zacatecas.

enrique legaspi frias

---------------------------------
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Rose,

I would love to get a copy of that and would try my best to help
you transcribe and translate accurately. I had heard something
similar (had heard that that's why the family had to run a proof
of nobility), but had no date on it. Please consider my offer...

Thanks,
Connie

Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX, USA

Message in fortune cookie: "Meat not Chicken"

1gnzlz@verizon.net

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arturo,
I have the book....it's absolutely excellent! It's filled with
lots of letters (mostly LONG ones) from those in Mexico to their
loved ones in Spain, usually with very descriptive identifiers
for the parties involved (i.e. for the sender and recipient).
It is indexed and I'd be glad to do lookups.

The letters are an awesome source for the genealogist because
they're very personal. They contain requests for loved ones to
join them (or not, because of dangers), they tell what they're
up to, where they've been, ask about family members back in
Spain. Several I've read explain that they have sent money with
so and so, who's arriving at such & such port, and this is money
for passage for the rest of the family.

Definitely worth it! I bought mine in Juarez. Don't know where
it's available, but if you can get your hands on it, I think
you'd find it worthwhile for research of that time period.

Let me know what you need.

Sincerely,

Connie

Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX, USA