Dr.mt

MEXICO wins GOLD at Olympics

Published by nc_coleman –
Foros
Announcements and Events

In case you missed it, MEXICO has won its first GOLD medal of the 2012 Olympics in Mens Soccer/Football.They defeated Brazil.
Bien hecho! (Today, August 11, 2012.)

Comentarios

Comentario

I guess this subject is not directly related to genealogy, but it's always nice to see your home country (or the one your ancestors came from) win such an important event. Well, I can try and link it to our target area with a small story I just learned a few days ago. Both my wife and I grew up in a town in Jalisco named Zacoalco de Torres. Years ago, when she was a kid, she knew this family who lived right next door to her. She tells me that she and her brothers used to play hide and seek with the kids of this family every now and then. A couple years later, the family moved. Just the other day, my wife was calling her dad, and he told her that one of the kids they used to play with became a soccer player, and he was actually with the Mexican team in London. His name is Miguel Ponce, and even though he played as substitute, he was one of the lucky ones receiving a gold medal today in London. He is probably the first person growing up in my hometown Zacoalco who obtains an Olympic gold medal.

Steve in NC

Need Insight on listing of race on death records

Published by LasFlores –
Foros
Genealogy Research

This question is from another genealogy site and I'm hoping someone can help this gentleman. The records are from Guanajuato, Mx -sorry. This is a copy & paste of his question.*****Hi everyone.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Las Flores:

El sistema indicando la raza de las personas perteneció a la época del Virreinato. Desde principios del Siglo XIX se conocieron las ideologías liberales. Los precursores de la Independencia combatieron la división por razas.

A partir de la Independencia en 1821 fueron desapareciendo las distinciones por raza, en unos lugares más pronto que otros, actualmente no es permitido hacer esas distinciones, la excepción es en las zonas indígenas en donde se toman medidas de protección en favor de estas poblaciones.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

I just came up with records from Jalisco that indicated "no indigena" in the 1900's.....I don't place much value on these records, as they take into consideration how a person looked, whether they spoke the indigenous tongue, etc....

Is there a Real Audencia of Guadalajara Jalisco, Mexico archive online to look up?

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone know of any websites to look up documents online that is stored at the Real Audencia of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico?

Comentarios

Comentario

I want to look up these two about Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&&t…

Reference code: ES.41091.AGI/23.7.3.15//GUADALAJARA,230,L.3,F.129R
or: GUADALAJARA,230,L.3,F.129R

Year 1649

Also this one:

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&&t…

Reference code: ES.41091.AGI/23.7.3.15//GUADALAJARA,230,L.3,F.292R-292V
or: GUADALAJARA,230,L.3,F.292R-292V

Year is 1664

Nuestros Ranchos-Names

Published by Darlene –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa".

Comentarios

Comentario

i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa

Danny C. Alonso

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:23 PM Darlene wrote:

>
> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
> decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
> saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
> would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
> Josefina to Chepa, though.
>
> Darlene
> Yorba Linda, CA
>
> > On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> wrote:
>
> --
Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

When growing up, we had an elderly neighbor known as Cheva, we'd call her
Doña Cheva, at her funeral we found out her given name was Eusebia.

When I was growing up, we lived in a mostly all white neighborhood and
supposedly the neighbors across the street couldn't say my name Alicia so
everyone called me Alice. When I was about 19 years of age, I made the
decision to take back my name from Alice to "Alicia". To this day, some of
the old family friends will call me Alice, but about 99% of the people who
know me, call me by my given name Alicia. Just like Consuelo, I wanted my
given name back and wasn't willing to accept other people's version of my
name.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
> Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:23 PM Darlene wrote:
>
> >
> > The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
> > decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
> > saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
> > would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
> > Josefina to Chepa, though.
> >
> > Darlene
> > Yorba Linda, CA
> >
> > > On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.
> nuestrosranchos.org
> > wrote:
> >
> > --
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Kindred spirits!

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
> When growing up, we had an elderly neighbor known as Cheva, we'd call her
> Doña Cheva, at her funeral we found out her given name was Eusebia.
>
> When I was growing up, we lived in a mostly all white neighborhood and
> supposedly the neighbors across the street couldn't say my name Alicia so
> everyone called me Alice. When I was about 19 years of age, I made the
> decision to take back my name from Alice to "Alicia". To this day, some of
> the old family friends will call me Alice, but about 99% of the people who
> know me, call me by my given name Alicia. Just like Consuelo, I wanted my
> given name back and wasn't willing to accept other people's version of my
> name.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
>> i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
>> Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa
>>
>> Danny C. Alonso
>>

Comentario

My sister too went back to Alicia, but I prefer Alice, since Anglos pronounce her name "Alee-sha" instead of "Alee-cee-ah"

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of Alicia Carrillo
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 10:56 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names

When growing up, we had an elderly neighbor known as Cheva, we'd call her
Doña Cheva, at her funeral we found out her given name was Eusebia.

When I was growing up, we lived in a mostly all white neighborhood and
supposedly the neighbors across the street couldn't say my name Alicia so
everyone called me Alice. When I was about 19 years of age, I made the
decision to take back my name from Alice to "Alicia". To this day, some of
the old family friends will call me Alice, but about 99% of the people who
know me, call me by my given name Alicia. Just like Consuelo, I wanted my
given name back and wasn't willing to accept other people's version of my
name.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
> Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:23 PM Darlene wrote:
>
> >
> > The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
> > decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
> > saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
> > would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
> > Josefina to Chepa, though.
> >
> > Darlene
> > Yorba Linda, CA
> >
> > > On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.
> nuestrosranchos.org
> > wrote:
> >
> > --
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

I correct them and show them how to pronounce it, not Aleesha, but Alisia.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

> My sister too went back to Alicia, but I prefer Alice, since Anglos
> pronounce her name "Alee-sha" instead of "Alee-cee-ah"
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of
> Alicia Carrillo
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 10:56 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names
>
> When growing up, we had an elderly neighbor known as Cheva, we'd call her
> Doña Cheva, at her funeral we found out her given name was Eusebia.
>
> When I was growing up, we lived in a mostly all white neighborhood and
> supposedly the neighbors across the street couldn't say my name Alicia so
> everyone called me Alice. When I was about 19 years of age, I made the
> decision to take back my name from Alice to "Alicia". To this day, some of
> the old family friends will call me Alice, but about 99% of the people who
> know me, call me by my given name Alicia. Just like Consuelo, I wanted my
> given name back and wasn't willing to accept other people's version of my
> name.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
> > Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:23 PM Darlene wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had
> for
> > > decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina.
> I
> > > saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
> > > would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
> > > Josefina to Chepa, though.
> > >
> > > Darlene
> > > Yorba Linda, CA
> > >
> > > > On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.
> > nuestrosranchos.org
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > --
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ... nuestrosranchos.org/>
> www.nuestrosranchos.org
> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots in
> Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
>
>
> >

Comentario

I experienced the exact opposite.My given name is Alice and regardless, all my Spanish speaking family and friendswould insist on calling me Alicia.  As a child and adolescent, I was afraid of disrespecting them,so I just smiled and went along with it.   As I live in San Antonio, this continued all my life. Upon entering university for undergraduate and thengraduate school, I insisted on my given name.  It was time I stood up for myself and honored my parents choice. Alice BB

On Monday, February 27, 2017 3:23 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

I correct them and show them how to pronounce it, not Aleesha, but Alisia.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

> My sister too went back to Alicia, but I prefer Alice, since Anglos
> pronounce her name "Alee-sha" instead of "Alee-cee-ah"
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of
> Alicia Carrillo
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 10:56 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names
>
> When growing up, we had an elderly neighbor known as Cheva, we'd call her
> Doña Cheva, at her funeral we found out her given name was Eusebia.
>
> When I was growing up, we lived in a mostly all white neighborhood and
> supposedly the neighbors across the street couldn't say my name Alicia so
> everyone called me Alice. When I was about 19 years of age, I made the
> decision to take back my name from Alice to "Alicia". To this day, some of
> the old family friends will call me Alice, but about 99% of the people  who
> know me, call me by my given name Alicia. Just like Consuelo, I wanted my
> given name back and wasn't willing to accept other people's version of my
> name.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > i think Chepa and pepa and Pepe all come from the old version of Jose and
> > Josefa which was Jusepe and Jusepa
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:23 PM Darlene wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had
> for
> > > decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina.
> I
> > > saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa".  I can see how easily it
> > > would be to substitute the "p" for a "v".  I wonder how you get from
> > > Josefina to Chepa, though.
> > >
> > > Darlene
> > > Yorba Linda, CA
> > >
> > > > On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.
> > nuestrosranchos.org
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > --
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ... nuestrosranchos.org/>
> www.nuestrosranchos.org
> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots in
> Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
>
>
> >

Comentario

Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
(Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
This is my cousin's nickname.....

Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced: "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)

Consuelo Udave

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
>
>
> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from Josefina to Chepa, though.
>
> Darlene
> Yorba Linda, CA
>
>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>>
>> Send Research mailing list submissions to
>> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
>>
>>
>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> DAILY DIGEST
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
>> From: Emilie Garcia
>> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Research on behalf of M Vallazza
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>
>> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
>> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>>>
>>>
>>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>>>
>>>
>>> Emilie
>>>
>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>
>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…
>>
>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>> en.wiktionary.org
>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>>
>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>> en.wiktionary.org
>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ...
>>> www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots in Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Consuelo,

Nicknames are very subjective, subject to the whims of each family. I have
friends with a Josefina, one is known as Pina and the other is known as
Chepina, each from a different family.

In my own family, my nephew Roberto is still to this day called Tito. When
he was a baby we'd all call him Robertito, which was shortened to "Tito"

I being Alicia have been called at times Licha, that's what my mother in
law called me and while I'm not crazy about the nickname, I know she
shortened my name with love, so that made it special.

And of course your name is lovingly known as Chelo, my husband has a niece
Consuelo and she's mostly known as Chelo or Chela.

My oldest sister's name is Liduvina. Her kindergarten teacher couldn't
pronounce her name and began to call her Lucy, she's been Lucy ever since
kindergarten and although she wants to take back her name of Liduvina, it's
too late, the whole world knows her as Lucy.

Nicknames aren't always shortened, sometimes they are lengthened as in
Maria to "Mariquita" my husband is quite often called "Juanito" rather than
Juan because of his short stature and because it's a term of endearment.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Consuelo Udave wrote:

> Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
> (Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
> This is my cousin's nickname.....
>
> Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced:
> "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)
>
> Consuelo Udave
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
> >
> >
> > The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
> decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
> saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
> would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
> Josefina to Chepa, though.
> >
> > Darlene
> > Yorba Linda, CA
> >
> >> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Send Research mailing list submissions to
> >> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-
> nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >> DAILY DIGEST
> >> ****************************************
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
> >> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
> >> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
> >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
> >> Message-ID:
> >> pid=0&cid=32231&uid=6018&tid=2&fc0e6971220d3d240ca8b3a58d12ea
> 8b@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> >>
> >> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
> grandmother was
> >> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
> >> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
> Juana
> >> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
> >> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
> trees on
> >> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
> and
> >> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
> Juana
> >> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
> document
> >> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
> Leon
> >> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
> >> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
> own a
> >> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
> Revised
> >> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
> for
> >> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
> while
> >> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
> provide
> >> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
> >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
> >> Message-ID:
> >> pid=0&cid=32232&uid=6018&tid=2&5ace617a1886df2ddf545d417a7b10
> b9@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> >>
> >> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
> grandmother was
> >> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
> >> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
> Juana
> >> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
> >> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
> trees on
> >> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
> and
> >> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
> Juana
> >> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
> document
> >> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
> Leon
> >> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
> >> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
> own a
> >> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
> Revised
> >> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
> for
> >> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
> while
> >> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
> provide
> >> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
> >> From: Emilie Garcia
> >> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
> >> Message-ID:
> >> namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's
> ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Research on behalf
> of M Vallazza
> >> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
> >>
> >> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
> >> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name
> is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and
> they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those
> are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have
> always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Emilie
> >>>
> >>> Port Orchard, WA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Research on behalf
> of Joseph Puentes
> >>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
> >>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
> >>>
> >>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_
> diminutives_of_given_names
> >>
> >> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
> >> en.wiktionary.org
> >> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
> to '-ito' for ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
> >>
> >> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
> >> en.wiktionary.org
> >> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
> to '-ito' for ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> en.wiktionary.org
> >>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
> to '-ito' for ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ... nuestrosranchos.org/>
> >>> www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots
> in Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and
> Aguascalientes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Research Digest, Vol 133, Issue 22
> >> *****************************************
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Actually, I acquired the nickname of "Connie" when I was very young...not really sure where that particular name came from (born & grew up in 99% Anglo community)? When I was 25, I was determined to be called by my real name (since I had negative associations with "Connie", for a number of reasons). After a few years, I was able to get my immediate family members to switch over...even my parents! However...to this day, I have some cousins & childhood friends who still call me by that old nickname! Some habits are just difficult to erase....SIGH!

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
> Consuelo,
>
> Nicknames are very subjective, subject to the whims of each family. I have
> friends with a Josefina, one is known as Pina and the other is known as
> Chepina, each from a different family.
>
> In my own family, my nephew Roberto is still to this day called Tito. When
> he was a baby we'd all call him Robertito, which was shortened to "Tito"
>
> I being Alicia have been called at times Licha, that's what my mother in
> law called me and while I'm not crazy about the nickname, I know she
> shortened my name with love, so that made it special.
>
> And of course your name is lovingly known as Chelo, my husband has a niece
> Consuelo and she's mostly known as Chelo or Chela.
>
> My oldest sister's name is Liduvina. Her kindergarten teacher couldn't
> pronounce her name and began to call her Lucy, she's been Lucy ever since
> kindergarten and although she wants to take back her name of Liduvina, it's
> too late, the whole world knows her as Lucy.
>
> Nicknames aren't always shortened, sometimes they are lengthened as in
> Maria to "Mariquita" my husband is quite often called "Juanito" rather than
> Juan because of his short stature and because it's a term of endearment.
>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Consuelo Udave wrote:
>>
>> Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
>> (Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
>> This is my cousin's nickname.....
>>
>> Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced:
>> "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)
>>
>> Consuelo Udave
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
>> decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
>> saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
>> would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
>> Josefina to Chepa, though.
>>>
>>> Darlene
>>> Yorba Linda, CA
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Send Research mailing list submissions to
>>>> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-
>> nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>> DAILY DIGEST
>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>>>> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>>>> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > pid=0&cid=32231&uid=6018&tid=2&fc0e6971220d3d240ca8b3a58d12ea
>> 8b@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>>
>>>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
>> grandmother was
>>>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>>>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
>> Juana
>>>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>>>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
>> trees on
>>>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
>> and
>>>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
>> Juana
>>>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
>> document
>>>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
>> Leon
>>>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>>>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
>> own a
>>>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
>> Revised
>>>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
>> for
>>>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
>> while
>>>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
>> provide
>>>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > pid=0&cid=32232&uid=6018&tid=2&5ace617a1886df2ddf545d417a7b10
>> b9@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>>
>>>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
>> grandmother was
>>>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>>>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
>> Juana
>>>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>>>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
>> trees on
>>>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
>> and
>>>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
>> Juana
>>>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
>> document
>>>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
>> Leon
>>>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>>>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
>> own a
>>>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
>> Revised
>>>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
>> for
>>>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
>> while
>>>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
>> provide
>>>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
>>>> From: Emilie Garcia
>>>> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's
>> ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Research on behalf
>> of M Vallazza
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
>>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
>>>> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name
>> is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and
>> they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those
>> are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have
>> always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Emilie
>>>>>
>>>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Research on behalf
>> of Joseph Puentes
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
>>>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_
>> diminutives_of_given_names
>>>>
>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>>
>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ...> nuestrosranchos.org/>
>>>>> www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots
>> in Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and
>> Aguascalientes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of Research Digest, Vol 133, Issue 22
>>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

My cousins still call me Millie, instead of Mili (Mee-Lee). I hate Millie. My sister hates Licha.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of Consuelo Udave
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 10:30 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names

Actually, I acquired the nickname of "Connie" when I was very young...not really sure where that particular name came from (born & grew up in 99% Anglo community)? When I was 25, I was determined to be called by my real name (since I had negative associations with "Connie", for a number of reasons). After a few years, I was able to get my immediate family members to switch over...even my parents! However...to this day, I have some cousins & childhood friends who still call me by that old nickname! Some habits are just difficult to erase....SIGH!

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
> Consuelo,
>
> Nicknames are very subjective, subject to the whims of each family. I have
> friends with a Josefina, one is known as Pina and the other is known as
> Chepina, each from a different family.
>
> In my own family, my nephew Roberto is still to this day called Tito. When
> he was a baby we'd all call him Robertito, which was shortened to "Tito"
>
> I being Alicia have been called at times Licha, that's what my mother in
> law called me and while I'm not crazy about the nickname, I know she
> shortened my name with love, so that made it special.
>
> And of course your name is lovingly known as Chelo, my husband has a niece
> Consuelo and she's mostly known as Chelo or Chela.
>
> My oldest sister's name is Liduvina. Her kindergarten teacher couldn't
> pronounce her name and began to call her Lucy, she's been Lucy ever since
> kindergarten and although she wants to take back her name of Liduvina, it's
> too late, the whole world knows her as Lucy.
>
> Nicknames aren't always shortened, sometimes they are lengthened as in
> Maria to "Mariquita" my husband is quite often called "Juanito" rather than
> Juan because of his short stature and because it's a term of endearment.
>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Consuelo Udave wrote:
>>
>> Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
>> (Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
>> This is my cousin's nickname.....
>>
>> Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced:
>> "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)
>>
>> Consuelo Udave
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for
>> decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I
>> saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it
>> would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from
>> Josefina to Chepa, though.
>>>
>>> Darlene
>>> Yorba Linda, CA
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Send Research mailing list submissions to
>>>> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-
>> nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>> DAILY DIGEST
>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>>>> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>>>> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > pid=0&cid=32231&uid=6018&tid=2&fc0e6971220d3d240ca8b3a58d12ea
>> 8b@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>>
>>>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
>> grandmother was
>>>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>>>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
>> Juana
>>>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>>>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
>> trees on
>>>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
>> and
>>>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
>> Juana
>>>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
>> document
>>>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
>> Leon
>>>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>>>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
>> own a
>>>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
>> Revised
>>>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
>> for
>>>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
>> while
>>>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
>> provide
>>>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > pid=0&cid=32232&uid=6018&tid=2&5ace617a1886df2ddf545d417a7b10
>> b9@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>>
>>>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great
>> grandmother was
>>>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>>>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and
>> Juana
>>>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>>>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous
>> trees on
>>>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon
>> and
>>>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for
>> Juana
>>>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a
>> document
>>>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de
>> Leon
>>>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>>>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I
>> own a
>>>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and
>> Revised
>>>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks
>> for
>>>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner
>> while
>>>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to
>> provide
>>>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
>>>> From: Emilie Garcia
>>>> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> > namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's
>> ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Research on behalf
>> of M Vallazza
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
>>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
>>>> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name
>> is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and
>> they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those
>> are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have
>> always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Emilie
>>>>>
>>>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Research on behalf
>> of Joseph Puentes
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
>>>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_
>> diminutives_of_given_names
>>>>
>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>>
>>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary> wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_names>
>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any
>> Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending
>> to '-ito' for ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ...> nuestrosranchos.org/>
>>>>> www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>>>> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots
>> in Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and
>> Aguascalientes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of Research Digest, Vol 133, Issue 22
>>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
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Comentario

My husband says the nickname for Josefina in Spanish (and Italian) is "Fina". For Consuelo it is "Chello", and for Isavel it is Chavela.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of Consuelo Udave
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 8:49 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names

Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
(Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
This is my cousin's nickname.....

Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced: "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)

Consuelo Udave

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
>
>
> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from Josefina to Chepa, though.
>
> Darlene
> Yorba Linda, CA
>
>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 3:10 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>>
>> Send Research mailing list submissions to
>> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…

Research -- Nuestros Ranchos Resarch List
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Your email address: Your name (optional): You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild security, but should prevent others from messing with ...

>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
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>> research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
>>
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>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> DAILY DIGEST
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>> 2. Ponce de Leon (rvr_jr@msn.com)
>> 3. Re: Names (Emilie Garcia)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:18 -0800 (PST)
>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
>> From: rvr_jr@msn.com
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ponce de Leon
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Peredo, This is also an area of interest to me. My 8th great grandmother was
>> Maria de Sandobal, born about 1685 in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman,
>> Zacatecas, Mexico. She was the daughter of Francisco de Sandobal and Juana
>> Ponce (Ponze, Ponse), born about 1660-65. My family tree has a well
>> documented line back to Juana. Having said that, there are numerous trees on
>> Ancestry.com that have Juana as the daughter of Catalina Ponce de Leon and
>> back to the famous explorer. I have never found a Baptism record for Juana
>> and thus can't confirm that relationship. If someone can provide a document
>> to prove the link, I would be the 15 great grandson of Juan Ponce de Leon
>> This link is an example of one of those posted family trees:
>> http://person.ancestry.com/tree/28477012/person/12491890250/facts I own a
>> copy of John J. Browne Ayes' book: Juan Ponce de Leon - His New and Revised
>> Genealogy. I'll look to see if there is any mention of Hernan. Thanks for
>> bringing this question to the forefront as I had it on the back burner while
>> focusing on my maternal Italian line. Regards, Roy I'd be happy to provide
>> the remainder of Juan Ponce (Ponze)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 02:40:23 +0000
>> From: Emilie Garcia
>> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Research on behalf of M Vallazza
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>
>> Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
>> or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>>>
>>>
>>> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>>>
>>>
>>> Emilie
>>>
>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
>>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>>>
>>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…

Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org
This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...

>>
>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary

Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org
This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...

>> en.wiktionary.org
>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>>
>> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
>> en.wiktionary.org
>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> en.wiktionary.org
>>> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> Nuestros Ranchos | Genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas and ...
>>> www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>>> Discussion forums or those actively searching for genealogical roots in Mexico, focused on the "ranchos" of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Hola, neighbor Emilie,

Thanks for this information! That explains where the nickname “Chave” came from…! Short version of Chavela!
I have wondered about that name for decades…nuther mystery uncovered!

Consuelo

Bremerton, WA

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> My husband says the nickname for Josefina in Spanish (and Italian) is "Fina". For Consuelo it is "Chello", and for Isavel it is Chavela.
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> _______________________________
> From: Research > on behalf of Consuelo Udave >
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 8:49 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuestros Ranchos-Names
>
> Have you ever heard of the nickname for Isabel....as "Chave"?
> (Pronounced: "Cha"-same as in "cha cha".....and "ve"-as in "veh").
> This is my cousin's nickname.....
>
> Also, my mother told me my nickname would be "Cello"...(pronounced: "Ch-ello"...sounds same as the name of the musical instrument)
>
> Consuelo Udave
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Feb 26, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Darlene wrote:
>>
>>
>> The list of names answered a question that my cousins and I have had for decades about our aunt's nickname, 'Cheva'. Her real name is Josefina. I saw that the nickname for Josefina is "Chepa". I can see how easily it would be to substitute the "p" for a "v". I wonder how you get from Josefina to Chepa, though.
>>
>> Darlene
>> Yorba Linda, CA

Help with parents names

Published by dcalonso –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone tell me what the parents names are on this marriage for Juan Almirante and Dolores Valenzuela:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6X2S-991

Comentarios

Comentario

His parents: Simon and Maria Porras.
This information is from the christening record of his daughter Maria de los Dolores Antonia Regina christened Sept. 7 1821.
You can find this record in same film. It starts in image 72 right side, bottom.

Regards,

Comentario

Thanks for this, Joseph,

It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…

Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org
This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...

Comentario

But remember this was only a portion of nicknames. Margarita's nickname of Mague was not listed nor Chayo or Challo for Rosario to name two.

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>
>
> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…
>
> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
> en.wiktionary.org
> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>
>
>
>

Comentario

Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>
>
> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…
>
> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
> en.wiktionary.org
> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>
>
>
>

Comentario

I don't see my nickname --- Mili ---for Emilia. I see my sister's ---Licha---for Alicia. She hates being called Licha.

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of M Vallazza
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names

Sorry, hadn't noticed the second nickname for Rosario. Tita for Marta
or any name that is shortened with ita or Ito. My hubster' first name is Mario and his childhood nickname is Mayito. Marge

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 24, 2017, at 18:04, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> Thanks for this, Joseph,
>
>
> It will come in handy when people ask me to do their family tree and they submit a list comprised of only "nicknames". I tell them that those are nicknames, what is their real name? And they don't know---"we have always called her 'Chayo', they say. Now I know what it really is.
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of Joseph Puentes
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 3:34 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Names
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Spanish_diminutives_of_given_na…

Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org
This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...

>
> Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary

Appendix:Spanish diminutives of given names - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org
This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...

> en.wiktionary.org
> This is a list of hypocoristics for Spanish given names. Almost any Spanish name can have a hypocoristic formed by adding/changing the ending to '-ito' for ...
>
>
>
>

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Sáb, 2016-06-11 12:25 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

It seems like they don't give parents names for most of these records, but in this one they do mention the father of the bride. I think it says:
"Da. Ma. Dolores Valenzuela hija legma. del difto. D. Jph. Grego. Valenzuela con el Soldo. de esta compa. Juan Almirante. Fueron testigos ....",
Without abbreviations:
"Doña Maria Dolores Valenzuela hija legitima del difunto Don Joseph Gregorio Valenzuela con el soldado de esta compañía Juan Almirante. Fueron testigos ....".
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro.

Comentario

For me it is difficult to read but it seems the only name I could decipher is hija legitima de Joseph Gregorio Valenzuela con -(Sec'do) del Santisima Concepcion Juan Almirano. - not quite sure what this means.

But in the beginning it names those testigos, but it doesn't seem to name a mother or his parents to me.

Comentario

Hi,
Are you asking what it says in Spanish? If so it is saying
"Legitimate daughter of Joseph Gregoro Valenzuela (fathers name) with
(second) Santisima Conception Juan Almirano (name of what reads to be her
mother -her mother's name is long. Now i'm not 100% fluent in Spanish but I
hope this can help some. Maybe others can help as well. ☺
On Jun 11, 2016 2:29 PM, wrote:

> For me it is difficult to read but it seems the only name I could decipher
> is
> hija legitima de Joseph Gregorio Valenzuela con -(Sec'do) del Santisima
> Concepcion Juan Almirano. - not quite sure what this means. But in the
> beginning it names those testigos, but it doesn't seem to name a mother or
> his parents to me.
>

Comentario

Thank you Sarod, Donna and Victoriano. This is very helpful to me. I
appreciate all your help.

Danny C. Alonso

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 11:29 AM, wrote:

> For me it is difficult to read but it seems the only name I could decipher
> is
> hija legitima de Joseph Gregorio Valenzuela con -(Sec'do) del Santisima
> Concepcion Juan Almirano. - not quite sure what this means. But in the
> beginning it names those testigos, but it doesn't seem to name a mother or
> his parents to me.
>

Senegalese DNA

Published by Katrina –
Foros
Genealogy Research

My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2017-02-12 14:20 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

The (USA) colonies did not have slavery until three indentured servants decided to run away. Of The three indentured servants, two were white and one was black. The three were caught and put on trial. The two white men had their time extended. The black man was punished more severely and was sentenced to be a slave for life. The black man was married to a white woman. Their grandchildren passed as white as they were only one fourth black. The descendants blended into white families. This first slave is an ancestor to Obamas white mother. So The first Black president of the USA descended through his white mother's side from the first black slave here in the colonies that became the USA.

Comentario

Hello Katrina,

It’s funny that you mention this … my father always told us we were Espanoles … Boy what a surprise when I started to do genealogy research! And even more surprised when we did the DNA testing.

In answer to your question. I have had some luck in tracing back to Mulatos and Esclavos Negros. Unfortunately, they eventually end in roadblocks since at some point you end up with a couple that has no surname. Simply slaves that belonged to someone. No way to find out where they came from or even know if you are dealing with the same couple. Having said that, I was surprised at how far back some of these lines can be traced.

Maybe someone else can give you better information. Good luck.

-Angelina-
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Katrina Link wrote:
>
> My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing their African ancestry in Mexico.
> Katrina Link

Comentario

Katrina and Angelina

This is very interesting that this came up because Ive been reading and going through records all day for information about slaves and slavery because im writing a paper about slavery in Mexico in a couple of weeks. in my own ancestors ive seen mulatos and mulatos libres but havent yet come across esclavos but im guessing if someone was a mulato libre at some point they were probly a mulato esclavo. Im trying to find that point and also document who the slaves and slave owners are to see if connections can be made to locate their ancestors. You mentioned that Senegal was the most common African DNA but I'm wondering if thats the most common in nueva galicia. I don't know because ive only been reading about it today. But I know that the early records in aguascalientes seem to show most Africans brought to Mexico we're from places like Angola and the Congo or places like Santo Tomé which are all in the south west of Africa. The Senegal slave trade was controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch until the late 1600s when the French took over Senegal. Senegal is in the northwest coast of Africa. My guess is the senegal people were brought to a different part of Mexico but i really dont know. lookin at my relatives that have taken a DNA
test ive seen Mali, Benin, Togo and Ghana which is pretty close to Senegal, but no actual Senegal at least in my own family. I'd be curious to know from the people that really know DNA where in Africa the majority of the DNA in nueva galicia comes from. Also, does anyone know what the differences are, if there are any, between slavery in America and slavery in Mexico

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hi Katrina,

Do you have a tree or a list of ancestors that you're stuck on? It's possible that they've already been documented by members of the group. Also, I agree with Danny that, at least when their location is mentioned, that the first groups of slaves seem to be always mentioned from Angola, Terra Nova, Santo Tome and the Congo.

and Danny,

I'm glad to see you're incorporating genealogy into your coursework, I've done that too. Although, presently where I am in my studies I rarely have time for genealogy or anything else. And, regarding the differences, I'm not sure there are any differences that matter to the slaves. I think slavery in colonial Mexico was at times as brutal as it was in the US. I've enclosed some pdf's for you to review, the first one especially shows the brutality of slavery in Mexico. The only difference I can see between slavery in the southern US and slavery in Mexico would be cultural and religious. Cultural in the sense, that besides, being enslaved and having an alien culture imposed against your will, there would also be a difference between the Anglo culture of Alabama, Georgia, etc., and the Spanish culture of Nueva Galicia. Although, again, that probably doesn't matter to the slaves. The religious differences might be more meaningful but it's hard to know for sure. I know that there are hundreds of records where slaves are baptized and married, including marrying non-slaves. I can't imagine that being encouraged or even allowed in the southern states, particularly among non-slaves, so the Sacraments may in some way change the dynamic between the slaves of the southern states and those in Mexico. I think the second article may cover that and if your paper is one of those "compare and contrast" papers then that maybe a subject worth exploring. It's an interesting subject to cover, I don't think much has been written about it. Let me know how it comes out.

Here's some pdf articles about slavery in Mexico:

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/slavery/TA-1969.pdf

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~tochtli/Colonial%20Mexico.pdf

Chris

Comentario

Thank you Chris this looks like good information. I reaaly appreciate it.an i think thats a good idea to focus on religion differences and stuff like that.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny I don't remember where I read it but (a Priest stated this) it was stated that children were not born a slave etc...in Mexico

while in the U.S. A child of an enslaved mother would be born into slavery, regardless if the father were a freeborn ...(this is from wikipedia)

Comentario

I have seen evidence in Mexico that the child was given the status of the mother regardless of that of the father. I’ve seen many “testamentos” that list young slaves born from slave mothers. Since they were considered property, most documents state how the slave was acquired. Some even have detailed instructions on what is to become of the slave upon death of the owner.

However, I do believe that slavery was outlawed in Mexico before the US even thought about it. This was probably because there was a large enough native population that could be used as a labor force and did not need to import slaves.

-Angelina-

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 7:49 AM, sarod77@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Danny I don't remember where I read it but (a Priest stated this) it was
> stated that children were not born a slave etc...in Mexico while in the U.S.
> A child of an enslaved mother would be born into slavery, regardless if the
> father were a freeborn ...(this is from wikipedia)
>

Comentario

Hi Angelina,

Hope you are well. As usual, you are correct, the condition of the mother always determines the condition of the child. If the mother is a slave, the child is always a slave and if the mother is free, the child is always free. That's a universal principle that dates back to Ancient Rome. 

Chris

Comentario

This is turning out to be an interesting subject.

I was thinking that the Northern African DNA could actually come from the Spaniards themselves. After all, parts of the Iberian Peninsula were under Moor control and … The Romans ventured into both the Iberian peninsula and Africa, they could also have brought in Northern Africans into the Spain.

My DNA showed both Northern and Southern African DNA. In my paper trail it was clear that lines in my mother’s family came from African Slaves I assume that would be Southern African. However, my father’s family were actually “Espanoles” with only one line that had indigenous blood and another that vaguely referred to “moriscos”. So where did the Northern African DNA come from?

-Angelina-
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:36 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
> Katrina and Angelina
>
> This is very interesting that this came up because Ive been reading and
> going through records all day for information about slaves and slavery
> because im writing a paper about slavery in Mexico in a couple of weeks. in
> my own ancestors ive seen mulatos and mulatos libres but havent yet come
> across esclavos but im guessing if someone was a mulato libre at some point
> they were probly a mulato esclavo. Im trying to find that point and also
> document who the slaves and slave owners are to see if connections can be
> made to locate their ancestors. You mentioned that Senegal was the most
> common African DNA but I'm wondering if thats the most common in nueva
> galicia. I don't know because ive only been reading about it today. But I
> know that the early records in aguascalientes seem to show most Africans
> brought to Mexico we're from places like Angola and the Congo or places
> like Santo Tomé which are all in the south west of Africa. The Senegal
> slave trade was controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch until the late 1600s
> when the French took over Senegal. Senegal is in the northwest coast of
> Africa. My guess is the senegal people were brought to a different part of
> Mexico but i really dont know. lookin at my relatives that have taken a DNA
> test ive seen Mali, Benin, Togo and Ghana which is pretty close to Senegal,
> but no actual Senegal at least in my own family. I'd be curious to know
> from the people that really know DNA where in Africa the majority of the
> DNA in nueva galicia comes from. Also, does anyone know what the
> differences are, if there are any, between slavery in America and slavery
> in Mexico
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 6:45 PM Angelina wrote:
>
>> Hello Katrina,
>>
>> It’s funny that you mention this … my father always told us we were
>> Espanoles … Boy what a surprise when I started to do genealogy research!
>> And even more surprised when we did the DNA testing.
>>
>> In answer to your question. I have had some luck in tracing back to
>> Mulatos and Esclavos Negros. Unfortunately, they eventually end in
>> roadblocks since at some point you end up with a couple that has no
>> surname. Simply slaves that belonged to someone. No way to find out where
>> they came from or even know if you are dealing with the same couple. Having
>> said that, I was surprised at how far back some of these lines can be
>> traced.
>>
>> Maybe someone else can give you better information. Good luck.
>>
>> -Angelina-
>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Katrina Link wrote:
>>>
>>> My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter
>> tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website
>> and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use
>> this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my
>> children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in
>> the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the
>> Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing
>> their African ancestry in Mexico.
>>> Katrina Link
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>

Comentario

theres so much good information here. this is so intersting. this will
definitely make a good paper and until i started looking into this subject
i had no idea that Mexico even ended slavery before america. i wonder why
they realized slavery was wrong so much earlier

Danny C. Alonso

>
>

Comentario

Well, maybe I misspoke. I believe technically what was outlawed was the importation of slaves. If memory serves, the native populations were pretty much considered property of the land owners. Therefore, while they were not importing black slaves a form of slavery did exist in Mexico for a very long time.

It should be a very interesting topic to research.

Good Luck.

-Angelina-

Comentario

Hola Katrina:

El apellido Rodríguez es muy común en México y otros países, hay muchas líneas. Yo he estudiado dos líneas:

Rodríguez de orígen portugués establecidos en México y dedicados al tráfico de esclavos de Cabo Verde (frente a Senegal).

Rodríguez ligados a la familia Ramírez de Coy en Huelva, zona de tráfico de esclavos en el siglo XVI, llevaron negros a sus minas y haciendas.

Podrías investigar un poco sobre la familia Rodríguez para saber si proviene de alguna de estas líneas.
Podrías ver en Youtube WDYTYA by African Historical Archive sobre la esclavitud.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

I was tracking the Rolon Family is Jalisco but found they were not my family after all but they were very interesting in that in the mid 1600's they are listed as Mestiso, then the line goes to Mulato Libre then one had a child with a slave, that child became a Mulato Esclavo then that child married a Mestisa and their child was Mulato Libre and so on..
~
Marriage: 24 June 1738 in Zapotlan El Grande, Jalisco
Georje Rolon Mulato Esclavo from Hacienda de Santa Catharina
Natural son of Lucas Rolon deceased and Gertrudis Antonia
With: Maria Gertrudis Carmona Mestiza from Zapotlan
Parents: Antonio Carmona and Martina de Orzua
Pad: Anttonio Rolon and Mathiana Padilla
Wit: Francisco Vasquez and Antonia Basques
source: 0281944 film
1666-1761
batch: M604544
.

Comentario

I found that slaves were freed in 1824 and completely abolished in 1829 so it probly was started with independence but was that the reason for it ending or was there other reasons if anyone knows. was there an abolition movement like in America or did they just realize it was wrong and want to stop it before the other countries.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hello everyone,

I'd like to add to this discussion. So my mother is a Torres from Michoacan, and growing up she'd always asserted her European lineage as she was a light skinned Mexican, so too was her mother.

About 2 years ago I got her ethnic composition done, and to our collective surprise she has 6% African from Nigeria and Cameroon, very close to Congo. She is also 7% East Asian and 7% Middle Eastern from Nigeria. Finally, 23% is Indian. Her European is 57%.

So I next tested her Mitochondrial DNA and that came back with her female line coming from a European Haplo Group - so it would turn out that all that mixing came from mother and fathers among her paternal lines.

I have not begun to dig that deep into the records but I would be thrilled to find out who these recent ancestors were.

Gil

Comentario

I believe Angelina is right that slavery was abolished in Mexico long
before the US, I think about the same time Mexico gained independence in
the 1820's. But, not sure about the reasons, but, guessing Angelina is
right about indigenous labor. In response to Gil, I also was very surprised
when I did my DNA a couple years back. It wasn't anything like I would've
expected. 100% of my ancestors are from Mexico and I felt my DNA
results didn't reflect that. My results were: 6% North African, 1% African
South Central Hunter Gatherers, 19% Native American, 6% East Asian, 23%
Iberian Peninsula, 11% Europe West, 11% Italy/Greece, 6% Great Britain, 3%
Scandinavia, 3% European Jewish, 3% Ireland and 8% Middle East. To me those
results don't seem very Mexican which I was a little disappointed by.
Although, I guess it reflects the diversity that exists in Mexico. I
suppose I was hoping for more Native and Spanish.

Paige

Comentario

Paige,

I believe your DNA tests are in line with European heritage. Spain has a rich history that explains all your markers. The Romans expanded through Spain into Africa opening the door to peoples from their entire empire. Jews spread throughout Europe. Goths were there even before the Romans. The Goths themselves were conquering bands of warriors that could have easily brought Asian DNA into the Iberian Peninsula. It really comes to no surprise the diversity of DNA that came to Mexico and mixed with the Native American population.

By the way, my DNA breakdown is almost exactly like yours. You have a little more Italian and a little less Jewish. What took me by surprise was the Scandinavian. It looks like our ancestors covered the whole world :)

-Angelina-

Comentario

Angelina,

I definitely agree that Mexican DNA is very diverse. Far more diverse than
I would've thought. But, something you said makes me wonder whether all
African DNA is from Mexican slavery. Something you said about the Moors
that conquered parts of Spain makes me question whether all African DNA
that shows up in Mexico is necessarily from slavery. Presumably, the Moors
carry some small amount of central and southern African DNA, I would guess.
Obviously, most of us have come across a record that indicates a person was
a mulato, so clearly some comes from Mexico, but, could it be that some of
our African DNA actually originates in Spain and not Mexico. Has there been
any studies that show whether the Spanish from Spain carry any small amount
of African DNA?

Paige

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017, Angelina wrote:

> Paige,
>
> I believe your DNA tests are in line with European heritage. Spain has a
> rich history that explains all your markers. The Romans expanded through
> Spain into Africa opening the door to peoples from their entire empire.
> Jews spread throughout Europe. Goths were there even before the Romans. The
> Goths themselves were conquering bands of warriors that could have easily
> brought Asian DNA into the Iberian Peninsula. It really comes to no
> surprise the diversity of DNA that came to Mexico and mixed with the Native
> American population.
>
> By the way, my DNA breakdown is almost exactly like yours. You have a
> little more Italian and a little less Jewish. What took me by surprise was
> the Scandinavian. It looks like our ancestors covered the whole world :)
>
> -Angelina-
>

Comentario

Hi Paige,

I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know exactly how
far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the impression
these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the impression of no more than
8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person being tested. While I have
not identified who my mother's founding family were in Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it
had been my assumption that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative
DNA from no more than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better understanding of the ethnic test.

Gil

Comentario

Hi Gil,

I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
or I'm more African than that.

Paige

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017, wrote:

> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
> exactly
> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
> impression
> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
> being
> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>

Comentario

All of the DNA companies have a different reference database to compare customers' DNA to and they also use different methodologies in creating their calculators which in turn creates many different results even for the same person getting tested at all three companies. All of that is different from what the geneticists use for the studies that they publish which I will get into later. The different companies will also state how far back in time the test is reporting the ethnicity from but that timeframe is just a general estimate and not a definite timeframe.

I can tell which company a person has tested with based on the names of the categories or ethnic groups and I can tell that Paige tested with AncestryDNA because of the Italy/Greece category and the British being separated from Irish. At 23andme the results would be different and there would not be any Greek because they call it Balkan and that does not show up in Spaniards or Mexicans. If she were to get any Italian it would just be a small amount. Spaniards also get Italian at 23andme in a small amount so the Italian in Mexico is mostly from Spaniards. British & Irish also shows up at 23andme in Spaniards at up to 7% even when they from as far south as Andalusia. Italians and British also get some Iberian so I associate their Iberian and the Italian and British & Irish in Spaniards as very old DNA from the pre-historical period that has persisted in the DNA handed down through many different ancestors. Spaniards and Latin Americans get a lot more Iberian at 23andme compared to AncestryDNA which aligns well with documented history of Mexico and Spain so I like the 23andme test more. 23andme might not do as good with North African or West African DNA in Spaniards since it is so low in them. The North African DNA in Spaniards is higher with FamilyTreeDNA but there is no way to know which company is more accurate for now. AncestryDNA is also the only company that separates African DNA into a lot of regions such as Senegal, Nigeria and so on.

The study of Mexicans by Andrés Moreno-Estrada et al. in the Carlos D. Bustamente lab of Stanford included Spaniards in an admixture test which showed that Spaniards do have a small percentage of African DNA. If you zoom in on the picture at https://d2ufo47lrtsv5s.cloudfront.net/content/sci/344/6189/1280/F2.larg… you can see Andalucian, Galician, and Spanish with other Europeans and they have just a little less African, represented by the color green, than Portuguese and about the same as Italians. Almost all of the Cosmopolitan Mexican populations have more African (green) than the Spanish and maybe about same or a little more than Portuguese.

The autosomal DNA for matching with cousin does disappear in most cases within 5 or 6 generations but is retained in some cases for more generations. The amount of DNA needed for matching is greater than the DNA needed for determining shared ethnicity with populations so they really are two different things and should be looked at differently as far as inheritance.

Saludos,
Armando

Comentario

Hi Armando,

Yes! It was an AncestryDNA test. In your opinion, if I've already taken Ancestry do you recommend taking another one at 23andme or maybe take all three? Is there any benefit? Just curious. Also, is there some type of conversion from one test to another, such as, if I have a certain amount of Italy/Greek and 23andme doesn't have Greek, would it just show up as more Iberian? And, thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us. Unfortunately, I know nothing about DNA.

Paige

Comentario

Hello Paige,

I do recommend getting another test with 23andme. The Italy/Greek will show up as more Iberian, Broadly Southern European, and some Italian but as I had posted before that small amount of Italian is found in many Spaniards. I think that it is beneficial to see a more accurate breakdown of the ethnicity. That way it doesn't cause people to think that they have a recent Italian ancestor like two posters at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23548 and http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23733

Recently a person from Mexico that had 27% Italy/Greece and only 12% Iberian Peninsula on AncestryDNA got 28.4% Iberian, 24% Broadly Southern European, and 2.4% Italian. The 23andme results are much more in line with documented ancestry of Mexico. The difference in total African ancestry was only 3.3% with 7% at Ancestry and 3.7% at 23andme. I mentioned that since this thread is for the African ancestry.

Yesterday FTDNA started a $19 transfer from AncestryDNA at https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer. I would try it out since it is so cheap and there is supposedly an upcoming update to the ethnicity calculator called myOrigins. It really needs an update since it is worst than AncestryDNA.

Armando

Comentario

Armando, I did order the MTDNA. The process at FamilyTree was really confusing and no one to tell you how the whole process works.

When I received the results, I went through many different pages to understand the results I found nothing. A match emailed me and she had no Idea what the numbers really meant on the left 0, 1, 2, 3. she thought it meant we were super closely related. I finally called and spoke to a rep who said they mean nothing I asked more questions that my matched had stated that the Haplogroup was rare, since I hadn't found an explanation I doubted that statement and ask the Rep. He said Family Tree does not provide that INFO but that the whole world would have to be tested to know that. This I found unbelievable as in many studies there are targeted areas, people, causes etc. and an either blind, double-blind, and control groups, to come to a conclusion like the recent one about coffee in the news today.

The final problem I felt was that I read their privacy statement in that one owns the pictures and documents created on Family Tree, but the rest belongs to Family Tree. This might be true of other sites, I just did not read before so it now has me thinking. I wonder are these tests only used to further those who are looking for something particular like scientists, or administrators to prove something. (the rep said scientists and others but the test was not really for regular people, this is what I understood from what he said).

I am hoping you have a more optimistic view on why the Y(male) test and MtDNA(female)test would help us all.

Thanks!

Comentario

Hello Simona,

The mtDNA test results can be confusing for some people since there is so much info in the learning center and elsewhere about mtDNA. The numbers on the left with 0, 1, 2, 3 are the Genetic Distance. A 0 means that it is an exact match without any additional mutations in yourself or your match. Most of the time a GD of 1 more means that the match is not from a genealogical timeframe but there seems to be a problem with the reporting system right now and I have found new mutations in lineages less than 500 years old when multiple people with the same ancestor have tested which means that a GD of 1 can be genealogically relevant.

What is your haplogroup? I can try to be of more assistance if you can provide me with that. There are sites such as http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/haplogroup_select.htm or studies such as the one at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322232/ that have information that FTDNA helpdesk isn't going to spend time pointing you to or explaining what they mean even though that study used samples from the FTDNA database.

Most of the people in the FTDNA database have ancestry from the British Isles so that is where most of the mtDNA haplogroups that they have info on are from. Using Full mtDNA for population studies is something that is relatively recent so there aren't many studies that have those results. There are a lot of factors to consider for what study will have enough samples and the one on coffee does have enough samples but I have no idea what those factors are. I don't think that geneticists have a lot of money for population studies of mtDNA which is the most important factor. I'm not even sure that FTDNA has included any of the studies results into it's database either. It's using build 14 of Phylotree according to http://www.phylotree.org/index.htm and the latest build is 17 http://www.phylotree.org/index.htm

The ownership statement that you mentioned is the following -

"You retain ownership in Personal Information and content such as photos, videos, posts, and comments submitted by you (collectively, “User Submitted Content”) to Family Tree DNA and its websites. You hereby grant Family Tree DNA a world-wide, transferable, royalty-free, irrevocable, and perpetual license to host, display, sub-license, distribute, recreate, modify, or use such User Submitted Content in any form, to any extent, or within any context Family Tree DNA deems necessary to promote, modify, or develop its services. This license continues even if you stop using Family Tree DNA’s services."

I don't know of anyone ever complaining of any of their content being used anywhere so I am not sure why that is there. There aren't many pictures on the FTDNA site to begin with. You might want to call FTDNA to see what that is about and how it could affect you.

When you asked me about mtDNA testing previous this was my response at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23747 -

"The mtDNA test would be unlikely to resolve the issue that you mentioned but it tell you if your direct maternal line is Native American, European, Africa, or of another origin. You might even find matches that are significant but the likelihood is very low."

I meant to include could in between it tell. So after correcting that I meant that "The mtDNA test would be unlikely to resolve the issue that you mentioned but it [could] tell you if your direct maternal line is Native American, European, Africa, or of another origin. You might even find matches that are significant but the likelihood is very low." So I was trying to convey that using mtDNA for other than trying to determine the regional origin was unlikely to be helpful but the possibility still existed.

Y-DNA matching is also based on how many people are in the database and I had mentioned that too with my response of -

"With Y-DNA you have more of a chance of finding a match to someone with well documented ancestry if you test a male from the lineage that you mentioned. So your father, a male sibling, an uncle, or a close cousin would have to get the test. You can order the test and have it sent to the address of the tester if you don't live near them. Not everyone has matches though but as more people test the chances increase. We still need a lot of people to be tested. So we would be pleased if you were to participate."

What can and can't be said of a person's DNA is based on their DNA result and the people in the database. No one knows about their DNA until they get tested. If you do get tested you are allowing an opportunity to learn more about yourself. I don't think of that as a pessimistic view but more as an optimistic view since it is an opportunity. If I were pessimistic I would have said don't bother testing because you probably won't learn anything that you care about.

Comentario

Thank you for your thoughtful response. From the time I submitted my questions to you, the person who is my exact match sent me some interesting information that addressed some of my important questions. You have answered the rest. Having worked on my family line for what seems like forever, every bit of information I can get is truly appreciated.

Comentario

Dear Armando,

After over forty years of genealogy research, I am finally going to get my DNA tested. What company and tests do you recommend?

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Paige,
Re the Irish DNA, that could be the case. Conversely, Re the African DNA, you need to remember that you only inherit 50% of each parent's DNA. One of you siblings might have more African DNA than you, if you know what I mean. What you have is no contradictory information.

Comentario

One of my Mexican ancestresses, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio, (isn't that a beautiful name?) is labeled a mestiza on her birth entry kept by the Roman Catholic Church in Jerez, Zacatecas. I would have no reason to question it except that, according to Record 947, p. 173, of the Sagrada Mitra by Luz Montejano Hilton, a dispensation of the third level of consanguity in her parents marriage information states that Cristobal Villavicencio, Spanish gentleman of 24 years, etc., and Phelipa Gertrudis de Chavez, Spanish lady of more than 30 years, etc. If her parents and ancestors are Spanish why was their daughter, Juliana del Carmen, labeled a mestiza? Marge Vallazza. :)

> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:10, Paige Herrera wrote:
>
> Hi Gil,
>
> I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
> in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
> back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
> haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
> picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
> percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
> across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
> or I'm more African than that.
>
> Paige
>
>
>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017, wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
>> exactly
>> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
>> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
>> impression
>> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
>> being
>> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
>> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
>> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
>> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
>> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
>> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>>

Comentario

Hello M Vallanzzo. What you described happens a lot. Remember that “Espanol” doesn’t mean that they have only Iberian Peninsula DNA. Often, the mother was not present at the baptism because it was believed she had to be bedridden for x amount of time and they felt it was critical to have the child baptized as soon as possible just in case it fell ill and passed away. Therefore, one theory is that the priests/scribes depended more on visual assessment of the child when they wrote down the ethnicity of child. With the rich DNA history of Spain, it is obvious that some children may be darker or more ethnic looking than others.

The other more simple explanation should be scribe error.

Regardless of which makes more sense to you. It is very common to find theses contradictory documents.

-Angelina-
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 6:03 PM, M Vallazza wrote:
>
> One of my Mexican ancestresses, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio, (isn't that a beautiful name?) is labeled a mestiza on her birth entry kept by the Roman Catholic Church in Jerez, Zacatecas. I would have no reason to question it except that, according to Record 947, p. 173, of the Sagrada Mitra by Luz Montejano Hilton, a dispensation of the third level of consanguity in her parents marriage information states that Cristobal Villavicencio, Spanish gentleman of 24 years, etc., and Phelipa Gertrudis de Chavez, Spanish lady of more than 30 years, etc. If her parents and ancestors are Spanish why was their daughter, Juliana del Carmen, labeled a mestiza? Marge Vallazza. :)
>
>
>> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:10, Paige Herrera wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gil,
>>
>> I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
>> in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
>> back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
>> haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
>> picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
>> percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
>> across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
>> or I'm more African than that.
>>
>> Paige
>>
>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017, wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
>>> exactly
>>> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
>>> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
>>> impression
>>> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
>>> being
>>> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
>>> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
>>> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
>>> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
>>> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
>>> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Armando

On that picture with the Africans and Europeans and Native Mexicans is the
numbers on the left where it goes from 0.0 up to 1.0 does 1.0 mean 100%?
like if im looking at the small amout of green in Europeans which is less
than 0.2 is that mean their African is under 2% African or under 0.2%
african?

and on the picture with the Native Mexicans they also have a small amount
of green. since the native Mexicans have some green and they have no
contact with africans does that mean everybody has some amount of African
in them.

and if someone was 50% Spanish and 50% Native American is there some dna
company that tells you for your spanish how much Basque or Galicia or
Andalucia and for Native tells you how much Mayan or huichol or other
tribes.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hello Danny,

Yes, 1.0 means 100%. The small amount of green in Europeans which is less
than 0.2 means that their African is under 20% African. It's actually less than half of the portion between 0.0 and 0.2 so they have less than 10%. The top graphs depict each population broken up into 3 colors depicting ancestries. The bottom graph show them broken up in to 9 colors or 9 ancestries. The bottom graph of the Europeans only shows 3 colors (red, maroon, and green) depicting 3 ancestries because that is all the program, called ADMIXTURE, could detect out of the 9 colors (ancestries) but it reduced the green a little. It also reduced it a bit in the Native Mexicans and the Cosmopolitan samples.

Native Mexicans did have contact with Africans in post-Colombian times and that is why there is African in the Native Mexicans. It is higher in the Native Mexicans from Quintana Roo but since it is next to Belize and close to the Caribbean that isn't surprising. The Cosmopolitan Mexicans from Guerrero and Veracruz have the highest amount of African ancestry since they are closest to the ports that had the highest immigration of slaves.

No, not everyone has African DNA. Many of the European population do not have African DNA and many of the Native Mexicans do not have African DNA. It's easier to see if you go to https://pubs.aaas.org/Promo/promo_setup_rd.asp?dmc=P0RFA1 and create an account, if you don't have one, or to https://signin.aaas.org/oxauth/login if you do then once sign in then go to http://science.sciencemag.org/content/344/6189/1280.full.pdf and download the PDF then go to page 3 and zoom in on that graph on the K=9 portion. It is in a higher resolution. Each colored spike that you see is an individual. So for instance in the Basque there are two people with a little bit of African but about 10 others without it.It is completely absent in the German and the Irish population.

No, there aren't any programs that are reliable that can tell you how much Basque, Galician, Andalusian, Mayan, or Huichol DNA you have. Those populations would have to be tested as well as many other populations in Spain and Mexico and then a company would have to implement them into a calculator. It is extremely expensive to get those reference samples and there aren't enough people willing to spend enough to make up for that cost.

Armando

Comentario

Hello everyone,

I'd like to add to this discussion. So my mother is a Torres from Michoacan, and growing up she'd always asserted her European lineage as she was a light skinned Mexican, so too was her mother.

About 2 years ago I got her ethnic composition done, and to our collective surprise she has 6% African from Nigeria and Cameroon, very close to Congo. She is also 7% East Asian and 7% Middle Eastern from Nigeria. Finally, 23% is Indian. Her European is 57%.

So I next tested her Mitochondrial DNA and that came back with her female line coming from a European Haplo Group - so it would turn out that all that mixing came from mother and fathers among her paternal lines.

I have not begun to dig that deep into the records but I would be thrilled to find out who these recent ancestors were.

Gil

Familia Díaz de León Báez

Published by jeantavera –
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Hola!

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Danny!

Actually, I descend from Antonia´s sister, her name was María Vicenta Rafaela Báez Perales and her husband Manuel Ruíz de los Palacios Márquez. But, an Antonia's daughter called Juana María de la Santísima Trinidad Díaz de León Báez was married with another ancestor of mine, his name was José Eduardo López de Bocanegra Ruíz de Esparza who was brother of mine direct ancestor, his name was Fernando Antonio López de Bocanegra Ruíz de Esparza.
I descend from another branch of Díaz de León's family, from Andrés Díaz de León Durón, who was married with María Estefanía Carrillo Díaz de León.
So, anyway I think we are linked some way hehehe... right cousin?

Jean Hänsel Tavera.

GONZALO GOMEZ + RUELAS Y SOTOMAYOR

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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​Hola primos y primas,

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Comentario

this is baptism link to jusepe gaitan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2L-1ZL

I went looking for Maria de Ruelas (L2C5-XJ1 on Familysearch.org, Last July, I had been linking Bobadilla family. When I went back someone had linked Maria de Ruelas to Gonzalo Gomez Cervantes that goes back to the 1200. Around 1300 there is the name sotomayor. There are no sources attach so don't know how credible.

Back to Maria and Joseph and their son Miguel married to arias, they have a son named anastacio (MGMP-ZW7) who marries Francisca Rodriguez (MGMP-ZW7). Francisca's brother Joaquin Rodriguez Herrera (LZ83-L4L) is married to Maria Barbara Martin de las Ruelas

If this is all revisited information, but you would like to know if someone adds to their records just click on the star above their profile and you will get updates on these people if there are any changes.

Comentario

This month I discovered an excellent book: Diccionario biografico de antiguos pobladores de San Luis Potosi 1592-1666 by Rafael Morales Bocardo. The author is the director of the Archivo Historico del Estado de San Luis Potosi. What an amazing source. This book covers the early years when SLP was abuzz with people registering mines (think nearby Pinos), recording documents (think dowries and testaments) and going about their daily activities.

I already had a FGS of Pedro Nieto and Josepha Corona with nine children identified. This book provides more...

NIETO, PEDRO. Originario de la Villa de Linares en los Reinos de Portugal. Hijo legitimo de Hernando de Almeida y de Isabel Hernandez. Casado con Doña Josefa Corona. Vecino de la Sierra de Pinos, Zacatecas, y estante en el pueblo y Minas de San Luis.

El 5 de junio de 1658, ante la fe de Alonso de Pastrana, escribano real, otorgo su testamento en el que nombro por su albacea y heredera a su esposa.

In a few minutes I'll upload my FGS of Nieto Corona to my Dropbox account. Will also upload pages 457 and 458 of the book which includes an Alonso Nieto (cc Francisca de Paz) from SLP.

Mary Lou

Comentario

Mary Lou,

Thank you for suggesting Rafael Morales Bocardo's book - I ordered a copy, and it really helped knock some bricks loose, especially regarding my g8's Juan Lopez de Avila and Mariana de Sosa - I now have her parents (Antonio de San Martin and Maria Gonzalez), which helped me find their marriage record (Juan Lopes con Mariana Gonzalez, 14 Jan 1607, Sag. SLP).

It also gave some interesting clues re: my g8's, Felipe Gaytan and Anna de Castaneda y Loaysa (parents of Jusepe Gaytan, mentioned by Simona, and married to Maria Blanca de Ruelas); RMB gives him the name Felipe Gaytan de Ayala, which is new to me (none of his descendants would use "Ayala," as far as I know), and which links him to that dynasty in Toledo, Spain.

Great resource, lots of info on many of my SLP AND Pinos lines.

THE ELUSIVE BLAS NIETO

The 18 Oct 1626 baptism of Gertrudis, daughter of Blas Nieto and Beatriz Lopez, that you mentioned, is tantalizing especially as the padrinos were Gonzalo Gomez and Ysabel Marin. One really needs to make a trip to San Matias, Sierra de Pinos!

I've found a Blas Nieto cc Margarita Lopez, baptizing 3 children in San Felipe Apostol, San Felipe Gto, between 1634 and 1641. I flagged him, because San Felipe is just down the road from Sierra de Pinos, plus, Juan Gomez Nieto lived in Gto, and one of his daughters married in San Felipe. Could be another son.

There was also Blas Nieto married to Ysabel Perez, who baptized Juan, 27 Oct 1637, Sagrario SLP.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

I had looked for it at Abe's didn't find it so I was about to either order from the University of San Luis Potosi, it was 500. pesos plus 25.00 dls. delivery to the States. Then I thought to ask my cousin who works at one of the University's in San Luis before he retires in May. Thanks Mucho!

Comentario

Hola prim@s,

I believe I just found a piece of the puzzle connecting these two dynasties:

This is the 4 Jul 1679 IM for Jacinto Joseph Diaz and Maria de San Juan Gaitan, married in Sagrario, SLP:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-8C1Z-S?i=621&wc=3NTX-7M3

Maria de San Juan was daughter of Jusepe Gaytan and Maria Blanca de Ruelas.

The first two testigos were Joseph Martin de las Ruelas (30) and Juan Martin (20). I believe they are sons of Joseph Martin de Sotomayor and Anna Vicente Diaz. According to their statements, Joseph and Juan Martin were cousins at 3o degrees with Maria de San Juan Gaitan, establishing a blood link between the Martin de Ruelas and the Gomez de Ruelas (finally!).

From the 1748 IM of Juan Antonio Gaitan and Maria Manuela Muñoz, we know that Maria Blanca de Ruelas was daughter of Gonzalo Gomez, who was son of Blas Nieto; from what we know of the Martin Camacho de Sotomayor, the relationship would look like this:

Maria Ruelas -1-Blas Nieto
Jusepe Martin-2-Gonzalo Gomez
Joseph Martin-3-Maria Blanca
- - - - - - - - - -4-Maria de San Juan

Of course, it’s possible that the relationship is through the Gaitan or the Diaz Medel, but from what we already know about these families, this is the most probable scenario.

It's looking more & more like Maria de las Ruelas, Blas Nieto and Jacinta de Sotomayor are siblings.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hola Prim@s,

Since everything was posted over time (and among the clutter of my theories!), I'll summarize how this relationship is established in a few paragraphs:

In the 9 Jun 1712 dispensa for Nicolas Castañeda cc Maria Gomez, Blas Nieto is named as brother of Jacinta de Sotomayor, and great-grandfather of the bride:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW39-LV?i=489&wc=3J4Z-2NL

Jacinta de Sotomayor-1-Blas Nieto
Nicolas Castañeda-2-Juan Gomez Nieto
Antonio Castañeda-3-Matias Gomez de Sotomayor
Nicolas Castañeda-4-Maria Gomez y Ruiz

In the 15 Jun 1748 IM for Juan Antonio Gaitan cc Maria Manuela Muñoz, we learn that Juan Gomez Nieto aka Juan Gomez de las Ruelas, has a brother named Gonzalo Gomez, who had a daughter named Maria Gomez de las Ruelas (aka Maria Blanca), who married into the Gaytan de Ayala family, of SLP:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BPDG-3?i=572&wc=3PS9-166

(Tronco: Blas Nieto)
Gonzalo Gomez de Ruelas - 1 - Juan Gomez de Ruelas
Maria Blanca Gomez de Ruelas - 2 - Blas Gomez de Ruelas
Miguel Gaitan - 3 - Nicolas Gomez de Soyomayor
Francisco Xavier Gaitan - 4 - Maria Dolores Gomez
Juan Antonio Gaitan - 5 - Maria Manuela Muñoz

In the 4 Jul 1679 IM for Jacinto Joseph Diaz and Maria de San Juan Gaitan, daughter of Maria Blanca Gomez de las Ruelas, we learn that the witnesses, Joseph Martin de las Ruelas and Juan Martin, are at 3 degrees with the bride (2nd-cousins). From what we know of the Martin Camacho de Sotomayor, and what we learned in the previous 2 documents, the relationship would look like this:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-8C1Z-S?i=621&wc=3NTX-7M3

Maria de las Ruelas -1-Blas Nieto
Joseph Martin de Sotomayor-2-Gonzalo Gomez de las Ruelas
Joseph Martin de las Ruelas-3-Maria Blanca Gomez de las Ruelas
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4-Maria de San Juan Gaitan

They were actually at 3-4 with the bride, or 2nd cousins, once removed.

The 3 documents, together, establish that Blas Nieto, Jacinta de Sotomayor, and Maria de las Ruelas were siblings.

Hi Danny, we discussed Nieto earlier in this thread, if you'd like to go back and review.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Manny,

I'm a little confused. My thought is similar to Danny's, I get the Jacinta and Maria relationship, but where does the Nieto fit in? I think all the theories have confused me. Or maybe just the similar names. I descend from Jacinta de Sotomayor, wife of Pedro de Castaneda. At one point, I thought you suggested that she's the daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas, am I reading that right? Or is she a different Jacinta de Sotomayor than the one that is the sister of Maria de las Ruelas, because I thought you mentioned that she's the daughter of Gonzalo Gomez de las Ruelas? And, where does the Nieto come from? I'm confused. Help!

Also, you mentioned that the Castaneda line is well documented, but, I don't have anyone beyond Pedro Castaneda? Do you have his ancestry? And, who are the parents of Jacinta? Sorry Manny.

Paige

Comentario

Hi Paige,

I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question, “why Nieto”? Blas Nieto is mentioned on the Nicolas Castaneda/Maria Gomez dispensa, as brother of Jacinta de Sotomayor. I included a link to the actual document, look at the first page, right image, last 4 lines.

When I said the Castaneda were well-documented, again, I’m sorry, I meant their descendants. I don’t descend from them, but I’ve seen them in Wikitree and discussed in these forums. I don’t know Pedro Castaneda’s origin.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Manny,

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant at one point you say that Jacinta is the daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas, so, does that mean that Blas Nieto is the son of Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas or are Blas and Jacinta the children of Gonzalo Gomez de las Ruelas?

Paige

Comentario

Hi Paige,

We can forget the earlier theories I posted, just pay attention to the above Aug 30 summary:

1. Jacinta de Sotomayor (m. Pedro Castaneda) is sister of Blas Nieto; we still don't know who their parents are (nor who is wife is).

2. Gonzalo Gomez de Ruelas and Juan Gomez de Ruelas (aka Juan Gomez Nieto) were sons of Blas Nieto. The Gaitan descend from Gonzalo Gomez, and the Gomez de Ruelas y Sotomayor, from Juan Gomez.

3. Maria de San Juan Gaitan was granddaughter of Gonzalo Gomez and great-granddaughter of Blas Nieto; her IM names her as 2nd cousin of Joseph and Juan Martin de Ruelas, who we know are sons of Joseph Martin de Sotomayor, who in turn was son of Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas. This links Maria de las Ruelas and Blas Nieto, as shown in the diagram #3.

Thus, Jacinta de Sotomayor (m. Pedro Castaneda), Blas Nieto, and Maria de las Ruelas (m. Andres Martin) are siblings.

Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas had a daughter, also named Jacinta de Sotomayor aka Jacinta de las Ruelas, who was likely named for her tia, and who was married to Antonio Jimenez de Castaneda. That's where a lot of the confusion comes from, since the 2 Jacinta's married Castaneda's. I don't know if Pedro and Antonio are related; I've never seen Pedro use "Jimenez."

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Manny,

I agree this is great research. i was kinda confused by the earlier stuff to but now i see the connection. this Nieto is really an important piece of the puzzle to the early families. now we know that one these Ruelas y Sotomayor married a Nieto. also the Ruelas and Sotomayor must be more important people since they passed that on more than nieto. plus dont we kinda know that the nieto ancestor is a guy since Blas uses Nieto and the girls use Ruelas and Sotomayor, and since Blas's kids use Gomez + Ruelas, dont we kinda know that Blas's wife is somebody Gomez?

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny,

That is super intuitive of you - you’re getting the hang of these shell-game naming practices! I was thinking the same: that “Ruelas” and “Sotomayor” are matrilineal, since they’re used by female descendants, regardless of paternal surname. “Nieto” is likely a paternal surname, and we still don’t know where “Gomez” comes from, since we still don’t know the name of Blas Nieto’s wife (though, she’s likely Beatriz Lopez, with whom baptized a child in Pinos, in 1626).

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hola prim@s,

I believe I have finally found the name of Blas Nieto's wife. This is the marriage record of Santiago Ruiz Collantes and Luisa Gomez de Sotomayor, 27 Dec 1662, Sagrario, SLP. She was daughter of BLAS GOMEZ NIETO and MARGARITA DE LAS ROELAS, vecinos de San Luis, ya difuntos. bottom left:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGLC-3NQ?mode=g&i=111&cc=1…

There is little doubt in my mind that this is Blas Nieto, father of Gonzalo Gomez and Juan Gomez Nieto. This would change what we thought about his relationship to Jacinta de Sotomayor (and Maria de las Ruelas): he wasn't their brother, he was their cuñado! The relationship is obviously through his wife, Margarita de las Ruelas, who would be sister of Jacinta de Sotomayor and Maria de las Ruelas!

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Excellent work Manny..I thought the Nieto surname kind of stuck out. This is the second time in the past two years that a nuestrosranchos member has figured out that a brother was actually a brother in law. I am going to go back with a more critical eye in my records to see if I have more brothers that Could be Brother in laws.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Nor does Gonzalo Gomez de las Ruelas exist! The only reference we have on him is the 15 Jun 1748 IM for Juan Antonio Gaitan and Maria Manuela Munoz, which names him as brother of Juan Gomez Nieto, and father of Maria Blanca de las Ruelas. The tree given looks like this:

TRONCO Blas Gomez Nieto cc Margarita de las Ruelas
Gonzalo Gomez-1-Juan Gomez
Maria Blanca-2-Blas Gomez
Miguel Gaitan-3-Nicolas Gomez
Francisco Xavier Gaytan-4-Maria Dolores Gomez
Juan Antonio Gaitan-5-Maria Manuela Munoz

I've already established that Luisa Gomez de Sotomayor was daughter of Blas Gomez Nieto cc Margarita de las Ruelas. Luisa Gomez had a lot of litigation over her child's inheritance. On 28 Jul 1681, she presented as one of her witnesses, Jusepe Gaytan, husband of Maria Blanca de las Ruelas. At the beginning of his testimony, he identifies himself as "cuñado de Luisa Gomez de Sotomayor." Hence, Maria Blanca is Luisa's sister and NOT her niece, and therefore daughter of Blas Gomez Nieto and Margarita de las Ruelas:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58F-SW82?i=98&cc=2040013

I'm more likely to believe a record written during their lifetimes, rather than one, almost 100 years after!

Revised family tree:

TRONCO Blas Gomez Nieto cc Margarita de las Ruelas
Maria Blanca-1-Juan Gomez
Miguel Gaitan-2-Blas Gomez
Francisco Xavier Gaytan-3-Nicolas Gomez
Juan Antonio Gaitan-4-Maria Dolores Gomez
- - - - - - - - - - -5-Maria Manuela Munoz

That gives us three children for the family group of Blas Gomez Nieto and Margarita de las Ruelas:

a. Juan Gomez Nieto cc Maria Teresa Martin Guerrero
b. Maria Blanca de las Ruelas cc Jusepe Gaytan
c. Luisa Gomez de Sotomayor cc Santiago Ruiz de Collantes

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mié, 2016-02-17 14:39 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hi Danny,

That's a very good question, and one that others have asked. Pedro Nieto is of the "Nieto Corona" clan, which starts with his parents, Pedro Nieto "El Viejo" (b. 1593) and Josefa Corona, both who lived in Pinos. Another clan that used "Nieto" was the Nieto Telles (or Tellez). I've been looking for links, but I've found none.

By the way, if you descend from Pedro Nieto El Mozo, he appears as a witness on numerous IMs in Pinos during the 1660s. You get his age & autograph (his father is the testigo to the left):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-26657-0?cc=1804458&wc=…

Thanks!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

PS And as I look back at my post, I notice I listed the dispensas in the wrong order, in my table of contents. That's what happens when you post from your iphone!

Comentario

Manny,

is the Tello and Telles family the same? cause the genealogist Javier Sanchiz connects the Tello family to Pedro Nieto.

http://gw.geneanet.org/sanchiz?lang=en&p=pedro&n=nieto+tello

My first Nieto is Pedro Nieto Corona who's married to Magdalena Michaela López de la Cerda. He's the Grandson of the Pedro Nieto that's married to Nicolas de Castaneda's daughter.

Danny C. Alonso

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mié, 2016-02-17 15:48 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hi Danny,

That, I wouldn't know. "Telles" (also "Tellez") might be another spelling for "Tello," but it's probably the patronymic. Spanish names that end in "-ez" are usually patronymic, meaning that they denote paternity, i.e., "son of." So, "Sanchez" means "Son of Sancho," "Martinez" means "son of Martin," etc.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Thanks Manny this is good information. That makes me think they might be connected though cause Martin and Martinez seems to be used by the same people like the Martin de Sotomayors and Martinez de Sotomayors

Danny C. Alonso

Analysis: Mexico's missing blacks - Part 3

Published by LasFlores –
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Here is the link to a very interesting article on the Negro in Mexico:http://www.upi.com/Analysis-Mexicos-missing-blacks-Part-3/6062102091027…

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Comentario

Hola a todos:

Resulta muy interesante el artículo recomendado, únicamente puntualizaría que hubo mucha presencia de esclavos africanos en la minas de Guerrero, San Luis Potosí, Guanajuato...

Estoy agregando por separado una lista de apellidos africanos.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Muy interesante artículo. Coincidentemente, mi análisis de ADN autosómico muestra un 5% de ascendencia africana, igual que el promedio de Monterrey, de donde procedo.

Coincido en que el ADN africano se diluyó por los matrimonios mixtos.

Saludos,

Bernardo Menchaca

Godoy Follow-up info

Published by makas_nc –
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Genealogy Research

here is some info on my cousins Godoy family. Please contact me and I'll
put you in touch with him if you see a connections:

Francisco Xavier Godoy who married Maria Anttonia Casas daughter of

Comentarios

Comentario

Marriage to Juana Maria Miramontes (14Feb1734)

1.)Baltasar De Los Reyes Godoy Miramontes (18Jan1735)
2.)Jose Antonio Godoy Miramontes (31Oct1736)
3.)Jose Julian Godoy Miramontes (8Feb1739)

Marriage to Maria Antonia de Cazas (18Sep1741)
[10 year gap between marriage and kids]
4.)Gertrudis Polonia Godoy Cazas (12Feb1751)
5.)Francisco Tehodoro Godoy Cazas (10April1753)
6.)Maria Francisca Godoy Cazas (08Sep1754)
7.)Jose Dionicio Godoy Cazas (14April1760

Cannot find my descendant Jose Maria Godoy.

Comentario

Hello Joseph, I stem out from two branches from Antonio Miramontes, and Maria Teresa Munoz.

I also have a record for their daughter, Juana Maria Miramontes, born 27 Sep 1715 - married to Francisco (Carlos?) Godoy 14 Feb 1734 - film 443968 M607139 - which shows his parents as Francisco Godoy and Maria Rosa Llamas.

A few years ago, when I encountered the "Carlos de Godoy" line, I was quite confused, as sometimes the name was written as Carlos, Carlos de Godoy (Godi) or just Godoy. I actually discontinued researching the line for awhile, then I was told by a fellow researcher that they were one in the same.
(quen sabe?)
I have on long term, film 443968 - M607139. Which includes both marriages for Francisco Godoy, I would be happy to look at the documents for you, to see how the name is actually written.
Saludos/hs

Joseph Puentes wrote:

here is some info on my cousins Godoy family. Please contact me and I'll
put you in touch with him if you see a connections:

Francisco Xavier Godoy who married Maria Anttonia Casas daughter of
Manuel Casas and Ygnes Guerra in Sept 14, 1741 in Tlaltenango Sanchez
Roman Zacatecas. I also show him married to Juana Maria Miramontes who
parents are Antonio Miramontes and Maria Tereza Munos on Feb 14, 1734
Francisco Godoy parents are Francisco Godoy and Maria Rosa Llamas. Same
person or brothers? I hope to find out in the next few months. I have 5
children for Francisco and Anttonia Casas, Jose Antonio, Francisco
Tehodoro, Gertrudis Polonia , Maria Francisca and Jossept Dionicio.

joseph

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Comentario

Hi Prima,

How are you doing Helyn? I want to introduce you to my cousin in this
email. Helyn Sparkman (Castaneda) please meet Andy Hernandez.

I don't study the Godoy line since I haven't tied into it, but maybe one
day I will and my enthusiasm for that research will increase. I am
interested only on behalf of my cousins Andres (Andy) Hernandez and his
wife Mary Reyes (I'm not sure but I think only Andy ties into the Godoy's).

I've CC'ed Andy in this email and from what it looks like to me you both
are cousins, what 7th or 8th cousins or something like that. I'll leave
you two as newly found familia to get aquainted. Isn't it something
famlies that were separated about 300 years ago and became lost are now
found. Time to rejoice.

I'm so far away in North Carolina and you two are in California. I
wished I could visit more often.

take care,

joseph

ps: Helyn one day you and I might find we are related through our
Castaneda's. Andy is also a Castaneda via the same line as I am. We both
decend from the Diaz and Castaneda's that came from Coculitlen,
Zacatecas and moved to the Colotlan area of Jalisco. In the mean time
you and I grow closer through our mutual cousin.

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Santos Luna wrote:
> Hello Joseph, I stem out from two branches from Antonio Miramontes, and Maria Teresa Munoz.
>
> I also have a record for their daughter, Juana Maria Miramontes, born 27 Sep 1715 - married to Francisco (Carlos?) Godoy 14 Feb 1734 - film 443968 M607139 - which shows his parents as Francisco Godoy and Maria Rosa Llamas.
>
> A few years ago, when I encountered the "Carlos de Godoy" line, I was quite confused, as sometimes the name was written as Carlos, Carlos de Godoy (Godi) or just Godoy. I actually discontinued researching the line for awhile, then I was told by a fellow researcher that they were one in the same.
> (quen sabe?)
> I have on long term, film 443968 - M607139. Which includes both marriages for Francisco Godoy, I would be happy to look at the documents for you, to see how the name is actually written.
> Saludos/hs
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> here is some info on my cousins Godoy family. Please contact me and I'll
> put you in touch with him if you see a connections:
>
> Francisco Xavier Godoy who married Maria Anttonia Casas daughter of
> Manuel Casas and Ygnes Guerra in Sept 14, 1741 in Tlaltenango Sanchez
> Roman Zacatecas. I also show him married to Juana Maria Miramontes who
> parents are Antonio Miramontes and Maria Tereza Munos on Feb 14, 1734
> Francisco Godoy parents are Francisco Godoy and Maria Rosa Llamas. Same
> person or brothers? I hope to find out in the next few months. I have 5
> children for Francisco and Anttonia Casas, Jose Antonio, Francisco
> Tehodoro, Gertrudis Polonia , Maria Francisca and Jossept Dionicio.
>
> joseph
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Comentario

I have just returned from a trip to Teocaltiche and was able to find information on: Diego Alonso de Hermosillo married to Doña Juana de Alderete and his marriage to Luysa de Nava. If you are interested it in this information please contact me at:

1gnzlz@verizon.net

John Gonzalez.

Published by Miguel Gutierr… – Lun, 2008-08-11 11:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

John, how was the meeting. Is this the same Diego married Feb 19, 1669, Son of Diego-Alonso Ramirez de hermosillo and Luisa Muñoz de Nava. I need info on the parents of Juana Alderete.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gonzalez
To: Research Nuestros Ranchos
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

I have just returned from a trip to Teocaltiche and was able to find information on: Diego Alonso de Hermosillo married to Doña Juana de Alderete and his marriage to Luysa de Nava. If you are interested it in this information please contact me at:

1gnzlz@verizon.net

John Gonzalez.

Published by gnzlzspd – Lun, 2008-08-11 13:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hi Miggy:

We had a very interesting and educational meeting at Valle de Guadalupe, the
local hosts were just great.

Here is the info on Juana de Alderete:

Source: Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche Jalisco.
Matrimonios Libro #1, Fojas #113V.
al margen:Diego Alonso con Juana de Alderete
Diego Alonso de Hermosillo con Doña Juana de Alderete, vecinos de este
pueblo.
Juana de Alderete: Hija de Francisco de Alderete y Doña Elbira de Padilla
(difunta)

Padrinos: Capitan Pedro de Burgos y Doña Josepha de Leon.

Here's information on his first wife:

Source: Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco
Matrimonios, Libro #1, Fojas 31V.

Diego Alonso de Hermosillo con Luysa de Nava
23 Feb 1645, vecinos de de este pueblo.

Hija de Francisca Muños de Nava
Padrinos: Alonso Ramirez y Paula Torres.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

John Gonzalez
========================================================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:31
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

John, how was the meeting. Is this the same Diego married Feb 19, 1669, Son
of Diego-Alonso Ramirez de hermosillo and Luisa Muñoz de Nava. I need info
on the parents of Juana Alderete.

Published by Miguel Gutierr… – Lun, 2008-08-11 13:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

John, I am confused. I have Diego Alonso b-abt 1646 with Juana Alderete the same, yet I have Diego Alonso Ramirez de Hermosillo b-abt 1625 (his father) m- Feb 23, 1645 to Luisa Muñoz de Nava b- abt 1626(his Mother) not his wife source -Jaime Holcombe-- my own abreviation So-57 47-02 film
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gonzalez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

Hi Miggy:

We had a very interesting and educational meeting at Valle de Guadalupe, the
local hosts were just great.

Here is the info on Juana de Alderete:

Source: Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche Jalisco.
Matrimonios Libro #1, Fojas #113V.
al margen:Diego Alonso con Juana de Alderete
Diego Alonso de Hermosillo con Doña Juana de Alderete, vecinos de este
pueblo.
Juana de Alderete: Hija de Francisco de Alderete y Doña Elbira de Padilla
(difunta)

Padrinos: Capitan Pedro de Burgos y Doña Josepha de Leon.

Here's information on his first wife:

Source: Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco
Matrimonios, Libro #1, Fojas 31V.

Diego Alonso de Hermosillo con Luysa de Nava
23 Feb 1645, vecinos de de este pueblo.

Hija de Francisca Muños de Nava
Padrinos: Alonso Ramirez y Paula Torres.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

John Gonzalez
========================================================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ" >
To: >
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:31
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

John, how was the meeting. Is this the same Diego married Feb 19, 1669, Son
of Diego-Alonso Ramirez de hermosillo and Luisa Muñoz de Nava. I need info
on the parents of Juana Alderete.

Published by gnzlzspd – Lun, 2008-08-11 14:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I can see where someone can be confused: Both marriage records have the
same name, Diego Alonso de Hermosillo, as the groom.
Could it be the first Diego who married Luysa Nava on 23 Feb 1645 is the
father of Diego Alonso de Hermosillo who married Juana de Alderete on 19 fib
1669?

I got these records directly from the church in Teocaltiche.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 13:31
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

John, I am confused. I have Diego Alonso b-abt 1646 with Juana Alderete the
same, yet I have Diego Alonso Ramirez de Hermosillo b-abt 1625 (his father)
m- Feb 23, 1645 to Luisa Muñoz de Nava b- abt 1626(his Mother) not his wife
source -Jaime Holcombe-- my own abreviation So-57 47-02 film

Comentario

John, it seems that way. Diego and Luisa's other kids are Diego alonso b-1646, Catarina Gonzalez de hermosillob-1648, Capitan Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo b-1649, Francisco Ramires de Hermosillo b-1651, Gertrudis de Nava b-1653, Andres Munoz de hermosillo b-1655, Capitan Melchor Munoz de Hermosillo b-1658
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gonzalez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:11 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Confusion

Miggy:

I can see where someone can be confused: Both marriage records have the
same name, Diego Alonso de Hermosillo, as the groom.
Could it be the first Diego who married Luysa Nava on 23 Feb 1645 is the
father of Diego Alonso de Hermosillo who married Juana de Alderete on 19 fib
1669?

I got these records directly from the church in Teocaltiche.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ" >
To: >
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 13:31
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info

John, I am confused. I have Diego Alonso b-abt 1646 with Juana Alderete the
same, yet I have Diego Alonso Ramirez de Hermosillo b-abt 1625 (his father)
m- Feb 23, 1645 to Luisa Muñoz de Nava b- abt 1626(his Mother) not his wife
source -Jaime Holcombe-- my own abreviation So-57 47-02 film

Comentario

John,

Back to our favorite subject, the marriage of Diego Alonso de Hermosillo.
Did you get a photocopy of the marriage records from the church in
Teocaltiche? If this Diego is the same who married 1) Luisa Muñoz de Nava
and 2) Juana de Alderete y Padilla, the priest who married him the second
time should have mentioned that he was a widower. That was standard
procedure in the mid-1600s. That leads me to believe that the Diego who
married Juana de Alderete y Padilla was his son born ca. 1646. He would
have been 24 years old. Any chance you could scan these two marriage
records and email them to us?

Thanks,
Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Hi Bill:

Bad news, I went to the Notaría in the Church in Teocaltiche, hoping that I
would be allowed to look at books and maybe get some pictures of the
records in them, but that didn't happen. The policy is not to allow anybody
to handle the books, they are in very poor condition and they probably
couldn't stand up to the rough handling or abuse. I was not even allowed to
take pictures of the records. My wife's family lives in Teocaltiche and
they know the person in charge of the Notaría, but they were not about to
make an exception. I Understand the church's position and reason for the
policy, the books are hundreds of years old and they are priceless.

I can send you a copy of the certified certificate, but it is not a
photocopy from the original record, it is a transcription of it, and I have
already sent you that information. I was told that it was the only
information found in the original records. I felt very frustrated, hoping
that I would find a lot more information, but it is just not there...By the
way, they charge $75 Pesos to look up each record. I think each church sets
its own fees and policies on how the record books are handled. I've heard
that in some other places , like Cañadas de Obregon, they do allow the
public to search through the record books.

I am sorry Bill.

John Gonzalez

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 14:38
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego Alonso de Hermosillo

John,

Back to our favorite subject, the marriage of Diego Alonso de Hermosillo.
Did you get a photocopy of the marriage records from the church in
Teocaltiche?

Comentario

Thanks for the information, John. I guess the two transcriptions were taken
"verbatim" from the original records. I understand why so many catholic
churches have banned the general public from accessing their records. They
are fragile, easy to damage and indeed priceless. I feel very lucky to be
able to do my research at a nearby FHC. The Church of Latter Day Saints of
Jesus Christ has done a great service to humanity by copying millions of
church and civil records and preserving them for future generations.

I would appreciate it if you could scan the two records from the Church in
Teocaltiche and email them directly to my email address. I will continue to
research this family and will let you know if anything else comes up.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Records in Teocaltiche

Hi Bill:

Bad news, I went to the Notaría in the Church in Teocaltiche, hoping that I
would be allowed to look at books and maybe get some pictures...

Comentario

Hello,

I know I'm a few years late on this thread, but I recently established our parentesco with the Diego Alonso/Alfonso/Yldephonzo line, and I think it a good idea to connect the threads. The thread can be found here, with links to the IMs and records: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21940

Saludos,

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Published by Enrique Nungaray – Jue, 2009-09-10 19:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Buenas:

A ver si me pueden dar algun dato de ANTONIO NUNGARAY AGUAO quien fue bautizado en NOCHISTLAN, ZAC. el 23 de Enero de 1647.

Gracias anticipadas.

Suerte es lo que pasa cuando la preparaciòn encuentra a la oportunidad. Sèneca.
Enrique Nungaray LUTCF
Promotorias 20/284/296

Published by Jose Luis Felix – Jue, 2009-09-10 21:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hola Enrrique:

Encontre a ANTONIO NUNGARI

HIJO DE JUAN DE NUNGARAI Y DE ANA DE AGUAO (AGUAYO)

BAUTIZADO EL 23 DE ENERO DE 1647 EN NOCHISTLAN, ZAC.

BATCH#J600711 1627-1686 ROLLO#0226646

Yo tengo ese rollo a mi disposicion si quieres te puedo mandar una copia del acta de bautizo

Jose Luis Felix

Perris California

> From: enrique_nungaray@hotmail.com
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:27:29 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info
>
>
>
> Buenas:
>
>
>
> A ver si me pueden dar algun dato de ANTONIO NUNGARAY AGUAO quien fue bautizado en NOCHISTLAN, ZAC. el 23 de Enero de 1647.
>
>
>
> Gracias anticipadas.
>
>
> Suerte es lo que pasa cuando la preparaciòn encuentra a la oportunidad. Sèneca.
> Enrique Nungaray LUTCF
> Promotorias 20/284/296
>
>
>
>

Published by Jose Luis Felix – Vie, 2009-09-11 14:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hola Daniel:

La proxima vez que visite el Family History Center, les boy a pedir una lista exacta de todos los Rollos que tienen ,pero entre yo y otra persona tenemos mas de cuarenta a nuestra disposicion,ya que nosotros los pedimos y son copias que ya no las regresan .Hoy fui a ver dos rollos que me acaban de llegar sobre Bautizmos y Matrimonios de la Ciudad de Zacatecas,Zac.#0283370 y 0283371 1605-1698

Tambien tengo los rollos,#1152475,1152379,0226646,0444031,0445049,0439847,0439844,1093332,1108704,1108703,1164119,1164125,1164124,1164122,1164120,0617581,0615009,0615025,0615010,0226724

en cuanto tenga la lista te la doy a saber.

Saludos

Jose Luis Felix

Perris California
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:27:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info
>
>
> Hola Felix cuales rollos tienen en tu FHC quiza puedes ayudarme?
> -Daniel Camino
>
>
>
> mendezdelcamino@live.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>

Published by mendezdetorres – Jue, 2009-09-17 11:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

SI TE PEDIA PARA UN FAVOR DE UNOS DATOS, PODIAS CONSEGUIRLOS YA QUE ESTAS AHI? GRACIAS - DANIEL CAMINO
_________________________________________________________________

Published by Ruben Casillas – Jue, 2009-09-17 11:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Si, cuales datos ?

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El jue 17-sep-09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino escribió:

De:: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Info
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: jueves 17 de septiembre de 2009, 13:33

SI TE PEDIA PARA UN FAVOR DE UNOS DATOS, PODIAS CONSEGUIRLOS YA QUE ESTAS AHI? GRACIAS - DANIEL CAMINO
_________________________________________________________________

Comentario

Sorry, I do not have any Llamas or Casas within my data.
I am interested in your information, I will be looking in the next months.
Keep in touch.

Sylvia H Corona

Research Digest, Vol 133, Issue 7

Published by Patricia –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I'm interested in getting more information about the Gutierrez/
Monroy/Cortes connection, too....My family is Gutierrez & Almaraz and I
understand that the Almaraz family may be associated with the Co

Bautismo Libro Reservado

Published by arturdeleon –
Foros
Genealogy Research

while researching my Garcia lineage, I can across
this statement: los nombres de los Padres, Abuelos Paternos y Maternos se hallan

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2015-11-29 22:02 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

A Libro Reservado is a "hidden book". Sometimes for some reason people had to get married before a priest, but in secret (as in Romeo & Juliet), an their children had to be baptized also in secret. In those cases all the details regarding groom & bride or parents were written in these secret books.
Matrimonio oculto: Legislación matrimonial de la Iglesia. By José M. Fernández Castaño, Editorial San Esteban, 1994.
Matrimonio oculto, bautismo y libro reservado: Directorio moral del reverendo padre Fr. Francisco Echarri. Imprenta Real, 1788.

Comentario

I don't know if any of those books were microfilmed. The closest I've seen are the microfilms of marriages in the 1920's when the Mexican churches were closed and the ceremonies were preformed in houses.
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Today I found an article which potentially gives the Libro Reservado purpose. According
to the article written by the Catholic church, I believe in Aguascalientes, it would require a new search to find it, was to protect the man who fathered a child with a married woman. In this case the child's father would be the husband of the married woman
who gave birth and the biological father would be protected from future liabilities. Once I find that article, I will post the location of the information.
Arturo de Leon Garcia

Comentario

I'd certainly be interested.  Does anyone know what years are covered and what cities and/or states?   Thanks so much.  Alice BB

On Monday, February 13, 2017 7:29 PM, "winonade14@sbcglobal.net" wrote:

Today I found an article which potentially gives the Libro Reservado purpose.
According to the article written by the Catholic church, I believe in
Aguascalientes, it would require a new search to find it, was to protect the
man who fathered a child with a married woman. In this case the child's
father would be the husband of the married woman who gave birth and the
biological father would be protected from future liabilities. Once I find
that article, I will post the location of the information. Arturo de Leon
Garcia

Quien fue Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo?

Published by josieplascencia1 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Se dice que Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo fue hijo natural de Juan Gonzales de Hermosillo II y una hermana de su esposa legitima, Ana Gonzales Florida II. Sera cierto?

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Josie,
Hace tiempo investigué a este personaje: https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Guti%C3%A9rrez%20de%20Hermosillo-Des…
Tuvo al menos otros dos hijos: Pedro y Cristóbal. Cristóbal también era conocido como Cristóbal Muñoz de Hermosillo.
Me llama la atención que en la Dispensa #3 todos los declarantes mencionan que Melchor y Pedro eran hermanos "legitimos".
Espero esta información te sea de utilidad, aunque a mi también me deja mas dudas que respuestas.
Un cordial saludo.

Comentario

Hola Ruben,

Gracias por el link, muy detallado. Sabes, hace unas semanas lei una dispensa que mencionaba a Cristobal y a Pedro como hijos de Pedro Gutierrez, pero no estaba segura que fuera el mismo que yo estaba estudiando. Si mal no recuerdo, la dispensa decía que en su matrimonio Pedro había tenido a Cristobal y a Pedro… quizás los tuvo con Leonor de Hijar.

Hace unos días me encontré otra dispensa que da como hijos de Pedro a Jose y a Rosa. A Jose ya lo tenemos pero a Rosa no la tenia en mi árbol. Aquí van los datos:

Dispensa de Vicente Mercado y M Antonia Xaure (Yahualica, 23 Agosto 1800)

Tronco
Pedro Gutierrez

Rosa Gutierrez (hermanos) Jose Gutierrez
Nicolas Bargas (primos hermanos) Elvira Gutierrez [m Miguel de Mercado]
Ana Bargas (primos segundos) Miguel Mercado
Antonia Xaure (primos terceros) Vicente Mercado

Aquí esta el link https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L7T-R?mode=g&i=52&wc=3J43…

Gracias por contestar y compartir tu información!
Josie Plascencia

Comentario

i had a question about this family. it looks like theres a ilegitimate child born at the beginning of this thread and was wondering if anyone out there is aware of other ilegitimate children born from other Gonzalez de Hermosillos in the middle 1600s. i have a Juan Gonzalez married to a Catarina Barrera both born probably around 1650 in aguascalientes. theyre the parents of my ancestor Blas Gonzalez: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XGS-2WT normaly i wouldn't think theeres a connection but some of Blas Gonzalez's children and grandchildren use the Gonzalez de Hermosillo name, so im thinking they;res a connection but because my mine are mestizos im guessing its from a ilegitmate child with an India. anything that someone knows would be good. Thank you.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Perdon, olvide dar mi nombre, Josie Plascencia (Leon is mi apellido de casada)… ademas los arboles no salieron bien (how I intended), espero los puedan entender. Soy nueva y tengo mucho que aprender.

Aunque Gutierrez no es mi linea directa estoy muy interesada en aprender lo mas que pueda referente a Pedro Gutierrez ya que desciendo de sus hijos Miguel, Jose y Maria por varias lineas del lado de mi papa igual que de mi mama.

Mi linea directa me ha llevado a Pedro de Placencia casado con Melchora de los Reyes de Sandoval “La Moza”. La linea de mi mama (o sea de mi abuelo materno) me ha llevado a Francisco Gonzales de Robalcaba casado con Maria Gutierrez de Hermosillo en segundas nupcias o mas bien a los Padres de Francisco, Mateo de Robalcaba y Catharina de Sandoval.

Puse estas lineas en “hold” para estudiar a Pedro Gutierrez ya que su desendencia esta entrelazada multiples veces con los Placencia y los Rubalcava.

Saludos,
Josie Plascencia

Missing the boat

Published by apozolco –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hello fellow members,

Comentarios

Comentario

Anselmo

PAF will run on Windows 10. Charting Companion reads the PAF file and can generate charts and reports. Roots Magic Essentials is a free download that lets you try out Roots Magic before buying it.

Roots Magic will incorporate the Windows PAF file directly. The Apple MAc version needs to be converted; use the FR convert program (part of the Mac PAF package).

PAF can export your data as a gedcom file, at which point it can be imported into any number of other genealogy programs. Ancestral Quest and Legacy are a couple of options.

There are some online database programs.One I like, Geneanet, has both a free and paid version. The reporting functions are quite good. You can import a gedcom.

The Family History Centers will have one or more genealogy programs that you can try out.

George Fulton

Coronado y Campa y Cos

Published by sarod77 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

In this Matrimonio de Ypina (Ypinas have a history with several Coronados names unknown) he reveals to son of Don Antonio de Campa y Cos that he had an affair with a relative of his that he did not fi

"Familias Antiguas de Tlaltenango" by Arturo Ramos

Published by magicalme –
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Genealogy Research

Does anyone know if this book is available for purchase and download online? I am looking for my Roman ancestors and am hoping this book could help.

Thank you!

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Comentario

Kristine:

The book is certainly available for sale. There is a PDF of the name index in my folder on Nuestros Ranchos and you can purchase the printed book either through George Farias' Borderlands Books... I just sent him some more copies so he should have some even if his site says he is out of stock...

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Or you can order directly from the printer:

http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/arturo-ramos-pinedo/familias-antiguas-de…

Patrons of Santa Maria del Rio, San Luis Potosi, Mex.

Published by sarod77 –
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Genealogy Research

I have not been successful in locating any information about the Patrons outside of what I have found in their records.

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Comentario

While on Ancestry family trees have Bartholome and Sebastian as Father and Son. I disagree because the timeline is not right. Others have the Parents of Bartholome with parents born in 1575 while this may be possible it just does not seems right to me.

Here are my beliefs based only on what I have found so it is circumstantial.

*Bartholome Padron b: abt 1632 m:abt 1651 + Maria del Castillo b. abt 1635 (Mestizos sometimes Espanol)had 13 children found, birth range is from 1652 – 1675 (there are 3 Marias de Patron with 2 w/different birthdates and the 3rd Maria is married and could not be the any of the other Marias.

The first Child listed is Ysabel b. 1652 born in Santa Maria Del Rio, San Luis Potosi, Mexico

The following children are listed because they were born other than Santa Maria Del Rio, SLP, Mx.

Ygnacio b.1658 baptismal was in Villa de Reyes with a wealth of information of who his parents worked for and lived at this time.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG89-9T5C

Baptismal PP: Juan Hernandez y Juana Gomes Espanoles Besinos de la Villa de San Phelipe (Guanajuato)Hijo de Bartolome Padron y de Maria del Castillo, mestisos sirventes de Pedro Cueva (not sure if it states this surname) en el Puesto de Silao (Guanajuato)

Pedro Patron Mestizo b. 1660 San Felipe, Guanajuato m: 17 FEB 1697 Santa Maria Del Rio + Monica Bartholome

Sebastian Patron b. 4 Feb 1667 Villa de Reyes (image not located) m. 25 NOV 1740 San Francisco De Pozos, Pozos, San Luis Potosi, + Ysabel de la Rosa

Bartholome, Maria and Dorotea all baptized in San Felipe, Guanajuato and the last liste Maria Patron 1675 is baptized in Santa Maria del Rio, SLP, Mexico

*Sebastian Padron b. abt 1635 D. before 1687 m. abt 1657 unknown location + Francisca Gonzales

Jusepa is the first child listed unknown if first born b. 15 Apr 1658 Maqueyal, Santa Maria del Rio, SLP, Mx.

Juan Patron b.16 FEB 1664 San Felipe, Guanajuato, PP: Bartholome Padron y Maria del Castillo en la estancia del Cubo

Marcos Patron 7x greatgrandfather b. abt 1665 m. 4 Dec 1687 + Agustina de la Encarnacion Gutierres
PP: Sebastian Padron y Juana de Zamora su esposa (unknown parents)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGGD-FKL

(there is another Sebastian Padron (father is Juan Gonzales y Francisca Maria) b. abt 1665 m. 22 DEC 1686 San Felipe,Guanajuato,Mexico + Maria de la Cruz (M8MH-PW1 www.familysearch.org) b. abt 1632. Children of unknown Sebastian has children from 1691, 1694 and 1708 San Felipe, Gto.)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC9P-5HL

In comparison both Bartholome and Sebastian knew each other well as Bartholome and wife were padrinos to Juan, both baptized children in San Felipe, and had children living in Santa Maria del Rio. Their children were born close in age. They used similar names for their children and were given the label Espanoles sometimes and Mestizos. Other times the Cura did not put a label but many of the Cura’s had names that married into this family Yanez, Torres, Gonzales.

Marcelina, gracias por la informacion, ya compre el libro pero tambien voy a buscar en Morelia, Michoacan y tambien la informacion que Manny nos doy de los padrones y partidas.

Comentario

Simone,

i didn't see this when you wrote it a few days ago but Miguel Colunga and Bacilia Gonzalez are my ancestors but other than the stuff i have on the Wikitree i dont have any other information on them. but ive been trying to put all the sources at the bottom so you can click on the links but i havent done as much work on this side of my family so i might not have gotten around to it yet

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

While searching a different family member in Guadalajara Obispado, I came across this marriage record of Nicolas de Torres Padron con Miramontes (m. 11 May 1750 in Tlaltenango de Sanches Roman, Zacatecas).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6R9K-7L
Nicolas de Torres, Espanol Originario del Pueblo de Sta. Maria del Rio feligresia de San Luis Potosi, en el Obpdo. De Michoacan y vecino en la feligresia de Taltenango en el Rio de Cuculiten con (animo de mozar ?)a tiempo de siete anos hijo lexitimo de NICOLAS de Torres y de Agueda Padron, defuntos. Paresco ante VMO; y digo, que aviendo tratado y contentado contraer matrimonio segun horden de Nta. SSta. Madre Yglesia con Maria Anttonia de Miramontes, Espanola, originaria y vesina de este Rio de Cuculiten en esta feligresia de Taltenango. Hija natural de Maria Miramontes me presente ante el (SSt. Vicario) de aquella jurisdiction para el efecto de este matrimonio quien nos tomo nuestras declaraciones y nos ??informacion de nuestra livertad y soltura y no aver ympedimento y ympediente ni dirimente que nos embara para mi ni mi pretense este matrimonio y aviendola dado parasor aprobasion cassimitio…..names of the (Obispado) de esta Obispado ante quien comparesi con esta informacion y por qto. Esta fue amplia por parte de mi pretensa …presente en taltenango no dieron mas con..ento de mi que los estos siete que metrataron y comunicaron y rrespecto de que quando mis pa’s.me sacaron de este Puesto de Santa Maria del Rio en que menor de sies o siete anos y aunque metrayeron …partes quando llegue con ellos a esta villa aun no tenia edad yo de doze anos ….ofreco darcon conpetente numeros de testigos de averme criado en compania de estos mis Pa’s en el puesto que llaman La Boca de Ximulco de esta feligresia y no aber contraido en ella matrimony y ni algun ympedimento para contraerlo en esta Jurisdision ni en otra des de edada de …. Que vine. Somewhere along these several pages he states that they left Santa Maria del Rio and were taken in by his grandfather, Nicolas Sr’s. father who lived in these parts.
I have found one Nicolas Torres fitting the timeline with the mother name Agueda Patron only she is married to Nicolas Yanes (m. 15 November 1705 in Santa Maria del Rio) and while it is true that many times children may have different surnames other than the parents surnames, he states his father is Nicolas Torres, so far I have not found Torres only Ortega in grandparents, but his mother Agueda Patron is a Torres (Parents are Francisco Padron del Castillo y Josepha de Torres). There is another Nicolas Antonio Yanes born 1713 to this couple but he cannot be (per his statements) the Joseph Yanes that was born to this couple Yanes/Patron in 1713 because than his statements not being 12 yet to give his promise of marriage to someone else would not be true.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGGD-FF6
My question is “are they the same person? “
Nicolas Torres the pretenso states his paternal grandparents are from Taltenango (it is spelled like the priest wrote it). On the marriage of Nicolas Yanes y Agueda Patron Priest states they are from Partido de lo de Guerrero). I don’t know where they are to each other can anyone help?

Comentario

Hola Simone:

Puedes intentar con ese libro, creo que está también en Familysearch. Yo encontré mi familia de Villa de Reyes San Luis Potosí.

Partidos y Padrones del obispado de Michoacán .- Alberto Carrillo Cázares

La versión online no incluye la parte de San Luis Potosí

Saludos

Marcelina

Geronimo Gonzalez de hermosillo/Matiana/Mariana Lomelin

Published by chilerey54 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola Raza , I was cruising through Matrimonios-Jalostotitlan-1717-1748 Image # 261 (left hand side) ,and can't figure out where/how about the parents of Miguel Gutierrez-Coronado -son of Joseph Gutier

Comentarios

Comentario

These might be the people you are searching they are on www.familysearch.org

Parents of Geronimo Gonzalez de Hermosillo

Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Rubalcava Lopez
1643–1684 • LVRN-BQ1
​+
Francisca Renteria Arias

Parents of Miguel Gutierres

Juan Gutierrez Coronado
1645 Ocotlan,Jalisco,Mex •KNQG-HQ2

+
Juana De La Mora
​

Jalpa ,Zacatecas

Published by ghostops98 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have been trying to find my grandparents Teodoro Duran and Anastacia Viramontes they may have been born about 1830's thank you to anyone that can help me out.

Comentarios

Comentario

It's possible that this Teodoro Duran is the same one you're looking for, or at least related to him.

http://arturogonzalez.com/lavillitafamilies/languages/en/persons/Person…

As you'll see in the family tree, I have this Teodoro married to Ursina Figueroa Becerra.

Can you provide more details about the ancestors of Teodoro Duran/Anastacia Viramontes?

Arturo

Comentario

Hey Arturo in the family tree you have there are two people one named Nicomedes Duran and Maria Pilar Cuevlan? the ladys name is "Maria Pilar Cocolan". Her father is Francisco Cocolan and mother Patricia Figueroa. Francisco Cocolan is my Great,Great Grandfather

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2017-01-14 10:58 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Hugo,

It would be extremely unlikely that your grandmother Anastacia Viramontes was born in the 1830's unless you are close to ninety years old and your mother and grandmother were close to fifty when they had children. I have not yet encountered a ninety year old using the Internet to find grandparents that were really born in 1830's. You would be the first.

You also did not provide much information that can help identify them. Please name all their children, locations that they resided, and any other information that may help in identifying them.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

sorry didnt provide the correct information.
was not thinking when I wrote my question I Apologise for not providing correct information.Teodoro Duran and Anastacia Viramontes are my great,great,great grandparents.from the information I have got the son and grandson and great grandson where born in Chalchisco a ranch near Jalpa Zacatecas just dont know much about Teodoro Duran his wife Anastacia Viramontes was born abt 1830.

TEODORO DURAN Y ANASTACIA VIRAMONTES

SON

Jose Trinidad Duran B:1851
first wife Maria Trinidad Alvarez B:1856 D:1884
second wife Gregoria Munoz B:1870

Grandson

Jose Guadalupe Duran B:1874 D:1930
first wife Maria Galaviz B:1882 D:1900
second wife Gregoria Lozano B:1878 D:1942

Great Grandson

Aniceto Duran B:1915 D:1984
wife Cleotilde Cocolan B:1920 D:1998

Comentario

sorry didnt provide the correct information.
was not thinking when I wrote my question I Apologise for not providing correct information.Teodoro Duran and Anastacia Viramontes are my great,great,great grandparents.from the information I have got the son and grandson and great grandson where born in Chalchisco a ranch near Jalpa Zacatecas just dont know much about Teodoro Duran his wife Anastacia Viramontes was born abt 1830.

TEODORO DURAN Y ANASTACIA VIRAMONTES

SON

Jose Trinidad Duran B:1851
first wife Maria Trinidad Alvarez B:1856 D:1884
second wife Gregoria Munoz B:1870

Grandson

Jose Guadalupe Duran B:1874 D:1930
first wife Maria Galaviz B:1882 D:1900
second wife Gregoria Lozano B:1878 D:1942

Great Grandson

Aniceto Duran B:1915 D:1984
wife Cleotilde Cocolan B:1920 D:1998

Help with translation

Published by andrews90032 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone, I've been away from my research for a few years and have recently started in again. I was wondering if anyone could help me with the translation on the link I've included.

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New member

Published by jking2000 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I hope this is the right place to introduce myself. I am here because of my children and grandchildren, descendants of the Bernals from Aguascalientes.

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2017-01-14 11:03 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Joan,

Welcome to nuestrosranchos. Feel free to ask questions about dead ends. Remember to provide as much information as you can that would help in knocking down the brickwalls.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Antonio Escoto y Tovar

Published by dcalonso –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone help me and tell me what this says about my ancestor Antonio
Escoto y Tovar.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi all,

Here is what I was able to come up with:
Antonio Escoto Tovar, español, Jalostotitlán

En Jalostotitlán en ocho de marzo de mil seiscientos y ochenta y tres años, murió y se enterró, con posas, vigilia y misa cantada, Antonio de Escoto Tovar, casado que era con Inés Ortiz, de esta jurisdicción, español. Murió en este pueblo, confeso y llevándole el viatico al llegar a la puerta de la casa dijeron “aprisa que se muere”…< ¿? > absolví por la < boca? > y encomendé el alma. Y luego expiro. No testo porque, aunque se le advertí, acabándole de confesar dijo que < aun? > no era tiempo que había y < ¿? > a llamar, a un y lo supo. Y lo ahogo el mal. Fabrica al mayordomo = siete pesos y cuatro de la cera del altar.
:

Best regards,
Austin Perez

Comentario

En Xalostitlan en ocho de marzo de mill siescientos y ochenta y tres = Murio
y se enterro con pocas vigilia y misa cantada, Antonio de escoto tovar
aulado (al lado?) ?? era con ynes ortiz desta hac(ienda) espl (espanol)
murio en este pueblo, confeso y llebandole el viatico a llegar a la pta
(puerta) de la casa, dixieron aprisa que se muere. y lo ? ????, y lo
encomende el alma y en eso espiro; no testo porque anuque se lo adverti,
acabandole de confesar dixo que aun no era tiempo que avia y auviado a
llamar a un y lo suyo y lo ago(t)o el mal = fabrica al mayorodomo = siete
(?) y quatro (?) de la sera del altar =

En Jalostitlan on the eighth of March of sixteen eighty three = (Antonio de
Escoto Tovar) Died and was buried with a small wake and sung mass, Antonio
de Escoto Tovar (buried) to the side of (?) Ynes Ortiz of this Hacienda a
Spaniard he died in this town, confessed and as the Eucharist arrived at the
door of his house, I was told to hurry as he was dying, and I (????) as I
entrusted his soul he died; He did not make a testament although I advised
it, upon finishing his confession he stated that it was not time, that they
would have to call a ? and his and the illness fatigued him = (fabrica) to
the butler (mayordomo) = seven (?) and four (?) from the (base?) of the
altar.

Best I could do,
-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Alonso
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:35 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Antonio Escoto y Tovar

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Could someone help me and tell me what this says about my ancestor Antonio
Escoto y Tovar. The writing on the Jalostotlilan records are very hard to
read

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FM9R-2Y?i=65&wc=3J4Y-DP8%3…

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Creo que Ines Ortiz era su mujer

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2015, at 10:50 AM, wrote:
>
> En Xalostitlan en ocho de marzo de mill siescientos y ochenta y tres = Murio y se enterro con pocas vigilia y misa cantada, Antonio de escoto tovar aulado (al lado?) ?? era con ynes ortiz desta hac(ienda) espl (espanol) murio en este pueblo, confeso y llebandole el viatico a llegar a la pta (puerta) de la casa, dixieron aprisa que se muere. y lo ? ????, y lo encomende el alma y en eso espiro; no testo porque anuque se lo adverti, acabandole de confesar dixo que aun no era tiempo que avia y auviado a llamar a un y lo suyo y lo ago(t)o el mal = fabrica al mayorodomo = siete (?) y quatro (?) de la sera del altar =
>
> En Jalostitlan on the eighth of March of sixteen eighty three = (Antonio de Escoto Tovar) Died and was buried with a small wake and sung mass, Antonio de Escoto Tovar (buried) to the side of (?) Ynes Ortiz of this Hacienda a Spaniard he died in this town, confessed and as the Eucharist arrived at the door of his house, I was told to hurry as he was dying, and I (????) as I entrusted his soul he died; He did not make a testament although I advised it, upon finishing his confession he stated that it was not time, that they would have to call a ? and his and the illness fatigued him = (fabrica) to the butler (mayordomo) = seven (?) and four (?) from the (base?) of the altar.
>
> Best I could do,
> -Angelina-
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Danny Alonso
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:35 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Antonio Escoto y Tovar
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone help me and tell me what this says about my ancestor Antonio
> Escoto y Tovar. The writing on the Jalostotlilan records are very hard to
> read
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FM9R-2Y?i=65&wc=3J4Y-DP8%3…
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny you're right it is very difficult but here is what I could read from it.

...8 May 1683 died and was buried with ??? Antonio de Escoto Tovar and was buried on the other side of Ynes Ortiz of this (Hacienda)Espanoles. He died in the pueblo and was conferred and also "el viatico ??? (the following sounds as if they tried to save him and took him somewhere but by the time the cura arrived he was going fast. He did not leave a testament even though the Cura warned him to do so, but Antonio said it was not time yet (I don't know what it continues to say but the Mayordomo arrived or was called and expired.

Comentario

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm trying to see if anyone knows the parents of Antonio de escoto y Tovar
or has any information on his origin. I think he was born around 1620 in
jalostitlan or San Juan de los Lagos. He was married to Ines Ortiz de rodas
and had at least 11 children. Ive seen some people say he was the alcalde
ordinario and mayordomo but I don't know. There's a don Pedro de escoto y
Tovar that's receives some kind of appointment to the royal audience in
1669 but I don't know his connection. Does anyone have any information on
Antonio de Escoto y Tovar?

Danny C. Alonso

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