Probably some of you already know about a book that has just been released about some sephardic families living in northern Mexico, here is a copy paste of the info:
Carlos,
my Spanish isn't very good. but in the bottom paragraphs where it mentions the several surnames that are Sephardic does it say if you get a Sephardic certificate than you can get Spanish citizenship? Because I descend from all five of the surnames mentioned.
Danny C. Alonso
Exactly Danny, it says that the book is the result of a project aimed to prove the sephardic roots of one specific mexican family what was proudly acomplished and áfter the presentation of the said book the family obtained the sephardic certificate and therefore the Spanish citicenship.
Thank you Carlos. This is very interesting. I need to get this book and do some research.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
I believe it was under the Franco dictatorship that the doors were first opened for Sefardis. Since the Democratic Transition, Sefardis are fast-tracked through the naturalization process, requiring 2 years of residence in Spain (as opposed to 10). This new law waives the naturalization process and gives instant citizenship (you don’t even have to live in Spain!!).
But there are still some hoops to jump through:
- You have to get certification from a Rabbinical authority regarding your Sefardic pedigree;
- You have to be “linked” to Spain (you’ve traveled there, or studied Spanish language & culture, etc);
- You have to take the DELE exam showing that you speak basic Spanish (waived for those from Spanish-speaking countries);
- You have to take an exam showing that you have knowledge of the Spanish Constitution and Spanish customs.
The approval process can take anywhere from 13 months to 2 years, depending on who you ask. Also, though I’m not 100%, you need to apply within 3 years of 1 Oct 2015, when the new Law was enacted, so by 1 Oct 2018.
Here’s a link to immigration lawyers who specialize, watch the video:
http://www.immigrationspain.es/2014/08/spanish-sephardic-passport/?gcli…
Here is a good FAQ:
http://www.rhodesjewishmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/FAQs-for-S…
My take? Spain’s been hit hard by the global economic crisis, and unemployment for men under the age of 25 was close to 50%, last I heard. Social services are strained with the large number of retirees and unemployed. The one advantage of Spanish citizenship I can see is, Spain is a member of the EU, which might help for employment opportunities in other member states.
Would you be willing to swear an oath to the Spanish King? :)
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you Manny. This information is very helpful. I didn't really know any Spanish or anything about Spanish customs before doing genealogy and now I know a lot more. Probly not enough to pass a test but I'll be studying Spanish in the fall so maybe I'll get a lot better soon and Im hoping to travel to Spain or other Spanish countries in college but I don't know if I'll know enough by 2018. but the thing about the Spanish king, do you lose your American citizenship if you do that?
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
If you use the Sefardi option, you can keep both nationalities. But then, as far as I know, the US doesn't recognize dual-nationalities, though they may have exceptions, I don't know. You'll have to look into that.
“Dual nationality
If you are successful, you will have to swear your loyalty to the King and promise to obey the Spanish constitution and laws.
Unless you’re from a Spanish-American country, Andorra, the Philippines, Equatorial Guinea or Portugal, you will also have to renounce your previous nationality. Sephardic Jews and descendents can also maintain their original citizenship to have dual nationality.
You will lose your Spanish citizenship if you reside abroad and take up another nationality (or use your old nationality) for more than three years, unless within that three-year period you declare to the Civil Registry your will to keep Spanish nationality.”
Source: Expatria (http://www.expatica.com/es/visas-and-permits/How-to-get-Spanish-citizen…)
Hello,
In order to meet the criteria for Spanish citizenship you need to qualify and prove several items. Surnames alone isn't proof of one's lineage as many conversos and crypto jews changed their surnames for various reasons. The body in Spain that decides what is actual "proof" is called Federacion de communidades Judias de Espanol. The website is in Spanish and English. You will find all the info there. DNA is also not accepted.
You can see all the info and criteria here: http://www.fcje.org/preguntas-frecuentes/
On the book, I've read that the sources of the DNA study is being questioned. Since everyone in this forum is very sensitive to plagiarism etc. I thought I'd mention it. There is a person who conducted a DNA study of 100 of his relatives in Allende, NL. He is claiming that the information used in this book is his own and that it was stolen from his drop box by a mutual friend. I cannot verify the claim but would like to put this disclaimer out there. The genealogist is Paulino Alaniz and the discussion is all over Facebook genealogy sites.
Maven
Hola primos,
Hi Manny,
I could only read the first dispensa so I was able to to map out the genealogy and corroborate what I got on my tree but the second one was hard to read so I don't understand the way you place them on your TRONCOS. Is it possible that you transcribe the writing of the documents, or put hermanos or hijos on the Troncos to be able to follow them properly please?
My tree has a lot of what Retoños... says and so it is different.
I understand it might be just the way my brain works that I can not get it, but I would truly appreciate a little help with this work of yours, which is great, by the way!
Thank you
Silvia I. Sandoval
Hello Silvia,
Thank you for the compliment! I'm sorry, it's been so long since I did that piece, I don't recall the details, and it'll be a while before I can go over everything I did.
I do know that other NR members have worked on these same dispensas since then, and with a fresher approach. I recommend looking them over: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23816
Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Im trying to review everything here and see if there is anything missed. Looks like I am missing some data in my tree. Can anyone help with
8ii. TRONCO: Carlos Lomelin & Maria de Benavides
Lucas Lomelin-1-Jacinta de Oliva y de Cuevas
Gaspar Lomelin-2-Marcela Yñiguez
Lucas Lomelin-3-Juana Esquibias
Does anyone have any sources linking Lucas and Jacinta de Oliva de Cuevas to Carlos Lomelin and Maria Benavides? I have confirmed a Maria Benavides as Jacinta's mother; however, no spouse, and Gaspar's father Lucas being married to Josefa Maria de Torres.
luigi
there's a jacinta de oliva here on the wikitree, i dont know if its the same though: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Oliva-1
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
I appreciate the help. According to the tree I posed there is an additional Jacinta Oliva that is the son of Carlos Lomelin and Maria Benavides.
Luigi aka Alex Mercado
Alex,
i have a jacinta de cuevas who's mother is maria benavides but her husband isn't Carlos lomelin.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Cuevas-31
Danny C. Alonso
The Cuevas surname here was sometimes Cuevas de Carvajal or Carbajal de Cuevas. Researching the Carvajal Cuevas family connections is a little tricky during this time period as many of the family members came under suspicion of reverting back to their Jewish roots. Since some were found guilty by the inquisition, some family members attempted to hide their family tree.
According to Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez y Frias in the book Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino De La Nueva Galicia En El Siglo xv11 Segun Sus Archivos Parroquiales the husband for Maria Venavides is Andres De Cuevas. In the Baptism of Juan Rodriguez de la Mora dated 31st of July 1678. He is the son of Juan Rodriguez and Catalina Yanez. The padrinos were "Andres De Cuevas and Maria Venavides his wife" The entry is found in the page # 70 of the book. In the Bautismos of Nochistlan film # 226646, image # 377 is the location for this source.
Here is the link
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-G1VF-D?i=376&wc=3P98-JWG%3…
Very interesting data point. Thank you for this info
Hola Ricardo:
La relación de parentesco y por otra parte de enemistad entre estas tres familias viene desde tiempo atrás:
El 7 de septiembre de 1312, en Jaén muere el rey Fernando IV de Castilla, conocido como "El Emplazado". Dicho rey condenó a muerte a Pedro y Juan Alfonso de Carvajal por asesinar a Gómez de Benavides, los Carvajal se declararon inocentes y emplazaron al rey para presentarse ante el tribunal de Dios en un mes. Los Carvajales fueron despeñados y el rey murió dentro del plazo fijado.
En 1520, don Diego de Carvajal III Señor de Jódar tuvo un altercado con Don Luis de la Cueva, con quien tenía algún parentesco, fue por la disputa sobre un camino, se generó una pelea y Don Luis fue muerto a pesar de ser un anciano. Su hijo aliado con los Benavides atacó la fortaleza y la villa de Jódar, muriendo más de dos mil personas.Los Carvajal no fueron debidamente juzgados, debido a su poderío militar, en cambio ayudaron al rey en la Guerra de las comunidades.
En México hay cuatro ramas principales de la familia Carvajal:
1. Los descendientes de Don Antonio de Carvajal están en la ciudad de México, Toluca, Michoacán y Jalisco.
2. Los descendientes de Don Juan de Carvajal "El Viejo" están en el estado de Hidalgo.
3. Los descendientes de Juan de Limpias Carvajal están en Oaxaca y Querétaro.
4. Los descendientes de la hermana de Don Luis de Carvajal y de la Cueva pasaron a Hidalgo.
Saludos
Marcelina
Luigi,
Manny and Alex made an excellent work.
As you said, this Dispensa includes two Geronima de Benavides, one is the sister of Luis de Benavides and the other is his daughter. We have to take into account there is no such Geronimo the Benavides brother of Luis.
Saludos
Thank you for clarifying. I dont believe there is a gender change. Does anyone know of any other sources stating Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes had a son, Geronimo?
Hola a todos:
El apellido Benavides es de orígen judío y significa Ben Avid (hijo de David) fue muy respetado en España.
Entre los conquistadores destacaron Pedrarias Dávila y Alonso de Ávila:
Primera generación
1. Gil González de Ávila y Benavides casó con Elena de Villalobos
2. Francisca González de Ávila y Benavides casó con Alonso de Bracamonte
Segunda Generación
1.1. Alonso de Ávila y Villalobos conquistador de México
1.2 Gil González de Ávila y Villalobos casó con Leonor de Alvarado, conquistador de México y sucesor de su hermano.
2.1 Álvaro de Bracamonte casó con Beatriz de Loa y Alvarado
Tercera Generación
1.2.1 Gil González de Ávila y Alvarado, decapitado en 1567 con descendencia
1.2.2 Alonso de Ávila y Alvarado, decapitado en 1567 con descendencia
2.1.1. Isabel
2.1.2 Guillén
2.1.3 Alonso
2.1.4 Álvaro
2.1.5 "N"
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola a todos:
Les mando algunas relaciones previas entre las familias Alvarado, Benavides, Sandoval, Bracamonte y Moscoso.
Primera generación
Garci Sánchez de Alvarado casó con Leonor de Bracamontes;
Segunda generación:
Juan de Alvarado Bracamontes casó con Catalina Mexia de Sandoval
Tercera generación
Diego Gomez de Alvarado Mexía de Sandoval casó en primeras nupcias con Teresa Suarez de Moscoso. En segundas nupcias con Leonor de Contreras y Gutiérrez de Trejo
Cuarta Generación
Pedro de Alvarado y Contreras casó en primeras nupcias con Doña Francisca de la Cueva y Benavides. En segundas nupcias con beatriz de la Cueva y Benavides.
Jorge de Alvarado y Contreras casó con Catalina de Carvajal Villafañe
Quinta generación
Jorge de Alvarado Villafañe casó con Juana Nicolasa de Benavides, con descendencia.
***
Existen varias Leonor de Alvarado (Leonor de Alvarado Xicotencátl, Leonor de Alvarado y Estrada), la que se casó con Gil González de Ávila algunos la hacen descender de Juan de Alvarado y Contreras e Isabel de Villapadierna, otros de Jorge de Alvarado.
En una nota vieja, de la que no conservo el registro de la fuente encontré que Leonor de Alvarado quedó viuda y se casó con Luis de Moscoso. Habrá que volver a buscar.
Saludos
Marcelina
hola Marcelina,
Yo desciendo de Álvaro de Bracamonte y Beatriz de Loa y Alvarado
Saludos,
Ricardo
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Los Ávila de Benavides
Submitted by Marcelina Macias on Sun, 2016-11-06 07:54.
Hola a todos:
El apellido Benavides es de orígen judío y significa Ben Avid (hijo de David) fue muy respetado en España.
Entre los conquistadores destacaron Pedrarias Dávila y Alonso de Ávila:
Primera generación
1. Gil González de Ávila y Benavides casó con Elena de Villalobos
2. Francisca González de Ávila y Benavides casó con Alonso de Bracamonte
Segunda Generación
1.1. Alonso de Ávila y Villalobos conquistador de México
1.2 Gil González de Ávila y Villalobos casó con Leonor de Alvarado, conquistador de México y sucesor de su hermano.
2.1 Álvaro de Bracamonte casó con Beatriz de Loa y Alvarado
Tercera Generación
1.2.1 Gil González de Ávila y Alvarado, decapitado en 1567 con descendencia
1.2.2 Alonso de Ávila y Alvarado, decapitado en 1567 con descendencia
2.1.1. Isabel
2.1.2 Guillén
2.1.3 Alonso
2.1.4 Álvaro
2.1.5 "N"
Saludos
Marcelina
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I took a look at dispensa #2 and Im failing to see the gender change (full disclosure I speak 0 spanish).
It appears to me that there are two Geronima Benavides' in that dispensa and they are both female. Could someone please clarify. Thank you
Manny
It is also possible moscoso y sandoval is a surname formed by the marriage of a moscoso and a sandoval. I have seen both of these surnames in the early conquistadors/settlers
Hello Manny,
Thank you for taking this on. All of these lines are either my ancestors or my wife's ancestors.
Great work,
Rick A Ricci
You're welcome, Rick, I just hope it's comprehensive! My head is still spinning....
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi Manny,
This is tremendous work. Great Job Manny!
Chris
I'm somewhat confused by this. My ancestor Regina de Aguayo is mentioned in
this post. Previously, I had no parents for her. Is this saying that Regina
de Aguayo is the daughter of Diego de Aguayo and Geronima Benavides? Or am
I wrong?
Paige
Hi Paige,
You are correct, Regina de Aguayo, who was married to Juan Duran Duque was the daughter of Diego de Aguayo & Geronima de Benavides as per the Carlos Casillas-Magdalena Sandoval dispensa (5a).
This Dispensa for Lorenzo de Mexia-Duran and Phelipa Rodriguez-Lozano shows that Regina de Aguayo and Antonio de Aguayo were siblings:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-12393-2?cc=1874591&wc=…
Regina Aguayo-1-Antonio Aguayo
(Juan Duran) (Luisa Yslas)
Antonio Duran-2-Micaela Aguayo
(Juana Vasquez) (N.N.)
Regina Duran-3-Juan Rodriguez de Frias
(Domingo Mexia) (Maria Lozano)
Lorenzo Mexia-4-Phelipa Rodriguez
In “Sagrada Mitra” p298, Dispensa 1605, is for Joseph Thadeo Casillas and Maria de Aguayo, who also descend from Regina and Antonio de Aguayo. This shows how Francisca Duran m. Francisco Vascones y Casillas is daughter of Juan Duran & Regina de Aguayo, as seen in Dispensa 5a:
Nochistlán. Zac. Junio 17 de 1730. Exp. 38 - Dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad - Joseph Thadeo Casillas, español de 22 años de edad, oríginano y vecino de este Curato, hijo legítimo de Vicente Casillas y de Agustina Gómez, difunta; con María de Aguayo, española de 40 años de edad, originaria y vecina de este Curato, hija legítima de Bernardino de Aguayo y de Magdalena de la Dueña, difuntos. ¡Declaración del pretenso; Por ser bisnietos ambos de dos hermanos que lo fueron Antonio y Regina de Aguayo. Regina tuvo por hija a Francisca Duran, y Francisca tuvo por hijo a Vicente Casillas. Vicente tuvo por hijo a Joseph Thadeo pretenso, y Antonio de Aguayo, tuvo por hijo a Antonio de Aguayo. Antonio tuvo por hijo a Bernardino de Aguayo. Bernardino tuvo por hija a María de Aguayo pretensa. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 4 de juüo de 1730. 11 fojas.
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
PS I just noticed I gave Carlos Casillas the incorrect surname (Carrillo) in the header for Dispensa 5a - I hope that doesn’t throw anyone off!
Manny,
Thank you. This clears up a lot. Just want to verify that Juan Simón Duran
is the same as the Juan Duran Duque mentioned? And, if so, are his parents
known?
Paige
Hi Paige,
I haven’t seen him listed as Juan Simon Duran, but it might be him. I don’t have his parents.
When Juan Duran Duque was buried 12 Nov 1673, the partida says he was over 80 years-old, placing his birth before 1593:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15206-181-44?cc=1804458&wc=M…
When their son Juan Duran (probably their oldest) was a testigo on this IM in Dec 1677, he gave his age as 52, placing his birth around 1625:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-21827-40?cc=1804458&wc…
So, Regina de Aguayo could’ve been born as late as 1610. She was buried 16 Nov 1690:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15206-29-22?cc=1804458&wc=M9…
Does that fit in your timeline?
There were a few women named Regina de Aguayo, through the generations. Both Regina de Aguayo-Benavides and her brother Antonio de Aguayo had daughters named Regina de Aguayo, as did her son, Andres Duran, who was married to Juana de la Asuncion Vasquez: Regina Duran married Domingo Mexia, and she also went by Regina de Aguayo.
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi Manny,
I was just trying to find information on this couple the other day. It appears that this Juan Durán is listed as Juan Ximón Durán in "Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales." - Capítulo 2 Descendencia de Juan Ximón Durán y Regina de Aguayo. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18198#comment-17050
Chris
How I wish they'd print another edition of that book! Thanks, Chris. Then it looks like we're on the right path, Paige.
According to the 20 Sep 1649 padron for Nochistlan, Juan Duran & Regina de Aguayo had 6 children:
Rancho de Juan Duran Espanol medio legua de dtho pueblo:
Juan Duran cc
Regina de Aguayo cc
Juan Duran cc
Andres Duran cc
Nicolas Duran cc
Maria Duran cc
Jose Duran c
Francisca Duran todos sus hijos N
"cc" means confessed & communion (8+), "c" means confessed (5+) "N" too young or incapable of either.
They also had a daughter named Melchora de los Reyes, who married Luis de Velasco. 26 Mar 1651 in Nochistlan (odd that she doesn't appear in the padron):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-404-77?cc=1804458&wc=M…
They had another daughter named Regina de Aguayo, who was a madrina for Miguel Indio, with her brother Juan Duran El Mozo, 8 Nov 1676:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-15174-13?cc=1804458&wc…
I hope that helps!
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you Manny,
This is very helpful info.
Paige
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum
I recently connected to the Lozano family that are my ancestors and I see
there is a Josepha Lozano connected to this family under Josepha Vasquez de
Sandoval and wanted to know more about her to see if my Lozano's connect to
this family.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
Who are your Lozanos?
Chris
From: Danny Alonso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] BENAVIDES-CORTES
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum
I recently connected to the Lozano family that are my ancestors and I see
there is a Josepha Lozano connected to this family under Josepha Vasquez de
Sandoval and wanted to know more about her to see if my Lozano's connect to
this family.
Danny C. Alonso
Chris
They are Maria Duran and Eugeno Lozano
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
You actually do connect to this family. From the IM of Eugenio Lozano and María Durán, you can see that María Durán is the daughter of Andrés Durán and Juana (de la Ascención) Vázquez (de Sandoval)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12123-157604-39?cc=1502404…
Andrés Durán is the son of Juan Ximón Durán and Regina de Aguayo. Regina de Aguayo is the daughter of Diego de Aguayo and Gerónima de Benavides.
Juana de la Ascención Vázquez de Sandoval is the daughter of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortés:
"Andrés Durán casó con Juana de la Ascensión Vásquez de Sandoval hija de Juan Moscoso y Sandobal y de Catalina Cortés." - Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías
Chris
On Juan Moscoso y Sandoval's daughter Juana de la Asemcion Vasquez de
Sandoval does anyone know why she uses that name instead of Moscoso y
Sandoval? On this pdf I found a few days ago theres lots of little
biographies of people in spanish. Theres also one for a Juan Benevides but
I don't know if its the same one. but theres a biography for a Suero
Vasquez de Moscoso and wanted to know if he's an ancestor of Juana de la
Asemcion Vasquez de Sandoval and Juan Moscoso y Sandoval.
http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
“Vasquez de Sandoval” was used by some female descendants of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes II, starting with their daughter, Josepha, who was married to Juan Lozano. I don’t know its origin. nor have I seen it used by any male descendants, so it might be a maternal surname.
Manny Diez Hermosillo
The pdf that has all the Spanish biographies also has one for Guido de
Lavesares and mentions Sebastian Lavesares and Luis de Lavesares too that
was talked about a couple weeks ago
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you danny for this resource : http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf
It is great reading and provides a lot of interesting information. From it I found out that an ancestor of mine sent her nephew to rescue another family member from an abduction, They had abducted him to force him to marry. Too bad it doesn't say what happened afterwards.
R A Ricci
Danny,
This PDF is a excellent resource. Thank you.
Paige
R A,
That sounds like a good story. What was his name I want to read that
biography.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
It was your idea to use this resource.
I was just flipped through some of the pages and recognized a couple of my ancestors, actually more than a couple.
But one ot the most interesting stories was the one with my ancestor Alonso Bracamonte y Alvarado son of Alvaro Bracamonte y Alvarado and Beatriz Alvarado.
I descend from Alonso and the wife that he eventually married. The woman in this story is not the same one as his eventual wife.
It turns out that Alonso was kidnapped in Colima and they tried to get him to marry a daughter of Juan Anonio Brambila. He was kidnapped "mas de un mes, habiendole traido con enganos de Compostela". He later married Beatriz Fernandez de Hijar.
Alonso de Bracamonte y Alvarado and Beatriz Fernandez de Hijar had a daughter named Antonia de Hijar Bracamonte whom married Capitan Juan de Mesa y Valdivia. Their daughter named Antonia de Hijar, like their mother, married Nicolas Rodriguez de Frias and that is where we get the composite surname in Los Altos de Jalisco "Rodriguez de Hijar". I descend from Rodriguez de Hijar from both my parents.
Francisco de Bracamonte:
Por encargo de Beatriz de Alvarado y en compañía de Juan de Avellaneda, vino a Colima en 1568 para rescatar a su sobrino Alonso de Bracamonte, a quien habían secues- trado los Robles para casarlo a la fuerza con una hija de Juan Antonio Brambila, conquistador de Nueva Vizcaya: Amaya Topete, Bioteca... (1551), 26 y 27.
Thanks again Danny for this wonderful resource,
Rick A Ricci
Thank you Manny. I was looking on the internet for other people with that
name and saw these two people. Do you think they might be Juan Moscoso y
Sandoval brothers
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltasar_Moscoso_y_Sandoval
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchor_de_Moscoso_y_Sandoval
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Daniel,
I don’t know if they’d be his brothers, but they’re probably related. Those 2 were sons of a count, and I’ve seen no mention of the Nochistlan clan descending from nobility, nor have I seen the surname “Ossorio” nor "Altamira" associated with them, which could be expected, if Juan was the son of Don Lope Moscoso Ossorio Conde de Altamira.
I haven’t researched the surname Moscoso y Sandoval in Spain yet, I’m still gathering information on them in Mexico. At this time, I have no records linking Juan Moscoso y Sandoval to Spain, in fact, there is nothing at AGIS with the compound surname “Moscoso y Sandoval,” so, whoever made the crossing probably didn’t use the entire surname (or it hasn’t been indexed yet).
Juan de Sandoval and Catalina Cortes’ first child was probably Diego; from IM’s on which he was a testigo, I estimate Diego was born around Oct 1608, so Juan was probably born around 1585-88. That would make him a contemporary of the peninsulars you cited. Juan & Catalina did name a son, “Melchor,” but I haven’t seen “Baltasar” amongst descendants.
Here's what I have on Juan de Sandoval:
On 19 Dec 1628, he and his daughter Mariana de Sandoval were padrinos for Juan, hijo de Diego y de Ysabel (left image bottom):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-16331-14?cc=1804458&wc…
On the 6 Nov 1631 marriage record of Antonio de Siordia and Maria Yñiquez, he is named as a testigo, along with Francisco Gonzalez [Martinez?] and Juan Yñiquez (it’s a shame the IM’s don’t go back that far!!):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-294-87?cc=1804458&wc=M…
On 1 Jun 1642, again, he’s named as a testigo, along with his son, Diego, on the marriage record of Pedro de Cardenas and Catalina Elena (right image top):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-736-72?cc=1804458&wc=M…
Catalina Cortes appears as a widow in the 20 Sep 1649 Padron for Nochistlan, so we know he died between Jun 1642 and Sep 1649.
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you Manny. This is very exciting looking for ancestors. I wish we
could connect the Spain Moscosos y Sandovals wit the ones from Mexico. They
must be related because it's such an unusual last name. I used a translator
on Melchior Moscoso y Sandoval and it says Melchor de Moscoso y Sandoval (d.
1632) was a noble and Spanish religious. He was son of Lope de Moscoso
Osorio and Castro (d. 1636), VI count of Altamira, Lord of the House of
Moscoso, and Leonor de Sandoval y Rojas. I was guessing maybe that's where
they got Moscoso y Sandoval with the marrying of Lupe do Moscoso Orosio and
Leonor de Sandoval y Rojas.
I found a new pdf about just the Moscoso family:
http://www.royalrurikovich.com/images/genealogy/moscoso.pdf
It also has lots of people named Suero Vasquez de Moscoso, I didn't know
that whole name was that common. But, theres also a person with that same
name in Mexico on the other pdf with the biographies. It looks like the
Moscosos y Sandovals and the Vasquez de Moscosos are relatives, that's
maybe where Vasquez de Sandoval maybe came from.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Alex,
I've seen both surnames "Moscoso" and "Sandoval" amongst the early colonists, as well, and I think it's possible "Moscoso y Sandoval" may have been formed that way.
Rick - thanks for posting the story about the Alonso Bracamonte; super fascinating, I have read in other books, about kidnappings and forced marriages amongst encomenderos. The things these families did, to hold onto land & tributes!
Danny - thanks for posting those links, good leads.
Saludos!
Manny DIez Hermosillo
Katy Brecht, Claudia Casillas and Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton have done amazing work indexing the Guadalajara dispensas.
thanks for this list, it will help me with calculating what % of guadalajara dispensas have been indexed and what hasn't. edit:those 1790's ones are mainly pinos informacion matrimonios
i also i wanna add that i have 168609 1773-1783, sitting in my unfinished indexes folder.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dwxl6B0IGDoYE1tRNwRV3lTvo5xmfRciS-4…
Katy,
Thank you so much for the additional info!
Alex
someday i'll finish that index. i just haven't yet since some parts are just plain ol' informacion matrimonios for pinos, zacatecas and are short in length
ignore the google doc link now since someone else(linda) completed the index so i deleted that file now since the full/complete index of 168609 will be posted to my tumblr index blog and then on my backup wordpress blog
http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/post/161319773193/matrimonios-17…
ignore the google doc link now since someone else(linda) completed the index so i deleted that file now since the full/complete index of 168609 will be posted to my tumblr index blog and then on my backup wordpress blog
http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/post/161319773193/matrimonios-17…
oops, sorry for double post, there was a glitch when the reply was being processed
Thanks Alex! I appreciate you taking the time to make this list.
Regards
Denise
Thanks again Alex. I took a look at the 1708 dispensas and found the Dispensas I did not locate before of 8th great Aunt Ysavel Martin Chaves 34 yo, and Juan Dias de Argandola 58 yo. She has a son natural con PNC, but most likely it is her husbands/Primo. they say their mothers (ysavel peres and beatris Olavi would call each other primas but they dont know what degree. Now to find out how they are related.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4FW-B Dispensa
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BW93-QJ Marriage
Ysavel Martin Chaves had a natural born child named Francisco de los Santos who married Polonia Sanches de Segovia 18yo. They had a Dispensa Zacatecas, 26 Sep 1708 p155
Hi Simona,
This dispensa is mentioned in Maria Luz Montejano's Sagrada Mitra, entry #2766 and #2768 on p 553. The relationship is explained on entry #2768, and can be found on img523: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4FC-C?i=522&wc=3J48-MN5
Maria Contreras-1-Antonio Flores
Beatriz Olabi-2-Ysabel Perez
Juan Diaz-3-Ysabel Martin
Ysabel Perez, wife of Juan Martin Chavez, was the hija natural of Antonio Flores and an unnamed Coyota woman; while still an infant, she was sent to live with Gabriel Ortiz de Fuenmayor and Ysabel Perez (owners of Espiritu Santo in Pinos, at the time), who baptized her and raised her.
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hola a todos los compañeros del foro,,, por desgracia hay muchas partidas matrimoniales que se destruyeron por un incendio en la parroquia de Jalostotitlan por esos andes de 1700 no se encuentra nada
Amigos,
Me parece muy bien la idea. Si hay algun miembro aqui que tiene alguna lista preparada, o indice de algunas dispensas matrimoniales en el obispado de guadalajara--son mucho gusto los agregare al blog. Les recuerdo que alli, la informacion si es totalmente gratuita y disponible no solo para los miembros de nuestrosranchos.org - sino para qualquier persona que lo encuentre. Creo que eso es valuable para los que buscan en otros locales y nos solo en Jalisco/Zacatecas/Aguascalientes. Ayudemos tambien a los que buscan en Nayarit, Sinaloa, Nuevo Leon, Monterrey, etc...
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
-----------------------------------------
Friends, I like the idea of joining efforts to chip away at the marriage dispensations. If anyone here has prepared a list or index of dispensations found in the guadalajara archives, I will gladly add it to the blog. Please remember that the blog is available free to all - not only members of nuestrosranchos.org, but to anyone who finds it online. This is valuable to folks researching outside of Jalisco/Zacatecas/Aguascalientes. This way, we can also help those who are looking in Nayarit, Sinaloa, Nuevo Leon, Monterrey, etc...
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
Jose,
Tu propuesta me parece excelente. Los esfuerzos de Claudia han abierto importantes lineas de investigacion que debe ser fomentada. Tu tabla, donde identificas lo que ha investigado Claudia y Luz Montejano, nos permite ver donde concentrar los esfuerzos. Cabe señalar que para evitar duplicidad, habria que revisar lo que este ya incluido en el siguiente libro:
Raul J. Guerra, Jr.; Nadine M. Vasquez, and Baldomero Vela, Jr., Index to the Marriage Investigations of the Diocese of Guadalajara; Volume One: 1653-1750; Provinces of Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Nuevo Santander and Texas , published privately by the authors, 1989; printed by The University of Texas at Pan American print shop.
Yo no cuento con una copia de este libro, y se que estos autores se concentraron en el Noreste de Mexico\Texas (lo opuesto de Montejano). Sin embargo, como las dispensas en varios volumenes estan mezcladas geograficamente, dicha fuente nos permitiria avanzar aun mas rapido, al no tener que revisar los regitros de esa region.
What you propose sounds excelent. Claudia's efforts have opened important lines of investigation and we need to promote this efforts. The table where you identify what has been done by Claudia and Luz Montejano tell us where to concentrate our efforts. Its important to note that is may be worthwhile check the following book:
Raul J. Guerra, Jr.; Nadine M. Vasquez, and Baldomero Vela, Jr., Index to the Marriage Investigations of the Diocese of Guadalajara; Volume One: 1653-1750; Provinces of Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Nuevo Santander and Texas , published privately by the authors, 1989; printed by The University of Texas at Pan American print shop.
I do not have a copy of this book, but I know that the authors, as the title indicates, concentrated on the northeast of Mexico and Texas (as opposed to Montejano). However, given that dispensas are in many volumes mixed geographically, checking that source would allow us to advance more rapidly by skipping those records already included in the Guerra's book.
Just a suggestion.
Jaime Alvarado
Lamentablemente no cuento con este libro, pero si alguien del foro lo tiene podria ayudarnos dando el numero de rollos que esta incluidos en el
Me parece buena la idea. Yo quisiera saber en qué rollos se encuentran las dispensas de los libros del "Index to the Marriage Investigations of the Diocese of Guadalajara" (IMIDG), de Guerra, Vásquez & Vela, 1997. Las primeras parecen coincidir con las de Montejano Hilton (MLMH), pero las subsiguientes no las reporta Montejano.
Estas son las coincidencias que detecté entre ambos libros, pongo entre corchetes el número de rollo y números de imagen en Familysearch:
MLMH 75: Monterrey, NL, Octubre 18 de 1684 (corresponde a IMIDG 2-2) [167972, Matrimonios 1681-1687, #196-200]
MLMH 181: Monterrey, NL. Junio 6 de 1691. Exp. 192. (corresponde a IMIDG 6-2) [167979, Matrimonios 1690-1709, #76-80]
MLMH 188: Saltillo, Coah. Junio 9 de 1689. Exp. 20. (SIN correspondencia en IMIDG)[167979, Matrimonios 1690-1709, #109-115]
MLMH 191: Monterrey, NL. Agosto 20 de 1692. Exp. 138. (corresponde a IMDIG 6-5) [167979, Matrimonios 1690-1709, #121-126]
MLMH 2513: Monterrey, NL. Junio 25 de 1696. Exp. 13. (Corresponde a IMIDG 38-4) [168112, Matrimonios 1689-1796, #131-137]
MLMH 2537: Monterrey, NL. Junio 9 de 1692. Exp. 172. (Corresponde a IMIDG 38-13) [168112, Matrimonios 1689-1796, #292-297]
Saludos desde Torreón,
Victoriano Navarro
Victoriano,
El libro de Guerra y Vela que indicas es mas reciente que el que yo citaba. Contiene mas registros?
Jaime
Jaime,
Efectivamente, en 1989 se publicó el Vol. 1 del libro de Guerra que cubre de 1653-1750, y en 1997 salió el Vol. 2 que cubre de 1751-1779.
El libro de Montejano Hilton cita en cada dispensa el número de rollo del que se obtuvieron, pero el de Guerra no, aunque mencionan como fuente los microfilms de los SUD (mismos que usó Montejano Hilton).
Me llama la atención que al parecer Montejano Hilton cita más registros. Por ejemplo:
MLMH 2513: Monterrey, NL. Junio 25 de 1696. Exp. 13. (Corresponde a IMIDG 38-4) [168112, Matrimonios 1689-1796, #131-137]
MLMH 2537: Monterrey, NL. Junio 9 de 1692. Exp. 172. (Corresponde a IMIDG 38-13) [168112, Matrimonios 1689-1796, #292-297]
De MLMH 2513 a 2737 se citaron un total de 25, pero de los correspondientes IMIDG 38-4 a 38-13 sólo 10
Saludos cordiales,
Victoriano Navarro
Yo ayudo, busco yo un registros de 1876 9 de febrero calvillo. y si de alguna manera puedo ayudar para que esto este completamente terminado comentenme.
Don Jose:
Me parece muy buena su idea de crear indices definitivos de las dispensas matrimoniales de la Sagrada Mitra.
Yo le propondría subir los nombres y datos de las dispensas en una base de datos en este sitio, donde no solamente quedarian al alcance de todo el mundo gratuitamente, pero se podrian buscar nombres en un modo facil y eficaz.
Creo que seria bastante facil cambiar un poco el indice de notarias de Zacatecas para poder abarcar estos datos en un modo similar y esa base de datos permite que varios voluntarios trabajen en el proyecto simultaneamente.
As part of the indexing work we're doing with the dispensas in the Obispado de Michoacan, I stumbled upon a dispensa:
Daniel Serna I found this record today in the sagrada mitra 1821 part 2 page 839
is Juan Munguia's wife Dolores Ochoa and are they from Michocan? And is Juan Coria actually
Antonio Felix Coria wife Antonia Villasenor?
Linda
.
marriage dispensation requested from la sagrada mitra 6 July 1821 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Don Jose Maria Jaso from Tamazula living in Zapotlan 10 years age 40
widower of Dona Trinidad Ochoa 4 years buried in Guadalajara
parents: Don Rafael Jaso and Dona Maria Josefa Sanches
with Maria Guadalupe Munguia from Tamazula
parents: Don Miguel Munguia and Dona Rosalia Castaneda
marriage dispensation 3rd degree
..trunk Don Juan Munguia
Dona Leonarda Munguia....Carlos Munguia
Don Rafael Jaso..........Miguel Munguia
Don Jose Maria Jaso.... .Guadalupe Munguia
marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
..trunk.. Don Juan Coria..
Dona Teresa Coria.......Dona Gertrudis Coria
Don Miguel Munguia......Don Venito Munguia (Ochoa)
Dona Guadalupe Munguia..Don Justo Ochoa
........................Dona Trinidad Ochoa
source: 168197 sagrada mitra 1821 part 2
page 839 Familysearch online
.
Marriage: 09 AUG 1821 Tamazula De Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
Jose Maria Villasenor y Jaso
spouse: Guadalupe Mungia
Source Information: 0226027 Tamazula marriage record
Batch No.: M603764 1789 - 1824
Hi Linda,
I've looked at that dispensa. Thanks to the recent dispensas we've found from the Obispado de Michoacan, other primary sources, and previous info from other genealogists, we now have a clearer picture of the Coria/Munguia/Ochoa/Villasenor connections.
The "parentescos" called out in the 1821 dispensation have been edited to match the info we now have:
First Parentesco (Por Consanguinidad)
Second Parentesco (Por Afinidad)
Hope that helps,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Miguel Munguia and Rosalia Castañeda are my ancesters in 6 generations, can
you tell me were can I find that dispensa?
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 8:25 PM, wrote:
> Hi Linda, I've looked at that dispensa. Thanks to the recent dispensas
> we've
> found from the Obispado de Michoacan, other primary sources, and previous
> info from other genealogists, we now have a clearer picture of the
> Coria/Munguia/Ochoa/Villasenor connections. The "parentescos" called out in
> the 1821 dispensation have been edited to match the info we now have:
> *First
> Parentesco (Por Consanguinidad)*
> Tronco: Antonio de Munguia y Villegas cc Maria de Mollinedo Santa Cruz y
> Villasenor
>
> * Leonor de Munguia(cc Felix Villasenor y Jaso) -- Carlos de Munguia(cc
> Teresa de Coria y Villasenor)
> * Rafael de Villasenor y Jaso(cc Josefa Sanchez de Aldana) -- Miguel de
> Munguia(cc Rosalia Castaneda)
> * Jose Maria de Villasenor y Jaso -- Guadalupe de Munguia
> *Second Parentesco (Por Afinidad)*
> Tronco: Antonio de Coria Peralta cc Antonia de Villasenor Cervantes
>
> * Teresa de Coria y Villasenor (cc Carlos de Munguia) -- Gertrudis de
> Coria
> y Villasenor (cc Benito de Ochoa Garibay)
> * Miguel de Munguia (cc Rosalia Castaneda) -- Benito de Ochoa Garibay (cc
> Isabel Jimenez)
> * Guadalupe de Munguia -- Trinidad Ochoa Garibay
> Hope that helps. Daniel Serna Valencia
>
Dear Daniel,
There is a small mistake where Antonia should be written as the daughter of Mathias Villaseñor, and not Antonio. Here is the way it should be written:
In my post, I meant to write "This provides more evidence that she is the daughter of Antonio Coria- Peralta Rincon and Antonia Villaseñor."
I mistakenly wrote "Juana Villaseñor."
-7mo Bisabuelos: Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Coria Peralta Rincon
-8vo Bisabuelos: Matias Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Antonia Rodriguez Antúñez de Borgia (Borja)
-9no Bisabuelos: Capitan Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Ines Nuñez Hidalgo del Rincon
First one:
Tronco: Bartholome Nunez Hidalgo cc Marta del Rincon
Ana Nunez del Rincon -- Leonor Nunez del Rincon
Antonio de Coria Peralta -- Juana de Villasenor
Teresa de Coria Peralta -- Maria de Mollinedo
*********************** -- Carlos de Munguia
Second one:
Tronco: Bartholome Nunez Hidalgo cc Marta del Rincon
Inez Nunez del Rincon -- Leonor Nunez del Rincon
Matias de Villasenor -- Juana de Villasenor
Antonia de Villasenor -- Maria de Mollinedo
Teresa de Coria Peralta -- Carlos de Munguia
Whoops, I mistakenly wrote Antonio instead of Antonia, thanks for correcting that Rick.
The new information that Daniel Sena Valencia provides:
Tronco: Desconocido
Hijos: Antonia Maciel - Juan Nicolas Maciel
Nietos: Antonia Balbuena y Maciel - Maria Gertrudis Maciel
Bisnietos: Diego de Barragan - Ana de Munguia
Tataranietos: Mariana de Barragan(Difunta esposa de Salvador) - Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor
Tronco: Juana de Villasenor
Hijos: Diego Barragan - Maria de Mollinedo
Nietos: Diego Barragan - Carlos Munguia
Bisnietos: Mariana Barragan (Difunta esposa de Salvador) - Ana de Munguia
Tataranietos: ------------- - Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor
Gives us the information that we can merge with:
(4) Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.
(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor
(7) Juan Carlos Munguia Mollinedo [Carlos I] (b. 1691) cc Maria Maciel (Maciel Torres?)
(8) Carlos Juan [Carlos II] Munguia Maciel cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,
(9) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos III]
So now we know that # ( 7) Juan Carlos [Carlos I] Munguia Mollinedo's wife has Gertrudis as a middle name, Maria Gertrudis Maciel (Maciel Torres?) and that her father's name is Juan Nicolas Maciel.
So now we have
4) Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.
(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor
(7) Juan Carlos Munguia Mollinedo y Villaseñor [Carlos I ] (b. 1691) cc Maria Gertrudis Maciel (Maciel Torres?) {daughter of Juan Nicolas Maciel}.
(8) Carlos Juan [Carlos II] Munguia Maciel cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,
(9) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos III]
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The second piece of new information when added to :
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(2b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
(2c) Diego Martin Barragan y Villaseñor cc ? Balbuena
(2d) Gertrudis de Barragan y Balbuena cc Juan Francisco de Ochoa
(2e) Maria Manuela de Ochoa
Gives us the name of 2c) Diego Martin Barragan y Villaseñor's wife as Antonia Balbuena y Maciel, (daughter of Antonia Maciel, granddaughter of Juan Nicolas Maciel).
So now we have:
a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(2b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
(2c) Diego Martin Barragan y Villaseñor cc Antonia Balbuena y Maciel, (daughter of Antonia Maciel).
(2d) Gertrudis de Barragan y Balbuena cc Juan Francisco de Ochoa
(2e) Maria Manuela de Ochoa
Thank you Daniel,
Rick A. Ricci
As it turns out, Carlos Munguia married twice! I found the following dispensa related to the marriage between Carlos Munguia and Teresa de Coria:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BB99-G6?cc=1883388&cat=394235
Don Carlos Munguia y Villela originario de la jurisdn. de Tinguindin y de muchos anos a esta parte.
Vesino de la jurisdision de Tamasula. Viudo de Da. Maria Getrudis Maciel. Paresco ante Vmd.
en la mejor forma que aya lugar en dro. y digo = que para mejor serbir a Dios y salvar mi alma pretendo
contraer matrimonio segun horden de Nta. Me. Yglesia con Da. Theresa de Coria y Peralta originaria y vesina
de dha. jurisdicion d Tamasula..."
To summarize, the dispensa calls out that between Carlos and Teresa there's two "parentescos".
First one:
Second one:
Great find Daniel! This means that the Carlos Juan Munguia that I had in the tree as father and son were actually the same person with two marriages. Thank you very much for correcting my mistake. This record is also more proof that Teresa Coria de Peralta was the daughter of Antonio De Coria Peralta and Juana Villaseñor.
Carlos Juan Munguia Mollinedo
Gender Male
Christening Date 18 Dec 1691
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,ANGAMACUTIRO DE LA UNION,MICHOACAN,MEXICO
Father's Name Antonio Munguia
Mother's Name Maria De Mollinedo Villasenor
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N216-L7Z : 12 December 2014), Carlos Juan Munguia Mollinedo, 18 Dec 1691; citing SAN FRANCISCO,ANGAMACUTIRO DE LA UNION,MICHOACAN,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 608,779. "
So the corrected line looks like this:
Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.
(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor
(7) Carlos Juan [Carlos I] Munguia cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,
(8) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos II]
So now we know that # ( 7) Carlos Juan [Carlos I] Munguia Mollinedo's first wife has Gertrudis as a middle name, Maria Gertrudis Maciel (Maciel Torres?) and that her father's name is Juan Nicolas Maciel. His second wife is Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria Peralta y Villaseñor.
So now we have
4) Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.
(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor
(7) Carlos Juan [Carlos I] Munguia cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,
(8) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos II]
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The second piece of new information when added to :
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(2b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
(2c) Diego Martin Barragan y Villaseñor cc ? Balbuena
(2d) Gertrudis de Barragan y Balbuena cc Juan Francisco de Ochoa
(2e) Maria Manuela de Ochoa
Thanks again Daniel,
Rick A. Ricci
Hola a todos:
En el libro Despacho confirmatorio de los blasones de armas, nobleza y genealogía de Juan Félix RUJULA, que está en google books se puede leer la historia de los linajes Mollinedo y Santa Cruz del Valle de Arcentales.
Páginas 46 a 50.
La familia fue asesinada y sólo sobrevivió un niño que al crecer cobró venganza y construyó un castillo, sus descendientes tomaron parte en la reconquista y pasaron al sur de España.
Saludos
Marcelina
Gracias por la pista MarcelIna! Enseguida la busco, suena muy interesante!
Gracias!
Daniel Serna Valencia
Barragan Balbuena and Villaseñor connections.
Thomas Javier de Bejar y de la Cueva married his relative Maria Barragan y Balbuena, daughter of Jose Barragan y Villaseñor cc Maria Balbuena y Alcaraz. If we were able to find the marriage dispensation then we would be able to find more information on the Martin-Barragan and Balbuena y Alcaraz family lines.
Thomas Javier de Bejar y de la Cueva is the son of Manuel de Bejar y Alcocer cc Josefa de la Cueva y Diaz-Picazo.
Josefa de la Cueva y Diaz-Picazo is the daughter of Sebastian de la Cueva y Villaseñor cc Juana Maria Diaz-Picazo.
Sebastian de la Cueva y Villaseñor is the son of Juan De la Cueva y Lomelin cc Maria de Villaseñor y Nuñez-Hidalgo.
Maria de Villaseñor y Nuñez-Hidalgo is the daughter Francisco de Villaseñor y Patiño de Herrera cc Ines Nuñez-Hidalgo y Fernandez del Rincon.
More information may be found in a marriage dispensation of Thomas Javier and Maria Barragan's son Justo Bejar's marriaiage to Maria Felipa Villaseñor, daughter of Antonio Villaseñor and Ana Munguia. But the relationship may be too distant for there to be a dispensation. The marriage link is
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KH9Q-D1?mode=g&i=256&cc=18…
Justo Bejar
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 30 Nov 1775
Event Place San Francisco, Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Tomas Bejar
Mother's Name Maria Barragan
Spouse's Name Maria Felipa Villasenor
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Father's Name Antonio Villasenor
Spouse's Mother's Name Ana Munguia
Citing this Record
"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979", database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N64G-SJ4 : 16 February 2017), Tomas Bejar in entry for Justo Bejar and Maria Felipa Villasenor, 1775.
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Rick,
I found the dispensa for the marriage between Justo Bejar and Maria Felipa Villasenor:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KWSD-8R?i=92&cc=1883388&ca…
The dispensa is for 3ro con 4to grado do consanguinidad:
Tronco: Juana de Villasenor (Quien se caso dos veces)
1er grado: Diego Martin Barragan - Maria de Mollinedo
2do grado: Maria de Barragan - Carlos de Munguia
3er grado: Justo de Bejar - Ana de Munguia
4to grado: -------------- - Maria Felipa de Villasenor
I also found a second dispensa that year for the marriage between Salvador de Alcaraz (Hijo de Jose de Alcaraz + Isabel de Aguilar y Munguia) and Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor (Hija de (Antonio de Villasenor + Ana de Munguia).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K49L-KM?mode=g&i=75&cc=188…
This one is pretty interesting as Salvador married twice before, with Maria Benigna Jimenez (Hija de Bartolo Jimenez + Antonia de Anaya) and with Mariana de Barragan (Hija de Diego Barragan + Efigenia Ochoa). As a result, we get a glimpse of some of the relationships between the Villasenor, Galindo, and Maciel families. Here's the parentescos that came up in that dispensa:
===========================================================
Parentesco por afinidad (Maciel):
===========================================================
Tronco: Desconocido
Hijos: Antonia Maciel - Juan Nicolas Maciel
Nietos: Antonia Balbuena y Maciel - Maria Gertrudis Maciel
Bisnietos: Diego de Barragan - Ana de Munguia
Tataranietos: Mariana de Barragan(Difunta esposa de Salvador) - Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor
===========================================================
Parentesco por Consanguinidad (Ruiz)
===========================================================
Tronco: Luis Bernardo Ruiz
Hijos: Ines Ruiz Galindo - Maria Ruiz Galindo
Nietos: Maria de Munguia - Luisa de Bribiesca
Bisnietos: Isabel de Aguilar y Munguia - Antonio de Villasenor
Tataranietos: Salvador de Alcaraz - Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor
===========================================================
Parentesco por afinidad (Villasenor):
===========================================================
Tronco: Juana de Villasenor
Hijos: Diego Barragan - Maria de Mollinedo
Nietos: Diego Barragan - Carlos Munguia
Bisnietos: Mariana Barragan (Difunta esposa de Salvador) - Ana de Munguia
Tataranietos: ------------- - Maria Gertrudis de Villasenor
Hope that helps,
Daniel Serna Valencia
----------------------------------------------------
A) Nicolas de Munguia
B) Nicolas de Munguia b. abt. 1643 cc Ana de Liebana (m. 1660)
C). Nicolás de Munguía (b. abt 1660))cc María Infante de Villegas Velasco (b.1663)
///////:////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The lines that I know for sure from multiple records (marriages and dispensations) below:
(4) Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.
(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor
(7) Juan Carlos Munguia Mollinedo [Carlos I] (b. 1691) cc Maria Maciel (Maciel Torres?)
(8) Carlos Juan [Carlos II] Munguia Maciel cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,
(9) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos III]
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Dear Daniel Serna Valencia,
Time to answer your last question.
"
* Lastly does anyone know if Antonio Munguia and Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor are the parents of Juan Carlos Munguia cc Maria Teresa de Coria y Villasenor? (This is just a hunch given this baptism record Rick Ricci pointed out a few months back and the fact that Leonor de Munguia appears to be of the same generation as Juan Carlos Munguia and both were in Tamazula at the time):
Carlos Juan Munguia Mollinedo
Gender Male
Christening Date 18 Dec 1691
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,ANGAMACUTIRO DE LA UNION,MICHOACAN,MEXICO
Father's Name Antonio Munguia
Mother's Name Maria De Mollinedo Villasenor
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N216-L7Z : 12 December 2014), Carlos Juan Munguia Mollinedo, 18 Dec 1691; citing SAN FRANCISCO,ANGAMACUTIRO DE LA UNION,MICHOACAN,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 608,779. "
The answer is that this Carlos Juan Muguia that is born in 1691 is the paternal grandfather of the Juan Carlos Munguia that is married to Maria Teresa Coria y Villaseñor. I will provide more information later.
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Rick and Enrique,
(Enrique, fue todo un placer colaborar con ustedes, y por supuesto, cuenten conmigo!!!)
Rick,
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for your help in piecing together where the Molinedo Santa Cruz y Villasenor sisters fit in, with regards to the Villasenor family tree.
Regarding your questions about the Martin Barragan's... Unfortunately, I don't have any information to contribute, as of yet. If/when we turn up any info that pertains to the branch you called out, I'll let you know.
Lastly, regarding the Munguias... A couple of nights ago I found a dispensa for the marriage between:
Gaspar Miguel de Covarrubias (Hijo de Francisco de Covarrubias + Nicolasa de Betancur) and Maria Teresa de Munguia (Hija de Antonio de Munguia + Maria de Molinedo Santa Cruz y Villasenor)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5TC2-V?i=282&cc=1883388&ca…
To sum up the dispensa, it's for "Por cuanto (Gaspar Miguel) tenia parentesco con la dicha (Maria Teresa) de tercero con quarto de sanguinidad". The relationship is as follows:
(Gaspar Miguel de Covarrubias):
Tronco: Juan de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
* Isabel de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
* Maria de Munguia y Villegas cc Antonio de Covarrubias
* Francisco de Covarrubias cc Nicolasa de Betancur
* Gaspar Miguel de Covarrubias
(Maria Teresa de Munguia)
Tronco: Juan de Munguia y Villegas cc ???
* Fernando de Munguia y Villegas cc ??? (*I have a suspicion -unconfirmed- that the wife may have been Juana de Oceguera, daughter of Pedro de Oceguera + Lucia Cervantes from Tinguindin)
* Antonio de Munguia cc Maria de Molinedo Santa Cruz y Villasenor (*The dispensa calls out that Antonio and Maria married in Tinguindin)
* Maria Teresa de Munguia
Please let me know what additional details you have to this part of the puzzle.
Thank you as always,
Daniel Serna Valencia
5to Bisabuelo: Josefa de Villasenor y Jaso cc Juan Jose de la Cueva
-6to Bisabuelos : Leonor de Munguia cc Felix Gerardo Villasenor y Jasso
-7mo Bisabuelos: Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor cc Antonio Munguia
-8vo Bisabuelos: Juana Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Bartholome de Mollinedo
-9no Bisabuelos: Diego Orozco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Leonor Nuñez Duran Hidalgo del Rincon
-10mo Bisabuelo: Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra
-11mo Bisabuelo: Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
-12vo Bisabuelo: Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara
13) Bisabuelos: Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)
14) Bisabuelos: Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)
15) Bisabuelos: comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla
16) Bisabuelos: Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)
17) Bisabuelos: Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia
18) Bisabuelos: Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor
19) Bisabuelo: Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)
/////////////////////////////////////
-7mo Bisabuelos: Diego de Acebedo Carbajal y Villaseñor and Marzela Cobian y Villaseñor
-8vo Bisabuelos: Francisca Villaseñor y Nuñez Rincon and Diego de Acebedo Carbajal
-9no Bisabuelos: Capitan Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Ines Nuñez Hidalgo del Rincon
-10mo Bisabuelo: Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra
-11mo Bisabuelo: Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
-12vo Bisabuelo: Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara
13) Bisabuelos: Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)
14) Bisabuelos: Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)
15) Bisabuelos: comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla
16) Bisabuelos: Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)
17) Bisabuelos: Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia
18) Bisabuelos: Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor
19) Bisabuelo: Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
5to Bisabuelo: Ana Josefa Petra Cobian Zuñiga cc Vicente Martin de Barragan
-6to Bisabuelos : Joseph Manuel Cobian y Villaseñor cc Isabel Silva Zuñiga de Montenegro
-7mo Bisabuelos: Lorenza Villasenor cc Juan de Cobian Velasco
-8vo Bisabuelos: Juana Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Bartholome de Mollinedo
-9no Bisabuelos: Diego Orozco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Leonor Nuñez Duran Hidalgo del Rincon
-10mo Bisabuelo: Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra
-11mo Bisabuelo: Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
-12vo Bisabuelo: Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara
13) Bisabuelos: Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)
14) Bisabuelos: Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)
15) Bisabuelos: comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla
16) Bisabuelos: Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)
17) Bisabuelos: Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia
18) Bisabuelos: Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor
19) Bisabuelo: Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)
Rick A. Ricci
I made correction/additions to lines 1 & 2, and added more lines of relatives.
(1b) (5b) (6b) Bartholome de Mollinedo---(1b),(2b),(3b)(4b),(5b),(6b),(7b) Juana de Villasenor --- (2b), (3b),(4b), (7b) Diego Martin Barragan
a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(1b) Juana de Villasenor cc Bartholome de Mollinedo
(1c) Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor cc Antonio Munguia
(1d) Leonor de Munguia cc Felix Gerardo Villasenor y Jasso
(1e) Josefa de Villasenor y Jaso cc Juan Jose de la Cueva
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(2b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
(2c) Diego Martin Barragan cc ? Balbuena
(2d) Gertrudis de Barragan y Balbuena cc Juan Francisco de Ochoa
(2e) Maria Manuela de Ochoa
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(3b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
(3c) Diego Martin Barragan cc ? Balbuena
(3d) Juan Jose de Barragan y Balbuena cc Gertrudis Maciel y Torres
(3e) Maria Francisca Maciel Barragan cc Juan Joseph Moxica y Villaseñor
Proposed ancestry for Gaspar Martin de Barragan:
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(4b)Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
? (4c) Diego Martin Barragan cc ? Balbuena
(4d) Gaspar Martin de Barragan y Balbuena cc Theresa Torres y Maciel
(4e) Vicente Martin de Barragan cc Ana Josefa Petra Cobian
a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(5b) Juana de Villasenor cc Bartholome de Mollinedo
(5c) Lorenza Villasenor cc Juan de Cobian Velasco
(5d) Joseph Manuel Cobian y Villaseñor cc Isabel Silva Zuñiga de Montenegro
(5e) Ana Josefa Petra Cobian Zuñiga cc Vicente Martin de Barragan (see 4e)
a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(6b) Juana de Villasenor cc Bartholome de Mollinedo
(6c) Lorenza Villasenor cc Juan de Cobian Velasco
(6d) Joseph Manuel Cobian y Villaseñor cc Isabel Silva Zuñiga de Montenegro
(6e) Eduardo Francisco Cobian cc Maria Manuela Martin de Barragan (see 7e)
Proposed ancestry for Gaspar Martin de Barragan:
(a) Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
(7b) Juana Villaseñor cc Diego Martin Barragan
? (7c) Diego Martin Barragan cc ? Balbuena
(7d) Gaspar Martin de Barragan y Balbuena cc Theresa Torres y Maciel
(7e) Maria Manuela Martin de Barragan cc Eduardo Francisco Cobian (see 6e)
? Villaseñor
(? Villaseñor
(d) Rosa Viillaseñor cc Joseph Moxica (Muxica)
(e) Juan Joseph Moxica y Villaseñor cc Maria Francisca Maciel Barragan (see 3e)
Rick A. Ricci
Key Source:
["Among the witnesses we have Antonio de Villasenor who states the following:
Tronco: Juana de Villasenor, quien se caso dos veces:
* En primer matrimonio con Dn. Bartholome Mollinedo con quien tuvo a Maria Mollinedo y Villasenor. Maria Mollinedo y Villasenor tuvo a Leonor de Munguia, madre de la difunta Da. Josefa de Villasenor y Jaso
* En segundas nupcias se caso con Dn. Diego Martin Barragan y tuvo por hijo a otro Dn. Diego Martin Barragan. Este tuvo a Da. Gertrudis de Barragan, madre de Maria Manuela de Ochoa." (Source Daniel Serna Valencia's copy of marriage dispensation)]
Juan Joseph Muxica
Spouse's Name Maria Francisca Maciel Barragan
Event Date 15 Jan 1747
Event Place San Francisco, Tamazula De Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name Joseph Muxica
Mother's Name Rosa Villasenor
Spouse's Father's Name Juan Joseph Barragan Y Balbuena
Spouse's Mother's Name Gertrudis Maciel Y Torres
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N69N-JHR : 14 July 2015), Juan Joseph Muxica and Maria Francisca Maciel Barragan, 15 Jan 1747; citing San Francisco, Tamazula De Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,026
We put up many questions on this family, found much information, but I haven't had a chance to process all the data yet and I am still unclear as to which questions have been answered, and which remain.
And I still have more questions to add.
Question 1 is answered:
1) Jose Manuel Cobian Villaseñor married Isabel Silva Zuñiga Montenegro on 20/July/1726. Jose Manuel Cobian Villaseñor was a widower when he married Micaela Rita Ochoa Osegura. Jose Manuel and Juan Manuel have been proven to not be the same person and are brothers.
2) my first cousins ancestor, Ana Josefa Petra Cobian Zuñiga, is the daughter of Joseph Manuel Cobian y Villaseñor and Isabel Silva Zuñiga Montenegro. Ana Josefa Petra Cobian Zuñiga married Vicente Barragan, son of Gaspar Martin Barragan and Theresa Torres y Maciel. How is Gaspar Martin Barragan related to Diego Martin Barragan that is the second husband of Juana Villaseñor.
Joseph Manuel Cobian y Villaseñor and Isabel Silva Zuñiga Montenegro are the parents of Eduardo Francisco Covian y Silva who married Maria Manuela de Barragan, daughter of Gaspar Martin Barragan and Theresa Thorres y Maciel.
Gaspar Martin Barragan and Theresa Thorres y Maciel have a son named Diego Raphael Martin Barragan who married Francisca Galindo Y Ochoa.
Gaspar Martin Barragan and Theresa Thorres y Maciel are the parents of Antonia Barragan who married Miguel Villaseñor, son of Felix Villasenor.
3) we have multiple Villaseñor relationships within all these families. It is important that we keep all the lines straight. I still need to find time to slowly review all the dispensas that have come forth in this thread but was wondering if someone has already done so, and if so, figured out the if the Tio Joseph Villaseñor was an uncle on only one side or both sides?
4) Does anyone have more information on Gaspar Martin Barragan and Theresa Torres y Maciel?
5) How is Juan de Dios Villaseñor, that is married to Maria Rita de Los Dolores Sanchez, related to these Villaseñor lines? Juan de Dios Villaseñor and Maria Rita are the parents of Maria del Carmen Villaseñor that was married to Jose Manuel DJ Herrera Gascon.
6) juan de Dios Villaseñor may be the same Juan de Dios Villaseñor that is a son of Eugenio Cayetano Villaseñor y Esparza and Francisca Romero y Alvarado. Eugenio Cayetano is the son of Juan Villaseñor and Maria Xaviera Esparza. Does anybody have any information on Juan Villaseñor and Maria Xaviera Esparza?
My cousin that descends from "Jose Manuel Cobian Villaseñor and Isabel Silva Zuñiga Montenegro" did write a book that was published by the university of Guadalajara but it does not have any of the information that we have covered here. His book was limited to the familytree in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
¡Daniel estoy sumamente agradecido contigo, has resuelto el caso que nos tenía a todos en duda desde hace años!
Eres un genealogista muy talentoso, un excelente miembro del grupo.
Espero contemos con tu apoyo en nuevos temas de foro, por lo pronto el caso de Las Molinedo ha sido descifrado.
Saludos!
Enrique Agraz
Researching the Mollinedo de Santa Cruz in the 14th through 16th centuries is a little tricky because during this time in Basque Country surnames changed according to circumstances. Not everyone in the family used "Mollinedo" as their surname. The surname did not even start out as Mollinedo. I have the different surnames that this family used and am working on putting together the family tree. By the 16th century the surnames used more often were Traslaviña, Mollinedo, Santa Cruz, and the surnames combined Mollinedo de Santa Cruz. A family tree on geanenent has obvious errors as the Bishop clearly identifies different parents in his letters.
I explained the situation in an earlier post on my Ochoa Garibay Martinez ibanez de Uncella ancestors. Here is the post:
" [ Change in surnames according to location given
Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Mon, 2016-05-30 20:47.
Someone asked me to explain the change in surnames in the Ochoa-Garibay pedigree.
If someone here in West Los Angeles asked where I live I would say Mar Vista. If I was in Northern California I would answer Los Angeles. if I was in another state, let's say a state clear across the country on the eastern coast, I would answer California. If I was in another country, I would answer the United States of America. This is how the surname sometimes changed from one generation to the next for Spaniards in the 15th and 16th centuries. The surnames didn't always change permanently. This was a naming pattern in these basque provinces. Some families kept their same surname even if they moved around. Some other families changed their surname often. In some families everyone changed their surname if one person changed his surname, in other families, every sibling may have a different surname.
Juan Martinez de Uncella de Mondragon de Aramayona de Alava
Ivan (Juan) son of Martin residing in the church jurisdiction of Uncella in the Villa Mondragon, from the valley Aramayona, from the Alava province, Basque Country, Spain.
Iglesia de Uncella from the Valle Aramayona, provincia Alava,
Villa de Mondragon
Later! Ybarlucea and Garibay show up as part of the surname. We have Martin Ochoa Ybarlucea becoming Martin Ochoa Garibay. The change is Ybarlucea to Garibay, from the banks of the river where the fern grows in Elorrio (Ybarlucea) to the valley where Elorrio is located (Garibay)
The banks where the fern grows in Elorrio= Ybarlucea
Valle de Elorrio= Garibay
Provincia de Guipozcoa
Basque Country
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci ]"
Hola a todos,
Les agradezco por los datos tan valiosos que han aportado.
Daniel, las dispensas que nos compartiste son de inmensa ayuda para esclarecer la genealogía de los Covarrubias. Sin tu aporte, seguiríamos en la incertidumbre.
María, te agradezco las referencias de los pasajeros a Nueva España de los Molinedo. Eso nos da nuevas ideas de dónde buscar.
Rick, me gustó mucho tu explicación del cambio de apellidos según las circunstancias de lugar. Buena analogía la de California. Te felicito.
Espero pronto encontrar información para publicar y abordar en este foro de discusión.
Enrique Agraz
...que se llamaron Diego de Acevedo y Carbajal y Marcela de Cobian y Villaseñor. Sabemos que se casaron en Tamazula el 28 de Mayo de 1711:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KH9W-NV?mode=g&i=35&wc=3J6…
Existe la sospecha de que se ocupo tramitar una dispensa matrimonial por el hecho de que los novios tenian un parentesco por parte de los Villaseñor. Pues, aqui les presento la dispensa para armar el rompecabezas de los Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villaseñor:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DM2W-1?mode=g&i=149&cc=188…
La dispensa confirma que Lorenza de Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villaseñor fue hija de Juana de Villaseñor y Bartholome Mollinedo Santa Cruz!!!
Gracias a todos por la ayuda y las pistas que me ayudaron a encontrar las dispensas. Disfrutemos todos los frutos de nuestra investigacion!
Daniel Serna Valencia
GRACIAS POR COMPARTIR ESTA INFORMACION AQUI, YO TAMBIEN SIN QUERER ME
BENEFICIE, ME LLAMO LA ATENCION EL APELLIDO COVIAN Y REVISE EN MI ARCHIVO Y
TENIA A JUAN COVIAN Y LORENZA VILLASENOR Y AL MIRAR EL ACTA TAMBIEN ME DI
CUENTA QUE LOS DOS LLEVABAN EL APELLIDO VILLASENOR , ME IMAGINE QUE HABIA
PARENTESCO( TODAVIA NO VEO LA INF. MATRIMONIAL) PERO ME AYUDASTE MUCHO
PORQUE YO NO TENIA A MARCELA COMO HIJA DE ELLOS, TAMBIEN SOY DESCENDIENTE
DE ELLOS PORQUE JUANA MARIA MAXIMA COVIAN ERA BISNIETA DE ELLOS ES LA MADRE
DE MI BISABUELA.LO QUE ME LLAMA MUCHO LA ATENCION ES QUE EN EL ACTA DE
MATRIMONIO DE MARIA MAXIMA COVIAN DICE QUE ELLA ERA MULATA ASI QUE NO SE
QUE TAN CIERTO SEA ESO ELLA SE CASO CON ANTONIO GOMEZ PENA Y A EL LO
PUSIERON COMO ESPANOL
2017-04-21 19:22 GMT-06:00 :
> ...que se llamaron Diego de Acevedo y Carbajal y Marcela de Cobian y
> Villaseñor. Sabemos que se casaron en Tamazula el 28 de Mayo de 1711:
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KH9W-NV?mode=g&
> i=35&wc=3J63-3TL%3A172864801%2C172712102%2C175460301&cc=1874591
> Existe la sospecha de que se ocupo tramitar una dispensa matrimonial por el
> hecho de que los novios tenian un parentesco por parte de los Villaseñor.
> Pues, aqui les presento la dispensa para armar el rompecabezas de los
> Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villaseñor:
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DM2W-1?mode=g&i
> =149&cc=1883388&cat=394235
> La dispensa confirma que Lorenza de Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villaseñor fue
> hija de Juana de Villaseñor y Bartholome Mollinedo Santa Cruz!!! Gracias a
> todos por la ayuda y las pistas que me ayudaron a encontrar las dispensas.
> Disfrutemos todos los frutos de nuestra investigacion! Daniel Serna
> Valencia
>
Hola estimados Daniel y Rick,
Les agradezco demasiado los datos que nos han aportado en este foro. Desciendo de María de Molinedo y Villaseñor y de Lorenza de Villaseñor.
Gracias a la dispensa que nos aportó Daniel, confirmamos la identidad de los padres de María, Bartolomé Molinedo Santa Cruz y Juana de Villaseñor. Y en conjunto con Rick se llegó hasta la generación de sus abuelos paternos y maternos.
Me gustaría señalar algunos datos ya aportados y agregar otros que confirman esta conclusión.
1. Antonio Munguía y María de Molinedo y Villaseñor tuvieron varios hijos y eligieron como padrinos a sus familiares. El padrino de Isabel fue José de Villaseñor-Hidalgo, su tío (tío abuelo en teoría). Los padrinos de José fueron el mismo José de Villaseñor y su madre Leonor Durán (tío abuelo y bisabuela). María también bautizada por su tío José.
2. María de Molinedo y Villaseñor tuvo una hermana llamada Leonor. Esto lo sé porque en el acta de bautismo de Bernardo de Zúñiga (mestizo) fechada en 1687 en Angamacutiro de la Unión fungen como padrinos "Antto. Mungia y Da. Leonor de Molinedo, su cuñada españoles todos de la Palma".
Ahora viene la siguiente pregunta, ¿Es Lorenza de Villaseñor casada con Juan de Cobián, hermana de María de Molinedo y Villaseñor? Estoy seguro que la respuesta es sí, porque Lorenza utilizó asimismo los apellidos de Molinedo Santa Cruz aunque en menos ocasiones. Además fue de la misma generación que María de Molinedo.
Hay un foro aparte donde escribí los padrinos de bautismo de cada hijo de Lorenza http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/20163
Aquí sólo señalaré como viene su nombre en cada documento.
1. Marcela (1692), su madre Leonor de Villaseñor.
2. José (1694), su madre Leonor de Villaseñor.
3. Domingo (1696), su madre Leonor de Villaseñor.
4. Josefa María (1703), su madre Leonor de Villaseñor.
5. Antonio (1705), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
6. Joaquín (1708), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
7. Juan (1710), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
8. En el acta de matrimonio de su hija Marcela (1711), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
9. En el acta de matrimonio de su hija Juana (1719), su madre Lorenza de Santa Cruz.
10.En la dispensa de su hija Josefa María para casar con Leonardo de Covarrubias y Betancur (1723), su madre viene como Lorenza de Villaseñor y Molinedo. En esta se menciona un parentesco de cuarto grado igual de consanguinidad.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5VSD-VL?mode=g&cc=1883388&…
10. En el acta de matrimonio de su hijo José Manuel (1726), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
11. En el acta de matrimonio de su hijo Antonio (1733), su madre Lorenza Molinedo Santa Cruz Villaseñor.
12. En el acta de matrimonio de su hijo Juan Manuel Cobián (1744), su madre Lorenza de Villaseñor.
13. En el acta de matrimonio de su hijo Joaquín (1745) su madre viene como Lorenza del Rincón Villaseñor.
Sólo en tres documentos de matrimonio se menciona a Lorenza con los apellidos de su padre, en 1719, 1723 y 1733.Eso podría estar relacionado a lo siguiente, en Angamacutiro de la Unión en 1679 se bautizó a un niño llamado Blas, hijo de Pedro Molinedo Santa Cruz y Juana de Alvarado (mestizos), fue su padrino Don José de Villaseñor.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BRF1-K?mode=g&i=178&wc=3NB…
Sería éste Pedro, el primogénito de 17 años aprox. de Bartolomé y Juana de Villaseñor? Por qué sería considerado mestizo? Sería hermano de Bartolomé y por lo tanto los dos serían mestizos? Tal vez esa sería la razón por la que Lorenza no utilizaría su apellido paterno en primer término y también el hecho de que el apellido Villaseñor pesaba más en aquel entonces.
Finalmente es importante mencionar que Lorenza no vivía en Angamacutiro con su familia porque la familia de su esposo, los Cobían, residían en la zona de Tamazula.
Tengo algunas preguntas para ustedes,
1. ¿Leonor Núñez-Durán y del Rincón fue hija de Bartolomé Núñez-Hidalgo y Marta Fernández del Rincón?
2. ¿De quién es hijo Diego Orozco de Villaseñor?
3. ¿Saben algo del origen de los Molinedo Santa Cruz?
4. ¿Tienen más datos para apoyar la teoría de que Lorenza y María son hermanas?
5. En la dispensa de Josefa María Cobián y Villaseñor para casar con Leonardo de Covarrubias y Betancur (1723)se menciona un cuarto grado igual de consanguinidad. Con los datos nuevos aportados sabemos el nombre de los bisabuelos maternos de Josefa pero aún así no he podido descifrar bien el parentesco. A mi me da un parentesco de tercer grado igual por ser Antonio de Covarrubias y María de Velasco hermanos (hijos de José de Covarrubias y Gerónima de Velasco). Según mis apuntes Antonio fue padre de Francisco y éste de Leonardo de Covarrubias. María fue madre de Juan de Cobián y éste de Josefa María de Cobián ¿Qué información tienen ustedes al respecto?
Muchas gracias por sus aportaciones,
¡Feliz Domingo de Pascua!
Enrique Agraz
Estimado Enrique,
Gracias por tus palabras y los datos que ofreces. Me da alegria saber que te he podido ayudar. Pero no tengo respuestas porque me encuentro con muchas de las mismas preguntas. Y una mas. Tu piensas que Lorenza de Villaseñor casada con Juan de Cobián, es hermana de María de Molinedo y Villaseñor. Pero yo no estoy tan seguro porque se metío la idea en mi celebro que es su hija. Yo creo que tu tienes mas informacion que yo para asegurar que son hermanas, pero si el documento dice que la relacion es tercer con quarto grado, si puede ser que mi idea no esta mal.
En mis notas tengo que la familia " Mollinedo de Santa Cruz" viene de Sevilla. En Sevilla, algunos miembros de la familia tomaron el apellido Molinedo y otros "Santa Cruz".
Muchas gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Estimado Rick:
Gracias por tu tiempo en contestarme. Creo que María de Molinedo es hermana mayor de Lorenza. Sería poco probable que fuera su hija, primero porque en algún momento Lorenza hubiera utilizado el apellido Munguía, como sí lo hicieron los otros hijos de María.
Segundo, María comienza a registrar hijos en 1687 y Lorenza en 1692, es decir con 5 años de diferencia. Los padres de María, Bartolomé de Molinedo y Juana de Villaseñor se casan en 1662, suponiendo que María fuese su primogénita y se desposara por muy joven a los 15 años en 1678, Lorenza debría ser primogénita a su vez y casado por los 14-15 años para tener hijos en 1692. Lo cual me parece improbable.
Lo único que me hace reconsiderar es que en el Padrón de 1682 que nos compartió Daniel, no se menciona a Lorenza. Será que por alguna razón la separaron de su familia y vivió en Tamazula desde pequeña? Tal vez ahí conoció a Juan de Cobián y no él a ella en Angamacutiro para llevársela a Tamazula o ¿Sería hija de otro matrimonio Molinedo-Villaseñor? Hasta ahora no me he enterado de otra unión entre esos dos linajes.
La relación de parentesco de la dispensa mencionada, sería por el lado de los Cobián y Covarrubias. La que podría ayudarnos en este caso sería la de Diego de Acevedo Carvajal y Villaseñor con Marcela de Cobián y Villaseñor, hija de Lorenza. La madre de Diego, Francisca de Villaseñor, fue hija de Francisco de Villaseñor e Inés Núñez-Hidalgo. Ahí el parentesco sería de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad por ser Inés (abuela de Diego), hermana de la bisabuela de Marcela, Leonor Núñez-Durán. Sin embargo en el acta de matrimonio de Diego y Marcela no se menciona el parentesco ni he encontrado dispensa.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KH9W-NV?i=35&wc=3J63-3TL%3…
Saludos,
Enrique Agraz
Buenas Noches,
Hoy por la noche me encontre con la sorpresa de pasar por una dispensa para el matrimonio de
Francisco de Covarrubias (Viudo de Nicolasa de Betancur) con Maria de Cobian:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-525W-4?i=50&cc=1883388&cat…
Desafortunadamente, no nos da respuesta directa a la pregunta de quien fueron los padres de Lorenza de Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villasenor. Pero... Si nos da a saber mas de la familia Covarrubias y la familia Cobian/Mollinedo Santa Cruz y Villasenor. Ojala les sirva.
Daniel Serna Valencia
Aqui esta otra dispensa:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5KSF-MB?i=64&cc=1883388&ca…
Como Jacinto fue hijo de Francisco, de cual se refiere en las dispensa que encontre ayer, el parentesco es el mismo.
Daniel Serna Valencia
Hola a todos:
Aquí les mando estos registros
CONTRATACION 5901,n.8 AÑO 1628
Información y licencia de pasajero a Juan Mollinedo de Santa Cruz, vecino del Valle de Liendo, hijo de Lucas de Mollinedo y Francisca Machón de Ahedo a Nueva España. (Contiene imagenes)
CONTRATACION 448, N.1, R.11
Autos sobre los bienes de Jerónimo de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz, difunto en Indias, heredero Lucas Mollinedo de Santa Cruz, su padre. (Contiene imágenes)
CONTRATACION 5484,N.1, R.23
Licencia Fernando de Mollinedo, criado, natural del valle de Arcentales, hijo de Lucas Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y de María del Cerro a Nueva España.
Saludos
Marcelina
Los Mollinedo de Santa Cruz son del la Iglesia de Santa Cruz en ell valle de Arcentales. La familia Mollinedo de Santa Cruz desciende de un huerfano. Mataron a toda su familia cercana y fue el unico que quedo vivo. Lo llevaron a vivir con familia mas lejana. Cuando crecio aprendio la historia de la muerte de su familia y tomo venganza. La vida de este huerfano Mollinedo de Santa Cruz parece pelicula.
ES.41091.AGI/1.16404.42.3.231//CONTRATACION,5438,N.30 MANUEL DE MOLLINEDO 1672-01-25 Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a Indias de Manuel de Mollinedo, obispo de la catedral de Cuzco, a Perú, con las siguientes personas. - Juan Antonio Ortíz de Luengas Palacio, criado, natural del concejo de Santiago del Valle de Tudela, hijo de Juan Francisco Ortíz de Luengas Palacios y de Jacinta de Viergol - Lucas de Mollinedo, criado, natural del Valle de Arcentales, hijo de Feliciano de Mollinedo y Santa Cruz y de María de Henales Mollinedo - Francisco Zorrilla, criado, natural de Bentades, hijo de Juan Zorrilla y de Dominga de Bentales - Martín de Irure, criado, natural de Plasencia, hijo de Juan Andrés de Irure y de Antonia de Asensio - Gaspar de Mollinedo, criado, sobrino, natural del Valle de Arcentales, hijo de Luis de Mollinedo y de Agueda de Rado y Vedia - Gabriel de Somiano, criado, natural del Concejo de Galdames, hijo de Pedro de Somiano y de Juana de Lezirrialabe
Rick A. Ricci
There are a few threads to pull in seeking to extend the Munguia family line past Antonio Munguia married to Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor.
First thread is Hernando de Munguía y de Isabel de Velasco
Second thread is Miguel de Munguia (abt 1640) married to Juana Bautista.
Third thread is Thomas Munguia married to Mariana Sanchez Aldana
Fourth thread Christobal Munguia married to Justina Micaela
Rick A. Ricci
Thank YOU for all the help Rick. I'm glad that I was able to contribute to your research along the way!
I'll take a look at the threads you called out and will see if there are any additional dispensas that can help glue and piece together the Munguia family tree. I'll let you know if I find anything as such.
Best,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes married to Inés Núñez Hidalgo. Inés Núñez Hidalgo is the daughter of îBartolomé Núñez Hidalgo y Marta del Rincón.
Rick A. Ricci
Both Leonor de Munguia and Felix (Feliz, Felis) Gerardo Villasenor y Jasso (Xasso, Gasso, Yasso) descend from a Villaseñor line so many questions may be answered if we were to find a marriage dispensation on this couple. Remember that Leonor de Munguia's (Murguia) Paternal grandmother is Josepha Villaseñor. The uncle is a big clue. It would help If we can figure out if he is an uncle on only one side, or both sides.
Pedro Villasenor Orosco and wife Maria Jasso are the parents of Felix (Feliz, Felis) Gerardo Villasenor y Jasso (Xasso, Gasso, Yasso).
If my notes are correct, Pedro Sebastian Villaseñor Orozco De la Cueva is the son of Pedro de Villaseñor Orozco Figueroa and Maria Cueva Lomelin.
Pedro de Villaseñor Orozco Figueroa is the son of Miguel Villaseñor Gasca and Maria Figueroa Bañuelos.
Maria Jasso Ochoa is the daughter of Juan Jasso and Magdalena Ochoa. She is said to be of the same Jasso family of St. Francisco Xavier (Jasso) [St Francis Xavier is my Ruiz de Esparza ancestor's third cousin.
I posted how St.. Francisco Xavier is related to the Ruiz de Esparza in a post a few months ago. This information is in a book that I have almost finished.
Manny Diez Hermosillo has sent me much information on the Villaseñor family. One piece of the puzzle may break down one of these brickwalls. In this puzzle piece the name is Juana Villaseñor instead of Josepha Villaseñor. Bartolome Mollineda de Santa Cruz y Carrasa con Juana Villasenor Rincon 30 Sep 1662 HL Pedro Mollineda de Santa Cruz y Carrasa cc Leonor de Acuna y Mendoza DTA
HLa Diego Orozco Villasenor DTO y Leonor Duran Rincon
If you descend from this line you will most likely want to get my book when it gets published as it extends this line many centuries to Italy where the family has many members that become Cardinals and Popes, and another line to the Middle East (house of David). It even shows where one family member left to go to England and became an important advisor to the english royal court. A Spanish line goes to the eighth century.
Rick A. Ricci
B-I-N-G-O! Thank you so much Rick and Manny! It's like Christmas in April. :-) I made a mistake in my initial post, it's Juana de Villasenor who married twice, not Josefa! So post where Manny calls out that specific marriage between Juana Villasenor Rincon and Bartholome Mollinedo Santa Cruz is the same couple! Here's the link to the marriage information for Juana and Bartholome:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5V96-MC?mode=g&i=1448&wc=3…
With the pieces of one puzzle put together, the picture looks like this:
Diego de Villasenor Orozco cc Leonor Nunez Duran y del Rincon
Juana de Villasenor y Rincon cc Bartholome de Mollinedo Santa Cruz
Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor cc Antonio Munguia
Leonor Munguia cc Felix Gerardo Villasenor y Jaso
Josefa de Villasenor y Jaso cc Juan Jose de la Cueva
I don't directly descend from the Villasenor y Jaso line, my wife most likely does given the facts around these families and how close they were. (Regardless, I'm very much looking forward to your book!)
I was chasing this angle for the Munguia part. I'm pretty close to declaring that Carlos Munguia cc Maria Teresa de Coria y Villasenor was a child of Antonio Munguia and Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor. I'm sure I'll find a definitive answer in some other dispensa. The search continues!
Thanks Again Rick!
Daniel Serna Valencia
There is a very strong case that Carlos Munguia married to Maria Theresa de Coria y Villasenor was a child of Antonio Munguia and Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor. The baptismal record showing that they had a son with that same name, in the same time frame, same locale, and the appearance of Mollinedo and De la Cruz in records supports this conclusion. Additional support comes from the appearance of Padrinos in the family records.
Thank you Daniel Serna and Manny Diez,. Your questions and puzzle pieces that you have provided have contributed greatly to my research.
Remember Daniel Serna that I already have some of your family tree and you do descend from the families that I am researching in Europe and the Middle East. Your information will be included in my book.
I do have some more information to add in response to your initial questions. There were so many questions that I couldn't wait to answer all as I was curious as to whether Juana and Josepha were the same person.
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
I need to really take a look since this is part of my maternal lineage going down to Maria Mercedes Munguia married to Longinos Gutierrez my gr-grandparents.
~
4th Great Grandfather of Dolores Gutierrez wife of Chet Castanon
.
marriage 15 Nov 1739 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Carlos Munguia from Tamazula
with Dona Theresa de Coria from Tamazula
grandparents not listed
witness: Don Benito Ochoa, Juan Manuel Dias and others
godparents; Don Antonio Villasenor and Dona Ana Munguia
source: 226026 film
page 84 Family search online
.
Here's another interesting clue as to what branch of the Villasenor, Maria de Mollinedo y Villasenor and her mother, Juana de Villasenor belong to... In the book, "Partidos y Padrones del Obispado de Michoacan - 1680-1685" for the Pueblo de Puruandiro (Pg. 60) we see the following inhabitants of the "Hacienda de la Palma" in 1682:
Dona Leonor Nunes Duran
Don Joseph de Villasenor
Juana de Villasenor
Dona Maria de Molinedo
Dona Leonor de Molinedo
Don Pedro Molinedo
Diego Nunes Idalgo
Dona Josepha de Ontiberos
Diego Nunes
Gabriel Nunes
Maria de Ontiberos
Dona Francisca de Ontiberos
Nicolasa del Rincon
and a few other folks.
Antonio Munguia and Maria Mollinedo y Villasenor were married sometime between 1682 and 1686 given that we see them baptizing their first child in Angamacutiro, Michoacan:
Jose Munguia on 7/13/1687:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BJX6-D?mode=g&i=176&cc=188…
The padrinos are listed as "D. Jose de Villasr. y su madre Dona Leonor Duran" who from the padron is listed as Leonor Nunez Duran.
In the baptism for another child of Antonia and Maria:
Isabel Munguia on 8/28/1689:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BJXH-W?mode=g&cc=1883388&c…
The padrino is again "Don Joseph de Vasenor Ydalgo, su tio", su tio!
So, how does the Villasenor-Hidalgo and Nunez-Duran fit into the overall Villasenor picture? How are they related to other Villasenor lines?
Thanks,
Daniel Serna Valencia
I'm searching for the baptismal record of an ancestor and the book Baustimos 1805-1821 is missing years 1812-1820 starting at image 351.
I am trying to figure out the connection between the Roman Family and the Palomino family.
The record states Antonio Palomino the first one, is natural from Aguascalientes, Single 20 years old, Jornalero, with his residence in the area of Lerdo, La senora (his mother Castaneda) is from Rafael, Aguascalientes, Mx. The second, La Senorita Gonzales is from San Miguel, Mesquital, Zacatecas, Mexico, 14 years old also with residence en el Partido Lerdo.
The following is the record in www.Familysearch.org
Valente Palomino
1842–1904 • LVGS-J47
Maria Ramona Castaneda Palomino
1852–1926 • LVGS-JF2
Marriage: 1879
San Rafael Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Thank you very much! I appreciate the help :) :)
Several days ago I tried to just say thanks a lot to Daniel Méndez Camino and Kathy Brecht for their job on Valladolid dispensas; for some glitch the message just didn't go into the cyberspace but her
Hi Peredo,
I'm very happy to hear that your found a dispensa that relates to your family! How exciting to find answers to questions you've had for so long. Like everything else in genealogy, I'm sure you now have 2 questions for every 1 question that's been answered. :-)
It's truly a team effort. We're off to a humble start, but, with the help of volunteers, we're making good progress. Your feedback makes our project all that much more worth it!!!
I encourage everyone to take a look at http://www.valladoliddispensas.com if you haven't already. Who knows, you might discover that some of your ancestors came from the Obispado de Michoacan! If you have any feedback and/or would like to help us with the indexing, please shoot us an email at valladoliddispensas@googlegroups.com.
Best,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Hi Daniel!
Just as you say : in genealogy (as in other endeavors) finding one answer brings along more questions.
In my case the finding of the said dispensa certified one thing that years ago was contemplated as a posibility.
Thanks to that document I now know that I'm one of the descendants of Miguel de Peredo and Luisa Malacara y Sánchez Caballero.
This last couple are direct ancestors of our late friend Guillermo Tovar de Teresa and precisely Guillermo once told me that if not through this couple in the end it would be proved that we were cousins due to the Peredo line or through some other of the lastnames we shared.
Now I know that my 6th ggrandparent was also his 6th ggrandparent but...
Thai is a very peculiar 6th ggrandparent because I have him as " of unknown parents" which I informed Guillermo but he (as direct descendant) told me that he had executorias and some other documents about the ascendants of Don Miguel de Peredo.
So now I have a special Brick Wall because apparently the only documentation about Don Miguel de Peredo's ascendants is among Guillermo's legacy
Me encontré con una página que trae la información sobre las dispensas matrimoniales, de Guadalajara, estoy muy contenta me ayudó mucho, pero hay años que aún no tienen información, alguien que con
I have been in search of my Grandmother's birth certificate. She was born in Guadalajara around 1934-1938, or so she thinks.
You may search in this page with her name and a birth date:
http://enlinea.jalisco.gob.mx/registrocivilVU/RegistroCivil?accion=1&ti…
Since you don't know her birthday, you may check say by day, year by year. If you search the same day as today for 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937 and 1938, it should take you a year or less to find it, just sconsider 1936 was a leap year.
Good luck
VN
Try looking at Ancestry.com. For some states the civil records are indexed into the 1940s for births, and into the 1950s, or later, for marriages and deaths. I have not had a need to look at Jalisco records, so I cannot say if these are included. Ancestry is a better source for indexed civil records than is Family Search.
George
Hi George, thank you for your reply. I have a subscription to Ancestry, and the Guadalajara records stop at 1930. I'm looking for another alternative.
Alice
Alice
I should have checked the Family search catalog first - I see now that birth records are not microfilmed after 1930; Ancestry.com uses the Family Search microfilms.
I did a web search for "birth certificates from Mexico." There are a number of companies that provide this service. You could contact one or more of them to see if they can help. I do not know costs, or their reliability, but both could be checked before contracting with them.
A publicly available database may not exist for privacy or other reasons.
I once looked into a service like this for Germany, and the company was charging $75.00, but I had an exact date. Your situation, with less exact data, could mean a lot of time going through registers. This suggests it could well be expensive.
Best of luck.
George
Hello,
It turns out that there are two Leonor de la Moras married to two men surnamed Martin del Campo. This marriage dispensation does show descent from Ildefonso (Alonso) Martín del Campo and Lorenza Romo de Vivar, so there are three couples that are often confused with each other. I will post important information distinguishing each couple later this week.
Sorry that I can't do it right now.
Here is a little info.:
Ildefonso (Alonso ) Martin del Campo is the son of Miguel Martin del Campo and Margarita Muñoz de Nava.
Miguel Martin del Campo is the son of Lazaro Martin del Campo and Maria Lopez de la Cruz
Great find by Ruben. This is an important correction to the Martin del Campo family tree from Valle de Guadalupe and Pegueros.
Sorry to Lino for sending you bad info. Hopefully this makes up for it. I promise to send you an email to set up a meeting this summer.
Thanks again to both Ruben and Lino,
Rick A. Ricci
Manuel Ignacio Martin del Campo , born before1775 was married on 10/April/1799 in Tepatitlan, Jalisco to Maria Ysidora del Rosario Martin del Campo, baptized on the 17/April/1795 in San Miguel el Alto Jalisco
My wife descends from their daughter Maria Hilaria Martin del Campo and her husband Marcelino Barba Martin del Campo (her 1st cousin)
Their daughter Maria Feliciana BARBA Martin was the first wife of Gerardo Alvarez-tostado Perez of Jalostotitlan fame.
Maria Hilaria is prudencios's sister. there are many Rafael Martin del Campo in the family tree so it easy to confuse them. I have also often seen Rafael as a middle name in your tree.
My wife and I are 5 th cousins and we both descend from Manuel's father numerous times through both of his father's marriages.
I have the family lines from Rafael Martin to the the rest of of the Martin del c lines
I have too much information on your lines to add here. I have done their ancestry going back to the first families in Mexico and beyond
I also have many of their descendents in Jalostotitlan, San Miguel el alto and Valle de Guadalupe, Pegueros, and in the USA
Petra Martin Barba and Esteban Martin del Campo are second cousins. Your Rafael's parents are Prudencio Martin del campo and Maria Sostenes Gutierrez, their common ancestor. Maria de la Cruz's parents are Jose agapito Barba Casillas and Prudencia de la torre. Many generations of all of these people's ancestors are in the tree, not just Martin. The martins and Barba intermarried a lot.
There are descendents of this couple all over the San Fernando valley
PS I just took a look at your family tree that you posted. It is the family that I visited in my youth. I can add much information to your tree (complete names) and dates. It is too much to put here. Both my grandmothers are related to the martins through their grandmothers who were both Martin del campo .
You state that Cleto had 25 children in his 3 marriages. I have only 21 my records. I am missing 4. I had only 20 but just added your ancestor to raise it to 21. Please give me info on the four I'm missing I will give you a list of who I have.
Armando is right that there are a few problems with your tree but most of is correct but mainly lacking many lines. I will show you the true full tree. I have birth dates, marriage dates and you can easily look up my information through the records easily since I am providing dates. to verify its validity, I have to show you my unpublished unfinished book to you since it is so much material
Two of the main problems with your tree is that you are confusing a Jose Martin del campo married to leonor Franco in Jalostotitlan at about the same time with the correct Jose Martin del Campo Munoz de Nava married in Tepatitlan on 7/February/1717 to a Leonor de la Mora de Hurtado de mendoza (she went by a different name combinations which makes it confusing) (aka leonor Hermosillo Samora, aka Leonor de la Mora Mendosa aka Leonor Zamora, aka leonor de la mora y Hermosillo, aka leonor Hermosillo.)
the correct Jose was baptized 16/oct/1691 in Aguascalientes and was the son of another Jose Martin del campo and Maria Romo de Vivar Tiscareno ( aka Maria de vivarRangel) daughter of Jeronimo Romo de Vivar and Margarita Tiscareno. this Jose is the son of Miguel Martin del Campo and Margarita Munoz de Nava
I also descend from all of these Jose Martin del campo and both leonor Franco and leonor mora zamora mendoza.
I have a middle name for the Jose married to leonor zamora mendoza but since I saw it in only one place I will do more research to confirm it before giving it to you.
One of the Joses was known as josesito and had numerous middle names when he was baptized.
I will ask Jesse Padilla Martin for your phone number. His mother and my maternal grandmother are 3rd cousins through the Martin.
R.A. Ricci
Hi R.A.
I had not been on the site in a while and I thought I would automatically get emailed any replies to my initial posting.
Anyways, Hola Prima!
I just saw your posting today. Thank you for all the information and your thoughtful reply. You've done great work. I would very much like to see the research you mentioned you could share with me.
I was born and grew up in the San Fernando Valley and now live in La Verne, CA. My parents are still in the Valley.
You can email me directly at la2ya@a0l.com.
Lino Martin
Mr. Ricci,
There is a Dispensa in Tepatitlán
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-625Y-D
Stating the father of this José is... Ildefonso Martín del Campo !! ??
Is this Dispensa on Error?
Rubén
Hello Ruben,
You bring up an interesting point. According to Mariano Gonzalez Leal's book it should not say Ildefonso. More research is needed to clarify. It is possible that even back then they confused the tree as Rafaela Martin del Campo's maternal grandfather is Ildefonso (Alonso) Franco de Paredes y Lomelin. Another point to consider is that he lists Manuels father as Jose and not Jose Manuel Martin Del campo as we would have expected. Could Mariano have made a mistake by merging two people, Jose Martin del Campo son Of Ildefonso and Jose Manuel son of Lazaro M. Martin del Campo?
As to the line you are researching, I do have lots of information on Maria Teresa de Jesus Gomez De Mendoza y Padillas ancestry going back many generations on all of her grandparents.
Getting back to your finding of Ildefonso Martin del Campo being the progenitor of this line and not Lazaro, I will do more research on this line to see if it is a mistake in the dispensation or a mistake in our records. I will also pull out Mariano Gonzalez Leal's books and look at Jaime Holcombes records to see if they can provide any clues before I start pulling out all the Martin del Campo marriage dispensations that I can find.
Lino Martin may may have had the correct parents, Ildefonso Martín del Campo and Lorenza Romo de Vivar, after all!
Thanks again.
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Lino and welcome to the group.
According to Juan Francisco Javier Salceda Andrade and Mariano González Leal the first Martín del Campo in Nueva Galicia was Bartolomé de San Lázaro Martín del Campo who went by the name Lázaro.
Juan Francisco Javier Salceda Andrade and Mariano González Leal also have different parents for your ancestor José Martín del Campo y Romo de Vivar husband of Leonor de Mora. You have the parents as Ildefonso Martín del Campo and Lorenza Romo de Vivar married 10 May 1690 in Aguascalientes. They have the parents as José Martín del Campo y Muñoz de Nava and María Romo de Vivar y Tiscareño de Molina married 23 Jan 1684 in Aguascalientes.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30358-33?cc=1502404&…
I am sure they are basing the above on a dispensa, testamento, or similar but they don't mention the source in Retoños de España En La Nueva Galicia.
Saludos,
Armando
Hi Armando,
Thank you for your input. My records also confirm Lazaro as thefirst Martin del Campo.
As to Jose, I have two "unofficial" documents I relied on. I am just at the point where I have filled in the boxes with dates that make sense. Now I need to validate through official documents. I will start with your lead.
Thanks again.
Lino Martin
Anyone related to this families.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/amp/note/1757
El link solo lleva a un artículo sobre la conquista de Michoacán
https://www.amazon.com/Los-Altos-Jalisco-Padrones-Parroquiales/dp/15053…
thought some of you might be interested in this book
joseph
Joseph Puentes
http://h2o
Well, after many years of searching I finally found a record that listed the names of great great grandparents. I am thrilled beyond and beyond..
Hi Juanita,
You're on the right track: the name of the town is Pinos, and the parish is San Matias. That's where you want to go.
"Real de Pinos" is the old name of the polity, and before that, "Real de Minas de Sierra de Pinos."
Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you so much. I was searching everywhere and thought maybe a name change. It is good to have a confirmation. Now, hopefully, I can find them. Again, thanks!
Hola Jesus ,como estas ? Ojala que bien.
Hola feliz año ,,, esta línea ya la tengo muy vista es fácil mira ,,, el tronco de los de Avalos en San Juan de los lagos Jalisco es Bernardino de Avalos casado con María Josefa boca negra casada en 26 de abril de 1664 en Guanajuato gto,,, de ahi nació. Juana de Avalos casada con Tomás Hermosillo , de esta pareja nació José Antonio Hermosillo Avalos q caso aproximadamente en 1724 con María joaquina del ángel o Quezada ( pienso que esta es hija de Alonso Quesada y Felipa Ortiz porque su primer hijo Bernardino Hermosillo nacido el 10 de junio de 1725 en san Juan de los lagos Jalisco estos son sus padrinos y por la edad q estos debían de tener y por la costumbre de q el primer hijo lo bautizaban los padres de la madre del niño )
Y de un hermana de Bernardino Avalos llamada Isabel nació Miguel de Avalos desconosco porque lleva el apeido de la madre debió ser hijo natural o por costumbre se puso Avalos este es el padre de otro Miguel Avalos q pretende casarse con Catalina cordero el 20 de septiembre de 1713 en jalostotitlan, Catalina es hija de María Avalos bocanegra hermana de Juana la q caso con Tomás Hermosillo del cual nosotros decendemos,,
Saludos y cualquier cosa estamos en contacto patiente
Hola, Soy muy nueva en todo esto y sé que este post es muy antiguo, pero quería obtener información sobre esta familia. Tengo que Bernardino De Avalos tuvo a María de Bocanegra que se casó con Fernando Cordero y tuvieron a Catarina Cordero. La hermana de Bernardino Isabel de Avalos Sánchez se casó con Jose Leonel de Cervantes Villasenor. Ellos tuvieron a Miguel Antonio de Avalos Villasenor que se casó con María de los Santos Gutiérrez. Tuvieron un hijo llamado Miguel de Avalos y se casó con Catarina Cordero. Queiro saber si teienen mas informacion sobre los padres de Isabel y Bernardino? La cosa es que ambos están en mi línea directa de antepasados.
Gracias
Norma
Hola feliz año ,,, esta línea ya la tengo muy vista es fácil mira ,,, el tronco de los de Avalos en San Juan de los lagos Jalisco es Bernardino de Avalos casado con María Josefa boca negra casada en 26 de abril de 1664 en Guanajuato gto,,, de ahi nació. Juana de Avalos casada con Tomás Hermosillo , de esta pareja nació José Antonio Hermosillo Avalos q caso aproximadamente en 1724 con María joaquina del ángel o Quezada ( pienso que esta es hija de Alonso Quesada y Felipa Ortiz porque su primer hijo Bernardino Hermosillo nacido el 10 de junio de 1725 en san Juan de los lagos Jalisco estos son sus padrinos y por la edad q estos debían de tener y por la costumbre de q el primer hijo lo bautizaban los padres de la madre del niño )
Y de un hermana de Bernardino Avalos llamada Isabel nació Miguel de Avalos desconosco porque lleva el apeido de la madre debió ser hijo natural o por costumbre se puso Avalos este es el padre de otro Miguel Avalos q pretende casarse con Catalina cordero el 20 de septiembre de 1713 en jalostotitlan, Catalina es hija de María Avalos bocanegra hermana de Juana la q caso con Tomás Hermosillo del cual nosotros decendemos,,
Saludos y cualquier cosa estamos en contacto patiente
Hola Marcelina (Fabiola),
Ma Nicolasa De Anda Ramirez de Mendoza
mentioned in the record of Diego Marques and Ma Nicolasa De Anda
Name Diego Marques
Spouse's Name Ma Nicolasa De Anda
Event Date 16 Jan 1715
Event Place Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC81-QFG : 15 July 2015), Diego Marques and Ma Nicolasa De Anda, 16 Jan 1715; citing Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,295.
Image 63 out of 557
Maria Nicolasa De Anda-Altamirano Ramirez de Mendoza es hija de Geronimo y Beatriz. Geronimo de Anda Altamirano se caso por la segundo vez con Beatriz Ramirez de Mendoza. Geronimo tambien uso el apellido Fernandez de Rueda. Geronimo es hijo Alonso Fernandez de Rueda (nacido en Toranzo, Santander, España) y Ana De Anda-Altamirano.
Hola Richard:
Pues sí, tenemos esos ancestros comunes de Jalostotitlan, pero yo me enteré sobre ellos recientemente, por lo tanto no los he estudiado.
Conocí a una señora de Jalostotitlán en un grupo social, después me enteré de que vivía ¡al lado!, a pesar de estar las casas juntas no la había conocido. Fue mi amiga unos diez años y luego se mudó a otra ciudad. Ahora veo que pertenece también a esta rama y que es mi pariente genealógica por varias ramas.
Tengo una parte de mi árbol en geneanet como mfabiola en caso que quieras verlo.
Gracias y saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
Tengo mucha informacion sobre tus ancestros de Jalostotitlan.
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Hola Richard:
La familia Carvajal proviene del reino de León, España, tierras de Sayago. Hacia el siglo XIV una parte se convirtió al cristianismo para permanecer en España y otra parte marchó a Portugal para seguir practicando el judaísmo.
La rama principal en Nueva España y Nueva Galicia proviene de Don Antonio de Carvajal quien ocupó varios cargos de gobernación y realizó la visita a la provincia de Michoacán, todo en el siglo XVI. Emparentaron con la familia de don Leonel de Cervantes.
Hay otra rama, de la que desciendo, de Don Juan del Carvajal "El viejo" se halló en la conquista de Tenochtitlan y se retiró en Tulancingo, Hidalgo en donde dejó descendencia.
Otro conquistador fue Juan de Limpias Carvajal "El Sordo", cuya familia pasó a Querétaro pero tenían las encomiendas en Oaxaca.
En el siglo XVII llegó la rama portuguesa de Don Luis de Carvajal y de la Cueva pasó para conquista y fundación del Nuevo Reino de León, los que sobrevivieron a la inquisición pasaron a vivir a Tulancingo y otros a Italia bajo el apellido Lumbroso (El Iluminado).
Saludos
Marcelina
Sobre la relación entre los Carvajal y los de la Cueva tal vez mencioné el episodio del Rey Fernando "El Emplazado" y la muerte que dieron los Carvajal de la Casa de Jódar a un tío apellidado de la Cueva.
Hola Marcelina,
Gracias por la informacion sobre los Carvajal.
Somos primos octavos por lo Romo/Munoz de la Barba. Yo tambien desciendo de Juan Romo de Vivar Ruiz de Esparza y su esposa, Maria de la Rosa Muñoz de la Barba Muñoz de Nava (Gonzalez de Hermosillo), por su hijo Pedro Romo de Vivar. Yo desciendo de la hija de Pedro y Agueda Cayetana de Alba, Mathiana Romo Alba, y su esposo Christobal Ximenez de Mendoza.
Tambien tengo informacion sobre tu linea AndaAltamirano/Ramirez de Mendoza/Fernandez de Rueda.
Yo creo es probable que Nicolasa De Anda-Altamirano Ramirez de Mendoza es hija de Geronimo y Beatriz. Geronimo de Anda Altamirano se caso por la segundo vez con Beatriz Ramirez de Mendoza. Geronimo tambien uso el apellido Fernandez de Rueda. Geronimo es hijo Alonso Fernandez de Rueda (nacido en Toranzo, Santander, España) y Ana De Anda-Altamirano.
Beatriz es hija de Jose Ramirez de Hermosillo y Ana Muñoz de Hermosillo.
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Perhaps someone has already answered this question. If yes, let me know so I can look in the old posts. If not, does someone know if both Agueda de los Santos Coy and Agueda de Pena are the same.
Que Tal a Todos, Mi nombre es Juan Michel, Soy originario de la Ciudad de Guadalajara y al igual que Todos interesado en encontrar cada vez mas información de nuestra Familia, Desde ya hace muchos año
Hola Juan, saludos desde San Diego. Ya tenemos más de un año que no hablamos. Me da mucho gusto ver que sigues en la búsqueda. Muy buenos datos.
¿Es posible incluir al autor del libro? ¿O cualquier referencia usada específicamente para los Michels? No he visto ninguna información similar con tales detalles, y sugeriría que el autor descubriera nuevos detalles. Yo también decendí de esta misma línea de Michels.
Gracias por la informacion, aunque no me pertence fue muy interesante por la razon de historia y mas aun porque la mejor amiga de mi mama fue Martina Michel que segun su familia fue de Cuba originalmente (desculpa mi espanol). Vivio al otro lada de mi mama en san luis potosi donde su tio abuelo (ella era huerfana) los Ortiz fue Alcade de San Luis Potosi.
In the familysearch.org website now you can view such things as testamentos, escrituras online. You click on the link such as testamentos, the scroll down to see the list and dates.
The "padrones" of Jalisco and some history/genealogy books are also available for online viewing.
Have you been able to locate a will of one of your ancestors in those films? I've browsed a few of those films, but I'm not sure where to start.
Resulta que estoy buscando a mis ancestros Contreras, llegue a un punto donde ya no encuentro información, me acabo de dar cuenta que ya no hay registros en FamilySearch de Calvillo antes de 1770 , en
Daniel
My cousin and research partner, Dave has Saucedo's from Teocaltiche:
Hello Rose,
I have Saucedo's from Calvillo (listed below). Epigmenia Saucedo married
Isaac Esparza and had Andrea Esparza. Andrea married into a Limon family in
Teocaltiche. Later Epigmenia Saucedo married into the same Limon family.
I lost the trail of the Saucedo's after the father, Matias Saucedo, was
listed in the marriage record of his son Hermenejildo Saucedo in 1859.
I'd love any supporting information on the Saucedo's of Teocaltiche and
Calvillo.
-Esperanza
Ysac or Isaac Esparza
m. Feb 3, 1881 to Epigmenia Saucdeo, San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes
Epigmenia Saucedo
b. Mar 24, 1859
m. Feb 3, 1881 to Ysac Esparza, San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes
d. Jun 30, 1930 (second husband, Valente Limon)
Father: Hermenejildo Saucedo
Mother: Refugio Aguallo
Hermenejildo Saucedo
b. ~1833
m. Jun 1, 1859 to Refugio Agaullo, La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo,
Jalisco
Father: Matias Saucedo
Mother: Maria Dias
Refugio Agaullo
b. ~1843, Rancho de Collotes, Tototlan, Jalisco
m. Jun 1, 1859 to Hermenejildo Saucedo, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco
Father: Ambrocio Aguallo
Mother: Maria Ylaria de Ulloa
Ambrocio de Aguallo
b. ~ 1812, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco
m. Oct 15, 1828 to Maria Ylaria de Ulloa, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco
Father: Dolores Aguallo
Mother: Manuela Najera
Maria Ylaria de Ulloa
b. ~ 1814
m. Oct 15, 1828 to Ambrocio de Aguallo, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco
Father: Rafael de Ulloa
Mother: Catarina Mora
On 11/5/09 8:48 PM, "rosehardy@hotmail.com" wrote:
> Daniel
>
> My cousin and research partner, Dave has Saucedo's from Teocaltiche:
>
> Juan Zacarias Saucedo was baptized in Teocaltiche on the 16th of June 1721.
> Juan, the legitimate son of Xptoval Sausedo and of Feliciana de Udabe. The
> godparents were Isidro de Udabe and Maria de La Serda and all are mestissos
> The godparents Isidro de Udave and Maria de La Serda are Juan Zacarias¹s
> maternal grandparents.
>
> Some of the Saucedo's moved to Calvillo.
>
> Rose
Esparanza
Here is the information on your Hermengildo Saucedo and some notes that I have on a Matias Saucedo.
I did an exact name search in the IGI at familysearch.org. It's very easy type in last names only, i.e. "Saucedo Dias" and click the box on the bottom for exact name. In doing so are the following results. Once the person is located (and even not) your mainly looking for the location and time period. Click the batch number. I just typed in Matias for the fathers first name only. Every Matias in Villa Hidalgo popped up for batch # C611162. Once you've got a batch number play with it....alter the number to C611163 for later years....or go back C611161...if there are no results change the C to a K or J...if no results then there is nothing on the IGI.
I came across this method of research years ago and teach people all the time how to look for ancestors they think they are stuck on.
Same hold true with the LDS Pilot site, except it is more user friendly and all sorts of combinations can be used with out the name of the child, just the name of the parents or partial names.....first name of father and last name of mother and vice versa.
JOSE ERMENEGILDO SAUCEDO DIAS Pedigree
Male Christening: 15 APR 1834 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUCEDO Family
Mother: MARIA DIAS
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C611162 1823 - 1844 1155554
JOSE TORIBIO SAUCEDO DIAS Pedigree
Male Christening: 17 APR 1832 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUCEDO Family
Mother: ANA MARIA DIAS
MARIA PANFILA SAUSEDO DIAS Pedigree
Female Christening: 11 APR 1830 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUSEDO Family
Mother: MARIA DIAS
JOSE JUAN CLIMACO SAUCEDO DIAS Pedigree
Male Christening: 01 APR 1837 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUCEDO Family
Mother: MARIA DIAS
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C611163 1835 - 1853 1155555
MARIA ANACLETA SAUCEDO DIAS Pedigree
Female Christening: 16 JUL 1844 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUCEDO Family
Mother: MARIA DIAS
MARIA PETRA SAUCEDO DIAS Pedigree
Female Christening: 26 OCT 1839 La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: MATIAS SAUCEDO Family
Mother: MARIA DIAS
Name: Jose Antonio Matias Sausedo
Gender: Male
Christening date: 04 Mar 1799
Christening place: Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Birth date: 24 Feb 1799
Birthplace: Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Antonio Sausedo
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Guadalupe Cervantes
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name: Gertrudis Sausedo
Maternal grandfather's name: Francisco Cervantes
Maternal grandmother's name: Maria Lopes
Batch number: C02498-2
Date range:
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 634025
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
Jose Antonio Matias Saucedo was baptized in Teocaltiche on the 4th of March 1799. … Jose Antonio Matias Spaniard of Arroyo Seco who was born on the 24th of February at one o’clock in the afternoon, the legitimate son of Jose Antonio Sausedo and of Guadalupe Cervantes. The godparents were his maternal grandparents Francisco Cervantes and Maria Lopes…
Jose Matias Saucedo was married in Huejucar, Aguascalientes on the 26th of January 1800. … Jose Matias Saucedo, Spaniard, native of the jurisdiction of Teocaltiche at Arroyo Seco since he was very small and of this parish at El Salitrillo, the legitimate son of Sacarias Saucedo and Margarita Ruiz with Gregoria Eufracia, Indian, native of San Pedro in the jurisdiction of the town of Xalpa and since she was very young, of this parish at El Saltillo, the legitimate daughter of Antonio Hernandez and Maria Francisca…The godparents were RicardoRuiz and Rosalia Calvillo of the jurisdiction of Theocaltiche…
Esparanza
Also don't forget to place Jose or Maria in front of the name of your ancestors.....Juan and Juana are also other names as well. I found where two of your lines were married....
JOSE DOLORES AGUALLO Pedigree
Male Family
Spouse: MARIA MANUELA NAXARA Family
Marriage: 17 JAN 1798 Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M607071 1783 - 1805 0639758
JOSE RAFAEL DE VLLOA Pedigree
Male Family
Spouse: MARIA CATARINA DE MORA Family
Marriage: 09 MAY 1810 Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M606268 1807 - 1824 0226729 Film NONE
Rose
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-QB81-3?mode=g&i=100&cc=187…
Yo tengo este registro de mi familia que los padrinos son JOSE ANTONIO SAUCEDO Y FRANCISCO SAUCEDO , segun todos ellos de ARROYO SECO , Teocaltiche, pero no encuentro donde es ahora, tambien despues de estos registros aparecen en Calvillo, Aguascalientes, espero que te sirva la información.
A mi me pasa algo parecido con mi familia Contreras aparecen en Calvillo y antes estaban en Teocaltiche, pero me di cuenta que los registros católicos de calvillo comienzan en 1772, antes de eso la gente iba a Tabasco Zacatecas a realizar sacramentos , y antes de eso estoy investigando pero todo parece indicar que teocaltiche o Aguascalientes Capital . Espero darme a entender no hablo ingles, lo leo un poco y use el traductor.
To me something similar happens with my family Contreras appear in Calvillo and before they were in Teocaltiche, but I realized that the catholic records of calvillo begin in 1772, before that the people went to Tabasco Zacatecas to realize sacraments, and before that I am researching but everything seems to indicate that teocaltiche or Aguascalientes Capital. I hope to make myself understood I do not speak English, I read it a bit and use the translator.
I have ancestors with the last name "Si" also attached to the last name of Trexo (Trejo} from El Salto de Los Trexos, Tlaltenango Sanchez Roman.
Two questions:
Thank you all for your insights - very valuable.
I have records from the district of Jerez, Zac that say Si and then in other records for the same person it says Sid and in later years it changes to Cid.
Linda Castanon-Long
Hola Luna:
Creo que hay que considerar otras dos posibilidades antes de irse por los ancestros chinos, a menos que los descendientes tengan rasgos orientales.
1. Es posible que "Si" haya sido una abreviación del apellido Sifuentes, ahora Cifuentes como se aprecia en el siguiente registro.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRG1-1MG : 12 December 2014), Maria Jpha. Jacinta Si Carrion, 26 Aug 1762; citing SAN JUAN BAUTISTA,PANUCO,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,093,323.
2. Que sea un apellido indígena de esa región.
Tu familia proviene de Jerez de García Salinas, Zacatecas en donde nació Juana María Si Fernández y se bautizó en 1760, como hija de Bitorino Si y Juana Fernández.
México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2MY-1S3 : 12 December 2014), Juana Maria Si Fernandes, 03 Sep 1762; citing JEREZ,JEREZ DE GARCIA SALINAS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 439,846.
Hay otras ramas de la familia Si en otra partes de Zacatecas iniciando en 1740.
Ese apellido existía anteriormente en Puebla, en las zonas indígenas, pero no se aprecia que exista relación entre la rama de Puebla y la de Zacatecas.
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina,
Estoy de acuerdo contigo que "Si " puede see una abrevaciòn de Sifuentes (Cifuentes). Yo he encontrado muchas abrevaciònes en España Otero ejemplo fue Sanz que era una abrevaciòn para Sanchez. Hay muchas abrevaciònes que hay que aprender.
Gracias,
Ricardo
sefardic roots