Dr.mt

SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS-Armando

Published by chilerey54 –
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Genealogy Research

Hola Armando,I have been looking for Juan Escoto and Maria Ramirez married in San Juan de Los Lagos.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello Ronnie, I haven't found anything on this couple but I will keep them
in mind and let you know if I find anything.

Saludos
Armando

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Ronald Reynoso wrote:

>
> Hola Armando,I have been looking for Juan Escoto and Maria Ramirez
> married in San Juan de Los Lagos. I believe (no proof) that Juan Escoto is
> son of Juan Escoto Tovar and Maria Morales and his wife Maria Ramirez was
> also named Maria Arias de Valdez,but no proof. I checked out the birth
> records children of this couple utlizing Maria Ramirez's name using
> familysearch.org/seach/collection/list. The padrinos of the children had
> names of Ramirez,Arias,Morales and Valdez,but this is just a conclusion I
> made,still no proof or verification.
> thank you
> Ronnie

Biographical Information on Early Families of Aguascalientes

Published by gpf13 –
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Genealogy Research

Is there any book that has biographical information on the early families of Aguascalientes?

It would be very interesting to have more than just names and dates.

George Fulton

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi George,
Here is a great online resource for historical info re: colonial Aguascalientes. I have not read it in its entirety, but I noticed that it does include a few details on early families. I hope it helps you!

http://bibliotecadigital.ilce.edu.mx/sites/estados/libros/aguas/html/se…

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Comentario

George,
Another book by Beatriz Rojas dealing with early Aguascalientes society (also in Spanish) is, "Las Instituciones de Gobierno y la Elite Local. Aguascalientes del Siglo XVII hasta la Independencia. Beatriz, who by coincidence is the sister-in-law of one of my brothers, is native to Aguascalientes and a very acomplished academician. In this book she covers the entire span of socioeconomic development of Aguascalientes.
I believe this book can be ordered online from "El Colegio de Michoacan". For a preview go to: http://books.google.com/books?id=uvAkXvcU5KMC&dq=Hacienda+de+Penuelas&s…

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

George,
This is an excellent book, worthy of serious studying. I have a copy and have found it very useful in understanding the socioeconomic development of Aguascalientes. There is major transition in the aristocracy of Aguascalientes from the XVII century to the XVIII century. Colegio de Michoacan offers many interesting books for pennies on the dollar, though shipping makes up for it.
Daniel Mendez Camino

Rafaela de Anda Lopez hija de Diego Francisco de Anda de San Juan De Los Lagos

Published by salvagr –
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Segun lo que e investigado,Diego Francisco de Anda era hijo de Lucas de Anda Y Gertrudis de Asebes, pero tengo dudas, sabe alguien de la familia De Anda?

Les agradesco su ayuda.

Comentarios

Comentario

Gloria Casillas
Hola,te paso unos link donde encontre algo de Diego Francisco de Anda http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#surname=de%20anda…
casado con Maria Candelaria lopes

en este otro link encontre su descendencia
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#surname=de%20anda…

En el libro retoños de la nueva galicia se habla sobre la familia de anda, sino lo tienes, busco la manera de escanear las paginas y mandarte la informacion.

en este otro link encontraras las actas de bautismo y matrimonio, para confirmar
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Comentario

Muchas Gracias Gloria; tengo el libro de retoños de la nueva España , pero mi duda es que Lucas de Anda nació en Teocaltiche y no se si realmente sea el papá de Diego Francisco de anda, solo lo deduje por que tubo un hijo del mismo nombre.
saludos

Comentario

Gloria Casillas

Hola, encontre dos Lucas, uno en teocaltiche y otro en Lagos de Moreno
Lucas de Anda Altamirano
hijo de Geronimo de Anda Altamirano y Mariana Rodriguez de Salcedo
About 1685 San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
Batch Number: F867631
Sheet: 009
Source Call No.: 1396287
Lucas de Anda Marin
Hijo de Jeronimo de Anda e Isabel Marin
08 JUN 1678 Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Batch No.: C024197
Uno se caso con Getrudis de Aceves el treita de Noviembre de 1713 en Nuestra señora de la Asuncion en Jalostotitlan

Espero estos datos te sirvan

Comentario

Prior to 1722 San Juan de los Lagos was under the parochial jurisdiction of
Jalostotitlan. A recent post by ppchuy stated there was a fire in that
church that destroyed many of the records prior to 1700 and that is why
nothing can be found for Jalostotitlan, San Juan, and San Miguel el Alto in
that period which is the reason why the dispensas are so valuable.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20016

Everyone that can pitch in to help Claudia Reynoso to index the dispensas
so she can post them to her blog should do so.
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/

As stated in that thread notary records can also be very valuable.
Hopefully someday some can be found for Los Altos that can help with
missing genealogical info.

There are also many matrimonial investigations that can be helpful when the
marriage records can't be found or don't name the parents of the bride and
groom. Since many of the people of San Juan married people from Lagos de
Moreno there is hope info can be found in the volumes of Información
Matromonial or marriage investigations of that church, at least between
1700 and 1722.

Are you researching a particular couple or is it a large range of people?

Saludos
Armando

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Ronald Reynoso wrote:

>
> Hola Everyone ,were the San Juan de Los lagos records under a different
> municipio prior to 1722 ?
> thanks
> Ronnie Reynoso

ALONZO LEAL: ¿HERMANOS O PRIMOS?

Published by D.I.VALLES –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

Saludos a todos.

¿Que opinan?

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Israel,

En mi opinion, creo que lo unico que resolvera tu duda sobre si son primos o hermanos es encontrar la partida de bautismo de Saturnino, y asi comparar la informacion en cada documento. Este puede ser el tipico/clasico caso donde una persona con 2 nombres, usa su primer nombre en un documento y el segundo en otro, al igual que a veces solian usar el apellido materno en lugar del tipico paterno.

Saludos,
Roberto Hdez

Aguascalientes Matrimonial Investigations 1721-1730

Published by gpf13 –
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Genealogy Research

This evening I posted the next file for the index of Aguascalientes matrimonial investigations for the period 1721-1730.

Comentarios

Comentario

Lee Castillo
Thank you very much. They are quite helpful. Sometimes to show that the record isn't there.

I spent the last few days looking through the microfilm for the marriage of Francisco Luebana and Maria Ruiz de Esparza looking for their parents. I checked both your previous files for them but looked in the microfilm hoping that maybe the record was too hard to read. Did not find them. Using your new records I was able to confirm some other marriage records for that time period. Thank you!

Comentario

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

mtntoolies@aol.com wrote:

>Lee Castillo
>Thank you very much. They are quite helpful. Sometimes to show that the record isn't there.
>
>I spent the last few days looking through the microfilm for the marriage of Francisco Luebana and Maria Ruiz de Esparza looking for their parents. I checked both your previous files for them but looked in the microfilm hoping that maybe the record was too hard to read. Did not find them. Using your new records I was able to confirm some other marriage records for that time period. Thank you!

Comentario

Lee,

The parents of Francisco Luevana and Maria Ruiz de Esparza (married 10 Aug 1705 in Aguascalientes) were Juan de Luevana Alvarado and María Delgado Tiscareño for Francisco, and Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza and Antonia de Huerta for Maria. Their marriage information can be checked online [Informacion Matrimonial, 1705 Image 96 of 180]. (Las informaciones matrimoniales mencionan dos impedimentos, uno de tercero con cuarto grado y el otro de cuarto, ambos de consanguinidad; y el acta de matrimonio dice que fueron dispensados en el tercer grado de consanguinidad para dos partes. Testigos al casamiento Phelipe de Esparza, Antonio González y otros muchos.)

BILL FIGUEROA

Comentario

Lee Castillo

Bill, thank you! And that accounts why I didn't find them. I started 1704 through 1701 in both the marriage and marriage information records. I will read the entire record in a couple of days after my eyes rest and it was quite a trek. It looks like there were some earlier impediments which delayed the marriage.

Comentario

Bill and Lee,
According to my records, the consanguinity between Francisco Luebano and Maria Ruiz Esparza can be explained as follows: Juan de Luebana III (Luevano) and Nicolas Ruiz Esparza, the respective parents of Francisco and Maria, were first-cousins, grandchildren of Juan de Luevano I and Maria Lopez de Elizalde (Lisardi). From Juan Luebano I and Maria Lopez de Elizalde came Juan Luevano II, who married Maria de Alvarado, the parents of Juan III, and Juana Lopez de Elizalde (Luevano) who married Jacinto Ruiz Esparza, the parents of Nicolas. Now, Nicolas Ruiz Esparza and Maria Delgado Tiscareño were cousins, because Jacinto Ruiz Esparza and Lorenza Ruiz Esparza (the grandmother of Maria Delgado Tiscareño) were siblings, the children of Lope Ruiz Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai.

I hope I got it right.

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Lee and Bill,
Just remember that by coincidence I came across the dispensa matrimonial de la Diocesis de Guadalajara for Francisco Luebana and Maria Ruiz Esparza:

It can be found in Guadalajara\Diocesis\Matrimonios 1700-1705, Imagen 040 francisco luebana & maria ruiz de esparza / aguascalientes.

Unfortunately, and similar to most dispensas from Aguascalientes, it does not give the names of the ancestors, but just the relationship between them, which although helpful, never as useful as if the names had been specified.

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

With the work that Claudia Reynoso is doing, there will be an index to the dispensation in the (hopefully!) not too distant future. That will make finding these documents much easier. The dispensations in the matrimonial investigations most often give the degree of relationship only, with the details being in the files in the Diocese.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Lee Castillo
Lucas Martinez de Sotomayor married Teresa (Lopez) Esparza Flores whose parents are Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza & Catalina de Flores.

I find information (see below) for Nicolas Lopes and Catalina Flores. I am not finding a marriage record.
My question is this Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza (Lopes de Elizalde) the son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana de Elizalde who was married first to Antonia de Huerta? If not who are the parents. Thank you.

I. NICOLAS ESPARZA & CATALINA FLORES
NICOLAS ESPARZA m. CATALINA FLORES b. 1646.
1) YSIDRO (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES baptized 7-31-1685 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
2) THERESA (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES b. 7-6-1687.
3) NICHOLAS (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES baptized 4-6-1694 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico..
4) MARIA MANUELA (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES baptized 8-11-1696 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
5) BRIGIDA (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES baptized 7-2-1698 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
6) LEONOR (LOPEZ) ESPARZA FLORES baptized 9-18-1701 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.

Comentario

Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza (c. abril 11 1652, Aguascalientes), son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Elizalde, married to Antonia de Escovar y Huerta. I do not have record of him marrying twice. Now, Jacinto's brother Salvador married to Maria de Vielma had a son Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza (c. October 28 1626). Also, their brother Pedro, who married to Juana Lozano, had a child name Nicolas Ruiz Esparza (c. July 2 1639). By the timeline you provide, this could be the one. I am sure the other members of NR will provide additional information on the two children that I mention to verify whether they could be the one you are looking for.

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

The marriage record of Nicolás Ruiz de Esparza and Antonia de Escobar y Huerta does not mention their parents—A nuisance in various periods because of the lack of record keeping. Based on what I have and have been able to piece out slowly over time, I find that Nicolás who married Antonia de Huerta is unlikely (unless there is another document out there to prove this; unfortunately I have not found one) son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde. The major reason for this was because by the time the two kids came around Pedro Ruiz de Esparza b. 14 Aug 1671 and Esteban Ruiz de Esparza b. 14 Apr 1675 he was only 17 years of age; something very rare. I have not seen too many couples who married at seventeen, only a handful.
Second, if I recall correctly there is a will in the Archivo Histórico de Estado de Aguascalientes for Nicolás López de Elizalde y Ruiz de Esparza who married Catalina Flores who sometimes appears as Catalina Flores de la Cruz or Catalina de la Cruz, as son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde. Nicolás used his mother’s surname for reasons unknown. Though his mother was María López de Elizalde she was in fact a “Luévano,” daughter of Juan de Luévano and María López de Elizalde.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

Daniel,

You have it all wrong. Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza, who married Antonia de Huerta, was indeed the son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Elizalde.
The proof is in his father's final will and testament dated 19 April 1679 which includes this paragraph "- Yten declaro que al tiempo y cuando case al dicho mi hijo nicolas de esparsa con antonia de guerta le di por cuenta de su legitima cuarenta bacas paridas y veinte yeguas." Jacinto died three months later on 27 July 1679.

Nicolas (second with that name) was baptized 24 Aug 1646 at the Parochial Church of Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de Aguascalientes. He married Antonia de Huerta 1 Oct 1669, so he was 23 years old when they were married, and almost 25 when his son Pedro Ruiz de Esparza was born. Where did you get that he was 17 years old? That does not make any sense.

How did you conclude that Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde (aka Nicolas Lopez) who married Catalina Flores, was the same person as Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza, (aka Nicolas de Esparza) who married Antonia de Huerta? You probably made that assumption because of the mother of Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza was Juana Lopez de Elizalde, but Nicolas never took the surname from his mother.

Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza remained married to Antonia de Huerta for 26 years, from 1 Oct 1669 thru 11 Feb 1696. Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde and Catalina Flores had several children during that period of time. Where in the world did you get the information that there is a final will of Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde where he mentions that his parents were Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Elizalde?

The information you provided is not only wrong but very misleading to members of Nuestros Ranchos, especially to new members. Please stick to the facts.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Torres"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza

The marriage record of Nicolás Ruiz de Esparza and Antonia de Escobar y Huerta does not mention their parents—A nuisance in various periods because of the lack of record keeping. Based on what I have and have been able to piece out slowly over time, I find that Nicolás who married Antonia de Huerta is unlikely (unless there is another document out there to prove this; unfortunately I have not found one) son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde. The major reason for this was because by the time the two kids came around Pedro Ruiz de Esparza b. 14 Aug 1671 and Esteban Ruiz de Esparza b. 14 Apr 1675 he was only 17 years of age; something very rare. I have not seen too many couples who married at seventeen, only a handful.
Second, if I recall correctly there is a will in the Archivo Histórico de Estado de Aguascalientes for Nicolás López de Elizalde y Ruiz de Esparza who married Catalina Flores who sometimes appears as Catalina Flores de la Cruz or Catalina de la Cruz, as son of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde. Nicolás used his mother’s surname for reasons unknown. Though his mother was María López de Elizalde she was in fact a “Luévano,” daughter of Juan de Luévano and María López de Elizalde.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Familia Hurtado

Published by ivraga –
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Genealogy Research

Estoy tratando de obtener las raíces de la familia Hurtado en el corazón de los Altos, Jalostotitlán, pero desgraciadamente no puedo localizar "el hilito", alguien tiene información de los Hurtado

Comentarios

Comentario

I have hit a brick wall on the Hurtado family and was hoping some of the information below may have some familiar names,any help would be appreciated.

Rafael Hurtado, son of Jose Ysidro Hurtado and Rosa Maria Munoz was born about 1790 in EL
SITAL, JALISCO, MEXICO. He married Maria Rafaela Padilla on 10 Feb 1808 in Lagos de
Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico (Santa Maria De Los Lagos).

Maria Rafaela Padilla, daughter of Rafael Tomas Padilla and Maria Ygnacia Gonzales was born
in Mexico.

Maria Rafaela Padilla and Rafael Hurtado had the following children:
i. Manuel Trinidad Hurtado was born on 01 Jan 1809 in Union de San Antonio,
Jalisco, Mexico.
ii. Jose Bernardo Hurtado was born on 30 May 1810 in Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco,
Mexico.
iii. Jose Teofilo De Jesus Hurtado was born on 15 Jan 1812 in Unión de San Antonio,
Jalisco, Mexico.
iv. Jose Tomas De La Trinidad Hurtado was born on 01 Jan 1814 in Unión de San
Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico.
v. Jose Meliton Hurtado was born on 17 Mar 1820 in Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco,
Mexico. He married Maria Francisca Hermenegilda Hurtado on 07 May 1851 in
Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico, daughter of Cayetano Hermion Hurtado and
Ana Maria Onofre Arrieta. She was born on 17 Apr 1831 in Unión de San Antonio,
Jalisco, Mexico.
vi. Maria Ricarda De Jesus Hurtado was born on 09 Apr 1825 in Unión de San
Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico.
vii. Maria Martina De La Trinidad Hurtado was born on 17 Nov 1830 in Unión de San
Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico.

Cayetano Hermion Hurtado, son of Ygnacio Hurtado and Maria Simona Gutierres was born on
18 Aug 1792 in Santa Maria de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Ana
Maria Onofre Arrieta.

Ana Maria Onofre Arrieta, daughter of Juan Jose Arrieta and Maria Nicolosa Gutierres was born
on 21 Jun 1801 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico.

Ana Maria Onofre Arrieta and Cayetano Hermion Hurtado had the following children:
i. Maria Francisca Hermenegilda Hurtado was born on 17 Apr 1831 in Unión de San
Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico. She married Jose Meliton Hurtado on 07 May 1851 in
SanAntonio, Jalisco, Mexico. She married Jose Meliton Hurtado on 07 May 1851 in
Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico, son of Rafael Hurtado and Maria Rafaela
Padilla. He was born on 17 Mar 1820 in Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico.
ii. Jose Ysidro Hurtado was born in May 1835 in Union de San Antonio, Jalisco,
Mexico.

Thanks Randy McNeal

No puedo encontrar el film del Matrimonio de Jose Enrrique Montero en Cuidad Gusman

Published by salvagr –
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Genealogy Research

ME pueden ayudar, les mando la liga para que vean el año:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCFL-8TY

Gracias

Comentarios

Comentario

El enlace que nos diste dice que se encuentra en el microfilm 281946. El
buscador de los microfilmes se encuentra en
https://familysearch.org/#form=catalog&catSearchType=film_number que nos da
la un enlace a Registros parroquiales, 1648-1959 author: Iglesia Católica.
Zapotlán el Grande (Ciudad Guzmán, Jalisco). Haciendo clic en ese enlace
nos da una lista de los microfilm de esa iglesia y tiene al microfilm como
el libro Matrimonios 1761-1814. Que se encuentra en Mexico, Jalisco,
Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995 Ciudad Guzmán Zapotlán el Grande
Matrimonios 1761-1814 imagen 50.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-22093-18?cc=1874591&wc…

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, wrote:

> ME pueden ayudar, les mando la liga para que vean el año:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.1.1/JCFL-8TY
>
> Gracias

Comentario

what name are you looking for?
que nombre estas buscando?
Linda in Everett, Washington?

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] No puedo encontrar el film del Matrimonio de Jose Enrrique Montero en Cuidad Gusman

El enlace que nos diste dice que se encuentra en el microfilm 281946. El
buscador de los microfilmes se encuentra en
https://familysearch.org/#form=catalog&catSearchType=film_number que nos da
la un enlace a Registros parroquiales, 1648-1959 author:  Iglesia Católica.
Zapotlán el Grande (Ciudad Guzmán, Jalisco). Haciendo clic en ese enlace
nos da una lista de los microfilm de esa iglesia y tiene al microfilm como
el libro Matrimonios 1761-1814. Que se encuentra en Mexico, Jalisco,
Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995 Ciudad Guzmán Zapotlán el Grande
Matrimonios 1761-1814 imagen 50.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-22093-18?cc=1874591&wc…

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, wrote:

> ME pueden ayudar, les mando la liga para que vean el año:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.1.1/JCFL-8TY
>
> Gracias

Rancho del Populo, Tonala, Jalisco

Published by verodamian –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

En el territorio de Tonala habia espacio para la cría de ganado: vacuno, entre sementa-les, vacas finas y corrientes, y animales de engorda y trabajo, ademas de un buen número de puercos y gallinas

Comentarios

unable to access NR film records

Published by Joseph de Leon –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Unable to access NuestrosRanchos film records for the past 4 days.

What's going on??

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentarios

Comentario

This may be a manifestation of the link between the NR webpage, and Family Search. Apparently this has been observed elsewhere, because of changes at Family Search, for some other 3rd party sites [this example has to do with English/Scots records]:

What Happened to Hugh Wallis?

October 12, 2011 - 12:45pm by AndersonSF

We’ve received a lot of feedback from FamilySearch users asking why they cannot use the Hugh Wallis website to do batch numbers searches. The problem occurred when the latest version of FamilySearch was put in place. At that time, some of the links that allowed the Hugh Wallis website to connect to the batch records found in FamilySearch were broken. This was an unfortunate accident. When we heard about this problem we did all we could to contact Mr. Wallis and worked with him to come up with a solution to the problem.

FamilySearch programmers are now working with Hugh Wallis to find a workable solution to this problem. As soon as a solution is found, the public will be notified that the site can be used again. Thank you for your patience.

Personally, I've not used the NR links, but go in directly through Family Search, and have not experienced these problems. Problems I noted a week ago, or so, seem to be related to the site having been very busy.

I've not noted any issues over the weekend.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

I can do abt 10 pages and then it kicks me out!  This has been happening for over a week now.  I'm assuming they're adding records.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: "josecarlos1944@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:24 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] unable to access NR film records

Unable to access NuestrosRanchos film records for the past 4 days.

What's going on??

Jose Carlos de Leon

Errores en actas o casualidades??

Published by verodamian –
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Hola,pido a ustedes su opinión y valioso consejo en cuanto a las siguientes actas, sigo el matrimonio de JOSE MARIA ELIZALDE XARAMILLO y PAULINA HUGALDE ZUÑIGA y las personas que considero sus hijos

Comentarios

Comentario

Jose Ma. Lizarde y Paulina Vgalde casaron 01 May 1797 microfilm 38358 y en
ese registro matrimonial dice que José María era hijo de padres no
conocidos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-22952-8?cc=1874591&wc=…

Jose María Elizalde y José María Jaramillo seguramente era la misma
persona.

Maria Paulina Hugaldi Zuniga se bautizó 27 Jun 1782 microfilm 38325 y sus
padres eran Felipe Neri Vgalde y Maria Manuela De Suniga que casaron 11 Feb
1777 microfilm 38357

Saludos
Armando

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:44 PM, wrote:

> Hola,pido a ustedes su opinión y valioso consejo en cuanto a las
> siguientes actas, sigo el matrimonio de JOSE MARIA ELIZALDE XARAMILLO y
> PAULINA HUGALDE ZUÑIGA y las personas que considero sus hijos son los
> siguientes... pero hay tantas direrencias en las actas que me han puesto ha
> dudar si se trata de las mismas personas o estaré confundiendo algún hijo
> por padre, aquí los datos:
>
> Hijo 1: JOSE MARIA ALVINO: Hijo de Jose Maria Jaramillo y Paulina Ugalde
>
> Hijo 2: RAFAEL: Hijo de Jose Maria Elizalde y Paulina Ugalde.
>
> Hijo 3: JOSE LEON: Hijo de Jose Maria Xaramillo y Ma. Paulina Ugalde;
> Padrinos: Felipe ugalde y Manuela Zuñiga
>
> Hijo 4: MARIA SIBERIA: Hija de Jose Maria Jaramillo y Ma. Paulina de Ugalde
>
> Hijo 5: JOSE HEMETERIO: Hijo de Jose Maria Jaramillo y Maria paulina
> Ugalde; AP: Jose Maria Jaramillo y Lorenza Elizalde; AM: Felipe Ugalde y
> Manuela Zuñiga.
>
> Hijo 6: FELICIANA: Hija de Jose Maria Jaramillo y paulina Ugalde; AP: Jose
> Maria Jaramillo y Lorenza Lisalde; AM: Felipe Ugalde y Maria Manuela
> Zuñiga.
> Hijo 7: NICOLASA: Hija de Jose Maria Elizalde y Paulina Ubalde; AP: Jose
> Maria Elisalde y Lorenza Elizalde; AM: Felipe Ubalde y Manuela Zuñiga
>
> Hijo 8: JOSE LADISLAO: Hijo de Jose Maria Lisalde y Maria Paulina Ugalde;
> AP: Jose maria Lisalde y Lorenza Xaramillo; AM: Felipe Ugalde y Manuela
> Zuñiga
>
> Hijo 9: JOSE MARIANO- Hijo de Jose Maria Lizarde y Paulina Ugalde; AP:
> Jose Maria Lisalde y Lorenza Xaramillo; AM: Felipe Ugalde y Manuela Zuñiga
>
> Hijo 10: MARIA MAXIMA- Hijo de Josef Elizalde y Ma. Paulina Ugalde;
> AP:Jose Maria Elizalde y Lorenza Jaramillo; AM: Felipe Ugalde y Manuela
> Zuñiga.
>
> Hijo 11: MARIA DEL ROSARIO- Hija de Jose Maria Elizalde y Paulina Ubalde;
> AB: Jose Maria Elizalde y Lorensa Ubalde; AM:Paulino Ubalde y Manuela
> Gonzales
>
> Hijo 12: JOSE EUGENIO IGNACIO- Hijo de Jose Maria Elizalde y Paulina
> Ugalde, AP: Jose Elizalde y lorenza Peña; AM: Felipe Ugalde y Manuela
> Garcia.
>
> Como observan hay tantas variaciones en los apellidos que no entiendo como
> es había tantos errores al momento de hacer las actas, me llama la atención
> porque en todas aparece Paulina como madre y los AM (abuelos maternos) no
> cambian. ustedes que opinan???
>
> Saludos y todo lo mejor, Veronica.

Comentario

Hola, gracias a todos por sus valiosas opiniones y; Armando, gracias por el acta de matrimonio que no la tenía! Lo que se me hace curioso es que en el acta de los hijos si aparecen los papas de Jose Maria, solo que precisamente ellos son los confusos, al final pareciera que los papas son Jose Maria elizalde y Lorenza Xaramillo. Encontré así a una pareja en Irapuato: Jose Maria Elizalde y Thereza Xaramillo, tendré que indagar más haber si ellos fueron sus padres.
Todo lo mejor!
Verónica

Comentario

Todos son los mismos. Muchas de las actas fueron extaxtos por personas que por seguro el castellano era su segundo idioma, no su idioma natal. Es muy probable que la persona no tenia mucha experencia en palografia. Claro, debes revisar todas las actas como cualquiera para verificarlo y probarlo.

Daniel

Comentario

Veronica,

En mi opinion todos los hijos que mencionas vienen de los mismos padres. Las
diferencias que encontraste en estas actas es nada extrano - es el resultado
de una epoca en donde pocos podian leer y escribir.

-Angelina-

Dispensas matrimoniales Microfilm 1757-1762

Published by Salvador94 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola compañeros:

Comentarios

Trelles from Los Reinos De Castilla

Published by Marionicia –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone:

As this finding gives or brings direct connection to Europe at The Reinos De Castilla I thougth maybe somebody in the group could be interested.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Leticia,

He leido la informacion matrimonial hacia el link que proveiste y simplemente por Curiosidad, Es "Hernandez Treyes" el apellido completo? Es "Hernandez Treyes" un apellido compuesto como el Hernandez-Gamino? o es apellido Paterno y Materno?

Soy de apellido Hernandez y busco mis ancestros en la region de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco, Aunque no creo que mis ancestros esten relacionados a esta familia Hernandez que aparece en el link, pero todo es posible.

Alguien sabe de otras Familias Hernandez (y su origen), ademas de los Hernandez- Gamino, que radicaban en el area de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco?

Gracias,
Roberto Hdez

Comentario

Hola Roberto,
Seguro estos Hernandez-Trelles son parientes de los Villar Villamil. Est apellido es compuesto originario de los reinos de Castilla. Los unicos Hernandez en esa area del Obispado que llego a establecer y vincularse muy bien eran los Hernandez-Gamino. Seguro seria unas de las unicas familias espanolas de "Hernandez" que asentaron ahi. Hernandez Trelles no parce despues de este matrimonio, no he encontrada mas datos sobre esa familia.

Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

Hola Daniel,

Gracias por contestar mis preguntas. En mi busquedad sobre el origen de mi apellido, Hay veces que he llegado a creer que proviene de los Hernandez-Gamino y otras veces que no. Necesito encontrar mas documentos para salir de mi duda.

Gracias,
Roberto Hdez

Comentario

Hernandez de rueda. Tambien conocido como Fernandez de rueda.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ROHernandez@safrdig.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:37:00
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trelles de los Reinos de Castilla

Hola Leticia,

He leido la informacion matrimonial hacia el link que proveiste y simplemente por Curiosidad, Es "Hernandez Treyes" el apellido completo? Es "Hernandez Treyes" un apellido compuesto como el Hernandez-Gamino? o es apellido Paterno y Materno?

Soy de apellido Hernandez y busco mis ancestros en la region de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco, Aunque no creo que mis ancestros esten relacionados a esta familia Hernandez que aparece en el link, pero todo es posible.

Alguien sabe de otras Familias Hernandez (y su origen), ademas de los Hernandez- Gamino, que radicaban en el area de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco?

Gracias,
Roberto Hdez

Comentario

Hola Roberto,
no sé la respuesta a tu pregunta, quiza si revisas en familysearch lo de Ayotlán y La Barca puedas encontrar más informacion.
 
Parece ser apellido compuesto, ya que menciona al padre del pretenso con los dos apellidos y a la madre con otro que por cierto es ilegible para mí, empieza con Bar..nl..ego, tal vez alguien pueda ayudar mas.
 
Saludos, Leticia Leon

________________________________
De: "mygenes2000@yahoo.com"
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Enviado: Miércoles, 16 de noviembre, 2011 22:49:33
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trelles de los Reinos de Castilla

Hernandez de rueda. Tambien conocido como Fernandez de rueda.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ROHernandez@safrdig.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:37:00
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trelles de los Reinos de Castilla

Hola Leticia,

He leido la informacion matrimonial hacia el link que proveiste y simplemente por Curiosidad, Es "Hernandez Treyes" el apellido completo? Es "Hernandez Treyes" un apellido compuesto como el Hernandez-Gamino? o es apellido Paterno y Materno?

Soy de apellido Hernandez y busco mis ancestros en la region de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco, Aunque no creo que mis ancestros esten relacionados a esta familia Hernandez que aparece en el link, pero todo es posible.

Alguien sabe de otras Familias Hernandez (y su origen), ademas de los Hernandez- Gamino, que radicaban en el area de Ayotlan y La Barca Jalisco?

Gracias,
Roberto Hdez

Comentario

Sorry, in my last post, it is related to Ayotlán, Jalisco marriages instead of marriages Arandas, Jalisco

Lo siento, en mi último mensaje es matrimonios de Ayotlán, Jalisco en lugar de Arandas, Jalisco

Nobody dies until forgotten

regards, Leticia Leon

Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio de Lagos de Moreno de 1687.

Published by Ramirez –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola compañeros de nuestros ranchos, tengo tiempo queriendo resolver bien la conección que existe en una dispensa matrimonial de 1687 en Lagos de Moreno.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Jorge,

Mi interpretación de esta dispensa es la siguiente:

1. Juan de Rubalcava y María López fueron padres de

- Leonor de Rubalcava
- Beatriz de Rubalcava aka Beatriz López

2. Leonor casó en primeras nupcias con Sebastián Pérez y en segundas con
Juan de Ornelas.

3. Sebastián Pérez fue hermano de María López, madre de Leonor de Rubalcava
y de Beatriz López.

4. Juan de Ornelas era hijo de Beatriz López con (Fulano) de Ornelas.

Por lo antedicho, Sebastián Pérez era tío "carnal" de Beatriz López, madre
de Juan de Ornelas, como también lo era de Leonor de Rubalcaba. O sea que
Juan de Ornelas era sobrino de su esposa.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio deLagos
de Moreno de 1687.

Hola compañeros de nuestros ranchos, tengo tiempo queriendo resolver bien la
conección que existe en una dispensa matrimonial de 1687 en Lagos de Moreno.
Por mas que intento resolver la relación entre uno y otro, pienso que hay
algún error o simplemente no puedo hacerlo. A continuación transcribo del
libro de María de la Luz Montejano Hilton la mencionada dispensa:

Lagos de Moreno, Jal. Febrero 3 de 1687. Exp. 77.- Dispensa de trecero grado
de afinidad por cópula lícita.- Juan de Ornelas, español de 40 años de edad,
natural y vecino de esta feligresía de los Lagos; con Leonor de Rubalcava,
de 48 años de edad, viuda de Sebastián Pérez, hija legítima de Juan de
Rubalcava y de María López. Declaración del pretenso: María López, difunta,
fue hermana carnal de Sebastián Pérez, marido que fue de la dicha Leonor de
Rubalcava, pretensa contrayente, y madre de Beatriz López, y ésta lo fue del
dicho Juan de Ornelas, de suerte que el dicho Sebastián Pérez, fue tío
carnal de la dicha Beatriz López, madre de este pretenso. 8 fojas.

Si alguien me puede ayudar se lo agradeceré bastante. Me quise ayudar con el
libro de José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, pero quedé igual de
confundido.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311

Comentario

Gracias Bill, Sergio y Angelina por su ayuda. Que caso tan peculiar el de Leonor de Rubalcava, haberse casado con un tío carnal en primeras nupcias y con un sobrino carnal en segundas nupcias, me parecía algo extraño.

En los Altos de Jalisco es muy común la endogamia, pero este caso me pareció exagerado y hasta me parece un poco abominable de cierta manera.

De nuevo gracias por su ayuda.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comentario

Estoy de Acuerdo. Leonor primero se caso con su tio carnal, y viuda se caso con su sobrino carnal.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Angelina Markle"
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:24:21
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problemas con una dispensa de matrimonio
deLagos de Moreno de 1687.

Jorge,

Segun entiendo Juan de Ornelas fue sobrino de la dicha Leonor de Rubalcava.

Maria Lopez – Sebastian Perez (hermanos)

Hijas de Maria Lopez:
Leonor Rubalcava (se caso con el tio - Sebastian Perez)
Beatriz Lopez:
Juan de Ornales (hijo de Beatriz Lopez)

-Angelina-

Comentario

I have just gotten a copy of this dispensation, which is now online at Family Search (Guadalajara, Diocese of Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1664-1730, film #167982, beginning at image 488).

The dispensation is for the impediment of affinity in the third degree, not consanguinity, so there is no blood relationship between Juan de Ornelas and Leonor de Robalcava. The relationship is one by marriage, through Sebastian Peres.

The dispensation is confusing as written. What I believe the relationship is:

Juan de Ornelas is the son of Beatris de Lopez
Beatris Lopes is the daughter of Maria Lopez
Maria Lopez is the sister of Sebastian Peres (who is the former husband of Leonore de Robalcava and is the uncle of Beatris Lopez).

The statement of the witness Rodrigo de Olibara is as follows:

Sebastian Perez fue hermano carnal de Maria Lopez, y esta fue Madre de Beatris Lopez, que lo fue de el dicho Juan de Ornelas, por donde venia asser el dicho Sebastian Perez tio carnal de la Me de el contrayente.

This statement, I believe, clears up the other statements.

The word "carnal," if I understand it correctly, in this use means related by blood. My dictionary (Velazquez Spanish and English Dictionary), for example, defines "hermano carnal" as "brother by the same father and mother."

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hoy volví a leer esta dispensa y el hilo sobre ella.

Lagos de Moreno, Jal. Febrero 3 de 1687. Exp. 77.- Dispensa de trecero grado de AFINIDAD por cópula lícita.- Juan de Ornelas, español de 40 años de edad, natural y vecino de esta feligresía de los Lagos; con Leonor de Rubalcava, de 48 años de edad, viuda de Sebastián Pérez, hija legítima de Juan de Rubalcava y de María López. Declaración del pretenso: María López, difunta, fue hermana carnal de Sebastián Pérez, marido que fue de la dicha Leonor de Rubalcava, pretensa contrayente, y madre de Beatriz López, y ésta lo fue del dicho Juan de Ornelas, de suerte que el dicho Sebastián Pérez, fue tío carnal de la dicha Beatriz López, madre de este pretenso. 8 fojas.

Se me hace que le interpretación de George Fulton es la correcta. Esta dispensa es por causa de afinidad y no por consanguinidad. Eso es sumamente importante porque y nos dice que no casó Leonor con su tío y su sobrino. Casó con el sobrino nieto de su primero marido que es tercer grado de afinidad. Eso nos deja saber que hay dos personas homónimas del nombre María López que fue la causa de la confusión de muchos incluyendome a mí por no tomar en cuenta esa palabra clave. Una de las homónimas fue madre de Leonor y la otra fue hermana de Sebastián Pérez y abuela de Juan de Ornelas Pérez.

Una razón que me puse a estudiar esto es porque Sebastián Pérez y Leonor de Rubalcava tuvieron a Inés bautizada el 4 de marzo 1661 en Lagos y casada el 21 de marzo 1676 con Juan Gutíerrez en Lagos. Parece que esta Inés casó en segundas nupcias con Bacilio Valdés y entre otros hijos tuvieron a Luis [López] Valdés casado con Ana López de Lara en 1705 en Lagos cuya información matrimonial se encuentra en la siguiente página https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-29622-56?cc=1874591&wc… Estos son los antepasados del miembro Monica Ochoa.

Bacilio Valdés y Ana López de Lara también han de haber sido los padres de Juan Basilio de Valdés que casó con María Regla de Aguilar alrededor de 1712 antepasados de Daniel Mendez Camino.

Todos estos Valdés eran de los puestos de Santa María y La Mololoa que solo permanece con el mismo nombre Santa María ubicado en los limites del municipio de Encarnación de Díaz.

¿Hay alguien que me puede dar pistas sobre los abuelos y bisabuelos de Leonor de Rubalcava? He encontrado una página que menciona a sus padres como el Capitán Juan González de Rubalcava y Leonor Franco y menciona como fuente a Diversas Cartas de Jaime Holcombe pero no menciona de donde sacó esa conclusión Jaime. Existe la posibilidad que Leonor Franco fue la madre de Leonor de Rubalcava y hubo en error cuando escribieron la dispensa. ¿De quien era hijo ese Juan González de Rubalcava?

Gracias de antemano
Armando

Research Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16

Published by 8345tdbr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello,

I have been searching for some information for my Grandmother Aurora Cordero, she was born in 1897 or 1898 her parents were Aurelio Cordero and Senorina Borrego.

Comentarios

Comentario

Please please please can everyone try real hard not to leave the Digest
subject line intact in your replies to a Digest message.

Everyone should change the subject line to properly reflect the content
of the message they are sending AND please don't leave the entire
content of the digest message intact either, but rather cut and paste
just the appropriate part of the message.

thanks for your cooperation,

joseph

> Could you please provide your grandmother parent;s names? The more information you share the better we can help you.
>
>
>

Culinary History

Published by nc_coleman –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I came across this article - while searching for something unrelated to cooking. I thought it would be of interest.

Comentarios

Comentario

Oh, thank you, Natalie. I downloaded several of the recipes from the article and others.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: nc_coleman@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:41:15 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Culinary History
>
> I came across this article - while searching for something unrelated to cooking. I thought it would be of interest.
>
> The lead-in reads: "In rural Zacatecas, Mexico, a young writer explores his heritage by cooking the rustic, boldly flavored dishes of the region."
>
> In truth, I have not read the entire article, so I can't provide a critique.
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.saveur.com/article/Travels/Mexico-Feeds-Me
>
> Natalie
>

Comentario

Thanks Natalie for sharing,

Cute story, that could apply to many of us.

Alicia,
San Jose, ca

________________________________
From: "nc_coleman@yahoo.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 1:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Culinary History

I came across this article - while searching for something unrelated to cooking. I thought it would be of interest.

The lead-in reads: "In rural Zacatecas, Mexico, a young writer explores his heritage by cooking the rustic, boldly flavored dishes of the region."

In truth, I have not read the entire article, so I can't provide a critique.

See here:

http://www.saveur.com/article/Travels/Mexico-Feeds-Me

Natalie

Is something going at Family Search

Published by gpf13 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Is anyone having problems viewing images at Family Search tonight?

George Fulton

Comentarios

Comentario

George,

I'm on right now without any problems.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "gpf13@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:53 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Is something going at Family Search

Is anyone having problems viewing images at Family Search tonight?

George Fulton

Comentario

I have had not problems but recently had to reset my bookmarks as I was
getting only blank pages.

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

> George,
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "gpf13@aol.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:53 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Is something going at Family Search
>
> Is anyone having problems viewing images at Family Search tonight?
>
> George Fulton

El Sagrario Aguascalientes Records questions

Published by mazochoa –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello,

I am looking for a baptismal record for Maria Valentina Barrientos/varrientos Gonzales (1819). My search has brought some questions to mind.

Comentarios

Comentario

Dear Monica,

From early medieval times up to the Reformas Borbónicas (late XVIII century) the custom of surnames did not include a definite rule or order. A person could technically pick whichever surname he chose or deemed worthy of his/her benefit. This was based on persona preference. Often, woman took on maternal names, while men took their father’s; some examples include Alonso Guerra Valadés & Juan López de Elizalde who took on their mother’s names, but was not always the case.

Other times, children took on grandparent’s name for example if they were a namesake or they could choose a surname of an illustrious ancestor. This often occurred with the nobility, titled, untitled hijosdalgos and mayorazgos that often “forced” the possessor to carry down the name. Many times, within the same family this would occure. If Pedro Rodríguez de la Vera married Ana Gómez Pérez de Escalante and had seven children were born into this union. Four of the kids would use Rodríguez de la Vera, while two daughters used Franco de Escalante after their grandmother and the last one would use Pérez de Montoya after their great grandfather.

It also becomes more complicated when two houses joined or compounded their surname. Many if not all Spanish surnames were created this way, often referred as a sole practice of nobility, but is not always the case, it really depends on each individual family. Many examples can be found throughout all of Mexico. A great example would be the Hurtado de Mendoza family of Los Altos de Jalisco. Through compounding, this house created many new families: Jiménez de Mendoza, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Ornelas y Mendoza, Sánchez de Mendoza, etc, though they all have a common trunk.

My personal examples would be Méndez de Torres. My paternal last name was created when Antonio Méndez de Sotomayor married María de Torres Fuentes in the late XVI century. My mother’s is Camino y Trasgallo or Camino-Trasgallo created when Antonio de Camino married Ana de Trasgallo y Escorza in the mid XVIII century.

Many surnames say González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes, over time descendants lost the significance of their surname and shortened to Hermosillo or González. I read once that often they sounded too Spanish or pro-penínsular and many changed or shortened their names, but this does not convince me. The independenc replaced peninsular régime with a criollo régime. The kids took over the parent’s position. It would be more convenient to be introduced as José González Pérez then José González de Hermosillo y Pérez de Paredes. However there are many throughout México that still use the original González de Hermosillo, especially in Aguascalientes and Guadalajara. The other day I was watching on a Spanish channel about a haunted hacienda in the limits of Guadalajara, the original owners were a Flores Alatore and González Rubio in the late XIX century. However if this José González Pérez were to research his genealogy, he would eventually find out his original last names were González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes. This could explain your González y Barrientos or González-Barrientos or González de Barrientos. As for the preposition “de” or “y” this can get complicated. Officially on records now days, I don’t think you would see “y”, I could be wrong. I heard once that Mexico City and Spain still conserve this. During colonial times it was common to see “de”, “de la”, “del”,“y”

During the colonial era, each person usually was placed in a casta or caste. Colonial America had a standard caste system all were placed in one, when they were baptized. Whether español (European, I found out this did not solely mean Spanish descent), mestizo (mixed), negro, lobo, etc. It was difficult for people to “move up” unless they married español. In one of my lines I have mestizos passing as “españols” and marrying español this created castizo children or ¾ European and ¼ Amerindian children. A perfect example of this would be my Purépecha line of descent from Tzinzticha Tangaxoan II whose descendants married into español. Also, the Moctezuma line that married into español.

I hope this helps and that I stated everything clearly. Without a doubt this a very interesting subject. If you need help on your genealogy, just ask away, I usually have some extra time on my hands. I am well informed in Aguascalientes genealogy, my mother’s beautiful city.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

Comentario

Daniel,

Thank you so much for the clarification. You couldn't have been more clear. I appreciate you taking the time to explain in such detail. I have learned so much from being in this group and I continue to do so everyday, with the help and patience of people like yourself.

I am very grateful for your offer of assistance as well, and will certainly take you up on it in the near future, as I have so much more research to do.

Thanks again so much!

Best regards,
Monica Ochoa

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