Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi Anita--

I've been working on an extensive Banuelos family tree from Ranchos Las Bocas, located close to Huejucar (not too far from Tepetongo and Juanchorrey). I did not locate the names you mentioned in my tree, but I suspect that your Banuelos branch is related to mine.

I did find this:

GERMAN BANUELOS CARLOS Pedigree
Male

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 MAY 1851 Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico

Death:
Burial:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: CLETO BANUELOS Family
Mother: CLEMENCIA CARLOS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C600836 1850 - 1858 0445161

I do have some Tepetongo films, but not this one. If you look up the record, it may list the grandparents' names. If so, that may help me to see if your Banuelos family connects with mine. I have at a few Banuelos women marrying Gonzales men.

Let me know what you think.

Rosalinda

-----Original Message-----
>From: anna1m
>Sent: Aug 27, 2008 12:56 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bañuelos
>
>
>Greetings from Lockhart, Tx: I need help with backtracking my Bañuelos ancestors. Marcelo Gonzales Bañuelos b 7 Jan 1859 in Juanchorrey Zac, son of Juan Jose Jesus Gonzales and Maria de Jesus Bañuelos b abt 1837, daughter of Anacelso (Aka Cleto) Bañuelos and Clemencia Carlos. Any help is appreciated as the present dialogue is very interesting. Thanks - Anita

Hello - by any chance does anyone have this book? If so would you mind
looking something up? -Angelina-

Hello to everyone, my name is Cecilia and I am re-introducing myself to the group. I have been a member for a little while and I thank all of you sent me information on my Olivar Family. I have been reading the discussions about the Villalobos family. My great-grandfather was Tomas Villalobos married to Carmen De Los Santos who died in childbirth when my grandmother Jacoba Villaobos was born July 25 1901, Jacoba married Jose Olivar. It is said that Tomas died in a mine accident in Arizona in about 1914. That's all I know about the Villalobos side of my family. I have more on the Olivar side and you can see it on my family tree. But I really am stuck and any little bit of info on my families is greatly appreciated. Thanks to all, and hello again

Greetings from Lockhart. A question for Leticia Salazar. I have been looking over your info and it looks like our lines cross with Luiz Antonio Francisco Correa married to Juana Petra Carlos. Also with Bernardo Ignacio Gonzalez married to Juana Michaela del Muro. Do you have source references from that point back? Also when I get to Josepha Gonzalez you show two. One Josepha Gonzales married to unknown and mother of Juan Gonzalez and one Josepha Gonzales de Aro married to Manuel de la Torre and mother of Juana del Torre. Both Josephas are shown as daughters of Gabriel Gonzalez and Maria Anna de Quero. Were these two different daughters with the same name or only one who married twice. I am confused as there are no dates shown. Thanks for all the research you have done and shared. Anita

What is the name of the style name of the genealogical report that you run on the Family Tree Maker?

Bienenido Victor,

Al igual que tu estoy investigando ancestros en Jalisco principalmente
y algunos en Aguascalientes y Zacatecas. Tengo casi 10 años haciendo
estos estudios. Es posible que los apellidos Mora y Martinez de tu
rama materna tengan parentesco con los mios. Te invito a que revises
el archivo de mi abuelo paterno (Francisco Sanchez) en donde
encontraras estos apellidos.

Si te puedo sugerir algo, ahora que estas recopilando tus datos
genealogicos, es que es buena idea usar un programa de genealogia. Yo
comenze usando PAF. Este programa es gratis y tiene version en
Español (la version 4.0). Me gusta este programa por que te permite
usar caracteres Unicode, que es lo que te permite usar los acentos, la
ñ, etc. Produce tambien reportes como los que produci yo mis
archivos. Ultimamente empece a buscar otra programa que tenga mas
opciones para reportes y encontre Genbox Family History. Estoy
trabajando en la traduccion Castellana de este programa. Ya que
termine les aviso al que le interese.

Maria Elena Cortez
Sacramento, CA

> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Presentaci?n
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <62474.97490.qm@web32605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hola a todos:
> Mi nombre es V?ctor Manuel Ortiz Mart?nez, nacido el 16 de mayo de 1950 en Guadalajara, Jalisco. Actualmente estoy jubilado del Instituto Nacional de Estad?stica, Geograf?a e Inform?tica, INEGI, donde trabaj? por m?s de treinta a?os, primero en el levantamiento de la Carta Topogr?fica de la Rep?blica Mexicana, lo que me llev? a viajar por todo el pa?s. Posteriormente, en la investigaci?n documental de nombres geogr?ficos.
> ?
> Aunque soy originario de Guadalajara, Jal., he vivido y vivo en la ciudad de M?xico desde los 9 a?os de edad. Mi inter?s de unirme a Nuestros Ranchos est? en relaci?n a mi deseo de investigar la genealog?a de mi familia en general y de mi rama materna en particular, a la que corresponden los apellidos Mart?nez, Arias, Mora y Jaime, cuyo origen se encuentra en los estados de Jalisco y Aguascalientes, concretamente en las localidades de Encarnaci?n de D?az (a la que se le conoce popularmente como ?La Chona?) y Asientos. Desde luego, el mismo inter?s tengo en profundizar en la historia de mi rama paterna, a la que corresponden los apellidos Ortiz, Araujo, Arias y Arteaga, pero para ello tendr? que buscar en otra parte porque las ra?ces de ?stos se encuentran en el estado de Quer?taro.
> ?

En el transcurso de las investigaciones sobre mis antepasados en México me hé dado cuenta de que en lugares como los Altos de Jalisco en donde se evitó concientemente el mestizaje, es posible seguir la linea de asendencia de las familias que se asentaron en esos lugares durante el tiempo de la Colonia. Como en mi caso 'Los Navarro de Tepatitlán' que espero poder estudiar en los libros por salir del Lic. González Leal, ojalá pronto. Tuve problemas con dos de mis antepasados pues encontré varias personas con el mismo nombre y apellido, en un caso ambos apellidos son idénticos aunque los padres del bautizado son diferentes, todos en la misma época y en Tepatitlán.

Pero en otros lugares donde la población indigena era numerosa y el deseo de cristianizar urgente, solía suceder que se bautizaran grupos de indigenas, apadrinandolos un español y por supuesto a todos les ponían un nombre cristiano y el apellido del padrino, así pasaba a los decendientes de esos indios el apellido europeo. Para nuestra desgracia ahi empezó a perderse la genealogía indigena que debería ser tan importante como la europea.

Cuando quise buscar a mis antepasados en Milpa Alta DF,
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/milpaalta.htm
no pude ir muy lejos, aunque ahí, según lo que he leido en una Monografía de Milpa Alta de Dn. Alfonso Reyes, ésta región fué tomada por los españoles por la vía diplomática, 8 años después de la caida de Tenochtitlán a pesar de su cercanía. El primer enviado del gobierno español fué Juan de Saucedo que llegó el 29 de Julio de 1529 con un documento de reconocimiento de todas las tribus, de sus tierras de cultivo, de montes, de pedregales y de aguas que hasta entonces ocuparan sus habitantes que estaban bien organizados en comunidades sedentarias, dedicadas al cultivo de la tierra y la cría de ganado menor. El grupo de españoles llegó acompañado por un grupo de frailes franciscanos que aprovecharon los días que duró el evento para bautizar a los jefes tribales y a muchos naturales, no se mencionan bautizos colectivos, pero es obvio que les pusieron nombres cristianos.

De que sí hubo resistencia y agresividad atestigua la arquitectura de sus parroquias y conventos que dan la impresión de fortalezas, tal vez por eso los españoles optaron por la diplomacia y no creo que hayan construido esos masivos templos por gusto.

En el Padrón del Curato de Milpa Alta, año de 1797 encontré varias personas con nombre español y apellido nahuatl lo que se ha perdido con el tiempo. En el mismo padrón todas las calles de la población y algunas casas aparecen con nombre nahuatl. Casas que en vez de número tenían nombre. A seis personas les sigue la aclaración en parentesis (español) y a tres (coiote). Mi apellido no aparece en Milpa Alta, pero sí varias veces en un pueblo situado a 5 Km al norte, en una lista titulada "Los de Razón" y una vez en una lista titulada "Indios" por lo que asumo que tal vez ahí estén mis raices, pero quizas nunca lo sabré. Alguien sabe quienes eran "Los de Razón" ?

Un señor me dijo que su apellido era "prestado" lo que quiere decir que alguien sin apellido le pedía permiso a otra persona de usar su apellido para arreglar algún asunto legal y después lo seguía usando para su familia. O personas que le ponían a su hijo el nombre completo de alguién al que respetaban o querían mucho. Sirvientes que recibían el apellido del patrón o del rancho en que trabajaban. Todo esto hace la geneología de una familia en estos lugares casi imposible.

Otra cosa con la que me he topado son matrimonios de personas sin apellido como "Hilario casado con Sinforosa" o simplemente la fecha y "Matrimonio de Indios", si se trataba de una pareja o varias no es posible saber.

Además de los registros de las iglesias hay que consultar en protocolos patronales de las haciendas, archivos de las dependencias del gobierno como censos, títulos de propiedad (urbarium), registros de artesanos, archivos militares, etc., tomando en cuenta lo que se sabe de cada individuo. Por desgracia la mayoría de las personas pasamos a la anonimidad, solamente el que fué importante en vida pasa a la historia por sus buenas o malas obras.

Agradeceré sugerencias que me ayuden a progresar en la búsqueda , así como la corrección de errores.

Atentos saludos

Bertha Medina de Boehm
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Hi,
I was very much interested in the discussion in Spanish of the evolution of
surnames. I can kind of translate it as I read it, but there are some parts
that I am not getting. This is a very interesting topic. Can anyone give a
brief translation of this discussion? I get the part about their being
separate books for baptisms of hijos naturales and for the indios, because I
have seen this for myself. What I am not quite understanding, is the part
about the "siglo," where I think it is saying that the indigenous population
had to pay some sort of tribute? Well, can someone explain that part, which
must be referring to the early part of Mexico's Spanish history within New
Spain, I am guessing.

Thanks,
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Hola a todos:
Mi nombre es Víctor Manuel Ortiz Martínez, nacido el 16 de mayo de 1950 en Guadalajara, Jalisco. Actualmente estoy jubilado del Instituto Nacional de Estadística, Geografía e Informática, INEGI, donde trabajé por más de treinta años, primero en el levantamiento de la Carta Topográfica de la República Mexicana, lo que me llevó a viajar por todo el país. Posteriormente, en la investigación documental de nombres geográficos.
 
Aunque soy originario de Guadalajara, Jal., he vivido y vivo en la ciudad de México desde los 9 años de edad. Mi interés de unirme a Nuestros Ranchos está en relación a mi deseo de investigar la genealogía de mi familia en general y de mi rama materna en particular, a la que corresponden los apellidos Martínez, Arias, Mora y Jaime, cuyo origen se encuentra en los estados de Jalisco y Aguascalientes, concretamente en las localidades de Encarnación de Díaz (a la que se le conoce popularmente como “La Chona”) y Asientos. Desde luego, el mismo interés tengo en profundizar en la historia de mi rama paterna, a la que corresponden los apellidos Ortiz, Araujo, Arias y Arteaga, pero para ello tendré que buscar en otra parte porque las raíces de éstos se encuentran en el estado de Querétaro.
 
Sé que Nuestros Ranchos está constituido por un grupo bilingüe, por personas que viven en México pero también por personas que llevan tres o cuatro generaciones en los Estados Unidos. En ese sentido, podría decirse que “oficialmente” yo soy bilingüe, pero no quisiera utilizar la lengua inglesa sino para casos y situaciones concretas porque no me cabe duda de que jamás tendré en inglés la misma capacidad de expresión que puedo tener en español.
 
En realidad, mi inscripción a Nuestros Ranchos data de casi dos años (octubre de 2006), sin embargo en un principio carecía por completo de datos documentados en relación a mis búsquedas. En esos días leí un comentario en uno de los correos de Nuestros Ranchos, reprochando a aquellos que se inscribían con el solo propósito de aprovechar el trabajo de los otros participantes sin aportar nada. Aquel comentario, en vista de la miseria de conocimientos en que yo me encontraba, me inhibió a tal grado que no me atreví a hacer mi presentación. Actualmente ya tengo un poco más de experiencia trabajando en los sitios de Family Search.org y Ancestry.com, y he reunido una cantidad más o menos razonable de datos que pongo sin reserva a la disposición de ustedes. De igual manera, durante este tiempo he podido notar, a través de los correos de Nuestros Ranchos, que han llegado a surgir duda y discusiones en la que quizá mi intervención hubiese sido
de utilidad. Ejemplo, la duda que alguna vez se planteó acerca de dónde era Cuauhtémoc, D. F., a donde está referidos algunos de los registros de Family Search según pude darme cuenta cuando ocupé esas fuentes de datos.
 
En síntesis, estoy seguro que con la ayuda y la asesoría de todos ustedes, podré lograr avances importantes en la investigación de mi genealogía familiar, a la vez que estoy dispuesto a dar todo lo que pudiera ser de utilidad a Nuestros Ranchos como mi modesta aportación. Para esto tengo que mencionar que como parte de mi capacitación para trabajar con nombres geográficos, he realizado cursos de paleografía y diplomática en el Archivo General de la Nación. Así pues, me ofrezco para la transcripción de toda clase de documentos de los siglos XVI al XIX, pues en este punto me he encontrado errores graves que pueden desorientar fácilmente una investigación. Por ejemplo, el nombre de mi bisabuela, la madre de mi abuela materna, era Sabina Jaime, y la he encontrado en los registros como Sabina Jaimes, Sabina Jayme, Sabina Jaine, Sabina Jassue, Sabina Jatie, etcétera.
 
Atentamente,
Víctor Manuel Ortiz Martínez.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! MTV Blog & Rock >¡Cuéntanos tu historia, inspira una canción y gánate un viaje a los Premios MTV! Participa aquí http://mtvla.yahoo.com/

I have not posted since my introduction when I joined a few months ago but since then I have ordered the film for my great-grandparent's marriage. They were married in San Diego De Alejandria, Jalisco. The film is very blurry and hard to read. My Spanish is also a little rusty but I was able to make out that my great-grandmother Cenorina Vasquez, daughter of Jose Eduviguez Vasquez and (it looks like) Demetina Vazquez, was from San Sabastian. I have not been able to find anything further. No baptism files, no marriage records from her parents. I don't even know where San Sebastian is. I had read an email from this group that San Sabastian was in someone's research. i can't find that email but does that someone happen to recognize these names or know where it is? Any information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated!

Ann Rubio Valdez
Sugar Land, Texas

Cristobal,

Here is what I have been able to piece together. If you would like this
report in PDF or RTF format let me know, and I can send you a copy.

Jonathan

First Generation

1. Cristobal VILLALOBOS LOMELIN was born.

Third Generation

4. Cresencio VILLALOBOS QUESADA was born on 29 Dec 1892 in Encarnacion de
Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 26 Dec 1972 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico.
Cresencio VILLALOBOS QUESADA and Maria Luisa PEREZ ALBA were married on 12
Jun 1920 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico.

5. Maria Luisa PEREZ ALBA was born on 1 Oct 1895 in San Luis Potosi,
Mexico. She died on 16 Aug 1984 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico. Cresencio
VILLALOBOS QUESADA and Maria Luisa PEREZ ALBA had the following children:

i. Jose Jesus VILLALOBOS PEREZ was born in 1923.
ii. Maria de los Angles VILLALOBOS PEREZ was born in 1924.
iii. Fernando VILLALOBOS was born in 1926. He died in 1989.
iv. Maria de Refugio VILLALOBOS PEREZ was born in 1927.
2 v. Cresencio Ignacio VILLALOBOS PEREZ.
vi. Juan Manuel VILLALOBOS PEREZ was born in 1939. He died in 1996.

6. Jesus LOMELIN ORTIZ was born in 1890. He died in San Luis Potosi,
Mexico. Jesus LOMELIN ORTIZ and Maria de la Luz SANCHEZ were married.

7. Maria de la Luz SANCHEZ was born in San Luis Potosi, Mexico. She died
in San Luis Potosi, Mexico. Jesus LOMELIN ORTIZ and Maria de la Luz SANCHEZ
had the following children:

3 i. Maria del Refugio LOMELIN SANCHEZ.

Fourth Generation

8. Anacleto VILLALOBOS CORNEJO1 was born on 13 Jul 1862 in Encarnacion de
Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. Anacleto VILLALOBOS CORNEJO and Maria del Refugio
QUESADA MARTINEZ were married on 16 Feb 1885 in Encarnacion de Diaz,
Jalisco, Mexico.2 Batch Number M602696

9. Maria del Refugio QUESADA MARTINEZ3 was born in Encarnacion de Diaz,
Jalisco, Mexico. Anacleto VILLALOBOS CORNEJO and Maria del Refugio QUESADA
MARTINEZ had the following children:

4 i. Cresencio VILLALOBOS QUESADA.

10. PASTOR PEREZ4,5 was born about 1846. PASTOR PEREZ and MARIA DE LOS
ANGELES DE ALVA JIMENES were married on 14 Feb 1870 in San Juan De Los
Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.

11. MARIA DE LOS ANGELES DE ALVA JIMENES6,7,8 was christened on 3 Aug 1852
in San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico. PASTOR PEREZ and MARIA DE LOS
ANGELES DE ALVA JIMENES had the following children:

i. JOSE MARIA PEREZ ALBA9,10 was christened on 9 Jul 1874 in San Juan De
Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
ii. Maria de Jesus PEREZ was born.
iii. Jose Guadalupe PEREZ ALBA was born.
iv. Antonia PEREZ ALBA was born.
v. Constantina PEREZ ALBA was born.
vi. Trinidad PEREZ was born.
vii. Higinio PEREZ ALBA was born.
5 viii. Maria Luisa PEREZ ALBA.

12. Florencio LOMELIN DIAZ11,12 was christened on 23 Feb 1852 in Santa
Maria De Los Lagos, Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 6 Jan
1932. He was born in Lagos de Moreno, Jaliscio, Mexico. Florencio LOMELIN
DIAZ and Maria del Refugio ORTIZ LOPEZ were married on 5 Feb 1885 in
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.13

13. Maria del Refugio ORTIZ LOPEZ14,15 was christened on 25 Nov 1856 in
Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico. She was born in Aguascalientes, Mexico.
She died in Villa de Arriage. Florencio LOMELIN DIAZ and Maria del Refugio
ORTIZ LOPEZ had the following children:

i. Jose Refugios LOMELIN ORTIZ was born.
ii. Miguel LOMELIN ORTIZ was born.
6 iii. Jesus LOMELIN ORTIZ.
iv. Ambrosio LOMELIN ORTIZ was born.
v. Maria Mercedes LOMELIN ORTIZ was born on 13 Apr 1901. She died on 23
Jan 1974.
vi. Maria LOMELIN ORTIZ was born.

Fifth Generation

16. Fernando VILLALOBOS LOPEZ16,17,18 was born on 1 Jun 1838 in San Juan De
Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico. He was christened on 1 Jun 1838 in San Juan De
Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico. Fernando VILLALOBOS LOPEZ and Seberiana CORNEJO
VILLALOBOS were married on 2 Mar 1859 in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco,
Mexico.

17. Seberiana CORNEJO VILLALOBOS19,20 was born on 26 Feb 1843 in
Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 26 Feb 1843 in
La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.21 Fernando VILLALOBOS
LOPEZ and Seberiana CORNEJO VILLALOBOS had the following children:

8 i. Anacleto VILLALOBOS CORNEJO.
ii. ALBINO VILLALOBOS CORNEJO22 was christened on 17 Dec 1860 in San Juan
De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.

18. Refugio QUEZADA23 was born. Refugio QUEZADA and MARTA MARTIN were
married on 25 Oct 1854 in San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.

19. MARTA MARTIN24 was born. Refugio QUEZADA and MARTA MARTIN had the
following children:

9 i. Maria del Refugio QUESADA MARTINEZ.
ii. FRANCISCO QUESADA MARTIN25 was christened on 22 Jul 1870 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.
iii. Maria QUEZADA26 was born in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz,
Jalisco, Mexico.

20. JOSE GUADALUPE PEREZ27,28 was born about 1825. JOSE GUADALUPE PEREZ
and MARIA DE LA CRUZ LOZANO PEREZ were married on 17 Jan 1843 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.

21. MARIA DE LA CRUZ LOZANO PEREZ29,30,31 was christened on 9 May 1828 in
La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. JOSE GUADALUPE PEREZ
and MARIA DE LA CRUZ LOZANO PEREZ had the following children:

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: Jose Aguayo
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: General post from jose973@comcast.net requires approval]

I see you as a subscribed member now. can you send your below message to the research@nuestrosranchos.org list to see if it goes through? email me as soon as you send it and I'll look to make sure it went through. thanks

here is your previous message:

Subject: Aguayo y Los Aguayos
From: Jose Aguayo Ortega
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 16:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

I have hit the proverbial brick wall on researching the surname Aguayo from the present back to the late 1700s in Aguascalientes. So I decided to try to locate the first Aguayos who came to the New World during the Conquest and work forward from them to see if their was a connection with my research working back. In September 2007, my wife and I visited Cantabria, Spain where legend has the Aguayo surname beginning. Allegedly there were three Goth brothers who participated in the reconquest of Spain during the 12th and 13th centuries. The family gave their name to the region of Aguayo and to three villages -- Santa Olallya de Aguayo, Santa Maria de Aguayo, and San Miguel de Aguayo. We visited all three villages, asked questions about the history of the region, and about the surname. The present villagers knew little about the surname, but we met Manuel Garcia Alonso, who has a home in San Miguel de Aguayo and is a professor at a university in Santander. Alonso has writ

ten Aguayo y los Aguayos, an ethnographic and historical study of the region. According to Alonso and other sources, the Aguayos were gone from the region by the 15th century. They continued fighting in the reconquest around Cordoba, Saenz, and Ejica. For their service to the various kings, they received titles and a coat of arms. This coat of arms is still visible on a Casa Fuerte in San Miguel de Aguayo where they apparently retained some ties to the area. Three Aguayo brothers from Portillo, Spain are listed in the Indice Geobiographico de Pobladores de America. Lorenzo de Aguayo apparently was a member of the Panfilo de Narvaez expedition sent to arrest Cortez in Mexico in 1521. Cortez succeeded in subduing the Narvaez party and getting them to join him in the conquest of Mexico. Lorenzo Aguayo died in that campaign. Diego de Aguayo died in the Cristobal de Olid expedition to Honduras in 1532. Antonio de Aguayo campaigned with Nunez de Guzman in Nuevo Galicia in
1542 and received small encomiendas around Purificacion. His descendants are listed up to the early 1700s in Vasquez y Frias, Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII Segun sus Archivos Parroquiales. I would greatly appreciate information anyone might have about these Aguayos. My hope is that their lineage will connect to mine somewhere in the mid-1700s.

Jose Aguayo wrote:
I don't know what the problem may be. Sometime ago, some of us who use comcast as our server could not get our e-mail. Nevertheless, my name is Jose Aguayo, username is Jose Aguayo Ortega, and e-mail address is jose973@comcast.net. I hope you can identify the problem. I miss being able to communicate with others in the Nuestros Ranchos family.
Jose Aguayo
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: Jose Aguayo
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:42 PM
Subject: [Fwd: General post from jose973@comcast.net requires approval]

seems that this email address is not your subscription email address or there is a problem. Is this the correct email address?

send me your name, username and subscription email address if you think the problem is on our end.

your message never went through.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes Genealogy)

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: General post from jose973@comcast.net requires approval
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:28:58 -0700
From: general-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

List: General@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: jose973@comcast.net
Subject: Aguayo y Los Aguayos
Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list

At your convenience, visit:

http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/admindb.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.org

to approve or deny the request.

Jose Aguayo, Welcome to the Group. Sorry, I don't have any information on the Aguayo surname. But your post reminded me of the myth of the three brothers. I read this article once that spoke in detail of the myth. I did a quick internet search and this was the best article I found:

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2006/02/there_were_thre…

Sounds like you have documented sources so I imagine in your case there was actually three brothers... But when I first started researching my genealogy, my father told me the story of the three brothers. I have researched his family six generations and the three brothers do not exist, well at least not yet ;-) . It's curious how everyone has a three brothers story. The original article I read (several years ago) attributed the story to Noah and his three sons who all went off in different directions. You then see it in medieval tales of a King and his three sons. The story gets repeated in fairy tales, etc. I guess three was the magic number.

Good luck on your Search,
Angie Godina

Cristobal,

I found a marriage record in Teocaltiche for FERNDO. DE VILLALOBOS, Spouse: MARIA MARCIANA LOZANO, 23 OCT 1769, on film 0639757, batch M602489(1768 - 1782) in the IGI. When I found the baptism records you have listed below the mother was identified as "Maria Lozano." I don't know if she is Nicolasa or Marciana. I suggest you check the record in the Teocaltiche film.

I also found a marriage record for Jose Manuel De Villalobos, Spouse: Maria Rosalia De Tejeda, 17 Jan 1779, on film 0639757, batch M602489(1768 - 1782) in the IGI. If you check this record you can see if he has the same parents as Fernando. I could not find any record of Jose Manuel married to Nicolasa Losano.

I also found an earlier marriage to Maria de Jesus Gusman in #1155497. I'll look at it tonight and send you the information. Let me know if you wish to have a copy of the record.

David Delgado Lopez in Albany, CA

Guenter and others:
I do not know when the practice began of assigning Spanish names to the
indigenous populations in Mexico, but I wouldn't doubt if it happened from
the beginning of the missionary times, because that was their purpose, to
convert the "savages" to Catholicism. That is literally the term they used
in one baptism record I found for the late 1700's from the Mission Santa
Ysabel, Chihuahua, calling the mother and father of the child "savages of
the Apache Nation." The child's name was, of course, Josefa, and the
parent's were Jose and Maria, no last names. The entire book on baptisms of
the Huichol Indians of Huejuquilla El Alto for the late 1700's and early
1800's, were of only Spanish names, all Jose and Maria Valenzuela or
Gonzalez. A very common name used was Juan Nepomuceno and Maria de Jesus.
Given the fact that so many of the villages, pueblos, and ranchos had names
like Papagochic and Uruachic and Memelechic, etc., it is not too surprising
to learn that, when the indigenous person's real name is given, it also ends
in "chic."

I like what Alicia Carrillo said, that "it's the discovery of the new and
unknown" that is the real thrill of genealogy. She got it exactly right for
myself. I mean, all these people I am finding are dead, but piecing
together their lives, filling it out with the history and the geography,
brings it to life in my imagination. It is really fascinating to me and I
feel like I am an explorer, searching for each step on the path that my
ancestors once took and where it led them. To think that part of it
actually led to me, with my brown hair and my brown eyes and my olive skin,
sitting here typing a message to people in other countries, well, that is
amazing!

I am also doing my husband's family history research while I wait for
microfilms of Mexican records to arrive. It has added more interest to the
quest, in that, he is French and English, so I am making some interesting
discoveries that parallel my family ancestry in Spanish and German. Such
as, our own American history begins with the English, the French, and the
Spanish. There are many Spaniards that came to Louisiana, as we know from
history, but to find the same surnames in my husband's family history search
as my own is funny. Like the name, "Sosthene." That is the given name of
his French grandfather and great-grandfather, Sosthene Ardoin. Well, I have
found a few "Sostene's" in Guadalajara, though they are followed by Sanchez
or Vasquez, etc.

Yes, Mexico is a melting pot, part of the New World, just as the USA, with
people immigrating there from all around the world. The Chinese were
brought there to build for the Spanish just as they came to the United
States to do the same and, sadly, Africans were brought to be slaves in New
Spain, too.

Well, my granddaughter just woke up! Gotta go!
Adios, Ciao, Arrivederci, Bon Soir!
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria de la Isla de California

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum but but have been researching my family history for a while. I am currently a bit lost and hoping for some feedback. I'm looking for the Romo family from Rincon de Romos, Ags. in the late 1880s or early 1900s.

My grandfather was born somewhere in Aguascalientes (most likely Rincon de Romos) in the early 1900s. His name was Isidro Romo. He moved to Juchipila Zacatecas, where my father was born in 1939. I don't have his parents name, which makes the search more difficult.

Does anyone have any tips on how to get this information? Thanks

Minerva

Hello my name is Cristobal

I am new in the system, I am have 5 years making research about the last
names Villalobos, Quesada, Lomelín and Ortiz.

I would like to know if somebody now about the Villalobos in Encarnación de
Diaz( La Chona), Jalisco. I would like to get information before 1800.

My GGGGrandfather was MarcelIno Villalobos Losano how married with Rita
Lopez Ramirez I think the dates of when the were born or married are bad,
maybe Marcelino married several times.

I send you information about:

Descendants of Marcelino VILLALOBOS Losano

Generation No. 1

1. MARCELINO VILLALOBOS2 LOSANO (FERNANDO1 VILLALOBOS) was born 1792 in
Encarnación de Diaz, Jal, and died in Encarnación de Diaz, Jal. He married
RITA LOPEZ RAMIREZ 1837 in Encarnación de Diaz Jal. She was born 01 Ene
1794 in Encarnación de Diaz, Jal, and died in Encarnación de Diaz, Jal.

Children of MARCELINO Villalobos and RITA Lopez RAMIREZ are:

2. i. FERNANDO3 VILLALOBOS, b. 01 Jun 1838, San Juan de
los Lagos, Jal.

3. ii. ISIDRO VILLALOBOS, b. 1839.

4. iii. NIEVES VILLALOBOS, b. 1844.

Generation No. 2

2. FERNANDO3 VILLALOBOS (MARCELINO VILLALOBOS2 LOSANO, FERNANDO1
VILLALOBOS) was born 01 Jun 1838 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jal1. He married
(1) SEBERIANA CORNEJO 02 Mar 1859 in Encarnación de Diaz Jal, daughter of
FRANCISCO CORNEJO and MARIA VILLALOBOS. She was born 26 Feb. 1843 in
Encarnación de Diaz, Jal. He married (2) MARIA DEL REFUGIO CORNEJO 13 Nov.
1867 in Encarnación de Diaz Jal, daughter of IGNACIO CORNEJO and ANA
CORNEJO.

Child of FERNANDO VILLALOBOS and SEBERIANA CORNEJO is:

i. ANACLETO4 VILLALOBOS, b. 13 Jul. 1862, Encarnación
de Diaz, Jal; d. 01 Ene 1935, San Luis Potosí; m. (1) MARIA DEL REFUGIO
QUESADA, 1890; b. Encarnación de Diaz, Jal; m. (2) BONIFACIA FLORES, 1900;
b. 14 May 1873, Las Trojes, Encarnación de Diaz, Jal; d. 19 Ago. 1973, San
Luis Potosí.

Children of FERNANDO VILLALOBOS and MARIA CORNEJO are:

ii. BRIGIDO4 VILLALOBOS.

iii. MARIA DE LOS DOLORES VILLALOBOS.

iv. FRANCISCA VILLALOBOS.

v. PIA VILLALOBOS.

vi. SERGIO VILLALOBOS, m. MARIA VAZQUEZ, 1905.

vii. MARIA MERCEDES VILLALOBOS.

viii. POMPOSA VILLALOBOS.

ix. RAMONA VILLALOBOS, m. JUAN MAYAGOITIA.

x. MARIA DE JESUS VILLALOBOS.

xi. JUANA VILLALOBOS.

xii. GREGORIO VILLALOBOS, m. MARIA DEL REFUGIO ROMO,
1894.

3. ISIDRO3 VILLALOBOS (MARCELINO VILLALOBOS2 LOSANO, FERNANDO1 VILLALOBOS)
was born 1839. He married JACOBA AGUILERA 14 Jul. 1857 in Teocaltiche Jal
(Señora de los dolores), daughter of JOSE AGUILERA and MA. GARCIA. She was
born 1839.

Children of ISIDRO VILLALOBOS and JACOBA AGUILERA are:

i. PEDRO4 VILLALOBOS, b. 1860; m. ASCENCION OROZCO,
1883.

ii. MAXIMINO VILLALOBOS, b. 1864; m. ANASTACIA LOZANO,
1893.

iii. REFUGIO VILLALOBOS, b. 1868; m. JOSEFA CAMPOS,
1895.

iv. AGAPITO VILLALOBOS, b. 20 Sep. 1871, Encarnación de
Diaz, Jal; d. 26 Abr. 1928; m. (1) ROSA GOMEZ, 1901; m. (2) MARIA GUADALUPE
OROZCO, 1914, Ameca Jal.; b. 01 May 1890, Tototlan Jal.; d. 13 Ago. 1940.

4. NIEVES3 VILLALOBOS (MARCELINO VILLALOBOS2 LOSANO, FERNANDO1 VILLALOBOS)
was born 1844. He married MARIA MORA 1877, daughter of PEDRO MORA.

Children of NIEVES VILLALOBOS and MARIA MORA are:

i. LIBRADO4 VILLALOBOS, m. ELIGIA AGUILERA, 1894.

ii. BRUNA VILLALOBOS.

Best reagrds

Cristóbal Villalobos

I have hit the proverbial brick wall on researching the surname Aguayo from the present back to the late 1700s in Aguascalientes. So I decided to try to locate the first Aguayos who came to the New World during the Conquest and work forward from them to see if their was a connection with my research working back. In September 2007, my wife and I visited Cantabria, Spain where legend has the Aguayo surname beginning. Allegedly there were three Goth brothers who participated in the reconquest of Spain during the 12th and 13th centuries. The family gave their name to the region of Aguayo and to three villages -- Santa Olallya de Aguayo, Santa Maria de Aguayo, and San Miguel de Aguayo. We visited all three villages, asked questions about the history of the region, and about the surname. The present villagers knew little about the surname, but we met Manuel Garcia Alonso, who has a home in San Miguel de Aguayo and is a professor at a university in Santander. Alonso has written Aguayo y los Aguayos, an ethnographic and historical study of the region. According to Alonso and other sources, the Aguayos were gone from the region by the 15th century. They continued fighting in the reconquest around Cordoba, Saenz, and Ejica. For their service to the various kings, they received titles and a coat of arms. This coat of arms is still visible on a Casa Fuerte in San Miguel de Aguayo where they apparently retained some ties to the area.
Three Aguayo brothers from Portillo, Spain are listed in the Indice Geobiographico de Pobladores de America. Lorenzo de Aguayo apparently was a member of the Panfilo de Narvaez expedition sent to arrest Cortez in Mexico in 1521. Cortez succeeded in subduing the Narvaez party and getting them to join him in the conquest of Mexico. Lorenzo Aguayo died in that campaign. Diego de Aguayo died in the Cristobal de Olid expedition to Honduras in 1532. Antonio de Aguayo campaigned with Nunez de Guzman in Nuevo Galicia in 1542 and received small encomiendas around Purificacion. His descendants are listed up to the early 1700s in Vasquez y Frias, Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII Segun sus Archivos Parroquiales.
I would greatly appreciate information anyone might have about these Aguayos. My hope is that their lineage will connect to mine somewhere in the mid-1700s.

Good Labor Day to all!
 
I wanted to reach out to the experts in the group for some help with the Santiago family from Villanueva, Zac.  I was so excited to break one more generation last night on the Santiago branch.  Up to now, I was stuck in the Juchipila/Moyahua area.  The couple is named Felipe de Santiago and Maria de la Candelaria Albares.  They were parents to Maria Catarina de Santiago.  Any insight in working the Villanueva area? What other towns can I focus on through Family Search?  The lists of Santiago in the area go on and on so any insight would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!!
 
*********************************
 
Feliz Dia del Trabajo a Todos!
 
Necesito un poco de ayuda departe de nuestros expertos del grupo con la familia Santiago de Villanueva, Zac.  Estoy tan emocionada porque anoche pude encontrar una generacion mas de la familia Santiago.  Hasta ahora solo habia podido encontrar en Juchipila/Moyahua.  La pareja se llamaba Felipe de Santiago y Maria de la Candelaria Albares.  Ellos eran los papas de Maria Catarina de Santiago.  Alguna informacion que me ayude a trabajar el area de Villanueva?  Cuales pueblos en los alrededores debo enfocarme a traves de Family Search?  La lista de Santiagos en el area es largisima.  Cualquier ayuda sera muy agradecida.
 
Gracias!!
 
Saludos desde San Antonio, TX!
Sandra Gómez Mendoza

There's a general mis-perception that if you were Español you would have to be white or fair skinned and blonde and blue eyed.

I watch many, many movies that are made throughout latin America and Spain and I have to tell you, based on the movies that I see from Spain, most people in Spain are still mostly brown haired and brown eyed, some blue eyes and some blonde but mostly brown. I also watch many Italian films and have many Italian friends and most are brown eyed and brown haired with a few blonde and blue eyed people, depending on how and with whom they have inter-married.

The fact is that the Spanish people were also a mixed breed with the proximity to northern Africa and taking into consideration that the Moros and the Jews had settled in Spain having come from the Arabian Peninsula. Anyone who has read world history has to know that all the nations of great sailors traveled the world, visiting and settling in foreign lands. We have to look at the historical migration patterns and the great diasporas to understand that even in the 1400's and 1500's people came in all colors, shapes, races and sizes.
Even the bible, especially the old testament talks of wars, invasions and migrations from one country to another. I think it's very naive to believe that because we have Mexican ancestry or are from Mexico that we should be a certain color.

The beauty of genealogical research is that we go where the records lead us. It's the discovery of the new and unknown. It's in making the connection with our past, whatever it is and wherever it leads and having the openness to accept those findings.

This journey of discovery and acceptance is what it's all about. Unfortunately I haven't been able to pursue my research due to other commitments but one day soon I will get back to the thrill of the hunt and the joy of finding and connecting with my ancestors. I don't really give a hoot if they were brown haired or blonde, green, blue or brown eyed. I still remember the first time I went to Central Mexico and we arrived in Jalpa Zacatecas. We walked into a bank and were waiting in a very long line. I kept on staring at some young ladies that were near the front of the line. I really don't know why I was staring at them and not at other people in that same line.

After we left the bank, we went into a loncheria, we were with my uncle, my mother's brother and in this loncheria were the young ladies I'd been staring at in the bank. My uncle sees them and says to me, those are your cousins, your primas hermanas, their father is your father's brother. I guess the reason I'd been staring is that we had many resemblances, we looked alike. I still get chills when I think of this day, how I could not take my eyes off my cousins even when I didn't know who they were.

Regards,
Alicia Carrillo de San Jose, Calif

Great discussion!

What got me started with family history research, was the fact that people
always tell me that I don't look Mexican, but always ask me if I am Native
American (Indian), because of my high cheekbones, my profile, dark skin and
long black hair. So, I decided to start searching for my "Roots" a few
years ago. (Now, this whole family history research is an obsession...er...
a very important interest to me.) People ask me what tribe I am, etc. I
don't know what to say to them, except the usual answer, "Well, my mother is
Mexican and so, ya know, I probably have some native, er, uh, indigenous, er
uh, Mexican Indian in me, ya know?"
My grandmother, surname Martin del Campo (de la yegua rusa) from Jalisco,
was red-haired, white skinned and freckled, but not blue-eyed. I don't look
like her except for the tendency to get freckles. Over the past few years,
as I have worked my way slowly back in time in my research in the areas of
Chihuahua, Sonora, and Jalisco, I have yet to find any indigenous roots. In
Chihuahua, there is certainly a possibility of Raramuri (Tarahumara), but I
don't look anything like them, or Yaqui. In Sonora, there is a possibility
of Opata, though I haven't seen any photos of the Opata. If there was any
Apache, well, that would certainly explain my fiestiness and rebelliousness,
also the fact that my ancestors, the Frias's in Chihuahua were among the
early instigators of the Mexican Revolution and, on my father's side, his
ancestors were among the early American Revolutionaries! So, yeah, I'm a
bit rebellious, you might say ;) And... any Native American on my
German/Scottish father's side, well, hmmm, he never found any in his own
research on his roots.

Well, in the mean time, my mother's side of the tree just gets bigger and
bigger with more and more "Espanolas." So, why do people think I am Indian?
Well, I recently met one of my grandmother's nieces. My mother took a
picture of us together and, wow, we look more like sisters than my real
sister and I did (she is deceased now). I just marvel at this picture.
Now, the only family we have in common is the Martin del Campo's. Her
mother and my grandmother were sisters. She has the same shape to her face
as mine, so my facial features had to come from that line, though my
research is stuck still in Guadalajara. My research is very slow with that
family. Then, I thought of my mom's great-grandmother, Rita Robles. She
was my grandmother's grandmother who married Ismael Martin del Campo.

Then, I realized, what am I doing? I'm just a "Heinz 57." That's all there
is to it and, whether or not there is any native blood in me, all I can say
to that is this: We are all descended from indigenous peoples somewhere in
the world, indigenous Celts, Welsh, Irish, European, Middle Eastern, etc.
etc. We were all once indigenous to someplace.

So, race no longer drives my research. There was something that John Schmal
wrote that, if you have Mexican ancestry, the chances of having indigenous
blood is pretty certain and you won't be able to find out what, because it
was not always recorded. I beg to differ, somewhat. I have found Huichol
Indian baptism records in my research in Huejuquilla El Alto. And, I have
found Apache baptism records in my research in Chihuahua and there have been
others. This could go on and on.......but like others have said, there are
a few "Josefa Valenzuela's" in my family tree, those generic Spanish names
assigned to the native peoples of Mexico.

Well, this is a discussion that is a long one.
Later, gators!
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Sunday, August 31, 2008

Dear Corrine--

I loved your email. It reminded me of the discussions I have had about certain members of the family--things like if you are left-handed you are probably with this family, or if you are long and lean in the face, probably from that family, if you have a long torso but short legs, you are from yet another family. Then the eyes are interesting because some have blue or green or brown and look like their so and so cousins.

In our family, from my husband's side and mine, we come from many nations. Then you throw in the daughter-in-laws (we have four sons, no daughters) and you find representatives from the Philippines, Shites in Ohio, and the founders of San Diego, California. While some people seem to only have family lines from a few countries, ours are many. One advantage to that comes every four years when it is time for the World Soccer Cup. We can almost always find some team to cheer for into the finals, even if that part of the family tree is very small.

Discrimination is an evil. It comes in many forms. Some people still practice the "I am better than you are because....." I find that dull and dreary. I would rather take each new culture and find the best parts and add it to our family's beliefs. The bad, we just throw away.

September is coming...

We are almost to September and I am looking forward to the discussions we can have about Mexican Independence from Spain in 1810. Many years ago, when I was researching my husband's side on the GARCIA family, I told someone that Ramon was related to the GALLAGAS. That person did not believe me. He suggested a few other names instead. Nope, it was GALLAGA.

Yes, my husband is related to Padre Miguel Hidalgo, from whom we get the grito and repeat it on September 16th and yes, he is also related to some of the others in New Spain/ Mexico who were against the fight for independence.

Miguel Gregorio Antonio Ygnacio HIDALGO
Bap. 8 May 1753
Correlejo, Guanajuato, Mexico

Son of Cristobal HIDALGO y Costilla and
Anna Maria GALLAGA Mandarte born in Michoacan

Grandson of Juan de San Pedro GALLAGA born 4 Feb 1703
La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico and
Joaquina de VILLASENOR y LOMELIN CORTES ENRIQUES de SILVA

Greatgrandson of Fernando GALLAGA MANDARTE Y LOMELIN
born about 1670 in Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco, Mexico
and Maria NAVARRO de SAMORA y SOLIS
born 27 Mar 1671 in La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico.

The Godinez connection is with Fernando GALLAGA MANDARTE Y LOMELIN
and the second wife,
Francisca Xabiera SANCHES Cabrales
born about 1695
and their son, Geronimo Nasario GALLAGA
born 3 Feb 1724 in Santa Clara, Ocotlan, Jalisco and
married to Anna Mariana ROMERO on 2 Jan 1749.

Please note--Geronimo Nasario GALLAGA was also the great, great, grandson of Carlo LOMELINI of Genoa, Liguria, Italy and Maria BENAVIDES of Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
Patricia Diane GODINEZ
San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sun, 8/31/08, Corrine Ardoin wrote:

One of the goals in doing genealogy for me is to instill pride and responsibility in the coming years in generations yet to come. As my grandmother told me, "you don't know who you are if you don't know where you come from." She said this at a family reunion where the new generations no longer speak Spanish and had brought many other nationalities into our lines. She cried as she said there would not be a Mexican in the family in 50 years. My research honors her and makes sure we know our roots and sometimes humble and sometimes proud beginnings. My goal is never to loose any part of my heritage even though we sometimes seem to focus on the Spanish lines.

Daniel and I are both aware that original first and last names were taken from Indigenous and black slave lines and they were given other surnames either by the church or in honor of people they respected or worked for or who owned them or even chance. Daniel and I share the Mendez line since our Mendez gr-grandparents were siblings. We also share black slave lines and Indian lines, we just can't find thier ancestors since they lost their names to "progress." Daniel and I are both very proud of all the ancestors who got us here but to be honest it's easier to trace the Spaniards so they sometimes appear to be our only focus. I wish I had been 14 years old like Daniel (who is our youngest member) when I started researching instead of having to wait until I retired to have the time and money to pursue this passion. With Nuestros Ranchos we get to share, feel pride and share the responsibility of finding correct and truthful information even when the truth makes us uncomfortable or surprises us.

I hope we never loose or focus or common goal.

Linda in B.C.

--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Daniel Mendez wrote:

From: Daniel Mendez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 9:12 AM

I am sure Lomelini is from ITaly, about the indígenas being Lomelini, I
believe it might be since
it was custom for slaves to take on their "master's" surname, it
is possible a mulatto line. Mine aare usually registered as Español, eventhough
their italian, in México all white people would be
considered spanish eventhough their actually portuguese or italian, french,
etc. -Daniel

Saturday, August 30, 2008

Dear Researchers--

One of my favorite books is called History of Mexico by Inigo Fernandez, translated by David Castledine. The first edition was published in 2002 and my fifth reprint was done in 2006. In Chapter 2, The Conquest of Mexico and the Viceroyalty (1519-1808), pg 41-42, it states the following:

"At the very top of New Spain's society were the Spaniards who, because of having carried out the Conquest or being descendents of them, had taken possession of the these lands. In time, two types of Spaniards were differentiated: those from Europe (peninsulares) and those born in Mexico (criollos). The strange thing was that although the law laid down that both were Spaniards, in practice the peninsulares discriminated against the criollos.

"Many of the European-born Spaniards who arrived in the country during the colonial era came with the viceroys: poor professionals wanting to make headway, opportunists who were looking to make quick fortunes and soldiers. Most of them shared the ambition to become rich, some by legal means, others illicitly. Obviously, the peninsulares held the best administrative and religious posts, and were held in high esteem by criollos, who dreamed of their daughters marrying into their families to gain prestige and improve their social status. Most peninsular Spaniards lived in the large cities of New Spain.

" The criollos felt proud of being Spanish, even though the Crown allowed them to occupy only minor administrative and religious posts. This situation, irksome to the criollos, came to be so ridiculous that even a "scientific" justification was sought which held that those born in New Spain were inferior because the prevailing climate made them weak of character and there was no solution to this degenerative process.

"Criollos wanted the Crown to allow them to rise to pending posts and very few thought about independence since most of them just wanted to see a change within the viceroyalty. Criollo reaction centered rather on a strong current pride in having been born in America, which has been named criollismo.

"For many, the great frustration of New Spain's criollos lay in the fact that they were just as Spanish as the peninsulares, had greater economic power than the Europeans, but were not admitted into political power. In short, they shared culture, traditions and a sense of belonging with the peninsulares, but were treated as second-class Spaniards."

I have found that the more I study the history of Mexico, the picture I have/had is not always the same or true according to the people of that time and place. It really is important to read widely on the subject and ask the experts.

Sincerely,
Diane G.

--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Daniel Mendez wrote:

> From: Daniel Mendez
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 9:12 AM
> I am sure Lomelini is from ITaly, about the indígenas being
> Lomelini, I believe it might be since
> it was custom for slaves to take on their
> "master's" surname, it is possible a mulatto
> line. Mine aare usually registered as Español, eventhough
> their italian, in México all white people would be
> considered spanish eventhough their actually portuguese or
> italian, french, etc. -Daniel
> _________________________________________________________________
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Hola Every one ,Is Juan de Padilla (married to Petrona de Siordia ) son of one of the Padilla Davilas? I believe some one had mentioned it or I read it some where ,can't remember.
Ronnie
_________________________________________________________________
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