Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi Letty - are any of your Robles family members connected with Tlaltenango,
Zacatecas?

Esperanza

Ceniceros is a name in our family that is virtually interchangeable with Lucifer himself. El diablo.

My mother turned 88 last week, on July 10. She's bedridden. She's always had flat feet, and has diabetic neuropathy, so her tiny feet can't support her weight anymore. And she has alzheimer's, so her memory is very weak.

But when she hears that name her green eyes still glow red with fire.

Ceniceros was the man who killed her father, my grandfather in 1923 in Jimenez, Chihuahua.
He was the principal of the school in Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua at the time.

And a member of the brand new PRI Party. Perhaps, the first PRI candidate to be assasinated.

Grandpa Nicolas found Pancho VIlla's buried treasure, so the story goes. And Ceniceros killed him for it.

I don't have all the facts right. But family tradition says Ceniceros was released following a general amnesty that freed all prisoners following the revolution.

Naturally, the revolutionary period in Chihuahua is of interest to my family. I've tried to find sources without much luck.

I cannot corroborate whether General Trinidad Rodriguez was actually my mother's uncle as she has always told me. She took me to his mounted statue when she showed me Chihuahua as a boy, and told me that was her uncle.

As I've mentioned before, there are TWO Generals Trindidad Rodriguez in this period, and area.
General Trinidad Rodriguez Quintanilla is defnitely NOT my relation. The other Trini Rodriguez is the one we believe is part of our familia. But I can find no direct evidence:(

I would like to piece the puzzle together for my madrecita querida before she dies. Tie the Rodriguez family together at last.

Mama lost her father when she was only five years old. Yet she remembers him as if she saw him yesterday. Nothing has been able to erase that memory from her mind, or that love in her heart.

I recently heard from a cousin that family friends came to my uncle Guerro about forty years ago. My mother's older brother by 11 months. They told him Ceniceros was in town, there in Chihuahua, Chihuahua. They gave my uncle a loaded gun and told him they would go with him to kill him.

But my uncle uncharacteristically said his first responsibility now was his own children, not avenging his father.

I have Bergara's in my line from around 1754 to 1789....(Maria Olaya Bergara born in 1789 to Salvador Bergara and Maria Salvadora Godoy)....

Thanks...

For the past 20 years my hobby has been making and designing jewelry in all phases. Recently checking a few web sites such as www.heraldaria.com and www.myhistories.com/searchpage.htm I have been able to locate the coat of arms for many of my friends and my own last name and have personally created rings, pendants, tie tack and cuff links all with the family crest.

If ever have inquired in magazines or jewelry stores, their prices are out of this world. Because I have many connections in the jewelry making and sales I can save you plenty of money if you're interested in such jewelry.

The initial carving is not cheap because it requires the art work to be scanned and the duplicated with the use of a computer that actually carves the wax mold.
The price for such a job cost $20 per hour (and that is my wholesale price) each product varies in time but the finished product is well worth it. After the initial wax carving is made then is casted in gold any karat that you desire, or silver. If you want several rings made a rubber mold (vulcanization) is created for about $35 and then you can cast as many rings as you would like and cut the cost.

I can recycle your gold or you can pay for the gold at current world price. Since you may not trust me with you money or gold maybe I can show some of my work at the get together in Salk Lake city. Francisco

---------------------------------
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If your Ana de Haro died in 1716 she cannot be the same Ana de Haro that I have nor can she be the daughter of Juan de Miramonte since he was born circa 1550 and all of his children appeared marrie by 1629 so your Ana de Haro would have to have been over 100 years old when she died to be Juan de Miramonte's daughter. She is probably a granddaughter or great-granddaughter of Juan de Miramonte and Maria de Haro y Saucedo, not their daughter.

=====================
From: George Luna
Date: 2006/07/17 Mon PM 01:20:50 CDT
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Haro Ancestors

Hi Arturo,
This is very interesting but confusing. I have the death document (1716,
Jerez) for Ana de Aro which has her married to Diego de la Torre. What
are the dates on your records and are these really two Ana de Aros?
George

arturoramos wrote:
> I have recently found a document in Archivos Espanoles en Red for Nicolas de Haro, who was son of Hernando de Haro and grandson of Juan de Miramonte and Maria de Haro y Saucedo. He states that his great-grandparents were Francisco Bobadilla and Maria Saucedo, which matches this claim:
>
> The parents of Anna Francisca de Haro were Juan de Miramontes and Maria Rodriguez de Haro Y Saucedo. Juan's parents are Francisco de Miramontes and Maria de Rivera. Maria Rodriguez's parents are Francisco de Bobadilla and Maria O Haro de Saucedo de Llavo.
>
> I do not have Ana Francisca de Haro down as a child of Juan de Miramonte and Maria de Haro y Saucedo, but I do have her down married to a Juan Ortiz de San Pedro, who was the brother of Cecilia Lopez (the second wife of Hernando de Haro and stepmother of Nicolas de Haro)... two pairs of siblings married to each other. It makes sense, particularly since I believe that the Ortiz de San Pedro and Haro Miramontes were the only Spanish families in Tlaltenango in the early 1600s.

Hello Esther, Any help locating inforamtion on Onates or Santelices from Aguascalientes or Zacatecas would be appreciated. Thanks, ABB

Linda,

I saw this in your gedcom. Please do tell me that we are cousins and
that this person is in your direct line of decendancy? Are you, could
you shall we start celebrating that we as long lost cousins have found
each other? Matias Banuelos and Estefana Sanchez were my (5)
ggggg-grandparents.

Prima???

joseph

=================

Leonarda (Maria Ysidra) BANUELOS
1799 - 1879

Home Search Print Logout

* Individual
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Personal Information | Notes | Sources | All

*
Birth May 1799 Tepetongo Zacatecas Mexico
Sex Female
Died 19 Feb 1879 Los Cuevas Zacatecas Mexico
Buried 20 Feb 1879 District Of Jerez Zacatecas Mexico [1]
Person ID I11780 Linda Castanon-Long
Last Modified 29 Feb 2004

Father Matias (Jose) BANUELOS, b. Abt 1770, Tepetongo
Zacatecas Mexico
Mother Estefana (Maria) SANCHEZ, b. Abt 1775, Tepetongo
Zacatecas Mexico
Family ID F0746 Group Sheet

Family Pedro CASTANON, b. Abt 1795, District Of Jerez
Zacatecas Mexico
Children
1. Perfecta (Maria) CASTANON, b. Abt 1832, El Durazno, Jerez
Zacatecas Mexico
2. Dominga CASTANON, b. Abt 1833, El Durazno Zacatecas Mexico
3. Ygnacia (Maria) CASTANON, b. 1834, El Durazno Zacatecas Mexico
4. Sotera CASTANON, b. Abt 1835, El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas
Mexico
5. Jose De Jesus CASTANON, b. Abt 1838, District Of Jerez
Zacatecas Mexico
Family ID F0600 Group Sheet

*
Notes
o

Christening: 19 MAY 1799 Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
MARIA YSIDRA LEONARDA BANUELOS SANCHES
Female
Father: JOSE MATIAS BANUELOS Family
Mother: MARIA ESTEFANA SANCHES
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.:
Type:
C600832 1797 - 1817 0445157 Film NONE

=================

sorry, i'm so new to this, but i was wondering how and where i can order films? i'm a little confused, sorry... any tips on how to start my research? thank you!

I thought some of you California members might be interested in this
meeting.
Linda

Begin forwarded message:

> 4. Notice of DNA Meeting July 29, 2006 at SCGS Library in Burbank,CA
> Posted by: "Doug Miller" djmill@earthlink.net dnadoug
> Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:47 pm (PDT)
>
> July 29, 2006, 10am - 2pm
> Southern California Genealogical Society
> 417 Irving Dr., Burbank, CA 91504
> 818-843-7247
>
> Guest speaker: Colleen Fitzpatrick, Ph.D., (who WOWed everyone at
> Jamboree!) will discuss
> how you can use DNA to go beyond the "Are you my cousin?" stage of
> genetic genealogy to
> learn more about the geographical and historical context of your
> family. She will discuss
> the basics of cladograms, and show how they can be used as a
> convenient tool for
> interpreting your group's DNA results. She will draw on her six
> years experience as the
> group administrator of the Fitzpatrick DNA study to demonstrate
> general features of
> cladograms and how they indicate the history and development of a
> surname. The talk will
> be geared to all levels of interest. She is the author of Forensic
> Genealogy and co-author
> with Andrew Yeiser of DNA & Genealogy. The morning session will be
> the speaker; the
> afternoon session will have split groups for newcomers and
> experienced participants. Lunch
> options: bring your own or order pizza as a group. For more
> information contact Alice
> Fairhurst (626) 331-4791 or afairhurst@earthlink.net
>
> Alice M. Fairhurst
>
>

It appears that Enrique Legaspi Frias and Florentino (Tino) Corbera share common ancestry, via Diego Delgadillo married to Petrona de Isla. This is the same line that linked with Maria Cortes, another NuestrosRanchos member. Tino's line continues from Diego and Petrona via their daughter Mariana Delgadilo bapt. 23 March 1655, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico, and married to Francisco Flores de Medrano.
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA.

I'm afraid there is no match.... my direct ancestor comes through their daughter Leonarda, who's daughter, Perfecta Castanon who married Severiano Perez who's parent's Victoriano Perez and Felipa Zamora are my direct ancestors. I've tried to find Perfecta's father Pedro Castanon connection to my line of Castanon's but haven't so far... so our kinship makes us kissing cousins I'm afraid..

Linda in b.c.

ps.. I'm having to cut and paste all my (b) and (n) since I spilled a cup of coffee on my keyboard.. live and learn

I have become very frustrated lately, I have spent hours and hours online
searching various web sites in search of some sort of links to my family. with
no luck. about the microfilms can anyone tell me, do you order them through
the mail or do you or can you look at them online I am not sure how to do this?
I have also been trying to ask family members about my great grand parents
again with no luck. is it common that Hispanic people didn't care about such
records or is it because of some other reason. it seems important to me to
pass your heritage down to your children but it is difficult when you cant find
it to pass down. jovana

I want to share some of the letter from Gary Felix at our findings of Haplogroup-N for my Gutierrez ancestor.. Ernie, you're looking for genetic proof of lineage so I thought this was a interesting fact Gary Felix shared, the fact that Moctezuma's lineage shares Haplogroup N3, a offshoot of Haplogroup-N.. just food for thought...

Erlinda Castanon-Long
wrote:
Hi Gary, thank you for the explanation, I was totally confused and still am to a point.. Are you saying that it's more likely that our Gutierrez line in Mexico is Native American Haplogroup N? I haven't seen any other Mexican Natives with that Haplogroup and that's whats confusing me.
thanks for your patience, Linda Castanon-Long

From: Gary Felix
To: Erlinda Castanon-Long
Subject: Re: Gutierrez Haplogroup N
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:55:42 -0700 (PDT)

Hi LInda,

yes it is more likely that your family line is Native American than Chinese and you are right there is no proof yet of Haplogroup N in Native Americans. The proof would come in finding N in pre columbian bones. The fact that your results match native siberians (Native Americans came from Siberia at least 15K years ago) means your haplotype (in this case your 12 markers) is likely one of the originals or founder haplotypes.

The interesting thing is that N3 is found only in a Seville sample in Spain. Seville was the gateway to the new world and Native Americans were brought to Spain early on. The grandson of Moctezuma married a Spanish woman. These lines are part of the house of Moctezuma.
http://book-smith.tripod.com/montezuma.html

The fact that your numbers come close to eastern european leaves this as a possibility.
There are people that would be eager to help determine if this is a Native American sample.

Email me anytime.
Gary

My family is very large, my father is the youngest of 11 siblings. his father was born in zacatecas mexico, his name was benjamin. he had a brother named ramerio. I am researching our family but no one seems to know what my grandfathers, fathers name was. I have heard that he was very tall light skined and very strict. it is exciting to find out new information on my heritage. about the people and the many stories I have read. I am very happy to be a member of this group. I have been stuck for a while now on my research, and this gives me a new hope of learning more about my family history.

As I understand the article we are all the children of Moctezuma in the broadest possible interpretation of the term because he has living descendants. Because he is a link in the human chain.

He was descendent from the sole human survivor, as well. It is not necessarily a direct linear descent, but an interconnected relatedness in which every living person on earth shares DNA with each other, and with persons such as Moctezuma, Cortez, the Hapsburgs...

The article went on to describe Brooke Shileds royal descent as an example. As if we really care about her personal lineage!

The author might have had a political agenda. He said every Arab has Jewish relatives, and vice versa. Words close to that, I don't have the article anymore. The analogy could equally be applied to conquistadores, and conquered.

I agree with you about the exceptions regarding the aboriginal people of Austraila, and others. I believe the entire premise is flawed. Yet it is presented as a mathematical certainty without addressing major issues.

It is hard to find. I located a library in Texas with a copy. but they were not willing to let it out of their state on an inter library loan.

But they were kind enough to copy the ten pages of chapter 58, capitulo 58.
The descent of Petronila Moctezuma and Martin Navarro down through both of their daughters.

The chapter corroborates Petronila's descent from the emperor of the Aztecs. Something I've been looking for for years.

I also have Petronila's marriage record as compiled by Jaime Holcombe. Further proof of her imperial descent.

I would be gald to email my scans to you so everyone can view this valuable material.

And, in hopes that others will contribute what they have and know about Petronila Moctezuma.
My cause celebre!

I discovered the El Paso library was set to open this July, but
it's mid-July and nothing yet. Can't seem to contact anyone
either. Will keep you informed.

Connie

Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX, USA

Never heard of them. Who are they?

My Alderete ancestry is very iffy. My paternal lineage that I uploaded traces back through my gggrandmother Silvestra Romo in Coahuila back to Aguascalientes. Through my father's maternal side.

But my father never knew his dad. I'm trying to verify that line. My father was Ernie Alderete Senior. He told me his dad was Kiko Alderete, a judge in Ysleta Texas.

I found that Kiko recently. And his lineage takes us back to Martin Alderete who was born in Ysleta in 1818, his son Benigno Alderete who was born in the same place around 1847, his son Kiko who was born around the end of the century in Ysleta. And my dad born in Ysleta in 1923.

I recently found who I believe is my father's younger sister. A wonrderdul, loving women who accepted me as her nephew without hesitation, or question. But of course her DNA can't be tested to prove the connection:(

A work in progress. Hopefully, the library in El Paso will reopen sometime this year and I might find some anwers there.

I am researching in Sonora and searching for the elusive TISNADO who
migrated to Sonora from someplace in the seventeenth century.

These websites have been most useful to me and my be of use to someone
who finds themselves reserarching in Northwestern Mexico.

http://www.colson.edu.mx/testamentos/proyecto.html
http://www.nps.gov/tuma/M2000.html
http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/oer/index.shtml

George

Hi Rose,

I am researching in Sonora and searching for the elusive TISNADO who
migrated to Sonora from someplace in the seventeenth century.

Try these websites:
http://www.colson.edu.mx/testamentos/proyecto.html
http://www.nps.gov/tuma/M2000.html
http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/oer/index.shtml

Be creative with the spelling of Durazzo. I found some possibilies.

Best,
George

os Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> <3562acd40607151348g6ac2d57fv96bab07bc59c4717@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Rose,
>
> I too descend from Carlos Lomellini through two of Juana Lomelin's
> daughters. I also descend from Magdalena de Lavezares and have the same
> interest you do in learning about Italians in Mexico. I have found
> references to these lines in Mariano Gonzalez-Leal's book "Reto?os de
> Espa?a
> en la Nueva Galicia" Tomo II. There are also chapters In Jose Luis
> Vazquez's book on Genealogia de Nochistlan that trace the Lomellini's and
> the Lavezares descendancy.
>
> I would be happy to exchange data with you. Please e-mail me directly.
>
> Maria Cortez
>
>
> Message: 14
>> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Alicia Carrillo
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Message-ID: <20060715170039.42643.qmail@web81614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Rose,
>>
>> Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book,
>> Los Duran de Nochistlan.
>>
>> " Tambien hubo en Nochistl?n, sangre Genovesa, como la de los
>> Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atr?s hemos hablado-y
>> la
>> de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien
>> en
>> la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, espa?ol de los
>> Reinos
>> de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de G?nova, y fue
>> estanciero pr?spero en Mexticac?n. Establecido alli por 1624, cas? con
>> do?a
>> Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese
>> apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco v?stagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana,
>> Domingo y Maria.
>>
>> Juana cas? en Nochistl?n el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de
>> Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pas? a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense
>> Don
>> Francisco Guti?rrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capit?n Francisco Guti?rrez
>> Rubio y de Do?a Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los
>> linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de
>> Nochistlan.
>>
>> Domingo uni? su vida a la de do?a Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija
>> de
>> Manuel G?mez y de do?a Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos
>> hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendi?
>> generosamente el apellido en la regi?n.
>>
>> Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides cas? con el criollo de la ciudad de
>> Mejico, Don Nicolas P?rez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio,
>> Juana,
>> que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, cas?, casi ni?a,
>> con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de do?a
>> Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alte?o de los Gallagas, rama
>> materna
>> del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y
>> Gallaga-Mandarte.
>>
>> End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but
>> since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract
>> specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
>>
>> Alicia
>> San Jose, Ca
>>
>> Rose Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding
>> Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early
>> 1800's?
>> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
>> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian
>> ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big
>> zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al
>> Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing
>> in
>> there as well.
>>
>> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600,
>> children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around
>> Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early
>> 1800's.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rose
>> Fresno, CA

Dear Joseph, I don't know if you recall that I had requested to be removed
from the email list. I have limited access to a computer because of where
I live (in the boonies) so when I can check msgs, the mailbox is loaded.
It is too much for me to deal with at this time. Later, when my situation
changes, I'll recontact you. Thank you and I look forward to reconnecting
with this group later.

Margot Shackelford

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Joseph Puentes makas@nc.rr.com
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 15:00:57 -0500
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Send In Your Introductions: was-Novice's
1stattempt

thanks Mike for your words and encouragement. There is a lot of
information available for those that seek. . .my meaning is that if you
just joined the list you should consider sending in your Introduction.
Send in your questions and comments, in other words get involved. There
have been many new people join the group in the last few weeks but only
a small percent of you have sent in your introductions. You will only
get something out of this group if you put something into it. We as a
group are here to help you get started. Once you have a "start" you need
to take the bull by the horns and work your own research. In time you
can join the group that shares what they have learned to help others get
their start. We should constantly be nurturing new people to later help
nuture the next wave of new members.

and Mike that excitement you have is what many of us still have when we
discover a new relative. I describe it as my heart doing a back flip!

great going and hope you make many other discoveries!

joseph

Mike Bernard Lopez wrote:

>Dear list,
> Ok, this is way toooo freaky! I posted 4 the 1st time last week with the
encouragement of Alicia Carillo. My Post was in reference to my mother,
Maria de Jesus Bravo & Gparents Ladislao Bravo & Maria Tinoco from La
Ribera Jalisco. Separately & without mention in my post, I have also been
searching (about 2 years) 4 info on my paternal gparents, Bernardino Lopez
& Donaciana Gutierres from Guanajuato. Last evening I received an email
from Erlinda (Linda in BC) providing me listings for them! Yes, that's
excitement you detect in my e-voice! I just wanted to publicly thank
Nuestros Ranchos, Alicia and of course, Linda in BC!
>
> Michael
>
>

Perhps, if you transcribe the Inquisiton document in Spanish here, someone could translate it to English.

Regarding Italians in Mexico, I live in Monterey Park. My city, as well as the adjoining cities of San Gabriel, Rosemead, Commerce, East Los Angeles.... were all granted by the King of Spain to an Italian gentleman.

There's a few streets named after him, El Repetto being the major one. I think his name was Alessandro Repetto.

Monterey Park was orignally called Ramona Acres, named after the mythical Mexican maiden.

I believe there's an annual pageant dedicated to her, but not in this immediate area.

My city was envisioned as the new Santa Barbara. All buildings were to be built in the Spanish style, with red clay tile roofs.

But a Chinese majority moved in, and completely reversed all the ordinances.
The English-only initiative in California began in my city as a reaction to signage only in Chinese.

I recieved an e-mail from Gary Felix about my Y-DNA findings of Haplogroup N for my Gutierrez line. I was not correct on the information on the Haplogroup N report for my Gutierrez line. 80% of Chinese are Haplogroup O, a offshoot of Haplogroup N so the odds of our line being Chinese are very slim.. Gary said that the odds are my Gutierrez line are Native American originally from Siberia and Russia by way of China.. They would have immigrated abt 15,000 years ago so any trace's of the Asian features would not really apply to us.. So, I guess we got our slanted eyes from our Indio ancestor's after all... (I kinda liked being Chinese)... oh well, back to the drawing board..

Sorry for the confusion and it has been fun!
Linda in B.C.

---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Has anyone heard or seen this book? Has anyone used such publications for genealogical research?

Author: Otte, Enrique
Title: Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias, 1540-1616

Linda and I have uploaded her genealogy into the searchable GEDCOM database. Her information is also available in her Members' Genealogy folder.

You can view her information by clicking on "GEDCOM" from the main menu and then selecting "Surnames" for a surname listing and selecting her tree "Romero, Linda Ancestors" from the pull down menu labeled "Tree".