Nuestros Ranchos Site

Do any of you in El Paso know if Chief Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas is still alive?

I am told he has another name, this might be his Hispanic name.

I am told he is the only living person who can verify my father's heritage.

I'm told he has avoided all Alderetes for years because he feels responsible for the death of his best friend, my grandfather. He might think we want to kill him, but nothing is further from the truth. No one holds him responsible, the death was due to natural causes.

Marta Estrada at the El Paso Historical Society has tried to help me, but she says all her documents and files are in storage. By the time the library is open again, he may be dead, if he isn't already.

I believe there are pictures available of my ggrandfather, Benigno Alderete, perhaps at the Candelaria House, or in the library files. He was a major personage in his times.

Arturo,

About those batch numbers starting with "I":

Back in February, I printed out an entry in the IGI after searching for my grandfather's sister Angela Olague in Jerez and Tepetongo.

At the time, the IGI listed an Angela Olague born in Jerez around the time my great-aunt was born, but the parents listed for her were not the same as my grandfather's. I printed out the entry and filed it, thinking that when they got around to listing the film number, etc, I would send for it. The entry listed as Source Information only a batch number (I043209) and no Dates, or Source Call Number or Type or Sheet.

Now that I went back to check the IGI, that entry is no longer listed. It is just gone, disappeared, yet I have the hard copy of the entry that I printed out. I tried finding that Angela Olague again using the parents that had been listed for her (Agustin Olague and Ponciana Aguilar), and I also tried finding her by entering the baptismal date that had been listed in the IGI (11 MAY 1892). My great aunt Angela Olague was born (according to another source), on August 2, 1893, and her parents supposedly were Pedro Olague and Rafaela Tinagero the same as for her brother Francisco Olague (I found him in the Tepetongo film for September 1872 with his parents listed as Pedro Olague and Rafaela Felix. (The Tinajeros oftened used the surname Felix). I can't find Angela anywhere and now not even the IGI lists any Angela Olague.

What are these Batch numbers that start with an "I", and why would that listing disappear from the IGI altogether?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

Below is an excerpt I took from the latest newsletter from Pat
Gooldy, who runs Ye Old Genealogy Shoppe.  She is located in Indiana and
has few books on Mexico, but I love reading her newsletters because she always
has such good advice.  In the excerpt below, she is talking about
researching her own and her husband's relatives in some of the Eastern
states.  As we find in Mexico, she found that many people in
a community had the same names due to the habit of naming sons after fathers,
uncles, etc. Also, she found that men often married women with the same first
name, as we have found in Mexico.  Do we really have the right Jose x,
married to our Maria x, of approximately the same ages, who were from our
locality and not another couple also from there or who moved there? Often after
tedious transcribing and comparisons, I find that I was following the wrong
thread.

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard, WA
----

*****************************************************************************

In genealogy
contemporary sources arent yours. They are the sources of your ancestors
available contemporaneously to him.

This is where you
look for the pieces that tell you who he was not just that he
was. Therein lay the stories of these men
or women you call kin. Thank heavens for
the modern resources and the databases that bring an ever clearer picture to you
of your ancestors and therefore, of yourself.

 However, a word of caution! Not every John Smith in the records of Maine
is YOUR John Smith. You are weaving a
tapestry of a mans life. Make sure all
your threads belong to the one that is your ancestor. Most towns, even back then, had more than one
man with the same name. I once helped a
lady research a county in Indiana that had four Percifield relatives,
all brothers, who lived at Four Corners, so
named because it was the place where the sections of land that the boys had
purchased met. Each one of the four boys
had at least four sons and all of them gave to the boys the names of himself and
his three brothers. Cant you imagine what
it was like when a lady stepped to the door of her cabin and yelled, Gilbert
Percifield, you get over to this cabin right now! Most of the time she got at least four, and
sometimes all five, of them at her doorstep in minutes. [Would be kind of nice, wouldnt it? Today you count the cars in the driveway
before you yell for anyone! And even then
you are lucky if anyone answers, never mind comes a-running!]

 The Percifield marriages proved to be
daunting. Their county has had some
record destruction so the marriages are thought not to be complete. Even at that all the first generation married
and most of the second generation married.
There were plenty of Gilbert Percifield marriage records in the
courthouse records. The only trouble was
six of them married ladies named Elizabeth!
Think that was not a can of worms?
Straightening out that mess was a big job. But how could we trace the brides family if we
did not know which Elizabeth was ours? Turns out, we think he was one of the Gilbert
Percifields that had been married in another county before they moved
there. Finally found that record, but a
lingering doubt will always be there as to whether we really did get the right
Elizabeth!

Ernie and Pat,

Here are 7 additional excerpts from Jose Luis' book, regarding Juana Delgadillos. I guess it shows you must be very cautious and vigilant when claiming ancestry to a certain individual's name because as we can see there appear to be several Juana Delgadillos.

Buena suerte,
Alicia
San Jose, Ca

Capitulo 13, Pagina 40
Juana Flores de Medrano. El 14 de Febrero de 1695 en Nochistlan, caso Juana Flores de Medrano hija de Francisco Flores de Medrano y Maria de Sandoval; con Nicolas Ximenes, vecino de esta feligresia, residente en el pueblo de San Diego, hijo de Diego Ximenez y Catharina de Arellano (Capitulo 74), siendo padrinos Lorenzo Alvarez y Juana Delgadillo.

Capitulo 13, Pagina 41
9) Magdalena de Enriquez. El 26 de febrero 1702 en Nochistlan casaron Magdalena de Enriquez y Joseph Alvarez Tostado hijo del Captitan Francisco Alvarez Tostado (hijo de Lorenzo (Nicolas segun la dispensa) Alvarez Tostado) y de Maria Ana Ramirez de Hermosillo (hija de Jose Ramirez de Mendoza y Ana Muñoz de Hermosillo). Refierase a la dispensa Matrimonial de Antonio Ximenez y Juana Josepha Delgadillo.

Capitulo 13, Pagina 44
Juana Delgadillo quien caso con Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado vecino de Teocaltiche hijo de Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado y Maria de Nava y Cuevas teniendo su descendencia en Teocaltiche. La consanguinidad en 3ro con 4to grado expuesta en la dispensa matrimonial presentada el 27 de Enero de 1749 en Nochistlan por Bartolome Alvarez Tostado hijo de Joseph Alvarez Tostado y Magdalena Enriquez, difunta: para casar con Juana Gertrudis Delgadillo, hija de Diego Delgadillo Alarcon y Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo, difunta. identifica como tronco a Juan Delgadillo y Maria de la Concepcion Islas donde Diego Delgadillo padre de Ysabel Delgadillo abuela del pretenso y Juan Delgadillo abuelo de la pretensa son hermanos. Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, Expedientes de la Serie de Matrimonios - Extractos de los Siglos XVII y XVIII. Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton, Microfilm 168007. De este matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes seis vastagos:

Capitulo 13, Pagina 45
a) Juana Delgadillo. El 14 de Marzo de 1662 en Nochistlan fue bautizada Juana hija de Juan Delgadillo y de Elvira Martines.

Capitulo 15, Pagina 51
e) Dionisio Rodriguez de Frias, El 5 de Enero de 1716 en Nochistlan se presento la informacion matrimonial de Dionisio Rodriguez de Frias Pedroso hijo de Pedro Rodriguez y Petrona de Yslas: para casar con Juana Delgadillo, hija de Francisco Xavier Delgadillo y Juana Gutierres (o Gonzalez de Hermosillo) ya difunta, donde se presento un 3er con 3er grado de consanguinidad. ya que la pretensa es nieta de Juan de Ysla hermano de Josepha de Yslas, abuela del pretenso. Es hasta ahora un enigma el origen del apellido Pedroso.

Capitulo 17, Pagina 62
d) Agustin de Quesada. El 23 de Marzo de 1672 en Nochistlan, murio Agustin niño de hedad de dos años, hijo de Nicolas Quesada y Juana Delgadillo

Capitulo 63, Pagina 202
5) b) Maria Perez Infante. El 27 de Agosto de 1653 en Santa Maria de los Lagos fue bautizada Maria hija de Alonso Perez Infante y Thomasa de Sepulveda, siendo padrinos Don Alonso de Castro y Doña Maria de Altamirano su muger. Maria Perez Infante caso con Luis de Benavides hijo de Juana Delgadillo y Diego de Benavides, Capitulo 57.

I do not have the Vazquez y Frias publication, but I do have the
"capitulo,"listing. There's a reference to Capitulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de
Benavides y Juana Delgadillo. It may help to establish if this Juana
Delgadillo was the daughter of Diego and Petronilla. Reference to
individuals with the Delgadillo surname can be found in the following

Ernie and Pat,

Here is what I found on Juana Delgadillo in Capitulo 56, The first paragraph, I would scan it but my scanner isn't working now.

Capitulo 56, Se desconoce la ascendencia de Juana Delgadillo. Parece ser que Diego de Benavides es hijo de Diego de Benavides el natural de los Reinos de Castilla. Notese que uno de sus hijos, luis de Benavides se denomina mestizo. El 28 de Enero de 1679 en Mexticacan murio de enfermedad y vejez normal y de vomitos Juana Delgado de hedad de mas de noventa años, viuda de Diego de Venabides. De este matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes cinco vastagos. Phelipa Benavides, Maria Benavides, Maria de Aceves, Juana Delgado quien caso con Juan Rodriguez de Frias, hijo de Juan Rodriguez de Frias y Jertrudis de Amaya, Capitulo 15. y Luis de Benavides.

Hope this helps,
Alicia

I have uploaded 5 attachments for the "capitulo," listing for the publication "Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiquo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales," by Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias.

This listing can be viewed by clicking on the Files tab from the main page of Ranchos --> click on Books and Articles --> click on Genealogia de Nochistlan Capitulos 1 - 100, --> click on "5 attachments," --> click on the individual attachments ( 1 -5 ) to view the listings.

Pat Silva Corbera

>
> Hola Tomas y bienvenido al grupo!

Yo soy una de las que desciende de Diego Delgadillo. Tambien soy originaria
de Guadalajara donde viví hasta los 10 años de edad. Tres de mis abuelos
eran de Los Altos de Jalisco, y la cuarta, por linea materna, era de San
Luis Soyatlán (area de Chapala).

Tengo mas datos que compartir de Diego Delgadillo. Sus padres fueron Juan
Delgadillo y Maria de la Concepcion de Yslas. Los abuelos de Diego por
linea paterna fueron Juan de Renteria e Ysabel Calderon. De Petrona de
Yslas tengo hasta cinco generaciones atras.

Les acabo de preguntar a los descendientes de esta linea si les gustaria que
nos comunicaramos por e-mail para intercambiar los datos pertinentes de esta
familia. Por lo pronto tengo contados a: ti, Pat Corbera (por medio de su
marido Tino), Olivia, Irma, Maria Elena Gutierrez-Uhlenburg, Enrique
Legaspi, y yo.

Maria Elena Cortez
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:44:54 -0500
From: " Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez "
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego Delgadillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
Message-ID:
<50f333d50607240244n16d0c9d8v14460dbfa91207a4@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hola a Todos:

Saludos desde Guadalajara, soy Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez, naci y
vivo en esta ciudad de Guadalajara, la Perla de Occidente, mis ancestros via
paterna son de la region de los Altos de Jalisco y por via Materna son de
la Rivera o Cienega de Chapala, tengo pocos dias de pertenecer a su grupo
de Nuestros Ranchos., del cual me entere por medio del otro grupo
genealogico al que tambien pertenezco de "Genealogia-Mexico" de la Sociedad
Genealogica del Norte de M?xico.

Esta comunicacion es para comentar sobre nuestros ancestros: Diego
Delgadillo y Petrona o Petronila de Islas de Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

Soy descendiente de Petronila y Diego como sigue:

1a Generacion-Yo: Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez, 2da Genderacion-Mis
Padres: Tom?s Villegas Guti?rrez y Mar?a Elena G?mez Castellanos, 3a.
Generacion-Mis Abuelos: Francisco Villegas Navarro y Mucia Gutierrez Ramirez
- Jose Gomez Gomez y Sara Castellanos Romero, 4ta. Generacion- Mis
Bisabuelos: Gil Gutierrez Flores y Josefa Ramirez Perez, 5ta. Generacion:
Mis Tatarabuelos: Jose Guadalupe Gutierrez y Maria Dolores Flores Torres,
6ta. Generacion: Mis 4tos. Abuelos: Jose Gutierrez Macias y Dolores de Alba
G?mez, 7ma. Generacion: Mis 5tos. Abuelos: Antonio Rafael Gutierrez
Delgadillo y Maria Feliciana de los Dolores Macias Valadez Mart?n del Campo,
8va. Generacion: Mis 6tos. Abuelos: Juan de Dios Gutierrez de Mendoza Galvan
de Rojas y Petronila Delgadillo Ramirez de Mendoza, 9na. Generacion: Mis
7mos. Abuelos: Diego Delgadillo Islas y Fabiana Ram?rez de Mendoza, 10ma.
Generaci?n: mis 8vos. Abuelos: Diego Delgadillo y Petronila de Islas.

En mi base de datos ademas de los 8 hijos que mencionan, yo tengo
registrados ademas los siguientes hijos de Diego y Petronila: a Christobal
nacido Aproximadamente en 1677 y a Juana que se caso con Lorenzo Alvarez
Tostado y Nava aprox. en 1682 en Nochistlan, uno de sus hijos Lucas Alvarez
Tostado Delgadillo fue bautizado el 14-Nov-1685 en Nochistlan Zacatecas, al
parecer sus otros 5 hijos (Que yo tengo registrados) nacieron en
Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Lorenzo murio el 16-Nov-1740.

Algien tiene mas generaciones atras, despues de Diego y Petronila,
es decir: saben quienes fueron los padres, abuelos, bisabuelos de Diego y
Petronila?, me gustaria saber tambien la genealogia de los que escriben al
respecto para saber como se conectan con mis 8vos. Abuelos: Diego
De?lgadillo y Petronila de Islas.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

Arturo,

Thanks for the lookup. Unfortuately there was no hit.

Thanks!
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from arturoramos : --------------

>
> There is someone that appears to be some probable matches to your ARREDONDO
> AGUERO clan... perhaps a son of the Juan de Arredondo you are looking for.
> Arredondo is a town in spain and there are many entries for names like "Concha
> de Arredondo".
>
> T

Okay folks remember now:

if it has to do with our research in our area of research put it on the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list

if it has to do with our Announcements of some sort related somehow to
our area of research put it on the announce@nuestrosranchos.org list

if it has to do with General Topics related to genealogy in our area of
research put it on the general@nuestrosranchos.org list

So all those "Diego Delgadillo" emails that were in the general list
should actually be in the research@nuestrosranchos.org list

if someone happens to notice a thread starting or continuing on the
wrong list why not just change the address to the "right" address that
way you'll be doing your part to get the thread on the right list.

thanks,

joseph

Actually, I am not a descendant of Diego Delgadillo although I wish I were. ;-)

However, I have included auxiliary lines in my database as they connect through marriage, and it appears that almost everybody in Nochistlan is connected through marriage.

I've tried to be careful, but I know that there are mistakes in my work. I am getting better at research and documentation as I go. However, I was looking at the data that I have about Diego Delgadillo and Petronilla Islas and their children, and there are some discrepanices that you may want to clear up.

For example, according to the extracted record in the IGI, Xptoval Delgadillo was married to Fabiana Ramires on 31 JAN 1701 in Nochistlan (IGI Batch # M606256 -- Film # 0226725). However, according to José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías in his book, _Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales_, Diego Delgadillo was married to Fabiana Ramires.

The only records I can find at familysearch.org are patron-submitted sheets which are not primary sources. However, they also say that it was Diego who was married to Fabiana, but no source is indicated.

The film # 0224647 covering the years 1688 -1718 has not been extracted so someone would need to read the microfilm entry by entry to find the children's christening records in order to verify who is the correct couple.

I do not have access to that film nor do I live close to SLC, or I would feel compelled to scroll through it. I'd love to know what the rest of you find out.

Also, I do not know why I included the following child in the family of Diego and Petronilla:

JUANA RODRIGUEZ YSLAS -- IGI Batch # K600711 -- Film # 0226646
Parents: PEDRO RODRIGUEZ -- PETRONILA DE YSLAS
Christening: 27 DEC 1683 Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico

Page 44 -- Note 1o (Capitulo 13): Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías.

As you can see, I referenced it, but did not include an explanation. If it was the same Petronilla who was married to Diego, she would have been at least 44 and probably much older, perhaps even ten years older. 54 is not an impossible age, and she was obviously healthy as is evidenced by the number of children she birthed, but I'm uneasy including this Juana without more information. Does anyone have José Luis' book available who can site his reasoning.

~Deena~

okay so it's been awhile since we transitioned and started on the new
site, but the rules are the rules. I'm starting a long range call for
genealogies (Do you remember when you and I made that agreement for you
to send in your "representative tree" to the group?).

Well January is the deadline. NOTE: if you have already submitted your
genealogy in gedcom form or a report or link to your online work you
have satisfied the agreement so please don't email me asking if you are
okay, you know you are okay.

Come January 31, 2007 I'm going to go through and delete everyone's
membership who has not submitted their genealogies as per our agreement
when you joined the group. So slowly but surely start working on what
you are going to submit. REMEMBER no living relatives and preferably a
"Genealogy Report" in either .rtf or .doc format, but just in an email
is okay as well.

It would be great if you submitted a gedcom, but that is not necessary.
You can simply put your tie to our Research Area in an email and send it
to me or better yet build yourself a folder following the folder
examples found in the "files" --> "members genealogies" area of the
group. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14067

Don't panic January 31, 2007 is over 6 months away. . .

. . .anyway I'm a real cream puff. when the time comes I usually cave in
and give extensions if you communicate that you need an extension. Then
again those folks that don't communicate get the "Ax" without mercy.

Start thinking about it,

joseph

ps: Remember there is help available with the technical side of creating
your folder and uploading to it. All you need to concern yourself with
is your research.

pps: if there is someone in the group that feels comfortable translating
can you contact me if you have time to translate this email. I could do
it but I'm sure I would butcher it pretty good.

>
> Hi Pat,

You must've read my mind! I was just telling Irma earlier today that it
would be nice to create an e-mail distribution list for those of us who
descend from Diego Delgadillo to exchange data. I've counted: You (via
Tino), Irma, Maria Elena (Nena), Enrique, Olivia and me. Is Deena a
descendant also? I wasn't sure. Those of you interested say Aye!

Maria

------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:53:28 -0700
> From: "papagaia2"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego Delgadillo
> To:
> Message-ID: <005501c6ae9a$0e2266d0$cf3fe145@papagaia>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Maria,
>
> This is wonderful, but I'm losing track of all our "primas/primos," that
> share common ancestry from Diego Delgadillo. Would be nice if a separate
> posting/file existed indicating the line of descent for each member that
> links with this ancestor.
> Thank you for the "heads up," about the patron submitted records on
> familysearch.org .
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy CA
>
>

Aveces no mencionan los padres en las actas de matrimonio cuando ha
habido un matrimonio antes. En casos de viudos que se vuelven a casar,
no se mencionan los padres. Por ejemplo, si el novio es viudo y se
vuelve a casar, se hace mencion de su esposa y la fecha en que murio y
hasta donde fue el entierro.
En la acta de matrimonio de unos abuelos mios, los dos eran viudos y
solo mencionan los primeros esposos, las fechas en que murieron, y donde
fueron los entierros. No se mencionan los padres de los novios para
nada.

Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero
Sacramento, California

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ramirez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DE LA C?MARA Y MENOYO,
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

He buscado tanto en el IGI y en las mismas actas de Nochistl?n, pero en
algunas solo me da el dato de los testigos y no el de como se llamaban
sus padres. En el de Santiago Gallegos no se encontraron el acta DEL 04
DE MAYO DE 1735.

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:13:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DE LA C?MARA Y MENOYO ,?=
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <20060722171358.93526.qmail@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Puedes ordenar las informaciones matrimoniales para ese a?o. El numero
es el siguiente para Nochistlan.
Dentro de las informaciones matrimoniales no solo incluye los nombres de
los padres sino de los abuelos y ocho testigos, cuatro para el pretenso
y cuatro para la pretensa.

Informaci?n matrimonial 1734-1738 - FHL INTL Film [ 226759 ]

Buena Suerte,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

----- Original Message ----
From: Ramirez
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:49:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DE LA C?MARA Y MENOYO,

He buscado tanto en el IGI y en las mismas actas de Nochistl?n, pero en
algunas solo me da el dato de los testigos y no el de como se llamaban
sus padres. En el de Santiago Gallegos no se encontraron el acta DEL 04
DE MAYO DE 1735.

Josie,

Is your line in the gedcom files? I would like to see where we tie.

I have 3 lines of Villarreals and 25 lines of Trevinos.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from "Josie T. Trevino" : --------------

> Hi!
>
> I am also related to all those: Trevino, Banuelos, Zaldivar, Velasco,
> Onate, etc, etc. in Zacatecas as well as Sepulveda, Ayala and all the others
> from Nuevo Leon. My father's line (Trevino-Villarreal) originates in Nuevo
> Leon......My "brick wall" is in Zacatecas with the surnames "Liendo" and "De
> la Rosa"........two unusual names~!
>
> I just had foot surgery and will be housebound for a short while so I hope
> to get some genealogy done~!
>
> Ernie, I will see what I can do on those names you sent me, ok?
>
> Josie in San Antonio
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of M. Vallazza
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:01 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
>
> Hi, Esther,
> some of your Zacatecas names are definitely related to mine--Zaldivar,
> Ba

Leticia,

I too have a Rafael Felix that was from the Tepetongo area. He was the brother of my ggg-grandfather Felipe Felix. Rafael was married to Gregoria Salazar who was also an ancestor of mine. Rafael's father Marcelino (married to Juana de Acevedo) used the surname Felix de Tinajero, and some descendants used the Felix or the Tinajero or both or they would alternate between the two every time they had a child baptized. Sometimes they would use their mothers' surnames which has made finding them a challenge. I see in the IGI that a member of the LDS church submitted a record for a Rafael Felix born "about 1766" in Salitrillo, Zacatecas.

My ancestors used the church at Tepetongo for baptisms and weddings, but they really lived at Salitrillo or Marecito. Perhaps this Marcelino Felix (Feliz/Felis) had a father or brother named Rafael also. They tended to name their sons after their fathers or brothers or uncles.

I would be anxious to see your family tree. Could you ask Arturo to upload it to the GEDCOM section? He has already uploaded mine. My other surnames are Olague, Suriano, Munos, Acevedo, Escobedo, Quijas, Salasar, Mata, de Aro, Lucio, Banegas, Alvares, Flores, Montes, Campos, Miranda, Vasques, Valdes, Ramires, de la Torre, Berumen, de Luna, Ortis.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Arturo,

Can you look up Hernando Arredondo Aguero or Juan Arredondo Aguero or Martin Zavala in the passenger lists for about 1630's?

Thank you!

Esther A. Herold
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from arturoramos : --------------

>
> Enter "LOMELIN" in the first search field and then add another search field and
> enter "PASAJERO" These are just the listings for passengers to Mexico. There
> are many more mostly to Cartagena de Indias (Colombia).
>
> C

My name is Ruth Olivar Millan. My name was changed by my parents J.Luciano Olivar and Maria de Jesus Ramirez to "Ruth" after confusion developed in elementary school regarding all The Jose' and Maria's with the Olivar surname. I was born in the San Joaquin Valley Cal. My dad was born in Nebraska and most of my uncles and aunts were born in the Mid west. They were deported from the USA in the 30's to Mexico...Laos Altos where my father met my mother "Chuy la Huera' (from el Rancho de Santa Ysabel, Jalisco). there was an all call during WWII and my dad returned to the US.
On my tree I have Juan Olivar -Cresencia Padilla(Padilla goes back 3 more generations) married 1859 (and all their children) and cousins around San Juan de los Lagos Jalisco. His father was another Juan Jose Olivar (1939) on a boat from Europe to Puebla. Jose Ana Olivar married M. Tomasa Gonzales 1879 then took off to the states to build the railroad with M.Crecencia Gutierrez where they had several children (I have this and much more documented) including early photo.
My mother (Ramirez- Perez-Gonzales) was born on the Rancho de Santa Ysabel, Jalisco .(1920) to M. Ysabel Perez and Pio Ramirez. She was raised by her grandfather Cipriano Perez and his second wife M. ALejandra Gonzales.My mother was an orphan so things are based on rumors and cuentos. When Cipriano/ mama janda died she went to live with Domitila Perez, aunt married to a Reynoso that turns out to be related to my dad on the Padilla side.
I make a life time of "Family Tree" research very short. I have visited villages were people look exactly like me....and are really really are related.
By the way there is a lady way back in my tree that is a Gutierrez and her parents/father were Chon which is Chinese.....Most people got off the boat in.Vera CruzMexico.
I speak several Languages.

Peace, and I'm here to find family
Cuca

I am finishing up a manuscript on the historic ethnography of southern Zacatecas and Northern Jalisco coupled with my father's genealogy. It is written in Spanish and I am looking to self-publish the work so I need someone to do line/stylistic editing. If you or anyone you know might be interested in this work, please let me know. I am willing to pay, though I do not have much of a budget...

Estoy a punto de terminar un manuscrito sobre la etnografia historica del sur de Zacatecas y el norte de Jalisco que tambien trata la genealogia de la familia de mi padre. Esta escrito en castellano y pienso publicarlo yo mismo asi que necesito alguien que pueda editar/redactar por gramatica, ortografia y estilo. Si te interesa este trabajo a ti o a alguien quien tu conoces, por favor dejame saber. Estoy dispuesto pagar por el servicio, aunque no tengo mucho presupuesto.

Has anyone plotted out the various Maria Lopez de Elizaldes?

There must be a dozen of them. It is the single most confusing name in my family tree. Its hard to tell if a second marriage is for the same Maria Lopez de Elizalde, or for her daughter, niece, granddaughter...

A researcher in Aguascalientes sent me the following documents he says he persaonally searched in the Aguascalientes Archives. I recognize names in several trees....

Circa 1633_“El Sagrario” Aguascalientes_Diego Romo de Vivar y María Rangel_Jerónimo Romo de Vivar y Rangel (1648), José Pedro Romo de Vivar y Rangel (1634)__5 de mayo de 1658__Juan Romo de Vivar y María de Tiscareño_Antonio (1664); Domingo ( 1666); Juan (1675) __27 de mayo de 1670__Ignacio y María de Espinoza_Ana ( 1671), Diego ( 1672), José ( 1674)__ Circa 1677__Nicolás y María de Villalobos_Antonio (1668), Antonio (1698), Catalina (1688), Francisca (1689), Salvador, (1694), Cristóbal (1702), Petra (1711), Agustina (1700), Alejo (1704), Brígida Agustina (1706), José (1709), Máximo (1714)__16 de junio de 1698__Baltazar y Catalina Muñóz de la Barba_Julián (1703), María Asención (1705) , Pedro (1701)__4 de Febrero de 1698__Luis y María López de Nava_José Manuel (1694), Margarita(1696), Blas (1709), María (1700), Ma. Teresa (1704), Mateana (1711)__5 de mayo de 1658__Pedro y Lorenza Ruiz Esparza_Bartolomé (1659), Beatriz (1668), Luis ( 1663), Sebastián(1678)__1662__Jerónimo y Margarita de Tiscareño_Beatríz (1677), Cristóbal (1667), Diego (1663), José (1672), Lorenza (1665), Luisa (1680) __Circa 1667__Francisco y Lorenza Ruiz Esparza_Cristóbal (1685), Francisca (1671), Francisco (1668), José (1675), Josefa (1680), María Gila (1669), Teresa (1691)__12 de Mayo de Circa 1687__Tomás y Juana Calvillo_Cristóbal (1694), Inés (1690), Juan (1687)__Circa 1694__Cristóbal y María de Tiscareño_Cristóbal (1695)__Circa 1658__Juan y María de Garibay_Francisco (1659), Lorenza (1671), Francisco (1694)__Circa 1683__Andrés y María López de Nava_Francisco (1684)__Circa 1693__Juan y María López de Nava (1694)___1 de Febrero 1699__José y María Lomelí_Sebastián (1716, en Lagos de Moreno ), Isidro Cayetano ( 1702)__18 de Junio de 1698__Juan y María de la Rosa Muñóz de la Barba___Circa 1674__Juan y Lorenza Tiscareño_Juan (1675)__Circa 1685__Nicolás y María Cruz López_Juana (1686)__Circa 1655__Diego y Luisa de los Reyes_Nicolás (1656), Antonia (?)__27 de Junio de 1697__Andrés y Juana Montañéz Díaz_Andrés (1733)__28 de Febrero de 1725__Miguel y Ana María Valadéz_Ana Gertrudis (1730), Antonia Michaela (1736), Luis Francisco (1734)__6 de Abril de 1711__Nicolás y Francisca Javiera gallardo_Ana María (1733), Isabel (1724), Jospe Antonio (1714), Guadalupe (1716)__Circa 1702__Marcelino y Juana Pichardo_Andrea ( 1703)__Circa 1721__Diego y Juana Prieto_Antonia Lugarda (1733), Fermín (1724), Jorge Alejandro (1739), Juana María (1730), Teresa Lugarda (1729 ), Tomás (1722)__1 de mayo de 1690__José Tomás y María de Contreras___Circa 1740__Francisco Javier y Juana Montañéz_Antonia Leandra (1741)__11 de Diciembre de 1707__Cristóbal y Josefa Macías Valadéz_José ( 1710), Luisa Francisca (1708)__17 de Junio de 1720__Cristóbal y María Muñóz de la Barba_José Francisco (1731), José Eusebio (1722), Lorenza (1724), Manuel Antonio (1725), Dolores ( 1727)Gertrudes (1737), Pedro José Francisco Javier (1737)__Circa 1725__Diego y Juana Ruiz de Esparza_Francisco Manuel Asencio ( 1726), Luis Alejandro (1737)__Circa 1719__Miguel e Isabel Lechuga_ Isabel Gertrudes (1723), José Miguel ( 1720), Juana Gertrudes Carmen (1727)__9 de Junio de 1704__Jerónimo y María Cuellar_Salvador Manuel (1706)__Circa 1699__José Antonio y María Gila de Luna_ José Cayetano (1700)__4 de mayo de 1750__José Antonio y Catarina Romo_Ignacia (1753)__Circa 1708__Bernabé y Gertrudes Franco_José Gregorio (1709) __Circa 1721__José y María Magdalena_Juan Alejandro ( 1722)__Circa 1733__Santiago y Margarita Mendoza_Juan Antonio (1734)__Circa 1700__Francisco y Micaela Villaseñor_Magdalena (1701)__12 de Mayo de 1748__Salvador Santiago y Margarita Ruvalcaba___12 de Junio de 1769__Antonio y Simona Anguiano___20 de Noviembre de 1758__Jorge y Gertrudes Díaz_Antonio Nabor (1768), Manuel Antonio (1769)__7 de septiembre de 1794__Claudio y Simona Ruiz Esparza_José Serapio (1796), Rafaela (1797), Luciana (1795), Juan de Dios (1799)__Circa 1778__Ramón y Antonia Ruiz esparza_Claudio Jesús (1779)__30 de Octubre de 1770__Fernando y Mariana Vega___25 de Mayo de 1760__José Francisco y Ana Isidra González Hermosillo_Josefa Encarnación (1761), Guadalupe (1762)__19 de Junio de 1763__Francisco y Felipe Alatorre Figueroa___Circa 1772__Andrés y Manuela Rosalía Escalera_Francisco (1773), José Alejandro (1781), José Máximo ( 1773)__6 de Noviembre de 1778__Francisco Javier y María Valenzuela___15 de Mayo de 1775__Isidro y Xaviera Villalobos___2 de Oct. De 1789__Juan José y Rosalía escalera_ José Antonio (1791 ) __19 de Octubre de 1793__José Antonio y Josefa Puga___Circa 1798__José Victoriano y Juana María Torres_José Domingo (1979), María Sebastiana (1791)__17 de Junio de 1781__ José Rufino y Guadalupe Esparza_José Faustino (1782)__Circa 1768__Lorenzo y Xaviera de León_Felipe Ignacio ( 1770), María Rita (1773), María Ignacia (1769), Josefa Dolores ( 1775) __Circa 1779__Manuel Antonio y María Antonia Ruiz Esparza_José Hermenegildo ( 1770), Teresa Merced (1774)__20 de Oct. 1775__José Ignacio e Ignacia Michaela Cervantes _María Rafaela de Jesús ( 1794)__Circa 1774__Justo y Francisca Cardiela Borja_José Julián ( 1779), Eugenia Prudencia ( 1775), Vicenta ( 1783), Josefa (1783) __7 de Diciembre de 1792__José Manuel y Dolores Tiscareño_José Luciano Ramón ( 1797) __27 de Junio de 1797__ José Manuel y Guadalupe Ruiz Esparza_José Magdaleno Trinidad (1799) __29 de Abril de 1789__José María y Dolores Díaz de León___Circa 1791__Pedro José María y Antonia Santoyo_José María ( 1799), Bernardina (1790), Blasa( 1792), José Irineo (1795) __Circa 1772__José y María López de Nava_José María ( 1775), Josefa Dolores ( 1775), Gertrudes (1773), Andrea(1754) __10 de Febrero de 1779__José Miguel y Michaela Ruiz Escobar_José Martín Rafael ( 1779), Guadalupe Marcela (1781)__12 de Junio de 1785__José Miguel y Rafaela Jiménez de Castro___11 de Mayo de 1772__Antonio y Jacinta López de nava_J. Miguel Estanislao ( 1773)__31 de Mayo de 1789__José Victoriano y Juana Torres _José Pablo ( 1789), María Urbana ( 1794)__28 de Octubre de 1778__José Rafael y Baltazara martínez___25 de Abril de 1796__José Rosalío y Dolores Escobar___20 de Octubre de 1778__José Rufino y Teresa Lúevano___15 de Febrero de 1797__José Tomás y Josefa González___5 de Mayo de 1782__José Trinidad y Guadalupe Díaz de León___14 de Junio de 1797__José Trinidad y Trinidad Esparza_____Luis y María Guadalupe_José Vidal ( 1779)__11 de Mayo de 1779__José Ignacio y Guadalupe Loera___12 de Junio de 1785__Miguel y Rafaela Ruiz de Castro___12 de Febrero de 1761__José y Rita Alonso de los Hinojos_Pablo Antonio ( ), Inés (1762), María Merced (1766), José Eduardo (1763), José Joaquín (1765), José Manuel (1770), Felipe Eduardo (1763)__10 de Junio de 1799__Pedro y Gartrudes Ramírez___30 de Noviembre de 1775__Pedro Antonio Miguel e Ignacia Díaz ___Circa 1769__Francisco y Josefa Martínez Sotomayor_Pedro José (1770), Juan José Nepomuceno (1773) __21 de Abril de 1771__Pedro José y María Guadalupe Muñóz___7 de Febrero de 1780__Pedro José Nolasco y Guadalupe Medina___7 de Abril de 1788__Rafael e Inocencia Velasco___7 de Junio de 1795__Rafael e Josefa Villaseñor___Circa 1760__Francisco Vicente y Magda Antonia González de Hermosillo_Vicente Ricardo ( 1761), María Albina ( 1764)__25 de Mayo de 1799__José María y Michaela Escalera_María Isidra__13 de Junio de 1752__Nicolás Antonio y Mariana de Alba_María Osoria (1754), María Rosa Ignacia (1771), Rosalía (1761), Trinidad (1758), Refugio Encarnación ( 1760), Dionicia ( 1756), Rafael Silvestre (1767), José Rafael Prudencio (1765) __Circa 1795__José maría e Hilaria de Mesas_Ma. Rosalía (1796), María Guadalupe (1793), Dionicia (1798)__Circa 1796__José Florentino y Manuela Romo_Sixta Dolores (1797)__Circa 1794__José Manuel y Dolores Díaz de Tiscareño_Teodora Dolores ( 1795), Dionicia (1798), Juana Antonia (1798)__24 de Abril de 1784 ?__Lorenzo y Antonia de León___Circa 1792__Andrés y Rafaela _Josefa Luz ( 1793)__Circa 1797__Guadalupe y Eduarda Esparza_Juliana (1798)__Circa 1794__Andrés y Antonia serrano _Fermina Claudia (1795)__Circa 1768__Javier y Petra González_María Gertrudes (1772), Vicente ( 1769)__Circa 1761__Antonio y Ana María Prieto_Guadalupe ( 1758)__Circa 1761__Juan Antonio y Antonia de Alba_María Guadalupe ( 1762), __Circa 1754__Antonio y Ana dela Cruz_Antonia (1755)__16 de Junio de 1779__Antonio y Antonia de Ruvalcaba___S/f__José Andrés y Antonia Luévano___Circa 1756__José Elías y Gertrudes Prieto_ Guadalupe Leonor ( 1757)__Circa 1783__Vicente y Josefa Pedrajo_Dolores Pobosa (1784)__Circa 1798__José y Simona de Esparza_Juan de Dios (1799)__3 de Junio de 1779__José Romo Tavarez y Josefa Buena___5 de Abril de 1774__Manuel Rafael y María Alonso de los Hinojos___4 de mayo de 1767__Manuel y Francisca Castoreña___Circa 1798__Juan Antonio y María Romo_Agapita Loreto (1799)__Circa 1757__José y Juana López_Josefa Brígida (1758)____José Antonio y Josefa de León_____José Antonio y Teresa Ramírez_____José Antonio y María Inés Martín___

Hola to all my Rancho's Primos
I am trying to get as much information about publishing one line of my family,
The SAAVEDRA/BALTAZAR line of Durango, Chihuahua & Texas. My question to the group is where do I start, what should I include. Any tips from our group would be welcomed! Sources, examples, sites or any personal experiences -seran bien recibidas. I read in a book that "Ir's not history until it's written" so I do want to write and print & share my work with my familia.
Yolanda Medina Perez
El Paso, Texas

Necesito ayuda para encontrar información de algunos ancestros míos en Nochistlán, Zacatecas. Entre ellos se encuentran Juan Manuel de la Cámara y Menoyo casado con María Teresa de Castañedo Cevallos; también busco información sobre Santiago Gallegos casado con María Magdalena López; así como de Cayetano Corona y Juana Teresa Caxigales.

Just a heads up, the film jumps back and forth between dates as it appears to
be the remnants of several books... however, within each remnant, the
marriages are in order. I am about a third of the way through and have gone
through three remnants... one beginning in 1629 and ending around 1642 and
then next beginning in 1677 and ending around 1685. The third begins in 1657
and ends ???

=====================
From: scooterpie1968
Date: 2006/07/18 Tue PM 07:36:09 CDT
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bergara Lines

Thanks Arturo...please don't go to any trouble! I'm going to order the films
to research, as well. Like I said, my earliest Bergara (Francisco Salvador)
appears in 1774 when he married Salvadora Godoy. They were married in
Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman and I'm wondering if there is a connection to
the Bergara messages you're posting.....we'll see!

Peggy Delgado

http://www.kindredtrails.com/mexico.html

Looking for Leonarda Lujan born in 1800's in Sain del Alto Zacatecas. Any Lujans out there in rancho land? She only had one son which was my grandfather Jose. She died when he was a young man and he took care of her. My grandfather said she died of an illness called "flores blancas". Sometimes I wonder what it was like being a single unwed mother in the 1800's Mexico. What I find intriguing is how Jose was accepted by the Martinez Family. His Father Eduardo Martinez was married and his wife and kids treated my grandfather very well. My grandfather Jose Lujan married as a young man dont know his first wife's name she died giving birth and so did the child. Later he married my grandmother Maria Mendoza Castaneda. My grandmother Maria rememberd attending his wedding to his first wife when she was a young girl. She said she and her friends giggled as the young couple kissed. Leonarda Lujan had other sisters I would like to know who they were. If anyone has any info or where I
can search please let me know. I usually go by Lupe. I noticed there is another Maria so if you refer to me can you put Lupe1. Thank you

Sorry folks I've been sending out private emails to various ones trying
to get the Digest people to change the subject heading from Digest to
properly reflect the content of the email and here I've done the same
thing.

many apologies

joseph